after the warm up, the main event. we look forward to the biggest beaches of kamala harris and tim walz�*s lives. what do they need to say to win over america? and with the public finances in a worse state than predicted, tax rises and spending cuts now inevitable? —— the biggest speeches. good evening. welcome to newsnight,

your home of sharp insights and illuminating interviews. later, we'll hear how some of the survivors of the sicily yacht disaster described their escape from the sinking boat. translation: they went up a level and they tried _ translation: they went up a level and they tried to _ translation: they went up a level and they tried to get _ translation: they went up a level and they tried to get out _ translation: they went up a level and they tried to get out and - translation: they went up a level and they tried to get out and find i translation: they went up a level and they tried to get out and find a l and they tried to get out and find a way to save themselves. he actually climbed up higher. she, and a suggestion, went up with the child. she had to swim for a bit and went up she had to swim for a bit and went up with a child. he then actually climbed up. he also tried to clear the way by breaking a door because most of the doors were closed. at that point, hejumped into the most of the doors were closed. at that point, he jumped into the water because otherwise, he would have been badly hurt. also tonight, could there be tax rises and spending cuts in the autumn budget? what are the government's options when faced with higher—than—expected borrowing? with us tonight are our panel — former lib dem leaderjo swinson. labour's newly—elected mp for loughborough, jeevun sandher,

who's also an economist. and the former conservative minister and mp damejackie doyle—price. but first, to chicago. in the next few hours, the democratic vice—presidential candidate tim walz will take to the stage. and then, tomorrow night, kamala harris will be aiming to give the speech of her life. we'll bring you all the build—up here on newsnight. joining us now from the democratic national convention in chicago is barack obama's speechwriter while he was in the white house, terry szuplat. now, terry, the lesson of politics on both sides of the atlantic at the moment is that change candidates win. the democrats would clearly acknowledge thatjoe biden struggled on that front. his replacement, kamala harris, appears to have upended this campaign. but as the incumbent vice president, can she sustain herself as the change candidate over the next two months? up up to the finishing line.

i think so. the past few weeks have been remarkable in the united states. there has been a surge in enthusiasm among democrats, donations, volunteers. i have been in the hall for a few nights now, the level of unity and the level of enthusiasm is sort of reminiscent of what we felt in 2008 with president barack obama. yes, absolutely, she is up against a former president. so donald trump is now the former president in his late 70s, he represents a very different kind of vision for america. so absolutely, i think the surge in support we seeing fur is a sign she can sustain that. you're talking about and that surge in support. clearly, the polls have moved in favour of kamala harris. but last night, we did have this rather stern warning from your former boss.

this will still be a tight race, in a closely divided country. a country where too many americans are still struggling. where a lot of americans don't believe government can help. and as we gather here tonight, the people who will decide this election are asking a very simple question — who will fight for me? so president obama in his hometown of chicago saying to his party, do not take anything for granted. terry, you are saying great enthusiasm, but this is going to be a tough and a close fight, isn't it? oh, sure, absolutely. we have been 0h, sure, absolutely. we have been divided country, 50—50 in many ways, for quite some time now. both president obama and michelle obama spoke to that. i'm glad you played that clip, that is one of my

favourite lines from the entire evening because ultimately, an election comes down to a choice. it comes down to a decision. every voter has to ask himself what is important to them. what president obama was trying to do was to point out if millions of americans go to the polls and ask who is standing for me, who is fighting for me? they have two very clear and different choices and he believes and we believe here that the choices of the correct choices kamala harris. in correct choices kamala harris. in the last few hours, we have heard from donald trump in north carolina at what was his first rally outside since that failed assassination attempt on him last month. as we will see in a minute, there was massively enhanced security around the former president. this is what he to say. —— he had to say. comrade kamala, you know? she's comrade. most radical left person ever to run for a high political office in our country.

gets another four years, millions ofjobs that will vanish overnight. if she gets four more years, you're going to see jobs vanish. millions and millions will vanish, and inflation will completely destroy our country. we'll have inflation worse than they've given us. you know, when i gave it to them, i had virtually no inflation. so we had another nickname for kamala harris, but then we did have donald trump focusing on the economy, focusing on the democratic record on that. donald trump puzzle advisers have said to him, focus on the economy are not the character of the economy are not the character of the vice president, that is their weak spot —— donald trump �*s advisers. you must be worried if he's going back and honing in on the economy. 50. he's going back and honing in on the econom . ., ., economy. so, he did that today. i think one of _ economy. so, he did that today. i think one of the _ economy. so, he did that today. i think one of the things _ economy. so, he did that today. i think one of the things we - economy. so, he did that today. i think one of the things we have . think one of the things we have about donald trump as he is constitutionally incapable of staying focused. we are going to be going through this many, many times. today, he focused on the economy. i guarantee within a matter of hours if he is not doing it already, he's

tweeting and posting messages about something else. he cannot stay focused. he is particularly consumed just as he was with the first african—american black president in the united states, —— consumed about his birth certificate and spread lies he was not born in the united states. he has already shown he is consumed by the identity of kamala harris. a lot of what you just played there is stuff he has been saying for more than a decade about everybody he runs against. one of the interesting thing is the american people will face now is this sort of trump constant reruns. he is reading from the same playbook and he has no new hits on kamala harris. she is offering a fresh vision for the country. you hope donald trump — vision for the country. you hope donald trump goes _ vision for the country. you hope donald trump goes to _ vision for the country. you hope donald trump goes to his - vision for the country. you hope donald trump goes to his old i donald trump goes to his old playbook, but you can't guarantee that. we have been talking about the challenges for kamala harris. how to be the change candidate, how to deal with the economy. how would you advise kamala harris if you are

writing that speech for tomorrow night? writing that speech for tomorrow ni . ht? ,, �* ., night? sure. i'm not writing it! i think as president _ night? sure. i'm not writing it! i think as president obama - night? sure. i'm not writing it! i think as president obama said l night? sure. i'm not writing it! i. think as president obama said last night, we want the american people to ask, who is on your side, who is standing upfor to ask, who is on your side, who is standing up for you and yourfamily? poll after poll tells us the american people say the economy is the number one issue. that is going to be the issue on people's mines when they vote. i hope and i expect that her speech will focus overwhelmingly on the pocketbook issues american people care about in their daily lives. she just gave a major speech last week in north carolina where she laid out her economic vision and it is about lowering food prices, lowering the prices of health care and education, lowering the prices of owning a home. so she gets it, she understands, she will be focused on that as so many of the speakers here are. yes, you want to meet your voters where they are and show you are focused and care about what they care about. it

are focused and care about what they care about. ., ., ~' are focused and care about what they care about. ., ., ~ , ., care about. it looks like there is a otential care about. it looks like there is a potential development _ care about. it looks like there is a potential development in - care about. it looks like there is a potential development in this - potential development in this presidential race outside chicago. which is a spokesperson for robert kennedyjunior, who is the independent candidate, is saying that he is going to be the campaign —— he is going to be, the campaign will makea —— he is going to be, the campaign will make a statement on his path forward. and his running mate has been speculating that they might end their campaign and possibly endorse donald trump. what would it mean for kamala harris if the nephew of presidentjohn f kennedy endorses donald trump? president john f kennedy endorses donald trump?— donald trump? sure. i think one thin that donald trump? sure. i think one thing that is _ donald trump? sure. i think one thing that is very _ donald trump? sure. i think one thing that is very important - donald trump? sure. i think one thing that is very important to i thing that is very important to remember is the vast majority of the kennedy family has disavowed robert kennedy family has disavowed robert kennedy and his candidacy. they don't support it. he is a conspiratorial candidate, he is a conspiracy is. this is my personal opinion here. if someone who

traffics in conspiracies teams up with another candidate who traffics in conspiracies, the contrast will be even clearer. you have one candidate who deals with science, facts and evidence. another two candidates who have teamed up who inhabit a very different world. if anything, it might work to kamala harris because my advantage. thank ou. that harris because my advantage. thank you- that was _ harris because my advantage. thank you. that was terry _ harris because my advantage. thank you. that was terry szuplat - harris because my advantage. thank you. that was terry szuplat at - harris because my advantage. thank you. that was terry szuplat at the i you. that was terry szuplat at the democratic national convention. —— kamala harris's advantage. in chicago. we will soon go to sicily to hear about the rescue operation. now let's turn to domestic events back home. we are heading in the direction of rachel reeves's first budget which she will deliver on the 30th of october. we had figures today showing the public finances are not quite as good as we had perhaps expected them to be.

we know that rachel reeves was facing tough choices in her first budget on 30th october because the new chancellor has repeatedly told us she has inherited the worst economic legacy since the second world war. today's worse—than—expected public borrowing figures were immediately seized on by the government as it — unsurprisingly — doubled down on those claims which are hotly disputed by the conservatives. so what choices should the chancellor be considering when she set out her taxation and spending plans? who better than to discuss these matters from our learn old —— learners petal from across the spectrum. let's start with a newly elected labour mp, jeevun sandher. in the guardian, there were nuggets about how rachel reeves will meet those challenges. it talks about how she might raise taxes, that could look at inheritance tax and capital gains tax. raising taxes, is that

consistent with the spirit of labour's general election campaign? the chancellor and the coach macro said, we will not raise taxes on working people. and if you read the small print, what they meant was not raising income tax, vat on national insurance, but that was in the small print. insurance, but that was in the small rint. ., , ., , �*, , print. lots of nuggets, let's see what comes _ print. lots of nuggets, let's see what comes out _ print. lots of nuggets, let's see what comes out in _ print. lots of nuggets, let's see what comes out in this - print. lots of nuggets, let's see what comes out in this budget. | print. lots of nuggets, let's see - what comes out in this budget. but let's be clear, we face the worst economic inheritance as the second world war. the longer squeeze on wages since napoleon threatened our shores, the second was recovery from covid in the g7, the highest energy price increase in the g7 and 3 million out of work because we have the highest nhs waiting list in our history. the foundations of our prosperity have been decimated, we will rebuild that and rachel reeves will rebuild that and rachel reeves will build that in the budget, getting energy bills down investing in clean energy and getting wages up investing in skills and infrastructure.- investing in skills and infrastructure. that was all learners — infrastructure. that was all learners overview - infrastructure. that was all learners overview of - infrastructure. that was all learners overview of the i learners overview of the chancellor's statement at the end of july chancellor's statement at the end of july because you are making the napoleon analogy. i must get you

back to what the guardian was saying. you know who wrote that piece, and wait for the guardian for thousands of years when as labour chancellor, larry elliott knows what they think and he says the chancellor is looking at inheritance tax, raising that and capital gains tax. that means either the chancellor is going to do that all she wants us to think she is going to do that and at the end of october, she will say that it is not as bad as we thought. i october, she will say that it is not as bad as we thought.— october, she will say that it is not as bad as we thought. i used to work at the treasury _ as bad as we thought. i used to work at the treasury and _ as bad as we thought. i used to work at the treasury and there _ as bad as we thought. i used to work at the treasury and there is - as bad as we thought. i used to work at the treasury and there is a - at the treasury and there is a negotiation process to get through this. over £1 trillion of spending to be decided, including the spending review coming up. we will wait to see the decisions from rachel. her head is about ensuring this country grows again and that is where her heart is, so every single person who can try. i have confidence in rachel to make the right decisions for this country, i await those decisions by the budget and the spending review.— and the spending review. jackie, rachel reeves _ and the spending review. jackie, rachel reeves says _ and the spending review. jackie, rachel reeves says she - and the spending review. jackie, rachel reeves says she has - and the spending review. jackie, rachel reeves says she has to i and the spending review. jackie, | rachel reeves says she has to do this because of the dire economic inheritance she has had from the conservatives. three guesses what i

am going to say next! the chancellor is blaming it partly on the mini—budget driven by your very good friend liz truss. is it time for her to say sorry?— friend liz truss. is it time for her to say sorry? come on, you don't send to say sorry? come on, you don't spend £400 — to say sorry? come on, you don't spend £400 million _ to say sorry? come on, you don't spend £400 million on _ to say sorry? come on, you don't spend £400 million on furlough i to say sorry? come on, you don't i spend £400 million on furlough and shut down— spend £400 million on furlough and shut down the economy two years without _ shut down the economy two years without consequences so the idea it is the _ without consequences so the idea it is the mini—budget rather than the 400 billion that has left this absolute hole in public finances is frankly— absolute hole in public finances is frankly for— absolute hole in public finances is frankly for the birds. it disappoints me when my conservative candidates _ disappoints me when my conservative candidates look to put the blame on those _ candidates look to put the blame on those because it is much more complicated. as for what rachel reeves — complicated. as for what rachel reeves is — complicated. as for what rachel reeves is doing, i don't blame her for managing expectations in this way _ for managing expectations in this way this — for managing expectations in this way. this is exactly the time that she needs — way. this is exactly the time that she needs to sort of set out her stall _ she needs to sort of set out her stall this— she needs to sort of set out her stall. this is the time to get the bad news — stall. this is the time to get the bad news out of the way frankly. but if she _ bad news out of the way frankly. but if she sets _ bad news out of the way frankly. but if she sets out the worst case scenario _ if she sets out the worst case scenario where she does deliver a budget— budget and it is not quite as bad, she will— budget and it is not quite as bad, she will have a boost. this is good politics _ she will have a boost. this is good politics from rachel reeves, in truth — politics from rachel reeves, in truth but— politics from rachel reeves, in truth. but we in the conservative party— truth. but we in the conservative party need — truth. but we in the conservative party need to stop focusing on

really— party need to stop focusing on really taking the arguments instead of reheating old rails. weirdly, i agree. weirdly, iagree. this weirdly, i agree. this is more than about liz truss's mini budget. 14 years of conservative government decimated our foundations, years of conservative government decimated ourfoundations, not decimated our foundations, not investing decimated ourfoundations, not investing in our energy security. jackie doyle—price is saying her opponents who unseated her doing good politics but maybe we could talk about politics that has a question over it. rachel reeves talking about the inheritance that started 14 years ago. guess who was in government propping up the conservatives with austerity? presumably pretty big questions for your party although you are a free person now. your party although you are a free person now-— your party although you are a free person now. much more relaxing! i think there — person now. much more relaxing! i think there is _ person now. much more relaxing! i think there is a _ person now. much more relaxing! i think there is a real— person now. much more relaxing! i think there is a real risk— person now. much more relaxing! i think there is a real risk that some | think there is a real risk that some of the _ think there is a real risk that some of the mistakes _ think there is a real risk that some of the mistakes that, _ think there is a real risk that some of the mistakes that, let's - of the mistakes that, let's be clear. — of the mistakes that, let's be clear. we _ of the mistakes that, let's be clear, we made _ of the mistakes that, let's be clear, we made in— of the mistakes that, let's be i clear, we made in government of the mistakes that, let's be - clear, we made in government as liberal— clear, we made in government as liberal democrats, _

clear, we made in government as liberal democrats, could - clear, we made in government as liberal democrats, could be - clear, we made in government as- liberal democrats, could be repeated if there _ liberal democrats, could be repeated if there is— liberal democrats, could be repeated if there is a _ liberal democrats, could be repeated if there is a kind _ liberal democrats, could be repeated if there is a kind of— liberal democrats, could be repeated if there is a kind of return— liberal democrats, could be repeated if there is a kind of return to - if there is a kind of return to austerity— if there is a kind of return to austerity because _ if there is a kind of return to austerity because i- if there is a kind of return to austerity because i think- if there is a kind of return toi austerity because i think that if there is a kind of return to i austerity because i think that is totally— austerity because i think that is totally the _ austerity because i think that is totally the wrong _ austerity because i think that is totally the wrong message - austerity because i think that is totally the wrong message to i austerity because i think that is - totally the wrong message to take. the kind _ totally the wrong message to take. the kind of— totally the wrong message to take. the kind of economic _ totally the wrong message to take. the kind of economic wisdom - totally the wrong message to take. the kind of economic wisdom was i totally the wrong message to take. i the kind of economic wisdom was that that programme — the kind of economic wisdom was that that programme up— the kind of economic wisdom was that that programme up was _ the kind of economic wisdom was that that programme up was needed - the kind of economic wisdom was that that programme up was needed to - the kind of economic wisdom was that that programme up was needed to get our economic— that programme up was needed to get our economic system _ that programme up was needed to get our economic system back _ that programme up was needed to get our economic system back onto - that programme up was needed to get our economic system back onto a - our economic system back onto a secure _ our economic system back onto a secure footing _ our economic system back onto a secure footing and _ our economic system back onto a secure footing and actually - our economic system back onto a secure footing and actually we i our economic system back onto a i secure footing and actually we had seen and _ secure footing and actually we had seen and have _ secure footing and actually we had seen and have all— secure footing and actually we had seen and have all experienced - secure footing and actually we had seen and have all experienced in. secure footing and actually we had l seen and have all experienced in our everyday— seen and have all experienced in our everyday lives — seen and have all experienced in our everyday lives that— seen and have all experienced in our everyday lives that the _ seen and have all experienced in our everyday lives that the economy - seen and have all experienced in our everyday lives that the economy is l everyday lives that the economy is not in _ everyday lives that the economy is not in a _ everyday lives that the economy is not in a good — everyday lives that the economy is not in a good place, _ everyday lives that the economy is not in a good place, it— everyday lives that the economy is not in a good place, it is— everyday lives that the economy is not in a good place, it is not- not in a good place, it is not thriving _ not in a good place, it is not thriving it— not in a good place, it is not thriving. it is— not in a good place, it is not thriving. it is to _ not in a good place, it is not thriving. it is to see - not in a good place, it is not thriving. it is to see a - not in a good place, it is not thriving. it is to see a gp . not in a good place, it is not thriving. it is to see a gp if. not in a good place, it is not. thriving. it is to see a gp if you need _ thriving. it is to see a gp if you need one _ thriving. it is to see a gp if you need one. local— thriving. it is to see a gp if you need one. local schools- thriving. it is to see a gp if you need one. local schools are i thriving. it is to see a gp if you - need one. local schools are having to make _ need one. local schools are having to make people _ need one. local schools are having to make people redundant- need one. local schools are having to make people redundant or- need one. local schools are having to make people redundant or not l to make people redundant or not replacing — to make people redundant or not replacing people _ to make people redundant or not replacing people who _ to make people redundant or not replacing people who leave. - to make people redundant or not. replacing people who leave. there is a real— replacing people who leave. there is a real problems _ replacing people who leave. there is a real problems are _ replacing people who leave. there is a real problems are not _ replacing people who leave. there is a real problems are not just - replacing people who leave. there is a real problems are notjust in - a real problems are notjust in public— a real problems are notjust in public services _ a real problems are notjust in public services but _ a real problems are notjust in public services but problems l a real problems are notjust in i public services but problems for a real problems are notjust in - public services but problems for our economy— public services but problems for our economy because _ public services but problems for our economy because you _ public services but problems for our economy because you cannot - public services but problems for our economy because you cannot have i public services but problems for our| economy because you cannot have a thriving _ economy because you cannot have a thriving economy— economy because you cannot have a thriving economy it— economy because you cannot have a thriving economy if you _ economy because you cannot have a thriving economy if you don't - economy because you cannot have a thriving economy if you don't have l thriving economy if you don't have health— thriving economy if you don't have health and — thriving economy if you don't have health and well—being _ thriving economy if you don't have health and well—being within - thriving economy if you don't have health and well—being within the i health and well—being within the country — health and well—being within the country we _ health and well—being within the country. we all— health and well—being within the country. we all know _ health and well—being within the country. we all know somebodyl health and well—being within the - country. we all know somebody who is suffering _ country. we all know somebody who is suffering from — country. we all know somebody who is suffering from non—covid _ country. we all know somebody who is suffering from non—covid and - country. we all know somebody who is suffering from non—covid and that - suffering from non—covid and that has impacted _ suffering from non—covid and that has impacted their— suffering from non—covid and that has impacted their own _ suffering from non—covid and that has impacted their own working i suffering from non—covid and that i has impacted their own working life. that is— has impacted their own working life. that is really— has impacted their own working life. that is really bad _ has impacted their own working life. that is really bad for— has impacted their own working life. that is really bad for the _ has impacted their own working life. that is really bad for the economy, i that is really bad for the economy, as well— that is really bad for the economy, as well as — that is really bad for the economy, as well as being _ that is really bad for the economy, as well as being personally- that is really bad for the economy, as well as being personally tragic. as well as being personally tragic for those — as well as being personally tragic for those individuals. _ as well as being personally tragic for those individuals. so - as well as being personally tragic for those individuals. so we - as well as being personally tragicj for those individuals. so we need that investment _ for those individuals. so we need that investment in _ for those individuals. so we need that investment in our— for those individuals. so we need that investment in our schools. for those individuals. so we need. that investment in our schools and hospitals _ that investment in our schools and hospitals and _ that investment in our schools and

hospitals and general— that investment in our schools and hospitals and general public - hospitals and general public infrastructure. _ hospitals and general public infrastructure. but - hospitals and general public infrastructure. but we - hospitals and general public infrastructure. but we also. hospitals and general public - infrastructure. but we also need an investment— infrastructure. but we also need an investment in— infrastructure. but we also need an investment in the _ infrastructure. but we also need an investment in the future _ infrastructure. but we also need an investment in the future and - infrastructure. but we also need an investment in the future and that l infrastructure. but we also need an| investment in the future and that is what i _ investment in the future and that is what i would — investment in the future and that is what i would really _ investment in the future and that is what i would really like _ investment in the future and that is what i would really like to - investment in the future and that is what i would really like to see - investment in the future and that is what i would really like to see from j what i would really like to see from rache!— what i would really like to see from rachel reeves. _ what i would really like to see from rachel reeves. we _ what i would really like to see from rachel reeves. we are _ what i would really like to see from rachel reeves. we are facing - rachel reeves. we are facing multiple _ rachel reeves. we are facing multiple challenges, - rachel reeves. we are facing multiple challenges, whetherj rachel reeves. we are facing l multiple challenges, whether it rachel reeves. we are facing - multiple challenges, whether it is the nature — multiple challenges, whether it is the nature of— multiple challenges, whether it is the nature of the _ multiple challenges, whether it is the nature of the climate - multiple challenges, whether it is the nature of the climate crisis, i the nature of the climate crisis, massive — the nature of the climate crisis, massive inequality _ the nature of the climate crisis, massive inequality holding - the nature of the climate crisis, i massive inequality holding people back, _ massive inequality holding people back, we — massive inequality holding people back, we need _ massive inequality holding people back, we need to _ massive inequality holding people back, we need to invest— massive inequality holding people back, we need to invest in- massive inequality holding people back, we need to invest in the - back, we need to invest in the future — back, we need to invest in the future and _ back, we need to invest in the future and there _ back, we need to invest in the future and there is— back, we need to invest in the future and there is a - back, we need to invest in the future and there is a real- future and there is a real opportunity— future and there is a real opportunity to— future and there is a real opportunity to do - future and there is a real opportunity to do that i future and there is a reall opportunity to do that but future and there is a real- opportunity to do that but labour unfortunately _ opportunity to do that but labour unfortunately rolled _ opportunity to do that but labour unfortunately rolled back - opportunity to do that but labour unfortunately rolled back on - opportunity to do that but labour unfortunately rolled back on the i unfortunately rolled back on the initial— unfortunately rolled back on the initial plans _ unfortunately rolled back on the initial plans they _ unfortunately rolled back on the initial plans they had _ unfortunately rolled back on the initial plans they had for - unfortunately rolled back on the initial plans they had for the - unfortunately rolled back on the | initial plans they had for the £28 billion— initial plans they had for the £28 billion of— initial plans they had for the £28 billion of investment _ initial plans they had for the £28 billion of investment to - initial plans they had for the £28 billion of investment to grow - initial plans they had for the £28j billion of investment to grow the economy — billion of investment to grow the economy io— billion of investment to grow the econom . g ., , billion of investment to grow the econom ., ., , ,., billion of investment to grow the econom .g ., , ,., ., billion of investment to grow the econom .g ., , ., ., economy. jo is sounding relaxed and liberated but — economy. jo is sounding relaxed and liberated but talks _ economy. jo is sounding relaxed and liberated but talks from _ economy. jo is sounding relaxed and liberated but talks from personal- liberated but talks from personal experience, costs paid by her party for austerity and saying rachel reeves is in danger of making the same mistake. isn't therejust reeves is in danger of making the same mistake. isn't there just one word separating this labour government from austerity and that is growth? you are an economist, rachel reeves always talking about growth, you are an economist, you know growth doesn't happen overnight. it know growth doesn't happen overnight-— know growth doesn't happen overniaht. ., , �* ., ., know growth doesn't happen overniaht. ., , �* . ., , overnight. it doesn't and that is why investments _ overnight. it doesn't and that is why investments will _ overnight. it doesn't and that is why investments will get - overnight. it doesn't and that is| why investments will get growth coming. gb energy, we started talking about the united states, the

fastest recovery in the g7 because they invested in green energy recovery. this is about more than the foundations, the investment on one side, and health and education for stop we will hire a lot more doctors and nurses pay for that by ending the non—dom tax break. we will hire a lot more teachers, paid for by ending the private school tax break. there are real investments were going to make so it's about more than growth, it's about investment we have set out and that rachel will be talking about in more detail come the budget.— detail come the budget. jackie, you were saying — detail come the budget. jackie, you were saying through _ detail come the budget. jackie, you were saying through gritted - detail come the budget. jackie, you were saying through gritted teeth i were saying through gritted teeth that you can sort of see the politics here and almost admire the politics here and almost admire the politics of the party that unseated. .. politics of the party that unseated... is rachel reeves taking a leaf out of george osborne's book, the election where you got elected where he pinned everything on gordon brown? ! where he pinned everything on gordon brown? ., , where he pinned everything on gordon brown? ~' , ., brown? i think there is an element ofthat brown? i think there is an element of that here _ brown? i think there is an element of that here but _ brown? i think there is an element of that here but i _ brown? i think there is an element of that here but i would _ brown? i think there is an element of that here but i would like - brown? i think there is an element of that here but i would like to - of that here but i would like to see, _ of that here but i would like to see and — of that here but i would like to see and i_ of that here but i would like to see, and i say this about my party and across— see, and i say this about my party and across the political spectrum, i would _ and across the political spectrum, i would like — and across the political spectrum, i would like to see all politicians really — would like to see all politicians really level with the public about

the fact — really level with the public about the fact that actually, we can only spend. _ the fact that actually, we can only spend, government only spend what it takes from _ spend, government only spend what it takes from your taxes. we have to have _ takes from your taxes. we have to have a _ takes from your taxes. we have to have a competitive tax system if we're _ have a competitive tax system if we're going to have growth. that means— we're going to have growth. that means making difficult choices. we are going _ means making difficult choices. we are going to have to have some element — are going to have to have some element of reform to get better value _ element of reform to get better value for— element of reform to get better value for taxpayers. we have seen billions. _ value for taxpayers. we have seen billions, extra billions go into the nhs but — billions, extra billions go into the nhs but productivity is falling. there — nhs but productivity is falling. there is— nhs but productivity is falling. there is something seriously wrong. we need _ there is something seriously wrong. we need to— there is something seriously wrong. we need to be really honest with the public and _ we need to be really honest with the public and say if you want the state to provide — public and say if you want the state to provide the services, this is what _ to provide the services, this is what is — to provide the services, this is what is going to cost you and have a proper— what is going to cost you and have a proper debate. asjo said, we have to provide — proper debate. asjo said, we have to provide for the future. there has been _ to provide for the future. there has been a _ to provide for the future. there has been a lot— to provide for the future. there has been a lot of— to provide for the future. there has been a lot of a short—term view on how we _ been a lot of a short—term view on how we make public spending decisions and the coalition government would be a case in point. what do _ government would be a case in point. what do you — government would be a case in point. what do you think of this, jo, the honesty? what do you think of this, jo, the hones ? �* ., ., ~' honesty? amen to long-term thinking, there is so much _ honesty? amen to long-term thinking, there is so much short-term _ honesty? amen to long-term thinking, there is so much short-term is - honesty? amen to long-term thinking, there is so much short-term is rife - there is so much short—term is rife in our— there is so much short—term is rife in our economy _ there is so much short—term is rife in our economy. we _ there is so much short—term is rife in our economy. we make - there is so much short—term is rifei in our economy. we make decisions there is so much short—term is rife - in our economy. we make decisions on what be _ in our economy. we make decisions on what be the _ in our economy. we make decisions on what be the outcome _ in our economy. we make decisions on what be the outcome in _ in our economy. we make decisions on what be the outcome in 15— in our economy. we make decisions on what be the outcome in 15 or— in our economy. we make decisions on what be the outcome in 15 or 20 - what be the outcome in 15 or 20 years. _ what be the outcome in 15 or 20 years. and — what be the outcome in 15 or 20 years. and an— what be the outcome in 15 or 20 years, and an investment- what be the outcome in 15 or 20 years, and an investment that l what be the outcome in 15 or 20 i years, and an investment that will pay off— years, and an investment that will pay off is—

years, and an investment that will pay off is seen _ years, and an investment that will pay off is seen not _ years, and an investment that will pay off is seen not worth - years, and an investment that will pay off is seen not worth to - years, and an investment that will pay off is seen not worth to be - pay off is seen not worth to be doing — pay off is seen not worth to be doing i— pay off is seen not worth to be doing ithink— pay off is seen not worth to be doing. i think we're _ pay off is seen not worth to be doing. i think we're doing - pay off is seen not worth to be doing. i think we're doing a i doing. i think we're doing a disservice _ doing. i think we're doing a disservice to— doing. i think we're doing a disservice to our— doing. i think we're doing a disservice to our children i doing. i think we're doing a l disservice to our children and doing. i think we're doing a - disservice to our children and our children's— disservice to our children and our children's children _ disservice to our children and our children's children not _ disservice to our children and our children's children not to - disservice to our children and our children's children not to be - children's children not to be looking _ children's children not to be looking ahead _ children's children not to be looking ahead to _ children's children not to be looking ahead to the - children's children not to be looking ahead to the futurel children's children not to be - looking ahead to the future and making — looking ahead to the future and making those _ looking ahead to the future and making those investments. - looking ahead to the future and making those investments. sol looking ahead to the future and - making those investments. so that is what i _ making those investments. so that is what i want _ making those investments. so that is what i want to — making those investments. so that is what i want to see _ making those investments. so that is what i want to see differently. - what i want to see differently. partly— what i want to see differently. partly it — what i want to see differently. partly it is _ what i want to see differently. partly it is tough _ what i want to see differently. partly it is tough choices - what i want to see differently. partly it is tough choices but l what i want to see differently. i partly it is tough choices but too often _ partly it is tough choices but too often it — partly it is tough choices but too often it comes _ partly it is tough choices but too often it comes down _ partly it is tough choices but too often it comes down to, - partly it is tough choices but too often it comes down to, we - partly it is tough choices but too often it comes down to, we willl partly it is tough choices but too - often it comes down to, we will make these _ often it comes down to, we will make these cuts~ _ often it comes down to, we will make these cuts~ yes. _ often it comes down to, we will make these cuts. yes, there _ often it comes down to, we will make these cuts. yes, there does - often it comes down to, we will make these cuts. yes, there does need - often it comes down to, we will make these cuts. yes, there does need to. these cuts. yes, there does need to be openness — these cuts. yes, there does need to be openness about _ these cuts. yes, there does need to be openness about tax _ these cuts. yes, there does need to be openness about tax rises. - these cuts. yes, there does need to be openness about tax rises. the i these cuts. yes, there does need to| be openness about tax rises. the lib dems— be openness about tax rises. the lib dems went _ be openness about tax rises. the lib dems went into— be openness about tax rises. the lib dems went into the _ be openness about tax rises. the lib dems went into the election - dems went into the election identifying _ dems went into the election identifying capital— dems went into the election identifying capital gains - dems went into the election identifying capital gains tax i dems went into the election. identifying capital gains tax is dems went into the election - identifying capital gains tax is an area or— identifying capital gains tax is an area or getting _ identifying capital gains tax is an area or getting rid _ identifying capital gains tax is an area or getting rid of— identifying capital gains tax is an area or getting rid of the - identifying capital gains tax is an area or getting rid of the tax- identifying capital gains tax is an| area or getting rid of the tax cuts the conservatives _ area or getting rid of the tax cuts the conservatives gave _ area or getting rid of the tax cuts the conservatives gave the - area or getting rid of the tax cutsi the conservatives gave the banks, which _ the conservatives gave the banks, which we — the conservatives gave the banks, which we didn't _ the conservatives gave the banks, which we didn't seem _ the conservatives gave the banks, which we didn't seem to _ the conservatives gave the banks, which we didn't seem to think - the conservatives gave the banks, which we didn't seem to think was the conservatives gave the banks, i which we didn't seem to think was a priority— which we didn't seem to think was a priority because _ which we didn't seem to think was a priority because it _ which we didn't seem to think was a priority because it was _ which we didn't seem to think was a priority because it was not - which we didn't seem to think was a priority because it was not their - priority because it was not their most _ priority because it was not their most needed _ priority because it was not their most needed. it— priority because it was not their most needed. it was _ priority because it was not their most needed. it was needed i priority because it was not their| most needed. it was needed for hard-working _ most needed. it was needed for hard—working people _ most needed. it was needed for hard—working people struggling| most needed. it was needed for. hard—working people struggling to -et hard—working people struggling to get by _ hard—working people struggling to get by but— hard—working people struggling to get by but i— hard—working people struggling to get by. but i think— hard—working people struggling to get by. but i think there _ hard—working people struggling to get by. but i think there is- hard—working people struggling to get by. but i think there is a - hard—working people struggling to get by. but i think there is a casel get by. but i think there is a case for looking — get by. but i think there is a case for looking at _ get by. but i think there is a case for looking at the _ get by. but i think there is a case for looking at the most _ get by. but i think there is a case for looking at the most wealthyi get by. but i think there is a case| for looking at the most wealthy in our society— for looking at the most wealthy in our society where _ for looking at the most wealthy in our society where they _ for looking at the most wealthy in our society where they are - for looking at the most wealthy in our society where they are able i for looking at the most wealthy in| our society where they are able to bear that — our society where they are able to bear that cost _ our society where they are able to bear that cost and _ our society where they are able to bear that cost and to _ our society where they are able to bear that cost and to look - our society where they are able to bear that cost and to look at - bear that cost and to look at international— bear that cost and to look at international efforts - bear that cost and to look at international efforts that - bear that cost and to look atj international efforts that are bear that cost and to look at - international efforts that are now taking _ international efforts that are now taking place _ international efforts that are now taking place. brazil— international efforts that are now taking place. brazil is _ international efforts that are now taking place. brazil is leading - international efforts that are now taking place. brazil is leading a i taking place. brazil is leading a lot of— taking place. brazil is leading a lot of discussions _ taking place. brazil is leading a lot of discussions about - taking place. brazil is leading a lot of discussions about could i taking place. brazil is leading a i lot of discussions about could you -et lot of discussions about could you get international— lot of discussions about could you get international agreement - lot of discussions about could you get international agreement on i get international agreement on wealth— get international agreement on wealth taxation _ get international agreement on wealth taxation like _ get international agreement on wealth taxation like you - get international agreement on wealth taxation like you have i get international agreement on i wealth taxation like you have had get international agreement on - wealth taxation like you have had on corporation — wealth taxation like you have had on corporation tax — wealth taxation like you have had on corporation tax so _ wealth taxation like you have had on corporation tax so you _ wealth taxation like you have had on corporation tax so you get _ wealth taxation like you have had on corporation tax so you get away- wealth taxation like you have had on| corporation tax so you get away from the argument — corporation tax so you get away from the argument of _ corporation tax so you get away from the argument of saying, _ corporation tax so you get away from the argument of saying, we - corporation tax so you get away from the argument of saying, we can't- the argument of saying, we can't increase — the argument of saying, we can't increase taxes _ the argument of saying, we can't increase taxes on _ the argument of saying, we can't increase taxes on the _ the argument of saying, we can't increase taxes on the wealthy. increase taxes on the wealthy because —

increase taxes on the wealthy because people _ increase taxes on the wealthy because people go _ increase taxes on the wealthyl because people go elsewhere. increase taxes on the wealthy- because people go elsewhere. there are some _ because people go elsewhere. there are some really— because people go elsewhere. there are some really exciting _ are some really exciting conversations _ are some really excitingl conversations happening are some really exciting - conversations happening globally about— conversations happening globally about this — conversations happening globally about this and _ conversations happening globally about this and i _ conversations happening globally about this and i would _ conversations happening globally about this and i would love - conversations happening globally about this and i would love to - conversations happening globallyl about this and i would love to see the chancellor— about this and i would love to see the chancellor commit _ about this and i would love to see the chancellor commit to - about this and i would love to see the chancellor commit to that. i about this and i would love to see the chancellor commit to that. [i the chancellor commit to that. would imagine you would say the chancellor commit to that.“ would imagine you would say an example of that honesty was rachel reeves making what was a disputed claim of an unexpected £22 billion black hole in the public finances. what the conservatives are saying, hang on a minute, around 9 billion of that is from the pay awards that the chancellor has agreed for public sector workers. the chancellor has agreed for public sectorworkers. now the chancellor has agreed for public sector workers. now there appears to be a bit of a sting on the tail. tonight the ft reporting the fbu in the tuc, there is a motion calling for pay restoration for above inflation pay rises. isn't that what happened when the junior doctors asked for 30% in pay restoration and the health secretary gives them nearly all of it, 22%?— the health secretary gives them nearly all of it, 22%? festival, it is not disputed. _ nearly all of it, 22%? festival, it is not disputed. the _ nearly all of it, 22%? festival, it is not disputed. the obr - nearly all of it, 22%? festival, it - is not disputed. the obr themselves saying it has to be reviewed given the fact there was a huge overspend this year, that presumably the previous government knew about. i’m previous government knew about. i'm not asking you to repeat these lines about what the chancellor said but

if the chancellor agrees to these pay awards, is that not a green light for the unions to say more and that appears to be what is happening?— that appears to be what is hauuenin? , ,, happening? this is an responsible government _ happening? this is an responsible government that _ happening? this is an responsible government that honoured - happening? this is an responsible government that honoured the i government that honoured the recommendations of the pay review bodies. we want the trains to run than meat on time and doctors and nurses to be there when we need them. last year's train strikes cost us £800 million. if my mum becomes sick, i want there to be a doctor and nurse her there to treat her and i want to make sure that my constituents and my friends can get to work on the train. yes, we honoured those pay deals to get our country working again. welcome to responsible government.— country working again. welcome to responsible government. thank you to the anel responsible government. thank you to the panelfor— responsible government. thank you to the panel for that _ responsible government. thank you to the panel for that lively _ the panel for that lively discussion. rescuers off the coast of sicily say five bodies have today been found inside the bayesian, the yacht belonging to the family of the british tech tycoon mike lynch. so far, four bodies have been brought to shore. one person remains missing. today's developments have dashed

hopes that some of the missing may have survived in air pockets after the yacht sank in atrocious weather conditions. claudia pelaia was part of the team treating and supporting the survivors at the hospital including charlotte golunski, who was rescued along with her husband and baby. i spoke to claudia and began by asking her what she'd been told about the events of that night. translation: so, | met both i the mother and later, the father. i saw the whole family together. at first, i saw the mother with the child. the mum was clearly traumatised. she was shocked. her body and wide—open eyes clearly showed the state of shock. they were incredulous about what had happened, because they said that they were sleeping in the cabin and at a certain point, they heard a loud noise and woke up. at that point, they thought that the boat was tilting, and it was tilting too much.

the husband, in particular, realised that something more serious had happened, that it wasn't something simple. so they immediately went up because the boat has three levels. and they were on the lower level. they went up a level and they tried to get out and find a way to save themselves. he actually climbed up higher. she, on his suggestion, went ahead with the child. she had to swim for a bit, and she had to lift the child. he then actually climbed up. he also tried to clear the way by breaking a door because most of the doors were closed. eventually, the storm ended and he realised that the best solution was to jump into the water. at that point, he jumped into the water because otherwise, he would have been badly hurt. then, they found themselves on the rescue rafts came to save them.

last night, on newsnight, we spoke to dr fabio genco, who's one of the emergency doctors who treated the survivors as they came ashore. and he said in their account that it was all darkness, and there was something like three to five minutes from the yacht being lifted by the waves and then sinking those 50 metres happen —— it happened very, very quickly. you either needed to be on deck or alert really quickly. if you were asleep, it looks like there was no hope. translation: they had no idea. in the sense that everyone was in their own cabin, sleeping. probably, but this isjust an idea we have, because it is more likely as they emphasised several times, it lasted very little. those few minutes, though, were very crucial for them. now, from the pictures we've seen, it looks like the local community in porticello are pulling together,

providing incredible support for the survivors. how is the local community, your local community responding to this? translation: well, clearly, they were all astonished - about what had happened. and i must say, there was a lot of sympathy. everybody did what they could to help, starting from the nearby boat, the people in the vicinity, the hospital and all of us. thank you for talking to bbc newsnight. that was claudia pelaia. let's take a quick look at a few of the stories on the front pages. let's begin with the daily mail. superyacht hopes last as divers find five bodies. obviously the story we were reporting just there. the daily mail saying tycoon mike lynch and daughter thought to be among those followed in the wreck after a desperate three day search. it is important to say that that has not

been confirmed about mike lynch and his daughter. that time is leading on that story with a picture of the rescue operation. interestingly, on the top of the page, that is known as a hamperfrom my the top of the page, that is known as a hamper from my old the top of the page, that is known as a hamperfrom my old days in newspapers, free movement for the under 30s and reset of eu relations say ministers are prepared to allow young europeans to live and work in britain as part of a reset with relations with brussels. the independent, zelinsky needle putin with drone attack on moscow. that is all those drone strikes from ukraine on the russian capital. the daily telegraph, alzheimer's wonder drug given the go—ahead and pictures of the sicilian rescue operation. down the sicilian rescue operation. down the bottom, labour's tax cut moves. the guardian, uk please threaten extradition to tackle six torsion criminals. and the bottom left—hand corner, the guardian has been

focusing a lot on the benefit cap. on the front page of the ft, the story we were talking about, public sector unions challenge labour to repair losses from a decade sector unions challenge labour to repair losses from a decade of pay cuts. i don't mean to go back over painful history, jo, but five years ago i remember you are going to be prime minister in the 2019 general election you are going to get all of the remain voters to vote for you and this story in the times saying this labour government talking about free movement for the under 30s, what do you think of that? i free movement for the under 30s, what do you think of that?- what do you think of that? i think it is really good _ what do you think of that? i think it is really good news. _ what do you think of that? i think it is really good news. it - what do you think of that? i think it is really good news. it is - what do you think of that? i think it is really good news. it is now. it is really good news. it is now much more _ it is really good news. it is now much more understood - it is really good news. it is now much more understood brexiti it is really good news. it is now. much more understood brexit has it is really good news. it is now- much more understood brexit has been a bit of— much more understood brexit has been a bit of a _ much more understood brexit has been a bit of a disaster— much more understood brexit has been a bit of a disaster for— much more understood brexit has been a bit of a disaster for the _ much more understood brexit has been a bit of a disaster for the economy- a bit of a disaster for the economy and for— a bit of a disaster for the economy and for opportunities _ a bit of a disaster for the economy and for opportunities for _ a bit of a disaster for the economy and for opportunities for young - and for opportunities for young people — and for opportunities for young people among _ and for opportunities for young people among other— and for opportunities for young people among other things - and for opportunities for young| people among other things and and for opportunities for young i people among other things and i think— people among other things and i think it _ people among other things and i think it is — people among other things and i think it is really— people among other things and i think it is really positive - people among other things and i think it is really positive if- people among other things and i think it is really positive if this i think it is really positive if this government. _ think it is really positive if this government. i_ think it is really positive if this government, i want— think it is really positive if this government, i want to - think it is really positive if this government, i want to see - think it is really positive if this i government, i want to see more think it is really positive if this - government, i want to see more of this: _ government, i want to see more of this, does— government, i want to see more of this, does a _ government, i want to see more of this, does a reset— government, i want to see more of this, does a reset of— government, i want to see more of this, does a reset of relations - government, i want to see more of this, does a reset of relations with| this, does a reset of relations with our european _ this, does a reset of relations with our european partners _ this, does a reset of relations with our european partners because - this, does a reset of relations with our european partners because ini this, does a reset of relations with i our european partners because in so many ways, — our european partners because in so many ways, we — our european partners because in so many ways, we are _ our european partners because in so many ways, we are intertwined - our european partners because in so many ways, we are intertwined with| many ways, we are intertwined with them _ many ways, we are intertwined with them in _ many ways, we are intertwined with them in terms— many ways, we are intertwined with them in terms of— many ways, we are intertwined with them in terms of economics. - many ways, we are intertwined with them in terms of economics. what you think of that, — them in terms of economics. what you think of that, jackie? _ them in terms of economics. what you think of that, jackie? i _ them in terms of economics. what you think of that, jackie? i would - think of that, jackie? i would rather have _ think of that, jackie? i would rather have young _ think of that, jackie? i would rather have young people - think of that, jackie? i would - rather have young people coming here

for a couple _ rather have young people coming here for a couple of years to work than having _ for a couple of years to work than having to buy a place at university to find _ having to buy a place at university to find their way here. i think we have _ to find their way here. i think we have a _ to find their way here. i think we have a need _ to find their way here. i think we have a need for a mature debate about _ have a need for a mature debate about immigration here. people voted brexit— about immigration here. people voted brexit because they were promised we would _ brexit because they were promised we would take _ brexit because they were promised we would take care of our borders, we have _ would take care of our borders, we have seen— would take care of our borders, we have seen illegal migration rise. but if— have seen illegal migration rise. but if we — have seen illegal migration rise. but if we are going to rely on migrant— but if we are going to rely on migrant labour to feed growth, which has frankly— migrant labour to feed growth, which has frankly been the treasury's way for the _ has frankly been the treasury's way for the last— has frankly been the treasury's way for the last 20 years, then that need _ for the last 20 years, then that need some sort of choices about building — need some sort of choices about building housing to accommodate them _ building housing to accommodate them. ., ., ., ., �* them. voted for all that brexit legislation _ them. voted for all that brexit legislation and _ them. voted for all that brexit legislation and relaxed - them. voted for all that brexit legislation and relaxed about i them. voted for all that brexit i legislation and relaxed about that now. i rememberyou legislation and relaxed about that now. i remember you stood on a ticket to make brexit work. it's free movement there under 30s, is that the spirit of brexit? i free movement there under 30s, is that the spirit of brexit?— that the spirit of brexit? i won't comment on — that the spirit of brexit? i won't comment on the _ that the spirit of brexit? i won't comment on the speculation i that the spirit of brexit? i won't| comment on the speculation but that the spirit of brexit? i won't i comment on the speculation but we spoke about a proper brexit deal that benefits businesses. they are struggling with the checks and paperwork. we were talking about what we are going to do. those negotiations are going to start pretty soon and i look forward to

seeing the outcome of them.