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tv   BBC News  BBC News  September 5, 2024 11:00am-11:31am BST

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the survivors and bereaved families from the grenfell tower disaster who say they're still waiting for justice, after a damning report into the deaths of 72 people. at the end, seven years have passed, and we still have no justice. we have to fight again. i don't how many years it will take. the deputy prime minister and housing secretary — angela rayner, tells the bbc the work to fix unsafe buildings must be sped up. it is completely unacceptable that the mediation is taking as long as it is. and that is what i want to see concluded much more swiftly. police say they will follow the evidence that the charges won't be made until 2026.
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i'm lauren taylor. today's other stories... the ugandan marathon runner, rebecca cheptegei, has died four days after being set on fire in an alleged attack by herformer boyfriend. welcome back to the position we are talking from very close to gren fell in itself. a day after the publication of that second and final part of the public inquiry yesterday, poring over the details of that, considering what the impact of the recommendations from the public inquiry will be. survivors and relatives of those who died as a result of the grenfell tower disaster say they're still waiting forjustice, after a damning report set out a catalogue of failures. the six—year public inquiry�*s
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final report laid the blame on successive governments, "systematic dishonesty" from cladding companies and the "indifference" of the local council. our correspondent ellie price has more. they may not have come to terms with their loss, but they have, finally, got some answers. we didn't have the right treatment. we were discriminated. to some, it gives answers and to some it doesn't do anything except it's put that extra nail in the coffin, as they say. at the end, seven years have passed and we still have - no justice and we have to fight again. - i don't know how manyl years it's going to take. the memory of that night still dominates this community. residents who were victims of, at best, incompetence, at worst, calculated dishonesty and greed, the report said. lives that didn't need to be lost.
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the simple truth is that the deaths that occurred were all avoidable, and those who lived in the tower were badly failed over a number of years and in a number of different ways by those who were responsible for ensuring the safety of the building and its occupants. the prime minister visited grenfell tower two weeks ago. he's vowed to take swift action. there will be a debate on the floor of this house. we will respond in full to the inquiry�*s recommendations within six months and we will update parliament annually on our progress against every commitment that we make. but there are some things i can say right now. there are still buildings today with unsafe cladding, and the speed at which this is being addressed is far, far too slow. the fire here was a result of dishonest companies, failures by successive
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governments, and a lack of strategy by the fire service. the council, which was responsible for the tower, has apologised for failing to protect residents before the fire and to look after them in the aftermath. has enough changed? no, i don't think enough has changed. i think we need to continue. so for an easy reply, i could say, well, all the recommendations in the first part of the report, you know, we've put them in, we've changed our resilience team, we've changed the way we organise ourselves, we've changed how we behave with our residents. we are held to account by our residents. but is that enough if you've lost a child, is that enough? no, i don't think so. police say they need until the end of next year to finish their investigation into what happened here, which means no criminal prosecutions will be brought until the end of 2026
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at the earliest. but for families who lost loved ones here, they've waited six years to see in black and white who was to blame for their deaths. their wait for justice continues. ellie price, bbc news, at grenfell tower. you may know that in the wake of grand fail, people affected by the disaster mobilised into community groups to try to seek justice. one of those groups is called next—of—kin. let's speak to kimia zabihyan who is an advocate for grenfell next of kin group. i wonder what your thoughts are today, your broad thoughts on what we had from the inquiry yesterday?— what we had from the inquiry esterda ? ., ~ ., ., yesterday? thank you for having us. i am yesterday? thank you for having
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us- i am an _ yesterday? thank you for having us. i am an advocate _ yesterday? thank you for having us. i am an advocate as - yesterday? thank you for having us. i am an advocate as you - us. i am an advocate as you mentioned. the immediate family members of over half the people that died in the fire, these are the mums and dads, brothers and sisters, children and spouses. we have been talking to each other about all of this collectively over the last few weeks. of course, none of it is really a surprise. anyone listening to the inquiry as the evidence was being heard over the last few years, would have heard all of these terrible jaw—dropping revelations. unfortunately jaw—dropping revelations. u nfortu nately for jaw—dropping revelations. unfortunately for the families of the deceased, it has been a double—edged sword. of the deceased, it has been a double-edged sword.- of the deceased, it has been a double-edged sword. what do you mean by that? _ double-edged sword. what do you mean by that? on _ double-edged sword. what do you mean by that? on one _ double-edged sword. what do you mean by that? on one hand, - double-edged sword. what do you mean by that? on one hand, it - mean by that? on one hand, it is ureat mean by that? on one hand, it is great to _ mean by that? on one hand, it is great to have _ mean by that? on one hand, it is great to have this _ mean by that? on one hand, it is great to have this work - mean by that? on one hand, it is great to have this work done j is great to have this work done and to listen to it and have it there in black and white, have someone as eminent as... not to mince his words and really call it out. it is really gratifying. but from the point
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of view of people who have lost actual loved ones, actual kin, babies, children and parents. grandparents... the worry itself has been an obstacle to the prosecutions. it has delayed prosecutions and it has denied them the justice. ijust got off the phone before coming on with... who was on this morning, we were talking about her interview and so on, and we said tojust make her interview and so on, and we said to just make sure you let everyone know, their main focus for us isjustice. and that means prosecutions. not prosecutions of health and safety charges, and, you know, misconduct in public office and that sort of thing, criminal prosecutions, manslaughter charges for the appropriate people. and had the inquiry not
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taken place first, and the prosecutions had happened first, all of that would have happened and there would be some sort of closure. unfortunately, the immediate family members were unaware of the impact of the inquiry, what it would have on their pursuit ofjustice. it was announced the morning after the fire, when officially the fire brigade had not even announced that the tower, the fire was under control. you know, it was a kneejerk reaction. but it has had a massive and packed on their right —— impact on their right tojustice. their right -- impact on their right to justice.— their right -- impact on their right to justice. some bereaved relatives i _ right to justice. some bereaved relatives i spoke _ right to justice. some bereaved relatives i spoke to _ right to justice. some bereaved relatives i spoke to yesterday l relatives i spoke to yesterday said the inquiry had been incredibly forensic and that they had extended that patients to the police. they now want the police to move as quickly as possible. do you think that's possibly what the inquiry, the work the inquiry has done, or the people you represent, the families, do
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they think they work the inquiry has done may help that police investigation? or are they holy of the mind that this delay is going to affect their chances of getting the justice they want? chances of getting the 'ustice they wannfi chances of getting the 'ustice they wehtafi chances of getting the 'ustice they want? look, it is hard to stomach _ they want? look, it is hard to stomach what _ they want? look, it is hard to stomach what i'm _ they want? look, it is hard to stomach what i'm about - they want? look, it is hard to stomach what i'm about to i they want? look, it is hard to i stomach what i'm about to say. i don't want it to be taken the wrong way, but the bottom line is, when someone is killed, the police do their investigation, prevents that investigation to the cps, the cps make charging decisions based on the evidence. the majority of the evidence. the majority of the evidence used in the inquiry actually came from the police and the police investigation. it wasn't done, you know, actually the source of it, is the police and the police investigation in the first place. the police had enough material to be able to go to cps with charging files and proceed to prosecutions, which is the normal way that things are done. inquiries, after criminal prosecutions. we have had meetings with police and
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the cps where they have confirmed themselves that this was very unusual and never in their experience had an inquiry been done, you know, where there were two parallel investigations and inquiry went first. i realise this is counterintuitive because everyone is quite rightly praising the work of... and the inquiry team. this, i hope, is not taken the wrong way as discourteous, but the point is that if you have lost children, parents or your entire family, the only thing that matters is justice. and thatjustice was delayed and denied as a result of the inquiry going first. which was unusual, unprecedented and certainly untimely went it was announced the morning after. when we asked about... the morning after. when we asked about. . ._ asked about... sorry to interrupt. _ asked about. .. sorry to interrupt, i— asked about... sorry to interrupt, i want - asked about... sorry to interrupt, i want to - asked about... sorry to interrupt, i want to askj asked about... sorry to - interrupt, i want to ask you on that point, lots of people yesterday said to me, justice
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delayed isjustice denied. i think this is an important question, what is the group going to do to make sure that, although justice going to do to make sure that, althoughjustice has going to do to make sure that, although justice has been delayed for them, that it won't ultimately be denied? taking into account their concerns that that delay may have an impact on the course of justice. it impact on the course of justice-— impact on the course of 'ustice. , ., , ., justice. it is not 'ust that the detey h justice. it is not 'ust that the delay has _ justice. it is notjust that the delay has had - justice. it is notjust that the delay has had an - justice. it is not just that i the delay has had an impact justice. it is not just that - the delay has had an impact on the delay has had an impact on the course ofjustice, because now they will have to weight may be another three years until we see any charges, so hopefully the fact that they are making noise about it will mean that the prosecutors, cps and everyone concerned will be working overtime to make sure that they get their ducks in a row. but there is real legitimate concern from some of the advice we have had, that actually the likelihood of manslaughter prosecutions is rather pessimistic. again,
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because the potential defendants have had an opportunity to come to the inquiry and present and to practice their defence. so now the cps will have to take all of that into consideration and will it be able to meets the very high bar of... prosecutions? that remains to be seen. i think everyone is... the immediate families of the deceased, who are very, very finely tuned and engage with this, and perhaps more so than most people who might be commentating, frankly, feel very strongly that it wasn't just that it was delayed, denied, they weren't asked. they had no idea when it was going to happen or how it would impact their right to justice. they also say we should not have to be fighting for justice, we have a right to justice. it is complicated and, as i say, i don't want to be
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discourteous to the inquiry, and they certainly don't. even in the press conference yesterday, they thanked the team for their work. they were asked to do a job and they did thatjob very well. the question is, was it a political decision and a kneejerk response to an enormous challenge, to call an inquiry that gives the illusion something is happening. that was done the following day when people didn't even know who was dead or alive. someone who lost their... i was still going around from hospital to hospital looking for my mother he said. people in comas. the people at the heart of this tragedy were actually missing from the picture at that moment. in fact, from the picture at that moment. infact, most from the picture at that moment. in fact, most didn't even know that they were going to be next of kin, because nobody knew who was dead or alive. so how did the prime
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minister, to may, make that decision? what advice did she get? did she get advice to understand the impact it would have on their course to justice in the long term? which it has done. when you have the police, the met and the cps admits that this is unusual for an the met and the cps admits that this is unusualfor an inquiry to go first, and that it didn't stop them in their tracks, and now we are looking at a potential that, actually because of... because of the fact that everyone is blaming everyone else, will it even be possible for the cps to bring manslaughter charges, because you have a number of defendants and when you have a number of defendants it becomes very difficult to bring manslaughter charges against a group of people in that sense. we cannot stomach being told that three orfour stomach being told that three or four years down the line. so we are raising it now, saying that rental next of kin particularly are very aware of
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the full picture and they demand answers beyond the inquiry. they demand answers about the political decision that have put them in the space where there justice has been denied. where there 'ustice has been denied. ., , ., ., denied. really to hear those views from _ denied. really to hear those views from the _ denied. really to hear those views from the next - denied. really to hear those views from the next of - denied. really to hear those views from the next of kin . views from the next of kin group, for which you are an advocate. thank you very much for your time today.— advocate. thank you very much for your time today. thank you. a privilege _ for your time today. thank you. a privilege to — for your time today. thank you. a privilege to serve. _ ronnie is a former firefighter. thank you for your time today. i know that's when grenville happened, you said, i think they were listen now. when you said they, who were you referring to? it
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said they, who were you referring to?— referring to? it was the government _ referring to? it was the government of - referring to? it was the government of the - referring to? it was the | government of the day. following the house via, the inquest concluded in march 2013, there were some... just to explain — 2013, there were some... just to explain to _ 2013, there were some... just to explain to our _ 2013, there were some... just to explain to our viewers, that was a another fire in a tower block in london in which six people died. block in london in which six peeple died-— people died. that's right. there were _ people died. that's right. there were some - people died. that's right. there were some key - people died. that's right. - there were some key finders. there were some key finders. the commissioner who was asked at the current�*s inquest, would automatic fire protection have made a difference? if that building would have been sprinkler protected, would people have died? and building research establishment has updated its research and brought automatic fire sprinkler protection as being cost in most blocks of
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purpose—built flats. and therefore one of the key issues was these buildings, which have no fire resistance on the external rules because they changed their... to a plateau circuit fed plain with no fire resistance. they have got to be two things that you put right, correct the sprinkler protection basis in 12 blocks of flats, and the other one is to look at the external walls of those buildings and bring them back into line with the fire resistance on the external wall. there was ample evidence, umpteen fires. the late sir raymond davis was the chairman and he brought this to the attention of government on 16 occasions. writing letters, and they didn't like the answer was, we are going to review it,
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it is going to take three years, we are not bringing forward what you think our critical issues are and doing them now. they will be part of them now. they will be part of the review and we are not bringing them forward. you will wait for the review and three years. and nothing causes us to change that view. this years. and nothing causes us to change that view.— change that view. this was a teriod, change that view. this was a period. sorry. _ change that view. this was a period, sorry, ronnie, - change that view. this was a period, sorry, ronnie, i- change that view. this was a period, sorry, ronnie, iwas| period, sorry, ronnie, iwas going to say this was a period when we have the coalition government. it was a period of deregulation, wasn't it? an emphasis on getting rid of red tape. was that part of the reason why these 16 letters written over two years didn't get the priority that you wanted them to have? was it to do with the culture? i wanted them to have? was it to do with the culture?— do with the culture? i cannot answer that. _ do with the culture? i cannot answer that. i _ do with the culture? i cannot answer that. i don't - do with the culture? i cannot answer that. i don't know - do with the culture? i cannot l answer that. i don't know what it wants really. it probably was something that... we know better than you. perhaps all
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party groups were seen as lobbyists or we wanted something doing. and it was... a said, you just have to wait and be patient and we are going to go full process. we said, you already have the process, you already have the process, you have already got the evidence. it's not only occurred there, but it occurred in loads of other buildings. i collected statistics over two yea rs collected statistics over two years and there was a fortnightly parents in a 12 block of flats where the fire broke outside the compartment or someone died. every fortnight. and that's really, if we are not looking at the evidence, oryou if we are not looking at the evidence, or you don't accept it because you haven't done it, that was part of it. we didn't commission that research. one of your officers was actually a member of the steering group. you might not have commissioned
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it but you participated in it and you grouped the findings. and should be able to, on that basis, rely on it. we are almost out of time but i want to very briefly ask you, if you were to, you were quoted as saying after that fire at that house, that that should have been the game changer. do you think the fire out when fell and everything that has followed since this public inquiry, will be the fire that changes the approach to safety? it has to be. i don't think anyone who has those powers to change or not to change would in any way, the prime minister is quite clear about what he is going to do about this, and some of the things that are there that governments failed to act on, the government was well aware in 2016. government
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officials complacent and dismissive. government ignored warnings and cladding as as early as 1991. responsibility for all aspects of fire safety in one area of government. it is fragmented, it is all over the place. it used to be in home office, deputy prime minister's what local government... it really needs to be in one place. and i am pleased to see things coming out from there.— pleased to see things coming out from there. thank you very much for _ out from there. thank you very much for your— out from there. thank you very much for your thoughts - out from there. thank you very much for your thoughts today. | much for your thoughts today. ronnie, formerfirefighter and ronnie, former firefighter and adviser to the ronnie, formerfirefighter and adviser to the all parliamentary group on fire safety. we will be back at when fell for much more analysis soon on yesterday's events. and what those most closely affected by the stretch —— tragedy want to see. water company bosses could be
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banned from receiving bonuses and even jailed if they obstruct investigations under new government legislation aimed at reducing sewage spills. the bill — which will apply in england and wales ? gives regulators more powers to act and impose penalties when companies pollute. critics say that the problem hasn t been the laws ? but the willingness of the industry regulator ofwat to enforce them. the water companies want ofwat to back their £105 billion pound investment plan — which would be paid for through higher customer bills. let's take you now to south london where the enviroment secretary steve reed speaking, let's listen in. it will create new tougher penalties including imprisonment if companies obstruct environment agency and... investigations. and offences will be triable in both the trial and magistrates courts where previously the punishment in most cases was merely a fine. the environment
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agency will get new powers to recover the costs of their enforcement activity from water companies and ensure the environment agency has the resources, including staff, to take the enforcement action needed to hold polluters to accounts. the previous conservative government weakens the regulator, the regulators, by cutting their resources. this government will make the polluter pay to get that firepower back. fixed monetary policies will also be imposed by an environment agency as automatic fines, including for pollution, water resource offences and for a failure to comply with information requests and reporting requirements. we will lift the current £300 cap to reflect the scale of damage pollution is having on our waterways. since 2020, water chief executives
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have played themselves over £41 million in bonuses, benefits and incentives. despite the damage their companies have been causing. this bill will give off what new powers to ban bonuses for the executives and senior... of water companies unless they meet high standards when it comes to protecting the environment, their consumers, financial resilience and criminal liability. water executives will no longer get away with polluting our rivers, lakes and seas, and then awarding themselves a bonus. they will be held accountable. if they fail to meet these standards, companies may need to remove executives from posts or take other corrective actions. to increased back transparency, we will ensure there is independent monitoring of every single sewage outlets, including emergency overflows which are currently not fully monitored. we will require
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water companies to install real—time monitors so that public regulators have full transparency on where sewage spills are happening within an hour of them happening. companies will publish this data in a clear and accessible format, which will be interdependent he is scrutinised by regulators and used as evidence in their investigations. there will be a new statutory requirement for water companies to publish annual plans to set out the steps they are taking to address their pollution incidents, to ensure they do not keep happening. this new bill is a significant step forward in fixing our broken water systems. forward in fixing our broken watersystems. it forward in fixing our broken water systems. it is an immediate down payment on the wider reform that is needed after years of failure. it holds polluting water companies to account after years where there has been no
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accountability. but we also face a much wider set of issues. water companies need to attract the levels of private investment required to upgrade crumbling infrastructure and keep pace with population growth. keep pace with population trowth. ~ ., ., ., growth. we will have more on the story _ growth. we will have more on the story a — growth. we will have more on the story a little _ growth. we will have more on the story a little later. - growth. we will have more on the story a little later. one i the story a little later. one line of reaction from ofwat, the introduction of the water bill, they well it and they will work closely with the government to ensure smooth implementation once it has gained royal assent. a 14—year—old boy has appeared in court charged with murdering an 80—year—old man in a park near the investigation was launched after bhim kohli died from serious injuries after he was attacked while walking his dog near away from his home in braunstone town on sunday. let's speak to natasha. the
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14—year—old charged with murder. 14-year-old charged with murder-— 14-year-old charged with murder. . ,, ., murder. he appeared in court, very briefly. — murder. he appeared in court, very briefly, only _ murder. he appeared in court, very briefly, only around i murder. he appeared in court, very briefly, only around five l very briefly, only around five minutes. he only spoke to confirm his name, address and date of birth. he was then remanded in custody and is expected to appear in court at two b m. this is following the death of... when he was walking his dog in the parkjust around ten minutes from here on sunday evening when he was attacked. he was taken to a medical centre but died laterfrom he was taken to a medical centre but died later from a neck injury. it has caused a lot of shock and sadness in his local community. while i was at the park earlier today, many people still arriving to leave flowers and tributes to him. messages of support for his family. his family have,
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yesterday, put out a moving tribute to him, describing him as a very loving father, grandfather and husband. they say he was very passionate about his local allotment. this is where he used to go regularly. now, the leicestershire police have referred themselves to the independent office for police conduct. that is because they did have prior connection with the victor before this incident occurred. today, all eyes will be on crown court this afternoon where the 14—year—old is expect to appear. afternoon where the 14-year-old is expect to appear.— is expect to appear. thank you very much- — is expect to appear. thank you very much. you _ is expect to appear. thank you very much. you are _ is expect to appear. thank you very much. you are watching l is expect to appear. thank you i very much. you are watching bbc news. do stay with us.
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steal deal cools downjoe biden is close to blocking the japanese takeover of us steel according to reports, potentially putting thousands of us jobs at risk. also on the programme we'll have a special report from bangladesh, on how the country's bustling textile sector is navigating political turmoil. welcome to business today. russia's growing friendship" with china is on display again with russian leader vladimir putin meeting china's vice president han zheng, at the eastern economic forum in vladivostock. russia has turned to china to plug the gap in trade after western sanctions blocked it from traditional european
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suppliers following its full scale invasion of ukraine in 2022.

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