forecast and later in the week it will turn very windy indeed with the chance of some wintry showers. temperatures flip flopping all over the place as we head through the next few days, and currently overnight we have colder air gradually sinking southwards. the skies will clear across scotland and there will be some wintry showers feeding in on that north—westerly wind. furthersouth feeding in on that north—westerly wind. further south in england and wales, very mild, temperate is not much below 11 celsius but we will see plenty of heavy rain, a very 5°99y see plenty of heavy rain, a very soggy start to the day tomorrow. in southern england and wales, the rain will gradually clear as we head through the afternoon but still cloud across much of kent and sussex and blustery conditions through the channel. the winter turns more north—westerly and we see more sunshine emerging for most. still wintry showers across the higher ground of scotland, temperatures dropping through the afternoon so it will feel colder. but it's not set to last because heading into wednesday, some milder conditions again taking hold from the west and

again taking hold from the west and a warm front will give us some rain to the north and west. further south and east, largely dry, a lot of cloud and some hill fog. more of a westerly wind but temperatures back up westerly wind but temperatures back up into double figures. it is not set to last again because another cold front brings a brisk north—westerly wind through thursday, very strong winds, gales in the north of scotland, 70—80 mph and went on i was seacoast and possibly a coastal search on north—east facing coso look at the forecast, may be blizzard —like conditions with wintry showers across scotland.— and that's bbc news at ten. on bbc one, it's time tojoin our colleagues for the news where you are. goodnight. this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines at the top of the hour, as newsday continues straight after hardtalk.

welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. 50 years ago, london had a terrible reputation forfood. generally, it was bland, stodgy and overcooked. but all of that has changed and now this city is a gastronomic destination. my guest today, michel roux, has played a big part in that transformation. his restaurant, le gavroche, has won michelin stars and international acclaim, but now, he's closing it. so is this the end of a golden age of master chefs and fine dining? michel roux, welcome to hardtalk. it is a great pleasure to be sitting in this restaurant,

one of the most famous in london, been in your family for the best part of six decades. the countdown to closure has begun. how do you feel about that? incredibly mixed emotions. it's... it's obviously happiness because there's light at the end of the tunnel, and by that, i mean not in a negative way, it's sort of... ..getting control of my life again. and then very, very sad emotions because it's the end of an era and it's... i also feel sad and emotional for all my team here, some of which, in fact, most of which i deem as family. and some of them, we've grown up together, basically. so very, very mixed emotions. and the last — the last week,

i know i am going to be a wreck. why? why are you shutting down? because you could fill every table here for the foreseeable future. everybody wants to come and eat here if they can afford it. so why shut it? yeah, i mean, the business is successful and it's... ..it is going well. reservations are very good — especially since i announced that we're closing, it's gone crazy. but there are many reasons. i mean, first of all, i'm getting on a bit. i'm 63 and i'm thinking, "what next? "do i want to sign up to another lease?" the lease is coming to an end. so it made me reflect and think. i've got now two wonderful grandchildren that i'm thinking, "well, i'd like to spend a little bit more time with them." there's also a tinge of regret that i didn't spend enough time with my daughter there. so i'm thinking i'd like to spend more time with my grandchildren.

but talking about family is interesting because this place was founded, albeit in a different location, by yourfather, albert, and your uncle, michel. it is your family treasure. and, it has to be said, the daughter you talk about is also now a top chef in london. ko many people would think, "why not hand it to her, "keep the roux name here?" yeah. so we've had that conversation with my daughter and son—in—law, because he's also an amazing chef, and they work together in their restaurant in notting hill. and we've had this conversation several times and they have decided to go their route — they want to do their own thing, which i 100% totally respect. and i actually sometimes wonder and think, "what would i be doing "if i'd done the same thing and said to my old man, �*no, dad, "�*i'm not interested'"? but you didn't. let's take it back to the beginning.

let's take it back to your dad and your uncle, michel. they came to london. i mean, they...they were in the food business because their parents were in the food business. yes. they saw an opportunity to leave france and set up here in the uk. and at the time, in the late 1960s, nobody could pretend that london was a gastronomic centre. quite the opposite. what do you think they saw in this city at the time that made it feel like an opportunity? yeah, well, dad fell in love with great britain back in the sort of, i would say, late �*50s. but i wonder why he fell in love with a country which at the time was famous for its stodgy, bland, over—boiled food, which to tastes in france, for example, was absolutely disgusting. yes, well... did he think he could change britain and its cuisine? this was his big break.

in 1960, he got thejob that set him up in the uk or in great britain, and that was to be private chef to the cazalet family, who were horse trainers to the queen mum, and that was in the fairlawne estate in kent. and he stayed seven years there and... ..that, i think, is where he saw that gap in the market. he realised that actually, yes, you're right, the food scene in great britain was dire. and in 1967, he went to see his boss... ..the cazalets, and said, "look, i'd like to open my own restaurant." and they were overjoyed, gave him £500. and you can imagine — £500 in �*67 was a lot of money as a going away present to set him up, and uncle, to open le gavroche. and i think they were very crafty, the two brothers — they saw a huge potential here and a huge gap in the market.

it took off. mmm. michelin stars arrived before too long. first one, then two. yeah. you trained in paris, but you decided to come back and, ultimately, you were trained and groomed to take over. do you think you changed, fundamentally changed, le gavroche from what had been set up by your dad and your uncle? no, and i think that's part of the reason of the success and the fact that we're still here today. i think it's key to stay true to your roots. so, you come here and it's unmistakably french. all the... ..or the vast majority of the menu is based on french classics, classic technique as well, although i have evolved it and so it's a lot lighter. we use a heck of a lot less cream and butter than my dad did, and the sauces are much lighter, the portions are more adapt.

it's less formal too. it's... yes, oh, gosh. one of the first things i changed was to drop the tie rule. so gentlemen no longer had to wear a tie. and i remember my old man being absolutely furious and saying, "this is ridiculous, we're going to lose business. "this is terrible." and it didn't. and then three or four years after that, i dropped the jacket rule as well. and he went barmy. i mean, he really did. he said, "that's it, it's the end." and i knew i'd won him over when he bowled in for dinner one day without his jacket on. they chuckle you may not need to wear a tie in here, but you certainly need to have a wallet... yes. ..that is fairly well—filled. if we look at the tasting menu, it runs into the hundreds of pounds, hundreds and hundreds of dollars. people still come, those that can afford it. but is it part of your decision to leave that maybe you're sick of feeding the rich and the ultra rich?

the rich and ultra rich, yes, they come here most definitely. and we certainly wouldn't be here if they didn't. but i would say the majority of people are not rich or ultra rich. they save up for a special occasion. and that's what makes it, ithink, special. when i come, go around the tables and i meet and greet and talk to every guest, you can tell and you can see, and actually some of the guests will actually say out loud, "we've been saving for this for x amount of time," sometimes years. mmm, mmm. and just as i say it, it's giving me goose bumps. i think that's wonderful, that's beautiful, that's incredible. and that they go away with memories for the rest of their lives. of course, the expectations are high when you're paying that much money, even for one of your signature classics, the souffle, you're still paying... what is the price of the souffle right now? it's £20 now, the cheese souffle, the souffle suissesse.

and by the way... so it's a bit of flour, egg, butter. it's over 20 quid. so getting on for $30. yeah. and it's got to be good. of course it is. so what i want to get to now is the degree to which your passion for food has to be utterly extreme. the perfectionism that you have had to train yourself with and develop over time. how extreme is it? it is extreme. it's very, very tough. that is part of the reason as well why i...i took time to reflect and think, "do i want to carry "on with that pressure?" because it is, it's notjust pressure of running a business and keeping the standard and the stars and making sure that everybody leaves here with fantastic memories. and it's not on a weekly basis, it's not on a daily basis, it's not on an hourly basis. it's every single plate of food that leaves the kitchen. and that pressure does get

to you after a while. you know, i've been at the helm now for 35 years, longer than my father was. 35 years of relentless pressure, some sleepless nights and just worrying and thinking. and every night when i go home, i think about the service and i think about every single plate. and i think, "could we have done better here? "how could we have done this better?" and, "was that really perfect?" so i'm constantly analysing that, and that pressure really does tell. you're called chef. some would say that the absolute top international chefs, such as yourself, are, in a way, tyrants. that, actually, the very fact of running a kitchen to that level of perfection turns you into somebody very difficult. yeah. do you think there's truth in that? i think there...there can be. there's still some dinosaurs out there.

and by that, i mean people that run their kitchens like tyrants. and i think... bullying is an issue in this industry. i think...it was. but as i said, there are still some dinosaurs out there. and it is something that has to be addressed, especially now, because we are, i say "we" as an industry, are incredibly short—staffed and we need to attract some more people in. and if our industry is being portrayed as... ..or our chefs are being portrayed as tyrants and as bullies, then we have to point them out and say, you know, "that's wrong." well, you don't have to look too far. i mean, you were mentor, in a sense, to one of the great, young — slightly younger than you — chefs in this country, marco pierre white. mmm. and marco wrote in his memoir that he had rages, that he had described his kitchen for a time as "my theatre of cruelty." mmm, yes. you worked very closely with him. and then rene redzepi, whom i have actually interviewed on this programme. he has described with honesty how he could explode into absolute rage with staff. have you, michel roux,

done that, too? as a young chef, when i took over from my father, i would describe myself as an angry chef, yes. and what was the...what was the worst it came to? expletives. rage, shouting. physical abuse? no, never. and that should never be tolerated. absolutely never. and... and i think back on those years and i think what an angry, bad person i was, which... ..at the time, i suppose... and that was the time that you were alluding to when marco first set up his restaurant. that's right. he was, you know, he was under extreme pressure as well. but there is no excuse for that, especially, especially now. and we run... ifeel we — i — run a good kitchen.

one of the pressures on you as a top chef is this — and you alluded to it earlier — this system of grading restaurants by michelin and their stars. and you have won michelin stars. right now, is this a...? two. two star. how much does that matter to you? it is a massive, massive pressure on chefs. these michelin stars are seen as the holy grail and their quest to achieve those stars. and i say to all young chefs starting out, you know, don't cook for the michelin guide. cook for your guests. get that right. make sure that your guests are happy and they come back and then you have a prosperous business. and if you get that right, then the plaudits will come and the michelin guide will come

and reward you. but i think a lot of chefs cook for their own ego. and it's just wrong. and you can see it, actually. when i go and eat out, i can see through the food and i can tell if the chef is just cooking for their own ego or if they're cooking for their guests. here we sit, surrounded by your tables. tonight they will be full, this place will be heaving. what does it make you feel when you see a customer who, when they receive their first plate of the evening, immediately gets their phone out and starts taking pictures and putting it on instagram? michel chuckles i—i can't really knock that because i do the same thing! they laugh but you see, i... what are we doing to food? yeah. is it art or is it something that, actually, is all about taste? first and foremost, food in great restaurants should be about the taste, and that i am 100% unequivocal about.

and it should be taste. because time and time again, and i'm sure you've been to some of these restaurants as well, where the food looks absolutely beautiful, so, so beautiful, you want to put it up on the wall and not taste it, and you go, "wow, this is great." and you're salivating and you take a spoonful of it and you go, "what does it taste of? "eh? "nothing." so style over substance. give me substance any time, any day of the week. so that's—that's important. but going back to the phone, i do it, but i do it for memories. i don't do it to post on instagram or anything, because i'm getting of a certain age that i forget. so i tolerate it. but if people do get their phone out too much, then we might have a little quiet word and say, "0i, eat whilst it's hot, please." let's get to something that is hitting notjust you in your business, but all restaurants right now, and that is a very tough economic climate.

mmm. and actually it's been a climate building for years. and perhaps you were knocked back and many others were, more than anything, by the covid pandemic. and ijust wonder, as you reflect now on what that meant to your business and many other restaurant businesses in this country and around the world, just how tough was it? it was incredibly tough. and i will never forget those days where i had to come in here to check the premises, obviously, for insurance reasons, and to make sure everything was all right and to come in to... because you shut down. for the first time in your family history with le gavroche, it shut its doors. you had to, of course. we had to. lockdown was lockdown. but to come in here... ..lights out, the smell of a stale restaurant, the dust everywhere made me weep. did it? and made me cry. i sat down over there on one of the banquettes and just put my head in my hands and just thought, "what the hell? "why, why, why?" and it was very, very tough.

and i was within sort of moments of saying, "well, i'm closing. "what's the point?" do you think, not so much here, because as you've said, you could fill this restaurant every night if you wanted to go on and on and on, but do you think for the industry as a whole, it actually hasn't truly properly recovered? because, of course, since then we've had a cost of living crisis, we've had energy costs spiralling, food prices spiralling. and if you look at the figures, the numbers of restaurants in london and across the united kingdom, which are closing their doors forever per year, is soaring right now. it is. restaurants and pubs. restaurants, pubs, clubs, etc. closures are happening all the time. and you're absolutely right. i mean, obviously, we came out of lockdown and there was a huge surge. but then there was the staffing crisis, there was obviously energy prices which went skyrocketing and there was no help for our businesses in energy prices or very, very little, and rent and rates still

skyrocketing and inflation. it made me laugh when you saw the headline at 10% when actually food inflation was nearer 20%, and itjust went on and on. and then let's not forget as well, a lot of restaurants, a lot of businesses had taken out loans that needed to be repaid. so it is very tough and i think there will be more closures, and it's a very, very difficult time. i really, really do think that the government could help the hospitality industry now. we need it now. we're one of the biggest employers, the hospitality industry in the uk. we bring in so much. people fly into to the uk, tourists, and they want to eat and they want to have great times. they want to spend their money with us. and the uk government at the moment is... ..not reacting.

i've got to ask you one very specific question. you've several times talked about the difficulties of hiring the right talented, professional staff. one issue may be because historically this industry — and it has to be said, your restaurant — hasn't paid people terribly well. in fact, going back to 2015, it was revealed that you here were actually, if you added up all the hours worked, were not paying people even the national minimum wage. yeah. how could you be asking your clients, your dining guests to pay bills of £200, £300 per meal, and yet not even pay your staff a living wage? that's correct. and that came down to me. i took the blame. i put my hand up and apologised. i took my eye off the ball and the people that were in place. we had systems, but... i apologised profusely and it was not intentional. there are systems now in place that means that this won't happen again and everybody that was owed money was paid, paid back.

right now, obviously, your wages are better because you say you learned a lesson, but right now, is it still really difficult to hire the right kind of people? yes. yes, incredibly difficult. and... and is that, sorry to interrupt, but ijust wonder, in your view, is that a direct result of brexit, as you see it? because you used to get many young, talented kitchen staff from europe. it's harder now. most definitely. it's a combination, i would say, of lockdown and brexit. i would say, if i were to put it in in percentage terms, i would say it's maybe 40% lockdown, 60% brexit. and by that, i mean lockdown has made a lot of people change theirjobs and realise that, actually, they can earn a living maybe delivering

for amazon or suchlike, and not having to work on the weekends or unsociable hours. but then brexit was the big, big spanner in the works. and that certainly, certainly hurt us in the hospitality industry, but notjust us. i mean, look at care industry, look at nursing, all of that. i want to end, because we're nearly out of time, i want to end with some thoughts from you about where your cooking goes from here and where the restaurant business goes from here. let me ask you this, do you feel that there's still room for innovation, for new approaches, new techniques in cooking, or given the immense diversity of tastes and foods and restaurants we have in a city like london now, are we sort of reaching peak foodieness? no, there's still more to come. i looked at my dad and i thought, "god, you're so old—fashioned."

you know, "there's better ways of doing this, "more, sort of lighter ways." and so i brought that to the restaurant, but still respecting, obviously, my french tradition, french heritage. and my daughter calls me a dinosaur now, so she's evolved as well. but when you go out... i think it's going to be constantly evolving. do you? when you go out today to a new restaurant, do you ever taste something that you think, "my god, i never "thought of doing that, that has blown my mind"? yes. and i think that's wonderful. and i think that that's why i love being a chef and i love this industry. it is because every day is different and there's... it is such a creative industry, or can be, and there are geniuses out there that can create and that will carry on innovating. and that excites me. i think it's wonderful.

yeah. final thought. you say the geniuses are out there, they'll carry on. you're not carrying on, you're quitting. and rene redzepi, you know, i went to noma to talk to him, he was winning, every year for a while, the best restaurant in the world award. he's closing noma and he says he's going to concentrate on his laboratory and food science, not on his restaurant. do you think we are coming to the end of a golden era of the sort of international elite restaurants? no, again, still not. there will always be a place for restaurants like rene�*s or like le gavroche. and i think it will always, always come... and it will always evolve. and by our very nature, chefs, we are inquisitive and we are innovative, and we're always seeking and looking for the next thing. so you're still going to be in a kitchen somewhere, just not this one. just not this one. the roux brand and the name le gavroche is carrying on. and we're going to take le gavroche on the road and we're going to be

doing some residencies, notjust in the uk, maybe all over the world. so just watch this space. michel roux, it has been a pleasure. thanks for being on hardtalk. thank you. good evening. monday was a pretty cloudy day for many, with some splashes of rain, but northern areas of the uk did get to see a little bit of brightness. that was the scene for a weather watcher in the highlands earlier on. now, as we look through the rest of this week, we will see further rain at times and it will become very windy. there is the chance that some of us will see a little bit of snow in the run—up to the christmas period.

now, this is the earlier satellite picture. you can see this pipeline of cloud streaming in from the atlantic. this is our next weathersystem, really. that will bring some quite heavy rain across parts of wales and england as we head through this evening and tonight, turning really wet, particularly through the second half of the night. northern england staying a little bit drier, and certainly for northern ireland and scotland, we'll see some clearer skies, a few showers blowing into the northwest of scotland, some of those wintry over higher ground. cold enough here for frost and some ice, mild further south where we start tuesday with clouds and outbreaks of heavy rain. that rain will trundle its way south eastwards through the day, so brighter skies will follow. a scattering of showers blowing in, particularly across the western side of scotland and into northern ireland. some of those showers wintry over high ground in scotland. it will be windy here. temperatures a little bit lower than they have been today — 5 degrees in lerwick and 10 degrees in london by the middle part of the afternoon. but into wednesday, we see another frontal system pushing in from the atlantic. this one is a warm front, and so it will reintroduce some milder conditions.

but with extensive cloud cover, it will be quite misty and murky in places, i suspect. bits and pieces of rain, it will be windy, but temperatures in many spots back up into double digits. and then we look ahead to thursday with a deep area of low pressure passing to the north of the uk. lots of isobars on this chart. it is going to be a very windy day indeed. and behind this cold front, we'll see some colder air returning — real see—saw conditions this week in terms of the feel of the weather. in the cold air, i think we'll see some snow showers across parts of scotland, even to relatively low levels in the north, where gales will combine with those snow showers to give blizzard conditions. further south, it stays mild, and so what falls from the sky will be rain, but it is going to be a windy day wherever you are. and then, looking towards christmas itself, it stays pretty unsettled. there will be rain at times and it may be cold enough, particularly in the north of the uk, for some snow here and there. bye— bye.

welcome to newsday, reporting

live from singapore, i'm mariko 0i. the headlines. as pressure grows for a ceasefire in gaza, intense negotiations at the un security council to agree a new resolution. in hong kong, the media tycoonjimmy lai has gone on trial facing charges of breaching national security. new covid variant is spreading fast across the world — cases soar in asia as singapore encourages people to wear masks. once again encourages people to wear masks. and hundreds of people are rescued from devastating floods in northeast australia. welcome to newsday.

negotiations are continuing at the united nations in new york