welcome to hardtalk — i'm stephen sackur. hundreds of kenyan police are now patrolling the streets of port—au—prince in the latest international effort to stabilise haiti. it's hard not to be sceptical about the likely impact. 80% of the capital is controlled by armed gangs. five million haitians are experiencing food insecurity. my guest is haiti's interim prime minister, garry conille, tasked with steering his country to free and fair elections within 18 months. is that a definition of mission impossible?

prime minister garry conille, in port—au—prince, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. thank you so much for taking the time to keep the focus on the urgent, urgent needs of haiti. it is indeed important to focus on what is happening in your country. you are interim prime minister, head of government. but let us be honest with each other. how much power and control over your country do you really have right now? well, actually, through the transition compromise of april 3, we've been able to put a government, where most political parties are very much involved in the governance process, and we feel very, very happy with the progress we're making. for the first time in haitian history, we've been able to set up a government within seven days, and that government — including 18 ministers — is pretty much a consensus

of several stakeholders. and we're already putting in place very concrete efforts to try to improve the circumstances of the haitian people. we've changed the police force... we've changed the police chief — i'm sorry — with a broad consensus with the presidential council and ourselves in government. we're moving forward with the nomination of several directors, within a consensus mode. so, actually, we've actually made very good progress, and we're very happy with the way we're moving. interesting you say, "we're happy." i mean, i'm very struck thatjust one month ago, while you were visiting washington dc for important political meetings, you said this, "12,000 thugs are holding "12 million people hostage in my country." is that no longer the case? very much so. you were referring in the previous question to the fact that. . . how much power i had, and the fact that we're sharing the responsibilities of governance with some of the key stakeholders in the country.

but you are right, the circumstances of port—au—prince and, more generally, haiti have not evolved much. and for several reasons, we're still very much hostage to these thugs. 80—85% of the capital is still very much under their control. 600,000 displaced population is still a reality. half the population is food insecure. unfortunately, these haven't moved much. but, as you know, we've only been active for six weeks and we're doing our very, very best to put in place the systems to be able to respond and answer to the needs of the haitian people who have been incredibly patient... ..waiting for us to actually meet their expectations. so, in that sense... prime minister, i'm just trying to get a sense of, you know, if i'm living in haiti today, who really is most important in terms of taking decisions, making actions that control my life? i'm just thinking, for example, of the now infamous leader of the g9 — armed, violent gang — jimmy cherizier,

known to much of the world these days as barbecue. i mean, would you say that right now he has more effective power on the streets in many parts of your country than you do? absolutely not. remember, as you rightly pointed out in the beginning, 80% of the capital is still very much controlled or under the influence of these gangs. but most of the country — and that's eight out of the ten departments who are outside the capital — are still functioning pretty, pretty well. we have two departments right now that are suffering quite a bit from gang—controlled activities, but most of the country is functioning. and within the capital we are able to send kids to school. today we're having the finals for thousands of children that are taking their exams. we're helping people who are in idp camps. we're working to provide health services. we're really, really working very hard to provide the haitian people with a minimum base of services, and, as you know, barbecue is not doing that. so, these are difficult

circumstances that we're dealing with... barbecue�*s not doing that. but the haitian people will be wondering whether you're really capable of confronting and ultimately defeating him and the other armed gangs on the streets. i mean, i'm mindfulthat you've been in power for a couple of months. you've taken thejob of interior minister, as well as prime minister. but to be blunt with you, you know, you're a respected public health expert, and i believe you trained in gynaecology. do you really know how to win this war with the gangs? well, again, a few things. it hasn't been a couple of months. it's been six. this is the seventh week, and we're still working very hard. and, again, this is a consensus where we've brought together some incredible men and women that are working with us. i have more than 20 years of development, broad development in some of the hardest parts in the world. so, we do have experience that's quite relevant. and we're not doing this alone. we're doing this with the haitian people, and with them we will be successful.

sorry. sorry, pm. but who can you really rely on? we know for years that the police service in your country has been riddled with corruption. let's not forget that barbecue himself used to be a police officer. you've said, quite frankly, in recent days to the new york times, "what i need is a functioning "justice times, "what i need is a functioning justice "system and, to be honest, "i don't have that right now." so, who can you really rely on? the men and women that are working extremely hard to be able to improve the circumstances of the haitian people. while you are right — there are certain elements of the police, and that probably is the case in most countries, that are, and that have very difficult background. but at the same time, thousands of haitian men and women in the police force that are keeping us safe today, that are risking their lives to be able to make sure that we can reach the objective of elections, and a government and elected officials by february 7, 2026. there are hundreds of teachers, thousands of people at the ministry of education

that are making sure our children can have safe final exams, and they can move on with their own lives and careers. yeah, people want to move on. but the bottom line is security, isn't it? is it true thatjust a few days ago, when you were visiting a hospital, which had supposedly been taken back into government control from being under the control of one of the armed gangs, you and your security team came under fire? after the interview, on my way out of the hospital, we heard gunshots, and we're not sure who started it or towards who they were. but as you will see in the interview — if you look at it — we had pretty much completed the interview. we had done almost a0 minutes over there, and we left very safely. so, there was an incident that was towards the end, at a time where i had already been in my vehicle and leaving. and these are the realities of haiti. i don't want to sugar—coat it. we live in a country where you have, you know, 200 different gangs that are actively involved in disrupting life for no reason at all but to

terrorise the people. this is the reality we have to deal with, and it is a very serious one. i'm just hoping that your audience will get the second part of the picture, which is 12 million people that have been extremely resilient, that are dedicated to working with this transitional government, so that they can improve theirfuture. haiti is not the 200 gangs. haiti is the 12 million people that have been through all sorts of stress, and that are fighting desperately to see how they can improve their lives. so, i just want that balance to be also shared. no, understood. just one more question on the security, and your person. because itjust seems to me you took a pretty extraordinary decision to come back to your country to serve as acting prime minister, in very difficult circumstances. i know you have a family, as well. i just wonder whether you for a minute or two wondered whether it was a sensible thing for you to do? we all know what happened to president moise back in 2021.

he was assassinated, murdered in his own home. do you feel safe in haiti today? everything we are and everything we've achieved, it's because of the people in this country. so, when it came time to give back, we did not hesitate. and we've brought together some incredible men and women who have made the same decision. this is not time for fear — it's time for service. and to be honest, we don't give much thought to it when we live every day with 600,000 people who are really desperate and living under the circumstances they're living. haiti has incredible potential, and we're just trying to bring all that potential together. there is no haitian fatality. it's about getting the level of support we need from our friends from the international community, bringing together what haiti has at best to offer, and solving problems that are notjust typical to haiti. gang violence was in salvador for years, and the salvadorans came together and have begun to resolve them. so was colombia. brazil still has areas in their country that are completely

controlled by gangs. so, this is not a haiti phenomenon. now, what has not happened in the past is that the haitian people have not had the government that reflects their resilience, their courage, and their willingness to come together and fight for a betterfuture — and that's what we're trying to provide now in this interim government. you talk about interesting examples there of how different countries in your region have dealt with endemic gang violence. you talk about salvador, where there's been, you know, let's face it, a war on the gangs. and then you talk about colombia, where there's been a political process, and some of the armed militant groups have been drawn into the political process. ijust wonder, when you look at your own country, do you see a future for drawing some of the gang leaders? and maybe we can talk about barbecue himself. do you see a way of integrating him and others into the political process? well, a few things there. you know, the issue of impunity in haiti is not recent.

part of the problem that we've had is that we've had years and years of impunity. so, justice has to be a part of the solution. now, obviously, we want to keep all the tools available in our tool box. we also understand that anywhere between 30 to 50% of gang members may be children. so, how we move forward in the future, of course, will depend on a whole set of issues. but certainly right now the focus is on making sure that there's justice for the victims, reparation for the victims, and that the state can retake its authority on parts of its land. i think that's an important part for us to establish. right. but i don't think you've quite answered my very specific question aboutjimmy cherizier, barbecue, becoming a political player in haiti's future. let me just quote to you, mariano de alba, who's an adviser at the international crisis group, who does a lot of work on haiti. he says, "these are groups..." talking about cherizier�*s gang

"..that increasingly "think the only way to ensure theirfuture is to manage "some important degree of political power. for them, "it's notjust, �*let me do what i want�* "in terms of criminal activity. "it's more about, �*i want a piece of power.”' so could he ever have a piece of power? i've answered very specifically. first, there needs to bejustice, right? this is an incredibly important... so is that a no? you're ruling it out. that's a no, is it? that's a "we need justice first." and once we have justice for the haitian people, once we can give them reparation, once we can re—establish the authority of the state, we can look at the other instruments that are well known to be able to pacify our country. but it's very important as we transition to the future that we want, that we stop a cycle of more than 15 years, 50 years of impunity. that has to be part of the scenario and of the solution. and this is what we're trying to say. one thing that you have done, well, i guess you've inherited, a decision to have an

international security mission on your soil, led by, in this case, kenyan policemen. do you believe this can make a real difference? so we have two contingents of about 400 now, and we do need the help. right now, as you may know, we have about 103 police per 100,000 population. and again, when i take the cases of well—known countries that have had similar issues, certainly with much more institutional capacity, jamaica has about 306 police officers per 100,000. el salvador has 306. colombia had 608, so six times the police, plus the army. so there's no doubt in my mind that we're undermanned. and more than that, we've had 150,000 haitians leave the country in the past year and a half or so to try to secure a better future for their families. so that immediate assistance from the international community in the form of a multinationalforce is incredibly important, yet it's coming in too slow

and people are growing impatient. i guess what haitians really want to know are what are the rules of engagement for this foreign force on your soil? the global initiative against transnational organised crime has just said that there is still much uncertainty about this mission in terms of its strategy and rules of engagement. so can you clarify? do these people, for example, have the right to open fire on haitian civilians? well, their main function is to support the haitian national police and help reinforce their capacity to play their role within the community. and obviously, they are police officers, not military, and they are trained to support the police based on international rules of engagement for police officers, meaning providing every citizen with the opportunity, of course... ..in other words, with responding, if they feel that their lives are in some way threatened.

in all their operations, they're accompanied by and support the haitian national police, who, of course, abide by haitian law, which is as much as i think i can say for now. right. but does it worry you that the kenyan police have faced systemic allegations of abuse inside their own country, including allegations of extrajudicial killing? in recent months, we've seen them deployed using questionable tactics against civilian protesters, and the east africa director for human rights watch says kenya shouldn't be seen to be exporting its "abusive police" to other parts of the world. i mean, you're the prime minister of haiti. do you really want this police force on your soil? well, for now, all the support we're being provided and the collaboration, the respect for the haitian people and the haitian laws, the accompaniment of the haitian national police have been exemplary. and the respect for our laws and our operation procedures have been very, very good. and we're very happy with the accompaniment we're

receiving. so i understand there have been some concerns raised in the past, but we have no reason at this point to doubt that they will behave in a way that's consistent with international law and certainly with haitian law. well, you say you have no reason. i think, quite honestly, a lot of haitians would say you have very good reason based on historical experience. i mean, in the pretty recent past, in a period, you know, going back to 2004 all the way through to, i believe, about 2017, you had internationalforces of one sort or another on your soil. and their record, frankly, to many of your own citizens, was deeply questionable and, frankly, in many cases deeply damaging to your country. which is why i think all the effort was put in before me to design this mission so it builds on the lessons learned of the past. the role is to really accompany and support the haitian police in very strategic and very specific areas. they're not deployed all over the country, as was the case before.

they're not in the thousands, as it was before. their role and mission is very specific and contained, and we've put in place, you know, guardrails that will try to ensure that we minimise any risk of what happened in the past. so we are aware and we are very, very sensitive to the experience of the past. and as you rightly point out, this is certainly a situation that i've inherited but we're working very, very hard with our kenyan friends and partners to make sure that, as they provide us with this desperately needed support, because this is where we are now, that we're being very cautious in making sure that we're protecting the haitian people. do you think that your own region and the wider world is failing haiti right now? we're certainly very, very, very concerned. the support that has been promised is coming in too slowly. the haitian people have been extremely patient. we do have, and i will say this, a very fragile transition

team that's built on the expectation that support is coming soon. the political season will certainly not wait much longer. there will be manipulations to try to build on the very difficult situation that the haitian people are going through now. it's extremely important that the commitment that the partners, neighbours and countries have made to support this effort materialise as quickly as possible. i mean, let's be honest, the biggest donor, i think, right now to offer you assistance, both policing but also humanitarian, is the united states. they just announced a new tranche of assistance worth 110 million, and then topped that off with another 60 million for usa id projects in haiti. so let's say a couple of hundred million dollars. think about the package recently agreed for ukraine of financial and military assistance of $60 billion. think about what the us gives to israel — that is tens

of billions of dollars. what do you make of the way in which that works out for haiti in comparison with others? it is true that it is frustrating that the level of solidarity we're seeing, and notjust for the mission. let me remind you that our humanitarian appeal right now is only met at about 30%, at less than 30%. so there is no doubt in terms of 0da, development assistance, we've seen it drop to its lowest, even when we did not have a crisis. and certainly... right, and if i may, prime minister, let us just remind the audience that you've got almost half of your population living with serious food needs, food insecurity. you have tens of thousands of children who are severely malnourished right now. i mean, this is urgent. it is completely urgent. and we've made a plea, even before my current post. the humanitarian funding

is certainly unacceptably low. we need to have that support. and as you rightly point out, haitian children are not less deserving than other children in the world. and we would like to see more solidarity and obviously also in terms of development assistance, as you rightly point out, half our population is food insecure. 70% of the health infrastructure in the capital is no longer functioning. and we do have a serious security situation that is affecting the lives of over 12 million people. and this is the case we want to make. and there is an incredible window here where different political factions have been able to put together their differences, choose a prime minister that's seen, perceived as neutral, to try to get the country back on course. so, if i may, prime minister, isn't the truth that things could get worse? i mean, for example, the united states is facing a presidential election. we know that donald trump, who clearly stands a strong chance of returning to the white house, he has a pretty negative view of haiti. he used a terribly disparaging word about it. he accused haiti some years ago

of being a spreader of hiv aids into the united states. and then look at your neighbour, the dominican republic, which is continuing to build an ever higher wall to keep haitians out and is taking an extremely tough stand, deporting haitians from their territory. you're not really getting much help where it matters, are you? our commitment is first to make sure we can use our own assets as effectively as possible. and already in the past six weeks, we've tried to do so. and second, to make the plea to our friends and neighbours that we need the solidarity and we need it urgently. we're speaking to other countries in the region that are very interested in finding ways to support us. we're continuing to work with the united states, canada, the eu and other more historical partners of haiti to see how they can increase their engagement. we're looking at partners that were very much involved after the earthquake, but that have, of course, turned to other priorities. we know that the world is going through very difficult circumstances now.

the good news is that we're able to tell our partners that we do have a plan, we have a vision, we have a level of commitment. we will do our part, but we will need their help in solidarity, and we need it very, very urgently. as you said, without it, the situation risks deteriorating and deteriorating quite quickly. you took on this job of interim prime minister with a deadline. you were told that there must be free and fair elections in haiti by february 2026. to be honest with you, that looks impossible. would you agree? well, obviously, if we do not get very soon the help we need and the support we need, particularly with regards to the mission, but also with regards to humanitarian and early recovery, it will be indeed extremely difficult. but what i can tell you is this, we are committed to doing it. we're working very hard with the electoral council to put in place systems that would actually provide us

options to ensure that we have elected officials by the 7th of february. we're working very hard with the police and the two contingents of the kenyan mission that are already here, as well as the army and other factions of government to improve the security situation. there's a lot being done already with our assets and with our partners, and we're going to continue to move forward. there is no other options. we must restore democracy. we need to regain control of the territories. we need to... ..restore security and we have to do it together. now, obviously i'm not... ..i understand this will be a challenge and we're working through it, but i don't underestimate the courage of the haitian people when we put our heads together. the task seemed as impossible in 180a, when we were facing the biggest army in the world, the french, and yet we were able to get our independence. so this is about, really, bringing haitians together with the solidarity of the international community around a task that i think is very much achievable. well, we have to end there,

but, prime minister garry conille, i thank you very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk from port—au—prince. thank you. thank you so much for the opportunity. hello, there. there was some sunshine around on tuesday. there will be again on wednesday, and it looks like it should be a dry day across east anglia and the southeast this time, whereas on tuesday the rain that we had here was much slower to clear away. but it has moved away, together with that weather front, we've got low pressure bringing some wetter, windy weather towards the north west of the uk, but we've all got this west

to southwesterly wind that's blowing in cooler and fresher air, so these are the temperatures first thing in the morning. it'll be a cooler start to the day through the midlands and eastern parts of england, with some sunshine around, as well. there will be some sunshine around on wednesday. we're also going to find some showers, too, particularly across the northern half of the uk, where the winds will be a bit stronger, and some heavier rain and more persistent rain could affect northern and western scotland in the morning, followed by lots of showers, some of them heavy in the north. sunshine and showers for northern ireland. some showers near these western coasts of england and wales will get blown further inland across wales and northern england, but a good chance of staying dry towards the south east. here we've got the highest temperatures, not quite as high as tuesday, but still 23 degrees, 18 in the central belt of scotland. that low pressure bringing the stronger winds in the north, and those showers will pull away overnight, but it allows more weather systems to come in from the atlantic. so we're going to find the cloud increasing and thickening through the morning, outbreaks of rain beginning to arrive, likely to turn wetter in the afternoon across northern ireland, northern england and up into scotland. towards the south east

and east anglia, there will be very little rain at all — a lot of cloud, yes, but temperatures again 23 degrees. generally, though, those numbers are a little below average for this time of the year. now, that wetter weather that does develop tends to move away towards the north and west overnight, leaving us with some drier prospects for friday. there still could be a weather front hanging around here across southern england during the morning, with a little rain. that then moves away, we get some sunshine following on behind, showers coming into the north, particularly across the northwest of scotland, and those could be quite heavy as well, those temperatures not changing a great deal for northern areas, but it should warm up a bit through the midlands towards the southeast of england. quick look ahead to the weekend, very mixed weather, chance of some rain at times, but on sunday and particularly monday, signs of something much, much warmer across south—eastern parts of the uk.

live from london. this is bbc news. police prepare for more public disorder across the uk, as prime minister sir keir starmer promises communities they "will be safe". kamala harris announces

minnesota governor tim walz as her candidate for vice president, ahead of november's presidential election i couldn't be prouder to be on this ticket and help vice president come all we know is very, very good for us to think about. next president of the united states of america! hamas announces israel's most wanted man as the new head of the group, after political chief ismail haniyeh was killed in bombing attack last week. hello. i'm sally bundock. we start with the ongoing unrest here in the uk. the prime minister has promised communities that they will be kept safe in the face of the disorder, as police are preparing for at least 30 possible gatherings across the uk today.

sir keir starmer was speaking after chairing a meeting