particularly children, from exploitation and abuse? all this because israel was attacked from gaza by car's rule is, the moo men, women and children killed. my rule is, the 1400 men, women and children killed.— and children killed. my guest is the chief _ and children killed. my guest is the chief palestinian - is the chief palestinian diplomat in london. hamas, it seems, wanted a devastating war, but what about palestinians not with hamas? what are the options. —— what

are their options? welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. i want to start with something personal. you will come your family, is from the south of gaza. when you heard of the murderous attack that hamas had launched on israel on october seven, did you immediately realise that this was going to put your family and so many others in gaza in extraordinary danger? others in gaza in extraordinary dancer? , , others in gaza in extraordinary daner? , . , , ., danger? yes, absolutely. not onl m danger? yes, absolutely. not only my family _ danger? yes, absolutely. not only my family but _ danger? yes, absolutely. not only my family but all- danger? yes, absolutely. not only my family but all people | only my family but all people in gaza and my entire nation, because i knew israel well instrumental eyes this in the most horrible way possible and this is exactly what happened. trying to link hamas to the

palestinian people and then link hamas to isis and then link hamas to isis and then link the palestinian people to isis in preparation for this horror we are witnessing right this moment.— horror we are witnessing right this moment. ,, , , this moment. surely the message israel was making _ this moment. surely the message israel was making and _ this moment. surely the message israel was making and was - this moment. surely the message israel was making and was bound | israel was making and was bound to make was between hamas and unbelievable levels of barbarity and violence, and what they had to do was commit to destroy hamas? ida. what they had to do was commit to destroy hamas?— to destroy hamas? no, we have to destroy hamas? no, we have to listen to _ to destroy hamas? no, we have to listen to what _ to destroy hamas? no, we have to listen to what the _ to destroy hamas? no, we have to listen to what the israeli - to listen to what the israeli politicians and fanatics have been saying for years, including netanyahu, and the finance minister who was in paris recently and he said there is no such thing as palestinian people. in front of him was the map of palestine and jordan. i'm sure he will remember that. we have to believe that when he goes to the un and as a map that does not include any palestinian presence, the entire historic palestine is for him israel, we have to believe the defence minister when he says palestinians are simply human animals. israel was preparing

since 7th of october for these mass destructions. israel was preparing for the mass slaughter not of hamas but of my people. already 100 were killed, until you got the update and the numbers would rise. 1000 of those 2800 children. 1000 are still under the rubble as we speak. i want to net the rubble as we speak. i want to get your _ the rubble as we speak. i want to get your personal— the rubble as we speak. i wantl to get your personal experience at the moment but what you just said all santa israelis and many others frankly as a perversion of what happened on october seven. perversion of what happened on octoberseven. on perversion of what happened on october seven. on october seven, hamas launched a surprise, an unprecedented attack, which killed more than 1400 attack, which killed more than 11100 israelis, many of them children, some of them babies. you know that, i know that. in terms of human empathy, can you not understand what that has done to israel, to its people, to the feelings of notjust grief and loss, but of rage that have insua?— grief and loss, but of rage that have insua? hamas is a olitical that have insua? hamas is a political militia _ that have insua? hamas is a

political militia group. - that have insua? hamas is a political militia group. we i that have insua? hamas is a l political militia group. we are the palestinian government and the palestinian government and the representatives. the plo is the representatives. the plo is the sole legitimate representative of the palestinian people... no, i'm sor , palestinian people... no, i'm sorry. when— palestinian people... no, i'm sorry. when you _ palestinian people... no, i'm sorry, when you say - palestinian people... no, i'm sorry, when you say that... l palestinian people... no, i'm i sorry, when you say that... you asked, sorry, when you say that... you asked. please. _ sorry, when you say that... you asked, please, give _ sorry, when you say that... you asked, please, give me - sorry, when you say that... ym. asked, please, give me time sorry, when you say that... you. asked, please, give me time to answer. you cannot equate that with a government that you recognise that is a member of the united nations, that is israel, with a group. do not equate that. and from day one, i have been asked this question about condemnation. and we are very clear, we have said — not october 7, for 30 years — that we do not condone violence on all sides, particularly civilians. our position has been clear, and since october 7, 22 arab states governments, including my government, condemned the targeting of civilians from all sides. you know what is missing in there? the israeli condemnation of the atrocities not only since october 7, but for the last 106 years. i want to talk personal. i want to talk what

is actually happening cos it is important. so i want to know for yourfamily, some of whom were killed in the bombardment of the last ten days, what is happening to your family today? because we must talk about the humanitarian situation in gaza today. so what is happening right now? i know you speak to family every day, almost every hour. what is happening is almost like they are living a horror movie of standards out of your own imagination. horror, horror. a part of my extended family were wiped out just at the beginning of the israeli onslaught and bombardment. my cousin, her husband, her two children, other two children, twin, 2.5 years old. both of them have been in intensive care. i've learned last night that one of them lost his life. and then my sister, who lives in the south of gaza, had to receive all of her friends. there is a state of solidarity between people and now in her home, that is rather small for one family, there is 150 people.

this is what gaza is living now. gaza is living, millions... there are questions, very real questions, facing all of the people in gaza and those who are actors in this diplomatic, as well as military arena. there are questions facing them every single hour. let's start with one — a humanitarian corridor to get supplies through rafah, from egypt, into gaza. as you understand it, is it going to happen? there's an awful lot of negotiation around that. this has been our main pressure from the beginning. a ceasefire, humanitarian corridors, respect for international humanitarian law. israel has refused that completely. i was completely astonished to hear the israeli ambassador to the uk this morning, refusing to say that there is a humanitarian crisis, even saying there is no such thing as humanitarian crisis — abhorrent, really abhorrent. this is the type of hasbara we are dealing with. gaza is living its worst moments, and you know what? the starting point,

the bar was very low. you know what has been happening to gaza over a long period of time. one of the most pressing humanitarian crises in gaza is the fact that up to 150, some say up to almost 200 israeli captives are being held by hamas gunmen inside gaza, in subterranean tunnels. do you now, representing the palestinian authority, which at the beginning of this conversation, you claimed was still the voice of the palestinian people — are you prepared to say, here and now, those people, those captives, must be released without precondition? i am prepared to tell you that we want to see all captives and hostages released immediately, and their safety must be kept. yes, of course, we stick to our commitments under international law and we want that to happen. all those — but we also have... hang on, when you say all, you are clearly implying that there should be a deal between the palestinian prisoners held in israeli prisons...

deal or no deal, israel has been rounding people illegally. there are many who are there for years without trial or charge. there are children. there are old people. there are women, yes. there are women being held in tunnels under gaza today. do you call upon those who hold them to release them without condition now? rules, international rules must be applied here, ok? and we have been calling for the red cross, who should be negotiating this to come in — israel has blocked the red cross. we have been calling for third parties to come in. egypt has been pressuring to open the crossing for humanitarian aid. we want the full force of the international community to sort your questions right now. but international law is very clear. you know, israel has been taking 2.3 million palestinians in gaza hostage for 16 years. so, please, let's not discuss hostages. this is a moment when the world help both sides come to the right conclusion. "let's not discuss hostages" is not a position which is going to win you a single new ear, new audience in israel.

how can you say, "let's not discuss hostages"? rights of hostages have to be respected. from day one, i, and i think all those i represent have been clear that they must be kept safe, that they should return safely. this is our culture, this is our policy, this is our belief. you tell me, what option does israel have but to seek and deliver the complete destruction of hamas, after what has happened? israel is not after that. no, no, tell me what option it has but to seek hamas's elimination. ask them that question, israel has... i tell you, what is the real option israel has. to eliminate its illegal occupation. you know, your moral compass, you and i — i look at you as an international mainstream media — is almost located like a snapshot on october 7.

your moral compass needs to be located since 1917, 106 years ago, when this country, britain, issued the balfour declaration, denying us nationhood and peopleshood. when they turned us into non—jewish minorities in our homeland. we were — stephen, look at me — we were, 96... i'm looking and i'm listening... now, 96% of the population owning 98% of the land. and we were turned into non—jewish population that did not even arrive yet. they were about to emigrate to palestine. then, with the greatest of respect... the moral — then the moral compass... that situation was in place when you and your colleagues in the palestinian liberation organisation chose to make a two—state solution peace with israel. so let's not get stuck on 1917. no, no, no, no. if you want to talk history, it's more useful, surely, to talk about the history of the last 30 years? don't strip it of context, and don't strip the uk of its own responsibility —

historic and legal and moral — and the international community. what i want is a fruitful discussion, which may yield some clues as to where we go from here. you are part of a group, the palestinian liberation organisation, but particularly yasser arafat, fatah, what became the palestinian authority, took a key, strategic decision in the early 1990s to pursue a two—state negotiated solution with israel, right? true, accurate. and right through the early 1990s, you got the oslo accords. it appeared that that peace might be achieved. the organisation most determined to destroy that peace was hamas, started letting off the suicide bombs in israel, which radicalised the israeli population and which, over time, saw that oslo dream die. is it not time for you to recognise that hamas is your strategic enemy? it is my time to be accurate and true and represent the very plight

of my own people. what you just said is true. we, the plo, we, the national movement, yasser arafat took a very brave decision 30 years ago exactly. there were three sides to that equation. there was us, and we were asked to do three things — recognise israel, commit to negotiations and nonviolence, and commit to international resolutions and international legitimacy. we have done that since then, until this moment. the second party was israel. it was supposed to roll back its occupation and stop its illegal colonial settlement expansion. the third party was the us—led international mediators. they were supposed to provide guarantees and accountability. we did our part of the bargain, and these 30 years, israel has quadrupled settlements, and, stephen, you know very well —

you are very well—read and you follow the situation — what has devastated the prospects of a solution, based on international legality, was israel's colonial expansion to take as much of the land with as less of the people. because you are also following this very closely, from many different perspectives, you know that i talk to israeli politicians, have done in the last week, and asked them very tough questions about precisely the sorts of policies that you've just alluded to. but right now, with you, my responsibility, i believe, is to talk about your relationship with hamas. i asked you if you saw hamas as an enemy. let me just quote to you something that ismail haniyeh, political chief of hamas, said, from, it has to be said, the safety of doha, qatar, after the october 7 attack. he said, "we are now in the ultimatejihad, "the outcome of which can only be victory or martyrdom." haniyeh wants to claim your dead relatives as martyrs for his jihad. how do you feel about it?

you ask haniyeh for that. no, i'm asking you for that. you've just lost members of your family. you ask haniyeh for that. i'm asking you, because you are grieving for members of your family who haniyeh says are martyrs in his struggle. ok, stephen, ijust told you, hamas isjust a group, we are the government. the ones who killed my relatives are the israeli army. the bomb that blowed their heads were israeli—made, maybe american—made, but sent by israeli jet fighters. do you not think that... let's compare... ..hamas wanted... no, no, no. israel to respond... that's why about the snap... that's why, about the snap shot politics and media. you think my relatives have just been killed only in the last week? they've been killed over 100 years by the same weapons, by the same instigator... hamas was created only 20, 30 years ago. let's not reduce everything and blame everything onjust some group here or there. this is unfair, stephen, and it doesn't give in give justice to the people i lost. it doesn't give justice to the people i lost. i want to go back to the moral compass. hang on...

i want to go back to the moral compass, please. we were denied, for 160 years, our very basic rights. there was an international consensus, un security council resolutions, israel has got to end its occupation immediately. and then 30 years ago, 1993, oslo international consensus, two states, a state of palestine. consensus, except one country. one country — that is israel. it has blocked... and one hugely important palestinian organisation, that is hamas. israel has so many... i'm sorry, but right now... you are drawing — no, no, no, this is unfair. ..we need to talk about hamas. hang on, i'll tell you why, because... talk about hamas with hamas. you know ghassan khatib... talk to me about... ..very well, a former palestinian minister, and he says this, this week, he says, events in gaza are increasing the political weight of hamas and decreasing the political weight and influence of the palestinian authority. and your boss, mahmoud abbas, because, he says, now is the time for fighting, and the popular parties

in palestine are the parties involved in the fighting. you fear that to be true, don't you? don't make this an inter—palestinian issue. we are united as a people, forget about these factions. but you're not... we are. how do you not believe...? no, we are... i do not believe that... no, no, believe it. ..husam zomlot thinks that... don't believe whatever... ..the murderous attack in israel on october 7 was justifiable, was right... i simply don't believe you think that. no, ijust told you — we condemn the targeting of civilians from all sides. and i told you, very clearly, that 22 states with us have done so. the entire region... they're missing from that condemnation and responsibility and commitment is from israel. so you're asking the wrong people, the wrong questions, stephen. and not only you, the entire international media, the wrong questions. and why don't you ask me about the kahanist groups in israeli government now, that you recognise and you legitimise, and you celebrate, and you want to have the unequivocal support for them all the time.

why don't you ask me about ben gvir, who has been handing weapons to israeli civilians over the last week — machine guns? why don't you ask me about smotrich, who published publicly a paper calling for palestinians to choose between three options, publicly? either we accept being slaves in our own land, or we leave en masse, as they are doing in gaza, trying, attempting at mass expulsion. and the third option, he says it, you are going to get killed. so ask me about those people. let me ask you... and you know what? those people are in government, hamas is not in government. if i may ask you a question, it is actually about what's happening in the west bank because it is deeply alarming. you've alluded to the very far right—wing nature of many of the cabinet ministers in netanyahu's government. what we have seen this year is an unprecedented level of violence, which has seen enormous numbers of palestinians, more than ever before, in that timeframe, killed. in the last ten days,

we've seen 55 palestinians killed in the west bank and in eastjerusalem. the question for you in the palestinian authority is, can you keep a lid on the tension and the violence, which is so clearly on the brink of something so much worse in the west bank? if the world, particularly western powers, take the responsibilities seriously, if they implement what they created, the rules based, you know, world order, we will be fine. if they curb this government of fanatics. and you are absolutely right. we are very concerned about what is happening in the west bank. there has been numerous accounts of settler violence, militias, settler militias, and you've seen what has been happening over the last few months. that's why i keep talking about the snapshot, this. murderous militias, settler militias in huwara, in nablus, in hebron al—khalil, in ramallah, everywhere, injerusalem... at the beginning of this year, the palestinian authority, you have had a degree of security cooperation

and coordination with israel — that's now ended. but we know that there are armed palestinian militants in many palestinian towns and cities across the west bank. ijust ask you one more time, is the pa, right now, determined to try to control levels of violence in the west bank? the pa is determined on one thing, one thing now — to protect its own people. that's our task, that's our mission. that's why we are there, to protect our people, by all means possible. and our most significant way of doing so is by bringing the world to take up its own responsibility. we are in 24—hour conversations with all leaders, all our diplomatic hopes are engaging right now, and our main mission is to protect our people. this is not the time to talk about this. but you've just said about armed struggle, just now. you know it, hamas was created recently. i mean, it's us, the plo, the national movement who started... well, hamas was created

in the 1980s, as we've discussed, and they became active as a violent militant organisation in the 1990s. ok, i want to ask a question. now, in the face of this very clear reality in israel, they, those in government, do not want to create or end the conflict by ending their occupation. they are not interested. you've heard netanyahu numerous times. please believe him, he means it. he is not going to give us our rights. what do we do? we tried the armed struggle, and the world, of course, instigated by israel, called us terrorists. by the way, the plo is still designated in the us congress as a terrorist organisation, 30 years after we signed the oslo accords and after we committed to all that. so this isn'tjust about hamas. then we move to popular peaceful resistance and international activism. joining the un, joining the icc, joining the icj, as you remember, trying to bring some accountability. that is called diplomatic terrorism to the israelis. and then all our peaceful demonstrators — when our

peaceful demonstrators go to protest the israeli occupation and colonisation and besiegement and apartheid, they are shot and killed under the pretext they are violent activists. and when your people come out in the streets by the thousands, like last saturday, they are called anti—semites. and when even many, manyjewish people, freedom—loving jewish people, support the cause of palestine, they are called self—hating jew. stephen, you are a veteran. hang on, i'm — we're almost out of time, i want to ask... we are a veteran, what do we do? what rights do we have? do we have rights? do we have the right? let's address... no, no, i want to ask... ..the longer term, in a final question, which you very free to answer... do we have the right to defend ourselves? do we have the right to resist these illegalities? you are... and what are these rights? i want the world to tell us. listen... so we stick... if i may, let's ask the last question... why the palestinian people are always made to be the exception to every rule? why israel is always made to be above all of our rules?

this is the real conversation, why is the prime minister here? husam, you're here, actually, to answer my question. so let me try one last question. you've been a diplomat for a long time, particularly focused on making the palestinian case in western capitals. does it not strike you that if, as an outcome to this terrible violence that we are seeing today, that hamas is effectively taken out of the game, the arena, it may be that they could, in the long run, be the space, finally, to talk about a peace between those two peoples, palestinians and israelis, who share this small chunk of land between thejordan river and the mediterranean sea. getting rid of hamas can help, can it not? what we need to get rid of, and then leave hamas to the palestinian people, because you cannot defeat ideologies with bullets as israel is trying to do,

and rockets, they will end up in the bare bodies of babies, these rockets. you defeat ideologies in the ballot, not the bullet, the ballot box. and i assure you, the palestinian people will deliver their verdict because they do not want to see, except a government that will build up, that will send them to prosperity, give them opportunities. however, to get there, the first condition is that israel ends its occupation. we need to ensure international humanitarian law now is applied at full and equally. think of ukraine. we need to make sure that accountability happens so this is not repeated. atrocities have been committed against the palestinian people long before hamas was created. thirdly, we need to implement international resolutions, not negotiate them. and i believe, as you do, this could serve as a wake—up call, as an alarm, that there is no way you can bypass the legitimate rights of the palestinian people, and there is no way you can repeat a second nakba. and we have to end there. but, husam zomlot, i thank

you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you. hello. time to have a look at the weather for the week ahead. and i can tell you right away, many of us are in for some very unpleasant autumn weather. heavy rain and strong winds after a decent spell of sunshine on tuesday. so it was the calm before the storm, if you like. and here it is on the satellite picture. it's storm babet spinning around just to the west of portugal there. but the weather fronts and the rain—bearing cloud already heading our way. and this weather map shows

a complicated picture over the next few days as multiple weather fronts sweep not just across our neck of the woods, but across other parts of western and south—western europe, delivering flooding rains and strong winds. so a very unsettled autumnal picture across many parts of western europe. but let's focus on the uk, and here is the rainfall accumulation as the days go by. so, wednesday, thursday into friday, initially, the rain will be heavy in the south, but then it should peak in northern ireland, in parts of scotland, also the north and the north east of england. in some spots well in excess of 100 millimetres of rain, more than a month's worth, and in the extreme case, possibly even double a month's worth of rainfall in parts of eastern scotland. we'll get to that in just a second. but here's the short term, then. so the early hours on wednesday, yes, strengthening winds, but fairly quiet across the bulk of scotland, england and wales. but you can see showers already gathering here in the south west, some

across northern ireland, too. this is the beginning, basically, of storm babet. strengthening winds also out of the east, south—east. so, normally gale—force winds sweeping off the atlantic this time of the year, but this time they'll be coming out of the east. so very strong winds on these north sea coasts. but actually the weather itself — aberdeen, edinburgh and hull — yes, chilly in the wind, but some sunshine. the rain at this stage, wednesday and wednesday night, is across northern ireland, many parts of wales, england too, and as that weather front associated with storm babet moves northwards, so early hours of thursday and then through thursday itself, that weather front here kind of aligns itself with that strong to gale—force wind blowing out of the south—east. so it basically means that the clouds, the rain—bearing clouds will keep coming to the same place here and dumping all of that rain across parts of northern england and also eastern scotland. now, to the south of us, the rain is going to be more showery, but this has prompted the met office to issue an amberwarning. this is for thursday and most of friday, up to 200

millimetres of rain is possible in some upland areas. i think most will get about half that amount and many of us will get at least 50 millimetres of rain in other parts of the country. and here's friday. it's still raining. see what i mean? that easterly wind is pushing those rain clouds towards parts of northern england. at this stage, it does look as though some respite from the rain across the very far north of scotland. so a really wet picture through most of this week. and you can see how complicated, end of the week, this weather map is. so a big area of low pressure parked across this part of europe, pushing all of these weather fronts away. so here it is again, through friday and then into saturday. again, that easterly wind with those persistent rain clouds. and then, come sunday, it does look as though that wind is going to change direction, and i think it's going to start to get a little bit drier and brighter. wherever you are, take care.

live from london. this is bbc news. israel and the palestinians blame each other for an explosion at a hospital in gaza, that's thought to have killed hundreds of civilians. the blast sends shockwaves

through the region, with palestinians protesting in the west bank. jordan cancels a planned summit with the us president asjoe biden heads to the region to show support for israel. hello, i'm sally bundock. hundreds of palestinians are feared dead after a huge explosion at a hospital in gaza city. hamas health officials said the al ahli arab baptist hospital in gaza city was hit by an israeli airstrike, killing at least 500. the israeli military has denied responsibility, saying the blast was caused by a failed rocket launched by the palestinian armed group, islamichhad. us presidentjoe biden is currently travelling to israel, but but a planned

summit injordan with arab