gloria steinem is a name that's become almost synonymous with feminism. she was the face of the women's rights movements in the us during the 1970s, focusing her efforts on advancing women's political participation and reproductive rights. her activism followed her career in journalism, which started here in new york. she was the co—founder of ms magazine, one of the first us publications to focus on women's issues beyond the perils of housekeeping. now, at 89 years old, she's in a unique position to reflect on how far feminism has come and where it has gone wrong. gloria steinem sat down with bbc 100 women to discuss how feminism has changed in the past 50 years, cancel culture, and what

the future might look like for women's rights movements. gloria, welcome. thanks for speaking with bbc 100 women. how are you? well, how am i? i would say i'm like eight out of a possible ten. pretty good. that's amazing. so what is life like these days? well, i am not travelling. maybe that's the biggest difference between most of my life and now, partly because of the pandemic, which, you know, put us all in our houses, and partly because now there's so much opportunity to communicate online. so i'm happy to be in my neighbourhood.

i'm still now hyper conscious of how great it is to be here. so, gloria, we're sitting here, it's 2023, almost 50 years after you founded the women's action alliance, which was a group that helped women fight sexism in the us. how do you feel about where the feminist movement is today? i feel proud of the amount of invention and rebellion and humourand... she chuckles ..community among us. at the same time, i'm living in a country where a female human being has never been president, when that could and should have happened long ago. so i feel proud of the movement but aware of how much it takes for a movement really to succeed, whether it's the civil rights movement, the gay and lesbian and transgender movement, the women's movement, i mean, and all these

movements are connected. when you want to measure progress, when it comes to women's rights, what are the key markers that you look for to say, ok, we've moved forward, not backward? some are simple, like how many women turn out to vote? and actually more women than men now do turn out to vote. some are more top down, like who's in the white house and who isn't. and some are very domestic. who is raising the children? who is making dinner? who is doing the dishes? that's crucial. and so based on all of that, do you think that there has been progress here? yes. no, no, no, there has been progress, just not enough. right? not enough, definitely. so what kind of change... ..you wish to see that

you think hasn't been achieved and you hope to see accomplished in your lifetime? well, the most obvious and simplest is that we can determine the fate of our own physical selves, so we can decide whether and when to have children, not to have children. you know, whatever it is about our physical selves because that's where our difficulty begins, because we happen to have wombs. and the desire to control wombs is very central to authoritarian systems. so, you know, it's clear that controlling reproduction is crucial. yet when we talk about politics, we don't usually start there. let's talk about gen z, the generation z. their oldest are entering their 20s, some of them are still in their teenage years. when you look at their kind of activism, how much does it differ from your kind of activism

and when you started? would you do anything differently now? well, of course, we have online communication, and that is a huge, huge difference. i mean, we were still mimeographing and phoning each other, you know. i actually wish we could continue that and have a big satellite in the sky that we control. but would you do anything differently today? get inspiration. do you get any inspiration from the gen z and what they're doing at the moment? oh, yes. no, absolutely. tell me about that. well, a movement is inspired by people moving, you know,

so that younger women have the courage to dress as they wish, resist adjectives, not have children or have children with or without marriage. that's all a step forward. what do you think about actually using the internet and online as a space for activism? or do you still believe that things happen when you go on the streets and march? we've added the internet to our various forms of communication, and we need to use them all. the problem with the internet is that it's discriminatory because not everyone can afford to have a computer or understands the technology or knows how to express themselves on the web, and that's worrisome. and it does make it somewhat worse since, just from an education or access point of view, probably men have more access to technology than women do. clearly, you can get the notice out of the call for a demonstration or whatever it is, much faster. but nothing replaces the two of us talking to each other, you know, absorbing meaning with all five senses, not just with something we say on the screen.

and the screen version is discriminatory economically because, how many people have a computer? i mean, if you look at the google offices map of the world and the lines going out, you know, where there's communication, there are big dark areas. yeah. it's very discriminatory. so nothing but nothing replaces the all five senses experience of being together, of more complete media. and actually it's physical. i mean, we can't empathise in the same way online 01’ on paper as we can... in person. ..in person. another thing that nowadays everybody�*s talking about is cancel culture. you know, there is this fear

of speaking up, especially among the younger generation. what do you think of that? do you actually think that this is compromising the freedom of speech of the younger generation? you know, i don't feel it myself, but i resent it on behalf of anybody who does feel it, because free speech is crucial to any democracy. we should not submit to cancel culture. it's social pressure as censorship, and it's definitely not a good thing. even when it is suppressing evidence of bias, it still is silencing people. 0nline we are seeing the rise of different personalities like andrew tate, one of them, i don't know if you've heard of him, and he's been criticised a lot for his treatment of women online, actually. why do you think there is this rise in this kind of sentiment against women and women's

rights movement these days? well, you know, we, you and i have grown up in some form of patriarchy... yeah. ..that says that even in the family, women are more responsible for taking care of infants and small children than men are, even though men are parents, too. so that's where a lack of democracy begins. and that's the beginning of change that we all can make. we shouldn't feel helpless just because we're not changing something globally. where the idea of domination and a lack of democracy begins is in the family. and it's even more important and even more the cause of future conflict to grow up with that, with making discrimination and domination 0k, than national policies are. so do you think that it is part

of feminism's role or mission, should be part of feminist movement missions, to actually help men also navigate in this world that is very different from 50 years ago and all of those gender roles are changing? do you think that should be part of the feminist movement goals as well? well, we need to be honest and say what we're thinking. i mean, men can't read our minds, but it is not our responsibility to make their revolution and their dinner, i mean... good point. there are people who actually think that feminism is bad. and online now, because a lot of people have their own platforms, they talk about it very openly. what is your strategy to actually convince these kind

of people with these views that, actually, feminism is beneficial for everyone? well, it may not be beneficial for... everyone. ..for somebody who is using... ..masculinity to dominate. that's like using being white to dominate people of colour. it's not right. it's not a good thing. and we have to be honest about it. you know, wherever we encounter bias, it's important to name it, to contend with it, to find people who share this anger and outrage and do something about it. there's no hierarchy of suffering. today when you look at feminist movement here, for instance, is there anything that you think the feminist movement is doing wrong? i wouldn't say that we're doing it wrong, but there are some things that we don't emphasise enough.

for instance, if we are working on some evidence of discrimination, then we who are working represent everybody who experiences it. and if we're only white or only... ..we�*re restricted in some way, it probably would be helpful and we would be more effective and we would have more fun and learn more if we included everybody who's affected by that particular thing. and fun is also very important in movements. yes, absolutely. now, you know, laughing is the one human emotion that can't be compelled. mm. you can make somebody cry or fear. you can even make somebody think they're in love if they're dependent for long enough, right? but you can't force somebody to laugh.

and that's why in cherokee culture, for instance, there is a god of laughter. the idea is that laughter breaks into the unknown. and, therefore, if you can't laugh, you can't pray. i really want to get your point of view on this. what do you think...? maybe... i don't want you to speak on behalf of all women in the world, but what do you feel is one of the most urgent things and challenges for women's rights at the moment? clearly, because we have a womb and men don't, the desire to control the womb... ..is often the first or most lethal or most impactful kind of effort. even when hitler was elected, and he was elected, the first thing he did the very next day was to padlock all the family planning clinics and declare abortion a crime against the state.

yet we don't necessarily say that when we discuss fascism. so the autonomy of female body is the most pressing? well, it's. .. the reason for our restriction is basically that we have wombs. and so that is often the central way we feel restriction. so do you think the reversal of roe v wade lastjune... ..well, some people, a lot of women supported it, a lot of women opposed it. what do you think the impact of this ruling will be on women in other parts of the world? it's not for me to say, except to continue to support reproductive freedom, the ability of each individual woman to have the right to have children or not to have children, and to do my best to connect with and communicate with and support women who are supporting

this around the world. i mean, reproductive freedom is as basic, maybe more basic than freedom of speech. i want to talk about iran a little, because last year after mahsa amini, a 22—year—old iranian kurdish woman, died in police custody because of allegedly wearing her hijab too loosely, because hijab is mandatory in public spaces in iran, women took to the streets all across iran. they took off their hijab, they burnt it, were swinging it in the air and chanting, "woman, life, freedom." i've spoken to feminist activists from different parts of the world and a lot of people, a lot of them called it a feminist revolution. what do you think about that? do you think of that as a feminist revolution? yes. yeah. because they are fighting for self determination, for the idea that a woman's body is not shameful or to be

restricted, you know, just as men's bodies are not. whether they use the word feminism or not is up to them. linguistically, especially, there are all different ways of saying this. some people said women power or women's liberation. it's up to us. when you look at different parts of the world with what women are achieving, especially in latin america at the moment, with the so—called green wave, they were very successful in advancing reproductive rights from argentina to mexico. what do you think about that front line activism taking to the streets? it's great. you know... it's right down your alley, i guess. yeah. no, because using our voices, protecting our bodies, supporting other women is what the revolution is all about. i also understand that they are in a slightly different situation

because they have a kind of national form of catholicism in some cases. and not... catholicism is not the only religion that tries to control reproduction and to create evermore people, but it is probably the best publicised one. the intersection of gender and race has always been centre to your work and your activism. how do you think we can ensure that globalfeminism is more collaborative and that western feminists are not speaking on behalf of women in other parts of the world? 0ur voices need to take account of experience, and we can't speak on behalf of women in another country whose experience is different. perhaps the chador is necessary for her safety, so i'm certainly not going to criticise her. perhaps the religious view on contraception and abortion

is more of a problem from one religion than from others. so it's up to us to say that. mm. and some argue that western feminism hasn't been inclusive enough. would you agree with that? well, that's probably true. i mean, we're dealing with racism in this country. we have always generally tried to say, ok, if the group we're starting with doesn't look like the country, then we should wait until it does. you know, do our individual or small group best to represent all the women who are affected by a particular issue. now, let's talk about me too, the me too movement. it exposed, here in the us, it exposed some of the most powerful men in hollywood as sexual predators and abusers.

do you think that the me too movement has done enough for women outside of hollywood, and even outside of us, to come forward and speak up about sexual harassment and violence? you know, they provided an example because to see women demonstrating at the academy awards ended up with women demonstrating at brandenburg gate and in africa so, you know, to the extent that we now have global communication — the actions of rebellion are contagious. i remember being in i think it was in london toward its beginning, and women in the street were... who had just heard about it, you know, were wearing signs that said me too. the appropriation of female bodies by men or the appropriation of bodies of colour by white people or whatever it is that interferes with our self—determination is not confined to one country or another.

so tell me, gloria, what does life look like for you now? i'm out of your home, your apartment. this is also where your foundation is as well. does that make it difficult for you to separate gloria steinem, the activist public figure from the personal, private one? there isn't a separation, really. i mean, i think the less separation, the better. the separation comes mainly, i think, from being employed by somebody else who sets the standards of your dress and behaviour and so on. and i don't have that. i'm enjoying staying home more. i mean, i was travelling

all the time for decades. so it is great to be home more. and i turn my living room into a place for talking circles where, you know, disparate people can come and meet, and that's fun. itjust, it changes form. you know, revolution is like a liquid that's being poured into different containers. it changes its form, but it's still the same liquid. now, what would you say is the biggest misconception people make about you? well, occasionally, especially when i was travelling a lot, people seemed surprised that i had a sense of humour. you're notjust an angry feminist. right. i think also if people look at the movement and think that it is more limited to college educated white women than it really is, it's often started in quite the reverse way. if there is any legacy, i would just say that i... ..was trying to make the world a little more fair and a little more representative than it was when i got here, that this included laughter and joy as well as anger and...

right? that each of us is unique so we shouldn't try to be like somebody else. but perhaps we can gain support and inspiration from knowing people who came before us. amazing. thank you, gloria steinem, for speaking with bbc 100 women. it's been a joy talking to you. no, thank you so much. thank you.

hello there. this past week has been bitterly cold with temperatures below the seasonal norm, very sharp, widespread overnight frosts as well. and we've seen some sleet and snow during the first part of this weekend. but into part two of the weekend, although it's going to stay cold, it might not be quite as cold at times. and low pressure with some weather fronts will start to push some rain across southern areas. here it is, this area of low pressure, bringing in slightly less cold atlantic air and some weather fronts towards the south of the uk during the course of sunday. any early wintriness though, from saturday night sleet and snow event will clear away quite quickly and there much of england, wales will hold onto the cloud. there'll be further pulses

of rain, particularly towards the south. winds picking up here to the far north of england, northern ireland, scotland. after very cold starts, we'll see a dry day. apart from a few wintry showers around coastal areas. we should see plenty of sunshine, but it will be a cold day now as we head through sunday night into the first part of monday, an area of low pressure pushes into southern britain, bringing an area of more substantial rain. strong winds could see some snow on the leading edge of that weather fronts north wales across northern england, over the pennines as it bumps into this cold air. so a frost—free night in the south, another very cold night to come with some ice and frost across the north. but for monday, quite a different picture. we have an area of low pressure sitting on top of us, certainly across england, wales it's going to be windier, cloudier, outbreaks of rain,

some of that rain turning to snow over the high ground of northern england. north wales, colder air from the north moves down. we'll also see showers moving off the north sea into eastern scotland. these will be wintry as well. so probably the best of the sunshine on monday will be across this north—west corner, further south and east, a lot of cloud outbreaks of rain, strong winds, too, that willjust accentuate the raw feel to things despite the fact the temperatures will be slowly climbing across the south. so as we move through monday into tuesday, that area of low pressure, slowly but surely pulls out into the near continent. but it will be a bit of a hung back on tuesday. so central eastern parts of england, eastern scotland will stay fairly windy certainly through the morning for the wintry showers at times. by the end of the day, it'll become confined to the east coast elsewhere, thanks to a ridge of high pressure. after a cold start, we should see blue skies, plenty of sunshine, so much better look to the north and the west of the uk. but again it's going to feel cold, particularly further east where we have that strong northerly cold wind. for wednesday, we're in between weather systems.

a new one will be pushing in from the west, but this ridge of high pressure will bring a fine start to wednesday, could see some mist and fog patches around. the winds will be much lighter, cold, dry and sunny i think sums up for wednesday. but we'll start to see the clouds and the wind piling up across northern ireland again by the end of the day. temperatures lifting here, but a cold day to come for many, particularly across scotland. and that is all change from wednesday onwards. for the end of next week, it looks a lot more unsettled. the jet stream will power back up, bringing low pressure systems off the atlantic that will at times you'll notice some nice bars around the charts, bring some spells of wetter and at times windier weather, perhaps some gales, too. but with our areas of low pressure coming in off the atlantic, with the winds generally from the west or the south—west, then you'll notice will keep the blue colours away from us and will be in those orange and yellow colours. so tending to stay on the milder side for the upcoming week. you can see, though, it looks very unsettled from wednesday, thursday onwards with some strong winds and heavy rain, too. stay tuned.

live from washington, this is bbc news.

israel pulls its negotiators out of talks with hamas as it bombards southern gaza with airstrikes. aid agencies have sounded the alarm. french police confirm the suspect in a fatal attack was on the security services watch list. more than 110 nations pledge to triple the world's capacity to produce renewable energy by the end of the decade. it is good to have you with us. a german tourist has been killed and two people injured after an attack near the eiffel tower, in central paris. the french interior minister gave an update a short time ago. gerald darmanin said the suspect was targeting tourists and allegedly told police he was upset by the situation in gaza. he has now been arrested. the minster also said the man

was known to authorities in france for trying to stage another attack in 2016.