what looks like a massive invasion force is being prepared. my guest is danny danon, an mp in the ruling likud party. to israelis, to palestinians, to the outside world, this feels like a moment of maximum danger. where will it end? danny danon in tel aviv, welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me, stephen. we are having this conversation some two—and—a—half days after hamas launched that unprecedented, brutal assault on israel.

you've had a little bit of time to reflect. i just wonder how you are feeling and how you would characterise the mood of israel right now. stephen, we are in pain. we are in deep pain when we are actually still counting the number of casualties. we are not even burying the dead yet. the numbers are beyond imagination. we are talking about almost 800 people who were killed, massacred. the barbaric terrorists went into the villages, communities, and during a morning of a quiet holiday, they committed a horrible massacre. and today, we actually seeing those pictures and we are in deep pain. at the same time, we are regrouping. we realise that we have no other choice but to defend ourselves and we are getting ready, getting ready to fight back, to stand up strong, to fight back evil. that's exactly what will happen in the next few days.

we will continue to support the families. until today, we don't know the exact number of people who were kidnapped into gaza. and i'm not talking about soldiers, i'm talking about kids, toddlers, three years old. i'm talking about families that were dragged bodily from their homes into gaza, including an elderly woman at the age of 86, a holocaust survivor. so when we see those pictures, we all feel the pain, but we also realise that this unprovoked attack put us in a position where we have no alternatives. we have to fight back, we have to fight evil and we are determined to prevail, we are determined to win. you've raised lots of different issues there, which i want to get into, but right now, ijust want to get inside your thoughts as a senior israeli politician who sits on the foreign affairs and defense committee of your parliament, the knesset. here's something that a spokesperson for the israeli defense forces said

not very long ago. he said, "this is our 9/11," then he said, "they got us. "they surprised us." danny danon, how could that happen? first, i have to agree with that. you know, we actually marked 50 years�* anniversary for the yom kippur war, where we were caught by surprise by militaries, egyptian and syrian militaries, and, yes, we were caught by surprise by the hamas terrorist organisation. that was unfortunate and we paid a heavy price, and we have to learn the lesson for the future, but today, i spoke in the foreign affairs and defense committee and i told my colleagues, "now we don't have the luxury of blaming anyone. "we have to fight for our lives, we have to be united," and that's exactly what's happening today. you see the israeli society coming together. we put our differences aside. no politics now on the table and we are committed to fight back. what i'm getting at isn't really about politics.

i guess it's about strategic thinking and strategic vision. in the words of anshel pfeffer — who i'm sure you read his work, he's a military commentator, he writes for various publications, including haaretz in israel — he said there were three failed concepts at work here. one, that hamas did not want and would not risk another war with israel. secondly, the gaza security apparatus that israel has created, including electronic surveillance, human intelligence, a military fence around gaza, that gave you a level of security comfort that allowed you to believe in security. and thirdly, the palestinian conflict, but particularly the gaza situation, had become something of a sideshow, that it was no longer a focus for the israeli military because israel felt that, in essence, it had kept hamas in a place it could keep them long—term. the strategic vision failed, didn't it? well, i agree only with one

part, the issue about the security issues, and i think we have to analyse what happened, why we allowed them to get so close to the fence during the riots they had every once in a while, but i don't think we were surprised by the intentions of hamas. hamas is a terrorist organisation. that's their business, that's that what they do for life, is to create chaos and to kill innocent people. it's exactly like isis, like al-qaeda. you don't look for logic with a terrorist organisation, so i'm not surprised about their intentions — i'm surprised about the way they were able to execute their intentions. and look what happened — when i gave an interview to you a few years ago, i told you that if they will actually cross the border, who knows what will happen to israelis in the communities? and people say, "well, you are threatening us," and look what happened — while they crossed the border, they got into the homes of innocent families and they butchered them, you know. that's what we are dealing with. so, yes, i think we were caught

by surprise and we have to learn the lessons for the future, but words have to teach them a lesson and that's exactly what we will do in the next few days. i hope this time, it will not be a limited operation. i hope this time we will go all the way with the goal to eradicate hamas, to create new reality not only for us, but also for the palestinian people who live under the hamas regime that takes the money of the donations that they get every year, billions of dollars, and invest it in tunnels, in ammunition, not in schools and hospitals. let's just be clear about what you think the israeli strategic goal is. as these 300,000 troops are mobilised, equipment is being sent to the south, the bombardment of gaza has already begun, costing many, many hundreds of lives, what is the strategic goal here? well, i think that when you deal with evil, you have to eradicate evil. that's what the us did

when they fought against isis. that's what we have to do this time. and let's put the number in perspective. you know, we talk about 1,000 israelis that were massacred. imagine that in the uk — one morning, you wake up and 6,000 or 7,000 citizens of the uk will be massacred by terrorists. the reaction would be different. so i think this time, we should not do something which is like other cycles that we had in the past. we have to go all the way, and when i say all the way, i think we have to eradicate hamas. we have to speak about a new regime in gaza, we have to involve the egyptians and other players in the region, but i think it will be good for the people of gaza. they will be the one who will actually enjoy the fact that they can live not under the rule of hamas, but under a government that takes care of the people and not take care of building tunnels and training the troops against israel. it is difficult to imagine that

a palestinian living in gaza right now will be taking advice on how they should feel from an israeli, given that we know the death toll from the bombardment of gaza by your forces so far has killed, we believe, according to the palestinians, more than 500 people, including dozens of children. do you believe in collective punishment, danny danon? cos benjamin netanyahu called gaza "that wicked city". he talked about reducing it to a "city of ruins," implying that wherever hamas was believed to have been hiding would be reduced to rubble. that will involve collective punishment. is that something you absolutely feel is right? we do not support collective punishment, but let me take the opportunity and speak to the people of gaza. and i tell them today very directly, move out from your homes, which are next to hamas headquarters. don't stay around those militants

because we are coming in. we are going to hunt them down and we are not aiming to hurt any civilians. unlike hamas, we try to minimise the casualties of civilians. but if you will stay there next to the hamas headquarters, unfortunately, you will have civilians that will be hurt. that is not our goal. we focus on the hamas militants, but unfortunately, we know that those cowards are hiding behind civilians, they are using them as human shields. and we would encourage, and that's what we are doing now, we're sending messages to major cities in gaza, telling people, "move out, get out from this area "because it will not be safe for you to be here." our goal is not to hurt the population of gaza, but we are determined to go after hamas. there are 2.3 million palestinians living in a tiny strip of land, which is roughly 140 square kilometres. the borders are closed,

ringed by the israeli military. they cannot go anywhere. when you say they need to leave, where exactly do you propose they should go? first of all, let me correct you, stephen. we have to be accurate. we are not keeping the siege over gaza. i want to remind you and the audience, there is a huge border between gaza and egypt. we do not control, for the last 18 years, the border between gaza and egypt, so when you speak about a siege, you should speak with the egyptians about it and not with us, but we call the palestinians who live in gaza today to move from certain parts of gaza to another area. and i don't think you will find any other military that will do that, but that's actually what's happening today, we're sending text messages and we send information to those neighbourhoods, telling them that we know about the location of the hamas headquarters in those neighbourhoods and we will attack those headquarters. so we hope that those people

will listen to our warnings, that they will move out from those areas to different locations in gaza, because if they will not do it, as you said, there will be casualties. yeah. when i talk of siege, i'm quoting, actually, from your defence minister, yoav gallant, who talked of a now complete siege on gaza. to quote him, "there is now no electricity, "no food, no water. "there is no fuel." i don't know if he is aware, but i guess you may well be aware as a former israeli ambassador, of the geneva conventions, article 5a of which says that starvation of civilians as a method of warfare is prohibited. does israel care about the geneva conventions in the coming days and weeks? we care about our wellbeing and about being alive, and we are fighting for our life. we are fighting for the more than 100 people who were kidnapped from their homes saturday morning. that's what we care about. that's our priority.

but i go back and tell you the fact — if you want to provide water to gaza or food to gaza, you have a border with egypt. they can transfer whatever they want into gaza. we are not blocking anything coming from egypt. but if in the past we took care of humanitarian issues in gaza, we are saying it very clearly, now we are taking care of the humanitarian issues of israelis who were kidnapped into gaza, of the 1,000 people who lost their lives because of the barbaric attack of hamas. so we have to prioritise our goals. but i keep saying it — gaza is not under siege. the border with egypt, you can provide water, fuel, medicines. whatever you want to support gaza, you can do it through egypt. many hundreds of palestinians are already dead as a result of israel's military response. is there any level of civilian casualties in gaza over

the coming hours, days and weeks that israel would regard as unacceptably high that might lead to a rethink about what you say must be a campaign to entirely eliminate hamas? so i think our focus should be on the level of hamas militants that will be targeted. that's what we care about. that's why we are sending our boys into gaza, in order to eliminate those terrorists who invaded israel without any provocation. so that's what we are focusing at. at the same time, we will try to minimise the civilian casualties. i keep saying it — we don't want to see casualties in gaza. you know, hamas, they want to see those pictures because they understand it will support their cause. we try to minimise civilian casualties. we will work very hard to do it. we cannot guarantee 100% safety for the people in gaza who will be around hamas militants, and that's why i keep saying, "move out, move

out from those neighbourhoods." because we are coming to hunt down hamas and we will do whatever is necessary from the air, from the sea, from the land. we will get to those people and we will kill them. in 2005, a political hero of yours, revered in the likud party, ariel sharon, he took the decision to pull all israeli forces and, of course, the remaining israeli jewish settlements out of gaza. he said being in gaza is counterproductive for the security of the israeli nation. you're going to reoccupy gaza, by the sound of it, aren't you? and when you get in there, it will be long term. absolutely not. by the way, i was very close to prime minister sharon, and i beg to disagree with him about the disengagement, because i told him it will be a mistake. he believed or hoped that gaza will become singapore

and that the palestinians will develop trade and commercial projects. and look what happened — hamas took over. it became a hub for terrorists, unfortunately. but our goal now is not to take over gaza and to stay there. we have no intention to occupy gaza or to govern gaza. that is not our goal. our goal is to go and find those terrorists who committed those horrible crimes, kill them, and we don't intend to stay in gaza. let me ask you about the hostages. you mentioned them early in our conversation. the truth is that we believe more than 100 israelis — civilians and military — are being held by hamas, and a few being held by islamichhad as well. it massively complicates your military response, doesn't it? we've had some reports already — hamas claiming that four hostages were killed as a result of an israeli strike. how is it going to affect the way israel conducts its military operation?

you know, we will have to fight hamas and, at the same time, we're going to put pressure to release our families that were abducted. and that is a war crime, you know, to go... they didn't attack military bases. they attacked communities and they kidnapped civilians. that is a war crime. so we will put pressure on hamas to release our boys and girls, but at the same time, we will continue to fight with them. they should not expect that we will hold back... if i may... ..because of the kidnapping. if i may interrupt, danny. we will fight back. danny danon, you sit on the intelligence subcommittee in the knesset. are you aware of any negotiations that have already begun to win the release, at least of the women and children? there are some media reports suggesting that through qatar, some sort of negotiations, dialogue has already begun. well, i'm not aware of the negotiations, but i can tell you that there are a few international players that always try to break a deal. you mentioned qatar.

also the egyptians. we are not at this stage now. as i mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, stephen, we are still in the process of evaluating the number of people who were killed and massacred to announce to the families. so we are not in any negotiations now. 0ne thought about politics — benjamin netanyahu has been a beleaguered prime minister for a long time, partly because of national outcry, hundreds of thousands taking to the streets against his judicial reforms. there is some talk now in israel of the need, the urgent necessity for a national unity government. benny gantz�*s national unity party has said he would be prepared to join a national unity government, but only if the extreme far—right members of the current coalition — thinking of mr ben—gvir and mr smotrich — are thrown out of the cabinet.

you're a loyal likud member. do you want to see a national unity government? are you prepared to see those far right—wing elements jettisoned? well, i think in general today, we need a national unity government. i think it is the right decision and i call my colleagues from the opposition to put politics aside and to join the government. in 1967, menachem beginjoined a left—wing government for a limited period of time of the six—day war, and i think we should do the same now. i don't think we should start to negotiate about the conditions and who will be in that government, but i think those people that you mentioned can add to the efforts that we are going to conduct in the next few weeks, and i think it will be the right decision to have a unity government today. let me ask you this — it's a difficult question, i understand, because of the trauma, the collective grief, shock and anger that israelis are feeling right now, given what has happened to your country in the last 72 hours.

nonetheless, it's a question i'm going to ask. are you able to understand the palestinian perspective that is coming, for example, from members of the palestinian authority who say, "we told israel that this sort of thing "might happen because they are a consequence of israeli government policy. . . " i'm quoting now the pa prime minister, mohammad shtayyeh — "..the result of government policy in israel, which "practises the worst forms of aggression and murder, "confiscation of palestinian lands, attacks on holy sites," and what they call, in the pa, "settler terrorism." do you have any understanding of the palestinian perspective here, the background to the tragedy that has hit israel? that's hypocrisy, because mr shtayyeh himself knows that those militants of hamas would have killed him when they will get

the chance to do it. those barbaric who entered israel, they don't seek any kind of peace with israel. they want to see death and destruction. they live from the death and destruction. so i don't think you can find any excuse for that brutal behaviour of those animals. and i repeat it, stephen, those are animals. 0nly animals will take teenagers, will rape them and drag them into gaza. we are dealing with barbaric animals, and i think no—one should even try to look for any reasoning to explain and to justify such behaviour. and let me remind also mr shtayyeh from the palestinian authority what happened to the palestinian authority executives when they were in gaza. hamas took them and threw them from the rooftops of gaza to the streets and hang them in the middle of the street. so no—one can explain such barbaric behaviour. pictures that we saw coming from isis, from al-qaeda, we are now seeing coming from hamas. the only reaction to such

behaviour is confront it and defeat them. you're a diplomat, former ambassador in washington. you're a former deputy defence minister. you think about israel's place in the region, the geopolitics of all of this. benjamin netanyahu said just a few hours ago, "israel's response will change the middle east." and the implication surely is that israel sees that it's not only going to address hamas, it's going to address hamas�*s backers in iran. indeed, there is some reporting that iran was involved, knew about hamas�*s plans, even gave them the green light, according to one report in the wall streetjournal, though i know others have denied it. but do you see the inevitability of this leading to an israel—iran confrontation? well, we know that iran is very involved in gaza. they sponsor hamas. they provide them with funds, with technology.

we have seen hamas leaders flying to tehran. so we are aware of the connection. i would not be surprised that the iranians actually chose the timing of the attack because they saw what's happening in the region with saudi arabia, with the involvement of the us in the region. and for them, when you have stability and peace, that's bad news. for us, it's good news. for them, it's bad news. and also you can see the proxies of iran that are engaging against israel. so we cannot say today directly that iran is fighting against israel, but we can say it very directly that iran is supporting their proxies in order to bring chaos to the region. do you have a fear that what is about to start in gaza may spiral far beyond gaza? that is not our intention. you know, we are very direct about it. we do not want

to open more fronts. but i would advise hezbollah and other players not to test our resilience. if hezbollah willjoin the cycle of violence, we will bury hezbollah under the rubble of lebanon. it is not our intention to fight with anyone else but with hamas, which unprovokedly attacked us two days ago. but we are watching very carefully what's happening in our region and we have the capabilities to defend ourselves, not only in one front. danny danon, we're out of time. i thank you very much forjoining me from tel aviv. thank you. thank you, stephen.

hello again. monday felt like another warm, summer's day — except, of course, it wasn't summer. no, it's 0ctober. it's meant to be a lot colder than this. these blue, sunny skies sent temperatures soaring, particularly across england and wales — the warmest spot, east malling in kent, 26 degrees celsius. now, average for these cities at this time of the year is 15 or 16 degrees, so ten degrees above average. even the temperatures we had on monday were in excess of what we'd see in a typicaljuly day, so that's why it felt like summer. now, you can see the clear skies that we had across england and wales, but lurking out in the atlantic, we've got more rain—bearing cloud around, and that's not good news for scotland, where we still have the bulk of the flood warnings in force across the nation. it's here where, of course, we saw torrential rain and flooding over the course of the weekend, and with more rain developing over the next few hours, that's not going to be exactly welcome rain that arrives. further southwards,

across england and wales, we keep those clear spells over the next few hours. one or two mist patches and a few fog patches developing, but it's a mild start to the day on tuesday. i think the biggest concern, though, will continue to be this area of rain affecting scotland. in the grand scheme of things, 50 millimetres falling from this weather front over the mountains of western scotland isn't a huge amount, but given that we've got flood warnings already in force, the ground saturated after what fell over the weekend, then this rain could cause some further extra issues. it does trickle southwards, reaching northern ireland and the far north of england, as well, late tuesday afternoon. south of that, it's very warm again. 0nce we've lost those mist and fog patches, temperatures could hit 2a degrees in the warmest spots. now, tuesday night sees this band of rain pull away from scotland, so hopefully things will begin to improve here, to a degree. but we've got some heavier rain setting in place further southwards across england and wales, and this rain band through wednesday slowly moves across wales, the midlands, into east anglia, perhaps not reaching the far south until after dark, where it will continue to be warm,

with temperatures in the low 20s. but otherwise, those temperatures coming back down closer to average levels for october. now, heading into thursday, we've got some more rain moving overnight and into friday, affecting parts of england and wales. so, rain at times, probably best sums up the weather picture. that rain clears away into the weekend, with temperatures dropping back closer to the october averages.

live from london, this is bbc news. israel's prime minister warns the gaza action has onlyjust begun and it will use "enormous force" against hamas. israel's defence minister orders a "complete siege" of the gaza strip, cutting off electricity, food, fuel, and water supplies. 0ur correspondent is in gaza: 20 and 30 families live in this building. i could hear the screaming of the kids, they were shouting. more details emerge from the music festival attacked by hamas, where 260 people died. imagine yourself using a rocket thatis imagine yourself using a rocket that is meant to buy on houses

or tags, fired on a group of 20 civilians. this is the scene live in gaza. we'll bring you the very latest from both sides of the border. and sir keir starmer takes the stage at the labour party conference later. he will promise a decade of national renewal if his party wins the next election. hello and a very warm welcome to the programme. i am sally bundock. the war between israel and the gaza—based palestinian militant group hamas is intensifying, as it enters its fourth day. all indications seem to be that both sides are preparing for a long and deadly struggle. israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu says he will use use "enormous force" against hamas and has promised to reduce all of its bases to rubble. the israeli military says there is now no ongoing

fighting on israeli soil after retaking areas