a lifetime of treatment. i think it would change my life drastically, notjust mine, but many other lives with thalassaemia. to think i would never have to come for a transfusion again and have to work around, have to work my life around my transfusions, it would be crazy. james gallagher, bbc news. time for the weather. here's chris. this afternoon has been quite disappointing, with cloudy skies and outbreaks of rain working through, and it's

newly—released police

bodycam footage from last weekend's violence in liverpool which saw more than 90 officers injured. tonight the streets are calm after eight nights of protest and riot. but what lies behind the violent disorder of the past week? and as kamala harris and her vice—presidential pick head to michigan — has she overtaken donald trump in the presidential race? hello and welcome to newsnight — the home of interviews and illuminating insights. if government is as much about optics as action, a lot has changed in a week. violence and disorder have been replaced by yet another cobra

meeting chaired by the prime minister and swift and very visible court action — with sentencing, unusually, televised. tonight we're looking at what's behind what happened and what we can learn with our panel... the former brexit party mep, presenter alex philips and marvin rees, former labour mayor of bristol. also here is hannah rose, who researches extremism at the institute for strategic dialogue. but first, joe pike is here. we saw the scenes of counter—protest last night but there has today been under arrest from that site, tell us about that. under arrest from that site, tell us about that-— about that. this was perhaps unexoected _ about that. this was perhaps unexpected but _ about that. this was perhaps unexpected but it _ about that. this was perhaps unexpected but it was - about that. this was perhaps unexpected but it was a - about that. this was perhaps| unexpected but it was a video about that. this was perhaps - unexpected but it was a video that was recorded last night on social media this morning of a labour councillor, a dartford counsellor called rickyjones and this is what happened. they are disgusting,

nasty fascists and we need to cut all their throats and get rid of them all! cheering and applause. and i want to say thank you all. and... free, free! crowd: ., , palestine! free, free! palestine! thank you, god bless you all. that video went viral today and was highlighted by some politicians on the right of the political spectrum. and some progress in terms of the met police response followed and they have arrested a man in his 50s who we understand to be councillor jones on suspicion of encouraging murder and for an offence under the public order act. labour has suspended him, he is no longer a labour councillor in the party is saying his words were completely unacceptable and it will not be

tolerated. and what about the wider picture? what is the latest the government is saying and thinking when it comes to these riots? we had a cobra meeting _ when it comes to these riots? we had a cobra meeting tonight _ when it comes to these riots? we had a cobra meeting tonight and - when it comes to these riots? we had a cobra meeting tonight and from - a cobra meeting tonight and from conversations with people who work in number 10 and in government, there is an astonishing message of discipline, they say it is not over and we have not turned the corner and we have not turned the corner and we have not turned the corner and we are not complacent and they are sticking to the key messages we have repeatedly heard in the last few days. firstly on having the right public order trained officers in the right places and pointing towards sentences, significant sentences in some cases, and using that as a warning to try to change behaviour. the other thing i have found interesting as people do not really want to talk about, certainly within government, the underlining causes of this and conversations have been going on with social media companies in the technology secretary is speaking to representatives and there might be progress to put pressure on the government from the city can in the

guardian tomorrow but those conversations do not really seem to be something that keir starmer his team want to talk about, partly because they are worried about what could happen and they want to keep the core message to the public on what i have just discussed, trying to change behaviour. and also perhaps their critics might argue, because they are difficult conversations that would require all of us in society to look at ourselves and our experiences. we can ick ourselves and our experiences. we can pick some of this up with hannah rose, she is a hate and extremism analyst at the institute for strategic dialogue where you research far—right extremism and anti—semitism online. you know these people, what is your view on what is behind what has been happening? there is no one reason why somebody might— there is no one reason why somebody might become engaged in far—right extremism, we know that radicalisation happens across the spectrum — radicalisation happens across the spectrum and there are a number of reasons_ spectrum and there are a number of reasons why— spectrum and there are a number of reasons why someone might have vulnerabilities towards becoming

radicalised. someone might be socially— radicalised. someone might be socially isolated, we have seen in the last _ socially isolated, we have seen in the last few years a number of young people _ the last few years a number of young pecule who _ the last few years a number of young people who have been convicted of offences _ people who have been convicted of offences saying i was just trying to be cool _ offences saying i was just trying to be cool and to fit in and it is sometimes built into this feeling of teenage _ sometimes built into this feeling of teenage rebellion and counterculture and general keenness to promote violence _ and general keenness to promote violence among communities. there is no one _ violence among communities. there is no one thing _ violence among communities. there is no one thing that explains radicalisation but what we do know is that_ radicalisation but what we do know is that on— radicalisation but what we do know is that on social media, where hate and extremist content is more accessible, young people as well as people _ accessible, young people as well as people from all different ages and backgrounds, are increasingly able to access _ backgrounds, are increasingly able to access this information and these vulnerabilities, they are able to become — vulnerabilities, they are able to become exploited. this vulnerabilities, they are able to become exploited.— vulnerabilities, they are able to become exloited. , , , ., . become exploited. this seems to have srunu u, become exploited. this seems to have sprung up. for— become exploited. this seems to have sprung up. for many — become exploited. this seems to have sprung up, for many it _ become exploited. this seems to have sprung up, for many it appeared - become exploited. this seems to have sprung up, for many it appeared to - sprung up, for many it appeared to spring up out of nowhere and apparently die away fast. what has happened? has it gone underground again? happened? has it gone underground auain? , ., again? online extremist networks, were a lot of _ again? online extremist networks, were a lot of this _ again? online extremist networks, were a lot of this is _ again? online extremist networks, were a lot of this is mobilised, - were a lot of this is mobilised, anti—muslim hate and anti—migrant

hate has _ anti—muslim hate and anti—migrant hate has long been promoted and it has long _ hate has long been promoted and it has long been a far—right tactic to throw— has long been a far—right tactic to throw everything out and see what bites _ throw everything out and see what bites and — throw everything out and see what bites and in this situation the background has been such that far-right— background has been such that far—right communities have managed to mobilise _ far—right communities have managed to mobilise towards violence offline as welt _ to mobilise towards violence offline as welt it _ to mobilise towards violence offline as well. it is not necessarily over yet _ as well. it is not necessarily over yet we — as well. it is not necessarily over yet. we have seen on social media that there — yet. we have seen on social media that there are protests planned for the weekend, who knows whether that is someone _ the weekend, who knows whether that is someone trying to stoke fear and tension _ is someone trying to stoke fear and tension or— is someone trying to stoke fear and tension or whether that will come to fruition _ tension or whether that will come to fruition but— tension or whether that will come to fruition. but we know the combination of policing, of increased public consciousness about this issue _ increased public consciousness about this issue has meant that for the moment— this issue has meant that for the moment there has been less offline activity— moment there has been less offline activity but online it is still very racist _ activity but online it is still very racist and — activity but online it is still very racist and violent, i am afraid. based — racist and violent, i am afraid. based on _ racist and violent, i am afraid. based on what you have seen and what you know previously, we learned anything new this week about the movement, if it is a movement? and what can be done to counter that? we know this movement has its roots in

often _ know this movement has its roots in often football hooliganism and we see different parts of the far—right engage _ see different parts of the far—right engage in— see different parts of the far—right engage in this type of violence so we see _ engage in this type of violence so we see actors trying to stoke what they perceive as racial tensions and really— they perceive as racial tensions and really try— they perceive as racial tensions and really try to — they perceive as racial tensions and really try to promote hate among communities. what we have learnt is a difficult _ communities. what we have learnt is a difficult question because we know that this _ a difficult question because we know that this has long been an issue, the online — that this has long been an issue, the online safety act is still fully coming — the online safety act is still fully coming into force and well over the next few _ coming into force and well over the next few years and there is a big question— next few years and there is a big question for social media companies about— question for social media companies about the _ question for social media companies about the availability of misinformation and hateful comment. 0fcom _ misinformation and hateful comment. 0fcom said _ misinformation and hateful comment. ofcom said you don't have to wait for that to a social media companies can act now. for that to a social media companies can act now— can act now. they should have of service in — can act now. they should have of service in place _ can act now. they should have of service in place to _ can act now. they should have of service in place to moderate - can act now. they should have of i service in place to moderate hateful contact _ service in place to moderate hateful contact and — service in place to moderate hateful contact and anti—muslim and anti—migrant content but that has not happened and we have seen the impacts— not happened and we have seen the impacts of— not happened and we have seen the impacts of that over the last ten days _ impacts of that over the last ten da s. ., ., impacts of that over the last ten da 5. ., ., , ., impacts of that over the last ten da s. ., ., ,, ~ impacts of that over the last ten da s. ., ~ , days. how do you think the people ou stud days. how do you think the people you study will _ days. how do you think the people you study will view _ days. how do you think the people you study will view the _ days. how do you think the people you study will view the events - days. how do you think the people you study will view the events of l you study will view the events of this week? will they see it, it is hard to generalise, but will they see it as a victory or as a warning?

far—right communities are very keen to frame _ far—right communities are very keen to frame everything is a victory so you will, — to frame everything is a victory so you will, you have seen clips of the protest _ you will, you have seen clips of the protest being shown around social media _ protest being shown around social media showing this is the moment and now is— media showing this is the moment and now is the _ media showing this is the moment and now is the time to act. really trying — now is the time to act. really trying to— now is the time to act. really trying to stoke the flame and mobilise _ trying to stoke the flame and mobilise based on what has been happening. mobilise based on what has been ha eninu. ., mobilise based on what has been hauuenin, ., ,. , ., ., mobilise based on what has been | happening-_ lt happening. that is celebratory? it is and obviously _ happening. that is celebratory? it is and obviously far-right - is and obviously far—right extremists from around the globe are able to— extremists from around the globe are able to access these forums and we see overseas people calling for it to be _ see overseas people calling for it to be mimicked and to learn from the tactics _ to be mimicked and to learn from the tactics as— to be mimicked and to learn from the tactics as well. is to be mimicked and to learn from the tactics as well. is it to be mimicked and to learn from the tactics as well-— tactics as well. is it the biggest thin that tactics as well. is it the biggest thing that has _ tactics as well. is it the biggest thing that has happened - tactics as well. is it the biggest thing that has happened on - tactics as well. is it the biggest i thing that has happened on those platforms for some time in terms of people celebrating? is it the biggest thing to celebrate? there is a lot of attention _ biggest thing to celebrate? there is a lot of attention on _ biggest thing to celebrate? there is a lot of attention on it _ a lot of attention on it unfortunately and calls for it to continue. — unfortunately and calls for it to continue, for more anti—migrant and anti-muslim — continue, for more anti—migrant and anti—muslim hate but also sowing fear in _ anti—muslim hate but also sowing fear in communities and extremists will seek— fear in communities and extremists will seek to do that.— fear in communities and extremists will seek to do that. what about the eo - le ou will seek to do that. what about the people you have _ will seek to do that. what about the people you have been _ will seek to do that. what about the people you have been speaking - will seek to do that. what about the people you have been speaking to l people you have been speaking to over the years? not the people on the streets but people might have

sympathies. would there be put off by what they have seen or would it make them feel they are not alone? difficult to say, there is a range of people — difficult to say, there is a range of people at these protests, from the very— of people at these protests, from the very ardent right supremacists to those _ the very ardent right supremacists to those who may not realise what they are _ to those who may not realise what they are doing is racist or violent but they— they are doing is racist or violent but they go along because a trusted figure _ but they go along because a trusted figure in their life is going along. and so they engage this, in this violence — and so they engage this, in this violence not understanding this is the case — violence not understanding this is the case and it is important we put in place a — the case and it is important we put in place a long—term counter extremism strategy to address violence — extremism strategy to address violence from the root causes and risk factors— violence from the root causes and risk factors i have discussed, including _ risk factors i have discussed, including increasing social cohesion, digital literacy, actual investment in local communities to address— investment in local communities to address a _ investment in local communities to address a broad range of risk factors, _ address a broad range of risk factors, a _ address a broad range of risk factors, a symptom of which is this violence _ factors, a symptom of which is this violence. ., ~ factors, a symptom of which is this violence. ., ,, , ., today more of the those involved in the rioting have been sentenced. judge andrew menary gave a blunt

assessment of the actions of one man, john o'malley, in liverpool crown court. there is very clear footage showing the developing disorder, and you were at the front of what was essentially a baying mob. you were part of a surge that broke through police lines and you were standing next to a police vehicle that was being destroyed. you were present while missiles of every description were raining down on the officers, including bricks, traffic cones, wheelie bins, road signs, tins of paint and the occasional firework. it was relentless and you were at the front and participating enthusiastically. let's bring in our panel — broadcaster alex phillips, and former mayor of bristol marvin rees. thank you for being here. alex, can we start with you? we have seen one example of people being sentenced and there are many people who have been sentenced over the last few

days. how do you think people ended up in this situation? who; days. how do you think people ended up in this situation?— up in this situation? why are they doinu up in this situation? why are they doin: it? up in this situation? why are they doing it? it _ up in this situation? why are they doing it? it is _ up in this situation? why are they doing it? it is such _ up in this situation? why are they doing it? it is such a _ up in this situation? why are they doing it? it is such a myriad, - doing it? it is such a myriad, complex causes going on here which takes an amount of nuance to unpack. i would say there are social or economic reasons and factors of huge demographic change within certain communities of the perception within these communities of how that is impacting them with something else we need to do is start looking at the way we have been using language inappropriately, often weaponising it and militarising it, from one site to the other. we have become more tribal, it is like point—scoring, this site has done this and this side has done that. i think part of the reason for that is for too long we have been encouraged to look at everything through the prism of identity. and when you start encouraging people to basically put on he is this racism of goggles, what you end up with is racism and communities feeling they are pitted against one another and

what we need to do is heed the words of martin luther king, judge people by the content of the character and not the colour of their skin and that applies to both sides, to both people with racist inclinations but also to people who perhaps could be accused of trying to over correct by pushing concepts such as white privilege. pushing concepts such as white rivilere. ., pushing concepts such as white rivilere. . .,, ., pushing concepts such as white ”rivilee_ ., .,, ., , privilege. that has not been happening _ privilege. that has not been happening here. _ privilege. that has not been happening here. i— privilege. that has not been happening here. i know- privilege. that has not been| happening here. i know what privilege. that has not been - happening here. i know what you're sa inc... happening here. i know what you're saying--- this— happening here. i know what you're saying... this is _ happening here. i know what you're saying... this is the _ happening here. i know what you're saying... this is the ground - happening here. i know what you're saying... this is the ground that. saying... this is the ground that builds resentment which extremists on both sides will try to capitalise on. in the same way that after there have been terrorist interests we have been terrorist interests we have to take stock and say this is a tiny faction within a broader community, we also have to be quite clear here that when we see thuggery and violence on the streets, this is not representative of a lot of people out there who do have genuine concerns. what you have to remember is in this country over the past three or four decades, is in this country over the past three orfour decades, we have is in this country over the past three or four decades, we have lost heavy industry and the armed forces

have been cut in half and all of the industries in which a lot of these young men who have frankly become disenfranchised and disengaged used to be employed and make good money have gone. at the same time we are importing a lot of foreign labour because it is cheaper for capitalist companies and so these young men don't have the dignity of work and at the same time they are accused of being lazy, the things they used to find respite in, the comedy they would enjoy is being cancelled. the artists in the cultural scenes that used to thrive from the working classes have all but disappeared and they are increasingly feeling as though they are being blamed for everything so it has brewed up a lot of resentment and it is all very well when we have moments of reflection after the riots in croydon and after the blm protests and ask what do we do, perhaps we need to take stock of why there is such resentment now within the white working classes. i such resentment now within the white working classes-— working classes. i wonder what you think about — working classes. i wonder what you think about that _ working classes. i wonder what you think about that and _ working classes. i wonder what you think about that and what - working classes. i wonder what you think about that and what you - working classes. i wonder what you think about that and what you think the wider causes are?—

the wider causes are? there is a bunch of things _ the wider causes are? there is a bunch of things and _ the wider causes are? there is a bunch of things and that - the wider causes are? there is a bunch of things and that i - the wider causes are? there is a bunch of things and that i could | bunch of things and that i could pick up — bunch of things and that i could pick up on _ bunch of things and that i could pick up on. i start with this, any political— pick up on. i start with this, any political framework or analysis that leaves _ political framework or analysis that leaves relatively powerless people blaming _ leaves relatively powerless people blaming other powerless people for the state _ blaming other powerless people for the state of their lives is suspect. when _ the state of their lives is suspect. when i look for causality look for power— when i look for causality look for power and — when i look for causality look for power and where decision—making is in the _ power and where decision—making is in the truth — power and where decision—making is in the truth of it is, it has been going _ in the truth of it is, it has been going on— in the truth of it is, it has been going on for some time but over the past 14— going on for some time but over the past 14 years in particular, the framework has been developed at a national— framework has been developed at a national level amongst respectable political— national level amongst respectable political leaders that has said that one of— political leaders that has said that one of the — political leaders that has said that one of the number one challenges in this country— one of the number one challenges in this country is immigration. and it is thrown — this country is immigration. and it is thrown up — this country is immigration. and it is thrown up as a threat, it was an election— is thrown up as a threat, it was an election campaign issue. that has offered _ election campaign issue. that has offered respectability or a respectable framework shall two deplorable actions by individuals on the streets. on the issue of race, i am mixed—race, white motherand a black— am mixed—race, white motherand a black father — am mixed—race, white motherand a black father and came from jamaica

and i_ black father and came from jamaica and i can— black father and came from jamaica and i can talk about race while also making _ and i can talk about race while also making space for the reality that my white _ making space for the reality that my white grandmother from merthyr tydfil— white grandmother from merthyr tydfil experienced white deprivation.— tydfil experienced white derivation. . , , deprivation. that is my question here, this _ deprivation. that is my question here. this is _ deprivation. that is my question here, this is a _ deprivation. that is my question here, this is a problem - deprivation. that is my question here, this is a problem that - deprivation. that is my question here, this is a problem that we | deprivation. that is my question i here, this is a problem that we are having because it is almost as if saying only a certain side of the argument has a monopoly on saying they feel left out or disenfranchised. �* ::' ~ �* disenfranchised. after 2016, didn't we hear about _ disenfranchised. after 2016, didn't we hear about people _ we hear about people being disenfranchised? the we hear about people being disenfranchised?— we hear about people being disenfranchised? , disenfranchised? the left behind? did we start _ disenfranchised? the left behind? did we start listening _ disenfranchised? the left behind? did we start listening to _ disenfranchised? the left behind? did we start listening to them? i l did we start listening to them? i don't think we did. i will not interrupt _ don't think we did. i will not interrupt. i. if! don't think we did. i will not interrupt. i. if i get cut off. one of the _ interrupt. i. if i get cut off. one of the things i have noticed over the last— of the things i have noticed over the last few years when looking at nigel— the last few years when looking at nigel farage and donald trump, it is a long _ nigel farage and donald trump, it is a long list— nigel farage and donald trump, it is a long list of moaning about how bad life is— a long list of moaning about how bad life is and _ a long list of moaning about how bad life is and in— a long list of moaning about how bad life is and in a way i have learnt over— life is and in a way i have learnt over the — life is and in a way i have learnt over the years you don't get to complain — over the years you don't get to complain about life in terms of racism — complain about life in terms of racism with free abandon as we have heard _ racism with free abandon as we have heard from _ racism with free abandon as we have heard from some of those leaders. and much—

heard from some of those leaders. and much of the motivation, part of my frustration with that leadership in many— my frustration with that leadership in many ways as they have gone to a section— in many ways as they have gone to a section of— in many ways as they have gone to a section of society that has been left behind by the global economy, has lost _ left behind by the global economy, has lost trust in politics, has lost any sense — has lost trust in politics, has lost any sense of the national narrative but all _ any sense of the national narrative but all they have done is indulged with their— but all they have done is indulged with their sense of frustration and their— with their sense of frustration and their misery on what they have not done _ their misery on what they have not done is _ their misery on what they have not done is put — their misery on what they have not done is put real solutions on the table _ done is put real solutions on the table. they have wallowed in that pity _ table. they have wallowed in that pity. using it for political ends. that— pity. using it for political ends. that is— pity. using it for political ends. that is not— pity. using it for political ends. that is not the conversation i wanted — that is not the conversation i wanted to— that is not the conversation i wanted to have as a leader of the city that— wanted to have as a leader of the city that needed real practical solutions and notjust indulging in building _ solutions and notjust indulging in building but the point is, if you -et building but the point is, if you get to— building but the point is, if you get to the _ building but the point is, if you get to the point again... if you end ”p get to the point again... if you end up blaming— get to the point again... if you end up blaming powerless people for the state of _ up blaming powerless people for the state of the world, it is a problematic framework and again, if you start _ problematic framework and again, if you start to— problematic framework and again, if you start to say that pointing out that race — you start to say that pointing out that race along with gender and disability and class have been factors— disability and class have been factors in— disability and class have been factors in shaping the world to be what _ factors in shaping the world to be what it— factors in shaping the world to be what it is, — factors in shaping the world to be what it is, that somehow that causes the problem that is describing, but is suspect —

there is a lot of people who continue get what they want, but they don't resort to street violence. they don't resort to street violence-— they don't resort to street violence. , , ., ., violence. yes, but i have made it clear the violence _ violence. yes, but i have made it clear the violence a _ violence. yes, but i have made it clear the violence a minority. - violence. yes, but i have made it clear the violence a minority. a l violence. yes, but i have made it. clear the violence a minority. a lot of muslims may feel disenfranchised, but don't plan bomb attacks. i think there is a class of people who feel bullied and silenced and judged. they're feeling as if they don't matter. there are extremist who capitalise on that. that is the fertile ground of resentment in which they will start to turn people to their side and their narrative. but what we can't do and say it is not respectable to talk about immigration or their concerns are not valid. you're denying them a voice and they're not going to be oxford graduate with the language to commune i kate. communicate. we

shouldn't say you're the problem. i don't think people are closing down conversations. that don't think people are closing down conversations.— conversations. that is the feeling. does the government _ conversations. that is the feeling. does the government have - does the government have responsibility to meet that demand, the demand for immigration control? i don't think we have been lack ing a conversation on immigration in the last years _ a conversation on immigration in the last years it— a conversation on immigration in the last years. it is on every week. it is not _ last years. it is on every week. it is not whether there is a conversation about immigration or not that— conversation about immigration or not that is— conversation about immigration or not that is the issue, it is the quality— not that is the issue, it is the quality of— not that is the issue, it is the quality of the conversation and that people _ quality of the conversation and that people are — quality of the conversation and that people are being led to believe that immigration is their no 1 people are being led to believe that immigration is their no1 issue. i recognise — immigration is their no1 issue. i recognise the fact, i know you're a brexiteer, — recognise the fact, i know you're a brexiteer, but my issue with brexit is it was— brexiteer, but my issue with brexit is it was the — brexiteer, but my issue with brexit is it was the wrong answer to the right— is it was the wrong answer to the right question. it was true people didn't— right question. it was true people didn't trust politicians and had lost a — didn't trust politicians and had lost a national narrative. what has been _ lost a national narrative. what has been put _ lost a national narrative. what has been put on — lost a national narrative. what has been put on the table by these agitators — been put on the table by these agitators and i could call them predators, is they're not putting

solutions— predators, is they're not putting solutions forward, it profits them, but it _ solutions forward, it profits them, but it doesn't actually take us as a country— but it doesn't actually take us as a country any— but it doesn't actually take us as a country any further forward. i think the more _ country any further forward. i think the more division you sow as well, the more division you sow as well, the weaker— the more division you sow as well, the weaker you make it, the more you undermine _ the weaker you make it, the more you undermine our sovereignty and the less effective we are on the global stage _ less effective we are on the global stage and — less effective we are on the global stage and it is anti—patriotic. there — stage and it is anti—patriotic. there has— stage and it is anti—patriotic. there has been a massive conversation about immigration and i would argue a lot of these people who we have termed the left behind voted for a conservative government, because they promised to reduce immigration, voted for brexit, because they felt it the meant taking control of their borders and the opposite has happened. i don't think it is fair, we have got to not be reducktive, but constructive. what has happened is we have been forced to believe all immigration must be good or bad. there must be nuance and as well as looking at the

economic side of it, that is having a huge impact, and the post—covid blow back has added fuel to the flames here, there are definitely cultural impacts. we are not talking about them. we cultural impacts. we are not talking about them-— cultural impacts. we are not talking about them. ~ ., ., ., ., ., about them. we are going to have to move on. about them. we are going to have to move on- the _ about them. we are going to have to move on. the problem _ about them. we are going to have to move on. the problem is _ about them. we are going to have to move on. the problem is they - about them. we are going to have to move on. the problem is they were l move on. the problem is they were fake solutions. _ move on. the problem is they were fake solutions. that _ move on. the problem is they were fake solutions. that is _ move on. the problem is they were fake solutions. that is why - move on. the problem is they were fake solutions. that is why people i fake solutions. that is why people are disappointed. not because leaders — are disappointed. not because leaders did not implement the policy that people wanted. the problem is that people wanted. the problem is that those _ that people wanted. the problem is that those solutions, be it brexit or the _ that those solutions, be it brexit or the war— that those solutions, be it brexit or the war on immigration or stop the boats. — or the war on immigration or stop the boats, that are being offered, will not _ the boats, that are being offered, will not solve the challenges facing or marginalised communities, whatever their colour. we or marginalised communities, whatever their colour. we have to stop there- _ we're going to turn to the us, because two days on from kamala harris�* vice presidential pick, what can be read into polls that suggest she has edged ahead in the race? these come with obvious caveats — not least that she and tim walz have been the focus of media attention in recent days and, of course, that there are nearly three months to go until the election.

donald trump today appeared in public for the first time since the full democrat ticket was announced. the republican contender said he wants to debate his rival three times in september. and he had this to say about his current standing in the polls. fortunately, we've had some very good polls over the last fairly short period of time, rasmussen came out today, we are substantially leading and others came out today that we're leading and in some cases substantially. ms, nbc came out, or cnbc came out also with a poll that has us leading and leading fairly big in swing states. in some states i'm leading very big in swing states, because they want safety, people want safety, they want security, they want respect all around the world for our country. we're going to turn to the us, because two days lakshya jain, political data anlayst from split ticket, joins us now. is donald trump right about the polls? hi, thank you for having me. no, i

don't think he is fairly representing the state of polls. while it is true he was ahead in the rasmussen poll and the cnbc poll of events, he has trailed in several other high quality surveys taken this week. the aggregate picture suggests while donald trump enjoys a sizeable advantage less than a month ago that advantage has been erased and kamala harris has been leading the vast majority of polls. lanthem and kamala harris has been leading the vast majority of polls.— the vast ma'ority of polls. when it comes to the vast majority of polls. when it comes to swing — the vast majority of polls. when it comes to swing states, _ the vast majority of polls. when it comes to swing states, you - the vast majority of polls. when it comes to swing states, you have l the vast majority of polls. when it - comes to swing states, you have done some polling, what is that show something == some polling, what is that show somethin: , ., ~ some polling, what is that show somethina , ., . ., ., something -- showing? we have and the election — something -- showing? we have and the election is _ something -- showing? we have and the election is not _ something -- showing? we have and the election is not decided _ something -- showing? we have and the election is not decided by - something -- showing? we have and the election is not decided by the - the election is not decided by the national popular vote, but who wins the most votes in the electoral college. there are seven swing states, three are the most

important, joe biden won those states by 1.6% in 2020 and our polling found that when he dropped out he was trailing by six in those states. kamala harris was trailing by seven. no less than just three weeks ago. now, however our new poll finds thatjoe biden, or kamala harris is actually ahead in michigan, wisconsin and pence vina. —— pennsylvania. what is behind it, is it because they're in the media right now? it is it because they're in the media right now?— right now? it is partly to do with a bunch of earned _ right now? it is partly to do with a bunch of earned media _ right now? it is partly to do with a bunch of earned media that - right now? it is partly to do with a bunch of earned media that is - bunch of earned media that is positive for kamala harris and also to do with the fact that by the end of biden's cycle he had lost a lot of biden's cycle he had lost a lot of voters that had just voted for him in 2020 and a lot of swing voters, they had been very sour on him. he struggled with non—white

voters throughout the campaign. now even white voters had abandoned him. kamala harris has made massive gains with the white voters and that is critical because in these swing states most of the voters are white and it means that she has edged ahead of donald trump in that region. ahead of donald trump in that reuion. ~ ., , ., ahead of donald trump in that reuion. ., , , region. were any of the pollsters ”redictin region. were any of the pollsters predicting that — region. were any of the pollsters predicting that this _ region. were any of the pollsters predicting that this would - region. were any of the pollsters| predicting that this would happen evenifjoe predicting that this would happen even ifjoe biden did drop out? trio. even ifjoe biden did drop out? no, never in a even ifjoe biden did drop out? idfr, never in a million years. never in a million years. never in a million years. never in a million years-— never in a million years. never in a million years._ because i million years. why not? because there was no _ million years. why not? because there was no data _ million years. why not? because there was no data whatsoever. million years. why not? because i there was no data whatsoever that suggested that kamala harris could do this. there was no past precedent that suggested that she could do this. her2019 that suggested that she could do this. her 2019 presidential campaign went up in flames and in polling that was taken before biden dropped out, harris did not poll better than

biden. and herfavourability ratings were not good. 50% of americans disapproved of her. but all of a sudden, after she launched, her favourability has increased. please stick with us. _ favourability has increased. please stick with us. i _ favourability has increased. please stick with us. i would _ favourability has increased. please stick with us. i would like - favourability has increased. please stick with us. i would like to - favourability has increased. please stick with us. i would like to bringl stick with us. i would like to bring in our panel. marvin rees, you spent a lot of time in the united states, what is your sense of how it is going? what is your sense of how it is auoin ? what is your sense of how it is ioini ? ., , what is your sense of how it is uroin? , what is your sense of how it is ioini? ,,, i, what is your sense of how it is ioiin? ,,, i, going? one, iwas shocked myself. i favoured democrats _ going? one, iwas shocked myself. i favoured democrats in _ going? one, iwas shocked myself. i favoured democrats in the _ going? one, iwas shocked myself. i favoured democrats in the united i favoured democrats in the united states. _ favoured democrats in the united states, i'm not a trump voter, well i states, i'm not a trump voter, well i can't _ states, i'm not a trump voter, well i can't vote — states, i'm not a trump voter, well ican't vote in— states, i'm not a trump voter, well i can't vote in the united states. i was surprised she scape through. while _ was surprised she scape through. while —— came through. but while i was there. — while —— came through. but while i was there, you can taste that surge in energy— was there, you can taste that surge in energy and enthusiasm among democrats. what i am wary of, there is a long _ democrats. what i am wary of, there is a long way— democrats. what i am wary of, there is a long way to go. and the us is a

lot of— is a long way to go. and the us is a lot of different countries and people — lot of different countries and people live in different communities. trump voters will vote trump _ communities. trump voters will vote trump whatever. the question is, has indicated _ trump whatever. the question is, has indicated by— trump whatever. the question is, has indicated by our pollster, is has the you — indicated by our pollster, is has the you know the surge in democratic enthusiasm _ the you know the surge in democratic enthusiasm be enough to have... have harris leap _ enthusiasm be enough to have... have harris leap over trump in the election _ harris leap over trump in the election. �* harris leap over trump in the election-— harris leap over trump in the election. �* ,, ., .,~ election. alex phillips do you take a view, election. alex phillips do you take a view. what _ election. alex phillips do you take a view, what do _ election. alex phillips do you take a view, what do you _ election. alex phillips do you take a view, what do you want - election. alex phillips do you take a view, what do you want to i election. alex phillips do you take a view, what do you want to see l election. alex phillips do you take l a view, what do you want to see win the election? do you have a favoured candidate. trio the election? do you have a favoured candidate. ., �* ., ., ~ candidate. no i'm not an american. it is their affair. _ candidate. no i'm not an american. it is their affair. as _ candidate. no i'm not an american. it is their affair. as long as - it is their affair. as long as somebody who can lead the free world and bring back respectability and america has become cartoonish and is at war with itself like here. after the assassination attempts on donald trump every commentator said it is in the bag and it has changed. if you have watched american series, the dynamic changes every five

minutes. i think that is what we will be in for. i minutes. i think that is what we will be in for.— minutes. i think that is what we will be in for. i want to talk about the tone of— will be in for. i want to talk about the tone of the _ will be in for. i want to talk about the tone of the campaign. - will be in for. i want to talk about the tone of the campaign. let's l the tone of the campaign. let's listen. this is a clip from the democrat side that sets the tone at the moment. i gotta tell you, pointing outjust an observation of mine that i made, ijust have to say it, you know it, you feel it, these guys are creepy and just weird as hell! that's what you see, that's what you see! that was tim wals the new vice—presidential pick. he has been using these terms, weird, we had a pollster on the programme the other day saying it doesn't work. lou how do you assess the tone, the democrats seem more punchy. i do think the president of the united states— think the president of the united states matters. i do have an interest _ states matters. i do have an interest and i'm interested in it, because — interest and i'm interested in it, because it — interest and i'm interested in it, because it has consequences here and actually— because it has consequences here and actually through my affinity with

america — actually through my affinity with america there is a dynamic there. my bias says. _ america there is a dynamic there. my bias says, yes, he is right, they are a _ bias says, yes, he is right, they are a bit— bias says, yes, he is right, they are a bit strange. if you look at the way— are a bit strange. if you look at the way trump and vance have gone about _ the way trump and vance have gone about it _ the way trump and vance have gone about it as— the way trump and vance have gone about it as well, the way they have undertaken — about it as well, the way they have undertaken their campaign and attacked — undertaken their campaign and attacked has been a very demoralising for the quality of democracy. demoralising for the quality of democracy-— demoralising for the quality of democra . ~ ., , ., democracy. would you use that [an i ua i e democracy. would you use that language about _ democracy. would you use that language about your _ democracy. would you use that | language about your opponents. democracy. would you use that i language about your opponents. i wouldn't. language about your opponents. i wouldn't- do _ language about your opponents. i wouldn't. do you _ language about your opponents. i wouldn't. do you think— language about your opponents. i wouldn't. do you think it - language about your opponents. i wouldn't. do you think it is - language about your opponents. i wouldn't. do you think it is fair. i wouldn't. do you think it is fair. it shows what _ wouldn't. do you think it is fair. it shows what i _ wouldn't. do you think it is fair. it shows what i said, _ wouldn't. do you think it is fair. it shows what i said, that i wouldn't. do you think it is fair. it shows what i said, that the i it shows what i said, that the degradation of politics into cartoonish narratives, he is weird, she is a crook. people want to know they have politician s who have solutions. what we have seen with biden's declining health, the country could still operate at a time of international crisis, so what i want is stability from america francely, whatever —— frankly whoever is in change. i think trump did get some things and

he has done terrible things with his narrative.