pembroke, who is visually twice. pembroke, who is visually impaired, retained his title in quite sensational fashion. another logic defying display on a day of so many. another impressive day for the british team. i can also tell you the wimbledon champion alfie hewett is safely through to the final of the wheelchair tennis singles. he will be playing in the final of the doubles alongside his playing partner gordon reid. but as things stand, great britain have 36 gold medals, they are second in the medals, they are second in the medals table behind china and there is still three days of competition left. time for a look at the weather. this programme continues on bbc 1.

the new pm sets out big reforms to energy, water and the lords, but is the lesson of his predecessors that he needs more vision and hope and less pain? and as this generation of students prepare to head off to university, will some find their college has gone bust before they even get there?

good evening. welcome to newsnight — insight, interviews and more into the stories of the day. later, the crisis in our universities, with calls for a massive rise in tuition fees as students head back to campus. but before that, a scholarly panel of prime ministerial biographer sir anthony seldon, former tory mp and mep vicky ford and baroness helena kennedy kc will consider where we are with the new government and pm two months on from the election, with a blizzard of legislation but a certain lack of post—landslide euphoria and promises of a couple of months at least of pain. let's bring in our own professor of politics, nick watt. an important day for the pm?

removing said, gb energy and removing hereditary peers. there was a general feeling the prime minister had a very, very quick start in the first month, and then in august, used his experience to very good effect as the former head of the cps in response to the riots, but now, question marks about whether is he hitting a bumpy patch? now, william hague, who knows all about bumpy patches, and his times were times column this week, brought up some interesting polling, which we can look at in a minute, from the more in common polling group, which is that keir starmer�*s approval rating is -16%, that keir starmer�*s approval rating is —i6%, and at the time of the election, it was plus 5%. and if you look at the different polls from others, tony blair at the same stage in 1997 was at plus 65, david cameron at the same stage in 2010, plus 31. it is important to say, at the time

of the general election, very different circumstances. those two leaders had much higher net favourability ratings at the time of the general election. that is pretty exciting straightaway. two month ago, second biggest majority since the second world war, it doesn't really feel like that may be right now? no, and this is the real challenge, isn't it? _ no, and this is the real challenge, isn't it? i— no, and this is the real challenge, isn't it? i agree with nick, it has been _ isn't it? i agree with nick, it has been a _ isn't it? i agree with nick, it has been a good start, and now we need to have _ been a good start, and now we need to have reel— been a good start, and now we need to have real leadership and a clear sense _ to have real leadership and a clear sense of— to have real leadership and a clear sense of direction, and all the successful prime ministers have been -ood successful prime ministers have been good storytellers. they have said, this is_ good storytellers. they have said, this is where we were, this is where we are _ this is where we were, this is where we are going — this is where we were, this is where we are going to be going, and this is how— we are going to be going, and this is how we — we are going to be going, and this is how we will get there, and they have _ is how we will get there, and they have had — is how we will get there, and they have had optimism in that, and a sense _ have had optimism in that, and a sense that — have had optimism in that, and a sense that we are all in it together and you _ sense that we are all in it together and you have got to be on the bus. but we're — and you have got to be on the bus. but we're not quite getting that, and the — but we're not quite getting that, and the parliamentary crisis next week— and the parliamentary crisis next week is— and the parliamentary crisis next week is going to be illustrative that, _ week is going to be illustrative that, and — week is going to be illustrative that, and has he picked the right

battleground? successful leaders battleground ? successful leaders pick the _ battleground? successful leaders pick the right battleground. but he is not _ pick the right battleground. but he is not charismatic like harold wilson. — is not charismatic like harold wilson, no like tony blair. —— nor like _ wilson, no like tony blair. —— nor tike tony— wilson, no like tony blair. —— nor like tony blair. he is more like labour's— like tony blair. he is more like labour's most successful prime minister— labour's most successful prime minister clement attlee, studious. he would _ minister clement attlee, studious. he would probably settle for that! but we will come in to historical comparisons in a moment. clement attlee did not start that way either, by the way! the _ way either, by the way! the honeymoon appears to be over before it has even started, helena? i don't think we were ever talking about honeymoons, given the state of the nation at the point where the election took place, and people were generally feeling that they had had enough, and you have got to remember that almost every single institution in this country is on its knees, from the nhs to schools to universities to local authorities to the justice system, which universities to local authorities to thejustice system, which i can speak about, but everything is actually groaning with the pain of what it has gone through over recent

years, and every one of them is in financial crisis and every one of them is hungry for resource, and there is no resource, so he has inherited something pretty bloody, and i think he knows that. i think a lot of people felt they wanted honesty and let's see whether honesty and let's see whether honesty is what they really wanted, because he is a man of integrity. i mean, i know him well and because he is a man of integrity. i mean, i know him welland i because he is a man of integrity. i mean, i know him well and i know, because he is a man of integrity. i mean, i know him welland i know, of course, he is talking it straight in saying this is going to be painful and warning of a body about the budget, but i think you are talking about decency, and he is wanting to win back trust in the whole business of governance will stop —— warning everybody about the budget. so i do think it will be hard, but making those choices about what you run with will be a difficult business. but we are talking about someone who wants to show he is telling the truth about the situation. vicky, if there is a lack of honeymoon, that is maybe because of the riots, an extraordinary set of

circumstances, and the inheritance from your party? yes, clearly, we had lost trust of people. — yes, clearly, we had lost trust of pe0ple. and _ yes, clearly, we had lost trust of people, and that's _ yes, clearly, we had lost trust of people, and that's why— yes, clearly, we had lost trust of people, and that's why we - yes, clearly, we had lost trust of people, and that's why we lost . yes, clearly, we had lost trust of. people, and that's why we lost the election. _ people, and that's why we lost the election. and — people, and that's why we lost the election, and that _ people, and that's why we lost the election, and that trust _ people, and that's why we lost the election, and that trust is - people, and that's why we lost the election, and that trust is really. election, and that trust is really important. _ election, and that trust is really important. and _ election, and that trust is really important, and i— election, and that trust is really important, and i hope - election, and that trust is really important, and i hope that- election, and that trust is really important, and i hope that he . election, and that trust is really. important, and i hope that he can -et important, and i hope that he can get that— important, and i hope that he can get that and — important, and i hope that he can get that and bring _ important, and i hope that he can get that and bring stability. - important, and i hope that he can get that and bring stability. but . important, and i hope that he can get that and bring stability. but if| get that and bring stability. but if he is _ get that and bring stability. but if he is on _ get that and bring stability. but if he is on one _ get that and bring stability. but if he is on one hand _ get that and bring stability. but if he is on one hand saying, - get that and bring stability. but if he is on one hand saying, we - get that and bring stability. but if. he is on one hand saying, we don't have _ he is on one hand saying, we don't have any— he is on one hand saying, we don't have any money— he is on one hand saying, we don't have any money and _ he is on one hand saying, we don't have any money and we _ he is on one hand saying, we don't have any money and we need - he is on one hand saying, we don't have any money and we need to i he is on one hand saying, we don't. have any money and we need to care for those _ have any money and we need to care for those who — have any money and we need to care for those who are _ have any money and we need to care for those who are less _ have any money and we need to care for those who are less well— have any money and we need to care for those who are less well off, - for those who are less well off, then— for those who are less well off, then he — for those who are less well off, then he has— for those who are less well off, then he has made _ for those who are less well off, then he has made a _ for those who are less well off, then he has made a danger- for those who are less well off, then he has made a clanger ofl for those who are less well off, i then he has made a clanger of a mistake. — then he has made a clanger of a mistake. ini— then he has made a clanger of a mistake, i'm afraid, _ then he has made a clanger of a mistake, i'm afraid, by- then he has made a clanger of a mistake, i'm afraid, by giving i then he has made a clanger of a mistake, i'm afraid, by giving a| mistake, i'm afraid, by giving a very— mistake, i'm afraid, by giving a verylarge— mistake, i'm afraid, by giving a very large pay— mistake, i'm afraid, by giving a very large pay deal— mistake, i'm afraid, by giving a very large pay deal to - mistake, i'm afraid, by giving ai very large pay deal to especially train _ very large pay deal to especially train drivers, _ very large pay deal to especially train drivers, who _ very large pay deal to especially train drivers, who a _ very large pay deal to especially train drivers, who a lot- very large pay deal to especially train drivers, who a lot of- very large pay deal to especiallyl train drivers, who a lot of people say they— train drivers, who a lot of people say they are _ train drivers, who a lot of people say they are very _ train drivers, who a lot of people say they are very well _ train drivers, who a lot of people say they are very well off - train drivers, who a lot of people | say they are very well off already, well paid — say they are very well off already, well paid comparatively, - say they are very well off already, well paid comparatively, and - say they are very well off already, i well paid comparatively, and taking that money— well paid comparatively, and taking that money away— well paid comparatively, and taking that money away from _ well paid comparatively, and taking that money away from pensioners. i well paid comparatively, and taking. that money away from pensioners. the pensioners— that money away from pensioners. the pensioners i_ that money away from pensioners. the pensioners l have — that money away from pensioners. the pensioners i have met— that money away from pensioners. the pensioners i have met who _ that money away from pensioners. the pensioners i have met who are - that money away from pensioners. the pensioners i have met who are just - pensioners i have met who are just above _ pensioners i have met who are just above that— pensioners i have met who are just above that 12 — pensioners i have met who are just above that 12 £12,500 _ pensioners i have met who are just above that 12 £12,500 is _ pensioners i have met who are just above that 12 £12,500 is tiny. - pensioners i have met who are just above that 12 £12,500 is tiny. 011 l above that 12 £12,500 is tiny. on one hand — above that 12 £12,500 is tiny. on one hand you _ above that 12 £12,500 is tiny. on one hand you are _ above that 12 £12,500 is tiny. on one hand you are saying, - above that 12 £12,500 is tiny. on one hand you are saying, there l above that 12 £12,500 is tiny. 0n| one hand you are saying, there is above that 12 £12,500 is tiny. 0n - one hand you are saying, there is no nroney, _ one hand you are saying, there is no nroney, we — one hand you are saying, there is no nroney, we must _ one hand you are saying, there is no nroney, we must cut— one hand you are saying, there is no money, we must cut the _ one hand you are saying, there is no money, we must cut the winter- one hand you are saying, there is no money, we must cut the winter fuell money, we must cut the winter fuel allowance _ money, we must cut the winter fuel allowance at — money, we must cut the winter fuel allowance at a — money, we must cut the winter fuel allowance at a time _ money, we must cut the winter fuel allowance at a time when _ money, we must cut the winter fuel allowance at a time when heating. allowance at a time when heating prices _ allowance at a time when heating prices are — allowance at a time when heating prices are going _ allowance at a time when heating prices are going up. _ allowance at a time when heating prices are going up, and - allowance at a time when heating prices are going up, and on - allowance at a time when heating prices are going up, and on the l prices are going up, and on the other, — prices are going up, and on the other, you _ prices are going up, and on the other. you are _ prices are going up, and on the other, you are saying, - prices are going up, and on the other, you are saying, it- prices are going up, and on the other, you are saying, it is- prices are going up, and on the other, you are saying, it is ok, j prices are going up, and on thel other, you are saying, it is ok, i can pay— other, you are saying, it is ok, i can pay the _ other, you are saying, it is ok, i can pay the train— other, you are saying, it is ok, i can pay the train drivers. - other, you are saying, it is ok, i can pay the train drivers. it-

other, you are saying, it is ok, i can pay the train drivers. itjustl can pay the train drivers. itjust doesn't — can pay the train drivers. itjust doesn't add _ can pay the train drivers. itjust doesn't add up. _ can pay the train drivers. itjust doesn't add up, and _ can pay the train drivers. itjust doesn't add up, and so, - can pay the train drivers. itjust doesn't add up, and so, i'm - can pay the train drivers. itjust i doesn't add up, and so, i'm sorry, that's— doesn't add up, and so, i'm sorry, that'si'ust — doesn't add up, and so, i'm sorry, that'si'ust how— doesn't add up, and so, i'm sorry, that's just how i_ doesn't add up, and so, i'm sorry, that'sjust how i see _ doesn't add up, and so, i'm sorry, that'sjust how i see that. - that'sjust how i see that. before _ that'sjust how i see that. before you _ that'sjust how i see that. before you get _ that'sjust how i see that. before you get your- that'sjust how i see that. - before you get your response in, i think nick has got the latest on this ahead of some votes we will get next week? yes, we may get two votes next week and the chancellor's decision to withdraw the winter fuel allowance for pensioners not in receipt of pension credit, which basically means, if you have an income over £12,600 and you are a pensioner, you will not get the winter fuel allowance. it looks like we might have a rebellion. so what we have? neil duncanjordan, brand—new labour mp, has put down an early day motion calling for this to be postponed, which has attracted ten labour mps are signing it, plus another five independent labour mps, the ones who lost the whip. last week, we had rachel maskell, a potential labour rebel and newsnight. rachel maskell, a potential labour rebeland newsnight. in rachel maskell, a potential labour rebel and newsnight. in the last three minutes, she has had a piece up three minutes, she has had a piece up on the front of the daily telegraph, saying that she fears if we withdraw winter fuel payment for those in poverty, it will lead to excess deaths, and she has talked about how at low temperatures for

elderly people, you have a danger in the increase of strokes, heart attacks and pneumonia. but i wonder whether the danger to sir keir starmer is not so much a rebellion but a large number of loyal labour mps really unhappy about this and having to vote for it. it was interesting, when rishi sunak said the point vicky has just been saying at prime minister's questions, the labour benches were pretty quiet, and i spoke to one former labour frontbencher who is a complete loyalist, and this person told me that rishi sunak�*s case was unanswerable. i was speaking to a former treasury minister, and they are saying this whole thing has been completely inept. they are saying withdrawing winter fuel allowance is always on the treasury hit list of what you should get rid of, and the chancellor's person said had caved. but from your studies of prime ministerial... their chancellor is'

could ability, there is no way rachel reeves can delay this, having made such a big deal about this being the toughest decision in years? yes, but a u—turn years? yes, buta u—turn might years? yes, but a u—turn might be inevitable _ yes, but a u—turn might be inevitable at some point, because you could — inevitable at some point, because you could win a pyrrhic victory, and then— you could win a pyrrhic victory, and then it _ you could win a pyrrhic victory, and then it is _ you could win a pyrrhic victory, and then it is going to make keeping the party together even harder. so it looks _ party together even harder. so it looks like — party together even harder. so it looks like this is probably a mistake. _ looks like this is probably a mistake, an act of bravado. i agree with nick — mistake, an act of bravado. i agree with nick. this is absolutely what treasury — with nick. this is absolutely what treasury officials will be saying. you have — treasury officials will be saying. you have to show that you mean it. the figures — you have to show that you mean it. the figures are really bad. but it goes _ the figures are really bad. but it does much — the figures are really bad. but it goes much bigger than that. we have had a _ goes much bigger than that. we have had a crisis _ goes much bigger than that. we have had a crisis in leadership. i agree with vicky— had a crisis in leadership. i agree with vicky that it wasn't a trustful. _ with vicky that it wasn't a trustful, happy period of conservative government. indeed, it was, conservative government. indeed, it was. i_ conservative government. indeed, it was. i have— conservative government. indeed, it was, i have argued in a book, the worst— was, i have argued in a book, the worst period _ was, i have argued in a book, the worst period of conservative government since the party was founded — government since the party was founded. as helena said, where do you look— founded. as helena said, where do you look to — founded. as helena said, where do you look to for success but in

education. _ you look to for success but in education, a bit here and there... but it— education, a bit here and there... but it is— education, a bit here and there... but it is bigger than the prime ministers _ but it is bigger than the prime ministers. the global financial crisis. — ministers. the global financial crisis, brexit, coupled with covid, coupled _ crisis, brexit, coupled with covid, coupled with the ukraine invasion. the intellectual capability of the prime _ the intellectual capability of the prime minister's was simply not up to dealing — prime minister's was simply not up to dealing with it. —— of the prime ministers — ministers. then if you slash the civil ministers. — then if you slash the civil service, as they— then if you slash the civil service, as they did, — then if you slash the civil service, as they did, i think we need to have as they did, i think we need to have a prime _ as they did, i think we need to have a prime minister now who does restore — a prime minister now who does restore trust, who can show that they— restore trust, who can show that they can — restore trust, who can show that they can do _ restore trust, who can show that they can do the public finances but in the _ they can do the public finances but in the right— they can do the public finances but in the right way. but _ in the right way. but helena, i must let you back in, because we are left in a situation where you are sort of defending this cut and vicky is... ?_ cut and vicky is... ? listen, what are ou cut and vicky is... ? listen, what are you doing _ cut and vicky is... ? listen, what are you doing when _ cut and vicky is... ? listen, what are you doing when you - cut and vicky is... ? listen, what are you doing when you have - cut and vicky is... ? listen, what are you doing when you have the| are you doing when you have the levels of child poverty as high as they are, and you are having to deal with something which is a universal thing, being given to everybody, so you look around the house of lords and though they are all getting their £300 as well, and there aren't any of them who are living in

poverty. and so the problem about this is that it will hit people, and there will be, i'm sure, people who will suffer the consequences of it, but if you are going to be in that position, which is the rachel reeves and keir starmer position, where you are having to say, we are going to have to make incredibly tough decisions, that is what leadership is sometimes going to be about, then i think they are going to be forced time and time again into very difficult decisions. but let me tell you, having a big majority presents to you the discipline of the party becoming very much harder, and you know that and have seen that. there will be more rebellion, because it is quite hard to discipline a party that has won with such a large majority, and so many of them are new, and new to this. they think it is like a debating society. they don't realise that... it is interesting that the consensus here seems to be that they will not be a u—turn. i don't think there will be.

they will not be a delay, and there may be some other method to support pensioner incomes with the state pension, something like that. there definitely will be. but don't underestimate how difficult — but don't underestimate how difficult this _ but don't underestimate how difficult this is _ but don't underestimate how difficult this is going - but don't underestimate how difficult this is going to - but don't underestimate how difficult this is going to be i but don't underestimate h0w| difficult this is going to be for some — difficult this is going to be for some of— difficult this is going to be for some of those _ difficult this is going to be for some of those pensioners - difficult this is going to be forl some of those pensioners who difficult this is going to be for- some of those pensioners who are still on _ some of those pensioners who are still on very— some of those pensioners who are still on very low— some of those pensioners who are still on very low income. - some of those pensioners who are still on very low income. i - some of those pensioners who are still on very low income. i sat- some of those pensioners who are still on very low income. i sat on. still on very low income. i sat on the energy— still on very low income. i sat on the energy security _ still on very low income. i sat on the energy security select - still on very low income. i sat on- the energy security select committee all last— the energy security select committee all last year. — the energy security select committee all last year, listening _ the energy security select committee all last year, listening to _ the energy security select committee all last year, listening to stories - all last year, listening to stories about— all last year, listening to stories about fuel— all last year, listening to stories about fuel poverty— all last year, listening to stories about fuel poverty and - all last year, listening to stories about fuel poverty and how - all last year, listening to stories about fuel poverty and how it i all last year, listening to stories about fuel poverty and how it is| about fuel poverty and how it is linked — about fuel poverty and how it is linked to— about fuel poverty and how it is linked to all— about fuel poverty and how it is linked to all sorts _ about fuel poverty and how it is linked to all sorts of _ about fuel poverty and how it is linked to all sorts of crisis, - about fuel poverty and how it is linked to all sorts of crisis, and | linked to all sorts of crisis, and the timing _ linked to all sorts of crisis, and the timing of— linked to all sorts of crisis, and the timing of this, _ linked to all sorts of crisis, and the timing of this, as _ linked to all sorts of crisis, and the timing of this, as you - linked to all sorts of crisis, and the timing of this, as you are l linked to all sorts of crisis, and - the timing of this, as you are going into the _ the timing of this, as you are going into the winter, _ the timing of this, as you are going into the winter, as _ the timing of this, as you are going into the winter, as fuel— the timing of this, as you are going into the winter, as fuel bills - the timing of this, as you are going into the winter, as fuel bills are - into the winter, as fuel bills are going _ into the winter, as fuel bills are going away. _ into the winter, as fuel bills are going away. after— into the winter, as fuel bills are going away, after all— into the winter, as fuel bills are going away, after all the - into the winter, as fuel bills arel going away, after all the support that was— going away, after all the support that was given _ going away, after all the support that was given for _ going away, after all the support that was given for the _ going away, after all the support that was given for the past - going away, after all the support that was given for the past two l that was given for the past two years— that was given for the past two years is— that was given for the past two years is being _ that was given for the past two years is being taken _ that was given for the past two years is being taken away, - that was given for the past two years is being taken away, it. that was given for the past two years is being taken away, it isj years is being taken away, it is going — years is being taken away, it is going to — years is being taken away, it is going to be _ years is being taken away, it is going to be really— years is being taken away, it is going to be really hard. - going to be really hard. there _ going to be really hard. there will— going to be really hard. there will be _ going to be really hard. there will be some - going to be really hard. l there will be some form going to be really hard. - there will be some form of climb—down, but it won't be presented as a u—turn. i presented as a u—turn. i agree. _ presented as a u—turn. i agree, and they will be some way of reaching... but it is quite hard for people out there listening to concern about the port when, in fact, so little is being done for the poor by the governments in the recent past, and really, we have seen an incredible

rise in child poverty, a diminution of many other things that help those with young people who are in poor circumstances... find with young people who are in poor circumstances. . ._ with young people who are in poor circumstances... and huge rages to the minimum _ circumstances... and huge rages to the minimum wage, _ circumstances... and huge rages to the minimum wage, etc. _ the minimum wage, etc. 0h. _ the minimum wage, etc. oh. please. _ the minimum wage, etc. oh, please, please! - oh, please, please! -- huge raises to the minimum —— huge raises to the minimum wage. -- huge raises to the minimum wage. the two or £3 — -- huge raises to the minimum wage. the two or £3 billion _ -- huge raises to the minimum wage. the two or £3 billion spent _ -- huge raises to the minimum wage. the two or £3 billion spent on - -- huge raises to the minimum wage. the two or £3 billion spent on it - -- huge raises to the minimum wage. the two or £3 billion spent on it as . the two or £3 billion spent on it as a drop in the ocean compared to the state pension, for example. 1.2 billion people... let's _ 1.2 billion people... let's zoom - 1.2 billion people... let's zoom out - 1.2 billion people... let's zoom out a i 1.2 billion people... . let's zoom out a little 1.2 billion people... - let's zoom out a little from 1.2 billion people... _ let's zoom out a little from the treasury. the view at the moment as they are not changing, because if you can't do difficult — not changing, because if you can't do difficult stuff now, when can you? _ do difficult stuff now, when can you? but— do difficult stuff now, when can you? but the prime ministers talk about— you? but the prime ministers talk about the — you? but the prime ministers talk about the 800,000 pensioners who do not claim _ about the 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit, and about how the _ not claim pension credit, and about how the triple pension will go up in this parliament will stop that is what _ this parliament will stop that is what he — this parliament will stop that is what he is saying. let's _ what he is saying. let's zoom out. one of your next books, oryour let's zoom out. one of your next books, or your latest book out is about liz truss's tenure. i

understand she expressed personal concern or surprise you are actually writing a book about her brief tenure in downing street! i think it was more horror than delight! — delight! she should write it! she should write it! she suddenly appeared in front of me and said. _ she suddenly appeared in front of me and said. i_ she suddenly appeared in front of me and said, i hearyou are she suddenly appeared in front of me and said, i hear you are writing a book— and said, i hear you are writing a book about — and said, i hear you are writing a book about me, and i was alone at a party. _ book about me, and i was alone at a party. as— book about me, and i was alone at a party. as is— book about me, and i was alone at a party, as is often the case, and suddenly, — party, as is often the case, and suddenly, she was there, and i didn't— suddenly, she was there, and i didn't know what to say, and she said. _ didn't know what to say, and she said. i_ didn't know what to say, and she said. i am — didn't know what to say, and she said, i am writing my own book, you know _ said, i am writing my own book, you know before — said, i am writing my own book, you know. before i could think of a reply. — know. before i could think of a reply. she _ know. before i could think of a reply, she had gone, and i was left on my— reply, she had gone, and i was left on my own — reply, she had gone, and i was left on my own again, sol reply, she had gone, and i was left on my own again, so i thought i had to write _ on my own again, so i thought i had to write it— on my own again, so i thought i had to write it following that. and the amount _ to write it following that. and the amount of— to write it following that. and the amount of people who had said to me, oh, amount of people who had said to me, oh. are _ amount of people who had said to me, oh. are you _ amount of people who had said to me, oh, are you writing about liz truss? i oh, are you writing about liz truss? i bet _ oh, are you writing about liz truss? i bet it _ oh, are you writing about liz truss? i bet it will— oh, are you writing about liz truss? i bet it will be a short book! as if it was— i bet it will be a short book! as if it was an — i bet it will be a short book! as if it was an original pamphlet, indeed! you have _ it was an original pamphlet, indeed! you have to — it was an original pamphlet, indeed! you have to write it, because it was a disgrace — you have to write it, because it was a disgrace. whether you are a labour or conservative, it was a disgraceful period, because she didn't— disgraceful period, because she didn't listen to people. i happen to think— didn't listen to people. i happen to think she _ didn't listen to people. i happen to think she had the right ideas. who wouldn't _ think she had the right ideas. who wouldn't be in favour of economic growth _ wouldn't be in favour of economic

growth and — wouldn't be in favour of economic growth and stimulating enterprise across— growth and stimulating enterprise across the country? marks _ across the country? marks across your checklist for the first few weeks? i thought she was better than boris johnson _ i thought she was better than boris johnson as— i thought she was better than boris johnson as a prime minister. but she was less— johnson as a prime minister. but she was less bad — johnson as a prime minister. but she was less bad than borisjohnson, partly— was less bad than borisjohnson, partly because she did less damage. the damage borisjohnson did, not least _ the damage borisjohnson did, not least through brexit, through triggering brexit by his capricious decision— triggering brexit by his capricious decision for self interest to back the brexit— decision for self interest to back the brexit campaign and then doing nothing _ the brexit campaign and then doing nothing as— the brexit campaign and then doing nothing as prime minister. he wasn't interested _ nothing as prime minister. he wasn't interested in yielding. you can make a case _ interested in yielding. you can make a case for— interested in yielding. you can make a case for brexit, but he wasn't interested _ a case for brexit, but he wasn't interested. he was interested in other— interested. he was interested in other things, frivolously. but — other things, frivolously. but he _ other things, frivolously. but he cheapened government. i spent my life _ but he cheapened government. i spent my life and _ but he cheapened government. i spent my life and education and want people — my life and education and want people to — my life and education and want people to go into public service. he denigrated — people to go into public service. he denigrated public service will stop he denigrated the tory party, and i think— he denigrated the tory party, and i think that — he denigrated the tory party, and i think that they are both partly responsible for the size of the defeat — let me bring in vicky, you lost your chelmsford seat but served in liz

truss's administration. do you recognise the picture being painted? it was very chaotic doing too many things— it was very chaotic doing too many things at— it was very chaotic doing too many things at once _ it was very chaotic doing too many things at once i_ it was very chaotic doing too many things at once. i had _ it was very chaotic doing too many things at once. i had seen- it was very chaotic doing too many things at once. i had seen liz- it was very chaotic doing too many things at once. i had seen liz as l it was very chaotic doing too many things at once. i had seen liz as a| things at once. i had seen liz as a focused _ things at once. i had seen liz as a focused foreign— things at once. i had seen liz as a focused foreign secretary- things at once. i had seen liz as a focused foreign secretary on - things at once. i had seen liz as a focused foreign secretary on the| things at once. i had seen liz as a i focused foreign secretary on the big issues _ focused foreign secretary on the big issues and _ focused foreign secretary on the big issues and thought _ focused foreign secretary on the big issues and thought she _ focused foreign secretary on the big issues and thought she would - focused foreign secretary on the big issues and thought she would bring i issues and thought she would bring focus _ issues and thought she would bring focus to— issues and thought she would bring focus to number— issues and thought she would bring focus to number ten _ issues and thought she would bring focus to number ten and _ issues and thought she would bring focus to number ten and that - issues and thought she would bring focus to number ten and that did l issues and thought she would bring l focus to number ten and that did not happen _ focus to number ten and that did not happen i_ focus to number ten and that did not happen. i was — focus to number ten and that did not happen. i was wrong _ focus to number ten and that did not happen. i was wrong. she _ focus to number ten and that did not happen. i was wrong.— happen. i was wrong. she was a terrible lord _ happen. i was wrong. she was a terrible lord chancellor. - happen. i was wrong. she was a terrible lord chancellor. it - happen. i was wrong. she was a terrible lord chancellor. it was. happen. i was wrong. she was a | terrible lord chancellor. it was a really difficult _ terrible lord chancellor. it was a really difficult period, _ terrible lord chancellor. it was a really difficult period, but - terrible lord chancellor. it was a really difficult period, but as - terrible lord chancellor. it was a really difficult period, but as a l really difficult period, but as a party. — really difficult period, but as a party. we _ really difficult period, but as a party. we have _ really difficult period, but as a party, we have to _ really difficult period, but as a party, we have to rebuild - really difficult period, but as a i party, we have to rebuild trust, really difficult period, but as a - party, we have to rebuild trust, we have _ party, we have to rebuild trust, we have to _ party, we have to rebuild trust, we have to go — party, we have to rebuild trust, we have to go back— party, we have to rebuild trust, we have to go back and _ party, we have to rebuild trust, we have to go back and think - party, we have to rebuild trust, we have to go back and think about. party, we have to rebuild trust, we . have to go back and think about what we stand _ have to go back and think about what we stand form — have to go back and think about what we stand for... the _ have to go back and think about what we stand for. . ._ we stand for... the last time i saw ou was we stand for... the last time i saw you was in — we stand for... the last time i saw you was in the _ we stand for... the last time i saw you was in the american _ we stand for... the last time i saw. you was in the american ambassador residents when kwasi kwarteng had been fish out of washington. and this is happening in can your party rebuild trust? are they learning the right lesson's are they learning the lesson of seats like yours you lost to the liberal democrats, focusing on reform? green like i have always said you only win elections if you

win from the centre as well. what drives me as a conservatives is caring about taxpayer money, making sure it _ caring about taxpayer money, making sure it is _ caring about taxpayer money, making sure it is well— caring about taxpayer money, making sure it is well spent, _ caring about taxpayer money, making sure it is well spent, public— sure it is well spent, public services _ sure it is well spent, public services but _ sure it is well spent, public services but that _ sure it is well spent, public services but that they - sure it is well spent, public services but that they are l sure it is well spent, public. services but that they are not sure it is well spent, public- services but that they are not taxed too much — services but that they are not taxed too much i— services but that they are not taxed too much iworry— too much. i worry the labour government will— too much. i worry the labour government will put - too much. i worry the labour government will put very - too much. i worry the labouri government will put very high too much. i worry the labour- government will put very high taxes on two _ government will put very high taxes on two people — government will put very high taxes on two people yet— government will put very high taxes on two people yet making _ government will put very high taxes on two people yet making sure - government will put very high taxesl on two people yet making sure there is a safety _ on two people yet making sure there is a safety net — on two people yet making sure there is a safety net in _ on two people yet making sure there is a safety net in decent _ on two people yet making sure there is a safety net in decent public- is a safety net in decent public services — is a safety net in decent public services as— is a safety net in decent public services as well. _ is a safety net in decent public services as well. i _ is a safety net in decent public services as well. i have - is a safety net in decent public services as well. i have always is a safety net in decent public- services as well. i have always been an economic— services as well. i have always been an economic fiscal— services as well. i have always been an economic fiscal conservative, - services as well. i have always been an economic fiscal conservative, i. an economic fiscal conservative, i am also _ an economic fiscal conservative, i am also very— an economic fiscal conservative, i am also very much, _ an economic fiscal conservative, i am also very much, let _ an economic fiscal conservative, i am also very much, let people . an economic fiscal conservative, i| am also very much, let people get an economic fiscal conservative, i- am also very much, let people get on with their— am also very much, let people get on with their own — am also very much, let people get on with their own lives. _ am also very much, let people get on with their own lives. telling - am also very much, let people get on with their own lives. telling people i with their own lives. telling people for smoking? — with their own lives. telling people for smoking? i_ with their own lives. telling people for smoking? i know— with their own lives. telling people for smoking? i know who _ with their own lives. telling people for smoking? i know who i- with their own lives. telling people for smoking? i know who i am - with their own lives. telling people for smoking? i know who i am notl for smoking? i know who i am not supporting — for smoking? i know who i am not supporting i_ for smoking? i know who i am not supporting. i would _ for smoking? i know who i am not supporting. i would not— for smoking? i know who i am not supporting. i would not vote - for smoking? i know who i am not supporting. i would not vote for l supporting. i would not vote for robert — supporting. i would not vote for robertjenrick. _ supporting. i would not vote for robertjenrick. i— supporting. i would not vote for robertjenrick. i don't - supporting. ! would not vote for robertjenrick. i don't think- supporting. i would not vote for robert jenrick. i don't think she supporting. i would not vote for . robertjenrick. i don't think she is great _ robertjenrick. i don't think she is great at _ robertjenrick. i don't think she is great at managing _ robertjenrick. i don't think she is great at managing things - robertjenrick. i don't think she is great at managing things and - robertjenrick. i don't think she is great at managing things and i - robert jenrick. i don't think she is . great at managing things and i don't think you — great at managing things and i don't think you he— great at managing things and i don't think ou. .. great at managing things and i don't think you- - -— think you... he might welcome that non-endorsement _ think you... he might welcome that non-endorsement i _ think you... he might welcome that non-endorsement i think. - think you... he might welcome that non-endorsement i think. any - think you... he might welcome that non-endorsement i think. any of. think you... he might welcome that | non-endorsement i think. any of the others, no non-endorsement i think. any of the others. so for _ non-endorsement i think. any of the others, go for it. _ non-endorsement i think. any of the others, go for it. it _ non-endorsement i think. any of the others, go for it. it is _ non-endorsement i think. any of the others, go for it. it is not _ non-endorsement i think. any of the others, go for it. it is not rocket - others, go for it. it is not rocket science, others, go for it. it is not rocket science. why — others, go for it. it is not rocket science, why has _ others, go for it. it is not rocket science, why has the _ others, go for it. it is not rocket l science, why has the conservative party— science, why has the conservative party been — science, why has the conservative party been the most successful force in british— party been the most successful force in british political history

globally the more successful, it is so simple. — globally the more successful, it is so simple, because they are the centrist — so simple, because they are the centrist party. they claim the centre — centrist party. they claim the centre ground and have decent people who gain _ centre ground and have decent people who gain trust you are able to talk and tell— who gain trust you are able to talk and tell a — who gain trust you are able to talk and tell a story and they know... they— and tell a story and they know... they constantly reinvent, as the electric— they constantly reinvent, as the electric changes.— electric changes. this shocking thin . electric changes. this shocking thin that electric changes. this shocking thing that was _ electric changes. this shocking thing that was done _ electric changes. this shocking thing that was done to - electric changes. this shocking thing that was done to so - electric changes. this shocking | thing that was done to so many decent people when boris took the whip away from them and all those decent conservatives, think of the way in which we have seen the loss of amber rudd, justine greening, nick soames had it taken away from him. dominic grieve. brute nick soames had it taken away from him. dominic grieve.— nick soames had it taken away from him. dominic grieve. we are going to see in his members _ him. dominic grieve. we are going to see in his members it _ him. dominic grieve. we are going to see in his members it will— him. dominic grieve. we are going to see in his members it will be - him. dominic grieve. we are going to see in his members it will be full- see in his members it will be full of, see in his members it will be full of. i_ see in his members it will be full of. i got — see in his members it will be full of. i got it— see in his members it will be full of, i got it all wrong. i know this exact— of, i got it all wrong. i know this exact can — of, i got it all wrong. i know this exact can of— of, i got it all wrong. i know this exact can of person, he will met his errors~ _ exact can of person, he will met his errors. ~ , ., ., ., exact can of person, he will met his errors, ~ , ., ., ., ., errors. we must, we have to move on. we could talk— errors. we must, we have to move on. we could talk for _ errors. we must, we have to move on. we could talk for a _ errors. we must, we have to move on. we could talk for a long _ errors. we must, we have to move on. we could talk for a long time _ errors. we must, we have to move on. we could talk for a long time about. we could talk for a long time about the staff but there was an immediate

headache, a crisis emerging in universities. a clear ask today from the universities to the government for help of some sort, with one vice chancellor naming a price of sorts. professor shitij kapur of king's college london suggested universities in england need £12,500 per year in tuition fees to break even. he told hundreds of vice—chancellors at the universities uk annual conference in reading, "you go back to 2015—2016 and if you take that as the anchor evidence break—even amount and progress it to today, it's between £12,000 and £13,000 depending upon your assumptions." he said that was the "number to ask for" if the sector wanted to return to "a reasonable time" when the sector could give the british undergraduate a world—class education that was research—informed. eliza bourke, a student at goldsmith's in london, has joined us in the studio. clearly there is acknowledgement, admission from the university bosses

that there is a real crisis. and they are raising the spectre, the possibility of 12 and a half thousand pounds tuition fees, what the students make of that? much eve one the students make of that? much everyone i— the students make of that? much everyone i know _ the students make of that? much everyone i know would _ the students make of that? much everyone i know would be - the students make of that? idiom everyone i know would be outraged. i am a member of the students against the transformation programme at goldsmiths university which has cut around one third of teaching staff yet they have £50 million in reserves. we believe this is an ideological decision, in addition they have cut departments such as anthropology, sociology, educational studies, theatre and performance and yet have not touched economics or communal computer science so it is clear where their priorities lie. if they were to raise tuition fees the universities would start spending their money are bit better. the reneral their money are bit better. the general sense _ their money are bit better. the general sense you see as a student in the university sector right now, recognition of the crisis? yes,

in the university sector right now, recognition of the crisis?- recognition of the crisis? yes, i cannot speak — recognition of the crisis? yes, i cannot speak for _ recognition of the crisis? yes, i cannot speak for everyone - recognition of the crisis? yes, i cannot speak for everyone at i recognition of the crisis? yes, i . cannot speak for everyone at every university. i know it is notjust goldsmiths. things are flat kent, hull, wolverhampton, small and medium—sized universities, but quite frankly it's absolute chaos and has a knock—on effect within terms of administration, people unable to enrol, not able to pick optional modules. �* . enrol, not able to pick optional modules. . , , ,�* modules. and it is freshers' week cominu modules. and it is freshers' week coming pp- _ modules. and it is freshers' week coming pp- let's— modules. and it is freshers' week coming up. let's reverse - modules. and it is freshers' week coming up. let's reverse out - modules. and it is freshers' week coming up. let's reverse out of i coming up. let's reverse out of this. it should be able industry for this. it should be able industry for this country. higher education, they pay a lot of tuition fees, a lot of debt out there, what is going on? you were former education minister. suddenly you are part way through it| and the rules seem to chan minister. ifeel you were former education minister. ifeel you were former education minister. i feel really sorry for young people you were former education minister. i feel really sorry for young people who sign— i feel really sorry for young people who sign up— i feel really sorry for young people who sign up for— i feel really sorry for young people who sign up for a _ i feel really sorry for young people who sign— i feel really sorry for young people who sign up— i feel really sorry for young people who sign up for— i feel really sorry for young people who sign up for a _ i feel really sorry for young people who sign up for a course _ i feel really sorry for young people who sign up for a course and - i feel really sorry for young people who sign up for a course and will. who sign up for a course and will spend _ who sign up for a course and will who sign up for a course _ i feel really sorry for young people who sign up for a course and - i feel really sorry for young people who sign up for a course and will. who sign up for a course and will spend _ who sign up for a course and will spend a — who sign up for a course and will spend a huge _ spend a — who sign up for a course and will spend a huge _ who sign up for a course and will spend a huge amount _ who sign up for a course and will spend a huge amount of- who sign up for a course and will spend a huge amount _ who sign up for a course and will spend a huge amount of- who sign up for a course and will spend a huge amount of money, who sign up for a course and will. spend a huge amount of money, i who sign up for a course and will- spend a huge amount of money, i have and the rules seem to change. - who sign up for a course and will spend a huge amount of money, who sign up for a course and will. spend a huge amount of money, i who sign up for a course and will- spend a huge amount of money, i have three kids _ spend a huge amount of money, i have three kids _ spend a huge amount of money, i have three kids in _ spend a huge amount of money, i have three kids in their— spend a huge amount of money, i have three kids in their 20s _ spend a huge amount of money, i have three kids in their 20s myself. - three kids in _ spend a huge amount of money, i have three kids in their— spend a huge amount of money, i have three kids in their 20s _ spend a huge amount of money, i have three kids in their 20s myself. - spend a huge amount of money, i have three kids in their 20s myself. sign. three kids in their 20s myself. sign up three kids in their 20s myself. sign up to— three kids in their 20s myself. sign up to a _ spend a huge amount of money, i have three kids in their 20s myself. sign. three kids in their 20s myself. sign up three kids in their 20s myself. sign up to— three kids in their 20s myself. sign up to a _ three kids in their 20s myself. sign up to a course— three kids in their 20s myself. sign up to a course at— three kids in their 20s myself. sign up to a course at university- three kids in their 20s myself. sign up to a course at university and - up to a course at university and three kids in their 20s myself. sign up to a course— three kids in their 20s myself. sign up to a course at— three kids in their 20s myself. sign up to a course at university- three kids in their 20s myself. sign up to a course at university and - up to a course at university and suddenly— up to a course at university and suddenly you _ up to a course at university and suddenly you are _ up to a course at university and suddenly you are part - up to a course at university and suddenly you are part way - suddenly— up to a course at university and suddenly you _ up to a course at university and suddenly you are _ up to a course at university and suddenly you are part - up to a course at university and suddenly you are part way - up to a course at university and i suddenly you are part way through up to a course at university and i suddenly you are part way through it up to a course at university and - suddenly you are part way through it and the _ suddenly you are part way through it and the rules— suddenly you are part way through it and the _ suddenly you are part way through it and the rules— suddenly you are part way through it

and the rules seem _ suddenly you are part way through it and the rules seem to— suddenly you are part way through it and the rules seem _ suddenly you are part way through it and the rules seem to— suddenly you are part way through it and the rules seem to change. i suddenly you are part way through it i and the rules seem to change. where is that— and the rules seem to change. where is that contract — and the rules seem to change. where is that contract with _ and the rules seem to change. where is that contract with the _ and the rules seem to change. where is that contract with the students i is that contract with the students who signed — is that contract with the students who signed up— is that contract with the students who signed up to _ is that contract with the students who signed up to your— is that contract with the students who signed up to your course? ii who signed up to your course? i always— who signed up to your course? i always say. _ who signed up to your course? i always say. give _ who signed up to your course? i always say, give young - who signed up to your course? i always say, give young people i who signed up to your course? i- always say, give young people more transparency— always say, give young people more transparency about _ always say, give young people more transparency about the _ always say, give young people more transparency about the course, i always say, give young people more transparency about the course, the i transparency about the course, the experience — transparency about the course, the experience of— transparency about the course, the experience of previous _ transparency about the course, the experience of previous students, . experience of previous students, hi-h experience of previous students, high dropout _ experience of previous students, high dropout be _ experience of previous students, high dropout be wary— experience of previous students, high dropout be wary of- experience of previous students, high dropout be wary of that i experience of previous students, i high dropout be wary of that course, because _ high dropout be wary of that course, because you — high dropout be wary of that course, because you go _ high dropout be wary of that course, because you go into— high dropout be wary of that course, because you go into that _ high dropout be wary of that course, because you go into that with - high dropout be wary of that course, because you go into that with reallyl because you go into that with really -00d because you go into that with really good faith— because you go into that with really good faith and _ because you go into that with really good faith and i_ because you go into that with really good faith and i going _ because you go into that with really good faith and i going to— because you go into that with really good faith and i going to walk i because you go into that with really good faith and i going to walk out l good faith and i going to walk out of that. _ good faith and i going to walk out of that, universities _ good faith and i going to walk out of that, universities are _ good faith and i going to walk out of that, universities are really i of that, universities are really important. _ of that, universities are really important. i_ of that, universities are really important, i always _ of that, universities are really important, i always said i of that, universities are really important, i always said theyl of that, universities are really i important, i always said they are the jewel— important, i always said they are the jewel in _ important, i always said they are the jewel in the _ important, i always said they are the jewel in the british _ important, i always said they are the jewel in the british crown, i important, i always said they are l the jewel in the british crown, four out of— the jewel in the british crown, four out of the — the jewel in the british crown, four out of the top _ the jewel in the british crown, four out of the top ten _ the jewel in the british crown, four out of the top ten world _ out of the top ten world universities _ out of the top ten world universities are - out of the top ten world universities are here i out of the top ten world | universities are here and out of the top ten world i universities are here and it's really— universities are here and it's really important _ universities are here and it's really important we - universities are here and it's really important we look i universities are here and it's. really important we look after universities are here and it's- really important we look after them. 12 and _ really important we look after them. 12 and a _ really important we look after them. 12 and a half— really important we look after them. 12 and a half thousand _ really important we look after them. 12 and a half thousand pounds, i really important we look after them. 12 and a half thousand pounds, it i 12 and a half thousand pounds, it would _ 12 and a half thousand pounds, it would put — 12 and a half thousand pounds, it would put a — 12 and a half thousand pounds, it would put a lot— 12 and a half thousand pounds, it would put a lot of— 12 and a half thousand pounds, it would put a lot of young - 12 and a half thousand pounds, it would put a lot of young people i 12 and a half thousand pounds, it l would put a lot of young people off going _ would put a lot of young people off going to _ would put a lot of young people off going to universities _ would put a lot of young people off going to universities at _ would put a lot of young people off going to universities at all. -

would put a lot of young people off going to universities at all. i thinkj spent my life in schools and i think schools. _ spent my life in schools and i think schools, the state sector are critically— schools, the state sector are critically underfunded as our further— critically underfunded as our further education. let's pack that. universities— further education. let's pack that. universities need more money. there is no country— universities need more money. there is no country on earth that does not thrive. _ is no country on earth that does not thrive. isn't— is no country on earth that does not thrive, isn't thriving because it's -0t thrive, isn't thriving because it's got a _ thrive, isn't thriving because it's got a healthy and thriving higher education sector. it's about more than _ education sector. it's about more than the — education sector. it's about more than the economy, it is helping people — than the economy, it is helping people live for and meaningful lives~ — people live for and meaningful lives the _ people live for and meaningful lives. the universities often denigrated for being inferior are in a left _ denigrated for being inferior are in a left behind areas, socially and culturally— a left behind areas, socially and culturally and economically are vital— culturally and economically are vital to— culturally and economically are vital to the north—east and north—west and in scotland and wales — north—west and in scotland and wales. we have to fund them, we have to fund _ wales. we have to fund them, we have to fund them _ wales. we have to fund them, we have to fund them properly. there are 'ust to fund them properly. there are just under— to fund them properly. there are just under 2 million students at the

moment— just under 2 million students at the moment who are £50,000 or more in debt _ moment who are £50,000 or more in debt. tote _ moment who are £50,000 or more in debt. ~ , ., , moment who are £50,000 or more in debt. ~ ,., , . ., moment who are £50,000 or more in debt. ,.., debt. we should be clear, people should rrot _ debt. we should be clear, people should not be _ debt. we should be clear, people should not be put _ debt. we should be clear, people should not be put off _ debt. we should be clear, people should not be put off necessarilyl debt. we should be clear, people l should not be put off necessarily by that because often... should not be put off necessarily by that because often. . ._ that because often... definitely, it is the best — that because often... definitely, it is the best thing, _ that because often... definitely, it is the best thing, it _ that because often... definitely, it is the best thing, it is _ that because often... definitely, it is the best thing, it is a _ that because often... definitely, it is the best thing, it is a wonderful| is the best thing, it is a wonderful thing _ is the best thing, it is a wonderful thing to— is the best thing, it is a wonderful thing to go— is the best thing, it is a wonderful thing to go to university. we just need _ thing to go to university. we just need to— thing to go to university. we just need to get a proper thoughtful study— need to get a proper thoughtful study looking at other countries more _ study looking at other countries more and — study looking at other countries more and recognising the government has to— more and recognising the government has to put— more and recognising the government has to put in— more and recognising the government has to put in more into the higher education — has to put in more into the higher education sector. like has to put in more into the higher education sector.— has to put in more into the higher education sector. like to give your mini credentials _ education sector. like to give your mini credentials but _ education sector. like to give your mini credentials but currently i mini credentials but currently chancellor of sheffield. sheffield hallam, former master of... before that i was president _ hallam, former master of... before that i was president of _ hallam, former master of... before that i was president of the - hallam, former master of... before that i was president of the school i that i was president of the school of oriental and african studies, that before that oxford brookes chancellor. i have gone through a range of universities and we have a really rather rich and fertile range of universities which have

specialisms in different things. and often have if you like a different community. for example it was interesting going from somewhere like oxford where philanthropy is great as well but also where there is high level of research and we were very damaged at oxford by the coming out of europe, that was and hopefully is being mended now, but that was really detrimental to the research harmonisation that there was across institutions. but for example, i left and i very did deliberately was keen to go to university base in a different place and sheffield hallam is very much geared toward the local communities of that region. many of the people coming to study there are coming, not all but many come from backgrounds where parents did not go to university and are having the experience for the first time and people are investing in saving and people are investing in saving and people are investing in saving and people are minicab drivers paying for kids to go to university. when

you see that they are automatically getting jobs, you see that they are automatically gettingjobs, i'm you see that they are automatically getting jobs, i'm afraid the finding for young people now, life is not what was being promised. many will alloy degree but are not getting into law firms because law firms are restricting the numbers they are training. we got to make sure the promises being lived up to two but visas, we are not for example, one of the things many universities have survived bringing students from abroad and now there has been a reduction in the students coming from abroad. 0ne reduction in the students coming from abroad. one good thing it university as you meet people from other parts of the world. part of the experience. it other parts of the world. part of the experience.— the experience. it has been a massive export _ the experience. it has been a massive export industry i the experience. it has been a massive export industry but i the experience. it has been a i massive export industry but now you have a situation and this is a great irony, anthony talked about how this has grown in areas that were left behind but in trying to seek the red well politics so successful for your party, we had to reduce net migration. now, your party seems to

want... i migration. now, your party seems to want... ., ., ., ,, . ., want... i tried to argue for special kinds of visas _ want... i tried to argue for special kinds of visas that _ want... i tried to argue for special kinds of visas that were _ want... i tried to argue for special kinds of visas that were for - kinds of visas that were for students. a special category, i remember going to see theresa may and persuade her that students should be taken out of the numbers. most students go back to their own country, they do not stay here. the general public feel differently about students coming and students being here, because of...— being here, because of... nickname have intel- — being here, because of... nickname have intel- i — being here, because of... nickname have intel. i have _ being here, because of... nickname have intel. i have been _ being here, because of... nickname have intel. i have been talking - have intel. i have been talking around government _ have intel. i have been talking around government about - have intel. i have been talking around government about this| have intel. i have been talking - around government about this and they are _ around government about this and they are concerned. we are worried says one _ they are concerned. we are worried says one minister, they are working on a potential rescue plan. the word is they— on a potential rescue plan. the word is they can't — on a potential rescue plan. the word is they can't help all universities and there — is they can't help all universities and there won't be a blank cheque but they— and there won't be a blank cheque but they are talking about stepping in in one _ but they are talking about stepping in in one of two categories. first of university looked like it was in jeopardy— of university looked like it was in jeopardy and that would have a knock-0h — jeopardy and that would have a knock—on effect on the rest of the sector, _ knock—on effect on the rest of the sector, they would act. second is if

an university— sector, they would act. second is if an university looked in jeopardy and that would — an university looked in jeopardy and that would have an impact on investor— that would have an impact on investor confidence, would step in. talking _ investor confidence, would step in. talking about three problems. international students, the flow has dried do _ international students, the flow has dried up. not dried up but slowed down _ dried up. not dried up but slowed down. tuition fees have not gone up. very difficult — down. tuition fees have not gone up. very difficult for a labour government to put them up. finally efficiency. — government to put them up. finally efficiency, they see universities realty— efficiency, they see universities really can— efficiency, they see universities really can make serious efficiencies. talking to a member of the cabinet — efficiencies. talking to a member of the cabinet they say it's not an urgent — the cabinet they say it's not an urgent crisis but are a it. they say rishi _ urgent crisis but are a it. they say rishi sunak— urgent crisis but are a it. they say rishi sunak was my decision to not restrict— rishi sunak was my decision to not restrict graduate visas before the election— restrict graduate visas before the election actually helped create a breathing space. had he done that the sector— breathing space. had he done that the sector would have tipped over. i the sector would have tipped over. believe it's the sector would have tipped over. i believe it's becoming a crisis, it will grow— believe it's becoming a crisis, it will grow it— believe it's becoming a crisis, it will grow if it's _ believe it's becoming a crisis, it will grow if it's not _ believe it's becoming a crisis, it will grow if it's not dealt - believe it's becoming a crisis, it will grow if it's not dealt with i will grow if it's not dealt with speedily _ will grow if it's not dealt with speedity~ [_ will grow if it's not dealt with seedil . ~ will grow if it's not dealt with seedil . ,, . ., speedily. i think certain universities _ speedily. i think certain universities are - speedily. i think certain universities are really i speedily. i think certain | universities are really on speedily. i think certain - universities are really on the speedily. i think certain _ universities are really on the brink of serious trouble. i think there will be emergencies but we have got to remember that one of the things that will be vital for us in the world is training up people with

skills, making sure there are people who have the technical skills who are going to be entrepreneurial and set up this small start—up companies that will be part of the green economy. all of that stuff and we have got to have better conversations with universities. irate conversations with universities. we are slightly short of time. what do you make of this discussion? there is a recognition maybe not quite in government there is an urgent crisis but... does that soothe your concerns? i but. .. does that soothe your concerns?— but... does that soothe your concerns? ~ ., ,. , concerns? ithinki am sceptical, i think how — concerns? ithinki am sceptical, i think how urgent _ concerns? ithinki am sceptical, i think how urgent would _ concerns? ithinki am sceptical, i think how urgent would it - concerns? ithinki am sceptical, i think how urgent would it have i concerns? ithinki am sceptical, i think how urgent would it have to | think how urgent would it have to get before they step in? and i am worried about what courses they think are worth saving. we hear so many discussions about the so—called mickey mouse courses, let's promote medicine and stem courses but what about arts and humanities? we are a huge export. the about arts and humanities? we are a huge “port-— huge export. the humanities are under threat, _

huge export. the humanities are under threat, even _ huge export. the humanities are under threat, even in _ huge export. the humanities are under threat, even in our - huge export. the humanities are under threat, even in our most l under threat, even in our most ancient — under threat, even in our most ancient universities. so