adequate for compensation ever be adequate for what people have gone through. if you want to join us what people have gone through. if you want tojoin us phoning, you can text us as well. louise in leeds, hello,. ., text us as well. louise in leeds, hello,.- and _ text us as well. louise in leeds, hello,.- and glen - text us as well. louise in leeds, hello,.- and glen in - text us as well. louise in leeds, hello,.- and glen in hull. text us as well. louise in leeds, i hello,.- and glen in hull and hello,. hello. and glen in hull and mark near— hello,. hello. and glen in hull and mark near brighton. _ hello,. hello. and glen in hull and mark near brighton. all— hello,. hello. and glen in hull and mark near brighton. all of- hello,. hello. and glen in hull and mark near brighton. all of you - hello,. helln and glen in hull and mark near brighton. all of you are going to want to talk about this and i know many people are wanting to hear because we cannot hear this enough, such as the enormity of this scandal. i think many people, i am seeing this on the text as well. people are struggling to get our heads around what happened and the scale of the scandal and how it happened in our country so recently, louise. , . , happened in our country so recently,

louise. , .,, , happened in our country so recently, louise. , ., , ., happened in our country so recently, louise. , , ., ., ., louise. yes it has been going on for far too long — louise. yes it has been going on for far too long now. _ louise. yes it has been going on for far too long now. we _ louise. yes it has been going on for far too long now. we lost _ louise. yes it has been going on for far too long now. we lost my - louise. yes it has been going on for far too long now. we lost my dad i far too long now. we lost my dad in 1985 and we believe he was infected in the late 70s but we don't actually know. it has been a long road for everybody involved. mas actually know. it has been a long road for everybody involved. was he a haemophiliac? _ road for everybody involved. was he a haemophiliac? yes— road for everybody involved. was he a haemophiliac? yes he _ road for everybody involved. was he a haemophiliac? yes he was - road for everybody involved. was he | a haemophiliac? yes he was infected with hiv and — a haemophiliac? yes he was infected with hiv and then _ a haemophiliac? yes he was infected with hiv and then what _ a haemophiliac? yes he was infected with hiv and then what became - with hiv and then what became hepatitis a. —— hepatitis c how old were you when he died? i was only a little. , , ., ., ., were you when he died? i was only a little. , ., ., . , little. did you have a concept what was auoin little. did you have a concept what was going on? _ little. did you have a concept what was going on? my _ little. did you have a concept what was going on? my mum _ little. did you have a concept what was going on? my mum and dad i little. did you have a concept what - was going on? my mum and dad never lied about the — was going on? my mum and dad never lied about the fact _ was going on? my mum and dad never lied about the fact that _ was going on? my mum and dad never lied about the fact that he _ was going on? my mum and dad never lied about the fact that he was - was going on? my mum and dad never lied about the fact that he was a - lied about the fact that he was a haemophiliac so seeing him having injections, going to the hospital with him, it was part of our lives. they never hid it. we knew he didn't walk normally but they didn't tell

us about the hiv infection because at the time i probably would have been nine or ten when they found out, my mum, bless her, she kept it to herself and had to live through that. you ask me how it felt, literally my world ended. my dad was gone. at literally my world ended. my dad was one. . ., , ~ ., gone. of course it did. and of course at _ gone. of course it did. and of course at that _ gone. of course it did. and of course at that time, - gone. of course it did. and of course at that time, i - gone. of course it did. and of. course at that time, i remember having been working in broadcasting, there was a horrible stigma about hiv. ., , there was a horrible stigma about mv._ terrible - there was a horrible stigma about hiv._ terrible things i there was a horrible stigma about hiv._ terrible things in j hiv. there was. terrible things in the ress hiv. there was. terrible things in the press and _ hiv. there was. terrible things in the press and terrible _ hiv. there was. terrible things in the press and terrible people - hiv. there was. terrible things in i the press and terrible people saying terrible things in the media almost unchallenged. i terrible things in the media almost unchallenged-— unchallenged. i always say, if --eole unchallenged. i always say, if people remember _ unchallenged. i always say, if people remember they - unchallenged. i always say, if people remember they don'tl unchallenged. i always say, if i people remember they don't die unchallenged. i always say, if - people remember they don't die of ignorance campaign, my dad was dead by that point. as i found out what my dad had died of, there were

leaflets landing on everybody�*s doorsteps, if you have aids you are ignorant, that's what it seemed. you dare not breathe a word of it. it was horrible.— dare not breathe a word of it. it was horrible. what have the years been like since _ was horrible. what have the years been like since then _ was horrible. what have the years been like since then in _ was horrible. what have the years been like since then in the - was horrible. what have the years | been like since then in the struggle that you have all had? you been like since then in the struggle that you have all had?— been like since then in the struggle that you have all had? you think, we are bein: that you have all had? you think, we are being ignored, _ that you have all had? you think, we are being ignored, lied _ that you have all had? you think, we are being ignored, lied to _ that you have all had? you think, we are being ignored, lied to time - that you have all had? you think, we are being ignored, lied to time and l are being ignored, lied to time and time again. but nobody wanted to accept the fact that these deaths were needless. these people should not have died. they could have done something about it and we kept getting told, no you're wrong. when the inquiry has managed to compel people and get the evidence, they still got it, how can people say that they didn't know, when they clearly did?— that they didn't know, when they clearly did? glen, i will bring you in here and _ clearly did? glen, i will bring you in here and thank— clearly did? glen, i will bring you in here and thank you _ clearly did? glen, i will bring you in here and thank you for being l clearly did? glen, i will bring you i in here and thank you for being here this morning, in affected with

hepatitis c, liver damage, as a result. we have news of the compensation, what are your feelings this friday? compensation, what are your feelings this frida ? ., ~ compensation, what are your feelings this frida ? ., ,, , ., ., ., this friday? thank you, i am a haemophiliac— this friday? thank you, i am a haemophiliac and _ this friday? thank you, i am a haemophiliac and have - this friday? thank you, i am a haemophiliac and have been l this friday? thank you, i am a l haemophiliac and have been left this friday? thank you, i am a - haemophiliac and have been left with serious _ haemophiliac and have been left with serious liver disease and an uncertain— serious liver disease and an uncertain future. my issue with the compensation proposals is that they are hugely— compensation proposals is that they are hugely different as compared to those _ are hugely different as compared to those with— are hugely different as compared to those with hepatitis c and those with hiv — those with hepatitis c and those with hiv. the government talk about millions— with hiv. the government talk about millions and billions being spent, it is not— millions and billions being spent, it is not going to be sent on the hepatitis — it is not going to be sent on the hepatitis c_ it is not going to be sent on the hepatitis c community. the government are dividing the hepatitis c community, specifically the mono — hepatitis c community, specifically the mono hepatitis c community to the mono hepatitis c community to the point _ the mono hepatitis c community to the point where some people are going _ the point where some people are going to — the point where some people are going to receive very low sums of compensation, as low as 35,000,

whereas— compensation, as low as 35,000, whereas the minimum that will be received _ whereas the minimum that will be received by someone with hiv is in excess _ received by someone with hiv is in excess of— received by someone with hiv is in excess of £2 million. we also have a situation where the government are dividing _ situation where the government are dividing the community into various groups— dividing the community into various groups depending on the severity of the illness. it started in 2004 when we were _ the illness. it started in 2004 when we were divided into two groups, 2017 they— we were divided into two groups, 2017 they introduced a third group and now— 2017 they introduced a third group and now they are talking about introducing a fourth category of hepatitis — introducing a fourth category of hepatitis c. it is designed to limit the government's financial exposure against _ the government's financial exposure against the wider community, it is a case of— against the wider community, it is a case of divide and rule. i think it is shocking _ case of divide and rule. i think it is shocking the way the government are going _ is shocking the way the government are going about this. we also have people _ are going about this. we also have people within the hepatitis c community that have never received a single _ community that have never received a single penny in compensation or support— single penny in compensation or support because the government decided — support because the government decided years ago that they would introduce —

decided years ago that they would introduce a september 19 91 cut—off date _ introduce a september 19 91 cut—off date we _ introduce a september 19 91 cut—off date. we are hoping that is going to change _ date. we are hoping that is going to change moving forward but as things stand _ change moving forward but as things stand those people fall foul of the 1991 cut—off date haven't received a penny _ 1991 cut—off date haven't received a penny if_ 1991 cut—off date haven't received a penny. if you compare that with hiv that have _ penny. if you compare that with hiv that have never had any cut—off date imposed _ that have never had any cut—off date imposed on — that have never had any cut—off date imposed on them and you can see how frustrating _ imposed on them and you can see how frustrating it— imposed on them and you can see how frustrating it is for the hepatitis c community. we feel let down all the time — c community. we feel let down all the time. things need to change and they need _ the time. things need to change and they need to start acting more fairly— they need to start acting more fairly and _ they need to start acting more fairly and appropriately to the community. we fairly and appropriately to the community-— fairly and appropriately to the community. fairly and appropriately to the communi . ~ ., , ., i. community. we need to listen to you and that is what _ community. we need to listen to you and that is what it _ community. we need to listen to you and that is what it is _ community. we need to listen to you and that is what it is all _ community. we need to listen to you and that is what it is all about. - community. we need to listen to you and that is what it is all about. it - and that is what it is all about. it is so important to hear your voices and your views and you have lost, it is unimaginable, you must have lost so many friends as well. that must have been hell.— have been hell. 80s. is horrible. we are often going _

have been hell. 80s. is horrible. we are often going to _ have been hell. 80s. is horrible. we are often going to funerals. - have been hell. 80s. is horrible. we are often going to funerals. i - have been hell. 80s. is horrible. we are often going to funerals. i lost. are often going to funerals. i lost are often going to funerals. i lost a close _ are often going to funerals. i lost a close friend of mine earlier this year~ _ a close friend of mine earlier this year~ going — a close friend of mine earlier this year. going through that and watching _ year. going through that and watching people suffer and die, regardless of the infection is absolutely devastating. the government need to understand that they need _ government need to understand that they need to treat the community as a whole _ they need to treat the community as a whole fairly, we have differences in the _ a whole fairly, we have differences in the way — a whole fairly, we have differences in the way hiv people are treated, the widows are treated differently, the widows are treated differently, the children are treated differently. they are dividing us all the — differently. they are dividing us all the time. it needs to stop. i was _ all the time. it needs to stop. i was hoping that sir robert would recognise changes need to be made and comment on that in his report more _ and comment on that in his report more than — and comment on that in his report more than he has. i think he has failed _ more than he has. i think he has failed the — more than he has. i think he has failed the community an extent. although — failed the community an extent. although he did release a report this week— although he did release a report this week and he admitted within

that that — this week and he admitted within that that it would have been preferable to test the information they have — preferable to test the information they have received against lived experience of people me and engage more widely with expert groups. he failed _ more widely with expert groups. he failed to— more widely with expert groups. he failed to do that. it feels a bit rushed — failed to do that. it feels a bit rushed. |t— failed to do that. it feels a bit rushed. ,., ., ., , failed to do that. it feels a bit rushed. , ., ., rushed. it so good this morning to net behind rushed. it so good this morning to get behind the _ rushed. it so good this morning to get behind the headlines - rushed. it so good this morning to get behind the headlines and - rushed. it so good this morning to get behind the headlines and to i rushed. it so good this morning to i get behind the headlines and to hear from people like yourself. mark, glenn, louise and sue has got in touch. good morning sue. tell us our touch. good morning sue. tell us your story- _ touch. good morning sue. tell us your story- i— touch. good morning sue. tell us your story. i found _ touch. good morning sue. tell us your story. i found out _ touch. good morning sue. tell us your story. i found out by - touch. good morning sue. tell us| your story. i found out by accident in 2008 that i had hepatitis c and i had carried the infection unknowingly for 32 years. as a result, i was deported from a country, that has probably saved my

life. ~ , ., , ., country, that has probably saved my life. ~ i. i. ., life. where were you when you found out? iwas life. where were you when you found out? i was in — life. where were you when you found out? i was in north _ life. where were you when you found out? i was in north cyprus. _ life. where were you when you found out? i was in north cyprus. but - life. where were you when you found out? i was in north cyprus. but to - out? i was in north cyprus. but to be fair, out? i was in north cyprus. but to be fair. the _ out? i was in north cyprus. but to be fair, the people _ out? i was in north cyprus. but to be fair, the people of— out? i was in north cyprus. but to be fair, the people of north - out? i was in north cyprus. but to| be fair, the people of north cyprus change the law to let me back. however, at the time, it was shocking the other thing was the stigma, it took my husband and i fixed months to even tell our closest family. because of the stigma associated with hepatitis c. i'm a member of glenn wilkinson's contaminated blood group and he has worked so hard. what we have seen today and with the compensation with the huge division between hepatitis c sufferers and hiv sufferers, if you have an infection, you have an

infection. if you are stigmatised, you are stigmatised. why is there such a huge gap between the two? suffering with an infection is exactly that. i want it all sorted and sorted properly and fairly and somebody to say, i am sorry we are making this worse, because at the moment it is not helping that much. the fact that the government, whoever they seem to have looking at it, still doesn't listen properly to the community that is involved. i the community that is involved. i couldn't agree more. we - the community that is involved. i couldn't agree more. we other i the community that is involved. i - couldn't agree more. we other people who have suffered _ couldn't agree more. we other people who have suffered and _ couldn't agree more. we other people who have suffered and my _ couldn't agree more. we other people who have suffered and my suffering i who have suffered and my suffering is small compared to other people. i cried this morning when i saw what they offering their men that had

been experimented on. they offering their men that had l been experimented on.- i been experimented on. 15,000. i cried. been experimented on. 15,000. i cried- that _ been experimented on. 15,000. i cried. that is _ been experimented on. 15,000. i cried. that is something - been experimented on. 15,000. i cried. that is something else - cried. that is something else altogether. to find that you had been deliberately infected, to see how things worked out and that's worth £15,000. it's like, oh we're sorry, no you can go away and i like the rest of them.— the rest of them. their government representative _ the rest of them. their government representative who _ the rest of them. their government representative who was _ the rest of them. their government representative who was on - the rest of them. their government representative who was on the - the rest of them. their government representative who was on the bbc| representative who was on the bbc today programme said, well that is part of an overall package. yes today programme said, well that is part of an overall package. teal part of an overall package. yes i a . ree part of an overall package. yes i agree with _ part of an overall package. yes i agree with that, _ part of an overall package. yes i agree with that, but _ part of an overall package. yes i agree with that, but taken - part of an overall package. yes i agree with that, but taken in - agree with that, but taken in isolation, just imagine it was you or your son or your child. you were given a life—threatening virus as part of an experiment. i given a life-threatening virus as

part of an experiment.— given a life-threatening virus as part of an experiment. i tell you, i don't have — part of an experiment. i tell you, i don't have any _ part of an experiment. i tell you, i don't have any words. _ part of an experiment. i tell you, i don't have any words. it _ part of an experiment. i tell you, i don't have any words. it was - don't have any words. it was deliberate. _ don't have any words. it was deliberate. it _ don't have any words. it was deliberate. it didn't - don't have any words. it was deliberate. it didn't happenl don't have any words. it was i deliberate. it didn't happen by accident _ deliberate. it didn't happen by accident. they knew what they were doing _ accident. they knew what they were doing when they experimented on those _ doing when they experimented on those children. can you imagine the compensation that would be or should be available for people in that situation _ be available for people in that situation who have been experimented on and _ situation who have been experimented on and being infected... what situation who have been experimented on and being infected. . ._ on and being infected... what was rroin on and being infected... what was going through _ on and being infected. .. what was going through their— on and being infected... what was going through their minds? - on and being infected... what was going through their minds? did i on and being infected... what was i going through their minds? did they understand, did they suspect that there might be grave risks? thea;r there might be grave risks? they develop this _ there might be grave risks? they develop this new _ there might be grave risks? they develop this new form _ there might be grave risks? they develop this new form up of factor eight _ develop this new form up of factor eight and — develop this new form up of factor eight and decided they would like to try on— eight and decided they would like to try on people who had never had that material— try on people who had never had that material before, including what are known _ material before, including what are known as _ material before, including what are known as virgin haemophiliacs who had never— known as virgin haemophiliacs who had never been treated. i was one of

those _ had never been treated. i was one of those people, until 1983i had never been treated. i was one of those people, until1983| had had never been treated. i was one of those people, until 1983i had never received _ those people, until 1983i had never received factor eight before. it was a way— received factor eight before. it was a way of— received factor eight before. it was a way of trying this new material on haemophiliacs who had never received it to see _ haemophiliacs who had never received it to see if_ haemophiliacs who had never received it to see if they would become infected — it to see if they would become infected. there was a document... to see if infected. there was a document... see if they infected. there was a document... trr see if they became infected, i mean... b. see if they became infected, i mean... �* see if they became infected, i mean... ~ ., , mean... a document at the inquiry showed that _ mean... a document at the inquiry showed that they _ mean... a document at the inquiry showed that they preferred - mean... a document at the inquiry showed that they preferred to - mean... a document at the inquiry showed that they preferred to try i showed that they preferred to try this material on haemophiliacs rather— this material on haemophiliacs rather than chimpanzees because haemophiliacs were cheaper and more accessible _ haemophiliacs were cheaper and more accessible than... haemophiliacs were cheaper and more accessible than. . ._ accessible than... there is no mitigation — accessible than... there is no mitigation is _ accessible than... there is no mitigation is there? - accessible than... there is no mitigation is there? mark, i accessible than... there is no - mitigation is there? mark, apologies everyone i need to go to mark. feel free to come in any stage. mark, infected with hiv at 14. what has

your life been like? i infected with hiv at14. what has your life been like?— your life been like? i was told at 14 but i your life been like? i was told at 14 but i had _ your life been like? i was told at 14 but i had already _ your life been like? i was told at 14 but i had already been - your life been like? i was told at. 14 but i had already been affected by that _ 14 but i had already been affected by that along _ 14 but i had already been affected by that along with _ 14 but i had already been affected by that along with hepatitis - 14 but i had already been affected by that along with hepatitis c- 14 but i had already been affected by that along with hepatitis c and| by that along with hepatitis c and hepatitis — by that along with hepatitis c and hepatitis b— by that along with hepatitis c and hepatitis b and _ by that along with hepatitis c and hepatitis b and the _ by that along with hepatitis c and hepatitis b and the list _ by that along with hepatitis c and hepatitis b and the list goes - by that along with hepatitis c and hepatitis b and the list goes on. i hepatitis b and the list goes on. as a haemophiliac. _ hepatitis b and the list goes on. as a haemophiliac, the _ hepatitis b and the list goes on. as a haemophiliac, the list— hepatitis b and the list goes on. as a haemophiliac, the list they- hepatitis b and the list goes on. as a haemophiliac, the list they gave. a haemophiliac, the list they gave us was _ a haemophiliac, the list they gave us was so — a haemophiliac, the list they gave us was so contaminated _ a haemophiliac, the list they gave us was so contaminated with - us was so contaminated with different— us was so contaminated with different pathogens - us was so contaminated with different pathogens and - us was so contaminated with - different pathogens and bacteria it is a miracle — different pathogens and bacteria it is a miracle that _ different pathogens and bacteria it is a miracle that we _ different pathogens and bacteria it is a miracle that we are _ different pathogens and bacteria it is a miracle that we are alive - different pathogens and bacteria it| is a miracle that we are alive some of us _ is a miracle that we are alive some of us with — is a miracle that we are alive some of us. with regards _ is a miracle that we are alive some of us. with regards to, _ is a miracle that we are alive some of us. with regards to, picking - is a miracle that we are alive some of us. with regards to, picking up. of us. with regards to, picking up on you _ of us. with regards to, picking up on you what— of us. with regards to, picking up on you what you _ of us. with regards to, picking up on you what you are _ of us. with regards to, picking up on you what you are saying - of us. with regards to, picking up| on you what you are saying there, with the _ on you what you are saying there, with the research. _ on you what you are saying there, with the research. i— on you what you are saying there, with the research. i am _ on you what you are saying there, with the research. i am 55 - on you what you are saying there, with the research. i am 55 this - on you what you are saying there, i with the research. i am 55 this year and i_ with the research. i am 55 this year and i have — with the research. i am 55 this year and i have been— with the research. i am 55 this year and i have been used for— with the research. i am 55 this year and i have been used for research. and i have been used for research all my— and i have been used for research all my life. — and i have been used for research all my life, because _ and i have been used for research all my life, because when - and i have been used for research all my life, because when i- and i have been used for research all my life, because when i was i all my life, because when i was diagnosed _ all my life, because when i was diagnosed with— all my life, because when i was diagnosed with severe - all my life, because when i was - diagnosed with severe haemophilia 1972 they— diagnosed with severe haemophilia 1972 they were _ diagnosed with severe haemophilia 1972 they were researching - diagnosed with severe haemophilia 1972 they were researching for- 1972 they were researching for hepatitis — 1972 they were researching for hepatitis b— 1972 they were researching for hepatitis b a _ 1972 they were researching for hepatitis b a test _ 1972 they were researching for hepatitis b a test kit _ 1972 they were researching for hepatitis b a test kit and - 1972 they were researching for. hepatitis b a test kit and vaccine for hepatitis _ hepatitis b a test kit and vaccine for hepatitis b, _ hepatitis b a test kit and vaccine for hepatitis b, in— hepatitis b a test kit and vaccine for hepatitis b, in america - hepatitis b a test kit and vaccine for hepatitis b, in america theyl for hepatitis b, in america they went— for hepatitis b, in america they went to — for hepatitis b, in america they went to the _ for hepatitis b, in america they went to the lgbt_ for hepatitis b, in america they went to the lgbt community i for hepatitis b, in america they. went to the lgbt community and for hepatitis b, in america they- went to the lgbt community and put things— went to the lgbt community and put things in_ went to the lgbt community and put things in the — went to the lgbt community and put things in the local— went to the lgbt community and put things in the local press _ went to the lgbt community and put things in the local press asking - went to the lgbt community and put things in the local press asking gay i things in the local press asking gay men to— things in the local press asking gay men to come — things in the local press asking gay men to come forward _ things in the local press asking gay men to come forward to _ things in the local press asking gay men to come forward to help. - things in the local press asking gay| men to come forward to help. here they used _ men to come forward to help. here they used haemophiliacs _ men to come forward to help. here they used haemophiliacs because i men to come forward to help. here i they used haemophiliacs because we walked _ they used haemophiliacs because we walked through — they used haemophiliacs because we walked through the _ they used haemophiliacs because we walked through the doors _ they used haemophiliacs because we walked through the doors like - they used haemophiliacs because we walked through the doors like lambs| walked through the doors like lambs to the _ walked through the doors like lambs to the slaughter— walked through the doors like lambs to the slaughter and _ walked through the doors like lambs to the slaughter and we _ walked through the doors like lambs to the slaughter and we were - to the slaughter and we were enrolled _ to the slaughter and we were enrolled in— to the slaughter and we were enrolled in this _ to the slaughter and we were enrolled in this research - to the slaughter and we were enrolled in this research that| enrolled in this research that we didn't— enrolled in this research that we didn't know—

enrolled in this research that we didn't know was _ enrolled in this research that we didn't know was going _ enrolled in this research that we didn't know was going on. - enrolled in this research that we didn't know was going on. theyl didn't know was going on. they regularly— didn't know was going on. they regularly would _ didn't know was going on. they regularly would say _ didn't know was going on. they regularly would say to - didn't know was going on. they regularly would say to my - didn't know was going on. they. regularly would say to my parents about _ regularly would say to my parents about me — regularly would say to my parents about me attending _ regularly would say to my parents about me attending trade - regularly would say to my parents about me attending trade laws, i regularly would say to my parents - about me attending trade laws, which i about me attending trade laws, which i didn't _ about me attending trade laws, which ididn't the _ about me attending trade laws, which i didn't. the research _ about me attending trade laws, which i didn't. the research that— about me attending trade laws, which i didn't. the research that went - about me attending trade laws, which i didn't. the research that went on . i didn't. the research that went on there _ i didn't. the research that went on there didn't — ididn't. the research that went on there didn't only— ididn't. the research that went on there didn't only stay— i didn't. the research that went on there didn't only stay there, - i didn't. the research that went on there didn't only stay there, it - there didn't only stay there, it happened _ there didn't only stay there, it happened to _ there didn't only stay there, it happened to all— there didn't only stay there, it| happened to all haemophiliacs there didn't only stay there, it - happened to all haemophiliacs right across— happened to all haemophiliacs right across the _ happened to all haemophiliacs right across the country. _ happened to all haemophiliacs right across the country. what _ happened to all haemophiliacs right across the country. what they- happened to all haemophiliacs right across the country. what they were | across the country. what they were doing _ across the country. what they were doing their— across the country. what they were doing their in — across the country. what they were doing their in their— across the country. what they were doing their in their classrooms - across the country. what they were doing their in their classrooms and | doing their in their classrooms and one place — doing their in their classrooms and one place was— doing their in their classrooms and one place was being _ doing their in their classrooms and one place was being repeated. - doing their in their classrooms and one place was being repeated. in. one place was being repeated. in i980~~ _ one place was being repeated. in 1980... surrey, _ one place was being repeated. in 1980... surrey, 1982, _ one place was being repeated. in 1980... surrey, 1982, |_ one place was being repeated. in 1980... surrey, 1982, iwas- one place was being repeated. in| 1980... surrey, 1982, iwas taken into hospital— 1980... surrey, 1982, iwas taken into hospital and _ 1980... surrey, 1982, iwas taken into hospital and suddenly- 1980... surrey, 1982, iwas taken into hospital and suddenly out. 1980... surrey, 1982, iwas taken into hospital and suddenly out ofl into hospital and suddenly out of nowhere — into hospital and suddenly out of nowhere most _ into hospital and suddenly out of nowhere most haemophiliacs - into hospital and suddenly out of. nowhere most haemophiliacs across the country — nowhere most haemophiliacs across the country needed _ nowhere most haemophiliacs across the country needed to _ nowhere most haemophiliacs across the country needed to have - nowhere most haemophiliacs across the country needed to have either. the country needed to have either four teeth — the country needed to have either four teeth taken _ the country needed to have either four teeth taken out _ the country needed to have either four teeth taken out all _ the country needed to have either four teeth taken out all the - four teeth taken out all the tonsils _ four teeth taken out all the tonsils. that— four teeth taken out all the tonsils. that way— four teeth taken out all the tonsils. that way they - four teeth taken out all the | tonsils. that way they could four teeth taken out all the - tonsils. that way they could do research — tonsils. that way they could do research on _ tonsils. that way they could do research on the _ tonsils. that way they could do research on the tissue - tonsils. that way they could do research on the tissue they - tonsils. that way they could do . research on the tissue they found, so in _ research on the tissue they found, so in the _ research on the tissue they found, so in the pulp— research on the tissue they found, so in the pulp of— research on the tissue they found, so in the pulp of teeth _ research on the tissue they found, so in the pulp of teeth and - research on the tissue they found, so in the pulp of teeth and tonsil i so in the pulp of teeth and tonsil tissue _ so in the pulp of teeth and tonsil tissue shows— so in the pulp of teeth and tonsil

tissue, shows how— so in the pulp of teeth and tonsil tissue, shows how virally - so in the pulp of teeth and tonsil i tissue, shows how virally impacted your body— tissue, shows how virally impacted your body has _ tissue, shows how virally impacted your body has been. _ tissue, shows how virally impacted your body has been. you _ tissue, shows how virally impacted your body has been. you are - tissue, shows how virally impacted your body has been. you are beingj your body has been. you are being bombarded — your body has been. you are being bombarded with— your body has been. you are being bombarded with all— your body has been. you are being bombarded with all of— your body has been. you are being bombarded with all of these - bombarded with all of these pathogens— bombarded with all of these pathogens on _ bombarded with all of these pathogens on a _ bombarded with all of these pathogens on a daily - bombarded with all of these pathogens on a daily basis i bombarded with all of these - pathogens on a daily basis almost in unnatural— pathogens on a daily basis almost in unnatural levels, _ pathogens on a daily basis almost in unnatural levels, because _ pathogens on a daily basis almost in unnatural levels, because of- pathogens on a daily basis almost in unnatural levels, because of the - unnatural levels, because of the concentrated _ unnatural levels, because of the concentrated treatment - unnatural levels, because of the concentrated treatment we - unnatural levels, because of the| concentrated treatment we were unnatural levels, because of the - concentrated treatment we were being given _ concentrated treatment we were being given~ they— concentrated treatment we were being given they were — concentrated treatment we were being given. they were then _ concentrated treatment we were being given. they were then looking - concentrated treatment we were being given. they were then looking to - concentrated treatment we were being given. they were then looking to see i given. they were then looking to see how it _ given. they were then looking to see how it was _ given. they were then looking to see how it was affecting _ given. they were then looking to see how it was affecting us. _ given. they were then looking to see how it was affecting us. they - given. they were then looking to see how it was affecting us. they took i how it was affecting us. they took me to _ how it was affecting us. they took me to hospital— how it was affecting us. they took me to hospital and _ how it was affecting us. they took me to hospital and decided - how it was affecting us. they took me to hospital and decided to - how it was affecting us. they took| me to hospital and decided to take out 13— me to hospital and decided to take out 13 teeth — me to hospital and decided to take out 13 teeth. so _ me to hospital and decided to take out 13 teeth. so 1— me to hospital and decided to take out 13 teeth. so i woke _ me to hospital and decided to take out 13 teeth. so i woke up - me to hospital and decided to take out 13 teeth. so i woke up lookingl out 13 teeth. so i woke up looking like bugs — out 13 teeth. so i woke up looking like bugs bunny— out 13 teeth. so i woke up looking like bugs bunny and _ out 13 teeth. so i woke up looking like bugs bunny and then sent- out 13 teeth. so i woke up looking like bugs bunny and then sent toi like bugs bunny and then sent to school— like bugs bunny and then sent to school looking _ like bugs bunny and then sent to school looking like _ like bugs bunny and then sent to school looking like that - like bugs bunny and then sent to school looking like that weeks i school looking like that weeks later~ — school looking like that weeks later~ that _ school looking like that weeks later. that is— school looking like that weeks later. that is the _ school looking like that weeks later. that is the day- school looking like that weeks later. that is the day they - school looking like that weeks - later. that is the day they gave me hiv. later. that is the day they gave me hiv~ it _ later. that is the day they gave me hiv~ it was — later. that is the day they gave me hiv. it was something _ later. that is the day they gave me hiv. it was something i— later. that is the day they gave me hiv. it was something i will- later. that is the day they gave me hiv. it was something i will never. hiv. it was something i will never forget _ hiv. it was something i will never forget there _ hiv. it was something i will never forget. there was _ hiv. it was something i will never forget. there was a _ hiv. it was something i will never forget. there was a directive - hiv. it was something i will never forget. there was a directive and i forget. there was a directive and ordered — forget. there was a directive and ordered to — forget. there was a directive and ordered to say _ forget. there was a directive and ordered to say that _ forget. there was a directive and ordered to say that children - forget. there was a directive and i ordered to say that children should be nowhere — ordered to say that children should be nowhere near— ordered to say that children should be nowhere near those _ ordered to say that children should be nowhere near those products. i ordered to say that children should i be nowhere near those products. the design _ be nowhere near those products. the design of— be nowhere near those products. the design of that — be nowhere near those products. the design of that was _ be nowhere near those products. the design of that was to _ be nowhere near those products. the design of that was to inject _ be nowhere near those products. the design of that was to inject this - design of that was to inject this into us— design of that was to inject this into us to — design of that was to inject this into us to see _ design of that was to inject this into us to see what _ design of that was to inject this into us to see what happens . design of that was to inject this into us to see what happens to| design of that was to inject this . into us to see what happens to the family. _ into us to see what happens to the family. how— into us to see what happens to the family, how would _ into us to see what happens to the family, how would we _ into us to see what happens to the family, how would we infect - into us to see what happens to the family, how would we infect our. family, how would we infect our family — family, how would we infect our family i— family, how would we infect our family i had _ family, how would we infect our family. i had nosebleeds. - family, how would we infect our| family. i had nosebleeds. would family, how would we infect our- family. i had nosebleeds. would my mum _ family. i had nosebleeds. would my mum become — family. i had nosebleeds. would my mum become infected _ family. i had nosebleeds. would my mum become infected because - family. i had nosebleeds. would my mum become infected because shel mum become infected because she would _ mum become infected because she would hold — mum become infected because she would hold the _ mum become infected because she

would hold the cloth _ mum become infected because she would hold the cloth up _ mum become infected because she would hold the cloth up to - mum become infected because she would hold the cloth up to my- would hold the cloth up to my bleeding _ would hold the cloth up to my bleeding nose _ would hold the cloth up to my bleeding nose because - would hold the cloth up to my bleeding nose because it- would hold the cloth up to my. bleeding nose because it would would hold the cloth up to my- bleeding nose because it would run everywhere? — bleeding nose because it would run everywhere? would _ bleeding nose because it would run everywhere? would it— bleeding nose because it would run everywhere? would it affect - everywhere? would it affect other members. — everywhere? would it affect other members. we _ everywhere? would it affect other members, we are _ everywhere? would it affect other members, we are talking - everywhere? would it affect other members, we are talking real- members, we are talking real darkness— members, we are talking real darkness here. _ members, we are talking real darkness here. that - members, we are talking real darkness here. that didn't- members, we are talking real. darkness here. that didn't stop. from _ darkness here. that didn't stop. from the — darkness here. that didn't stop. from the word _ darkness here. that didn't stop. from the word go, _ darkness here. that didn't stop. from the word go, in _ darkness here. that didn't stop. from the word go, in 1972, - darkness here. that didn't stop. j from the word go, in 1972, right through— from the word go, in 1972, right through to — from the word go, in 1972, right through to what _ from the word go, in 1972, right through to what isn't _ from the word go, in 1972, right through to what isn't being - through to what isn't being mentioned _ through to what isn't being mentioned today, - through to what isn't being mentioned today, is - through to what isn't being mentioned today, is vcjd. i through to what isn't being - mentioned today, is vcjd. they took mentioned today, is vcjd. they took me to _ mentioned today, is vcjd. they took me to hospitalm _ mentioned today, is vcjd. they took me to hospital... the _ mentioned today, is vcjd. they took me to hospital. . ._ mentioned today, is vcjd. they took me to hospital... the human form of mad cow disease. _ me to hospital... the human form of mad cow disease. they _ me to hospital... the human form of mad cow disease. they took - me to hospital... the human form of mad cow disease. they took me - me to hospital... the human form of mad cow disease. they took me into | mad cow disease. they took me into hospital but because of the hepatitis c my teeth are chattering and i was told my liver was failing and i was told my liver was failing and it was not good my teeth were shattering. so for cost purposes they took me into the hospital and took the back teeth out first and then they would bring me back in and take the front teeth out. i would have all of my teeth removed into operations. they were ten months

apart but i was given the same batch of treatment that they had kept back and stored. after that happened, i collapsed in 2002 with a lesion on my brain. i was given weeks to live and i had a letter to say i had been given treatment to say that i had been given treatment to say that i had been given treatment by someone with vcjd. they have now played that down but i have lived that with that fear. i lost the use of my arm, i was told, get your affairs in order you have weeks rather than months to live. at that time, i was still trying to work and whilst i was laying in a hospital bed connected to machines, my boss came in and fired me. i have been used as a lump of meat all of my life to be tested on, to be researched, whatever has

been thrown at us we have always had to fight to get recognition and the scraps they have thrown out. then this £10,000 for being used as something that was deemed to be cheaper than a chimpanzee. you were 14 when you — cheaper than a chimpanzee. you were 14 when you found _ cheaper than a chimpanzee. you were 14 when you found out _ cheaper than a chimpanzee. you were 14 when you found out you _ cheaper than a chimpanzee. you were 14 when you found out you had - 14 when you found out you had contracted hiv. i'm going to speak to leslie and paul, mark, what year was that? i to leslie and paul, mark, what year was that? ., , ., to leslie and paul, mark, what year was that? .,, ., "3 ., was that? i was told in 1984 that i had been infected _ was that? i was told in 1984 that i had been infected with _ was that? i was told in 1984 that i had been infected with hiv. - was that? i was told in 1984 that i had been infected with hiv. it- was that? 1 was told in 1984 that 1 | had been infected with hiv. it was shouted across the waiting room, and nurse shouted it across the waiting room to my mum and dad, she said, positive, see you next time, like it was some passing comment. my mum had to go to the school and speak to the headmaster to allow me to go to

school, because if anybody complained i would have been kicked out for having hiv stop but my medical notes say, because there wasn't the testing, the official test, my medicals notes say they believed that io converted in 1982. that's when they took my teeth out in the first operation i remember well. when you have gone through all of that and you have told this story time and time again and all the horrors and i have lost count of how many times i have been told i'm going to die from these different things. i live with the consequences of their research every single day. every single day. leslie, thank you for your text this morning stop you were infected, when and how? i had

for your text this morning stop you were infected, when and how? i had a blood transfusion _ were infected, when and how? i had a blood transfusion in _ were infected, when and how? i had a blood transfusion in 1985 _ were infected, when and how? i had a blood transfusion in 1985 when - were infected, when and how? i had a blood transfusion in 1985 when i - were infected, when and how? i had a blood transfusion in 1985 when i had i blood transfusion in 1985 when i had my first _ blood transfusion in 1985 when i had my first child. my son was born and i my first child. my son was born and i had _ my first child. my son was born and i had a _ my first child. my son was born and i had a transfusion and i got on with— i had a transfusion and i got on with my— i had a transfusion and i got on with my life. it was only decades later— with my life. it was only decades later i_ with my life. it was only decades later i was— with my life. it was only decades later i was getting quite ill and i was self—employed, so you don't take sick was self—employed, so you don't take sick days, _ was self—employed, so you don't take sick days, you just carry on. how sick days, you “ust carry on. how did it sick days, you just carry on. how did it manifest _ sick days, you just carry on. how did it manifest itself, _ sick days, you just carry on. time did it manifest itself, what was happening? i did it manifest itself, what was happening?— happening? i was chronically fati . ued. happening? i was chronically fatigued- i— happening? i was chronically fatigued. i used _ happening? i was chronically fatigued. i used to _ happening? i was chronically fatigued. i used to travel - happening? i was chronically fatigued. i used to travel a i happening? i was chronically. fatigued. i used to travel a lot happening? i was chronically - fatigued. i used to travel a lot for the job— fatigued. i used to travel a lot for the job around the country and i was getting _ the job around the country and i was getting really tired and i had chronic— getting really tired and i had chronicjoint pain, headaches, digestive _ chronicjoint pain, headaches, digestive problems, pain under my ribs at— digestive problems, pain under my ribs at the — digestive problems, pain under my ribs at the back, which later you'll learn _ ribs at the back, which later you'll learn is _ ribs at the back, which later you'll learn is liver— ribs at the back, which later you'll learn is liver pain. all my liver function — learn is liver pain. all my liver function tests were coming back normal~ — function tests were coming back normal~ i— function tests were coming back normal. i kept going to the doctor, iwent— normal. i kept going to the doctor, i went for— normal. i kept going to the doctor, i went for four years complaining of

different— i went for four years complaining of different illnesses, aches and pains. — different illnesses, aches and pains, tiredness. they did routine blood _ pains, tiredness. they did routine blood tests. but they don't test for pepsi _ blood tests. but they don't test for pepsi or— blood tests. but they don't test for pepsi or -- — blood tests. but they don't test for pepsi or —— hepatitis c or hiv unless— pepsi or —— hepatitis c or hiv unless you _ pepsi or —— hepatitis c or hiv unless you have risk factors. it was only, _ unless you have risk factors. it was only, i— unless you have risk factors. it was only, iwas— unless you have risk factors. it was only, i was listening to radio four and one — only, i was listening to radio four and one day i heard anita roddick from _ and one day i heard anita roddick from the — and one day i heard anita roddick from the body shop saying that she had found — from the body shop saying that she had found out she was hepatitis c positive from a blood transfusion in the 80s— positive from a blood transfusion in the 805 when her daughter was born. iwent— the 805 when her daughter was born. i went back— the 805 when her daughter was born. i went back and asked for hepatitis c test _ i went back and asked for hepatitis c test and — i went back and asked for hepatitis c test and they said you don't have any risk— c test and they said you don't have any risk factors. you've not been a drug _ any risk factors. you've not been a drug user. — any risk factors. you've not been a drug user. i— any risk factors. you've not been a drug user, i said i had been a blood

transfusion — drug user, i said i had been a blood transfusion in 1985 and it wasn't on the records — transfusion in 1985 and it wasn't on the records and so it had never flagged — the records and so it had never flagged up with a gp. | the records and so it had never flagged up with a gp.— the records and so it had never flagged up with a gp. i am slightly mesmerised _ flagged up with a gp. i am slightly mesmerised by — flagged up with a gp. i am slightly mesmerised by this _ flagged up with a gp. i am slightly mesmerised by this because - flagged up with a gp. i am slightly mesmerised by this because i - flagged up with a gp. i am slightly mesmerised by this because i am | mesmerised by this because i am trying to take it or lane and you are incredible people. i might have missed it, what we do infected with? it was hepatitis c. when i needed the blood — it was hepatitis c. when i needed the blood transfusion, all the ad adverts — the blood transfusion, all the ad adverts were all over the news then about _ adverts were all over the news then about don't— adverts were all over the news then about don't die of ignorance and we knew— about don't die of ignorance and we knew that _ about don't die of ignorance and we knew that hiv was in the blood. i refused _ knew that hiv was in the blood. i refused a — knew that hiv was in the blood. i refused a blood transfusion for four days because i was so frightened of hiv. eventually they said, you are a bad blogger, you have had your baby, we need _ bad blogger, you have had your baby, we need to— bad blogger, you have had your baby, we need to get you out of the maternity ward but you are blocking a bed _ maternity ward but you are blocking a bed because you won't have the blood _ a bed because you won't have the blood transfusion. so reluctantly i

had it _ blood transfusion. so reluctantly i had it and — blood transfusion. so reluctantly i had it and hiv was the thing that was uppermost in my mind. i had never— was uppermost in my mind. i had never heard — was uppermost in my mind. i had never heard of hepatitis c. in fact, they didn't — never heard of hepatitis c. in fact, they didn't call it hepatitis c then, — they didn't call it hepatitis c then, they didn't know how severe it was so _ then, they didn't know how severe it was so they— then, they didn't know how severe it was so they carried on administering it, was so they carried on administering it. thinking _ was so they carried on administering it, thinking people might die of lack of— it, thinking people might die of lack of blood if they didn't. i found — lack of blood if they didn't. i found i_ lack of blood if they didn't. i found i i_ lack of blood if they didn't. i found i i had hepatitis c in 2007 and i_ found i i had hepatitis c in 2007 and ijoined a lifetime membership of a club _ and ijoined a lifetime membership of a club i — and ijoined a lifetime membership of a club i never wanted tojoin and it changed — of a club i never wanted tojoin and it changed my life completely. i was self—employed, because i couldn't work, _ self—employed, because i couldn't work. i_ self—employed, because i couldn't work. i was — self—employed, because i couldn't work, i was so ill by the time i found — work, i was so ill by the time i found out, _ work, i was so ill by the time i found out, my liver was dying basically _ found out, my liver was dying basically by the time i got diagnosed. i had had the virus for decades — diagnosed. i had had the virus for decades i— diagnosed. i had had the virus for decades. i was so ill. i had to give up decades. i was so ill. i had to give up the _ decades. i was so ill. i had to give up the job, — decades. i was so ill. i had to give up the job, there was no sick pay because i— up the job, there was no sick pay because i was self—employed. i went on the _ because i was self—employed. i went on the interferon treatment which was a _ on the interferon treatment which was a year— on the interferon treatment which was a year because i had the most

severe _ was a year because i had the most severe form. the treatment was brutal~ _ severe form. the treatment was brutal~ i— severe form. the treatment was brutal. i did that for a year. i lost — brutal. i did that for a year. i lost time _ brutal. i did that for a year. i lost time with my children, i was bedridden — lost time with my children, i was bedridden towards the end of it, for most _ bedridden towards the end of it, for most of— bedridden towards the end of it, for most of it — bedridden towards the end of it, for most of it. at the end of it they told me — most of it. at the end of it they told me it — most of it. at the end of it they told me it hadn't worked. it was the only treatment the nhs had and they said it _ only treatment the nhs had and they said it hasn't worked, the virus is still there. — said it hasn't worked, the virus is still there, there is nothing else we can— still there, there is nothing else we can do— still there, there is nothing else we can do for you because we don't have _ we can do for you because we don't have any— we can do for you because we don't have any other treatments. basically i have any other treatments. basically i was _ have any other treatments. basically i was looking at three years to live _ i was looking at three years to live. ., . ,, i was looking at three years to live. ., ., ., i was looking at three years to live. ., . ., ~ i was looking at three years to live. ., ., ., ., live. how are you now? we are raettin live. how are you now? we are getting towards _ live. how are you now? we are getting towards the _ live. how are you now? we are getting towards the top - live. how are you now? we are getting towards the top but - live. how are you now? we are| getting towards the top but it is live. how are you now? we are - getting towards the top but it is so valuable hearing from you, how is your health now? it valuable hearing from you, how is your health now?— your health now? it has left me, i eradicated — your health now? it has left me, i eradicated the _ your health now? it has left me, i eradicated the virus _ your health now? it has left me, i eradicated the virus by _ your health now? it has left me, i eradicated the virus by doing - eradicated the virus by doing another— eradicated the virus by doing another round of treatment. it has left me _ another round of treatment. it has left me with long term, life limiting _ left me with long term, life limiting conditions. i have had two

new knee — limiting conditions. i have had two new knee replacements. i have fibromyalgia, brain fog, cluster headaches... there is no amount of compensation that can replace what we have _ compensation that can replace what we have gone through. i am one of the lucky— we have gone through. i am one of the lucky ones i am still alive. it cost _ the lucky ones i am still alive. it cost me — the lucky ones i am still alive. it cost me my— the lucky ones i am still alive. it cost me myjob, my marriage. my husband _ cost me myjob, my marriage. my husband left because he said he hadn't _ husband left because he said he hadn't signed up to be a carer. he said i_ hadn't signed up to be a carer. he said i didn't — hadn't signed up to be a carer. he said i didn't sign up for this i had turned _ said i didn't sign up for this i had turned into— said i didn't sign up for this i had turned into a carer, not husband. he ran off— turned into a carer, not husband. he ran off with— turned into a carer, not husband. he ran off with another woman. what price _ ran off with another woman. what price do— ran off with another woman. what price do you put on all the gears that i_ price do you put on all the gears that i loss — price do you put on all the gears that i loss of my children, my husband. _ that i loss of my children, my husband, myjob. i that i loss of my children, my husband, myjob. lam one that i loss of my children, my husband, myjob. i am one of the lucky— husband, myjob. i am one of the lucky ones. — husband, myjob. i am one of the lucky ones, i'm still here. we are not going — lucky ones, i'm still here. we are not going to _ lucky ones, i'm still here. we are not going to get millions. they talk about— not going to get millions. they talk about millions and conversation. hepatitis— about millions and conversation. hepatitis c victims won't get that kind of— hepatitis c victims won't get that kind of money. we are looking at a few thousand. hiv victims are getting — few thousand. hiv victims are getting far more. fair play, that is

a nasty— getting far more. fair play, that is a nasty disease too. but what price can you _ a nasty disease too. but what price can you put — a nasty disease too. but what price can you put on it? i got infected at 26 and _ can you put on it? i got infected at 26 and i_ can you put on it? i got infected at 26 and i am — can you put on it? i got infected at 26 and i am 65 now, so nearly all my life. ~ ., 26 and i am 65 now, so nearly all my life. ~ . y ., 26 and i am 65 now, so nearly all my life. ~ ., i. 26 and i am 65 now, so nearly all my life. ~ ., , life. what you say there is absolutely _ life. what you say there is absolutely in _ life. what you say there is absolutely in a _ life. what you say there is absolutely in a nutshell, i life. what you say there is . absolutely in a nutshell, what life. what you say there is - absolutely in a nutshell, what price can you put on a? you absolutely in a nutshell, what price can you put on a?— can you put on a? you can't. i would rather not — can you put on a? you can't. i would rather not have _ can you put on a? you can't. i would rather not have the _ can you put on a? you can't. i would rather not have the money - can you put on a? you can't. i would rather not have the money and - can you put on a? you can't. i would rather not have the money and have j rather not have the money and have my life _ rather not have the money and have my life back— rather not have the money and have my life back and all the life that i lost _ my life back and all the life that i lost and — my life back and all the life that i lost. and everything else. listen, i want to thank _ lost. and everything else. listen, i want to thank all— lost. and everything else. listen, i want to thank all of _ lost. and everything else. listen, i want to thank all of you _ lost. and everything else. listen, i want to thank all of you so - lost. and everything else. listen, i want to thank all of you so much i lost. and everything else. listen, i. want to thank all of you so much for your honesty talking about the infected blood scandal this morning and compensation. so powerful. thank you very much for watching this on bbc news and bbc two.

live from london. this is bbc news. the israeli army orders civilians to evacuate areas of southern and central gaza, as ceasefire talks resume in qatar today. global concerns over a new wave of mpox surging in africa. china bolsters screening of travellers as the first case of the more dangerous strain is detected in europe. prosecutors investigating the death of friends star matthew perry charge five people, including two doctors and a suspected dealer dubbed �*the ketamine queen'. thailand's youngest—ever prime minister takes the helm, parliament voting in the 37—year—old daughter of the country's former leader. hello, i'm lauren taylor.

we start in the middle east. gaza ceasefire talks are due to resume in qatar, after what a us official has described as a �*constructive' first day of discussions on thursday. israeli representatives are attending, but hamas, which runs gaza, has stayed away accusing israel of changing its terms since previous rounds of talks. a hamas official also reiterated that, "any agreement must achieve a comprehensive ceasefire, a complete israeli withdrawal from gaza and the return of the displaced." on thursday, the hamas—run health ministry reported that the number of palestinians killed in gaza has passed 40,000, although israel disputes the figure. later, the families of israeli hostages still held captive in gaza following hamas's october the 7th attacks gathered to demand a deal to secure their release, with several thousand marching in tel aviv. a little earlier, our middle east correspondent, yolande knell, gave me a sense of how the ceasefire talks have gone so far. well, we had a white house spokesman

saying late yesterday that they had got off to a promising start.