some of the last surviving veterans who fought in the second world war are in normandy to commemorate 80 years since d—day. it was a turning point in the war, as allied troops landed on the coast of northern france and began the liberation from nazi occupation. john maguire reports. for many of these veterans, their departure from the shores 80 years ago, all as very young man, was their first venture overseas. cheering. excitement and a sense of celebration will, in coming days, turne to commemoration. turn to commemoration. stan ford survived as his ship was sunk by a mini submarine, but many other members of the group were killed. as you know, john, i have 32 reasons for going back, 32 guys who never came home.

i made that promise to myself that every opportunity i would go back and pay my respects and honours those guys. as they left portsmouth, their modern day counterparts flew overhead in a royal air force transport plane and stood to attention, saluting on the deck of the aircraft carrier hms prince of wales, respect between the generations. john dennis has been back to normandy before but never to the british memorial. it was very emotional and i am afraid that will probably be a bit emotional when we get there, to see the actual thing. we will rememberthem. as the ferry approached the french coastline, the engine slowed and the veterans paid tribute.

so, a short, poignant, but highly symbolic ceremony as the wreath was thrown over the side of the ferry. the idea is to pay tribute to those who died before even reaching the french shores and beaches they had come here to liberate. and so to france and two full days of ceremonies and commemorations for those who can tell the story of what happened here eight years ago first—hand. the number may be dwindling, but their commitment today, as it was then, remains immense. john maguire, bbc news, normandy. that is it from me. now on bbc news

it is newscast recorded in the last hour. adam and the team unpacked the first tv debate of the general election campaign. adam fleming with newscast which can get everyday or sounds. sometimes more than once a day when there is a general election on. you're about to watch us to a live recording at the right podcast we we've assembled the family to chew over the first leaders debate of the uk general election. this was keir starmer versus rishi sunak, it was on itv, it was up in the northwest of england and we will chew over what we learn, what we didn't learn, whether both men would be happy with how they performed or whether they will have some niggles about how they performed on stage. we will have quite long days. we filled our notebooks with random scraps of observations from my fasting furious hour of television. as we get under way of this episode of newscast.

newscast from the bbc.- way of this episode of newscast. newscast from the bbc. hello, adam and the studio. _ newscast from the bbc. hello, adam and the studio. and _ newscast from the bbc. hello, adam and the studio. and it _ newscast from the bbc. hello, adam and the studio. and it is _ newscast from the bbc. hello, adam and the studio. and it is dharshini - and the studio. and it is dharshini in the studio. _ and the studio. and it is dharshini in the studio. chris _ and the studio. and it is dharshini in the studio. chris in _ and the studio. and it is dharshini in the studio. chris in salford. - in the studio. chris in salford. alex and _ in the studio. chris in salford. alex and salford. _ in the studio. chris in salford. alex and salford. that's - in the studio. chris in salford. alex and salford. that's a - in the studio. chris in salford. - alex and salford. that's a surprise. i hotfooted it from the spin room. alex _ i hotfooted it from the spin room. alexjust— i hotfooted it from the spin room. alex just came _ i hotfooted it from the spin room. alexjust came in _ i hotfooted it from the spin room. alexjust came in for— i hotfooted it from the spin room. alex just came in for that - i hotfooted it from the spin room. alexjust came in for that i- i hotfooted it from the spin room. alexjust came in for that i hope l alexjust came in for that i hope you dfm't— alexjust came in for that i hope you don't mind me sharing. alex came in and _ you don't mind me sharing. alex came in and sat_ you don't mind me sharing. alex came in and sat down in her seat and very diligently— in and sat down in her seat and very diligently attempted to hang her coat on— diligently attempted to hang her coat on the back of the chair. after several _ coat on the back of the chair. after several attempts, which didn't end in success— several attempts, which didn't end in successjust threw several attempts, which didn't end in success just threw it on the floor~ — in success just threw it on the floor. is— in success 'ust threw it on the floor. , ., ,., floor. is that point in the night which means _ floor. is that point in the night which means i _ floor. is that point in the night which means i could _ floor. is that point in the night which means i could do - floor. is that point in the night which means i could do a time j floor. is that point in the night - which means i could do a time check for the past 25 to ii and we watch the itv debate. it was a bit like being in a washing machine rather

than watching tv. it was very fast and furious. than watching tv. it was very fast and furiou— than watching tv. it was very fast and furious. was in a chris? it was personal. — and furious. was in a chris? it was personal. angry. _ and furious. was in a chris? it was personal, angry, aggressive, - and furious. was in a chris? it was personal, angry, aggressive, you i and furious. was in a chris? it was i personal, angry, aggressive, you get a real_ personal, angry, aggressive, you get a real sense _ personal, angry, aggressive, you get a real sense that the two men don't really— a real sense that the two men don't really like _ a real sense that the two men don't really like each other. i got the sense — really like each other. i got the sense that keir starmer appeared more _ sense that keir starmer appeared more nervous than rishi sunak. rishi sunak— more nervous than rishi sunak. rishi sunak appeared a bit more pumped, if you like. _ sunak appeared a bit more pumped, if you like, perhaps. that's been reflected — you like, perhaps. that's been reflected in some of the instants spin for— reflected in some of the instants spin for the conservatives are claiming _ spin for the conservatives are claiming that keir starmer looked like a _ claiming that keir starmer looked like a guy— claiming that keir starmer looked like a guy who was like a dot net deer_ like a guy who was like a dot net deer irr— like a guy who was like a dot net deer in headlights without labour are claiming desperate shouting and hectoring _ are claiming desperate shouting and hectoring for that when you step back from — hectoring for that when you step back from that and you look at it objectively, i think you can see... keir— objectively, i think you can see... keir starmer— objectively, i think you can see... keir starmer perhaps the nerves a bit, keir starmer perhaps the nerves a bit. there's— keir starmer perhaps the nerves a bit, there's more at stake for him. fearfui— bit, there's more at stake for him. fearful that — bit, there's more at stake for him. fearful that that big lead in the opinion— fearful that that big lead in the opinion polls might shrink. it hasn't — opinion polls might shrink. it hasn't in _ opinion polls might shrink. it hasn't in the first couple weeks of this campaign. for rishi sunak

perspective you needs a game changer in this— perspective you needs a game changer in this campaign so far everything he's tried — in this campaign so far everything he's tried would appear as not work. he also— he's tried would appear as not work. he also needs to convince his own side, _ he also needs to convince his own side, marry— he also needs to convince his own side, many who are very nervous about— side, many who are very nervous about the — side, many who are very nervous about the prospect of losing seeds that he _ about the prospect of losing seeds that he still got fight in him. but there's— that he still got fight in him. but there's still something for the conservativesjust there's still something for the conservatives just got for. i suspect— conservatives just got for. i suspect it's still early days in terms — suspect it's still early days in terms of— suspect it's still early days in terms of whatsapp messages pinging around _ terms of whatsapp messages pinging around and all that kind of thing. i suspect— around and all that kind of thing. i suspect conservatives however laden about _ suspect conservatives however laden about the _ suspect conservatives however laden about the bigger picture will take some _ about the bigger picture will take some heart and the fact that rishi suhak_ some heart and the fact that rishi sunak appeared to have a bit of zip about— sunak appeared to have a bit of zip about him. — sunak appeared to have a bit of zip about him, a bit of energy about him and was— about him, a bit of energy about him and was willing to scrap and scrap some _ and was willing to scrap and scrap some more — and was willing to scrap and scrap some more-— and was willing to scrap and scrap some more. , ., ., ., ., some more. they were on air for an hour and ten _ some more. they were on air for an hour and ten minutes. _ some more. they were on air for an hour and ten minutes. will- some more. they were on air for an hour and ten minutes. will be - some more. they were on air for an j hour and ten minutes. will be doing this episode for last. they talked over each other all the time, we probably will. i did in episode of newscast this morning previewing this eventually some people that advise party leaders how to do things in the past and they say they

are quite scripted. these guys are tightly drilled. what do you reckon from watching is the advice from advisers? i from watching is the advice from advisers? ~ ., , advisers? i think the absolute advice to rishi _ advisers? i think the absolute advice to rishi sunak- advisers? i think the absolute advice to rishi sunak was - advisers? i think the absolute advice to rishi sunak was go l advisers? i think the absolute i advice to rishi sunak was go out swinging — advice to rishi sunak was go out swinging i— advice to rishi sunak was go out swinging. i think— advice to rishi sunak was go out swinging. i think he _ advice to rishi sunak was go out swinging. i think he absolutely l advice to rishi sunak was go out. swinging. i think he absolutely did. exactly— swinging. i think he absolutely did. exactly as— swinging. i think he absolutely did. exactly as chris _ swinging. i think he absolutely did. exactly as chris said, _ swinging. i think he absolutely did. exactly as chris said, we _ swinging. i think he absolutely did. exactly as chris said, we knew - swinging. i think he absolutely did. exactly as chris said, we knew in l exactly as chris said, we knew in a strange _ exactly as chris said, we knew in a strange way— exactly as chris said, we knew in a strange way even _ exactly as chris said, we knew in a strange way even though - exactly as chris said, we knew in a strange way even though keir- exactly as chris said, we knew in a - strange way even though keir starmer has come _ strange way even though keir starmer has come to— strange way even though keir starmer has come to this — strange way even though keir starmer has come to this election _ strange way even though keir starmer has come to this election from - strange way even though keir starmer has come to this election from a - has come to this election from a point _ has come to this election from a point of— has come to this election from a point of a — has come to this election from a point of a position _ has come to this election from a point of a position and _ has come to this election from a point of a position and rishi - has come to this election from a . point of a position and rishi sunak from _ point of a position and rishi sunak from prime — point of a position and rishi sunak from prime minister, _ point of a position and rishi sunak from prime minister, in _ point of a position and rishi sunak from prime minister, in a - point of a position and rishi sunak from prime minister, in a strangel from prime minister, in a strange way it— from prime minister, in a strange way it feels— from prime minister, in a strange way it feels a _ from prime minister, in a strange way it feels a bit _ from prime minister, in a strange way it feels a bit like _ from prime minister, in a strange way it feels a bit like keir- from prime minister, in a strangej way it feels a bit like keir starmer -ot way it feels a bit like keir starmer got a _ way it feels a bit like keir starmer got a bit _ way it feels a bit like keir starmer got a bit more _ way it feels a bit like keir starmer got a bit more to— way it feels a bit like keir starmer got a bit more to lose _ way it feels a bit like keir starmer got a bit more to lose because - got a bit more to lose because of labour— got a bit more to lose because of labour is— got a bit more to lose because of labour is persistent _ got a bit more to lose because of labour is persistent position- got a bit more to lose because of labour is persistent position in. got a bit more to lose because ofl labour is persistent position in the bolls _ labour is persistent position in the bolls with— labour is persistent position in the polls. with all— labour is persistent position in the polls. with all their— labour is persistent position in the polls. with all their relative - polls. with all their relative pinches _ polls. with all their relative pinches of— polls. with all their relative pinches of salt. _ polls. with all their relative pinches of salt. for- polls. with all their relative pinches of salt. for rishi i polls. with all their relative - pinches of salt. for rishi sunak it was about— pinches of salt. for rishi sunak it was about go— pinches of salt. for rishi sunak it was about go out _ pinches of salt. for rishi sunak it was about go out and _ pinches of salt. for rishi sunak it was about go out and do - pinches of salt. for rishi sunak it was about go out and do what - was about go out and do what you can _ was about go out and do what you can and — was about go out and do what you can and bit— was about go out and do what you can. and bit the _ was about go out and do what you can. and bit the clear— was about go out and do what you can. and bit the clear advise - was about go out and do what you can. and bit the clear advise of. was about go out and do what you i can. and bit the clear advise of the messages, — can. and bit the clear advise of the messages, i— can. and bit the clear advise of the messages, i don't _ can. and bit the clear advise of the messages, idon't know— can. and bit the clear advise of the messages, idon't know if- can. and bit the clear advise of the messages, i don't know if you - can. and bit the clear advise of the i messages, i don't know if you missed it, messages, idon't know if you missed it. how— messages, idon't know if you missed it, how many— messages, i don't know if you missed it, how many times _ messages, i don't know if you missed it, how many times did _ messages, i don't know if you missed it, how many times did rishi - messages, i don't know if you missed it, how many times did rishi sunak. it, how many times did rishi sunak say that— it, how many times did rishi sunak say that labour _ it, how many times did rishi sunak say that labour was _ it, how many times did rishi sunak say that labour was going - it, how many times did rishi sunak say that labour was going to - it, how many times did rishi sunak say that labour was going to put. say that labour was going to put taxes _ say that labour was going to put taxes up — say that labour was going to put taxes up for— say that labour was going to put taxes up for that _ say that labour was going to put taxes up for that that _ say that labour was going to put taxes up for that that was - say that labour was going to put taxes up for that that was quite | taxes up for that that was quite clearly— taxes up for that that was quite clearly the _ taxes up for that that was quite clearly the line _ taxes up for that that was quite clearly the line he _ taxes up for that that was quite clearly the line he wanted - taxes up for that that was quite clearly the line he wanted to i taxes up for that that was quite i clearly the line he wanted to land, he said _ clearly the line he wanted to land, he said time — clearly the line he wanted to land, he said time and _ clearly the line he wanted to land, he said time and time _ clearly the line he wanted to land, he said time and time again. - clearly the line he wanted to land, he said time and time again. i- he said time and time again. i counted — he said time and time again. i counted 50 _ he said time and time again. i counted 50 minutes _ he said time and time again. i counted 50 minutes into - he said time and time again. i counted 50 minutes into thatl he said time and time again. i- counted 50 minutes into that debate before _ counted 50 minutes into that debate before keir— counted 50 minutes into that debate before keir starmer— counted 50 minutes into that debate before keir starmer said _ counted 50 minutes into that debate before keir starmer said that - counted 50 minutes into that debate before keir starmer said that this i before keir starmer said that this claim _ before keir starmer said that this claim that — before keir starmer said that this claim that taxes _ before keir starmer said that this claim that taxes were _ before keir starmer said that this claim that taxes were going - before keir starmer said that this claim that taxes were going up i claim that taxes were going up if labour— claim that taxes were going up if labour came _ claim that taxes were going up if labour came in— claim that taxes were going up if labour came in was _

claim that taxes were going up if labour came in was garbage. - claim that taxes were going up if. labour came in was garbage. it took him a _ labour came in was garbage. it took him a while — labour came in was garbage. it took him a while to— labour came in was garbage. it took him a while to shut _ labour came in was garbage. it took him a while to shut that _ labour came in was garbage. it took him a while to shut that down - labour came in was garbage. it took him a while to shut that down for. him a while to shut that down for the on _ him a while to shut that down for the on the — him a while to shut that down for the on the other— him a while to shut that down for the on the other side _ him a while to shut that down for the on the other side of- him a while to shut that down for the on the other side of it, - him a while to shut that down for the on the other side of it, the l the on the other side of it, the labour— the on the other side of it, the labour message _ the on the other side of it, the labour message that _ the on the other side of it, the labour message that they - the on the other side of it, the . labour message that they clearly want _ labour message that they clearly want to — labour message that they clearly want to land _ labour message that they clearly want to land was _ labour message that they clearly want to land was look— labour message that they clearly want to land was look at - labour message that they clearly want to land was look at the - labour message that they clearly want to land was look at the lastj labour message that they clearly i want to land was look at the last 14 years with — want to land was look at the last 14 years with up — want to land was look at the last 14 years with up whatever— want to land was look at the last 14 years with up whatever you - want to land was look at the last 14 years with up whatever you came . want to land was look at the last 14 i years with up whatever you came to, education. _ years with up whatever you came to, education. nhs, _ years with up whatever you came to, education, nhs, taxation, _ years with up whatever you came to, education, nhs, taxation, cost- years with up whatever you came to, education, nhs, taxation, cost of. education, nhs, taxation, cost of living— education, nhs, taxation, cost of living ali— education, nhs, taxation, cost of living all the _ education, nhs, taxation, cost of living all the subjects _ education, nhs, taxation, cost of living all the subjects it _ education, nhs, taxation, cost of living all the subjects it was - education, nhs, taxation, cost of living all the subjects it was lookl living all the subjects it was look at the _ living all the subjects it was look at the last— living all the subjects it was look at the last 14 _ living all the subjects it was look at the last 14 years. _ living all the subjects it was look at the last 14 years. in _ living all the subjects it was look at the last 14 years. in a - living all the subjects it was look at the last 14 years. in a strangej at the last 14 years. in a strange way the — at the last 14 years. in a strange way the message _ at the last 14 years. in a strange way the message had _ at the last 14 years. in a strange way the message had already i at the last 14 years. in a strange - way the message had already designed that a get— way the message had already designed that a get a _ way the message had already designed that a get a run— way the message had already designed that a get a run through _ way the message had already designed that a get a run through this _ that a get a run through this campaign _ that a get a run through this campaign on _ that a get a run through this campaign on the _ that a get a run through this campaign on the one - that a get a run through this campaign on the one hand, i that a get a run through this - campaign on the one hand, rishi sunak— campaign on the one hand, rishi sunak setting _ campaign on the one hand, rishi sunak setting things _ campaign on the one hand, rishi sunak setting things up - campaign on the one hand, rishi sunak setting things up and - campaign on the one hand, rishi sunak setting things up and talk| campaign on the one hand, rishi i sunak setting things up and talk but stick with— sunak setting things up and talk but stick with me — sunak setting things up and talk but stick with me i— sunak setting things up and talk but stick with me i got _ sunak setting things up and talk but stick with me i got a _ sunak setting things up and talk but stick with me i got a plan, - sunak setting things up and talk but stick with me i got a plan, it's- stick with me i got a plan, it's going — stick with me i got a plan, it's going to — stick with me i got a plan, it's going to get _ stick with me i got a plan, it's going to get better. _ stick with me i got a plan, it's going to get better. try- stick with me i got a plan, it's going to get better. try to - stick with me i got a plan, it's. going to get better. try to point stick with me i got a plan, it's- going to get better. try to point to the other— going to get better. try to point to the other guys— going to get better. try to point to the other guys and _ going to get better. try to point to the other guys and say— going to get better. try to point to the other guys and say they - going to get better. try to point tol the other guys and say they haven't a data _ the other guys and say they haven't a data plan — the other guys and say they haven't a data plan keir— the other guys and say they haven't a data plan. keir starmer— the other guys and say they haven't a data plan. keir starmer saint- the other guys and say they haven'tj a data plan. keir starmer saint look at the _ a data plan. keir starmer saint look at the last— a data plan. keir starmer saint look at the last 14 — a data plan. keir starmer saint look at the last 14 years, _ a data plan. keir starmer saint look at the last 14 years, it's _ a data plan. keir starmer saint look at the last 14 years, it's been - at the last 14 years, it's been pretty— at the last 14 years, it's been pretty rubbish. _ at the last 14 years, it's been pretty rubbish. i— at the last 14 years, it's been pretty rubbish. i think- at the last 14 years, it's been pretty rubbish. i think what l at the last 14 years, it's been pretty rubbish. i think what i| at the last 14 years, it's been - pretty rubbish. i think what i was surprised — pretty rubbish. i think what i was surprised by— pretty rubbish. i think what i was surprised by is— pretty rubbish. i think what i was surprised by is just _ pretty rubbish. i think what i was surprised by isjust how- pretty rubbish. i think what i was surprised by is just how punchy l pretty rubbish. i think what i wasj surprised by is just how punchy it was from — surprised by is just how punchy it was from the _ surprised by is just how punchy it was from the get _ surprised by is just how punchy it was from the get go. _ surprised by is just how punchy it was from the get go. i— surprised by is just how punchy it was from the get go. i do- surprised by is just how punchy it was from the get go. i do agree i surprised by is just how punchy it. was from the get go. i do agree with chris that _ was from the get go. i do agree with chris that keir — was from the get go. i do agree with chris that keir starmer— was from the get go. i do agree with chris that keir starmer looked a - chris that keir starmer looked a little _ chris that keir starmer looked a little bit — chris that keir starmer looked a little bit more _ chris that keir starmer looked a little bit more nervous - chris that keir starmer looked a little bit more nervous at - chris that keir starmer looked a little bit more nervous at the i little bit more nervous at the beginning _ little bit more nervous at the beginning it's— little bit more nervous at the beginning. it's hard - little bit more nervous at the beginning. it's hard to- little bit more nervous at the beginning. it's hard to knowl little bit more nervous at the - beginning. it's hard to know how they are — beginning. it's hard to know how they are feeling. _ beginning. it's hard to know how they are feeling. i— beginning. it's hard to know how they are feeling. i just _ beginning. it's hard to know how they are feeling. ijust had - they are feeling. ijust had this sense, — they are feeling. ijust had this sense, i— they are feeling. ijust had this sense, icant— they are feeling. ijust had this sense, i can't imagine - they are feeling. ijust had this sense, i can't imagine what . they are feeling. ijust had thisl sense, i can't imagine what the pressure — sense, i can't imagine what the pressure must _ sense, i can't imagine what the pressure must be _ sense, i can't imagine what the pressure must be like - sense, ican't imagine what the pressure must be like for- sense, i can't imagine what the pressure must be like for that. pressure must be like for that you could _ pressure must be like for that you could be _ pressure must be like for that you could be on— pressure must be like for that you could be on air— pressure must be like for that you could be on air for— pressure must be like for that you could be on air for an hour- pressure must be like for that you could be on air for an hour ten - could be on air for an hour ten scrutinised _ could be on air for an hour ten scrutinised by— could be on air for an hour ten scrutinised by every _ could be on air for an hour ten scrutinised by every detail. .

could be on air for an hour ten scrutinised by every detail. i l could be on air for an hour ten - scrutinised by every detail. i think they both — scrutinised by every detail. i think they both were _ scrutinised by every detail. i think they both were pretty _ scrutinised by every detail. i think they both were pretty nervous. i scrutinised by every detail. i think. they both were pretty nervous. they clearly _ they both were pretty nervous. they clearly both — they both were pretty nervous. they clearly both came _ they both were pretty nervous. they clearly both came in _ they both were pretty nervous. they clearly both came in their— they both were pretty nervous. they clearly both came in their fighting i clearly both came in their fighting to the _ clearly both came in their fighting to the point— clearly both came in their fighting to the point they _ clearly both came in their fighting to the point they had _ clearly both came in their fighting to the point they had to _ clearly both came in their fighting to the point they had to be - clearly both came in their fighting to the point they had to be told i clearly both came in their fighting | to the point they had to be told to pipe down~ — to the point they had to be told to pipe down. and _ to the point they had to be told to pipe down. and start— to the point they had to be told to| pipe down. and start chatting over each other — pipe down. and start chatting over each other im— pipe down. and start chatting over each other-— each other. i'm a veteran of these da s. i each other. i'm a veteran of these days- i watch _ each other. i'm a veteran of these days. i watch quite _ each other. i'm a veteran of these days. i watch quite a _ each other. i'm a veteran of these days. i watch quite a lot _ each other. i'm a veteran of these days. i watch quite a lot of- days. i watch quite a lot of election debates. sometimes in other countries with up that's what a geek i am when it comes to these events. which of the countries? my favourite was the eu parliament debates for that with people who are competing for a job that none were ever get. i watch a frenchman and realise my french wasn't good enough. i sought up french wasn't good enough. i sought up of eyes. my trick is, the times when i'm going to be this is easy is when i'm going to be this is easy is when the first three minutes you think actually that encapsulates the whole thing. that makes yourjob a bit easier as an observer and try to boil it all down. the first few minutes did encapsulate the whole thing for the dharshini, this is good but for you because it was about the cost of living in a capable question to both leaders from a woman who is having a really

hard time with her family finances. and we will now play the bits of the answers from starmer and sunak it sums up their court messages. here was keir starmer who managed to mention liz truss within the first two minutes of the entire show. this government — two minutes of the entire show. try 3 government has lost control. liz truss crash the economy they made it worse here than in other countries with that it's worse here than in other countries with that its people like you that are paying the price for that if the government loses control of the economy as they have it is working people that paid the price. and liz truss his advice is in the house of lords, she's going to be a candidate at the next election. rishi sunak has put forward. we at the next election. rishi sunak has put forward.— at the next election. rishi sunak has put forward. we got to stop us. you've already _ has put forward. we got to stop us. you've already heard _ has put forward. we got to stop us. you've already heard chris - has put forward. we got to stop us. you've already heard chris and alex talking about the fact that rishi sunak him at the idea that labour would get up taxes and this is our rishi sunak to bet on the debate stage. rishi sunak to bet on the debate sta . e. rishi sunak to bet on the debate staue. , p, , rishi sunak to bet on the debate staie, , ., , ., 4' stage. the plan is working. of course i know _ stage. the plan is working. of course i know everyone - stage. the plan is working. of course i know everyone is - stage. the plan is working. 0f| course i know everyone is only stage. the plan is working. of - course i know everyone is onlyjust starting _ course i know everyone is onlyjust starting to— course i know everyone is onlyjust starting to feel the benefits but inflation — starting to feel the benefits but inflation is back to normal, wages

are growing. taxes are now being cut. are growing. taxes are now being cut keir— are growing. taxes are now being cut. keir starmerwould are growing. taxes are now being cut. keir starmer would put all that progress _ cut. keir starmer would put all that progress at — cut. keir starmer would put all that progress at risk he would put up everyone's— progress at risk he would put up everyone's taxes by £2000 for the £2000 _ everyone's taxes by £2000 for the £2000 and higher taxes for every work— £2000 and higher taxes for every work and — £2000 and higher taxes for every work and family in our country. right — work and family in our country. right. dharshini, where they want to start? i give you 45 seconds. like ou i am start? i give you 45 seconds. like you i am a _ start? i give you 45 seconds. like you i am a veteran _ start? i give you 45 seconds. like you i am a veteran of— start? i give you 45 seconds. l age: you i am a veteran of debates the first one i remember watching admittedly is i was on the air in 2010 with david cameron with another broadcaster. i remember watching that and this one was so dark that not adversarial but what the two things have is that was a really tricky period after a financial crisis. here you are coming out of the cost of living crisis and you've got the conservatives wanting to talk about labourers lack of a plan going forward or what does that look like. you've got sir keir starmer wanted to look back saying hang on, you've mishandled. let's pull those

two things apart because that £2000 tax rise kept hearing about that apparently labour has checked up his sleeve, what is at about? it comes from officialfigures. these are sleeve, what is at about? it comes from official figures. these are the official costings of the oppositions policy for the pair done by civil servants. but it's based on assumptions made by conservative advisors. some of those assumptions are a little bit, shall we say, questionable. some of those costings which over the course of the next parliament, over £38 billion which equates to £2094 per person is what they're saying. per equates to £2094 per person is what they're saying-— they're saying. per house for that every household _ they're saying. per house for that every household had _ they're saying. per house for that every household had the - they're saying. per house for that every household had the same i they're saying. per house for that l every household had the same tax bill for the network comes from for them really surprising that it took that long for circular starmer to knock it back. the that long for circular starmer to knock it back.— that long for circular starmer to knock it back. the other point was about what _ knock it back. the other point was about what happened _ knock it back. the other point was about what happened under - knock it back. the other point was about what happened under liz i knock it back. the other point was - about what happened under liz truss. we don't know interest rates for the more drinks because rows tend years

ago. they came down after liz truss �*s government went and tax policies were reversed. but we've seen them creep back up but for different reasons. because of higher inflation. that is all about local factors as we said time and time again. 50 factors as we said time and time aiain. f ., factors as we said time and time aain. �*, ., ., .. ., factors as we said time and time aain. �*, ., ., ., factors as we said time and time aiain. �*, ., ., ., again. so it's not accurate to say the reason _ again. so it's not accurate to say the reason mortgages _ again. so it's not accurate to say the reason mortgages are - again. so it's not accurate to sayj the reason mortgages are higher again. so it's not accurate to say - the reason mortgages are higher now than they were two and half years ago is entirely because of liz truss? ., ., ., ., ., truss? no. the guard of moral premium _ truss? no. the guard of moral premium in — truss? no. the guard of moral premium in financial— truss? no. the guard of moral premium in financial markets. | truss? no. the guard of moral - premium in financial markets. that seems to have evaporated, the idea that the uk is more risky so we have to charge a bit more. you that the uk is more risky so we have to charge a bit more.— that the uk is more risky so we have to charge a bit more. you don't have to charge a bit more. you don't have to be a political— to charge a bit more. you don't have to be a political expert, _ to charge a bit more. you don't have to be a political expert, just - to charge a bit more. you don't have to be a political expert, just go on i to be a political expert, just go on social media and see all the story ministers and cabinet ministers are going rishi sunak won that debate because he revealed keir starmer secret plan to put up taxes. keir starmer was _ secret plan to put up taxes. keir starmer was not _ secret plan to put up taxes. keir starmer was not super clarinet point~ — starmer was not super clarinet point it— starmer was not super clarinet point. it did take a long time for keir starmer to point. it did take a long time for keir starmerto take on point. it did take a long time for keir starmer to take on an address and demolish that point. can

allowing _ and demolish that point. can allowing rishi sunak to come back to it over— allowing rishi sunak to come back to it over and _ allowing rishi sunak to come back to it over and over allowing rishi sunak to come back to it overand overagain. allowing rishi sunak to come back to it over and over again. that is clearly— it over and over again. that is clearly a — it over and over again. that is clearly a dividing line that rishi sunak— clearly a dividing line that rishi sunak and the conservatives are very keen to _ sunak and the conservatives are very keen to hammer home without question — keen to hammer home without question. given the extent to which rishi sunak— question. given the extent to which rishi sunak us back was against the wall coming into this, notches in the last— wall coming into this, notches in the last fortnight but arguably in the last fortnight but arguably in the best— the last fortnight but arguably in the best part of the last two years his term _ the best part of the last two years his term as— the best part of the last two years his term as prime minister, particular— his term as prime minister, particular after those initial months _ particular after those initial months of stabilising the economy at pretty— months of stabilising the economy at pretty much every attempt he's had to try— pretty much every attempt he's had to try and _ pretty much every attempt he's had to try and improve the conservatives prospects _ to try and improve the conservatives prospects basically hasn't at work. he is— prospects basically hasn't at work. he is tried — prospects basically hasn't at work. he is tried things that his opponents will instantly point to as being _ opponents will instantly point to as being contradictory some of them arguably— being contradictory some of them arguably are. the argument in the conference — arguably are. the argument in the conference speech about the finding himself— conference speech about the finding himself against the previous 30 years. — himself against the previous 30 years, including conservative leaders — years, including conservative leaders with appointing a former conservative leader in his appointment. lord cameron as foreman secretary _

appointment. lord cameron as foreman secretary. not a lot has worked, if anything — secretary. not a lot has worked, if anything. then we come into a campaign _ anything. then we come into a campaign where nearly a fortnight in an conservative strategy is bentleys fireworks _ an conservative strategy is bentleys fireworks of policy to try and point out this— fireworks of policy to try and point out this idea that he encapsulates the future — out this idea that he encapsulates the future at his knock and talk about _ the future at his knock and talk about the — the future at his knock and talk about the past, at the labour much more _ about the past, at the labour much more conscious of what they been saying _ more conscious of what they been saying in— more conscious of what they been saying in the last couple of weeks. effectively fleshing out what they been arguing for some time, trying to be _ been arguing for some time, trying to be a _ been arguing for some time, trying to be a reassuring presence rather than a _ to be a reassuring presence rather than a surprising one. you have rishi _ than a surprising one. you have rishi sunak— than a surprising one. you have rishi sunak in this debate thinking right, _ rishi sunak in this debate thinking right, back is against the wall, scepticism on his own side about how well he _ scepticism on his own side about how well he has _ scepticism on his own side about how well he has been doing for the ending — well he has been doing for the ending coming out with yes, that point _ ending coming out with yes, that point about tax but then the broader stance _ point about tax but then the broader stance that — point about tax but then the broader stance that he took tonight, pretty aggressive, really. but equally to his own _ aggressive, really. but equally to his own side but i guess the wider country. _ his own side but i guess the wider country, look at whatever you read nobody's _ country, look at whatever you read nobody's voted yet, i'm up for the fight _ nobody's voted yet, i'm up for the fight here — nobody's voted yet, i'm up for the fight. here are the two sides of the ledger _ fight. here are the two sides of the ledger he — fight. here are the two sides of the

ledger. he comes in, the one advantage that he brought into the debate _ advantage that he brought into the debate tonight is as prime minister you are _ debate tonight is as prime minister you are more widely known that the other— you are more widely known that the other guy _ you are more widely known that the other guy. the other guy is more of a blank— other guy. the other guy is more of a blank canvas. if you can paint stuff— a blank canvas. if you can paint stuff onto— a blank canvas. if you can paint stuff onto that canvas for the other luy, stuff onto that canvas for the other guy, in— stuff onto that canvas for the other guy, in this — stuff onto that canvas for the other guy, in this instance keir starmer can paint — guy, in this instance keir starmer can paint in— guy, in this instance keir starmer can paint in the room brush strokes and say— can paint in the room brush strokes and say this— can paint in the room brush strokes and say this in analogy to a breaking _ and say this in analogy to a breaking point, then you mightjust be onto— breaking point, then you mightjust be onto something. that's what they were trying _ be onto something. that's what they were trying to do on tax.— were trying to do on tax. alex, give me a verdict _ were trying to do on tax. alex, give me a verdict on _ were trying to do on tax. alex, give me a verdict on the _ were trying to do on tax. alex, give me a verdict on the whole - were trying to do on tax. alex, give me a verdict on the whole clash - were trying to do on tax. alex, give me a verdict on the whole clash of. me a verdict on the whole clash of biographies with that in these event you always get the bits of history and they hearken back to their childhood. and they hearken back to their childhood-— childhood. there is a battle of backgrounds _ childhood. there is a battle of backgrounds going _ childhood. there is a battle of backgrounds going on. - childhood. there is a battle of backgrounds going on. i - childhood. there is a battle of- backgrounds going on. i hotfooted it here from _ backgrounds going on. i hotfooted it here from the — backgrounds going on. i hotfooted it here from the spin— backgrounds going on. i hotfooted it here from the spin room, _ backgrounds going on. i hotfooted it here from the spin room, the - backgrounds going on. i hotfooted it here from the spin room, the spin. here from the spin room, the spin room _ here from the spin room, the spin room being — here from the spin room, the spin room being in— here from the spin room, the spin room being in this _ here from the spin room, the spin room being in this case _ here from the spin room, the spin room being in this case a - here from the spin room, the spinl room being in this case a corporate room _ room being in this case a corporate room set _ room being in this case a corporate room set up — room being in this case a corporate room set up above _ room being in this case a corporate room set up above coronation - room being in this case a corporate i room set up above coronation street set in _ room set up above coronation street set in the _ room set up above coronation street set in the itv— room set up above coronation street set in the itv building _ room set up above coronation street set in the itv building where - room set up above coronation street set in the itv building where a - set in the itv building where a whole — set in the itv building where a whole loadm _ set in the itv building where a whole load. . ._ set in the itv building where a whole load... �* . . , ., ,

whole load... i'm aghast. iwas in there for the _ whole load... i'm aghast. iwas in there for the six _ whole load... i'm aghast. iwas in there for the six o'clock _ whole load... i'm aghast. i was in there for the six o'clock news - whole load... i'm aghast. i was in there for the six o'clock news and j there for the six o'clock news and not only— there for the six o'clock news and not only next to coronation street set but _ not only next to coronation street set but we — not only next to coronation street set but we walked past on the pen the next _ set but we walked past on the pen the next thing room the coronation iift the next thing room the coronation gift shop _ the next thing room the coronation gift shop. it was closed for the update — gift shop. it was closed for the update of— gift shop. it was closed for the update of made a fortune. newton and ridley— update of made a fortune. newton and ridley paint parts. you update of made a fortune. newton and ridley paint parts-— ridley paint parts. you not bring me back to present _ ridley paint parts. you not bring me back to present time? _ ridley paint parts. you not bring me back to present time? no. - ridley paint parts. you not bring me | back to present time? no. a marlowe t-shirt. back to present time? no. a marlowe t-shirt- you — back to present time? no. a marlowe t-shirt. you missed _ back to present time? no. a marlowe t-shirt. you missed out _ back to present time? no. a marlowe t-shirt. you missed out on _ back to present time? no. a marlowe t-shirt. you missed out on the - back to present time? no. a marlowe t-shirt. you missed out on the spin l t-shirt. you missed out on the spin room which — t-shirt. you missed out on the spin room which was _ t-shirt. you missed out on the spin room which was slightly _ t-shirt. you missed out on the spin room which was slightly less - room which was slightly less exciting _ room which was slightly less exciting the _ room which was slightly less exciting. the battle - room which was slightly less exciting. the battle of- room which was slightly less exciting. the battle of the l room which was slightly less . exciting. the battle of the back story — exciting. the battle of the back story in— exciting. the battle of the back story in the _ exciting. the battle of the back story. in the spin _ exciting. the battle of the back story. in the spin room - exciting. the battle of the back| story. in the spin room were all these _ story. in the spin room were all these journalists— story. in the spin room were all these journalists are _ story. in the spin room were all these journalists are watching l these journalists are watching the debates— these journalists are watching the debates and — these journalists are watching the debates and afterwards _ these journalists are watching the debates and afterwards all - these journalists are watching the debates and afterwards all the . debates and afterwards all the parties — debates and afterwards all the parties shall _ debates and afterwards all the parties shall vote _ debates and afterwards all the parties shall vote their - debates and afterwards all the parties shall vote their big - debates and afterwards all the i parties shall vote their big names to try— parties shall vote their big names to try and — parties shall vote their big names to try and spend _ parties shall vote their big names to try and spend the _ parties shall vote their big names to try and spend the narrative - parties shall vote their big names to try and spend the narrative toi to try and spend the narrative to the journalist _ to try and spend the narrative to the journalist about— to try and spend the narrative to the journalist about how - to try and spend the narrative to the journalist about how well - to try and spend the narrative to. the journalist about how well they are guy— the journalist about how well they are guy did — the journalist about how well they are guy did when _ the journalist about how well they are guy did. when those - the journalist about how well theyl are guy did. when those moments the journalist about how well they- are guy did. when those moments came up are guy did. when those moments came up that— are guy did. when those moments came up that you _ are guy did. when those moments came up that you heard — are guy did. when those moments came up that you heard rishi _ are guy did. when those moments came up that you heard rishi sunak— are guy did. when those moments came up that you heard rishi sunak say, - up that you heard rishi sunak say, my dad _ up that you heard rishi sunak say, my dad was— up that you heard rishi sunak say, my dad was our— up that you heard rishi sunak say, my dad was our pharmacist, - up that you heard rishi sunak say, my dad was our pharmacist, i- up that you heard rishi sunak say, i my dad was our pharmacist, i know about the _ my dad was our pharmacist, i know about the nhs— my dad was our pharmacist, i know about the nhs and _ my dad was our pharmacist, i know about the nhs and you _ my dad was our pharmacist, i know about the nhs and you heard keir. about the nhs and you heard keir starmer— about the nhs and you heard keir starmer say— about the nhs and you heard keir starmer say my— about the nhs and you heard keir starmer say my mum _ about the nhs and you heard keir starmer say my mum works - about the nhs and you heard keir starmer say my mum works for. about the nhs and you heard keir. starmer say my mum works for the about the nhs and you heard keir- starmer say my mum works for the nhs my dad _ starmer say my mum works for the nhs

my dad was— starmer say my mum works for the nhs my dad was to _ starmer say my mum works for the nhs my dad was to make _ starmer say my mum works for the nhs my dad was to make up— starmer say my mum works for the nhs my dad was to make up for— starmer say my mum works for the nhs my dad was to make up for the - starmer say my mum works for the nhs my dad was to make up for the nhs my| my dad was to make up for the nhs my dad was _ my dad was to make up for the nhs my dad was to— my dad was to make up for the nhs my dad was to make — my dad was to make up for the nhs my dad was to make her— my dad was to make up for the nhs my dad was to make her foot _ my dad was to make up for the nhs my dad was to make her foot up— my dad was to make up for the nhs my dad was to make her foot up there - dad was to make her foot up there was a _ dad was to make her foot up there was a sort — dad was to make her foot up there was a sort of— dad was to make her foot up there was a sort of grown _ dad was to make her foot up there was a sort of grown from - dad was to make her foot up there was a sort of grown from the - was a sort of grown from the journals— was a sort of grown from the journals of— was a sort of grown from the journals of the _ was a sort of grown from the journals of the room - was a sort of grown from the journals of the room it - was a sort of grown from the - journals of the room it many times before _ journals of the room it many times before we — journals of the room it many times before. we have _ journals of the room it many times before. we have to _ journals of the room it many times before. we have to remember- journals of the room it many times before. we have to remember forl journals of the room it many timesl before. we have to remember for a lot of— before. we have to remember for a lot of people — before. we have to remember for a lot of people and _ before. we have to remember for a lot of people and to _ before. we have to remember for a lot of people and to the _ before. we have to remember for a lot of people and to the point - before. we have to remember for a lot of people and to the point that i lot of people and to the point that chris— lot of people and to the point that chris was— lot of people and to the point that chris was making _ lot of people and to the point that chris was making earlier- lot of people and to the point that chris was making earlier may - lot of people and to the point that chris was making earlier may be l chris was making earlier may be particularly _ chris was making earlier may be particularly for— chris was making earlier may be particularly for keir— chris was making earlier may be particularly for keir starmer - particularly for keir starmer because _ particularly for keir starmer because he _ particularly for keir starmer because he has— particularly for keir starmer because he has at _ particularly for keir starmer because he has at the - particularly for keir starmer i because he has at the platform particularly for keir starmer - because he has at the platform of being _ because he has at the platform of being prime — because he has at the platform of being prime minister— because he has at the platform of being prime minister for- because he has at the platform of being prime minister for the - because he has at the platform of being prime minister for the pastl being prime minister for the past couple _ being prime minister for the past couple years. _ being prime minister for the past couple years, this _ being prime minister for the past couple years, this is _ being prime minister for the past couple years, this is a _ being prime minister for the past couple years, this is a lot- being prime minister for the past couple years, this is a lot of- couple years, this is a lot of people _ couple years, this is a lot of people would've _ couple years, this is a lot of people would've started - couple years, this is a lot of people would've started toi couple years, this is a lot of- people would've started to these people _ people would've started to these people really— people would've started to these people really closely— people would've started to these people really closely with - people would've started to these people really closely with the - people would've started to these i people really closely with the view in their— people really closely with the view in their mind — people really closely with the view in their mind about— people really closely with the view in their mind about who _ people really closely with the view in their mind about who they- people really closely with the view i in their mind about who they want to be the _ in their mind about who they want to be the next — in their mind about who they want to be the next prime _ in their mind about who they want to be the next prime minister. - in their mind about who they want to be the next prime minister. you - in their mind about who they want to be the next prime minister. you can| be the next prime minister. you can see why— be the next prime minister. you can see why they— be the next prime minister. you can see why they do _ be the next prime minister. you can see why they do try _ be the next prime minister. you can see why they do try out _ be the next prime minister. you can see why they do try out those - be the next prime minister. you can see why they do try out those lines i see why they do try out those lines but there _ see why they do try out those lines but there ground _ see why they do try out those lines but there ground the point - see why they do try out those lines but there ground the point behindl see why they do try out those lines i but there ground the point behind it is they're _ but there ground the point behind it is they're trying _ but there ground the point behind it is they're trying to _ but there ground the point behind it is they're trying to show _ but there ground the point behind it is they're trying to show that they i is they're trying to show that they iet is they're trying to show that they get it _ is they're trying to show that they get it that— is they're trying to show that they get it. that they've _ is they're trying to show that they get it. that they've got— is they're trying to show that they| get it. that they've got something in common— get it. that they've got something in common with _ get it. that they've got something in common with us _ get it. that they've got something in common with us normal- get it. that they've got something in common with us normal folk. . get it. that they've got something - in common with us normal folk. there are not— in common with us normal folk. there are not some — in common with us normal folk. there are not some different, _ in common with us normal folk. there are not some different, distant- are not some different, distant breed — are not some different, distant breed of— are not some different, distant breed of humans _ are not some different, distant breed of humans that - are not some different, distant breed of humans that doesn't i breed of humans that doesn't understand _ breed of humans that doesn't understand what— breed of humans that doesn't understand what it's - breed of humans that doesn't understand what it's like - breed of humans that doesn't understand what it's like to i understand what it's like to struggle _ understand what it's like to struggle to _ understand what it's like to struggle to work _ understand what it's like to struggle to work in - understand what it's like to struggle to work in the - understand what it's like to i struggle to work in the public sector— struggle to work in the public sector or— struggle to work in the public sector or whatever _ struggle to work in the public sector or whatever it - struggle to work in the public sector or whatever it might i struggle to work in the public i sector or whatever it might be. i think_ sector or whatever it might be. i think what— sector or whatever it might be. i think what was _ sector or whatever it might be. i think what was interesting - sector or whatever it might be. i think what was interesting in - sector or whatever it might be. i| think what was interesting in this debate _ think what was interesting in this debate about _ think what was interesting in this debate about the _ think what was interesting in this debate about the nature - think what was interesting in this debate about the nature of - think what was interesting in this debate about the nature of it - think what was interesting in this . debate about the nature of it where you had _ debate about the nature of it where you had the — debate about the nature of it where you had the question, _ debate about the nature of it where you had the question, the - debate about the nature of it where| you had the question, the members debate about the nature of it where i you had the question, the members of the public— you had the question, the members of the public sat— you had the question, the members of the public sat right _ you had the question, the members of the public sat right there _ you had the question, the members of the public sat right there and - the public sat right there and telling — the public sat right there and telling their— the public sat right there and telling their personal- the public sat right there and telling their personal stories| the public sat right there and - telling their personal stories and the first— telling their personal stories and the first question _ telling their personal stories and the first question was _ telling their personal stories and the first question was a - telling their personal stories and the first question was a really i the first question was a really compelling _ the first question was a really compelling story— the first question was a really compelling story but - the first question was a really compelling story but she - the first question was a really i compelling story but she worked the first question was a really - compelling story but she worked her whole _ compelling story but she worked her whole life _ compelling story but she worked her whole life about _ compelling story but she worked her whole life about how— compelling story but she worked her whole life about how to _ compelling story but she worked her whole life about how to batch - compelling story but she worked her whole life about how to batch bake i whole life about how to batch bake on the _ whole life about how to batch bake on the weekends _ whole life about how to batch bake on the weekends because - whole life about how to batch bake on the weekends because she - whole life about how to batch bake - on the weekends because she couldn't

afford _ on the weekends because she couldn't afford to— on the weekends because she couldn't afford to turn — on the weekends because she couldn't afford to turn her— on the weekends because she couldn't afford to turn her off _ on the weekends because she couldn't afford to turn her off and _ on the weekends because she couldn't afford to turn her off and on. - on the weekends because she couldn't afford to turn her off and on. what - afford to turn her off and on. what they are _ afford to turn her off and on. what they are using _ afford to turn her off and on. what they are using those _ afford to turn her off and on. what they are using those back - afford to turn her off and on. what they are using those back stories i they are using those back stories to do is _ they are using those back stories to do is to— they are using those back stories to do is to show— they are using those back stories to do is to show empathy. _ they are using those back stories to do is to show empathy. i _ they are using those back stories to do is to show empathy. i don't - they are using those back stories to| do is to show empathy. i don't know how weti— do is to show empathy. i don't know how well it — do is to show empathy. i don't know how well it came _ do is to show empathy. i don't know how well it came across, _ do is to show empathy. i don't know how well it came across, if - do is to show empathy. i don't know how well it came across, if i'm - how well it came across, if i'm hohest~ — how well it came across, if i'm hohest~ that— how well it came across, if i'm honest. that is— how well it came across, if i'm honest. that is clearly- how well it came across, if i'm honest. that is clearly an - how well it came across, if i'm . honest. that is clearly an attempt to do— honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it _ honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it i— honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it icah— honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it. i can relate _ honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it. i can relate as— honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it. i can relate as much- honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it. i can relate as much as l to do it. i can relate as much as the other— to do it. i can relate as much as the other guy _ to do it. i can relate as much as the other guy 0f— to do it. i can relate as much as the other guy. of course, - to do it. i can relate as much as the other guy. of course, the l the other guy. of course, the particular— the other guy. of course, the particular issue _ the other guy. of course, the particular issue i— the other guy. of course, the particular issue i would - the other guy. of course, the particular issue i would say . the other guy. of course, thei particular issue i would say for rishi _ particular issue i would say for rishi sunak— particular issue i would say for rishi sunak because _ particular issue i would say for rishi sunak because it's - particular issue i would say for rishi sunak because it's an- particular issue i would say for. rishi sunak because it's an attack line from — rishi sunak because it's an attack line from labour— rishi sunak because it's an attack line from labour against - rishi sunak because it's an attack line from labour against him, - rishi sunak because it's an attack line from labour against him, hei line from labour against him, he doesn't — line from labour against him, he doesn't get _ line from labour against him, he doesn't get it _ line from labour against him, he doesn't get it. that's— line from labour against him, he doesn't get it. that's why - line from labour against him, he doesn't get it. that's why you i line from labour against him, he . doesn't get it. that's why you heard from _ doesn't get it. that's why you heard from rishi _ doesn't get it. that's why you heard from rishi sunak— doesn't get it. that's why you heard from rishi sunak when _ doesn't get it. that's why you heard from rishi sunak when he _ doesn't get it. that's why you heard i from rishi sunak when he references his past— from rishi sunak when he references his past irr— from rishi sunak when he references his past in that — from rishi sunak when he references his past in that capacity— from rishi sunak when he references his past in that capacity tonight, - his past in that capacity tonight, in attempt — his past in that capacity tonight, in attempt to— his past in that capacity tonight, in attempt to neutralise - his past in that capacity tonight, in attempt to neutralise that. i in attempt to neutralise that. whether— in attempt to neutralise that. whether they _ in attempt to neutralise that. whether they get _ in attempt to neutralise that. whether they get it, - in attempt to neutralise that. whether they get it, who - in attempt to neutralise that. - whether they get it, who knows? iiusit whether they get it, who knows? just auoin whether they get it, who knows? going into the mix, as with opinion bolts. _ going into the mix, as with opinion bolts. you — going into the mix, as with opinion polls. you a — going into the mix, as with opinion polls, you a pinch of salt but you -ot polls, you a pinch of salt but you got the _ polls, you a pinch of salt but you got the polling company putting out some _ got the polling company putting out some snap polling from people who watching _ some snap polling from people who watching the debate and crucially about _ watching the debate and crucially about reformed uk and the nervousness on the conservative side about— nervousness on the conservative side about what's happening to their broad _ about what's happening to their

broad coalition of support from 2019 — broad coalition of support from 2019 you _ broad coalition of support from 2019. you got suggesting that conservative 2019 voters if you watch — conservative 2019 voters if you watch the _ conservative 2019 voters if you watch the telly in the last couple of hours — watch the telly in the last couple of hours think that rishi sunak one by 85% _ of hours think that rishi sunak one by 85% to— of hours think that rishi sunak one by 85% to 15%. that's a lot. it is huge _ by 85% to 15%. that's a lot. it is huge eveh— by 85% to 15%. that's a lot. it is huge. even if you factor in perhaps some _ huge. even if you factor in perhaps some of— huge. even if you factor in perhaps some of that may be the margins of error and _ some of that may be the margins of error and all — some of that may be the margins of error and all that. that is a substantial... overall the suggestion that 51—49 in rishi sue knox _ suggestion that 51—49 in rishi sue knox favor. pretty much... was interesting _ knox favor. pretty much... was interesting is _ knox favor. pretty much... was interesting is one _ knox favor. pretty much. .. was interesting is one of— knox favor. pretty much... was interesting is one of the - knox favor. pretty much... was interesting is one of the health sector— interesting is one of the health sector is— interesting is one of the health sector is with _ interesting is one of the health sector is with spinners - interesting is one of the health sector is with spinners doing. interesting is one of the health| sector is with spinners doing an interview— sector is with spinners doing an interview where _ sector is with spinners doing an interview where michael- sector is with spinners doing an interview where michael gove l sector is with spinners doing an . interview where michael gove was hanging _ interview where michael gove was hanging over— interview where michael gove was hanging over nry— interview where michael gove was hanging over my other— interview where michael gove was hanging over my other shoulder, i interview where michael gove was . hanging over my other shoulder, the realty— hanging over my other shoulder, the really weird — hanging over my other shoulder, the really weird sound _ hanging over my other shoulder, the really weird sound if— hanging over my other shoulder, the really weird sound if you _ hanging over my other shoulder, the really weird sound if you find - hanging over my other shoulder, the really weird sound if you find your. really weird sound if you find your number _ really weird sound if you find your number would _ really weird sound if you find your number would be _ really weird sound if you find your number would be the _ really weird sound if you find your number would be the selling - really weird sound if you find your number would be the selling into| number would be the selling into spinner — number would be the selling into spinner 0ne _ number would be the selling into spinner. one of— number would be the selling into spinner. one of the _ number would be the selling into spinner. one of the lines - number would be the selling into spinner. one of the lines he - number would be the selling into spinner. one of the lines he said| spinner. one of the lines he said was: _ spinner. one of the lines he said was, clearly _ spinner. one of the lines he said was, cteartyan— spinner. one of the lines he said was, clearly an attack— spinner. one of the lines he said was, clearly an attack line -

spinner. one of the lines he said was, clearly an attack line is - spinner. one of the lines he said| was, clearly an attack line is that rishi _ was, clearly an attack line is that rishi sunak— was, clearly an attack line is that rishi sunak wasn't _ was, clearly an attack line is that rishi sunak wasn't debating - was, clearly an attack line is that rishi sunak wasn't debating keir| rishi sunak wasn't debating keir starmer, — rishi sunak wasn't debating keir starmer, he _ rishi sunak wasn't debating keir starmer, he was _ rishi sunak wasn't debating keir starmer, he was debating - rishi sunak wasn't debating keir| starmer, he was debating reform rishi sunak wasn't debating keir- starmer, he was debating reform for that interesting? _ starmer, he was debating reform for that interesting? when— starmer, he was debating reform for that interesting? when you - starmer, he was debating reform for that interesting? when you look- starmer, he was debating reform for that interesting? when you look at l that interesting? when you look at those _ that interesting? when you look at those morning _ that interesting? when you look at those morning figures, _ that interesting? when you look at those morning figures, we - that interesting? when you look at those morning figures, we know. that interesting? when you look at l those morning figures, we know that the conservatives— those morning figures, we know that the conservatives are _ those morning figures, we know that the conservatives are conscious - those morning figures, we know that the conservatives are conscious of. the conservatives are conscious of the conservatives are conscious of the potential— the conservatives are conscious of the potential risks _ the conservatives are conscious of the potential risks from _ the conservatives are conscious of the potential risks from reform i the conservatives are conscious of. the potential risks from reform uk. in the potential risks from reform uk. in labour— the potential risks from reform uk. in tabourwere— the potential risks from reform uk. in labour were quick— the potential risks from reform uk. in labour were quick off— the potential risks from reform uk. in labour were quick off the - the potential risks from reform uk. in labour were quick off the mark. in labour were quick off the mark suggesting — in labour were quick off the mark suggesting that _ in labour were quick off the mark suggesting that some _ in labour were quick off the mark suggesting that some of- in labour were quick off the mark suggesting that some of this - in labour were quick off the mark suggesting that some of this was clearly— suggesting that some of this was clearly aimed _ suggesting that some of this was clearly aimed at _ suggesting that some of this was clearly aimed at that _ suggesting that some of this was| clearly aimed at that constituency of voters — clearly aimed at that constituency of voters. ., ., ,, . ., , . of voters. two observations, what about the poll— of voters. two observations, what about the poll you _ of voters. two observations, what about the poll you mentioned - of voters. two observations, what i about the poll you mentioned about you god. that reminds me of the fact that pollsters and looking at the overall opinion polls which show a huge labour read at that moment of time in those snapshots, that is not enough to tell you what results would be because you need to look at the swing and individual seats you're always looking for clues that get us more deeper into what actual people will do for them and that ugov poll i think a lot of people will say is a clue about what some key people will do for them and that ugov poll i think a lot of people will say is a clue about what some people will do. that is to bear in

mind. the second thing to your point about rishi sunak dealing with reform uk, which now has nigel faraj as its leader, i thought it was notable that the first thing rishi sunak said in his closing speech was don't vote for anyone else other than me and him because it's a wasted vote. he used the first sentence of his last statement to try and stop people voting for reform. let's go back to the middle of the debate. we had a question from a woman called janet from telford and herfamily from a woman called janet from telford and her family had lots of recent experiences in the nhs. checks do not ask about waiting list. this was the first bit of audience interaction where you got some kind of laughing and jeering. this is when rishi sunak gave his answer to janet.— this is when rishi sunak gave his answer to janet. we're now making ro . ress. answer to janet. we're now making progress the _ answer to janet. we're now making progress. the waiting _ answer to janet. we're now making progress. the waiting list _ answer to janet. we're now making progress. the waiting list are - progress. the waiting list are coming down. but what keir starmer didn't mention, what you did... and didn't mention, what you did... and there are 7-5 _ didn't mention, what you did... and there are 7.5 million subs are coming — there are 7.5 million subs are coming down for the guy says is good at math _ coming down for the guy says is good at math. they are now coming down.

7.2, at math. they are now coming down. 7.2. they— at math. they are now coming down. 7.2. they a _ at math. they are now coming down. 7.2. theya 75— at math. they are now coming down. 7.2, they a 7.5 million for the pie like you — 7.2, they a 7.5 million for the pie like you to — 7.2, they a 7.5 million for the pie like you to explain how they coming down _ like you to explain how they coming down. �* .., . f like you to explain how they coming down. �* , j ., down. because they're coming down from where — down. because they're coming down from where they _ down. because they're coming down from where they were _ down. because they're coming down from where they were when - down. because they're coming down from where they were when they - down. because they're coming down l from where they were when they were higher. they are down. because the nhs was impacted by industrial action. somebody else's fault? trio. action. somebody else's fault? no, no. it action. somebody else's fault? no, n0- it doesn't _ action. somebody else's fault? no, no. it doesn't the _ action. somebody else's fault? no, no. it doesn't the thing that no debater was to do it, he got her name wrong. i would've failed in that debate. name wrong. i would've failed in that debate-— name wrong. i would've failed in that debate. . �*, ., ., , ., that debate. that's one of the bingo card we didn't _ that debate. that's one of the bingo card we didn't get _ that debate. that's one of the bingo card we didn't get tonight. - that debate. that's one of the bingo card we didn't get tonight. get - that debate. that's one of the bingo card we didn't get tonight. get the i card we didn't get tonight. get the name wrong- _ card we didn't get tonight. get the name wrong. people _ card we didn't get tonight. get the name wrong. people know - card we didn't get tonight. get the name wrong. people know the - card we didn't get tonight. get the - name wrong. people know the format, this is a mature format. chris, what did you think about how they handled the nhs? one of the things they is that labourers date didn't really happen because they talked about diane abbott instead. yes. happen because they talked about diane abbott instead.— diane abbott instead. yes, they were. diane abbott instead. yes, they were- back— diane abbott instead. yes, they were. back to _ diane abbott instead. yes, they were. back to the _ diane abbott instead. yes, they were. back to the battle - diane abbott instead. yes, they were. back to the battle of - diane abbott instead. yes, they were. back to the battle of the l were. back to the battle of the biographies first, they both did a fair smattering of that a little

exercise _ fair smattering of that a little exercise in transparency, the nature of which _ exercise in transparency, the nature of which i _ exercise in transparency, the nature of which i was doing during the debate — of which i was doing during the debate is — of which i was doing during the debate is try to assemble the five minutes— debate is try to assemble the five minutes of the best bits of the ten o'clock— minutes of the best bits of the ten o'clock news. it does mean i must hold my— o'clock news. it does mean i must hold my hands up and said not every single _ hold my hands up and said not every single pass — hold my hands up and said not every single pass to mine here. it did to ourteam— single pass to mine here. it did to our team assembling the piece to make _ our team assembling the piece to make sure — our team assembling the piece to make sure they heard everything. they— make sure they heard everything. they might be the odd sentence i need _ they might be the odd sentence i need tom — they might be the odd sentence i need tom i— they might be the odd sentence i need to... i need to watch back. after— need to... i need to watch back. after the — need to... i need to watch back. after the battle of the biographies you then _ after the battle of the biographies you then had a trade—off of statistics— you then had a trade—off of statistics put up to i remember rightly— statistics put up to i remember rightly there was a bit of laughter at the _ rightly there was a bit of laughter at the prime minister on the waiting list? , , . ., at the prime minister on the waiting list? , , . . , ., list? yes 'ust after that question and rishi list? yesjust after that question and rishi sunak _ list? yesjust after that question and rishi sunak said _ list? yesjust after that question and rishi sunak said that - list? yesjust after that question and rishi sunak said that in - list? yesjust after that question and rishi sunak said that in part| list? yes just after that question i and rishi sunak said that in part it was due _ and rishi sunak said that in part it was due to — and rishi sunak said that in part it was due to the _ and rishi sunak said that in part it was due to the industrial - and rishi sunak said that in part it was due to the industrial action i and rishi sunak said that in part it was due to the industrial action it| was due to the industrial action it caused _ was due to the industrial action it caused a — was due to the industrial action it caused a ripple _ was due to the industrial action it caused a ripple of— was due to the industrial action it caused a ripple of groaning. - was due to the industrial action it caused a ripple of groaning. it. was due to the industrial action it caused a ripple of groaning. it was janet from telford _ caused a ripple of groaning. it was janet from telford who _ caused a ripple of groaning. it was janet from telford who asked the l janet from telford who asked the question and when he said julie, he was talking tojulie who's been

hosting the debate. it's been a long day. hosting the debate. it's been a long da . g . hosting the debate. it's been a long da -. ., ., hosting the debate. it's been a long da. , day. julia and janet causing confusion. _ day. julia and janet causing confusion. it _ day. julia and janet causing confusion. it came - day. julia and janet causing confusion. it came back- day. julia and janet causing confusion. it came back to | day. julia and janet causing - confusion. it came back to that framing — confusion. it came back to that framing that if you are in rishi sunak— framing that if you are in rishi sunak position on a night like this you have — sunak position on a night like this you have to— sunak position on a night like this you have to do a past versus future formulation — you have to do a past versus future formulation. because the past inevitably is good to be tricky because _ inevitably is good to be tricky because the parties been in power for a _ because the parties been in power for a long — because the parties been in power for a long time and you can be held to account — for a long time and you can be held to account for stuff you're thinking was not _ to account for stuff you're thinking was not your fault but i would have to defend _ was not your fault but i would have to defend it anyway because it was down _ to defend it anyway because it was down by _ to defend it anyway because it was down by conservative government or whatever _ down by conservative government or whatever. and you try and do, which is what _ whatever. and you try and do, which is what they— whatever. and you try and do, which is what they try to do is set out a kind _ is what they try to do is set out a kind of— is what they try to do is set out a kind of proactive case for how they would _ kind of proactive case for how they would change things that we didn't know— would change things that we didn't know about a and inevitably if you are in _ know about a and inevitably if you are in opposition you are likely to lean guite — are in opposition you are likely to lean quite heavily on the track record — lean quite heavily on the track record of— lean quite heavily on the track record of the government that's been a power— record of the government that's been a power for— record of the government that's been a power for a long time, which polls suggest _ a power for a long time, which polls suggest is _ a power for a long time, which polls suggest is not very popular. the other good _ suggest is not very popular. tie: other good thing suggest is not very popular. tt;e: other good thing about suggest is not very popular. tt9: other good thing about these advances they don't just other good thing about these advances they don'tjust get to stick to their own script for the they have to answer questions given to them by the public and which are then built on byjulie the

presenter. then built on by julie the presenter.— then built on by julie the resenter. , , g presenter. definitely julie. definitely _ presenter. definitely julie. definitely janet _ presenter. definitely julie. definitely janet that - presenter. definitely julie. definitely janet that asked i presenter. definitely julie. - definitely janet that asked about nhs waiting list. i was right, i say modestly. that means subjects they don't want to talk about come up like climate change. and we had a chat about climate change for about eight minutes with them and young people in their prospects and all those things that we know are high on the list of voters worried for the how much did we learn when it came to climate change in their policies? came to climate change in their olicies? �* :, , , policies? i'm not sure we get very far. the policies? i'm not sure we get very far- the main _ policies? i'm not sure we get very far. the main thing _ policies? i'm not sure we get very far. the main thing i _ policies? i'm not sure we get very far. the main thing i learned - policies? i'm not sure we get very far. the main thing i learned was | far. the main thing i learned was from the question, _ far. the main thing i learned was from the question, i _ far. the main thing i learned was from the question, i can't - from the question, i can't remember the name of the person for that i'm normally good with names and faces. the question was about use bold change your mind when it comes to climate change for the action, that is true of both men.— is true of both men. absolutely. there's been — is true of both men. absolutely. there's been some _ is true of both men. absolutely. there's been some growing - is true of both men. absolutely. | there's been some growing back is true of both men. absolutely. . there's been some growing back on initial ambitions, there's been some growing back on initialambitions, let's there's been some growing back on initial ambitions, let's say. there's been some growing back on initialambitions, let's say. in there's been some growing back on initial ambitions, let's say. in the case of labour, keir starmer said we

want to go ahead with various plans of investment but when it is actually viable. there's been stuff out today from studies, there is no wiggle room, you've got nothing more to play with if you want to stick by for school rules. on the other hand you have the tories growing back on some of those commitments when it came to phasing out the sale of new petrol cars. rishi sunak we heard saying things like, there's been a cost—of—living crisis and let's be realistic about this for the that will resonate with some people as all this idea of putting back. at the same time there's this really serious issue where people say yes, how can you say you're committed to net zero when you are committing to this? . , ., net zero when you are committing to this? . , . :, , , this? that is all for this episode of newscast — this? that is all for this episode of newscast. we _ this? that is all for this episode of newscast. we recorded - this? that is all for this episode of newscast. we recorded morei this? that is all for this episode - of newscast. we recorded more stuff that we can fit into this limited television slot. if you like to hear that you can get it on the full

podcast episode of newscast which is available on bbc sound. we will be back again very soon. bye. newscast from the bbc.

welcome to newsday. reporting live from singapore, i'm steve lai. the headlines: applause rishi sunak and sir keir starmer go head—to—head in the first tv debate of the election campaign, clashing over health, immigration and tax. an alliance led by india's prime minister, narendra modi,

has won the general election, but his party has failed to secure a majority on its own. president biden imposes sweeping new measures to curb migrant arrivals at the us—mexico border. and we travel with the world war ii veterans as they prepare to mark the 80th anniversary of the d—day landings. hello and welcome to the programme. a month before voters across the uk head to the polls, rishi sunak and sir keir starmer have clashed in the first televised debate of the general election campaign. during a heated discussion, both men were repeatedly told not to talk over each other — and were even asked to lower their voices — as they sparred over key political issues, such as immigration, health and the cost of living. here's our political editor, chris mason.

is tonight the night you can turn things