tv Verified Live BBC News January 10, 2024 5:00pm-5:31pm GMT
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we'll have reaction to that announcement — from one former postmaster — who was forced into bankruptcy. i'd like, you know, to get to the end of this, really, and sticking plasters are, whilst appreciated, you know, i just feel as though we're not moving forward. we'll be speaking live to the labour mp who has spent years campaigning forjustice on this issue. ecuador�*s president declares war on armed gangs — after gunmen storm a television station, live on—air. and the us's top diplomat says — there will be consequences if attacks by iran—backed houthi rebels on shipping in the red sea continue.
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it's a scandal which has been years in the making — and which made criminals of hundreds of innocent men and women across the uk — but now it seems the post office horizon software cases could finally be resolved. a faulty it systems are just a money was being stolen. despite the truth coming a faulty it systems are just a money was being stolen. despite the truth coming to a faulty it systems are just a money was being stolen. despite the truth coming to light a faulty it systems are just a money was being stolen. despite the truth coming to light several a faulty it systems are just a money was being stolen. despite the truth coming to light several years a faulty it systems are just a money was being stolen. despite the truth coming to light several years ago many have not yet been exonerated or had compensation paid. the issue came to the fore again in the last week after a story was dramatised on tv and today at prime minister's questions, rishi sunak, and as the government is taking action. today, i can announce that we will introduce new primary legislation to make sure that those convicted as a result of the horizon scandal are swiftly exonerated and compensated. we will also introduce a new upfront payment of £75,000 for the vital glo group of postmasters.
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and can i thank my honourable friend, the memberfor thirsk and malton, for all his hard work on this issue? he will set out more details to the house shortly. we will make sure that the truth comes to light, we right the wrongs of the past, and the victims get the justice they deserve. that was the prime minister in the house of commons if you hours ago. lee castleton was left bankrupt after his battle with the post office — and his story features prominently in the tv drama that's propelled this into the spotlight. he welcomed the prime minister's annoucement. i asked him to talk us through how he came to be facing prosecution for a crime which he simply hadn't committed. no, not at all. i thought that potentially i was doing something wrong, or that i'd missed something or whatever. but when it repeats itself and occurs repeatedly then you start to look at things
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and a different way. ijust felt as though no matter how many times i reached out, which i reached over 12 weeks 91 times, i was just kind of lost in the system and no—one seemed to take hold of it. ijust got bounced around. and it became absolutely apparent to me that there was something very wrong. what was the post office's approach? you mentioned there, you called them 91 times, the numbers, they were getting bigger and bigger so when you approached them — give me a sense of what they said to you? well, initially, it was about whether i'd done something wrong, so they would go over the balance, or the procedure to balance, each time, which we would quite happily do, but we couldn't find anything that was sort of wrong. and the one thing that stood out the whole time is, we were having issues, screen freezes and things that you would have to do twice, you know, payments and things, and itjust didn't seem right. and as more and more of these things occurred, it got more and more fraught
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and became more of an argument between one side and the other. and i think once relationships like that break down it becomes very difficult. and over the 12—week period it became very fractious and obviously went on to be even more fractious in the high court when i really learned what power can do. but... and in terms of what power can do, you had a deficit, i think, by the time they took a civil case against you, of about £25,000, but the costs that you had to pay as a result of that civil case being brought against you, tell viewers what that amount was, because it's staggering? yeah, it was staggering to me at the time as well, it's £321,000. and if you put that into the thought process, i was actually representing myself by that time, i'd completely run out of money. the post office were totally aware of the situation. they knew that in no uncertain terms, no matter what the case was,
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i was not going to be able to pay those kinds of costs anyway. even the judge prior to the hearing told them that it was going to be thank a very difficult route to take to recoup anything and they were not interested at all, they just wanted to go ahead and press ahead. and so hearing that £321,000 worth of costs were awarded against me was devastating and it led to my bankruptcy. yes, you had to become bankrupt. give me an idea of the impact it had on yourfamily, your children, your wife and, more importantly, how the local community treated you ? so, we were living in a new, small fishing town in east yorkshire, very close to where we were both born. and i'd been a stockbroker for two years prior, and wasn't a very good one, to be fair. and we thought that this was a great
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way to cement our life in the north. and we owned our house completely, we had no mortgage or anything at the age of 35 and we decided to invest in a post office. little did i know that that would lead to completely being ostracised in the small town, people abusing us in the streets as being thieves, particularly my children being bullied. and this led on to all kinds of mental issues, anxiety for my wife which lead to seizures and epilepsy and for my daughter, bless her, being the oldest of two children, she suffered at school and she was spat at previously by a boy because his parents couldn't get their money from the post office any more because it was closed. and it led on to an eating
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disorder for my daughter, which lasted, she's 28 now, and thankfully recovered but it lasted ten years at least, and as a parent, it's very, very difficult to take. it is devastating, every single aspect. and when you stack it up, all the things that have happened to you and your family, how do you even begin to try to work out what sort of compensation is due to you? and what will it mean if the judgment against you is actually overturned, in whatever way that they bring forward? well, myjudgment is a civil judgment, it was heard in the high court. and it's still not set aside, it still stands as a record of the court. that is actually probably a little bit to do with my fault as well, because i have a particular trust issue in setting that aside. and i know post office would like to say that aside and i'm sure that we can work that out and do something with that.
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the criminalised people, the people that went through terrible, terrible traumas in very similar of not worse circumstances than my family, are now looking to have those exonerations pushed and moved forward as a batch. but one of the things that's been announced that really concerns me is the fact that the minister, kevin hollinrake, has mentioned the fact that some of these people will be guilty, but they will be all asked to sign a document to say that they committed no offence. and i worry about that. i think having talked to many of my friends who were victims of this, to say that some of the people were guilty, if you were in a room of a 100 people and someone said that two of them were thieves, how would you react to the other 98? and i find that really, really difficult. i don't understand why that caveat needs to be there. i don't understand why we've got into this situation and i don't
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understand why individuals can't be treated properly. live to westminster where we can speak kevanjones, the labour mp who has been campaigning forjustice for years and now sits on the compensation board. thank you so much for being here life on the programme. i know the conversation board were sitting this afternoon so will come to that in a moment but your reaction festival to what we heard earlier from moment but your reaction festival to what we heard earlierfrom rishi sunak? it what we heard earlier from rishi sunak? , _, ., ., sunak? it is welcome today that we have not a sunak? it is welcome today that we have got a commitment _ sunak? it is welcome today that we have got a commitment to - sunak? it is welcome today that we have got a commitment to overturn these convictions. the advisory board wrote to the justice these convictions. the advisory board wrote to thejustice secretary in december last year saying that we wish to have these overturned and we now need to work through the detail of how we are going to do that in the legislation. in of how we are going to do that in the legislation.— the legislation. in terms of that meetin: the legislation. in terms of that meeting are — the legislation. in terms of that meeting are referred _ the legislation. in terms of that meeting are referred to, - the legislation. in terms of that meeting are referred to, i - the legislation. in terms of that - meeting are referred to, i assumed it happened, where any concrete
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decisions made?— it happened, where any concrete decisions made? ~ . ., ., decisions made? what we have done, we have agreed _ decisions made? what we have done, we have agreed the _ decisions made? what we have done, we have agreed the framework- decisions made? what we have done, we have agreed the framework in - we have agreed the framework in terms of the parameters and what we need to know decide... civil servants and lawyers are going to have to frame the legislation and we are going to come back to review it and we are with the government to get the legislation and i think we will have all—party support. you will have all-party support. you were listening _ will have all-party support. you were listening to _ will have all— party support. you were listening to that interview just now with lee castleton, he described the financial impact, the bankruptcy, the fact you have to pay costs of over £300,000, he was ostracised by the community, the impact on his children and his wife, how do you even begin to calculate how do you even begin to calculate how to compensate for that? we have three schemes — how to compensate for that? we have three schemes in _ how to compensate for that? we have three schemes in place, _ how to compensate for that? we have three schemes in place, we _ how to compensate for that? we have three schemes in place, we are - three schemes in place, we are working through those. the point about this is that is what is so good about the drama, it puts people likely at the centre of what is a
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very complex story. in these's case, what it showed was that notjust the computer system was wrong but the post office weaponised the legal system against him. likewise they did it when the group action took place when they spent over £100 million of taxpayers money to defend the indefensible. again using the power that they had monetarily to crush these people. that is the reason why these convictions need to be overturned. because it is not just that the system was wrong but the way in which the post office used the legal system against them. exactly on that point, you made the point right now that they spent millions of pounds pursuing these bogus cases, in terms of getting that money back, is there any hope
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of that? also for fujitsu who introduced this flawed system. william williams is doing a fantasticjob getting to the truth. what we need to do is ensure that all of the facts come out. fujitsu have a lot to answer to, it has amazed me this week that they have been completely silent but clearly they have a role to play in this and they have a role to play in this and they need to be able to count. to clarify that point, i know we have got stages to go through, but he would like to see at some stage in the future fujitsu actually paying part of the compensation bill because even since we knew all of these facts they have received new public contracts from the government haven't they? yes public contracts from the government haven't they?— haven't they? yes they have and i don't think _ haven't they? yes they have and i don't think they _ haven't they? yes they have and i don't think they should _ haven't they? yes they have and i don't think they should be - haven't they? yes they have and i don't think they should be given l haven't they? yes they have and i i don't think they should be given any further contracts until they tell the truth about their role in this
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scandal. they have got to be able to count and there are some individuals who have to be personally held to account and i think their silence this week has been a disgrace and hiding behind the inquiry is not acceptable. hiding behind the inquiry is not acceptable-— hiding behind the inquiry is not acceptable. hiding behind the inquiry is not acce table. ., ., ., acceptable. you will have heard the talk about his _ acceptable. you will have heard the talk about his concern _ acceptable. you will have heard the talk about his concern about - acceptable. you will have heard the | talk about his concern about signing a document that accepts that some people are guilty of fraud. it was interesting though listening to ken mcdonald, the former director of public prosecutions, who was talking about this blanket legislation that might be introduced. describing it as unprecedented but saying what we have here is parliament seizing the right from the courts to say who is guilty or not guilty. the problem is that once that dam is burst, once it has happened, who can say how that process might be used in the future to... do you share that concern?
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when you look at the numbers is this the only obvious path out? i when you look at the numbers is this the only obvious path out?— the only obvious path out? i respect can mcdonald's _ the only obvious path out? i respect can mcdonald's service _ the only obvious path out? i respect can mcdonald's service to _ the only obvious path out? i respect can mcdonald's service to this - can mcdonald's service to this country and his expertise but the problem with this case is we have got 927 cases, most people haven't come forward and the reason for that is that they are so damaged. we also have a situation where, the other thing is that we should look at each individual case but when you have got cases that have been destroyed by the post office the evidence isn't there. i've had people ringing me this week who have had convictions and when you ask them why they haven't come forward so far even with the publicity they say because we are completely broken, we don't want to go anywhere near a court. i accept that what ken is saying in that it is unprecedented but i'm thinking it might be messy
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around the edges but the only way we can getjustice for around the edges but the only way we can get justice for these individuals... can getjustice for these individuals. . ._ can getjustice for these individuals... ., ., individuals... final thought, we have seen _ individuals... final thought, we have seen politicians _ individuals... final thought, we have seen politicians working . individuals... finalthought, we| have seen politicians working at breakneck speed, after a tv drama. in terms of accountability, that can't be right can it?— in terms of accountability, that can't be right can it? some of us have been _ can't be right can it? some of us have been at— can't be right can it? some of us have been at this, _ can't be right can it? some of us have been at this, not _ can't be right can it? some of us have been at this, notjust - can't be right can it? some of us| have been at this, notjust myself but many others members of parliament have been raising this for quite a few years now, but the drama... what the drama did i think, it isa drama... what the drama did i think, it is a technical subject when you get into the rabbit holes of this system but what it did, it actually told a human story about people likely and no one i don't think time not to be moved by the fact that the full weight of the state and using the legal system crush these people. they knew what they were doing was
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wrong. they knew what they were doing was wronu. , ., ,. , they knew what they were doing was wron. , ., ,. , wrong. they have described as the bi est wrong. they have described as the biggest miscarriage _ wrong. they have described as the biggest miscarriage of— wrong. they have described as the biggest miscarriage ofjustice - wrong. they have described as the biggest miscarriage ofjustice in i biggest miscarriage ofjustice in this country. thank you for taking time to speak to a slide from westminster on today's menu thank you. around the world and across the uk. this is bbc news. let's look at some other stories making news. the london to birmingham truncated part of the railway could cost £66 billion loan. the hs2 limited executive chair said the reason for increase was original projects being too low, changes of scope, and inflation. the parents of a british tourist who died after a helicopter crash in the grand canyon received a £79 million payout. he was one of five britons including his new wife who died after the aircraft crashed
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and burst into flames in fabry 2018. a lawsuit brought by his parents said he could have survived if the helicopter had been fitted with systems to help prevent a fire. the actor stephen fry has called for an end of the use of real fur in the bearskin caps worn by the kings guards. he is backing a full warfare campaign asking for it to be made with artificialfur. you're live with bbc news. the head of ecuador�*s armed forces — has ruled out any negotiations with the criminals behind a wave of violence in the country. the military has been authorised by the president, daniel n'boa, to "neutralise" 22 armed groups. he said ecuador was facing an internal armed conflict. on tuesday night, gunmen stormed a television studio and threatened staff live on air. the men, wearing balaclavas, burst into the studio,
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taking severaljournalists and staff members hostage. the police say, the attack will be treated as an act of terrorism and 13 men have been arrested. schools have been temporarily closed, while the peruvian government has deployed police to its border with ecuador. live now to our south america correspondent ione wells. be president in ecuador has called for these criminal gangs to be neutralised after a series of attacks in the country in the last couple of days. the scenes on tuesday night shocked the nation but have also shocked government internationally. they were threatening staff at gunpoint. the police in ecuador say that 13 people have been rested and at a number of weapons but also vehicles are being seized in relation to the attack. this came after days of violence in
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the country starting with the president announcing a state of emergency on monday. that was in response to one of the countries highest profile gang leaders apparently escaping from prison which led to violence breaking out of presence around the country. since that state of emergency was announced they have been a series of attacks in the country including explosions in the streets but also attacks on police officers. they have been according to police in ecuador to policeman killed but also a number of policeman kidnapped as well. the president has announced further action and ordered military and police to try and crack down on the criminal gangs over the violence that has happened over the last few days but people in ecuador living in fear at the moment as he finds continue to escalate.
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the uk defence secretary said it was the largest such attack yet on the british have said enough is enough. us central command is so they were shot down with no injuries adding that it was the 26 attack by houthis since mid november. a houthi spokesman said they were targeting an american ship that was providing support to israel. mr blinken has also been in bahrain. this is some of what he had to say to journalists at the airport there. we are here in bahrain as part of what has been an intensive diplomatic push across the region. bahrain is a critical partner for the united states and i want
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makes important that we respond when we see the violence coming from the houthis. they are been hundreds of attacks now since november on shipping in the red sea affecting more than a0 countries tied to ships from a0 countries. these attacks have been aided by iran with technology and equipment and intelligence and information and they are having a real—life impact on people. what has happened because of these houthi attacks is that thousands of ships have had to divert and take longer routes, pay former insurance, and that gets translated into high prices for everything from fuel to medicine to food. it is disrupting the supply chain so it is having a real impact on people around the world.
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the state, and said that mr blinken stressed the route to a palestinian state must be the solution to the conflict. it's really. the military says it has hit a further 150 targets and killed dozens of targets in the past 2a hours. the hamas run military says they were another hundred and a7 people have been killed in that time. in a sign of the desperation in their hundreds of people have besieged trucks carrying flower and canned food into gaza city. the refugee agency says now 2 million people are reliant on aid. let's get an overview of all of the latest
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developments today — with our correspondent in beirut, hugo bachega. let us start with those attacks, we are approaching the moment that americans and others will take significant action here.- significant action here. exactly matthew, i— significant action here. exactly matthew, i think— significant action here. exactly matthew, | think that - significant action here. exactly matthew, i think that antony l significant action here. exactly - matthew, i think that antony blinken was clear when he spoke about the attacks that are happening in the red sea. attacks that have been carried out by the houthis in yemen. he said that if those attacks don't stop there will be consequences and again he said that iran needed to stop the support that it is giving to the houthis and that these attacks are needed to stop. i think we had a very similar message from the uk defence secretary who said that he had no doubt that iran was heavily involved in those attacks. he said that the iranian authorities were coordinating the attacks and
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that iran was the eyes and ears of the houthis by providing intelligence and information that has allowed the houthis to carry out those attacks. we heard that last week there was this statement from more than a dozen countries including the us and the uk saying that the houthis would suffer the consequences from those attacks. so i think today they were very strong words from the americans and also from the uk defence secretary essentially indicating that there could be military operations targeting houthi positions in yemen if those attacks don't stop. we targeting houthi positions in yemen if those attacks don't stop.- if those attacks don't stop. we only not a if those attacks don't stop. we only got a minute _ if those attacks don't stop. we only got a minute left, _ if those attacks don't stop. we only got a minute left, give _ if those attacks don't stop. we only got a minute left, give me - if those attacks don't stop. we only got a minute left, give me the - got a minute left, give me the latest on the ground from gaza? so latest on the ground from gaza? sr those latest on the ground from gaza? 5r those attacks continue. the military offensive continues in gaza with rafah in the south being heavily
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bombarded and the local authorities in gaza saying that more than hundred a0 people were killed as a result of those attacks in the last 2a hours. attacks that happen as antony blinken continues his visit to the middle east.— antony blinken continues his visit to the middle east. thank you very much for giving — to the middle east. thank you very much for giving us _ to the middle east. thank you very much for giving us that _ to the middle east. thank you very| much for giving us that assessment life for us there in beirut. i am back with more injust life for us there in beirut. i am back with more in just a life for us there in beirut. i am back with more injust a moment life for us there in beirut. i am back with more in just a moment or two. don't go away. hello there. it's been another very cold day wherever you are, whether you've had sunshine and whether you've had clouds and it looks pretty similar for the next few days, could see a bit more cloud around. generally, it will stay dry
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thanks to high pressure. and there will be some sunshine around, particularly towards southern and western areas. this area of high pressure has been feeding in quite a bit of cloud to eastern scotland, also eastern parts of england, the odd patch of drizzle at times too. the breeze is still a feature along north sea coast, but not as strong across southern areas as we head through this evening and overnight where we have the clear skies, it's going to be a cold one. central northern western scotland, southern england could be down to —3 to —5 celsius here, but a little less cold where we have the cloud. so tomorrow then we start off with some cloud across some eastern areas. again, eastern england seeing most of that cloud, it could run a little bit further southwards into south east england into the afternoon. so the rest of the sunshine towards this southwest corner, maybe northern ireland and plenty of sunshine across scotland after a cold start there with some early mist and fog. temperatures maybe up a degree, eight degrees, but it certainly won't feel like that. then as we move through thursday nights, we see plenty of cloud feeding into england and wales, clearer spells across scotland, northern ireland. so it's here where we'll see the lowest. the temperatures could be down to minus seven celsius. and there's also a threat of some dense fog patches developing
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as the winds will be lighter here, but less cold further south where we have the cloud area of high pressure shifts a little bit a bit further westwards. it does allow a lot of cloud around for central, southern and eastern parts of the country. certainly rather cloudy for england. wales could be quite gloomy all day in places best the sunshine scotland, maybe northern ireland, far north of england later in the day, maybe parts of wales too. but cold here after the very cold start, a little less cold further south and east because of more cloud cover. then as we head into the weekend, although southern areas will see quite a bit of sunshine, we'll start to open the floodgate to an arctic northerly and that will start to feed in plenty of snow showers to the northern half of scotland. accumulations really mounting up by the end of the weekend here, but it'll be largely dry, i think cold with some sunshine across most central and southern parts of the country. we hold onto the cold weather into next week as well. further snow showers in the north and there's just the chance of some more widespread snow developing across central and southern areas around the middle part of the week.
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they will cut prices by 7% and — 80 years after d—day — we speak to the woman who helped map the beaches for the normandy landings. all of those stories coming up in a moment. all of those stories coming up in a moment. now for sport and for a full round up, from the bbc sport centre. hello from the bbc sport centre we'll start with football and and fulham travel to liverpool laterfor the first—leg of their league cup semi final. it's the first time the visitors, fulham, have got to this stage of the competition. their manager, marco silva, says making the final would be a huge achievement. if liverpool go on to win the trophy, it would be for a record tenth time. assistant manager pep linders says they're keen to get to wembley. when we're young we want to place the most iconic stadiums in the world in wembley is one of them. it has so much history and so many memories. we want to go there. i
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