hello from new york and welcome to our talking movies martin scorsese special. i'm here in lower manhattan in the neighbourhood of little italy. in the 19505 and �*60s, it was home to martin scorsese, who is without any doubt, one of america's most celebrated film—makers. my name's tom... a0 years or so ago, prior to my move to live in new york, i was already a big scorsese fan. the director had made his mark with his defining films of the 19705 like mean streets... i'm gonna pay him next week. i'm gonna pay... ..taxi driver... you talking to me? ..and the soon to be released raging bull... there's no—one else around wants to fight me. they're all afraid. ..all three starring robert de niro. the collaboration with de niro persists to the present day, but he's also worked closely with leonardo dicaprio on many memorable movies... she is a prim—looking stargazer. ..gangs of new york... i'd check my pockets if i was you. cos i do believe she lifted your timepiece.

..and the aviator. we don't care about - money here, mr hughes. well, that's because you have it. ..the departed... think about it, hot shot. ..which brought scorsese his first best director oscar, and the wolf of wall street. i want you to deal with your problems by becoming rich. in all, he's made more than 45 features, often crime films, and won numerous accolades. it's a very impressive body of work. his films have been influenced by his italian—american background and by his catholicism. he nearly always features macho, posturing men and sometimes extreme violence. what i like about martin scorsese as a film—maker is that his films are about something. they have moral weight. also, he's incredibly skilled as a director. he has his hallmark use of rapid editing at times, use of slow motion and freeze frames and ingenious use of contemporary soundtracks.

when people first heard that you were making this film, they were surprised because they thought it was very different in terms of subject matter from your previous work. do you think it is a break in trend or are there commonalities between this film and your previous films? after writing the script, some friends of ours who read it said it's similar in theme. i did sit down to interview martin scorsese 30 years ago when he made the age of innocence. is there someone else? someone else? between you and me? what i've always liked about scorsese, in a way, is that he's an outsider. he's never really been part of the hollywood studio system. he's always made brilliant cinema, usually on his own terms. now, martin scorsese, at the age of 80, has made killers of the flower moon — his very first western... whose land is this? my land. ..a crime saga featuring once again his two favoured actors, dicaprio and de niro. the war hero has arrived. you've made a good choice coming back here. 0ne critic has described it

as a landmark motion picture achievement. i don't disagree. evil surrounds my heart. at its heart, killers of the flower moon, inspired by book, is about love and deceit. why did you come here? but perhaps more than anything else, it's about naked greed. money flows freely here now. i do love that money, sir. it's based on the true story of the orchestrated so—called reign of terror of the 1920s in oklahoma, in which more than 60 native americans were killed so white men could get their hands on the oil that lay beneath their land. there are many, so many hungry wolves. 0il had made the 0sage nation extremely wealthy. when this money started coming, we should have known it came - with something else. i met you on my red carpets... yes. ..and junkets over the years.

yes, i've seen you over the years, too. 0k. it's been a good way. yes. well, martin scorsese, a very big, warm welcome to talking movies. thank you. i saw your film, killers of the flower moon, and ifound it very, very powerful. why did you want to make it? well, i was really drawn to the story in the sense that... ..uh, one of my favourite genres is the western. we'd all be much better off if there wasn't a single gun left in this valley. a gun is as good or bad as the man using it. back in the �*aos and �*50s, i grew up watching westerns. growing up as an urban kid in the lower east side, living in tenements and not allowed to go near animals or run and play because...and do sports, because i had asthma... come back! ..the western opened up vistas for me in black and white, and in technicolor, etc. miller!

it was a fantasy land. what we could do is, do, three...two, one... but martin scorsese didn'tjust want to make a western. he also wanted to tell a story of historic injustice towards native americans, and ultimately he didn't want it to be a white saviour story. more than a0 roles in his film are played by 0sage actors. he had long known of their suffering. down in new york's little italy, round mulberry street - in lower manhattan, silence is the first rule of survival. i his little italy upbringing helped him understand the story. there was a great deal of street crime, organised crime, etc. pretty good area, pretty decent people. but there were a lot of people doing some bad things. and so i know that thinking, and i found it was the same thinking in this story. now you could take it from robbing somebody�*s store, mugging somebody, let's say, or take it to the point of wiping out an indigenous nation. there's a very little step that one could take. and so i wanted to immerse

myself in that world. well, look, i'm going to lay this out kind of, and then we're going to move it according to the drone. if you look at the history in hollywood and how it's portrayed native americans, do you really believe there's a lot of catching up to do? and in a way, i mean, your film does represent an effort to notjust tell this story from the white person's point of view. hollywood started working with the native americans, you know, thomas ince, demille — they made these silent films... john ford. they had real native americans acting in them. in one case, a film i like very much, directed by thomas ince, a two—reeler called the last of the line, in which sessue hayakawa plays the native american. they were still shifting and shuffling because he was a very big star at the time. right around the late �*20s and �*305, it changed and that became the box office stars portraying native americans. to talk of peace is not hard. to live it is very hard. there were attempts really by some

really interesting film—makers, delmer daves, mainly, and i think the key one was broken arrow, to understand the native american, the indigenous. and i think broken arrow was the first film i saw in beautiful technicolor actual rituals and cultural elements of the native american that was not necessarily warlike. there was devil's doorway by anthony mann. you're trying to say it's feeling for me. then i don't believe you. drumbeat by elmer daves. i came to talk peace. but you talk about killing. apache with burt lancaster... i'm the last real apache left in all this world. ..by robert aldrich. so these were all attempts to understand the native american. however, all the native americans are played byjeff chandler, burt lancaster, charles bronson, that sort of thing, in order to get the box office. that wasn't the case with your film? no, not at all. no. i said, no matter what happens, no matter what approach i take, we have to make sure it's ok with all these guys.

we have to go in there. i have to know who they are. and that's what happened. this chief geoff standing bear. we became good friends and we started going back and forth to oklahoma. and i became very, very friendly with many of the people there. many of them are in the film now. ijust love money. i love it as much as i love my wife. it is a period film in that it was set in oklahoma in the 19205, but in many ways it's about greedy white men doing terrible things to another race. do you think that has contemporary relevance in america today? that hasn't changed in america. it hasn't changed around the world. i mean, you're saying white, but there are others who do that too, in different parts of the world. in terms of america, the struggle is always there. the struggle is always there. the opportunity to make a change is there, too. the only thing is we have to know about it. we have to know about it. you can't hide it. you can't forbid people to read

books or see films or see play5 or hear certain mu5ic. you have to know about it. let me ask you, if i may, about another matter which i know is very close to your heart, and that's film preservation. why is it so important to your mind that we do make an effort to preserve old films and restore them wherever possible? i guess first thing that comes to mind is like saying why, why restore the vellum in bodleian library in oxford? i mean why hold, why con5erve these books? you know, the knowledge in the books, the picture it gives us of who we are or who we were, the good things, the shameful things. the5e can't be swept under the rug. we have to know. we have to be... we have to acknowledge it. cinema has a lot of that, there's no doubt. but also i've been, you know, for years, and i really do believe it is a great art form. in fact, scor5e5e has been a passionate advocate for film preservation and has founded 5everal organisations to that end. he has long been a fan

of the celebrated british film—making partnership of michael powell and emmerich pressburger. both directors died more than 30 years ago. scor5e5e has sought to preserve their films, among them the 19118, the red shoes... why do you want to dance? why do you want to live? ..with its themes of passion and obsession... you shall dance! the world shall follow. ..which had a huge impact on him. thelma schoonmaker, scor5e5e�*s long—time editor, was married to michael powell, co—director of the red shoes. she worked on the restoration. thelma worked laborious work on that. and digital really helped us on that, went back to the original negatives. but, you know, i saw the film when i was about eight years old, nine years old. the images were so palpable as if it was like taking a paintbrush and just bru5hing across the frame. but we're really struggling with the characters in this heightened hyper world of art and ballet particularly. the whole thing comes down

to at one point, she says, "i want to be a dancer." and he says, "well, why do you want to dance?" she says, "why do you want to live?" "why do you want to live?" art could be that way. and as a child, i thought of that all the time. can you live with that? if you could make art, good, bad or indifferent, can you live without it? what's the point of living without it? that's what you do. and so ultimately their lives are sacrificed for it. all of them, really. they're sacrificed by... the passion eat5 them up, just devour5 them, i should say. and the passion is up there on the screen, particularly in the ballet of the red shoes. 17, the whole movie stops for 17 minutes. these days, i mean, up to a certain point in time, you know, people then 5aw films where sequences would come on for 20 minutes in the dance sequence. but it started with red shoes, and it was ballet. it wasn't the american in paris dance. music: i got rhythm. that's later. and that was more modern dance. this is ballet.

it's different. martin scorsese has long been a very authentic voice in the movie bu5iness. he generally speaks his mind. and four years ago, in an interview with empire magazine which has been oft—quoted, he was asked what he thought of marvel superhero films, and he was quite forthright. he said, to him, they resembled a theme park and they really weren't cinema. well, those remark5 caused quite a stir. not only if you're not comfortable with marvel films, the whole digital revolution and the ascendancy of streaming seems to have left him very uncomfortable. now the revolution is so strong, it's at the point at which sound was invented. i mean, in that sense, with streaming. what d'you hear that from? with cgi. they're in it to make money. you make money by making picture5 people want to see.

higher, further, faster. that's always been the case, hasn't it? that's always been the case. but now the only ones they're making are franchises and things. and some of them may be very good, by the way. i'm just saying that that's not the only film, but that's what the studios are making. so what i'm saying is that the money there now is for the franchise, for the action film, and that's where it's going to stay. what is happening to me? and you don't seem to have a very high opinion of them. 0h, are you going back to what i said four years ago? yeah. just, you know, i've tried to. they're not for me, but i'm trying. as you get older, i'm trying to figure out where the hell to spend my time. i can't do it with them. i tried. i saw it. idid it. like, you know, i want to go, i want to find other things. you see what i'm saying? scor5e5e knows he and other film—makers are facing a changed land5cape. he has to contend with a viewing audience that's more than ever fragmented and politically polari5ed. also, in an age where there's

greater scrutiny about who's represented on screen and how, scor5e5e moved with care to tell the story of the 05age murders. he was determined that killers of the flower moon would give due weight to the indigenous character5. it's supposed to be a suicide... and in fact, the soul of his new epic doesn't belong to the white men portrayed by robert de niro and leonardo dicaprio, but to a native american woman played by lily gladstone. you know, you got nice colour skin. what colour would you say that is? my colour. the film obviously has male protagonists in it, but do you think that the soul of your movie does belong to a woman in a way, lily gladstone? there's no doubt. lily gladstone really is the heart of it. that's what leo said to me on one point. we were trying to work this script for two to three years and we got hit with covid too, as everyone else did. we didn't know if we were going to make the film, whether we were going to live or die. and if we were to proceed with the project the way

it was constructed by david grann in the book in an extraordinary way, it would become like a police procedural. and i like watching those films, but i don't know if i can do them. and i tried to change and tried to make it and then finally, leo dicaprio at one point, because he was going to play tom white... i was sent down from washington dc to see about these murders. ..and at one point he came to me and said, where's the heart of the picture? i said, her. he said, what if i play ernest? 0k... i said, we've tried everything else. that's how you are. i don't know what you said, but it must've been indian for " handsome devil". they laugh. the real insidious and sinister nature is the love relationship. i work with my uncle. you're scared of him. because that's the ultimate trust and betrayal. does he really intend to kill her? i don't know. i think he's purely a weakling. you going to make

trouble, make it big. how much more his uncle could have forced him to pursue it. we decided to go ahead, make him ernest, work with lily and create this relationship based on what we could put together from family members who were still alive who ernest wa5. but she is the one. and as ellen lewi5 just showed me her in certain women. a kelly reichardt film. ijust knew if i didn't start driving i wasn't going to see you again. i didn't want that. and i saw that face and i saw what was going on with her eyes. and i said, that's the one here. she's really interesting. 0ne zoom call. because of covid, we still couldn't fly around. and immediately i understood the intelligence and the heart that she had and the activism of her, but also the understanding of the love story. you don't operate in a vacuum. you are a director in contemporary america. this country is more polarised politically than ever. do you feel that film can be a unifying force at all?

i'm not sure. i hope it can. it still is a form of communication. the problem, and i may be wrong on this, but the problem i see, it's fragmented, that films are made fora certain group, another group, another group. indies are indie5, films made for different gender, different sexuality, etc. well, they should be films all together, you know? yes, you can find certain things you like in the specific categories, but one shouldn't... what it i5 is that if those films are made for a good price and they bring back a certain amount of money, fine. it's almost like a token situation i'm concerned about. yes, what are they complaining about? tho5e pictures are made. well, no, we want them bigger. we want more audiences to see them. the kid doesn't look like a gang5ter yet. he has to look... his shoes have got to be shined. right. i think he should wear a shirt and tie. chri5ty, i want you to be here. martin scorsese has at times been

a directorfor hire, but he's fought to make movies on his own terms and it's usually paid off, at least in terms of artistic integrity. killers of the flower moon became a big budget undertaking. it was bankrolled by apple 0riginal film5 to the tune of $200 million. one of the things i found really rewarding about killers of the flower moon is that there was evidence of a single artistic vision, your vision coming through, hopefully not interfered with on screen, you know, i also found that this year, perhaps with barbie and greta gerwig'5 vision or christopher nolan and 0ppenheimer, i mean, how hard is it to make that kind of a film nowaday5 where your vision doe5 prevail? the key there is the support from the financing. in the case of apple, for example, once i gave them the idea of how we wanted to approach the story and what we wanted to do, they were open to me exploring every aspect. i kept changing it as we went along, and i kept adding more and more

of the rituals and the cultural aspects of the 05age. i never felt that there were people looking over my shoulder. you could say, well, it's because of who you are. yeah, but i'm 80 years old now. all right. so now i was able to make a picture with nobody looking over my shoulder, in a sense. if they were, they were very quiet. so that they were always supporting to get what i wanted, you know, on screen. let me ask you, you mentioned getting older. i mean, actually, i'm only ten years behind you. i'm 70. oh, my... i remember you when you had no weight in the moustache. white in the moustache. 0k, well, yeah, that's true. look at this. yeah, you look pretty good, let me tell you. but how does getting older affect the kinds of storytelling that you want to do as a film—maker? are there films that you feel you've got to do before it's too late? i know. and the funny thing is, i have a few i really want to do.

i hope i can make it. it comes down to what's in the frame, where to place that camera, and where to spend whatever time is left to your life telling a story. is it worth the time? well, that's all from little italy and our talking movies martin scorsese special. we're going to leave you with one of my favourite moments of new york martin scorsese cinema. it comes from the 1990 film goodfellas, and it's a highly orchestrated three—minute tracking shot that begins outside the old new york copacabana nightclub. it really is wondrou5 cinema. i'll see you later. thanks. what are you doing? you're leaving your car? he watches the car for me. let me just finish now by telling you that, you know, i remember your work or film—maker's work by kind of moments. and there's a great moment in goodfellas when ray liotta takes lorraine bracco into the copacabana. and it's a tracking shot. it's an incredible shot. was that... i kind of cry when i watch that. was that hard to orchestrate?

well, yes. however, we used the real copa. we used the real lobby and back area and through the kitchen. we would go in in rehearsal and say, i need this here, i need this here, i need this here. and i had the main actors. i had ray and lorraine and even the real maitre d' of the copa who as soon as he sees him slips him money, gets him the table. you pan over and the table comes by. when i used to go to the copa, that's what it was. you know, we always thought we had great ringside seats to see the show. and just before the show started, three or four tables would fly in the air. right in front of you, big wise guys would come and sit in front of you. they laugh. you couldn't see a thing and you couldn't say anything. so, they did a beautifuljob. well, it was a really magical moment. look, martin scorsese, thank you so much for doing this interview. i really appreciate it. thank you. good to see you again.

hello, the storm brought disruption up hello, the storm brought disruption up and down the country with gales, heavy snow across scotland that led to road closures and look flooding in places. thursday promises to be a little quieter but it is still going to stay pretty windy with gales in places and sunshine and blustery showers. we could see further disruption in some parts of north—west england, north west wales with further gales and there will be further snowfall on the scottish hills. some of the showers could merge together to produce longer spells of snow. low pressure sticks close by, plenty of isobars on the chart for thursday. not as windy as wednesday but still a blustery day to come for all areas. the strongest winds around west wales. fans of shower merging together to produce

longer spells of rain, they could be wintry with snow over the scottish hills. these wind gusts again in excess of 50 miles an hour in places particularly southern and western areas. england and wales, perhaps double figure values again. further cultic north, but when you factor in the wind it will not feel like this temperature suggests. friday, low pressure city to the north—east of scotland, that will bring another day of gales and snow showers which could give rise to some lizard conditions. this band of rain could have a little bit of wintry nest as colder air sinks its way southwards but in southern britain we will see sunshine and showers. temperatures may be 11 degrees in london, for most single digits and it will fill chilly on friday. it is saturday we elected the atlantic, another deep area of low pressure, it was slowly pushing through the day. saturday starts chilly with some early brightness but soon wet and windy weather will spread northwards, bumping into the cold air, turning

into snow. the north pennines, across scotland, maybe even down to the lower levels. that in the strong wind, we could look at a blizzard. those wind gusts perhaps reaching 50 or 60 miles an hour through central and southern areas, especially close to the coast and a colder day to come. it could make ten or 11 across the south, single digits at most. as of saturday into sunday, which is new year's eve, this area of low pressure will become slow moving. sitting pretty much on top of the uk, and other blustery day, the strongest of the winds across southern britain, socially through the channel we could be looking at 60 miles an hour at exposure. plenty of showers with a wintry element across central and northern areas, across central and northern areas, across scotland. gusty winds across the south could lead to some destruction, further snowfall across the north and a chilly day to come for all. that is the new year's eve setup. it does look like as a push into the early part of january, we

could see perhaps some brief quieter spells at times, but i think on the face of it it looks like it is going to stay unsettled with further areas of low pressure moving in and bringing spells of wet and windy weather. we will be on the colder side of the jet for much of the early part ofjanuary, side of the jet for much of the early part of january, certainly across central and northern areas, as you can see here. another set of selected the first week of january 2024 with wet and windy weather followed by sunshine and showers, and there will always be a wintry element to the showers, especially across northern areas as it will stay quite chilly stop see you later.

live from london. this is bbc news. israel expands its operations in central gaza... in his first tv interview since the war began, the palestinian leader warns the region could implode. translation: what's happening in the palestinian territories - is far beyond a disaster and far more than a genocide. the palestinians have never seen anything like this. danish shipping company maersk says it's prepared to resume sailing through the red sea, despite the threat of attack.

downing street says the uk's chancellor, jeremy hunt, will deliver his spring budget on the sixth of march. and there is severe travel disruption across the uk — storm gerrit is causing strong winds, rain and snow to some parts of scotland. hello i'm christian fraser. starting on the list on the israel gaza war and the we start with the latest on the israel—gaza war... and israel's military says it is expanding its ground offensive in the centre of gaza. the israel defense forces have released this video which they say shows elite ground troops in action in the gaza strip. israeli military officials say they have carried out strikes from the air, ground and sea against at least 200 hamas targets in the past 24 hours. the hamas—run health ministry says more than 21,000 people have been killed in gaza since the seventh of october. israeli military operations

are now focussed on the centre of the gaza strip —