regulator recommends a single regulator answerable to a government minister so that officials in the industry can be held to account. so one thing you labs at hearing about and seeing straightaway is this idea of tightening up accountability, tightening up accountability, tightening up accountability, tightening up regulation, lines of reporting so that a solid overview can be gained of what is going on, whether it about building certificates, the nature of material that is used in construction and whether it is safe to actually put on buildings. well, of course, you will know that the london fire brigade was also examined as part of this inquiry. let me just tell you a little bit about what the inquiry said about what the inquiry said about that, referring to these notes. the fact that the london fire brigade had known since the 2009 fire, another fire in london in a high—rise building

in six people died. they face challenges are fighting blazes in the high—rise block. they said that the firefighters who went into grenfell had not been prepared for what they would need to go through to try and save lives. joining me now is matt wrack, general secretary of the fire brigades union. hello. the london fire brigade has released _ hello. the london fire brigade has released a _ hello. the london fire brigade has released a press - hello. the london fire brigade has released a press delete i has released a press delete that statement but has not made themselves available to interview. what you think about that? ., , ., ., that? that is for them to answer- _ that? that is for them to answer. we _ that? that is for them to answer. we do _ that? that is for them to answer. we do not - that? that is for them to | answer. we do not speak that? that is for them to - answer. we do not speak for them and obviously, there are debates and criticism. i’m debates and criticism. i'm askin: debates and criticism. i'm asking you _ debates and criticism. i'm asking you for— debates and criticism. i'm asking you for your - debates and criticism. i'm asking you for your opinion you are here doing the interview. it's up to him to decide whether he should or should not attend this debate.— attend this debate. what you make of those _ attend this debate. what you make of those criticisms - attend this debate. what you make of those criticisms thatj make of those criticisms that the firefighters who went into grenfell had not been prepared for what they to battle? had the inquiry said that senior

officers had been complacent and lack the skills to recognise the problem and correct them. there was a failure to share knowledge about cladding fires and failure to plan for a large number of 999 calls or train staff on what to tell trapped residents. i staff on what to tell trapped residents.— residents. i think those are very important _ residents. i think those are very important criticisms i residents. i think those are l very important criticisms that need you are not making this point but i want to make clear that we need to do differentiate between front line firefighters and those people running the london fire brigade. we had significant criticism of people who did run the london fire brigade i think the london fire brigade i think the firefighters on the night of grenfell for performing amazing tax including remarkable acts of bravery and initiative in the most difficult of circumstances. but it is true that the fire service in london and elsewhere had warning signs and they should have thought about the risks of cladding systems, fire safety failings and they failed to prepare for that and

therefore placed firefighters in an impossible situation on the night. in an impossible situation on the night-— the night. and i would 'ust sa , i the night. and i would 'ust say. i have i the night. and i would 'ust say, i have spoken i the night. and i would 'ust say, i have spoken to h the night. and i wouldjust say, i have spoken to a - the night. and i wouldjust- say, i have spoken to a former firefighter today and a survivor of the fire who told me that those firefighters on the night are higher absolute heroes. so i appreciate the distinction that you are making them. i think all of as well. why white management preparing theirfighters? because we had other fires, theirfighters? because we had otherfires, as theirfighters? because we had other fires, as we theirfighters? because we had otherfires, as we have heard, that should have prepared people for the potential of this happening?— people for the potential of this happening? indeed, we ourselves— this happening? indeed, we ourselves in _ this happening? indeed, we ourselves in a _ this happening? indeed, we ourselves in a union - this happening? indeed, we ourselves in a union in - this happening? indeed, we ourselves in a union in 99 l ourselves in a union in 99 following a fire made a presentation in the house of commons warning precisely about the risk of cladding systems in the risk of cladding systems in the external spread of fire of a building. that warning was ignored. there were a whole series of warnings. i think the fire service management, a senior management of the fire rescue service failed to stand up rescue service failed to stand up to government. i think to me

the thing that stands out most from the executive summary of the inquiry is the role of central government in deregulating building safety over decades. i think the criticism of the fire service leadership is their failure to challenge that.— challenge that. even if they weren't challenging - challenge that. even if they weren't challenging that, i challenge that. even if they l weren't challenging that, why weren't challenging that, why were they not training those firefighters who were going out onto the ground to tackle blazes like that?- onto the ground to tackle blazes like that? clearly, they should have _ blazes like that? clearly, they should have but _ blazes like that? clearly, they should have but there - blazes like that? clearly, they should have but there is - should have but there is another question there because that tends to assume that we should accept that there are unsafe buildings. we havejust seen last week in dagenham anotherfire in a seen last week in dagenham another fire in a seven story block of flats where cladding was being removed and luckily, no one was killed in that fire. the firefighters performed wonders and managed to get everybody out safely but the issue for me is that we should not be accepting that that type of building is allowed to exist in britain. we are a rich country, why are we compromising people's safety in

the homes that they live in and then expecting firefighters to pick up the pieces when that goes wrong? the fundamental causes that there is a building safety crisis. we causes that there is a building safety crisis.— safety crisis. we have been reporting — safety crisis. we have been reporting to _ safety crisis. we have been reporting to today - safety crisis. we have been reporting to today how- reporting to today how according to data there are 6000 buildings with the type of cladding that was on grenfell, combustible cladding. remediation work hadn't started on half of those.— on half of those. that is true. there may — on half of those. that is true. there may be _ on half of those. that is true. there may be others - on half of those. that is true. there may be others beside l on half of those. that is true. i there may be others beside that number. if a fire was to star in one of those buildings, heaven forbid, with that sort of cladding, later today, heaven forbid, with that sort of cladding, latertoday, how is the fire service going to respond? is it better trained, better ready to issue, for example an evacuation order sooner? ~ ~ sooner? well, i think there have been _ sooner? well, i think there have been changes - sooner? well, i think there have been changes in - sooner? well, i think there have been changes in sire i have been changes in sire services. one of the problems as there is not in anyjoined up as there is not in anyjoined up thinking in the fire service, in england, for instance it's very fragmented. every fire service in england

has a different policy on how to tackle high—rise fires. every fire service has a different response standard on how they get to a fire, and how many firefighters they send. for us as a union representative, that makes no sense whatsoever. we wrote to me theresa may immediately after grenfell to raise a point and we never got an answer. and and we never got an answer. and have ou and we never got an answer. and have you written _ and we never got an answer. and have you written to... ? we - have you written to... ? we will be writing _ have you written to... ? - will be writing with exactly the same point. we have raised the same point. we have raised the question of the better national standards in the fire service and to be fair to them, the new government have said they are willing to discuss that. we need to pursue that very quickly with them.- that. we need to pursue that very quickly with them. does it have to go _ very quickly with them. does it have to go through _ very quickly with them. does it i have to go through government? i think one of the problems with the fire services at the government washed its hand of the fire service 20 years ago and handed it over to what they call the sector, chief fire officers and it was a very people who are now criticised in this report. government has to have a role in assisting setting up standards of what is

expected of the fire service and then providing the necessary resources so that the fire service can do the job it is expected to do. there is a clear obligation on people in senior positions in the fire service to challenge the necessary, and i think frankly for 15 years, chief fire officers have completely changed to challenge —— failed to challenge over many issues. finally, briefly, i hearwhat you are saying about challenges and funding and resources but ultimately it is about the management actually saying to firefighters, this is what you need to prepare for and let's train you to do it.— train you to do it. yes but they need _ train you to do it. yes but they need to _ train you to do it. yes but they need to decide - train you to do it. yes but they need to decide what| train you to do it. yes but - they need to decide what other policies under which they are going to train people. it is not simply training people, need to decide what the policies by which we evacuate. and i do need to say this, the government was asked under phase one to give advice on evacuation from high—rise buildings. that advice which was issued earlier this year, is ridiculous, it is less than

useless. it's of no value to firefighters in dealing with a practical evacuation of a fire in the event of a fire. the government has completely failed on that front as well. thank you very much for your time today. i appreciate that. the london fire brigade, one of the organisations looked at the end of this inquiry reporting earlier today, end of this inquiry reporting earliertoday, part end of this inquiry reporting earlier today, part two of the grand —— grenfell public inquiry. also the tenant management organisation which ran social housing for the council. the inquiry said that grenfell �*s refit was poorly managed by contractors and by the tenant management organisation and said there was a breakdown of trust in relations between the tenant

management organisation and the residence which led to, in the words of the inquiry, a serious failure to observe responsibilities and talked about persistent indifference being shown to fire safety and the needs of vulnerable residents. and here, of course, we look again to the top of the tower, just behind where i am standing. you will have seen images of this no doubt before. you may drive faster on a regular basis, the greenheart worn on a badge by the bereaved families and survivors by those so closely associated with the grenfell community. forever in our hearts is the familiar signed there behind us. i am join now by... eddie nestorfrom bbc london

he was here on this fateful night back injune 2017. he has spoken to many people who were affected. tell me your thoughts on the inquiry in the context of what you know about this building and the people who lived in it. i building and the people who lived in it.— lived in it. i have 'ust done forhoursh lived in it. i have 'ust done for hours of _ lived in it. i havejust done for hours of broadcasting l for hours of broadcasting listening to the report and from just around the corner with the people, relatives of people who were affected. and i have got to say, they were devastated. but happy that what they thought in terms of corporate greed has now been confirmed. that there was malpractice, there was lying and they are just waiting to find out what happens now. when i got here the next day and we broadcast our programme, the smoke was still coming from that building. when i got here there was no council people, no help, advice and guidance.

there were people sitting on the pavement waiting for their relatives to come out. they had been looking at facebook and people waving flags. this is a real trauma. when we got there, the only people on the ground were muslim aid, they were on the ground and giving people water and today we heard that the royal borough of chelsea and kensington were ill—prepared to deal with it. it took them two days to call for help and it was obvious to people that they couldn't manage. and i think we have to think, certainly from the people i speak into today, we have to think about where the race, religion and perhaps class played a part in this. this is mentioned by keir starmer in the house of commons today. i starmer in the house of commons toda . ~' starmer in the house of commons toda . ~ , , today. i think so. this is social housing _ today. i think so. this is social housing so - today. i think so. this is social housing so do - today. i think so. this is| social housing so do they deserve the same as everyone else? they were given an opportunity to pick a colour for the cladding that went around the building. nevertheless, it was still put on the building even though it

was the evacuation that people are happy about. it seems obvious, if you are disabled and you live in a block of flats, there should be a plan to get you out, surely. and we have been talking about this today. you mentioned obviously that some of the people, some of the bereaved families wanted a police investigation to come first, they didn't want this inquiry to come first. some are glad that their belief right from the word go has been vindicated ijy the word go has been vindicated by this inquiry. in a the word go has been vindicated by this inquiry-— by this inquiry. in a way. the only person _ by this inquiry. in a way. the only person who _ by this inquiry. in a way. the only person who has - by this inquiry. in a way. the only person who has lost - by this inquiry. in a way. the | only person who has lost their job in the whole of this, it one person from the fire brigade. i think there is a difference between the overarching responsibility of the fire braid and what they do and individualfirefighters the fire braid and what they do and individual firefighters who time and time again put their lives at risk. when you have come to grenfell as often as i

have any of talk to 70 people, it's difficult. when i went on the silent walk and you come on this road and you see the pain and love from the firefighters and love from the firefighters and how deeply people were traumatised and affected. i don't think people hold individual firefighters to account... individual firefighters to account. . ._ individual firefighters to account... , ., account... absolutely. i agree with you- _ account... absolutely. i agree with you. from _ account... absolutely. i agree with you. from everything - account... absolutely. i agree with you. from everything i i with you. from everything i have heard, it's not about the firefighters were in there who were pulling off their masks so other people could breathe they were working in pitch black in the smoke and feeling their way to try and pull people out. i don't think anyone feels ill will towards them.- don't think anyone feels ill will towards them. but, for the . race will towards them. but, for the race of will towards them. but, for the grace of god. _ will towards them. but, for the grace of god, we _ will towards them. but, for the grace of god, we would - will towards them. but, for the grace of god, we would have i will towards them. but, for the l grace of god, we would have had another tragedy just a week ago in dagenham there was a fire. people leaving their home in darkness, alarm is not going off, gates locked and it was the implementation from phase one that meant that the london fire brigade could react. let's not forget we have got 1300

dangerous buildings in london, may be 4000 nationwide. the real test, as far as i can tell from people i've spoken to today, the real test is now that we know it, what do about it? do we still put profit over people? or does somebody say, we have to create a system that puts lives first. the test will be in what we see from here on out. , ., , out. grand grenfell united said to me earlier— out. grand grenfell united said to me earlier that _ out. grand grenfell united said to me earlier that we - out. grand grenfell united said to me earlier that we have - out. grand grenfell united said| to me earlier that we have been patient from the police but now we want the police to move as quickly as possible. we we want the police to move as quickly as possible.— quickly as possible. we have not a 'ob quickly as possible. we have got a job in _ quickly as possible. we have got a job in the _ quickly as possible. we have got a job in the media - quickly as possible. we have got a job in the media to - quickly as possible. we have got a job in the media to do| quickly as possible. we have l got a job in the media to do as well. 27,000 pieces of evidence they had. they are going to have to look at the report to see what they get from the report, which i don't know anyone who is completely right because it is thousands of pages and they are going to have to do it. if you think about our conic, they subsidised 13 different organisations subcontracted to deal with it. it is very

complicated i think we have a job to do to say to people, this was the inquiry, there is a police investigation which is different to that and that is going to take time and the police have said that it won't be the back end of 2026 before any kind of criminality is open. i any kind of criminality is 0 en. . any kind of criminality is o den. ., ., ., " any kind of criminality is oen. ., ., any kind of criminality is oven. ., ., l, open. i am looking at your badie open. i am looking at your badge as _ open. i am looking at your badge as well. _ open. i am looking at your badge as well. my - open. i am looking at your badge as well. my badge i open. i am looking at your. badge as well. my badge was liven to badge as well. my badge was given to me _ badge as well. my badge was given to me in _ badge as well. my badge was given to me in 2017 _ badge as well. my badge was given to me in 2017 and - badge as well. my badge was given to me in 2017 and the l given to me in 2017 and the latter end of that year when they decided that green would be the colour and i have kept it. hopefully there will be one day when those people get justice. i am day when those people get justice. iam not day when those people get justice. i am not quite sure thatjustice means the same to everybody but whatever justice looks like, it will hopefully save lives. the firefighters, some of the trauma that i've had to witness. it interesting that comment, _ had to witness. it interesting that comment, justice - had to witness. it interesting that comment, justice might | had to witness. it interesting - that comment, justice might not be the same thing for everyone. there is no justice, be the same thing for everyone. there is nojustice, just be the same thing for everyone. there is no justice, just as was on a wall as i came up it today. we are in the shadow of the grenfell tower and, you

know, for the 72 people, the