received a very small have received a very small occupational pension, they don't receive pension credit, they are looking after every penny and suddenly because they don't receive pension credit and cannot receive pension credit and cannot receive pension credit and cannot receive pension credit because they have a very small occupational pension, their winter fuel allowance is taken their winter fuel allowance is ta ken away their winter fuel allowance is taken away and this will make a real difference to them. i think that we really have to consider them and have a serious debate about how we will protect these people and if i may make one suggestion to the government and this was alluded to by the honourable member who has just spoken, they should have been some serious debate about tapering or this is about a punishment beating. the new labour government decided a punishment beating. the new labour government decided they had to make their case when the public

finances were in a dire state. hang on. there was this 22 billion black hole. we spend 1200 billion billion black hole. we spend i200 billion pounds every year in this 22 billion so—called black hole, a mere accounting device. in this whole debate, what the labour government are trying to do was to make the political point that the conservative party ran the country into the ground and therefore we've got to punish therefore we've got to punish the pensioners. it is absolute and complete rubbish. and what those we represent can't understand, these people who worked hard all their lives, have done their bit for the country, their total package is perhaps 13 or £14,000 a year. what they can't understand is that this so—called saving of public money is actually going

to go to train drivers who own £70,000 a year. theyjust don't understand it. so for god sake, let's have a serious debate. let's try to unite on this issue and let's not keep taking away benefits from people just above the pension credit limit. and of course there are many pensioners who are entitled to pensioners who are entitled to pension credit for all sorts of reasons will never claim it. they are suffering and so they will be even worse off than there is another point to be made. i know the government will argue the total package will argue the total package will be worth more after the increase in the triple lock next year but, actually, if you are a pensioner who is drawing your pension before 2016, by the time you've had this cut, you will probably be even worse off. the first cut in the state pension for years. this is not acceptable. this is not the

right way to go about things. we should unite around a sensible package that rewards pensioners for their hard work but does not indulge in a political gesture. i recognise the serious _ political gesture. i recognise the serious economic- political gesture. i recognise| the serious economic context political gesture. i recognise . the serious economic context of this debate today. the afs, for example, is estimated that 320,000 people had been pushed into poverty because of mortgage interest rate rises triggered by the disastrous autumn 2022. and of course there are many unfunded policies that the then prime minister made. so when i recognised the measures and the king's speech will go a long way to reducing and reducing in the medium term, tackling the appalling poverty that we are seeing, they will not come in time for this winter. i am proud that they by continuing the triple lock on pensions,

something that will be worth an estimated £416, an extra £416. this will not happen until next spring. the setting up of the new energy production company, again, alongside making homes more efficient, is a fantastic initiative and it will contribute to our net zero targets and reduce the energy bills. again, this won't be in time to offset the 10% increase in energy bills this winter. i support ourfocus in energy bills this winter. i support our focus about growing our economy but again, this will not happen overnight. the joseph rowntree foundation estimated in their report earlier this year that there are 2 million pensioners, one in six of all pensioners. poverty rates are much higher. we estimate that will also be

the same for pensioners. we know that four in ten older people have a disability and almost half of a long time health condition. before the escalation energy costs one in six were living in fuel poverty. although pension credit provides extra support for the poorest pensioners, and opens up help such as council tax discounts for those who are eligible for it, only five and a half thousand of the 9000 households are eligible. again. i welcome the automatic linking of pension credit to housing benefit to increase the uptake. this won't happen in time for the next few months. thank you so much. i can't. i've been under strict guidance from the deputy speaker. 0ne under strict guidance from the deputy speaker. one in three pensioners live in poverty are

on private rented accommodation to what are we going to do about that? but even if everyone eligible for pension credit would claim it, according to age uk that will still be 2 million pensioners less well off it won't be eligible for the pension credit or the winter fuel payment. the cut—off threshold for pension credit is just under £12,000 a yearfor a single person, not wealthy pensioners. poverty is poverty, whoever experiences it. we have 8 million working people living in poverty. 4 million children and 2 million pensioners. as we did under the previous labour administrations, we know it won't happen overnight so can i point out what we know about the health effects of the cold. there was a very good paper

published, revealing date of the past 20 years, which shed the past 20 years, which shed the extra deaths, the excess deaths as a result of the cold. i could mention dozens and dozens of cases from my constituents are written into me who are reallyjust clinging on following the last 14 years. could i ask my right honourable friends if they are able to say what they may have considered notjust in terms of offsetting the loss of £300 but also alternative ways of raising the 1.4 billion means testing that we will get from the winter fuel payment. i know how complex and difficult our situation is but please, we must protect our most vulnerable citizens. i called the liberal _ vulnerable citizens. i called the liberal democrat - the liberal democrat spokesperson. the liberal democrat s--okeserson. . , spokesperson. thank you, very much. spokesperson. thank you, very much- my _ spokesperson. thank you, very much. my inbox _ spokesperson. thank you, very much. my inbox has _ spokesperson. thank you, very much. my inbox has been - much. my inbox has been

inundated with correspondence from pensioners in north—east fife, where it gets very cold, who are deeply worried. i know thatis who are deeply worried. i know that is far from a who are deeply worried. i know that is farfrom a unique experience across this house and send the chance the's announcement in latejuly we have held the concerns of our elderly constituents. we know that the winter fuel payment provide support during the coldest months of the year. it is not a luxury and a chance oppose nay decision believe as many as too many people extremely worried how they will afford their energy bills this winter. now, we accept that the new government has been left with an unenviable task of rebuilding our economy after the mess left by the previous government and nobody is disputing years of conservative mismanagement have left the public finances in crisis. but this cut is simply wrong. it is wrong to strip support from the poorest pensioners just as energy bills are set to rise again. it is wrong to force vulnerable elderly people to make that choice between heating and eating this winter and it is the wrong answer to

the challenges that we face. the way that we treat them well debunk vulnerable members of our community reflects who we are as a society and what sort of signal does it stand, turning our backs on millions of pensioners? in addition, i have campaigned consistently for unpaid carers and election, as indeed has my party and our leader. scotty centres data is still awaited but there are almost 1.4 million people across the uk aged over 65 who are providing un—paid care and though carers uk await data on whom many will lose the winter fuel allowance we know that these are some of the most vulnerable in our society. i’m vulnerable in our society. i'm ha - vulnerable in our society. i'm happy to _ vulnerable in our society. i'm happy to give _ vulnerable in our society. i'm happy to give way. on the net of disproportionate attacks on certain groups, i'm sure she is aware, north norfolk is home to 20,000 pensioners and has a title being the oldest constituency in the country, and many of them face, already,

higher energy cost due to the huge number of north norfolk homes which are off the gas grid. does she agree that these cuts will have a disproportionate impact on older rural constituencies like north norfolk and the government must go back to the drawing board with these misguided proposers? i drawing board with these misguided proposers? i think my honourable _ misguided proposers? i think my honourable friend _ misguided proposers? i think my honourable friend forgiving - misguided proposers? i think my honourable friend forgiving me. | honourable friend forgiving me. i think that is one of the things often loss in relation to the energy energy crisis increases. the guarantee does not support those using other forms of fuel and i know that thoseissues forms of fuel and i know that those issues have been raised in the house before and i look forward to hearing what the government is going to do to support those individuals. the new parliament represents an opportunity to move on from the chaos and misery of recent years but this cut would be far from a fresh start. it would be a disappointing and shameful abandonment of poor and vulnerable pensioners. age uk have condemned this cut. they point out that it has been introduced with virtually no notice and no compensatory measures and ijust notice and no compensatory measures and i just want to note from the debate this morning, when the pensions

minister was talking about compensatory measures, that we know that there is real complexity around what will additionally be available to support people. in other questionnaires needed for pension credit. we know that household support fund has been extended but we don't know what that will mean and we know that the £150 grant may be available for some but what you are left without a listing to the debate this morning is that we are in a position where the government made a decision to make this cut but have road properly thought through the consequences of the measures that will be available to support those most in need. when the coalition government came in in 2010, we faced a really serious economic crisis. a very genuine blanco. and we had to make some very tough decisions as a coalition government but we never considered, never did this. —— a very genuine black hole.

there are difficult decisions made during the coalition but the government is saying today that there triple lock and one of the reasons the liberal democrats brought that enduring coalition and by the continue to support the triple lock as we know that not enough has been done to better support vulnerable pensioners. i been done to better support vulnerable pensioners.- vulnerable pensioners. i am sure she — vulnerable pensioners. i am sure she will _ vulnerable pensioners. i am sure she will acknowledge l vulnerable pensioners. lam sure she will acknowledge that in scotland we have the coldest climate in the whole of the united kingdom. we'll be disproportionately hit and it is absurd that will happen in energy—rich scotland. she appealed to all scottish members to ensure this is supported. i'm sure constituents right across scotland will be watching very carefully how scottish members of parliament vote tonight will she encourage them to bed with us this evening? i she encourage them to bed with us this evening?— us this evening? i think we all know that _ us this evening? i think we all know that geographical- know that geographical disparities exist not only in terms of how cold parts of the country are but also in

relation to the differing energy costs, the different communities face. notjust in terms of those different ways but also because of the different means of fuel. 0bviously, different means of fuel. obviously, i am standing here and we will be supporting the official opposition is tonight and other mp5 across the house do so. going back to age uk, they have drawn attention to low take—up rates for pension credit around 1 million pensioners would be eligible but do not claim it often due to a lack of awareness. since the chance the's announcement we've seen lots from the government about how going to increase the update and we have seen reports that suggest an increase in application but also that that wait times for thatis also that that wait times for that is increasing. what i would like to see from the secretary of state is if people are applying for pension credit and only get that confirmed after the winter fuel payment is made, will those people be caught up with? the dwp has

stated that its calculations assume an increase in that uptake of pension credit but that will still leave over 700,000 eligible pensioners not getting pension credit and therefore not getting winter fuel payments. those of us in the last parliament will remember numerous drop ins to outline the steps the then government was taking to encourage pension credit uptake and what mps themselves could do, i certainly remember, writing regularly in my local newspaper column to outline how people could apply but the reality is the numbers of people up taking pension credit is stubbornly stuck at 70% ceiling. i'd be very interested to know what this government is going to do that will be radically different in order to increase this. and the government's rationale is that this cut will save 1.4 billion. but how they made an assessment of what that saving would be if they fulfil that day—to—day of

making sure that all those eligible claim? is another fundamental contradiction at the heart of this measure today? how can the government aim to boost pension credit on the one hand while aiming to maximise the fiscal savings that it maximise the fiscal savings thatitis maximise the fiscal savings that it is making through this cut? what will it cost to increase the take—up rate and can the secretary of state give an assurance that the treasury will give its full support to any measures aimed at boosting the uptake of pension credit. a separate but unrelated issue is the cliff edge. analysis by policy and practice shows that around 130,000 elderly people miss out on pension credit as they are just £500 over the income threshold to claim the benefit and we know that those vulnerable elderly people will now be cut off from winter fuel payments with just a few months' notice. that leaves me feeling that there is cruelty at the heart of this cut. these vulnerable pensioners who spent years struggling under a conservative cost of living crisis are now faced with a

double hit, an increase in energy price cut from the 1st of october alongside being stripped of winter fuel payments. it is important that we do not forget that energy costs are much increased than they were from a few years ago so arguably a winter fuel payment is needed more than it ever was. this house has an opportunity today to do the right thing and protect those vulnerable members of our society. the liberal democrats will be supporting this motion and i hope other members will do the same.— do the same. i'm going to im ose do the same. i'm going to impose a _ do the same. i'm going to impose a clear _ do the same. i'm going to i impose a clear three-minute impose a clear three—minute time — impose a clear three—minute time limit _ impose a clear three—minute time limit from now on. i�*m time limit from now on. i'm pleased _ time limit from now on. i'm pleased to _ time limit from now on. i'm pleased to have _ time limit from now on. in pleased to have the opportunity to speak in this debate on changes to winterfuel changes to winter fuel allowance. i, like many of my colleagues on these benches have been contacted by constituents worried about the impact of these changes but i also bring 25 years of

experience of working on public health and older people, laterally, chief executive of the national ageing charity. during this time i came to understand the impact of cold and damp homes on the health and damp homes on the health and well—being of older people and well—being of older people and the challenges of addressing pensioner poverty. with those pensioners up and down the country who will be losing their winter fuel payments this winter, where the ultimate decision lies. not with the memberfor ultimate decision lies. not with the member for leeds west. but with the member and his party. it turns out they were pursuing a scorched earth policy. the nhs running on empty, cost of housing, asylum seekers and hollow promises on capital projects across the country including in my own constituency. i know that the chancellor and her colleagues

have not taken the decision lightly to means test the winter fuel payments. hard choices have to be made to put the country's finances back in order. we know there are many pensioners who are going to miss out and i worry that they going to be left in the cold. in my constituency there 1160 thousand people eligible but not receiving it. i spoke to one constituency did not know if he was eligible. i urge colleagues to work to support their residents to apply for pension credit and other benefits to which they may be entitled. the other group who risk being left in the cold this winter are those with disabilities, health conditions who live in cold and damp accommodation. we know that cold homes can cause respiratory conditions,

cardiovascular disease, mental health and hypothermia. in 2019 nhs spent at least 2.5 billion per year treating illnesses directly links to cold, damp and dangerous homes. so pensioners are more likely to be living in poorly insulated homes leading to a higher risk of fuel poverty and worried about pensions like barbara in my constituency, a full—time carer, a husband with dementia, having spent my money because they are at home and because he is ill. i would also urge my colleagues that, given the crisis that the nhs faces, oversell directly of the 14 years of funding pressure and cuts from the party opposite, they work with colleagues to ensure winter planning guidance means the nhs tackle fuel poverty. means the nhs tackle fuel ove . ., ~' means the nhs tackle fuel ove . . ~ ,, who would've thought a prime minister, not even an office

for weeks, would be so out of touch with the public? yet here we are and yes, this prime minister is. along with the chancellor and the whole of his cabinet to a going along with and supporting this cruel policy. the chancellor should be under no illusion that the public knows this decision to rob millions of pensioners of their winter fuel allowance for which the government has no mandate, has nothing to and everything to do with cynical political calculation. and the haste with which it is being done is breathtaking. all benefits regulations are required by law to be considered by the also a security advisory committee. this is generally done in advance of the legislation being laid. in this case, however, the labour government has opted for emergency provision that allows that

consideration to be retrospective. some say that thatis retrospective. some say that that is bypassing scrutiny. as well as evading that scrutiny, where is the government's impact assessment on removing winter fuel payments from these pensioners? particularly in light of the latest information that bills will be rising by £150 this year. i that bills will be rising by £150 this year.— £150 this year. i will give wa . £150 this year. i will give way. 18,900 _ £150 this year. i will give way. 18,900 people - £150 this year. i will give i way. 18,900 people losing winter fuel payment in my constituency and many of them are among the 800,000 people who are not eligible for pension credit but below the government's own poverty line. what are they supposed to do? well said. what is worse, madam deputy speaker, that this labour government are so out of touch so early on in the government? the unnecessary haste this change has been brought in? the lack of scrutiny of this policy or the breathtaking hypocrisy labour showing? back in 2017 when the

conservative manifesto stated it would mean test benefits the labour party's reaction was one of horror. if publishing the research that pensioners like to be at risk and they would struggle to meet the —— heat their homes. the conservative did not do it. so what are we seeing here? that labour party, when in office, ditches its beliefs and ditches its research? this government have been telling pensioners they did not want to do this but tough financial decisions must be made. but we all know that is nonsense. that was not the government's message to the already highly paid to trade drivers. when they met them, money was no object. add as much as you want. the public are not stupid as this government think they are. no, this is good old—fashioned politics, taking money away from the people the chance

other things don't vote labour —like pensioners, turn to people that they think do vote labour, train drivers, public sector workers. 0n millions of pensioners, millions of them are struggling to make ends meet are being sacrificed in this political strategic game and by announcing the scrapping of the fourth coming and long—awaited cap on care costs, as well as laying the ground to remove council tax allowance for single people, labour has basically declared war on pensioners which will neither be forgotten or forgiven. 0ur pensioners deserve better than this. it is time labour reversed this decision and restore the winter fuel allowance to all pensioners. in the interest of brevity i would just like to associate myself with the remarks made by my colleagues on this side. the

desperate financial legacy we have been left in the nature of cliff edges, within the benefit system, we should do better than have cliff edges in the future, going forward. and remind ourselves. the subject of this debate is the opposition motion to not means test winter fuel payments which means maintaining payments to millions of people you are quite including members opposite, to admit that they don't need it. given the dire legacy, the fragility of the economy, the immediate need for savings, this is an emergency measure and all the other calls on public spending, i cannot see how that is the best use of 1 billion or more pounds. at the same time, i know that many of my constituents on state benefits, and small private pensions, simply do not have the income to meet their everyday needs and via notjust the winter cold but every bill.

many are written to me with heartbreaking stories of everyday struggles just to maintain the very basic qualities of life. we have heard some mitigations and we will hear about more. that is including the fact, let's remind ourselves, that the poorest pensioners will retain their winter fuel payments. let's remind ourselves that people just above the threshold can apply for funding support through their councillors and male authors are already working hard with residents to make sure that everyone in need gets the support that they need and we've already helped a number of pensioners onto the benefits they deserve and need. but at the same time need to recognise that none of these steps, including the winter fuel payment itself, addresses fundamental issues of poverty. we had to ask how it is this country will be spending £150 billion a year on payments and yet millions of britons who have done the right thing all

their life and worked hard, playing in, i living in poverty and unable to afford the most basic comforts. this is not something we should just accept. this should be a national embarrassment. successive governments have ducked the issue. it is one example of the type of policy to kick the can down the road, responding to a problem never fully addressing it. it is responding to a problem never fully addressing it. it is poorly targeted and for those poorly targeted and for those who need it most not nearly who need it most not nearly enough to make the difference. enough to make the difference. to to the address pensioners to to the address pensioners poverty with a fresh approach poverty with a fresh approach and to challenge assumptions of and to challenge assumptions of the past with ambitious the past with ambitious policies that target the cause policies that target the cause of poverty, notjust symptoms. of poverty, notjust symptoms. just two examples. we can and just two examples. we can and must do so much more. we can must do so much more. we can only deliver real change when only deliver real change when the economy, which is fixed and the economy, which is fixed and stabilised, and that is what stabilised, and that is what this government is utterly this government is utterly committed to. problem never committed to.

honourable members and make a choice, the choice whether to take vital winter pensioners including 20,000 pensioners including 20,000 pensioners including 20,000 pensioners in my constituency. it is important when voting today, when right honourable

it is important when voting today, when right hi yourable platelets get higher. your blood pressure goes up. this puts you at risk of stroke and heart attack. your lungs become inflamed which puts you at risk of pneumonia and chest infection. it makes people with copd more likely to suffer exacerbations and ill health. studies have shown that your physical performance and muscle illnesses. the risks increase as a pro performance and muscle strength to take on walkabout physical performance and muscle strength to take on walkabout are worse in people, are worse in people, particularly elderly people who particularly elderly people who are cold. this reduces your are cold. this reduces your ability to independently ability to independently complete activities of daily complete activities of daily living and makes you more living and makes you more likely to fall. studies shown likely to fall. studies shown that elderly people who are that elderly people who are cold in their home i'm more cold in their home i'm more likely to get up at night to go likely to get up at night to go to the toilet or to wait to the toilet or to wait through the night. this puts through the night. this puts them at the risk of falls and them at the risk of falls and hospitalisation. sleep hospitalisation. sleep disruption puts them at risk of disruption puts them at risk of a whole host of different in a whole host of different in illnesses. the risks increase illnesses. the risks increase

as a proportional as a proportional response to the level of cold. you don't need to take my word for this. there's lots of medical evidence to this end. in his annual report last year, the chief medical officer said cold homes and fuel poverty are directly linked to access winter deaths. it directly linked to access winter deaths.— directly linked to access winter deaths. , ., winter deaths. it is a powerful and emotive _ winter deaths. it is a powerful and emotive speech _ winter deaths. it is a powerful and emotive speech and - winter deaths. it is a powerful and emotive speech and she l winter deaths. it is a powerful| and emotive speech and she is talking quite rightly about some of the impacts on pensioners. would you agree with me that there is exactly the sorts of impacts that should be captured in an impact assessment before this house so that we can make an informed decision. made 25,000 constituents who may be facing a loss of this motion goes ahead today are increasingly talking about the right honourable memberfor talking about the right honourable member for leeds west as

he is absolutely right. i constituents know why there is the impact assessment because they know what the impact will be. as ministers voted today, they should be in no doubt, the firstjob is to keep people safe,