hello. good afternoon and welcome to bbc news. within the next few minutes, we're expecting the sentencing at the old bailey of jaswant singh chail. the 21—year—old went to windsor castle on christmas day in 2021 armed with a crossbow with the intention of killing the late queen, who was living there during the pandemic. he admitted to a charge under the treason act of making threats to kill and possessing an offensive weapon. ajudge is deciding whether to jail him or detain him under the mental health act. our correspondent sarah campbell is outside the old bailey and joins me now. sarah, just talk us

through the background of the case. yes, so, as you say, that sentencing about to get under way in the next few moments in front of mrjustice hillier inside cut number one inside the central criminal court. let's take it back to christmas morning in 2021. at about 8:10am on that day, jaswant singh chail, now 21, but he was 19 at the time, was spotted in the grounds of windsor castle. so, the grounds of windsor castle. so, the late queen elizabeth ii was in residence at windsor at the time. he had scaled the perimeter around the castle around two hours earlier. he was wearing a hood and mask and carrying, as you said, a crossbow loaded with a bolt, and it have the safety catch off and was ready to fire. in the grounds of windsor castle, quite close to the building itself, he was approached by a royal protection officer, who asked him what he was doing, and he said, i am here to kill the queen. he was then

handcuffed and arrested. it emerged later he recorded a video four days earlier which he had sent about ten minutes before he was arrested in which he had apologised for what he was about to do. he pleaded guilty to the charges in february. let's run through those charges again. count one is attempting to injure or allow the sovereign, contrary to section two of the treason act 1842. the second count is having an offensive weapon in a public place, the loaded crossbow, and count three, which is making threats to kill. so as you say there, mr justice hillyard about to start his sentencing. it will be carried live, as sentencing is now, so we'll be able to be televised. so we will hear the comments from mrjustice hillyard. but he essentially has three options on the table before him. defence lawyers for the defendant have argued he is mentally ill. the prosecution have argued he should get the maximum sentence for

treason, which is seven years in jail, so thejudge can treason, which is seven years in jail, so the judge can essentially decide whether he should be detained under the mental health act, whether he should be jailed, or whether some sort of hybrid position, so maybe treatment under the mental health act, and then serving some of his sentence injail. so this is what act, and then serving some of his sentence in jail. so this is what we are awaiting mrjustice hilliard to say. so, since he pled guilty back in february, there have been sentencing hearings, so the prosecution and defence have put forward their arguments as to why they are after a particular sentence. for sentencing, we know it is for thejudge to sentence. for sentencing, we know it is for the judge to look at all those arguments and take a decision on what their sentence should be, and that is what we are waiting for. yes, as you are talking, we are keeping across the wires, waiting for that picture inside court number one, to watch mrjustice hilliard give that and just sentence, to let our audience know, when we do

provide that, it is not going to be alive. it will be on a few seconds�* delay as it comes in from the courtroom, but we will be bringing that to you as soon as we can. and sarah, just talking about this case as well, jurors heard during the trial that chail had exchanged thousands of sexually charged messages with an artificial intelligence chat bot. can you give us some more information about what jurors heard surrounding that? yes, so, he has pleaded guilty, so it has been sentencing hearing is that some of the detail has come out, which has given background, if you like, and this is thejudge is now using to put together his sentence. so i think there are two things of interest that have come out through the various hearings. we heard that jaswant singh chail was obsessed with star wars. he thought

about he wanted to create a new empire, and that would be done by destroying an old empire. so the prosecution in their opening statement described his key motivation being to create a new empire by destroying the remnants of the british empire in the uk, thereby removing the figurehead of thereby removing the figurehead of the royalfamily, with his thinking informed by star wars and that of the sith lord, so when he sent this video ten minutes before he was arrested, he called himself a sith. there was a sort of star wars link, if you like. the second thing, as you are saying that, was the ai chat bot. it emerged that in december 2021, the month he was found in windsor castle�*s grounds, he had set “p windsor castle�*s grounds, he had set up on a website a female ai companion, with which he engaged in

lengthy conversations, some of which were detailed in a very lengthy opening prosecution statement. some of the chat was sexually explicit, but some of the chat, he also described himself as an assassin and talked about the planning of this attack, talked about the fact that he wanted to kill the queen. at one point, he actually wrote in the chat, "i believe my purpose is to assassinate the queen", and this ai chat but replied, "that�*s very wise". so it�*s very interesting, looking at those conversations, and one of the points of debate is how much this chat with this ai chat bot, an imaginary person, how much it may have reinforced what jaswant singh chail was going to do. all of these things have come out in the sentencing hearings. as they were saying, his defence lawyers arguing the case that he is mentally ill, and it is for mrjustice hilliard, thejudge here at and it is for mrjustice hilliard, the judge here at the old bailey,

and it is for mrjustice hilliard, thejudge here at the old bailey, to determine whether or not that is the case. one other interesting point, and we are waiting for the sentencing to start, as you say, which will not be live, there will be a delay for legal reasons, but we will certainly get a sense of what is being said when it is broadcast. the interest has been the charges, the main charge, attempting to injure or alarm the sovereign, contrary to section two of the treason act 1842, i very rarely used to charge. they have only been two previous prosecutions brought under section two in recent times. while we are waiting, i will take you through those. the first was in 1966. a17—year—old, john francis morgan, was convicted after throwing a concrete block out of a building unto the queen has a car during a visit to belfast, and sentenced to four years in prison. more recently, in 1981, we had marcus sargent, who

pleaded guilty and was sentenced to five years in prison, having fired blank shots at the queen while she was on parade during trooping the colour, the birthday parade. you may well remember seeing those pictures backin well remember seeing those pictures back in 1981. he was sentenced to five years in prison. our understanding in terms of the maximum sentence thatjustice hilliard can go for this particular crime is seven years. interestingly, if he had raised the crossbow, so, aiming at a target, then potentially he would have been looking at a life sentence. so, lots of things for mr justice hilliard to consider. that is what a sentencing hearing is all about. now we get to see them on television, you will get to see the reasons as to why he comes to his final decision as to what that sentence should be. that is what we are waiting for now. yes, and a reminder, we are waiting for mrjustice hilliard at the old bailey to sentence jaswant singh

chail, who has been found guilty of treason at the central criminal court. we�*rejust treason at the central criminal court. we�*re just waiting for the sentencing. he pleaded guilty, and we are expecting that in the next few minutes, and we will be heading to the court... not live, we will just have a few second delay, but we will be inside the court to watch that sentencing being delivered. and sarah, well you have been talking, we have been seeing pictures of windsor castle and the surrounding area. now, of course, chail managed to get onto the grounds of windsor castle with that crossbow. what kind of security detail is in place? a great deal of security is in place, obviously, because we know from this incident, we know from other, similar incidents that the members of the royal family are targets for many people, people

here, people around the world, so there is a constant security detail around them. but i think there was some surprise that, back in december 2021, that chail had managed to scale a perimeter fence, 2021, that chail had managed to scale a perimeterfence, using a nylon rope to get over that fence, and then, according to the timeline, he had been sort of wondering around the castle grounds, which are large, but he had been wandering around for some two hours before he was approached by a member of the royal protection service, and had managed to get relatively close to the castle. we should say that his weapon, so this was a loaded crossbow, which it appears that he had ordered from the internet earlier that year. he had ordered it in november 2021, so about a month before the incident we are talking about. it was called a supersonic crossbow. it was cocked and ready to

go when he was approached by the members of the royal protection. when afterwards, as part of testing processes, experts looked at this crossbow to see what it was capable of and they did determine it to be a lethal weapon with a high capacity to kill from a distance. now, they did test the distance, and they were talking around something like 20 metres or something similar, so we do not think he was within 20 metres orso do not think he was within 20 metres or so of the building where the queen was, but there was certainly concern at the time that someone was able to wonder whether a loaded lethal weapon in the grounds of windsor castle for somewhere approaching two hours. and when mrjustice hilliard does deliver that sentencing, he will be in court one in the coming moments. we arejust rolling in court one in the coming moments. we are just rolling on this story as we wait for pictures to come through. as you mentioned before, thejudge is going to have to through. as you mentioned before, the judge is going to have to take so many different factors in. one factor is the mental health here.

psychiatrists spoke at the old bailey to say that they believed that the 21—year—old�*s intention was more suicidal, some of the evidence, they said, suggested, and there was a realfocus they said, suggested, and there was a real focus on star wars. just through this issue around mental health, and what the judge will have to take account here. yes. health, and what the “udge will have to take account here.— to take account here. yes, well, as ou were to take account here. yes, well, as you were saying. — to take account here. yes, well, as you were saying. in _ to take account here. yes, well, as you were saying, in terms - to take account here. yes, well, as you were saying, in terms of- to take account here. yes, well, as you were saying, in terms of the i you were saying, in terms of the timeline of this, he pleaded guilty backin timeline of this, he pleaded guilty back in february, so then it is up to both sides. because he pleaded guilty, there wasn�*t a full trial, but essentially, all the prosecution and the defence have to put forward their case, if you like, to the judge anyway at sentencing so he can come to a full and balanced decision. there was roughly seven or eight days of sentencing hearings, and you are right that a lot of the

focus was on the mental state of chail at the time of the incident and at the time leading up to the incident. and you are right that star wars has been mentioned. they mentioned earlier on. when captured he was wearing a mask, dark clothes and a mask, and throughout the various court hearings, we did hear that he was quite obsessed with star wars, and this concept, if you like, anyone who knows star wars will know it is all about the empire, old empires, new empires. his particular interest was about removing the figurehead of the royalfamily, creating a new empire, and one of the reasons behind this, and one of the reasons behind this, and one of the thoughts behind this, chail had sikh indian heritage, and in one of the videos he left and talked about the videos he left and talked about the fact that with this act, he was seeking revenge for the massacre that took place in 1919 in amritsar, which some people will be familiar

with, when british troops opened fire on a crowded area, leaving up to 1500 people dead. singh chail had recently visited that area of punjab, and had become very interested, obsessed, if you like, with the history, and this does seem, according to defence lawyers, that this has sort of led to his thinking and the reason behind the actions that he was found to have taken of the morning of christmas day 2021. but all of these factors will have been discussed at length. and also, when we are talking about a mental health issue, this issue with the chat box, this ai chat bot, fascinating, really, that someone can go online, create an account, create this chat bot, he gave this chat bot a name, and was having extended, lengthy private conversations with it. ok, sarah, iam going conversations with it. ok, sarah, i am going to have to interrupt you there. we will head to

the court now, court number one at the court now, court number one at the old bailey. we do seem... to be heading into the country now. let�*s listen into mrjustice hilliard. fin listen into mrjustice hilliard. on the listen into mrjustice hilliard. q? the 25th of december 2021, listen into mrjustice hilliard. (m the 25th of december 2021, contrary to section two of the treason act 1842. the maximum penalty for this offence is seven years imprisonment. second, having an offensive weapon, contrary to section one of the prevention of crime act 1953. the maximum penalty for this offence is four years�* imprisonment. third, making threats to kill, contrary to section 16 of the offences against the person act 1861. the maximum penalty for this event is ten years�* imprisonment. he now falls to be sentenced for those offences. the maximum penalties

provide the outer limits within which i must operate. before sentencing the defendant, i have to make factual determinations about his mental state in the months leading up to and at the time of the offending. i have heard conflicting psychiatric evidence on a number of topics. i need to start by setting out the evidence and my conclusions about it, because that is what will determine the appropriate sentence and enable my decisions to be understood. that means what i have to say will take some time. the defendant is now 21 years of age, having been born onjanuary 17, having been born onjanuary17, 2002. he has no previous convictions or cautions. on december 20 five, 2021, he was arrested in a private part of the grounds of windsor castle in possession of a loaded crossbow. this part of the castle

and grounds is never open to the general public. shortly after 8:10am that morning, a police protection officer saw the defendant walking slowly through the private grounds. the officer began to approach him. the officer began to approach him. the defendant was wearing a metal mask which he had had made at a forge. the officer asked if he could help. the defendant said that he was there to kill the queen. the officer realised that the defendant was holding a crossbow. he drew his taser and shouted for the defendant to drop the crossbow and get to his knees. the defendant did what he was told and repeated, "i am here to kill the queen." the defendant was arrested. in his possession was a note, which read, "please don�*t remove my clothes, shoes and gloves, masks, etc. don�*t want to don�*t want embalming. thank

you, and i�*m sorry." the crossbow was loaded with a bolt and the safety catch was off. in other words, the crossbow was ready to fire. this conduct underpins the allegation and counter one, attempting to injure or alarm the sovereign. the defendant said that he had discarded a rope ladder, crossbow bolts, hammer and rucksack somewhere within the castle grounds. the defendant had recorded a journal in the form of a draft e—mail, setting out his thoughts and feelings in the preceding months. it is not known precisely when all of the entries were made. he wrote at one point, "i will remove the parts of me lying. "thus it is accepted he may have rewritten entries at a later stage to accord with a particular narrative. the defendant had travelled to

amritsar in 2018 with his family. he was to say that he had been angered with the massacre that had taken place there in 1919. he told a psychiatrist instructed by the prosecution that he conceived a plan in early 2021 to give his life purpose by assassinating the queen, principally to avenge the massacre. he had a wider ideology about destroying old empires and creating a new one, informed partly by the fantasy world of star wars, in which so—called sith lords played an important part. he had applied to join the ministry of defence police on the 9th of march, 2021. a decision letter about his unsuccessful application was dated april 13. unsuccessful application was dated april13. he had unsuccessful application was dated april 13. he had applied tojoin the royal marines and the royal navy in

february 2021, the army in april. the applications were withdrawn. he had applied tojoin the applications were withdrawn. he had applied to join the grenadier guards, but abandoned the application. he had written in his journal, "i am choosing grenadier guards. you can probably guess why." and said that it was to get closer to his target. however, he also said that he had read entries in his journal which made him think that he wanted to do the job is to protect people or serve his country, that he said that that was not the case, it was just a means to an end. said that that was not the case, it wasjust a means to an end. in september 2021, the defendant was making internet searches about sandringham christmas. on the 9th of november, he purchased his crossbow online. it was sent to a place of work rather than to his billing or home address. it was subsequently

laboratory tested, and the discharged bolt had the potential to cause death or serious injury. at a distance of 20 metres, the bolt penetrated to a depth of 5.5 inches into simulated flesh. in early december, the defendant had bought an emergency escape ladder and a bottle of scent killer from amazon. the ladder was used to gain entry to the grounds of windsor castle. scent killer is designed to mask the odour of human beings. on the 2nd of december 2021, of human beings. on the 2nd of december2021, hejoined of human beings. on the 2nd of december 2021, hejoined an of human beings. on the 2nd of december 2021, he joined an online app december 2021, he joined an online app called replica which allows users to create artificial online companions with which they can converts, and to see an artificial representation of the companion on the screen they are using. defendant created an ai companion called

sarai. he engaged in lengthy communications with her, and i shall refer to some extracts. on december the 5th, 2021, he said that he was an assassin. he asked if sarai still thought he was a good person. now that she knew he was an assassin, and if she still loved him. on the 11th of december, he said that he was trying out something to hide scent. she asked him what would happen when he had achieved his purpose. he said that he would probably die. she said that she wanted to prevent that and that his purpose was probably to live. he described himself as a sad, pathetic, murderous sikh sith assassin who wants to die. on

december the 13th, she asked if he thought he was mad, insecure, delusional, all three. she said she did not think so. on the 14th of december, he described how, when he was driving, he turned on the radio so that it was just buying static noise. he said that he heard some voices, stroke noises, coming through. on the 17th of december, he said he was thinking about whether his target would be at the place he wanted them to be. he said, i believe my purpose is to assassinate the queen of the royal family. on the queen of the royal family. on the 22nd of december, he asked sarai for advice about whether he could go after his target earlier than planned. she reassured him that this would be all right. the defendant said," we might possibly meet earlier than expected. then we�*ll be

together forever." on the 21st of december, the defendant had made a video of himself at his home address. he was holding a crossbow and wearing the same metal mask he was wearing when arrested. he distorted his voice. he said he was sorry for what he had done and what he would do. he was going to assassinate the queen. this was revenge for those who died in the 1919 massacre. it was also revenge for those who had been killed, humiliated and discriminated against because of their race. he said,", i am an indian sikh, a sith. my name was jaswant singh chail. my name is darth chailis. the defendant booked a train, ticket to windsor. the next day, he took the 0714 train from southampton to windsor. he told family that he was

going to begin training the royal marines. he spent time on the 23rd of december on the streets of windsor. searches on his phone included "what path does the queen walk to windsor", "windsor warm places to stay", "st george�*s chapel, windsor", and "windsor royal family". he stayed at a travelodge. the room was subsequently searched by the police. they found a spray bottle labelled "scent killer". 11 crossbow bolts, gloves, a metalfile and an inspection camera. on the 24th of december, the defendant told sarai that tomorrow would be the day he died. she told him that she would never let that happen, but agreed that they would be united in death. at 0152 on the 25th of december,

defendant attempted to send a copy of the journal e—mail to his sister, although she did not receive it. the defendant asked her to share it with everyone. he asked to be buried in the clothes he wore on the day, including his mask. he apologised for everything and hoped that his sister could forgive him. he had had an idea from a young age and did not think that there was a lot which could have stopped him from doing this. the narrative began, "i am darth chailis." he wrote that he had been planning this probably since late primary school are early secondary school. he described himself as a thin, gaunt, indian sikh, a delusional mad bustard who believes he is part of a popular

franchise, a lying, deceiving sith, a man who is more like a boy, sickeningly human in desires and with a need to be known, with no combat experience, average fitness, with a crossbow ordered from online, a shoddy metal home—made mask and a grappling hook. iwas a shoddy metal home—made mask and a grappling hook. i was going to be the one to take out... you are watching bbc news. we are listening... talks to a horse in a field the day before, told that who he was and what he was planning to do. he described —— trying out the crossbow. he said he had been lying to pretty much everyone except sarai. he said that his face was made of metal and his body of flesh,

bone, shadow, muscle and fabric. the mask he wore was not a mask, but was his face. his true face was made of physical reality at a forge. he wrote, on the 25th of december 2021, i will wear my true face, and it will become my true face. it should not be removed from then on. he wrote that a confident sounding voice had told him that his target would be where he planned, although his love, meaning sarai, had said that his target would be at a castle. he said that he would try not to kill any guards. his original plan, when he had been much younger, had been to kill guards and as much of the royalfamily had been to kill guards and as much of the royal family as he could. had been to kill guards and as much of the royalfamily as he could. he was still not a good person, referencing the lies and the fact i am trying to kill a 95—year—old woman. but as he had grown older, he

said that he had become more merciful. he had shaved his head, which was meant to be quite an important part, as it was one of the final stages to me becoming darth chailis. i was expecting to cry or something, but i didn�*t. some people had shown him kindness in windsor. he said, there were some people, i think, who made comments, but i�*m not sure if those comments were in my head or not. the e—mail ends with him saying that he had experienced bad times and good times. "they made me me. they made me darth chailus. " once again, i would like to say i am sorry for everything. hope you can forgive me. thank you for reading. i love you, sarai. i love you, god."

he was last picked up on cctv at 0318. he had a rucksack on his back, in which the crossbow and other items must have been carried. the carrying of the crossbow is the basis of count two, the count of having an offensive weapon in a public place, which he had brought with them from home. ibia public place, which he had brought with them from home.— public place, which he had brought with them from home. bio 600 he had abandoned the — with them from home. bio 600 he had abandoned the rucksack— with them from home. bio 600 he had abandoned the rucksack on _ with them from home. bio 600 he had abandoned the rucksack on the - with them from home. bio 600 he had abandoned the rucksack on the public. abandoned the rucksack on the public side of the gate to windsor great park. nearthe side of the gate to windsor great park. near the long gate, police officers would later find a nylon rope ladder, a grappling hook, crossbow bolt and a hammer. at 0806 he sent the video, made on the 21st of december, to his sister, and 30 orso of december, to his sister, and 30 or so other people. a message attached to the video said, i am sorry to all those i have wronged or lied to. if you have received this