$z/startfeed. voice-over: this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines for you at the top of the hour, which is straight after this programme. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. for the first time since russia's full—scale invasion, the war raging in ukraine is not dominating the international headlines and geopolitical discussion. as the israeli military targets gaza in response to hamas's brutal assault, will kyiv be impacted by the shift in attention to that escalation of conflict in the middle east? well, my guest is olha stefanishyna, ukraine's deputy by the shift in attention to that escalation of conflict in the middle east? well, my guest is olha stefanishyna, ukraine's deputy

prime minister for european and euro—atlantic integration. with the fighting attritional and winter looming, should ukraine be concerned about the long—term sustainability of the backing it gets from western allies? olha stefanishyna in kyiv, welcome to hardtalk. greetings from kyiv, indeed. good to hear you, good to see you, steve. well, thank you forjoining us. madam deputy prime minister, let me ask you a very simple question — does it worry you that the world now has another deeply troubling conflict to focus on?

that is, of course, the escalating war in the middle east? well, sadly, we know very well when massive atrocious crimes are committed against civilian population and civilians. we've seen this massively in ukraine for already 600 days and, of course, our hearts with those who have fallen over this act of terror, which cannot be called any other way. we are standing strong with...with our israeli friends and we are making sure that there is no other understanding apart of the very fact that the crimes against civilians, crimes in population and any act of terror are unacceptable in the world based on the rules. your key ally, of course,

when it comes to weapons, economic and financial assistance as well, is the united states. the us and joe biden have pledged their unyielding support to israel. they are sending munitions it seems. they also have deployed an aircraft carrier to the eastern mediterranean. and one republican senator, josh hawley, said this — he said that right now, hamas poses an existential threat to israel and "any funding for ukraine should be "redirected to israel immediately." now, that's just the voice of one senator. but do you fear that in the debate in washington about funding ukraine going forward, that this could be a factor? well, we're living in a globalised world where everybody can go public with any statements like that. but we're standing by facts.

there is a significant amount of long—term political, financial and legal commitments to ukraine. ukraine is in middle of discussing security guarantees and security insurance act with allies, including the united states. there has been statements of different character, in different cabinets or oppositions in the us and in many other countries, but it does not, anyhow, undermine the unity to stand with ukraine and the long—term commitment to ukraine. in fact, just in two days, regardless, whatever has been happening, we're having the next round of the meetings in the ramstein format with the new priorities to be agreed on, the military assistance to ukraine. i appreciate that. the ramstein meetings go ahead with discussion of what ukraine needs, in terms of weaponry. i get that. but money is really important. i mean, you're the deputy pm responsible for euro—atlantic integration, so you watch what's happening in the united states very, very carefully.

you know that the republicans are searching for a new speaker. you know that the turbulence in washington has meant that there is basically a limbo period without any new authorised funding for ukraine, and you also know, in the words of one expert who follows this — max bergmann of the center for strategic studies in washington — he says, "the chaos in the house of representatives leaves "ukraine in a dangerous limbo. "if the us congress doesn't pass a funding bill, "ukraine is gonna be in deep trouble." do you feel that trouble looming? well, of course, it's not like we're, like, very calm about different discussions and the situations happening, including non—voting on financial life for ukraine. but on the other side, we are understanding the broader picture. in fact, unfortunately, we are living in a wartime for already ten years, which included changing of the three us presidents —

the obama administration, the trump administration, and now, biden administration — and we have different times, different dynamics, but none of these periods of time has led to any dramatic or significant decisions, which really undermined our efforts to end the war and to bring ourselves back to the family of european nations, so we are very realistic... but i guess my point is this — if i may, madam deputy president, my point is this — would you accept that you are, right now, inevitably, but dangerously dependent on the united states? we've had the foreign affairs representative of the eu, josep borrell, acknowledging that there's no way that the eu could step in and fill the hole if the us funding and armaments for ukraine were to be withdrawn. the eu simply doesn't have the capacity to fill that great big hole. so, you are very, very

dependent on washington, aren't you? well, first and foremost, everything related to survival of ukraine as a governance mechanism is ensured through microfinancial assistance of the european union, but of course, us is the largest, not only the supplier or producer of military support for ukraine, but the largest leader co—ordinating these efforts across all the group of more than 50 countries, and that's especially important to understand and to preserve the support this particular moment, because now the counteroffensive measure is taken by ukrainian armed forces, they are going in a very steady, predictable and clear way. we're advancing on a daily basis with, of course, a smaller amount of territories, but every day, our soil has been deoccupied, and that's why sustainability of military support is existential for ukraine first.

and, secondly, it's vital to make sure that it does not undermine any other efforts we have been taking over the last 600 days. right, well, let's shift focus. when you talk about the sustainability of support, let's shift focus from the united states to europe. how worried were you by the triumph of robert fico�*s smer party in the slovakian election? he's trying to form a government right now. his campaign was based on the "people in slovakia have "bigger problems than ukraine." it's one straw in the wind suggesting that in parts of europe there is serious weariness with continuing the level of support that you've had in the past. well, indeed, it's going to really complicate to build one picture following this slovak elections. at this moment, we have very different signals coming from. . .from this country.

but i think that, regardless, different, like, political slogans and the electoral moments, any country like slovakia should not forget that they are a member of nato and members of eu and, first and foremost, we're talking about being a part of nato, which means that being a part of the collective european security and meaning that all of these decisions related to military support, to the priorities and the security priorities for the whole eastern flank of nato, cannot be decided unilaterally by only one country. it should be a collective decision. no, that's true, definitely true, and no one country can decide matters. but, again, if one looks at what's happening in europe, was it wise for your government to choose — to pick a massive fight with poland over grain exports? now, some of the argument has been sort of solved in recent days, but the bad feeling definitely will not be forgotten in poland, and many advisors to mr zelensky said it's crazy to pick this kind

of fight, to even threaten to take poland to the wto in a lawsuit — why on earth did you do that? oh, that sounds so not correct, in fact, because ukraine have never been putting any problematic related to the grain, to poland or any other country. so, in fact, the elections has started in poland and this has become the issue fuelling the electoral agenda, and that's why we were only reflecting on that and, in fact, it is ukraine and european commission who brought the whole discourse in a constructive way to go. in wto, no claim has been filed. there's been a request for a consultation, which is a normal rules—based mechanism and, in fact, it has become really public because it was all over social media.

but i can assure you that it's just a family business between two countries and we are back to normal communication, and it should not be treated as something which caused a huge crisis in bilateral relations or any relations in europe. so, when the argument was at its height and the polish prime minister said that weapon supplies to ukraine would be stopped, can you tell me that they definitely have been resumed? what is the situation? at this point, we have not seen that this statement had affected the ongoing processes in terms of military assistance. hmm, that's a very tactful answer. i'm not sure what it means. are you getting weapons from poland or not? well, i'm not the minister for defence. i'm the political person in this issue, so i will check. but if there will be sort of problems like that, definitely, they will be brought to our and to my attention.

but, at this point, no shift away from the co—operation we have had been taken. yeah. you mentioned to me the state of the war on the front lines, you said "steady, predictable progress." others would say that what we have right now is an attritionalfight, which, frankly, looks stalemated and where the hopes that you and kyiv had of a breakthrough through the counteroffensive to sort of cut the russian lines — supply lines between crimea and the donbas over the summer months, that has not been achieved. and while the war rages, would you not accept right now that the signals from nato — and this matters to your portfolio — the signals from nato are quite clear, that you are not going to be given a time frame for nato membership as long as the war continues to rage on your territory. well, as i'm speaking to you from a country in the actual war, it's really hard for me to, you know, to have this kind of discourse. first and foremost, i do really

cover the nato, and i do — can confirm two things — the first, we're not talking about the timeline at this particular moment. and, second, we are really preparing ourselves for the membership. and i think it's really more important that even speaking or speculating on a deadline, there is a consensus which has been built this summer that ukraine will become a member of nato. and i can assure you that all the steps necessary for that have been done at all levels. and it will be for politicians to make a decision of course. there is a summit of nato in washington and 75th anniversary. we will see how can we advance, in terms of more clarity to that. but, again, i'm sure that we do not have to expect that the counteroffensive approaches and the way towards ukraine victory should be considered as the top serious, etc, it's the real

life, it's the real losses that we see, we face on our side, it's the real massive atrocities among civilians, it's the real winter coming and the new terrorist attack plan. so nothing has changed in terms of the atrociousness of this war. the only thing which is really different now from what we had a year ago is that we can say that we have a steady — rather slow, but steady advancing. and this gives a perfect predictability in many ways, including issues relating to planning financial and military support of ukraine. "nothing has changed," you say, and you have acknowledged, which is a difficult thing to acknowledge, that ukraine is taking terrible losses. i mean, we know that because this war is raging

on many fronts, the russian defences, clearly, have been built and it is a struggle, and according to the new york times, the pentagon believes that you may have lost tens and tens of thousands of soldiers, although you don't give any public number yourselves. has anything changed in terms of your absolute determination to fight till you have retained or regained every inch of sovereign ukrainian territory, or will there come a time, given the scale of pain and loss that ukraine is suffering, where you may have to consider something short of that? well, just speaking of a week ago, russia has deliberately attacked one of the residential villages in donbas area, which affected momentarily dying of over 50 people, including children, elderly people, women and everybody who were on this soil. this has been attack which could not really be

considered as something which we could be tired of. again, it's something the world has never seen since the second world war, and we understand that what we do, ourfight is existential for the whole country, ourfight is existential for the europe as a whole, and ourfight is existential for the whole world order, which existed before february 24. so we consider any discussion on territorial concessions, on getting tired of the war and on our, like, lowering commitment as a sign of weakness. it is not about ukrainians. ukrainians are the strength. ukrainians are the victory. and this is nothing that could be changed and it cannot be changed with changes of politicians or any election throughout the globe. right, but going back then to the support you get from your partners in europe, we talked about nato.

let's talk quickly about the eu. we know that there were seven different recommendations where the eu said, "look, you're going to have to work on all of these seven before we can give a green light to formal accession negotiations, ukraine negotiating a long—term entry to the eu. as i understand it from the summer, the message was you had only got approval for two of those seven areas of reform. so unless something changes dramatically in the next few weeks, you aren't going to be getting formal eu negotiations. well, since that time, things have changed dramatically and we will definitely be able to surprise our partners just in a couple of weeks when european commission will release its report on the enlargement, and this well, since that time, things have changed dramatically and we will definitely be able

to surprise our partners just in a couple of weeks when european commission will release its report on the enlargement, and this would give us the way to think how the accession talks might be started. it would be far beyond only two elements completed, and basically i'm proud that all our commitment and all our progress we managed to show and advance in over the seven criterias which are related to the rule of law, fight against corruption, issues related to human rights and politically exposed person, they affected the whole reform challenge in ukraine and the commitment to deliver on every area you can... 0k, well, you are sounding very positive. let me ask you one specific question — the hungarians, led of course by prime minister viktor orban, have sounded very unenthusiastic about ukraine's eu prospective, partly because they are a very worried about the protection of language, minority rights for their ethnic hungarian population inside ukraine. you've been having

negotiations about that. have you conquered orban's fear of what he calls �*hungaraphobia' in ukraine? well, i have a hungarian origin director of the office operating just here in the government, and we have pretty varied expertise in that regard. we have done a lot to secure the rights of all minorities in ukraine, and just for your understanding, it's more than 100 different types of ethnicities we have in ukraine and only basically hungarians are raising — are raising — i mean, the negative spirit of their rights. we have invested a lot of our efforts to ensure public and legal measures, mitigating let's say the concerns hungarian colleagues had. we had a consultation, we have adopted the legislation and received multiple amount of positive opinions from different sectors, but still, we need to see for the political consensus of this issue because it's exactly member states of eu who will make decisions by the end of the year,

and i have this feeling that we are relatively close to agreement if hungarian colleagues will stick to their words and promises. 0k. i guess the bigger picture is that the eu wants to be sure that ukraine is a truly free and democratic country living up to the values of the european union, and with that in mind, you've got a big challenge and a question to face. that is — are you going to hold elections, as you should, according to the electoral calendar next year? president zelensky has not dismissed the old idea, although he says somebody else is going to have to pay for the preparations. but your own civil society organisations in ukraine say that the idea of elections is extremely dangerous, they say it could destabilise the state as a whole, and that ukraine is in no position to run a fair and legitimate election during wartime. what's your view?

well, first, let me start answering the question from a perspective of a member of a government of a country representing an advanced democracy, which has a pretty long history of free election, which has been recognised by european union in particular in their decision of granting ukraine candidates statutes, and this commitment is there and this recognition and the feeling of ukrainian people is there. we are fighting for our democracy, as you know very well. and you made a very correct point — this was an idea of election that where somewhere in the year it was not inspired by ukrainian administration. we have never heard, let's say, any request for this dialogue even from our international partners. so it's just the deadlines which show that if there would be no war, there would be a timeline for preparing for the election.

but, again, no legal and security circumstances to our understanding are there to speak about the electoral process, and i don't think that this is the particular moment of time where we can really shift focus from surviving throughout the war and fighting the war too, starting electoral campaigns and preparing for the election. look, a last quick question. you're entering your second winter, you are suffering great losses. as we have discussed, the political context, diplomatic and economic support, it's all very complicated for ukraine and it's gonna get even more complicated. be honest with me — is doubt creeping in to you, personally, as to whether ukraine can achieve a victory in this war? there is no doubt. i can tell for sure on behalf of me, but also, on behalf of ukrainian people, absolutely not.

we understand that probably this could be a longer process, probably ukrainians stop picturing, i mean, any deadlines, and we are entering the phase where we understand that we would have to fight as long as it is needed until the victory of ukraine, restoration of our borders and bringing ourselves back and securing, let's say, our borders. this is rather the discourse and the feeling that we have at this moment, but of course, there is no single doubt and not a single person in ukraine can really...really, you know, show this doubt, and i think that the most important thing that — what i am talking about is i'm not talking on behalf of the political community in ukraine, it'sjust the feeling of the people,

and now, when our husbands and children are fighting the war, they're at war, many, many people had died just living in ukraine, just because of them being ukrainians. this is not something that could really, you know, inspire any thoughts of the full victory of ukraine, a part of the full victory of ukraine. yeah. olha stefanishyna, we do have to end there, but i thank you very much forjoining me from kyiv. thank you. thank you, steve.

hello. well, so far this month, many parts of the country have been experiencing unseasonably warm weather. but now the transition to something colder is upon us. and before that happens, a lot of rain through the early hours across many parts of england and wales. the colder weather has already reached scotland and northern ireland. the colder winds are coming in from the north. so clearer spells here and colder in the morning. but across the bulk of england and wales it's overcast. outbreaks of rain heavy at times. this is the weather front and once it clears away that colder weather will sweep in from the north. so still a very mild morning in the south, the mid—teens. and then it's difficult to summarise the weather through friday across england and wales because it will change quite a bit from heavy rain to sunny spells, perhaps some thunderstorms, gusty winds. it's about 50 miles an hour on the south coast. so really changeable picture on friday across england and wales. but scotland and northern ireland hear different story, scattered clouds, a few showers, windy, cold winds in the north and temperatures

around 12 degrees there in edinburgh. so once that weather front clears away friday night into saturday, it opens up the doors to those cold winds coming in from the north. nothing particularly unusual for the time of the year. it's just that it's going to be quite a shock to the system, especially for those of us that have been experiencing these high temperatures so far this month. so here it is saturday. the winds are coming in from the north now for a change rather than from the south. and these are the temperatures on saturday iii. so a degree maybe also around the average, colder than average i think in aberdeen around eight degrees celsius. and then saturday night into sunday, the winds will fall light in the centre of the country and with clear skies, that means cold weather, a touch of frost, i think even barely above freezing in rural spots in the south of the country. but with that and with an area of high pressure building over the uk, it's going to be fabulously sunny apart from some showers in the northwest of scotland, but below average temperatures i think across the board, whether you're in the north or the south, it'll be around say ten, ten to 13 degrees. and that high pressure is with us monday and into tuesday. we're right in the

middle of that high. that means light winds, perhaps a touch of frosts and murky, foggy mornings. but i think towards the end of the week, it looks as though things could turn a little more unsettled and once again, a little milder. that's it for me. bye bye.

live from london. this is bbc news. the united nations says israel has told them more than a million palestinians must leave the northern gaza strip within the next 2a hours. israel says it has dropped six thousand bombs on hamas targets in gaza over the past six days. this is the scene live in gaza as the conflict enters a seventh day. fresh plumes of smoke have been visible throughout the morning there. the top us diplomat antony blinken is injordan for talks with the king and the palestinian president. hello, i'm tadhg enright. welcome to bbc news. we start with breaking news on the israel gaza war.