this is bbc news, the headlines. israel says hezbollah fired more than 50 rockets over the border — without causing any casualties. earlier hezbollah said an israeli air strike in southern lebanon killed several people in a residential building. an israeli team has said it is cautiously optimistic about the gaza ceasefire talks. but hamas has described suggestions of progress as an illusion. the venezuelan opposition leader maria corina machado has spoken to a protest in the capital caracas. she promised to continue to try to overturn what she said was nicolas maduro�*s falsely claimed victory in the presidential election. the ukrainian military has released video of what it says is the moment a key strategic bridge in russia's kursk region was destroyed. meanwhile russia has launched a new bombardment in the border region, around sumy.

now it's time for today's episode of newscast. newscast. newscast from the bbc. hello, it's adam in the newscast studio. and paddy in the newscast studio. paddy, ijust noticed, listening to chris read the news on radio 4, there, did you notice that in their running order, about 75% of the stories were international stories? yes, and i know all of us listening to the radio can't really recall a chapter as busy slash frightening, for 25 years. yes, crises popping up all over the place and so for the next 28 minutes or... well, it's a podcast, who knows how long it will end up being, we are going to focus on some of those big international stories and we have got some friends of newscast into help us. we have chief international correspondent lyse doucet. hello.

hello, and we are here instead of being on holiday because of this very, very volatile environment. i don't think you ever take holidays anyway. and we are also joined by security correspondent gordon corera. hello, gordon. hello, adam, hello, paddy, hello, lyse.| hello, gordon! so i was thinking, should we look at the middle east first and in particular the negotiations that are going on in qatar over the israel—gaza situation. then we will pop over to ukraine, or we will pop over to the ukrainian—russian border. and then maybe we will have some big thoughts at the end about the whole world. so let's zoom in on the middle east first, lyse, so there are talks going on. they started on thursday in doha, the capital of qatar. explain to me the actual process and who is there. yes, and let's root this in its context, the very, very grim context. this is now the 11th month of this grievous gaza war, already being described as the bloodiest war of the 21st century,

and the agony of the people of gaza, which now, well, more than 70% of it lies in ruins, and the agony of the israeli families waiting for their loved ones to come home. this round of talks is described by some as the last—chance talks. i don't think the mediators will give up but so much is at stake. the main mediators, the united states, qatar and egypt. israel is also at the table, but not hamas because hamas is on terrorism blacklists. it has only in the past taken part indirectly, in other words, through the egyptian and qatari mediators. this time, it is so angry at israel for... it accuses israel of going back on a deal already agreed, that was presented byjoe biden, the us president months ago, that it has said it is not taking part even indirectly. the reality is, they are in doha, many of the political leaders, in the qatari capital, and they are getting briefed. and of course, the hamas leadership is quite different now because quite

a few of them were taken out, we assume by israel. it is very different at the very top. the head of the political wing, who was described as more, let us say, pragmatic, ismail haniyeh, was assassinated in tehran at the end ofjuly. it is believed to have been the work of israel although israel never confirms or denies. it was the second in two assassinations within 12 hours, a senior hezbollah commander was also assassinated in the southern suburbs of beirut which israel did take responsibility for. and you could say, adam, that that is one of the successes of these talks so far, is that it has delayed the threatened retaliation of both hezbollah and iran for these assassinations. they have agreed to hold off for now because they don't want to be seen as scuppering any chance, we don't know how big that chance is, of the ceasefire being agreed and the hostages coming home

in exchange for palestinian prisoners. can i ask you both to talk to us about the head of the cia, william burns? just to let you in listening, when we sat here a moment to go before coming on the radio, that is what we were all talking about, that we should bring to light, because you both know so much about bill burns. yes, i have met him a few times and he is not your typical- swaggering spy master. he is quite a cerebral. figure, an experienced diplomat rather than a spy. and so it is very interesting because the us, the bidenl administration, has used him basically as their primary- negotiating channel. sometimes you have cia directors |who work completely in the dark, | in the shadows but he is operating in a different space, _ where he is both the cia director. and effectively acting as a mediator |and a negotiator, because he knows the middle east, because he is seen as being a very good partner and negotiator and i think. the americans are seeing this - as a very dangerous moment but also a moment potentially of opportunity

because you have got _ this question about, - will iran respond to that assassination that lyse talked - about of the hamas leader in tehran? it has been gearing up, _ everyone has been waiting for that, there has been the sense of tension and it's not happened. _ i think the americans are saying to iran, i don't scupper the talks, - and saying, do try and almost use the huge pressure and the risk. of escalation to say to all sides, this is a moment when actually we could get a ceasefire, - and use that risk to drive - the parties together to talks. is he a linguist? he was based injordan. yes, he has been based i in the middle east and also in moscow, so he also does a lot of the back—channel talks - with the russians as well— because he is a former ambassador there. he knows both the middle east and russia and that _ area extremely well. a quiet figure and very interesting. very intellectual and softly spoken, a linguist, as you say, arabic and russian. an intellectual.

i remember going to one of his book launches about his previous mediations. it is a good question to ask, paddy, because we talk about these processes, if you like, the states at the table. but my experience of watching mediations for many decades is that the personality of the mediator can make a very big difference. and of course, bill burns notjust brings the personality but also the power of the position in representing the united states which is really the only country, both israel and hamas would agree to this, who can put, who can make a deal work and can finally help close those gaps if indeed they are closed. but let me just interrupt because you asked me... you were interrupting yourself. i interrupted myself because i went on a train of thought about ismail haniyeh but your question was about the man who replaced him, yahya sinwar. even hamas officials will say that he is the most hardline, in fact very brutal, judging by his past career, of the hamas leaders. he is now the head

of the political wing. he is believed to be in a bunker, israeli intelligence tells us, in a bunker somewhere under gaza. he is the number—one man on israel's hitlist, regarded as the mastermind of the 7th of october attacks. the big question that many are asking, adam, is does this make it more difficult to do a deal, because we are not quite sure whether yahya sinwar wants one, or does it make it easier? he is the man in charge and believe me, it is hard to get a hold of him because he is watched by so many drones and everything, he does not want to get caught. to get messages to him is a logistical nightmare. i spoke to the daughter of a famous hostage couple. i spoke to sharone lifschitz, whose mum was released saying shalom in the prisoner exchange of more than 100 hostages. last november. last november, and her dad is still being held. she said both netanyahu and sinwar have to have a bigger reason than they currently have had to make peace.

she said one of the things could be sinwar has basically been promoted through assassination, so you could argue he is now the boss which he wasn't before the assassination and that, in this grim chess game of this conflict, could be something that he has achieved. some palestinians would say, although the price is so... painfully high, is that he did, tragically, put the palestinian issue back on the agenda. the world was ignoring it. it was really in the top drawer with the door shut so he put it on the agenda. but we are getting reports and the bbc has done these reports, that anger is mounting in gaza. people have, you know, entire generations of families have been lost in this war. palestinians are losing everything. and enough is enough. equally, on the israeli side, we are hearing from israeli military chiefs, they are saying it in public, even the defence minister, yoav gallant, said to a committee last week

that the idea of total military victory espoused by prime minister netanyahu, although he did not make that clear, is nonsense. also, there are conflicting goals, gordon, as security correspondent you can square the circle. if on the one hand you are committed to completely destroying your partner, your negotiating partner, sorry, wrong word, negotiating rival, at the same time as going into a negotiation, those are completely conflicting goals and both hamas and israel have vowed to destroy the other. exactly and so, if you have got that | problem that neither side will trustj the other because each side will think that, actually, - a deal might be just a pause before they resume attacks, _ if you are israel, you think, if we don't destroy hamas,| they willjust launch another 7th of october. _ and if you are hamas, you think, well israel is committed - to destroying us, a deal is quite dangerous for us. _ but the realities of pressure can sometimes still overcome that i instinctive mistrust of both sides. ithink, you know, picking

up one of the themes, - which might go through this whole | discussion, which is personalitiesl do matter and individual leadership does matter, whether it is sinwar or netanyahu, and the conflicting pressures on him of his own political survival- versus doing a deal, i mean, he will be trying to make - those calculations, i looking at whether it is his own coalition - or whether it is the pressure from the americans to do a deal and trying to work out, - you know, what is best for him as well as his country. - i think that is complicated. it looks to me like they are fighting the wars of their fathers. they are all basically men, now, and they are haunted by the wars of the past and they seem to be feeling that they are fighting for generations. the intractability of it seems to be that they feel they are representing more than themselves. for both sides, it is existential. hamas worries that if it does not have a deal which ends the war,

this idea of total victory, that they willjust continue in this war of attrition. israel says it has killed, what is it, 17,000. we don't know how many there are, we know it is very difficult to confirm that but as we mentioned, yahya sinwar, the chief is still alive, some of his lieutenants are also still alive. and israel feels very much threatened. it is palpable. i was there a few months ago at the grim six month mark of this warand to a person, every israeli says the 7th of october change everything. gordon, let's talk that ukraine now but first, a note on language, here. ukrainian forces have now crossed the border and taken some bits, they are holding some bits of russian territory in this area called kursk and also just beyond it. what are you, when you are doing a piece for the ten o'clock news or the radio 4 news, what are you calling what ukraine has done? it is a good question because is it a raid? j well, it looks like more than a quick raid. -

they are staying. they are and they are j talking about staying. is it an invasion? . is it an occupation? you know, they are| quite loaded terms. i think part of the problem is, it has unfolded in this- quite surprising way. i think the ukrainians may also be improvising a bit. _ it has taken everyone - by surprise, the russians but also the west, i think. and so, actually, trying to work out what it is has been quite hard - and has taken us a few days. but it increasingly looks - like they might be signalling at least that they want to stay. and yes, then it is something different from a quick - cross—border raid. yes, and not to turn it into a sort of boy's 0wn war story but do we know how the ukrainians actually did it? i mean, in my mind, i'm not an expert on this but russia, huge military, absolutely massive military machine but yet it seems one night, a bunch of ukrainian troops just managed to walk into russia. well, and that is what is quite difficult for russians - to take on board, i think, the fact that they pickedl a place, they clearly— did their reconnaissance work pretty

well, border crossings where it looks like there are basically. a couple of border guards sharing a machine-gun— and that was it. can i ask, is it british tanks that rolled in? western weapons and western vehicles have certainly been used _ and gone over the border, - i think that is one of the really interesting things. not so much interesting as provocative. it is provocative and the russians are picking up on that— because in their minds, - this fulfils their narrative that actually, this is all part - of a master plan by the west to attack russia. kursk was this absolutely iconic tank battle of the 20th century. in the second world war, yes. and we are saying on radio 4 that british tanks have gone there. if you had said a couple of years ago that british tanks would be i heading into russia, _ you know, i mean, admittedly driven by ukrainians rather. than british soldiers... and without british flags flying. yeah, you would have been, really? is that where we are at? i but it is where we are at. britain has always said - that we are supplying weapons for the defence of ukraine. it does get a little bit more i

complicated when the defence of ukraine involves invading russia. ukraine has been very clear to say, this is because these are places - where we are being attacked - from and we are doing it to divert troops who are attacking us in ukraine, so it is part of, i if you like, a defensive operation. but it is still stretching it - and the russians are going to, you know, make something of that. and lyse, that is... if i canjump in here. please do. do we know whether there are quiet conversations going on, not just with the british? today, president putin is accusing ukrainians of using himars missiles. to take out a significant bridge. to take out that bridge. are there quiet conversations behind—the—scenes between washington, london, calling up kyiv and saying, we told you not to do this, we told you not to use these weapons? well... or are they saying, oh, well, look, we are managing. i think western capitals - are catching up on this as well. because i don't think... all the indications are, _ they didn't know this was coming. the ukrainians didn't, i you know, consult their allies, and went for it. and so i think there

is a sense in which,j just like we are trying to work out what language to use, _ western capitals are alsoi looking at it and thinking, what are ukrainians trying to do? how long will this go on for? what is the plan? _ that is almost better. on this chessboard that i keep imagining of this strategy around the world, if ukraine had gone into russia with the say—so of nato allies, we are the allies in nato, they are not in nato, but if it had gone with the express desire and say—so of washington, paris, berlin, london, that would be worse. paris, berlin, london, yes, and it would fulfil putin's narrative. - exactly. that is one of the things, - there is certainly some distress i within kursk and within russia thati ukrainians have been able to do this but there will also be a bit - of rallying round the flag to say, well, we are being invaded and we need to be strong. | let's hear a russian voice now because our sister podcast, ukrainecast, spoke to zhenya, not her real name, who lives in the kursk region and she explained what it is like from

a russian perspective. it has been very, very, extremely anxious for this past week in kursk, very frightening for everyone, due to this dreadful uncertainty. people really don't know, what do we wait for? are we already supposed to run away or stay back? this uncertainty just kills. some people are just literally paralysed by the horror of everything that is going on. and we also had an e—mail from a newscaster, artemis, who asked, does putin have the backing, not so much of his own people but of china, his allies and others, to deliver the "worthy response" that he has promised in ukraine? there is a few things to unpack there, the fact that putin is not alone on the world stage, he has got some pals, and then the fact that he has promised this "worthy response", and no one knows what that means. on china, china has placed... on china, china has played... it has backed russia _

but in a careful way because it does not want to get drawn into too much of a confrontation with the west. - | so the west and the us in particular| has been saying to china, you know, limit your support to russia, don't provide too much - in terms of direct weaponry. china has been there - in the background but not totally supportive. i think we are waiting to see what russia is going to do. i i think the language - from the russians has been, you know, we are going to deal with this, but it has not been, i if you like, escalatory too much because i think they don't - want to admit to their own people i necessarily that things are bad. i oh, so striking back big means something big has happened to you. i yeah, so i think they initiallyl talked about a counterterrorist operation, you know, _ rather than if you like an invasion or a war because of course, it is still a special military. operation in ukraine. i mean, they have never wanted to acknowledge what it - really is, which is a war. back to language. it is interesting, lyse, you mentioned that the world had ignored israel and the palestinians

clearly for at least a decade, certainly maybe post—oslo but you can say in a way, can't you, that when you look at the fact the map of europe was redrawn by putin when he took crimea, that is more than a decade ago. 2014. so you are really looking... yes, excuse me, so you are really looking at a decade's worth of news in this 30 minutes and i think perhaps the way that personally i try and survive the news cycle is by context and with people like you. you have been in kyivjust in the last month, gordon. do they see this as ten years of attrition with russia? yeah, because they talk - about the full—scale invasion of 2022 to distinguish it from the fact, well, - there was a previous invasion back in 2014 _ but the mood when i was there last month was quite bleak. _ you know, it was bleak. the ukrainians had really been- on the back foot on the front lines, there, within ukraine.

and there was a sense that, - you know, the russians were making steady advances and so i think this | operation is partly about changing | the narrative, changing. the story around ukraine, telling their own people, telling the allies, - we can still do something, i we can change the equation which was looking set against us. and lyse, you and i were discussing this very subject on newscast on monday, when the scale of this was becoming clear. it was quite eye—opening for me that actually, military action quite often isn't just about the military action, it is about the morale boosting at home, about the message it can send to washington and perhaps to a presidential candidate about how much fight there is left in the ukrainians. there is so much more going on there rather than just which tank goes where or which bit of ground. wars are always fought on at least two levels. there is the war on the ground and the facts of, you know, the battalions and the bombs and the bullets, and then there is what military people would call the battle for the narrative, which is also the perception. perception of who is

winning, who is losing. in my experience, i don't know whether gordon will agree, it is the perception of what is happening that is often fuelling the war more than what is actually happening on the ground, because it affects, as gordon wasjust hinting, it affects morale, it affects what allies do, it affects the next move, it affects strategy, and they go in lockstep. the battle for the narrative, given the rise of social media, given the cyber wars, is a battle like we have never seen before, on top of, of course, real battles on the ground which are a combination of first world war trench warfare and the most sophisticated... well, we have talked a lot about drone warfare, etc, it is marrying the old and the new with devastating consequences. can we just zoom out, then, and look at this, and paddy, you will love this

because we are looking at world historical context. i mean, it can feel listening to the news that we are in a time of real crisis and there's disasters everywhere and it has never been this unsafe. gordon, you have written books about security and about conflicts. what is your kind of like big picture take on where we are in the cycle of human history, if we can be so bold? and we've only got six minutes left. it's pretty bad, - i think is the top line. you know, one of the things that... we have got two wars effectively, conflicts going on now— which are running pretty hot. now, you could imagine that both of those, you know, - if you wanted to be optimistic, in six months' time, _ you could see negotiations, i you could, which could settle those, freeze them? you know, that's... i don't think that's implausible. but you have got... _ i don't forget you have got otheri things going on the back ground. you have got china and taiwan i which arguably, if that kicks off, is an even bigger thing. you have got security threats around climate change - which are really significant. you have got the disruptive power of social media and technology. going on beneath the surface.

so i think even looking - beyond those two conflicts and what happens with them, i and they could still get worse, let's not pretend they couldn't, i am afraid it does not - look great, i'm sorry. well, we don't want you to cheer us up for the sake of it but on the other hand, there is a sort of narcissism about this, that if you look at all the conflicts in which we have been involved in the 20th century, very significant people and very significant moments changed from war to peace. we can all list some of them. and we make it like this is totally and utterly unseen, i think that is the point you are getting to, adam. what we know, isn't it, lyse, there is a global realignment, the wars plural have pushed the big players into new camps. so this business of north korea, china, iran. and then the fact that one of the heads of hamas is assassinated in tehran, i think partly that is what gordon

is reminding me about, that is why the stakes are beyond the actual two destinations and geographies we are talking about. i'm going to use a phrase i often use and particularly today because, adam, you are reading charles dickens, a tale of two cities, and i often say... lyse and 1's little two person book group! not during the podcast, he's not! but i often use that opening line, "it was the best of times, it was the worst of times." never have we had an architecture both in terms of international agreements, our understanding of international humanitarian law, our ability to communicate with each other, to better understand each other, it is the best of times. but as we have already been discussing on this podcast, it is the worst of times. the level of impunity, the red lines being crossed day—to—day. impunity, in other words, states being able to do things that a few years ago, people would have been aghast at. russia invading, russia is a security council member, invading a neighbour. what is happening in gaza,

the most terrible war in a region which is all to used to wars. war crimes being committed on an industrial scale, day in, day out, in ukraine and in gaza, too many places to count. and it brings you to what you are speaking about, paddy, is that there has been no peace agreements agreed in the last decade. because there are so many actors now, because there is no one country that can prevail over all the others, and because so many countries, in a way, it's good, countries like saudi arabia, india, brazil, south africa, are saying, "excuse me, don't give me a binary world between good and evil and your camp and russian's camp, we are going to choose. sometimes we will look east, sometimes we will look west and we will always look to our own interest". in some ways, that is good because more countries are taking responsibility for their future. but it is a mess, hence we have what we call forever wars.

on a personal level, and maybe it's casting about to try to find some light in the dark, i do believe that sometimes good can come out of bad, and that for example, you know, when president trump pulled out of the landmark iran nuclear deal, and basically created a path, and iran has been on that path, of moving closer to becoming a nuclear weapons power but it says it is not, but in that vacuum, saudi arabia and iran patched up their differences. that was the big rivalry fuelling all of the rivalries in the middle east. back to your question, the crown prince of saudi arabia, mohammed bin salman, admitted last week that he now fears assassination because of that, because he is talking about recognising the state of israel, but it is possible. on that cliffhanger, that is where we are going to have to leave it. newscast from the bbc.

good evening. although the sun wasn't out for all of us today, we did have a good deal of dry weather and that's the way it will continue this evening. if anything, the cloud may break up to reveal a little bit more sunshine, and hopefully there'll be a bit more around tomorrow, but there'll still be a few showers. we've had those pushing through on the brisk wind to the north and west. that continues this evening. the odd one elsewhere, even possibly in east anglia and the southeast, where we've had the lion's share of the day's sunshine. the cloud melts, though, through the night the winds ease further and it'll be another coolish start on sunday morning. perhaps a little bit of fog if you're up early enough, because actually the winds are falling lighter through sunday as the azores high ridges closer to our shores, but still that westerly breeze in the north. although a notch down on those of today, the winds, there's still enough to carry a few showers in, possibly the odd one. northern ireland, northern and western parts of england and wales. but after the morning mist it should be a largely dry, bright day with good spells of sunshine. it will feel pleasantly warm, as it did during the day today. temperatures mightjust be

a degree down in the north, but with lighter winds that will compensate. however, it is all change as we go through the new week, so high pollen levels again through monday, as you can see. but into the new week we've got wind and rain coming in. monday, i think, mostly fine and dry. so sunday into monday out of the ridge of high pressure producing some mist and fog across central and eastern areas, possibly further west with some sea fog. but that rain coming in looks quite intense, particularly the second part of the day across northern ireland, western scotland, northern scotland as well. there'll be cloud piling in around the irish sea coasts, some sea fog here, but further east we've switched our wind direction, picking up more of a southwesterly, so we could again see temperatures nudging above 25 in some spots. it will be warm for all, and a warm night monday into tuesday. warm and wet. as you can see, as that weather system carries its way eastwards behind it on tuesday. lots of showers, heavy thundery showers during monday night and into tuesday as well because it's warm air so we'll still see temperatures

towards the mid 20s in the south and the east, but closer to average further north and west following our rain. but if ijust show you that rainfall as it piles up through the week, mostly in the north and west, but anywhere, really, seeing some rainfall tuesday. but the heaviest falls likely in the north and west, perhaps cumbria and north wales, with some more wet and windy weather midweek on.

live from london, this is bbc news. hezbollah retaliates after reports that at least ten people were killed in an israeli strike on a residential building in lebanon. ukrainian authorities release video of what they say is the moment a key strategic bridge in russia's kursk region is destroyed. venezuela's opposition leader, maria corina machado, leads anti—government demonstrations in caracas, promising continued defiance after nicolas maduro's claim to have won the presidential election. and matthew perry's death brought medical use of the drug ketamine into the spotlight. we ask an expert what people who use it are hoping to achieve. we begin in the middle east, where lebanon says at least ten

people were killed in an israeli strike on a residential building