waters for wildlife. turns out if you stop killing animals on mass scales and you give them a chance to rebound, they can recover. the scientists hope to return to find out more about how the world's largest whales are using this area and if they're breeding here. they'll be looking and listening for more clues about how to protect these waters now that the ocean's largest inhabitants have returned. victoria gill, bbc news. time for a look at the weather. here's ben rich. a mild one today. temperatures as high as 15 in places, north—east england was the warmest spot but the high—temperature is were recorded this morning. by the this programme continues on bbc one. 13 israeli hostages are tonight on the verge of freedom

as the plan comes into focus. is there some cause for optimism at last? with the names of those being swapped tomorrow now known to israel and hamas, the stage is set for a four—day truce, we'll find out how it might work. also tonight, violence on the streets of dublin following a knife attack in the city centre earlier today. we'll have the latest. as a right—wing populist party wins the most seats in the dutch parliament, nick is in the netherlands finding out how they did it and what lies ahead. this really is a huge moment. here we are in amsterdam in the heart of

the netherlands, which is one of the originalfounding members of the netherlands, which is one of the original founding members of the european union. this country has given first place in the general election to a far right leader. with the uk recording 670,000 immigrants in the year up tojune, we'll unpick government plans to get the numbers under control. and we meet two people who were child refugees, with quite different perspectives on the conflict in the middle east. it's the hatred that is instilled into young people in general. they are being brainwashed. i into young people in general. they are being brainwashed.— are being brainwashed. i strongly believe that _ are being brainwashed. i strongly believe that the _ are being brainwashed. i strongly believe that the only _ are being brainwashed. i strongly believe that the only way - are being brainwashed. i strongly believe that the only way forward i are being brainwashed. i strongly l believe that the only way forward is for us _ believe that the only way forward is for us to— believe that the only way forward is for us to share that space inequality within a democracy. good evening. there's hope tonight that an exchange of israelis and palestinians will follow a temporary ceasefire beginning at seven tomorrow morning. if it works out, and a truce holds, it will be followed by three more days of the same,

bringing freedom to more than 50 israeli women and children abducted on the 7th of october in return for 150 palestinians detained by the israelis. there have been false dawns before, a couple of times we thought the exchanges were about to begin, but today it's been confirmed by the qatari foreign ministry, who've helped set up the swap, and the names of those about to be freed have been shared. here'sjoe. what more do we know about the detail? , ., . ., , ., detail? there will be a ceasefire at seven o'clock _ detail? there will be a ceasefire at seven o'clock local— detail? there will be a ceasefire at seven o'clock local time _ detail? there will be a ceasefire at seven o'clock local time tomorrow| seven o'clock local time tomorrow and at four o'clock the crucial moment, when 30 israeli hostages, women and children, will be released and into the hands of the red cross. at the same time about three times that number of palestinian women and children who have been detained, some without charge, are going to be released. we don't know where they will go, but there is speculation to the west bank. what will be coming

into gaza is 200 trucks of aid, much needed, along with four trucks of fuel a day. this is a big breakthrough if it happens. we have been speaking to those who have watched these things closely and they have said it is optimism but cautious optimism. i think there is reasonable expectation the process can begin. the question is once it begins will it have a sort of traction and will each side give one another the margin that is required to actually see 50 israelis returned and the first tranche of 150 palestinian prisoners? so i'd say at this point, given the weeks of negotiation, it is reasonable to expect that at least day one will begin. i know it hasn't started yet and people are wondering about what happens beyond this four—day plan? the israelis have said that their

mission to destroy hamas continues and hamas says their finger remains on the trigger. but it is notjust down to those two parties. israel has needed backing from its international allies in the eu and international allies in the eu and in the us and there is a slight shift in mood music there. we have an article published by president biden, and on the palestinian side it is hoped that some pressure can be brought to bear on the israelis during this pause. i think in closed rooms a lot of the policymakers in europe and in washington who initially were saying war is the solution, we are going to let israel do the job, this is going to be resolved, i think they're having a rethink and i think that they are growing increasingly concerned not just about the human toll of this on gazza, but also about the fact that netanyahu doesn't have a political solution in mind and keeping this war to run on in perpetuity

isjust not possible. an important point is the israelis have said that every ten hostages hamas release beyond the original 50, they will allow the ceasefire to continue for another day. interestingly, they have released the names of 300 palestinians who they think can be released. 0nly150 are accounted for in the three to one ratio for the initial hostages. it seems like they are planning for more hostages to be released and for the ceasefire to go on a few days more at least. earlier we spoke to danny ayalon, a former deputy foreign minister and israeli ambassador to the us, and began by asking him whether the deal brokered by qatar and america is a good one for his country. well, any deal which alleviates human suffering, which even brings one person out of this brutality, the savagery of the hamas terrorist prison, is good. of course, we are very happy for everyone who was out

and theirfamilies, and of course we are very much bleeding, our heart is bleeding for those who are left behind. but unfortunately, hamas is a terror organisation, just like isis, and they are trading with blood. they are dragging it over, israel suggested, from day one. bring them all home and we will release everyone you want from here, even though we are talking about murderers with blood on their hands, terrorists. we were willing to release all of them just to get the hostages home. of course they were not interested, but now, when they feel the grunt but now, when they feel the brunt of the israeli ground operation and they are fearing for their survival, they are starting to acquiesce. beyond these four days, there is a possibility if more hostages are released to extend the truce. but if that doesn't happen, prime minister netanyahu has been clear — the war is back on. the objective is to free gaza and, frankly, the palestinian people

from the hamas terrorist grip. this is something which is given, and the americans, from president biden all the way down through his administration, they understand it because when hamas terrorists are there, there is no peace, there is no coexistence, and any future agreement that we may think of... people talk about a two—state solution for two peoples. i, for one, am very much for it. but in order to do that you have to have a partner. a partner which is trustworthy and believes in peace as well. the hamas terrorists have taken the entire gaza strip as a hostage, turned it into a bunker, an underground, formidable military installation. i am just wondering, if you are going to press on with the war into the south, where all of those people went who fled from the north, a million people, the consequences for civilians are going to be even more horrific, aren't they? hamas is doing double war crimes.

they are indiscriminately targeting our civilians and they are hiding behind their own civilians as human shields. so we are trying to navigate and be very careful about it, but there is one solution... we know the toll has been heavy and the prime minister himself has said that israel has not succeeded in sparing civilian casualties in gaza. if you look at the geneva convention, if a terrorist takes over a school and turns it into a military bunker, it is no longer protected by the geneva convention. it is a legitimate military target. but i will tell you, hamas... i mean, we can still find some way out, and the offer is still there. a safe exit, a safe way out for the hamas leaders, even though they are terrorists and they should be brought intojustice... if they leave and we can secure a safe passage for them to qatar or whenever, then everybody will be spared,

and first and foremost, their own population in gaza. but they have no regard, not just for israelis, they have no regard to their own. that's the problem. if that isn't forthcoming, that offer to remove the hamas leadership, the defence minister today was talking about another two months for this campaign. is american and wider support going to hold up for another two months with losses of life at this level? i believe so. the goal, the objective is to get the hamas, isis—type out. because they are the main obstacle to any breakthrough in the middle east. and if we ever want to think of stability or prosperity, peace in the middle east, it cannot be with hamas. as long as hamas is there, the situation is very dangerous and the only ones enjoying the situation are the iranians, and who backs the iranians, which economically is china, politically and militarily,

it's russia. we have to understand, we are here, it is a part of real—world conflict. lastly, i just want to ask you, the leadership may go and you have obviously killed a good number of the military commanders in this campaign. but when this ends, the idea of hamas and some of their cadres will still be there in the community. how do you stop them taking over again? i think that the solution, you know... we should not invent the wheel here. just like in europe, in bosnia in the �*90s, after the war was over elections took place. but — and this is the big but — in the elections, who was allowed to run? 0nly political parties that had rid themselves from any possession of weapons. terror organisations cannot run. the mistake we made, all of us, in 2006 was that we allowed hamas to run, and hamas was a terror organisation, they were well armed.

you cannot really run with bullets into the ballots. now i am joined by hannah bond who is the co—director of policy and advocacy at action aid uk. welcome to the studio. what do you hope will happen once the ceasefire comes into place tomorrow morning? we hope it will mean the release of some of the hostages, which will be very welcome. unfortunately not all of the hostages. we hope it will be an opportunity for really essential humanitarian aid to get in, but for us four days is not enough. the needs are absolutely catastrophic at the moment. we have seen pictures on the moment. we have seen pictures on the news of hospitals that have been bombarded and of operations that have had to open by phone light, of babies in incubators, so four days is not enough considering the scale

of what has gone on. let’s is not enough considering the scale of what has gone on.— of what has gone on. let's say four da s to of what has gone on. let's say four days to start _ of what has gone on. let's say four days to start with, _ of what has gone on. let's say four days to start with, it _ of what has gone on. let's say four days to start with, it could - of what has gone on. let's say four days to start with, it could be - days to start with, it could be extended if more hostages are released, as we heard from joe. what is the checklist in terms of the things that humanitarian agencies want to achieve in that time? for us fuel is absolutely _ want to achieve in that time? for us fuel is absolutely essential, - fuel is absolutely essential, fuel is needed for hospitals to run, for life in hospital. as i said, caesareans have been happening by phone light. fuel is needed for bakeries to run and feel is needed for people to be able to cook food. medical supplies are absolutely vital at the moment. cesareans are happening with no painkillers whatsoever. i have had a cesarean myself and i can't imagine having one with no painkillers. medical supplies are really needed. food is essential at the moment. we know that people are surviving, whole families on one piece of bread or one tin of tuna a day. that is not

sustainable. and of course water and water is absolutely essential for people to be able to live any form of life. if people to be able to live any form of life. , , ., , ., of life. if this phrase and collapses _ of life. if this phrase and collapses as _ of life. if this phrase and collapses as a _ of life. if this phrase and collapses as a ceasefire, j of life. if this phrase and l collapses as a ceasefire, i of life. if this phrase and - collapses as a ceasefire, i guess hospitals who might be trying to get on top of the cases again with seriously injured coming in, that would be a disaster, wouldn't it? yes, absolutely. we can only hope that the four—day humanitarian ceasefire enables those medications to get in and enables feel, so that those hospitals combined in northern gaza, one was hit by an air strike the other day and last week they were operating with shrapnel flying around. i can't imagine operating under those sort of circumstances, or being a patient in those sort of

circumstances. so, yes, absolutely, we really need this to work but also to be extended into a longer ceasefire. we were talking about whether the operation will be prosecuted in the southern part of the gaza strip, more than a million people left from the north when asked to do so by israel. what about those million people in the south? what is their condition? how vulnerable are they if the operation resumes in the south of gaza? absolutely, that is somethin: south of gaza? absolutely, that is something our— south of gaza? absolutely, that is something our colleagues - south of gaza? absolutely, that is something our colleagues in - south of gaza? absolutely, that is| something our colleagues in action aid are thinking about, particularly with what they are hearing is that people have been told in these four days they will be unable to go back to the north but where do you go if you have no home? because it has been hit by an air strike. we understand the need for fuel and water and food in the south is also really needed, many people are

living in tents, in schools, it has started to rain so imagine living in a tent with your whole family are being forced from your home and it has started to rain? and being forced from your home and it has started to rain?— has started to rain? and winter. it is mediterranean _ has started to rain? and winter. it is mediterranean but _ has started to rain? and winter. it is mediterranean but it _ has started to rain? and winter. it is mediterranean but it is - has started to rain? and winter. it is mediterranean but it is still- is mediterranean but it is still winter. what can you do to help them? ~ ., ., ., them? we are doing winterisation, which is to provide _ them? we are doing winterisation, which is to provide hot _ them? we are doing winterisation, which is to provide hot meals, we. which is to provide hot meals, we are hoping to provide warm clothes and blankets to enable people to survive. to survive what could be a very difficult when your.— very difficult when your. thank you very difficult when your. thank you ve much very difficult when your. thank you very much indeed _ very difficult when your. thank you very much indeed for— very difficult when your. thank you very much indeed for that - very difficult when your. thank you very much indeed for that update | very difficult when your. thank you | very much indeed for that update on the humanitarian situation in gaza. there's been scenes of disorder on the streets of dublin tonight. following a multiple stabbing outside a school, crowds gathered in the city centre and vehicles have been set alight. that's given way to looting from some shops and the deployment of police and military units onto the streets. here's irish police

chief drew harris. well, i think there's disgraceful scenes, in terms of a major investigation, the maintenance of a scene, the gathering of evidence, and we have a complete lunatic hooligan faction, driven by a far—right ideology and also then this disruptive tendency here and engaged in serious violence. now, we are drafting in resources to deal with that, and that will be dealt with properly. i made it very clear, given full direction to our resources here in dmr, in respect of making arrests and bringing offenders tojustice. simon smith, a bbc producer, is in dublin right now. you were on the fringes of a melee earlier? i you were on the fringes of a melee earlier? ., you were on the fringes of a melee earlier? . ., ., ., , ,

earlier? i am not far from dublin castle and _ earlier? i am not far from dublin castle and there _ earlier? i am not far from dublin castle and there was _ earlier? i am not far from dublin castle and there was a _ earlier? i am not far from dublin castle and there was a brief- earlier? i am not far from dublin l castle and there was a brief melee with youths in dark clothing, many wearing masks, facemasks you might rememberfrom the covid pandemic wearing masks, facemasks you might remember from the covid pandemic and others wearing scarves, they clashed with police and tipped over a bin that had bottles in it and spent a few moments throwing them at police and the police charged at them with riot gear and some with shields, pushing them away, and a short time ago the road was reopened but there is a carpet of glass and you can hear the cars going over and crunching it away. it seems to be a running battle between the authorities and these groups of youths and i am not sure where it is going to go next. it does seem to have quietened down in this part of the city, whether it will be quiet for the rest of the city, we will wait and see. it will clearly be a long night for the forces of law and order here in dublin.— long night for the forces of law and order here in dublin. thank you very much for that _ order here in dublin. thank you very much for that update. _ well, we'rejoined now

by kitty holland, the social affairs correspondent from the irish times. i understand you are close to the scene of this multiple stabbing pretty soon after it happened. can you tell us how this incident has developed? you tell us how this incident has devel0ped?_ developed? yes, i have been covering an inuuest developed? yes, i have been covering an inquest which _ developed? yes, i have been covering an inquest which was _ developed? yes, i have been covering an inquest which was taking _ developed? yes, i have been covering an inquest which was taking place - an inquest which was taking place just across the road from where this happened and it happened during lunchtime so the inquest was on the break and some people involved in that court proceeding rushed in at a quarter to two this afternoon and said that children are being stabbed on the street so myself and another journalist rushed to the scene to see what was happening and by the time we got onto parnell square, which is in the middle of the city centre, there were about five ambulances, five fire appliances with paramedics and police cars and blaring sirens. hundreds of people gathering in shock and i went to the other side of the road where there

was an adult male who i understand was an adult male who i understand was the alleged perpetrator, lying bloodied on the ground with paramedics. and up the way there was a little girl, five years old, we know, her pink backpack beside her and her pink shoes and two paramedics working on her, doing cpr, and a lot of blood around her and she was put into the ambulance and she was put into the ambulance and taken away. behind her, on the steps, was a young woman, understood to be her teacher. she was in a collapsed state on the steps and a lot of blood on her. she was clearly very distressed and the paramedics got into an ambulance as well. that was the start of it. word went around that this man was a foreign national. that went flying around social media.—

national. that went flying around social media. and by about two we can see the _ social media. and by about two we can see the scenes _ social media. and by about two we can see the scenes as _ social media. and by about two we can see the scenes as you - social media. and by about two we can see the scenes as you are - can see the scenes as you are speaking. ba; can see the scenes as you are speaking-— speaking. by about four o'clock eo - le speaking. by about four o'clock peeple were — speaking. by about four o'clock people were gathering - speaking. by about four o'clock people were gathering and - speaking. by about four o'clock - people were gathering and people, police had the place cordoned off and the crowds were gathering at the edge of parnell square and that has escalated into the scenes we are seeing tonight, where losses have been set on fire and police cars have been set on fire, terrifying scenes. which have not been seen in this part of the island really before at all. so really terrifying scenes, really frightening scenes happening. and the garda commissioner said it has been driven by the far—right and he is probably right on that. the inner city, where this happened, there is a lot of poverty, there is a lot of very run down, deprived areas immediately cheek byjowl with the city centre.

and a chance to go up against the authorities and against the police is taken by young kids and i think thatis is taken by young kids and i think that is what is happening on the streets tonight. these are into politically motivated people, these are people we have seen an opportunity to get out and have a riot and they are grabbing it. there is a lot of angry, disaffected young people living with the cost—of—living crisis and everything and i would think they are the ones on the streets tonight. the and i would think they are the ones on the streets tonight.— on the streets tonight. the last word, do on the streets tonight. the last word. do you — on the streets tonight. the last word, do you think— on the streets tonight. the last word, do you think the - on the streets tonight. the last word, do you think the police i on the streets tonight. the last l word, do you think the police and the army are back in control of the city centre?— the army are back in control of the ci centre? , ~ , , ., ., city centre? yes, the army is not on the streets- — city centre? yes, the army is not on the streets. that _ city centre? yes, the army is not on the streets. that is _ city centre? yes, the army is not on the streets. that is going _ city centre? yes, the army is not on the streets. that is going around - the streets. that is going around social media, the defence force said they have not been on the streets. it is the police. i think this was a predictable and people are saying that the police were caught off—guard and they have been, this is something that no one could have

foreseen this time yesterday. 0r foreseen this time yesterday. or even this morning. i think it is fizzling out from what i understand but it is a situation that could happen again, i suppose. thank you for updating — happen again, i suppose. thank you for updating us _ happen again, i suppose. thank you for updating us in _ happen again, i suppose. thank you for updating us in so _ happen again, i suppose. thank you for updating us in so much - happen again, i suppose. thank you for updating us in so much detail. happen again, i suppose. thank you for updating us in so much detail onj for updating us in so much detail on the situation in dublin tonight. the headlines this morning proclaimed that immigration was at an all—time high. according to new figures from the office of national statistics, it shows that in the year tojune, an estimated 672,000 migrants remained in the uk. but then there was an announcement that the previous year's figures had been undercounted and that actually last year was the record—breaker with 745,000 people. the statistical foul—up hardly inspires confidence. either way the numbers mark a historically high level of immigration. the pm's spokesperson says it's

putting "unsustainable pressure on communities and councils" and that there's "more to do". but what does "more" actually mean? 0ur uk editor sima kotecha is at the wall to tell us. another week and more talk of immigration, this time triggered by net migration figures of 672,000. the increase in non—eu immigration was mainly driven by migrants coming for work, says the office for national statistics. this is largely attributed to those coming on health and care visas. these visas allow medical professionals to come to or stay in the uk to do an eligiblejob with the nhs, an nhs supplier or in adult social care. after free movement of workers from the eu ended in 2020, senior care workers were included in a list of roles eligible for work visa sponsorship.

home office data shows there's been a 157% increase in the number of these visas issued over the last year, from more than 117,000 to more than 121,000. the government has said over and over again it wants to bring the overall numbers down, and there's now talk of ministers limiting the number of relatives health and social care workers are allowed to bring with them. mark works in a hospital in the midlands. he wouldn't go on camera over fears he'd be labelled a racist, but he sent me this whatsapp message... "they come here and they do a great job with us in the hospitals, "but they bring their entire families. "and i'm notjust talking about one person but their parents "and other family. "and our resources in this country can't cope with us, let alone them "and their extended family. "it's too much." figures show in the year ending june

2023, there were almost 218,000 visas granted to dependants of those who had been separately granted a visa. this was almost double the number granted the year before. some feel not allowing dependants, or all dependants, into the country will deter those from applying to work here in this sector, which is, they argue, reliant on these staff. there are shortages in the care sector in a whole range of different roles. it's a difficult and skilled job that requires a huge amount of commitment. and one of the reasons that there's so many vacancies in the care sector is because that isn't recognised in their pay, and that includes more senior care worker roles, and there needs to be a way of addressing that. and people shouldn't be talking about limiting the number of migrant care workers coming into the sector when those very same care workers are propping up a system that's currently on its knees. around 265,000 out of 1.5 million

nhs staff reported a non—british nationality injune this year, up from 220,000 a year earlier. tonight, the government told us... "the net migration figure is not showing a significant increase "from last year's figures and is largely in line with our own "immigration statistics." this morning, the home secretary said we need to reduce our overall numbers by eliminating the abuse and exploitation of our visa system by both companies and individuals. many have said it's all about the economy and ministers won't want any detrimental impact on any sector as a result of their measures. the political effects of surging migration figures are also making themselves felt on the continent. the dutch freedom party has emerged from yesterday's elections there as the biggest in parliament.

it's led by geert wilders, who has advocated banning mosques and the quran. but he's spoken less about islam and more about immigration in recent weeks, pledging to stop what he calls an "asylum tsunami" and suspend europe's free movement of labour for refugees. and that's put him in a position where he can now try to form a coalition if other parties will work with him. nickjoins us now from the hague. there was a feeling that geert wilders would do well, there was a surge in his favour in the last two days of the election campaign but both opponents and supporters were surprised by the scale of his win. it is estimated he has won 37 of the 150 seats in the parliament behind me in the hague, obviously a clear win but not enough for him to be

able to govern on his own. so today we have been hearing much less of the firebrand and much more of a leader reaching out, geert wilders talking about how he wants to be a prime ministerfor talking about how he wants to be a prime minister for everyone. but across europe, leaders of the hard right or hailing this as a very significant movement for them, marine le pen in france is saying this shows that immigration and europe, people think it is excessive and it is anarchic. today i have been testing the mood here in the hague that i began in amsterdam. —— but i began. one of the gems of europe, where life ambles along in a mellow way — a most unlikely setting for a political earthquake. but that is exactly what's happened in the netherlands... cheering ..after the anti—islam populist geert wilders won a decisive victory in the dutch general election.

his pvv party is estimated to have won 37 of the 150 seats in parliament, well ahead of the left—green alliance led by the former eu commissioner frans timmermans. in third place was the vvd party of outgoing prime minister mark rutte, led by dilan yesilgoz. that leaves the new nsc party in fourth place. and the only realistic route to government is a coalition of the parties in first, third and fourth place. this really is a huge moment. here we are in amsterdam, in the heart of the netherlands, which is of course one of the original founding members of the european union, and this country has given first place in the general election to a far right leader. and just to get an idea of the sort of language that geert wilders uses, this is what he told me way back in 2006, when we met amid very tight security.

he told me, "we've had enough islam in the netherlands. "i believe islam is a violent religion and the koran "is a violent book. "there are moderate muslims, but no moderate islam." now, he has moderated that sort of language during this election campaign, but this country has changed and the repercussions will be felt across this continent. a political scientist sees two decades of campaigning meeting the right political moment. dutch voters have voted for geert wilders because they have been concerned about immigration for a long time. now, in the past, they have not always voted for wilders because it was very clear that he was not going to exercise power, but in these elections, immigration was a key issue and the mainstream right — and particularly former prime minister rutte's vvd —

opened the door to wilders and said they were willing to govern with him. now, under those conditions, he became a very popular alternative to other far right parties. and has wilders had some success? 0bviously talking about immigration, but also talking about economic, cost of living issues as well. part of the success of geert wilders is he always ties the cost of living situation to immigration, whether that's in the area of health care and its affordability, whether that's about housing and its availability. according to him, all the problems that dutch citizens experienced are due to immigration. and the european — it's a big moment for europe? i think this will be a big european moment. first of all, because geert wilders really has a boost now and can take up the leadership of the far right in europe, together with meloni. but secondly, his victory also shows other far right parties that are currently peaking in the polls — think, for example, in austria, think of france, think of belgium — that a first place is possible

in national elections. in the centre of amsterdam, despair. i think it's horrible. i think it's a disgrace that the left only got 33 seats in total, all the parties, all the left parties. so i think the left really needs to step up and maybe get a populist of their own. out for an evening stroll. "give geert wilders a chance," says this man who didn't vote for him. i think he should get his chance, just to try it - for the next four years. so, yeah, that's my opinion. when you say geert wilders should get his chance, is that because he's tapped into feelings on immigration? not only that. 0ur government collapsed because of immigration, l and i think wilders, _ during the elections, was very clever in tapping in onto that. but i think it's a broader issue - in the netherlands about immigration

that people want to be solved, and i think he's the smartest l person in addressing it. the bar in a seaside suburb of the hague where geert wilders came to celebrate last night. a supporter, who was at last night's celebration, is happy. yeah, i think it was a great thing for him to win the elections. it's better for the country, i think. but he has said that, in the past, the koran should be banned, mosques should be closed. does that send a negative message about the netherlands? no, i don't think so. he did it then, but if you ask him now, i don't think he's on the same point. a time for reflection in the netherlands and a time for europe to assess new political dynamics. nick watt reporting. in the age of tiktok simple solutions to complex problems get fed over the internet and fed

by algorithms to those inclined towards one side or the other in the gaza war. but the roots to this conflict run deep and there are narratives of dispossession on both sides. the bbc�*s religion editor aleem maqbool takes a look at the conflict through the eyes of two people in london, both refugees, who have a lifetime 5 perspective on it all. i rememberfear, i remember not understanding why we were leaving. i am lucky that i am here, i am grateful that i was able to come and was allowed to come to live here — this is a story about two people who were child refugees and have a lifetime's perspective on the conflict in the middle east. kurt marx arrived at liverpool street station from germany nearly 85 years ago in the remarkable operation that

rescued nearly 10,000 jewish children from a hostile europe, the kindertra nsport. this is the laundry bag. kurt still has the laundry bag his mother embroidered for him. he said goodbye to his parents not knowing he'd never see them again. he remembers getting his last letter from them one day in the middle of the war. the next day they were actually sent away from cologne to the east. they didn't know where they were going. it was the 20th ofjuly,1942, and we know now they were murdered three days later in minsk. kurt's parents were among 6 million jews murdered during world war ii and it was in the aftermath of the holocaust as the british left mandatory palestine that israel was created. a safe haven for some, but for a young palestinian, ghada karmi, it meant sudden turmoil, being uprooted

and losing the family home. we lived injerusalem, we went to the bus station and that bus station was incredibly crowded with people milling around, the panic communicated itself to me. and it is the saddest day of my life, there is no doubt about it. in the creation of thejewish state hundreds of palestinian villages were destroyed, hundreds of thousands of people were displaced. i tell you what stayed with me really, was that the realisation that this was done to us and nobody came to the rescue. ghada karmi became a refugee here just as kurt marx already was. and over the coming years from north london the neighbours watched the emergence of the israeli state with vastly different emotions of course.

for kurt after the horrors of the holocaust, and in particular for friends and relatives of his who settled there, israel became a symbol of salvation and of pride. when we were young there was no jewish state so there was no authority or nobody to protect you, if you like — 0ne feels that now there is a jewish state there is an identity that jews can say, "yes, there is a state of israel which to some extent could protect us." we support it obviously. it is a sentiment shared by generations ofjews since, but for some the perceived injustice and displacement is hard to move on from. while i understand the need for victims of the holocaust to go to a safe haven, a place where they will be safe

from the kind of horrors they were subjected to, why did it have to be my homeland? that's the problem that i have. i remember my father afterwards saying we had no problem withjews coming in as refugees. 0ur problem started when we realised they wanted to take over our country. for kurt the horrific attacks perpetrated by hamas on the 7th of october were a throwback, a reminder of the reason he fled germany and the dangersjews remain in. i don't think we've learned anything very much as we see what is going on at the moment. it's the hatred that is instilled into young people in general. they are being brainwashed whether it is the palestinian youth, or whoever it is,

whether it was the german youth in the hitler period. and i don't understand this really. this hatred is perpetuated. they teach it to their children. i can't understand, it's horrendous what is happening there at the moment, it hurts me, it makes me ill even to see it, to see what is happening in gaza. i understand that once and for all the israelis, we, want to get rid of hamas who are the cause of this hatred. ghada karmi insists it is only israel's actions over the decades that have perpetuated the hate towards it and she says that what is going on now is only exacerbating that. so you decimate gaza, you destroy hamas, which is highly unlikely,

but nevertheless you try, you chuck out a load of people