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tv   Out of the Shadows  BBC News  June 4, 2024 3:30am-4:01am BST

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but i have to complete the term and say i'm a revolutionary. a march in milan for a far—right student killed almost 50 years ago by the far—left. you're seeing things in these recent years that are very similar to what happened at the beginning of the regime. the years of violent clashes between fascists and anti—fascists have gone, but the words and the polarisation live on. being anti—fascism in italy means he a violent person who shut the door to all others. competing narratives in the country that created fascism... the mussolini calendar.
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you said this is the most sold calendar in italy? ..and still allows its sympathisers. as it draws to a close, the finale... ..with a chilling throwback to italy's dictatorship decades. all: presente! presente! these kinds of demonstrations with the fascist salutes happen across the country year in, year out. the state allows them to take place and society somehow seems to tolerate them. i want to find out why, and why some of the images associated with the dark chapters of italy's past still infuse the present. presente!
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for the hardcore believers, a return to where it — or rather he — began. the small town of predappio in north—east italy, the birthplace of benito mussolini, the country's fascist dictator, assassinated in 1945 after a ruthless 20—year rule. every year on the anniversary of his death, the faithful gather to honour him. not for them the established narrative of his reign of terror. down the road, mussolini merch. from the traditional to the tacky, an extraordinary world of dictatorship kitsch. can you imagine an equivalent place existing in germany selling hitler and nazi paraphernalia? it just wouldn't happen. this is extraordinary. it's mussolini marketing,
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and it sells. then it begins. part funeral procession, part military parade. a pilgrimage to his resting place. bell tolls. they're called to attention. and then silence for their victim. they file in towards his tomb. no. we're not welcome.
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archive: in milan, mussolini. made an important statement... it's a salute deriving from ancient rome, adopted by the fascists and passed on to the nazis. benito mussolini, nicknamed "il duce" or "the leader", swept to power in 1922, beginning two decades of totalitarian rule marked by a brutal repression of opponents, concentration camps and invasions abroad. he came by armoured train for the meeting with signor mussolini. anti—semitic laws persecuted jews, worsening after italy's
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wartime alliance with hitler's germany. ..hisjourney from germany, unless he wanted something. after the war, a neo—fascist party was allowed to form and figures from the mussolini era filled state institutions. the party remained sidelined until silvio berlusconi brought it into his coalition, legitimising the extreme. today, the blackshirt salutes fill various yearly tributes. all: presente! they say it's historical commemoration. critics call it glorification of past crimes. all: presente!
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italy's post—war constitution has one article that bans reforming the fascist party. the subsequent so—called scelba law forbids groups pursuing the same anti—democratic aims, glorifying fascism, using violence to do so, or promoting the suppression of freedom. but it's only been used twice to dissolve fringe movements, and it leaves it up to judges to decide whether acts like the salute are a crime. many think the law could've been used after this — protests over covid
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restrictions that attacked italy's main trade union. it was seen as out of the fascist playbook, since the unions were targeted under mussolini. forza nuova took part that day — a fringe, hard—right party still not banned. they chant. hi. wow. well, this is... luca castellini, its deputy leader, was jailed for the violence but freed pending appeal. ..the flag up here of the donetsk people's republic. esatto, donbas. donbas in ukraine, the part of ukraine taken by russia or claimed by russia. the mussolini calendar. you said this is the most sold calendar in italy?
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"we are fascists." "a call to arms." "we are fascists." and then up here, this is the, of course, the flag of the old... ..fascist republic. this was also luca castellini. .. cheers. ..as head of verona's ultras, italy's hardcore football fans, long a breeding ground of extremism. he's been banned from the stadium after saying a black player could never be truly italian. do you think it's acceptable to joke about adolf hitler?
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would you say the same thing again? you would repeat the same thing? what would you say to a jewish person, an italianjewish person, who lost their family to the holocaust? the scelba law in the italian constitution prohibits what it calls the praising, the threatening, or the use of violence, and says that that could allow a group to be banned, dissolved. isn't that exactly what forza nuova did against cgdl, against the trade union? did they not use violence? did you not use violence, you used threats, you targeted that union?
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no government has cracked down, but some feel prime minister giorgia meloni is even less likely to do so. she started in politics in the neo—fascist youth, interviewed aged 19 by french tv. the party she formed, brothers of italy, has its roots in post—war fascism, keeping the same tricolour flame logo. but she has moderated and moved it away from the far—right to the mainstream. she's topping polls before
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the upcoming european elections, an example for europe's nationalist politicians hoping she'll lead a new right—wing wave — and hoping to emulate her success in their countries. and on the past, she had this message. the italian right has handed fascism over history for decades now, unambiguously condemning the suppression of democracy and the ignominious anti—jewish laws. and yet, overt political extremism has continued to fester and flourish here... ..seemingly without punishment. a nazi birthday cake for a senior forza nuova figure drew little public reaction.
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but meloni's supporters say the issue is with the way in which anti—fascists have protested over the years — both in clashes with the other side and with police. and so, while the prime minister has never directly called herself anti—fascist, one of her oldest political allies says it's a nuance in italy that needs to be understood. being anti—fascist during the fascism was a very brave act, brave forfreedom, brave for democracy. but after the falling of the fascism, being anti—fascist means violence, means a lot of young students killed. this is why she's very clear — i always condemned the fascism every day of my life, but please don't tell me to share what the anti—fascists did after the falling
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of fascism. if somebody looks from outside and they see italy in 2024 with hundreds of people in the main second city of italy doing the fascist salute, how do you think that looks? if you are commemorating, er... ..um, a person dead, even if he was a fascist, this is not a crime, because... but should it be? ..being a neo—fascist is another thing. should it be a crime to use that gesture, to use the fascist salute in the middle of an italian city? no, no, i don't think so. you are fascist if you want to reintroduce the fascism in your country, not if you make the fascism salute. that is the roman salute. because the fascism is only 20 years in the italian history. italian history is really bigger than 20 years of fascism.
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every — every prime minister goes to the most important italian monument to say every year that we condemn the fascism. but more than this is an obsession. and so one side of italy sees fascism and its threat as a ghost haunting the present — the other as a fantasy whipped up by the left. geographically, socially, politically, italy is divided, but it's also split in the historical narrative people believe and are fed. across italy, the past, politically speaking, lives on. historical battles still part of the present. we've come to bologna, which has always been
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at the centre of the fight against fascism. here are the names and faces of the partisans that died defending this city from the fascists in the 1940s. but then it went on to 1980 with italy's worst terror attack, bombings at the train station here in bologna by neo—fascists that killed 85 people. and so fascism and anti—fascism have always been at the heart of this city's, this country's, political lexicon. we're seeing things in these recent years that are very similar to what happened at the beginning of the regime, and at the beginning of fascism a century ago. attacks on freedom of press, censorship, um, freedom for the lgbtqi community, attacks on the liberty and freedom of women to determine what they can do on their own body. so do you feel that the fight, the anti—fascism fight,
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is still relevant today? definitely. i definitely believe it's very relevant. and i also see again, to strike a parallel, the fact that the far—right, not only in italy but all over the world, is sort of trying to find a scapegoat for people's difficulties in everyday lives by attacking the stranger, the person who comes from abroad, the migrant. it's something similar again to what was done a century ago. so to me, it's quite striking as being very close to fascism. you know, a new form of fascism, neo—fascism, in fact, because it's again that same sort of tactic — i'll make you scared of something that's different to you. it's that same sort of rhetoric of many governments in power, from trump to 0rban, which really singles out a lot of battles for social justice or for civil rights and says they're wrong.
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in germany, you could never have somebody going and making a public declaration of support for nazism. you could never show a swastika. in italy, there are groups that exist, plenty of them. these skinhead groups, the far—right groups, you know, the roman salute. why is this all allowed to happen? germany in some ways sort of had to address the past because there was victors and those who had lost the war. italy's role was a little more ambiguous, right? so, first with hitler and then surrendered. and there's much to be said about really grappling with that legacy. that legacy is still being debated and dissected. the next generation learning about the wounds of the past one.
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history is weaponised in a country still not at peace with its past. nostalgia given free rein. sugar coating the bitter parts of collective memory. the political extreme here is perhaps small, but they're outspoken, they're permitted, and some of their views are seeping
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into the mainstream. camerata benito mussolini! all: presente! my name is roberto fiore and i'm the national secretary of forza nuova. i define myself as someone who really, who has certainly got, some ideas, some inspiration by certain parts of fascism. are you a fascist? if you ask me like that, i probably would say yes, but i have to complete the term and say i'm a revolutionary. italy hasn't got the intelligence and the courage to say, well, 0k, fascism was good on this and this and that, and maybe not good in other things. so as a reaction, i really, i accept, i don't refuse the term of fascism. but are you denying that the fascist regime
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was violent and criminal? yes, absolutely, i deny that. mussolini signed the racial laws, i mean, he deported, this was a regime that deported jews to death camps, that outlawed the opposition, that put political opponents in internment camps. are you honestly saying that you support those measures? the internment camps are things that happened with the war. the americans did it, the germans did it, the italians did it, and so on. i'm talking about people who were gassed, who were shot, who were exterminated for their religion. fascism has never been accused of this. i'm talking about fascism as a regime. mussolini and all his ministers have never been tried for this. do you believe that this government in power in italy is occupying your political space? no, i believe that they are freeing a lot of the political space that we are going to take. why? one of the main points is immigration. we have always been
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against immigration. meloni has always been against immigration, sometimes with our same tone and strength. now, immigrants last year, this year, have increased the number of 50%. where do you think italian people are going to go after this betrayal of, um, original positions? your movement or a movement like yours would not exist and has been banned in greece, for example golden dawn, in germany it would never exist. you would never be able to use the symbols and the slogans that your party uses in a country like germany. why is that the case? because germany has got a bigger problem. you think germany's got the problem rather than italy? no... yes, because freedom is freedom. neither victor nor vanquished. italy memorialises in a way others do not.
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the name, architecture and gestures of the regime allowed to live on. what do you think, we have to destroy everything? this is the cancel culture that we don't share. the question is, does the ideology itself survive? i would say there is a silent majority that would say yes, yes, yes on a lot of our ideas. and is italy the laboratory of fascism, once again a political testing room ? what should be seen as a crime, as apology of fascism, is actually again downplayed as, oh, no, it'sjust nostalgic, it's a tribute. the worry here is not that italy's democracy per se is under threat, but that a governing party which has not severed its historical roots still winks to that support base. and that speech, notions, even policies once banished are increasingly normalised.
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hello there. things are set to turn cooler for the rest of this week as we pick up arctic air, which will spread southwards across the uk during the course of tuesday. so it's going to be pretty disappointingly cool for the time of year, with some really chilly nights to come — gardeners and growers take note — and we'll see a mixture of sunshine and showers. it's all thanks to this area
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of low pressure pushing southwards out of the arctic, bringing this cold air behind the cold fronts across the country as you move through tuesday and into wednesday, and thereafter for the rest of the week, this cooler air hangs around with sunshine and showers, mainly across the north of the uk. tuesday starts off mostly dry. variable cloud, a bit of brightness for england and wales. this band of cloud and showery rain will spread south across the country. some of it will be heavy and squally, maybe a few heavy showers ahead of it in east anglia. but skies brightening up across the north of the uk later on behind the rain band, sunshine and blustery showers, but turning chillier here. last of the warmth hanging on ahead of that rain band, which will clear through during tuesday evening. and then we're all into the cooler air, clearer skies, plenty of showers rattling into northern and western areas, some of them heavy, again, with some rumbles of thunder. but a much cooler night to come to start wednesday. we're looking at low single digits pretty widely. so into wednesday, we have that area of low pressure sitting
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to the north of scotland, bringing the strongest winds to the northern half of the country. and it's here where we'll see most of these blustery showers moving through. again, some could be heavy with a little bit of hail, maybe wintriness on the very high tops of the scottish mountains. better chance of staying dry with some sunshine towards the far south and east, but highs of only 17 degrees — low teens further north. factor in the wind, it'll feel cooler than those temperatures suggest. thursday, similar story. most of the showers will be across the northern half of the country, closer to the area of low pressure, better chance of staying dry across parts of wales, the midlands southwards. it could be up to 17 or 18 degrees on thursday afternoon. but again, another chilly one in the north. and you can see why. that area of low pressure just hangs around thursday evening, into friday and the weekend, with that blue hue denoting the cooler air hanging around, especially across the northern half of the country. further south in the sunshine, it won't be too bad. may hit the 20 celsius mark as we head into the weekend. some decent spells of strong june sunshine, but it'll feel chilly in the north with further showers.
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live from washington. this is bbc news. mexico elects its first female president — we look at what it could mean for the country's future. the us ramps up pressure on israel and hamas to accept a proposed gaza ceasefire plan. a jury is selected in the trial of the son of the us president
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joe biden on gun charges. hello, i'm caitriona perry. you're very welcome. it's been an historic day in mexico, where claudia sheinbaum was elected as the first woman president. ms sheinbaum won about 60% of the vote. us presidentjoe biden called claudia sheinbaum to congratulate her on the victory, and said in a statement: "i look forward to working closely with president—elect sheinbaum in the spirit of partnership and friendship that reflects the enduring bonds between our two countries. " he went on to say: "i also congratulate the mexican people for conducting a nationwide successful democratic electoral process involving races for more than 20,000 positions at the local, state, and federal levels." ms sheinbaum is an environmental scientist turned politician. she is considered a protege of the previous president although

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