mechanism, and i say to my people, i want to look them in the face and say i did the right thing. the face and say i did the right thing-— the face and say i did the right thing. the face and say i did the riauhtthin. ,, a a, , a, right thing. the secretary of state. thank _ right thing. the secretary of state. thank you. _ right thing. the secretary of state. thank you. this - right thing. the secretary of state. thank you. this has l right thing. the secretary of - state. thank you. this has been a really important _ state. thank you. this has been a really important debate - state. thank you. this has been a really important debate about| a really important debate about the serious issue with many heartfelt contributions and the member for hackney south and shoreditch, the new chair of the treasury select committee, forensically set out the delayed and deferred a decision is by the former government which have put such pressure on the public finances. the member spoke about pensioners and children and disabled people in poverty and the need to do much more to support them. the memberfor north east more to support them. the member for north east fife talked about the crucial issue of pension credit uptake and what we are going to do that is different and i will say more about that later but i want to reassure her that the treasury

is fully behind the action that we are taking. the member for shipley with her huge experience in health and social care, talked about the need to work with those in supported accommodation and housing associations and the nhs to make sure pensioners get the help they are entitled to and i will spell some of the action out. the memberfor rossendale and darwen made a strong case for targeting health on the poorest pensioners and the need to tackle the root causes of poverty including insulating homes and bring energy costs down. and the memberfor pool, one of the things he said was the long and complex form for pension credit which i have asked to be reduced to make it asked to be reduced to make it as simple as possible. i would like to start by setting out why we have taken the difficult decision to means test winter

fuel payments so they are no longer available to all pensioners whatever their income. but focused on those in greatest need. put simply, it is because we must fix the foundations of our economy is the first step to rebuilding the first step to rebuilding the uk and making the changes our country desperately needs. and because when money is tight our priority must be to target resources on those who need it most. members opposite do not want to be reminded of their record and the state they left the country in but their economic failure and reckless decisions left a £22 billion hole in the public finances this year. a £61; billion overspend on the asylum system.

£2.9 billion overspend in the transport budget. new roads, hospitals and train stations announced as their policy but not budgeted for. one unfunded commitment after another, and the reserves spent three times over. spending like there is no tomorrow with no thought of the consequences today. and, madam deputy speaker, that is before we even begin to deal with the challenges we already knew about, nhs waiting lists at 7.6 million, overi million waiting for a council home, i totally broken prison system and over 4 million children growing up poon million children growing up poor. of course members opposite want to deny this is the case but the office for budget responsibility is crystal clear. they were only

made aware of the true extent of the pressures on the public finances after we were elected. pressures, they say, constitute one of the largest overspend is outside of the pandemic. and faced with its reality, and the need to get the public finances on track, this year, we took the difficult decision to focus winter fuel payments on those in greatest need. i will indeed give way. in greatest need. i will indeed cive wa . �* . ., give way. i'm grateful and the issue of pension _ give way. i'm grateful and the issue of pension credit - give way. i'm grateful and the issue of pension credit uptake issue of pension credit uptake is clearly critically important and i know from discussions i have had in my constituency that there are some myths around this and ineligibility, so... ,, , ~ ., ., ., so... studio: we are going to come away — so... studio: we are going to come away from _ so... studio: we are going to come away from this - so... studio: we are going to come away from this for - so... studio: we are going to come away from this for a - come away from this for a moment. that was liz kendall,

of course, the minister for work and pensions, replying for the government after a lot of criticism from the government. —— from the opposite benches. we are going to take you out of the house of lords because the director—general of the bbc tim davie and the director of the bbc board are there to discuss the work of the bbc. they are being questioned about huw edwards. i being questioned about huw edwards. . ., . ~' being questioned about huw edwards. u, . ~' , ., edwards. i could take you through _ edwards. i could take you through the _ edwards. i could take you through the timeline - edwards. i could take you through the timeline but | edwards. i could take you i through the timeline but let edwards. i could take you - through the timeline but let me talk to you about the... you are satisfied _ talk to you about the... you are satisfied that _ talk to you about the... you are satisfied that we - talk to you about the... you are satisfied that we guess, but everybody _ are satisfied that we guess, but everybody else - are satisfied that we guess, but everybody else was - are satisfied that we guess, - but everybody else was unaware? i have _ but everybody else was unaware? i have a _ but everybody else was unaware? i have a timeline _ but everybody else was unaware? i have a timeline here. _ but everybody else was unaware? i have a timeline here. the - i have a timeline here. the sist i have a timeline here. the 31st ofjuly, wednesday, that is when huw edwards pleaded guilty and i invited the

executive and the board met and we met a couple of times and we went through this in great detail and decided that we supported the decision taken by tim davie and his team but we felt there was a genuine issue about the abuse of power and it was worth examining that. we have done this many times. abuse of power is notjust the bbc, it is constantly a problem and we need to be vigilant about this and i can talk about the terms of reference a bit more. from the moment of the decision on the wednesday and the statement from the board on thursday night, the following thursday night, the following thursday night, the following thursday night, produced on friday morning, in my view that is not a long time. we had to take a lot of evidence and i had to talk to all the board members individually and we had

to board meetings. tim davie and his team writing papers about it, and it seemed to take about it, and it seemed to take about seven days to come up with a statement, that is not bad going, so i do not agree that we were slow on this. i could take you in detail with every single step. i’m could take you in detail with every single step.— every single step. i'm not questioning _ every single step. i'm not questioning the _ every single step. i'm not questioning the length i every single step. i'm not questioning the length of| every single step. i'm not - questioning the length of time that the — questioning the length of time that the board _ questioning the length of time that the board took _ questioning the length of time that the board took in - questioning the length of time that the board took in order. questioning the length of time that the board took in order to discharge _ that the board took in order to discharge its _ that the board took in order to discharge its responsibilities. discharge its responsibilities but the _ discharge its responsibilities but the question _ discharge its responsibilities but the question i'm - discharge its responsibilities but the question i'm getting| discharge its responsibilities. but the question i'm getting to is the — but the question i'm getting to is the visibility _ but the question i'm getting to is the visibility and _ but the question i'm getting to is the visibility and the - is the visibility and the transparency- is the visibility and the transparency of- is the visibility and the transparency of the . is the visibility and the i transparency of the role is the visibility and the - transparency of the role of the board — transparency of the role of the board in— transparency of the role of the board in holding _ transparency of the role of the board in holding the _ board in holding the director—general- board in holding the director—general toi board in holding the - director—general to account board in holding the _ director—general to account and the secretary— director—general to account and the secretary of _ director—general to account and the secretary of state - director—general to account and the secretary of state steppingl the secretary of state stepping in in the — the secretary of state stepping in in the absence, _ the secretary of state stepping in in the absence, it _ the secretary of state stepping in in the absence, it seems - the secretary of state stepping in in the absence, it seems toi in in the absence, it seems to the public, _ in in the absence, it seems to the public, of— in in the absence, it seems to the public, of anybody - in in the absence, it seems to the public, of anybody else i the public, of anybody else holding _ the public, of anybody else holding the _ the public, of anybody else i holding the director—general the public, of anybody else - holding the director—general to account, — holding the director—general to account, and _ holding the director—general to account, and because - holding the director—general to account, and because i'm - account, and because i'm conscious— account, and because i'm conscious of— account, and because i'm conscious of time, - account, and because i'm conscious of time, i- account, and because i'm - conscious of time, i wondered if you — conscious of time, i wondered if you could _ conscious of time, i wondered if you could give _ conscious of time, i wondered if you could give your- conscious of time, i wondered if you could give your view- conscious of time, i wondered if you could give your view as i if you could give your view as to whether _ if you could give your view as to whether you _ if you could give your view as to whether you might - if you could give your view as to whether you might seek. if you could give your view as| to whether you might seek to if you could give your view as . to whether you might seek to be more _ to whether you might seek to be more transparent. _ to whether you might seek to be more transparent. the _ to whether you might seek to be more transparent.— more transparent. the board statement — more transparent. the board statement was _ more transparent. the board statement was a _ more transparent. the board statement was a public - more transparent. the board - statement was a public document about what we felt about the

actions and what we were going to do, and the secretary of state conversation, it is not right to present that as holding him to account, and the secretary of state is free to call whoever they would like, and if the conversation is about information, i don't have about information, i don't have a problem about that, but i don't think it is about accountability and me and tim understand what accountability is, but if the secretary of state wants to know what is going on i'm perfectly relaxed about the conversations that take place. tim davie's accountability is to the chair and the board, and the conversations that took place, and remained and it was reported as summons, but that was a pristine, he had a phone call conversation —— that was a press thing. he often speaks directly to the secretary of state and that is fine as long as we know what it is about, it

is about information but not about holding someone to account, and it is myjob to hold the director—general to account and i think that is clear. . ~ account and i think that is clear. ., ~' , ., account and i think that is clear. ., ~ , ., clear. thank you. the point that i'm — clear. thank you. the point that i'm trying _ clear. thank you. the point that i'm trying to _ clear. thank you. the point that i'm trying to make - clear. thank you. the point | that i'm trying to make here clear. thank you. the point. that i'm trying to make here is that— that i'm trying to make here is that the — that i'm trying to make here is that the role _ that i'm trying to make here is that the role of— that i'm trying to make here is that the role of the _ that i'm trying to make here is that the role of the chair- that i'm trying to make here is that the role of the chair and l that the role of the chair and the board _ that the role of the chair and the board is— that the role of the chair and the board is also _ that the role of the chair and the board is also to - that the role of the chair and the board is also to uphold l that the role of the chair and l the board is also to uphold the public— the board is also to uphold the public trust _ the board is also to uphold the public trust and _ the board is also to uphold the public trust and confidence - the board is also to uphold the public trust and confidence in i public trust and confidence in the bbc— public trust and confidence in the bbc and _ public trust and confidence in the bbc and the _ public trust and confidence in the bbc and the visibility - public trust and confidence in the bbc and the visibility of l the bbc and the visibility of that, — the bbc and the visibility of that, it _ the bbc and the visibility of that, it is _ the bbc and the visibility of that, it is where _ that, it is where accountability . that, it is where| accountability to that, it is where - accountability to the that, it is where _ accountability to the licence fee payer— accountability to the licence fee payer sits— accountability to the licence fee payer sits at _ accountability to the licence fee payer sits at a _ accountability to the licence fee payer sits at a time - accountability to the licence fee payer sits at a time like| fee payer sits at a time like this — fee payer sits at a time like this that— fee payer sits at a time like this. that is— fee payer sits at a time like this. that is the _ fee payer sits at a time like this. that is the critical- this. that is the critical point _ this. that is the critical point really. _ this. that is the critical point really. you - this. that is the critical point really. you havel this. that is the critical- point really. you have answered the question— point really. you have answered the question and _ point really. you have answered the question and if— point really. you have answered the question and if there's - the question and if there's anything _ the question and if there's anything more _ the question and if there's anything more that - the question and if there's anything more that you i the question and if there's - anything more that you wanted to say— anything more that you wanted to say on— anything more that you wanted to say on accountability - anything more that you wanted to say on accountability to - to say on accountability to licence _ to say on accountability to licence fee _ to say on accountability to licence fee payers - to say on accountability to licence fee payers and - to say on accountability to licence fee payers and the to say on accountability to - licence fee payers and the role involved — licence fee payers and the role involved in _ licence fee payers and the role involved in these _ licence fee payers and the role involved in these situations . involved in these situations that— involved in these situations that we _ involved in these situations that we have _ involved in these situations that we have not _ involved in these situations that we have not covered, i involved in these situations i that we have not covered, and you want— that we have not covered, and you want to _ that we have not covered, and you want to come _ that we have not covered, and you want to come back- that we have not covered, and you want to come back to - that we have not covered, and

you want to come back to mel that we have not covered, and i you want to come back to me or follow— you want to come back to me or follow up — you want to come back to me or follow up in _ you want to come back to me or follow up in writing, _ you want to come back to me or follow up in writing, i'm - you want to come back to me or follow up in writing, i'm happy. follow up in writing, i'm happy for you — follow up in writing, i'm happy for you to _ follow up in writing, i'm happy for you to do _ follow up in writing, i'm happy for you to do that, _ follow up in writing, i'm happy for you to do that, but - follow up in writing, i'm happy for you to do that, but i- follow up in writing, i'm happy for you to do that, but i want. for you to do that, but i want to ask— for you to do that, but i want to ask one _ for you to do that, but i want to ask one further— for you to do that, but i want to ask one further question l to ask one further question around _ to ask one further question around the _ to ask one further question around the bbc— to ask one further question around the bbc archive - to ask one further question around the bbc archive in i around the bbc archive in relation _ around the bbc archive in relation to— around the bbc archive in relation to hugh - around the bbc archive in relation to hugh edwards| around the bbc archive in - relation to hugh edwards and i understand _ relation to hugh edwards and i understand they— relation to hugh edwards and i understand they have - relation to hugh edwards and i understand they have been - relation to hugh edwards and i. understand they have been some steps _ understand they have been some steps taken — understand they have been some steps taken already— understand they have been some steps taken already to _ understand they have been some steps taken already to deal - steps taken already to deal with— steps taken already to deal with some _ steps taken already to deal with some footage - steps taken already to deal with some footage and - steps taken already to deal with some footage and i. steps taken already to deal - with some footage and i wonder if you _ with some footage and i wonder if you could _ with some footage and i wonder if you could give _ with some footage and i wonder if you could give a _ with some footage and i wonder if you could give a sense - with some footage and i wonder if you could give a sense of- if you could give a sense of how — if you could give a sense of how you _ if you could give a sense of how you are _ if you could give a sense of how you are handling - if you could give a sense of how you are handling this i if you could give a sense of. how you are handling this and what — how you are handling this and what is — how you are handling this and what is the _ how you are handling this and what is the approach. - how you are handling this and what is the approach.- how you are handling this and what is the approach. some of the reporting _ what is the approach. some of the reporting has _ what is the approach. some of the reporting has not - what is the approach. some of the reporting has not been - the reporting has not been quite — the reporting has not been quite on _ the reporting has not been quite on the money because we do not — quite on the money because we do not delete anything from the archive. — do not delete anything from the archive, what sits in the bbc archive. _ archive, what sits in the bbc archive, unless we have a legal order— archive, unless we have a legal order to — archive, unless we have a legal order to do _ archive, unless we have a legal order to do so, so that is detecting —— the technicality and — detecting —— the technicality and i— detecting —— the technicality and i don't think we have at at the moment so it is still in the — the moment so it is still in the archive, but what is on the bbc_ the archive, but what is on the bbc iplayer is a matter of editorialjudgment and in a real—world we do not have 100 executives to say, is this

individual right to be seen presenting the death of the queen— presenting the death of the queen question at we have to make — queen question at we have to make sure that has the right leyei— make sure that has the right level of— make sure that has the right level of oversight and that has been — level of oversight and that has been a — level of oversight and that has been a common sense way, that is what — been a common sense way, that is what we — been a common sense way, that is what we are doing. there is no wholesale banning and we are not sitting — no wholesale banning and we are not sitting in the archive and deleting _ not sitting in the archive and deleting files of individuals, because they remain in the archive _ because they remain in the archive but it is appropriate when — archive but it is appropriate when someone has been involved in a case — when someone has been involved in a case like this, that we make _ in a case like this, that we make decisions based on that. we are — make decisions based on that. we are not trying, the bbc stands _ we are not trying, the bbc stands for everything that is not censorship, so my instinct is, it— not censorship, so my instinct is, it is— not censorship, so my instinct is, it is editorial justification, even whether that— justification, even whether that is— justification, even whether that is uncomfortable, some of the footage may emerge but it has got — the footage may emerge but it has got to be in the right situation. we have got good experience of that through various— experience of that through various affairs in the past and also — various affairs in the past and also public events so that is where — also public events so that is where we are.— also public events so that is where we are. �* , . , ., where we are. any concerns that have been _ where we are. any concerns that have been expressed _ where we are. any concerns that have been expressed by - where we are. any concerns that have been expressed by peoplel have been expressed by people that some _ have been expressed by people that some of— have been expressed by people that some of the _ have been expressed by people that some of the very— have been expressed by people| that some of the very important

historic— that some of the very important historic events _ that some of the very important historic events that _ that some of the very important historic events that have - historic events that have involved _ historic events that have involved huw _ historic events that have involved huw edwards . historic events that have i involved huw edwards are historic events that have - involved huw edwards are not going — involved huw edwards are not going to — involved huw edwards are not going to be _ involved huw edwards are not going to be somehow- involved huw edwards are notj going to be somehow digitally changed — going to be somehow digitally changed in— going to be somehow digitally changed in a _ going to be somehow digitally changed in a way— going to be somehow digitally changed in a way that - going to be somehow digitally changed in a way that would l going to be somehow digitally. changed in a way that would be unacceptable? _ changed in a way that would be unacceptable? [— changed in a way that would be unacceptable?— unacceptable? i have not got around to — unacceptable? i have not got around to a _ unacceptable? i have not got around to a proposal - unacceptable? i have not got around to a proposal for - around to a proposal for digital— around to a proposal for digital alteration yet. i'm just— digital alteration yet. i'm just sitting in the archive and making — just sitting in the archive and making judgments, just sitting in the archive and makingjudgments, common—sense making judgments, common—sense judgments based makingjudgments, common—sense judgments based on the editorial occasion that arises. 0k~ _ editorial occasion that arises. ok this— editorial occasion that arises. 0k~ this is— editorial occasion that arises. ok. this is a subject which we could — ok. this is a subject which we could pursue _ ok. this is a subject which we could pursue at _ ok. this is a subject which we could pursue at great - ok. this is a subject which we could pursue at great length i could pursue at great length which — could pursue at great length which l'm _ could pursue at great length which i'm sure _ could pursue at great length which i'm sure the _ could pursue at great length which i'm sure the select- which i'm sure the select committee _ which i'm sure the select committee in _ which i'm sure the select committee in the - which i'm sure the select committee in the house i which i'm sure the select. committee in the house of commons _ committee in the house of commons will— committee in the house of commons will wish - committee in the house of commons will wish to - committee in the house of commons will wish to do l committee in the house of| commons will wish to do so committee in the house of- commons will wish to do so once they— commons will wish to do so once they are — commons will wish to do so once they are formed _ commons will wish to do so once they are formed and _ commons will wish to do so once they are formed and able - commons will wish to do so once they are formed and able to - they are formed and able to take — they are formed and able to take evidence. _ they are formed and able to take evidence. we - they are formed and able to take evidence. we will- they are formed and able to take evidence. we will now| they are formed and able to - take evidence. we will now move to the _ take evidence. we will now move to the other— take evidence. we will now move to the other areas _ take evidence. we will now move to the other areas of _ to the other areas of questioning - to the other areas of questioning that- to the other areas of questioning that we i to the other areas of - questioning that we want to pursue _ questioning that we want to pursue which _ questioning that we want to pursue which is _ questioning that we want to pursue which is relating - questioning that we want to| pursue which is relating very much — pursue which is relating very much to— pursue which is relating very much to the _ pursue which is relating very much to the report - pursue which is relating very much to the report we - pursue which is relating very- much to the report we published a couple — much to the report we published a couple of— much to the report we published a couple of years _ much to the report we published a couple of years ago _ much to the report we published a couple of years ago and - much to the report we published a couple of years ago and how i a couple of years ago and how things— a couple of years ago and how things have _ a couple of years ago and how things have developed. - a couple of years ago and how things have developed. in - a couple of years ago and how. things have developed. in that, as well, — things have developed. in that, as well, we _ things have developed. in that, as well, we are _ things have developed. in that, as well, we are asking - things have developed. in that, as well, we are asking a - things have developed. in that, as well, we are asking a lot- things have developed. in that, as well, we are asking a lot of. as well, we are asking a lot of questions _ as well, we are asking a lot of questions from _ as well, we are asking a lot of questions from the _ questions from the perspective... - questions from the

perspective... questions from the --ersective... ,, , ., , perspective... studio: that is the bbc chair _ perspective... studio: that is the bbc chair and _ perspective... studio: that is the bbc chair and the - the bbc chair and the director—general at the digital committee which is continuing. they were asked about the huw edwards case and that committee is continuing in westminster. we are also going to go back to the main chamber in the house of commons for the debate on the cuts to winter fuel payments which have caused a lot of controversy for the government. this was an opposition motion, and mel stride opened it up, criticising the government for this move, and we heard from conservatives like edward leigh saying this was a political move by the government and he felt that people should unite to sort this out and do away with political gestures and try to support pensioners who are just above the threshold but who would struggle without the winter fuel allowance. we also heard from labour members who

expressed their concern but say they did support the government. the government has a huge majority and it is very likely they will win the vote thatis likely they will win the vote that is due in the next few minutes. we have been hearing from liz kendall as well, the work and pensions secretary, replying for the government, and you can see now the mps filing out now to vote. we will be going to my colleague who will bring us up—to—date with what is going on in westminster. live from london. this is bbc news. the first major test for the new uk government, mps, are to vote on a controversial plan, to remove the winterfuel payment, from millions of pensioners.

iam i am live in westminster with the government is sticking to its plan, despite concern, all sides, that more pensioners could end up in poverty. american voters gear up to watch the two main presidential candidates, debate head—to—head on live tv. i used to be a democrat but i switched to republican but i don't really go by that. i go by who says which better. i go by who says which better. the un condemns an israeli airstrike, on a humanitarian zone in gaza, where at least 19 palestinians have been killed. and spacex launches the polaris dawn rocket from florida, for the first privately funded spacewalk by non—astronauts. hello and welcome to verified live, we'll get the latest from the middle east and gaza in a moment,

we'll also have more of the build up to tonight's