it could be the only tv debate between harris and trump. tonight, newsnight brings you the inside track on how the presidential candidates are prepping and how this prime time face to face could change the race. hello and welcome to newsnight, the place for exciting interviews, insights and debate — and tonight, one debate is our focus, the showdown in philadelphia, in just a few hours�* time, between donald trump

and kamala harris. both face realjeopardy in this tv head to head which could decide which of them will be president. last time trump debated his democrat rival, it prompted the implosion ofjoe biden�*s campaign, faced with unsustainable pressure over his age. how will biden�*s successor fare? in the newsnight studio tonight... gabriel gatehouse, whose new series of the award winning "the coming storm" podcast has launched this week on bbc sounds. it's about conspiracy theories dividing us politics and it's gripping! nick is of course here as ever. and from the states, gloria allred is perhaps america's leading women's rights lawyer and a staunch advocate of kamala harris. stephanie hamill is a conservative political commentator best known for her work at the pro—trump one america news network. and we will be speaking to don lemon

shortly. but first let's go straight to gloria. how important do you think it is tonight for kamal harris to show herself on this big stage? well given that the all this big stage? well given that the poll is very. _ this big stage? well given that the poll is very. very _ this big stage? well given that the poll is very, very close, _ this big stage? well given that the poll is very, very close, and - this big stage? well given that the poll is very, very close, and it - this big stage? well given that the poll is very, very close, and it has| poll is very, very close, and it has been a very short campaign so far for kamala harris, it is extremely important for her, even more so than for trump because many people say they don't know what she stands for. she has been low—key as a vice president publicly, and so this is her opportunity to introduce herself. it is also her opportunity to differentiate her vision for the future from trump's vision of the past. for her to talk about what she can do for the middle class and for freedom versus what trump has a vision for, which is his grievances

in the past and his commitment to seek revenge against those who have challenged him. so this is important...— challenged him. so this is important... challenged him. so this is imortant... ., ., ., , ., important... you are at the dnc and --eole important... you are at the dnc and peeple were — important... you are at the dnc and people were talking _ important... you are at the dnc and people were talking about _ important... you are at the dnc and people were talking about her - people were talking about her energy, the enthusiasm, the mood was uplifting. but since then, there has been talk perhaps of the campaign stalling, jitters and democrat ranks, why is the polling so take? why hasn't she got herself into a more comfortable position? weill. why hasn't she got herself into a more comfortable position? well, i think it's because _ more comfortable position? well, i think it's because of— more comfortable position? well, i think it's because of the _ more comfortable position? well, i think it's because of the short - more comfortable position? well, i think it's because of the short time | think it's because of the short time frame of the polling. people no trump, he is baked into the cake and now they want to get to know kamala harris. she has been vice president for the last three and a half years. prior to that, she was us senator, and before that the governor of california and before that an attorney in san francisco. she needs

to get out there and tell them where she stands on issues. reproductive freedom is an important issue for her and given roe v wade's reversal and the fact that more than half the states have passed restrictions on a woman's right to choose legal affordable abortion and some have attempted to criminalise it, her outspokenness and her leadership on this issue and her promise that if we can get a democratic house and a democratic senate, she will sign a bill to make roe versus wade the law of the land again.— of the land again. sorry to interrupt _ of the land again. sorry to interrupt but _ of the land again. sorry to interrupt but is _ of the land again. sorry to interrupt but is there - of the land again. sorry to interrupt but is there a - of the land again. sorry to | interrupt but is there a risk of the land again. sorry to i interrupt but is there a risk in that strategy of hers, making abortion such a big issue, when it is suggested that actually, it is the economy that is the area that most people think is most important in america, it seems, and he is winning on that one?— in america, it seems, and he is winning on that one? well, i don't think we can _

winning on that one? well, i don't think we can underestimate - winning on that one? well, i don't. think we can underestimate women winning on that one? well, i don't - think we can underestimate women in the united states and how important an issue it is to them. in many states recently, in which states have had restrictive abortion bans, have had restrictive abortion bans, have pro—choice people putting on the ballot a constitutional amendment for their state constitutions in order for their state to become pro—choice again. it has passed every time. women and concerned men have gone to the polls, even suburb women, even republican women and even independent women. so it is an issue thatis independent women. so it is an issue that is going to get people to come out and vote because it's a matter of life and death for many women. we have seen lots of donald trump in debates over years. let's listen to backin debates over years. let's listen to back in 2016, a little clip of his debate with hillary clinton. it's awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is

not in charge of the law in our country. because you'd be injail. secretary clinton... cheering and applause is that the trump we will see tonight? what would you be advising her if you were talking to her about what she is going to be facing? bi; what she is going to be facing? by the way, he is a very dangerous man. he's notjust kind of a showman, he is a dangerous person. he has been the only person in american history who has ever run the president and been convicted 3a times the felonies and now he is facing a prosecutor and now he is facing a prosecutor and he has been indicted for insurrection against our own government. we have never had that before. kamala harris can talk about his record, she doesn't have to take the bait and talk about his lies. she can talk about what she will do for the future, joyful future. a future where people care and have freedom and don't have to have a

dark future. so tonight, if i had to give her advice, and i don't think i do need to because she is a very skilful prosecutor and has a great team behind her, iwould say, introduce yourself to the american people, talk about what you will do, compare and contrast yourself as much to donald trump, don't take the bait in getting sucked into disputing all of his lies, there are just too many and then move on with confidence and i think you will do thejob you need confidence and i think you will do the job you need to do and make us all very proud. the job you need to do and make us all very proud-— all very proud. gloria allred, thank ou for all very proud. gloria allred, thank you for coming _ all very proud. gloria allred, thank you for coming on _ all very proud. gloria allred, thank you for coming on the _ all very proud. gloria allred, thankj you for coming on the programme. all very proud. gloria allred, thank i you for coming on the programme. it isjust under three hours you for coming on the programme. it is just under three hours until this memorable debate starts and the bbc news channel will be bringing it live. but let's bring in nick and gabriel. gabriel, how big a moment do you think this is, this debate tonight? in do you think this is, this debate toniaht? ., , , , , tonight? in one sense, this is absolutely — tonight? in one sense, this is absolutely massive. - tonight? in one sense, this is absolutely massive. it - tonight? in one sense, this is absolutely massive. it is - tonight? in one sense, this is - absolutely massive. it is completely

huge. _ absolutely massive. it is completely huge, especially for kamala harris. as gloria _ huge, especially for kamala harris. as gloria just said, donald trump is baked _ as gloria just said, donald trump is baked into — as gloria just said, donald trump is baked into the cake. we know the various— baked into the cake. we know the various modes, the modalities, you will get _ various modes, the modalities, you will get because you would be in 'ail will get because you would be in jail or— will get because you would be in jail or get— will get because you would be in jail or get the more muted trump that we _ jail or get the more muted trump that we saw against joe biden. jail or get the more muted trump that we saw againstjoe biden. i think_ that we saw againstjoe biden. i think it — that we saw againstjoe biden. i think it will be more coming out swinging — think it will be more coming out swinging trump because i think she is a woman, — swinging trump because i think she is a woman, we should look to the 2016— is a woman, we should look to the 2016 president rather than the twenty20 or more recently. in another— twenty20 or more recently. in another way, though, this is what was written — another way, though, this is what was written in the 605, it is a pseudo- _ was written in the 605, it is a p5eudo— event, nixon again5tjfk when _ p5eudo— event, nixon again5tjfk when nixon look5 p5eudo— event, nixon again5tjfk when nixon looks like he might win butjfk _ when nixon looks like he might win butjfk came across when nixon looks like he might win but jfk came across so much younger and more _ but jfk came across so much younger and more in _ but jfk came across so much younger and more in touch so it was a pivotal— and more in touch so it was a pivotal moment but it was made for media _ pivotal moment but it was made for media consumption.— pivotal moment but it was made for media consumption. nixon won on the radio and jfk — media consumption. nixon won on the radio and jfk on _ media consumption. nixon won on the radio and jfk on the _ media consumption. nixon won on the radio and jfk on the tv. _ media consumption. nixon won on the radio and jfk on the tv. it _ media consumption. nixon won on the radio and jfk on the tv. it was - media consumption. nixon won on the radio and jfk on the tv. it was to - radio and jfk on the tv. it was to do with sweat. _ radio and jfk on the tv. it was to do with sweat. the _ radio and jfk on the tv. it was to do with sweat. the make - radio and jfk on the tv. it was to do with sweat. the make up! - radio and jfk on the tv. it was to do with sweat. the make up! he| do with sweat. the make up! he looked young —

do with sweat. the make up! he looked young and _ do with sweat. the make up! he looked young and vibrant. - do with sweat. the make up! he looked young and vibrant. that i do with sweat. the make up! he - looked young and vibrant. that might be key here- — looked young and vibrant. that might be key here- is— looked young and vibrant. that might be key here- is a _ looked young and vibrant. that might be key here. is a made _ looked young and vibrant. that might be key here. is a made for— looked young and vibrant. that might be key here. is a made for tv - looked young and vibrant. that might be key here. is a made for tv but - be key here. is a made for tv but also made _ be key here. is a made for tv but also made for— be key here. is a made for tv but also made for clipping _ be key here. is a made for tv but also made for clipping on - be key here. is a made for tv but also made for clipping on your. also made for clipping on your 5martphone5 moment. so we will be looking _ 5martphone5 moment. so we will be looking for— 5martphone5 moment. so we will be looking for who will be the one to -et looking for who will be the one to get that— looking for who will be the one to get that you will be in jail moment and because of the way it is set up and because of the way it is set up and the _ and because of the way it is set up and the microphones will be muted and the microphones will be muted and they— and the microphones will be muted and they were behind the lectern i5, and they were behind the lectern is, i and they were behind the lectern i5, ithink— and they were behind the lectern is, i think it _ and they were behind the lectern is, i think it will be a little less ebb and flow — i think it will be a little less ebb and flow |_ i think it will be a little less ebb and flow. ., ., , ., and flow. i want to understand the format and — and flow. i want to understand the format and the _ and flow. i want to understand the format and the structure, - and flow. i want to understand the format and the structure, nick. . and flow. i want to understand the | format and the structure, nick. set out the scene, what are the rules of engagement?— out the scene, what are the rules of enauaement? ., , ., ., ., ., engagement? donald trump and kamala harris have never— engagement? donald trump and kamala harris have never actually _ engagement? donald trump and kamala harris have never actually met _ engagement? donald trump and kamala harris have never actually met and - harris have never actually met and they will be on the same stage in philadelphia for 90 minutes. philadelphia, a big place in us history but also the largest city in pennsylvania. pennsylvania one of the seven swing states and maybe the key swing state. yes, you are right, they have all these rules. kamala harris is very keen to have what they call a hot mic, an open mic, so she can enter up donald trump. why did you want to do that? she is a former prosecutor, she made her name in the early years in the senate, a

big cross examination of brett kavanaugh. trump said he wanted like the rules where wejoe biden. the rules came out from abc and they cannot interrupt each other. no opening statements, two minutes each and on the flip of the coin donald trump gets to make the last statement. they have to stand behind the podium is. no repeat of what you saw on the tape in 2016 with hillary clinton does not know props or prewritten notes on stage. they are allowed each of them a pen, a pad and a bottle of water and two commercial breaks but they cannot consult their campaign teams at that point. consult their campaign teams at that oint. , ., ~ consult their campaign teams at that oint. , ., . ., point. pretty tough. we saw that 2016 cli -. point. pretty tough. we saw that 2016 clip. let's _ point. pretty tough. we saw that 2016 clip. let's look _ point. pretty tough. we saw that 2016 clip. let's look at _ point. pretty tough. we saw that 2016 clip. let's look at a - point. pretty tough. we saw that| 2016 clip. let's look at a different one, a new one. a more recent one which is when trump facejoe biden. let's have a listen to that. the total initiative relative to what we can do with more border patrol and more asylum seekers. president trump? i really don't know what he said

at the end of that sentence. i don't think he knows what he said either. i think what was interesting about that one is he was a much more muted donald trump. as i was watching it, i was thinking, is it becausejoe biden is effectively digging his own grave? but in terms of that, what nick was talking about in terms of the microphone, who is this format, do you think, going to favour, if either of them? i do you think, going to favour, if either of them?— either of them? i think it is interesting _ either of them? i think it is interesting that _ either of them? i think it is interesting that the - either of them? i think it is . interesting that the campaigns wanted — interesting that the campaigns wanted. kamala harri5, a5 interesting that the campaigns wanted. kamala harri5, as nick 5aid, wanted _ wanted. kamala harri5, as nick 5aid, wanted the _ wanted. kamala harri5, as nick 5aid, wanted the open mic5. that so she could _ wanted the open mic5. that so she could interrupt but also that so donald — could interrupt but also that so donald trump could interact and be goaded _ donald trump could interact and be goaded into 5aying donald trump could interact and be goaded into saying something di5ta5teful. that is a high—risk strategym _ di5ta5teful. that is a high—risk strategy... it distasteful. that is a high-risk strategy-u— distasteful. that is a high-risk strategy. . . distasteful. that is a high-risk strate: , strategy... it might put people off orthe strategy... it might put people off or the swing _ strategy... it might put people off or the swing voters? _ strategy... it might put people off or the swing voters? that - strategy... it might put people off or the swing voters? that is - strategy... it might put people off or the swing voters? that is a - or the swing voters? that is a high-risk _ or the swing voters? that is a high-risk strategy _ or the swing voters? that is a high-risk strategy because i l or the swing voters? that is a - high-risk strategy because i would high—ri5k 5trategy because i would venture _ high—ri5k 5trategy because i would venture to — high—ri5k 5trategy because i would venture to guess that that line you be in _ venture to guess that that line you be injail— venture to guess that that line you be injail contributed to him winning _ be injail contributed to him winning in 2016. you had the cheer even _ winning in 2016. you had the cheer even on _ winning in 2016. you had the cheer even on the — winning in 2016. you had the cheer even on the clip, it was huge. they

will be _ even on the clip, it was huge. they will be fixed — even on the clip, it was huge. they will be fixed behind their lectern5 and the _ will be fixed behind their lectern5 and the trump team want trump to be, his mic— and the trump team want trump to be, his micto— and the trump team want trump to be, his micto be_ and the trump team want trump to be, his mic to be switched off. i think they're _ his mic to be switched off. i think they're desperate to keep him boxed in as much— they're desperate to keep him boxed in as much as possible, keep him on message, _ in as much as possible, keep him on message, keep him sort of contained. but as— message, keep him sort of contained. but as we _ message, keep him sort of contained. but as we know, it is very hard to contain _ but as we know, it is very hard to contain trump and i do think that he is going _ contain trump and i do think that he is going to _ contain trump and i do think that he is going to be riled up by debating kamala _ is going to be riled up by debating kamala harris. it is widely known that he _ kamala harris. it is widely known that he respect... he didn't like hillary— that he respect... he didn't like hillary clinton but he respected her, _ hillary clinton but he respected her. he — hillary clinton but he respected her, he thought she was smart. he has given— her, he thought she was smart. he has given no— her, he thought she was smart. he has given no indication he thinks kamala — has given no indication he thinks kamala harris are a smart but he has given— kamala harris are a smart but he has given indications he thinks she isn't _ given indications he thinks she isn't i— given indications he thinks she isn't. i think he will feel threatened by that and come out swinging — threatened by that and come out swinging. forthe coming threatened by that and come out swinging. for the coming storm, threatened by that and come out swinging. forthe coming storm, i interviewed — swinging. forthe coming storm, i interviewed the guy who has played donald _ interviewed the guy who has played donald trump in debate prep, not 'u5t donald trump in debate prep, not just the _ donald trump in debate prep, not just the hillary but kamala harris as welt — just the hillary but kamala harris as well. he really gets into character. he is a method about it. he gets _ character. he is a method about it. he gets the — character. he is a method about it. he gets the suit, he gets lifts to make _ he gets the suit, he gets lifts to make him — he gets the suit, he gets lifts to make him taller and stuff. he said

to me _ make him taller and stuff. he said to me with— make him taller and stuff. he said to me with hillary clinton, that he knew_ to me with hillary clinton, that he knew trump would come out swinging, especially _ knew trump would come out swinging, especially in _ knew trump would come out swinging, especially in the second debate because — especially in the second debate because it wasjust especially in the second debate because it was just after the access hollywood — because it was just after the access hollywood tape, the pudsey grabbing stuff and _ hollywood tape, the pudsey grabbing stuff and i suspect he will do the same _ stuff and i suspect he will do the same tonight. i stuff and i suspect he will do the same tonight-— stuff and i suspect he will do the same tonight. stuff and i suspect he will do the same toniaht. , , , . , same tonight. i suspect he might be wronu. if same tonight. i suspect he might be wrong- if the — same tonight. i suspect he might be wrong. if the polls _ same tonight. i suspect he might be wrong. if the polls are _ same tonight. i suspect he might be wrong. if the polls are to _ same tonight. i suspect he might be wrong. if the polls are to be - wrong. if the polls are to be believed, we know it's a knife edge. nick, you have something that will help us understand quite how close it all is? thank you. as we heard from gloria _ it all is? thank you. as we heard from gloria allred _ it all is? thank you. as we heard from gloria allred it _ it all is? thank you. as we heard from gloria allred it is _ it all is? thank you. as we heard from gloria allred it is neck- it all is? thank you. as we heard from gloria allred it is neck and l from gloria allred it is neck and neck, it is very close. so why don't we just take a look at the new york times' polling average. there it is. we can see kamala harris just ahead of donald trump — 49% to 47%. but there has been a lot of interest in recent days in the new york times siena college poll. this shows that donald trump is one point ahead of kamala harris — 48 to 47% among likely voters. and have we seen a big shift in those numbers

after the excitement of the harris candidacy? it appears not. look at the numbers in late july just after joe biden dropped out — largely the same. so that is raising this very big question, have the fundamentals of this race not really changed after a tumultuous summer? to add to the nerves in the paris camp, let's take a look at this absolutely crucial question in the campaign, it is change, who is the change candidate. if we look at kamala harris here, among the likely electorate she is seen as major change by 25% of likely voters and she is seen as more of the same by 55%. over there, donald trump, he is seen as a major change amongst 53%, more of the same, 34%. you can guess what i'm going to say next, these are just polls and this election will be decided in the swing states and the crucial electors they send to the

electoral college. let's bring in stephanie hamill — conservative commentator, and a former host at the pro—trump one america news network. welcome to newsnight. i would like to say we can see some pictures of donald trump just arriving. that is in philadelphia ahead of the debate in less then three and half hours now. while we look at that picture let me just ask you it was pretty easy for donald trump last time round when he debated joe biden. we were just discussing that earlier. tonight it will be more of a test, do you agree? i will be more of a test, do you auree? . , ., , will be more of a test, do you aree? ., , ., , agree? i agree, the previous debate was a huge — agree? i agree, the previous debate was a huge night — agree? i agree, the previous debate was a huge night for _ agree? i agree, the previous debate was a huge night forjoe _ agree? i agree, the previous debate was a huge night forjoe biden - was a huge night forjoe biden because so many people were wondering if he was mentally capable to continue on as president for anotherfour to continue on as president for another four years. to continue on as president for anotherfour years. many to continue on as president for another four years. many people were concerned about his mental acuity and his stumbling that was

happening, the incoherent ranting during his speeches and so there weren't many questions and he had been dodging the media. and so as many suspected that night was make or break forjoe many suspected that night was make or breakforjoe biden many suspected that night was make or break forjoe biden and many suspected that night was make or breakforjoe biden and it many suspected that night was make or break forjoe biden and it was a break moment. so fast forward to tonight and there are so many questions regarding how kamala harris has become a moderate. a lot of us are very sceptical about how she got to where she is. many of us remember her as the most liberal member of the senedd it, a radical liberal to the left of bernie segers and that is coming notjust for me but from a nonpartisan organisation. so just to enjoy up to say that we are seeing those pictures of donald trump's plane arriving. i would like to ask you, last time there was one of these debates the republican attack strategy was all about the age ofjoe biden but this time it is age ofjoe biden but this time it is a 78—year—old against a 59—year—old

and i think we can hear a clip of something donald trump recently said when it came to childcare where he did not sound, well let's have a listen so people can decide themselves. if you win in november, can you commit to prioritising legislation to make childcare affordable? and if so, what specific piece of legislation will you advance? well, i would do that. and you know, we had senator marco rubio and my daughter ivanka, was so impactful on that issue. it's a very important issue. but i think when you talk about the kind of numbers that i'm talking about, because childcare is childcare. you know, is something you have to have, in this country you have to have it. but when you talk about those numbers compared to the kind of numbers that i'm talking about by taxing foreign nations at levels that they are not used to, but they will get used

to it very quickly. and it's not going to stop them from doing business with us, but they will have a very substantial tax when they send product into our country. it did not seem that he was making much sense, and that is something he accused joe biden of? itrefoil accused joe biden of? well occasionally _ accused joe biden of? well occasionally politicians - accused joe biden of? well occasionally politicians will| accused joe biden of? -ii occasionally politicians will slip up occasionally politicians will slip up and he is unscripted and that kind of stuff will happen. yes he is 78 years old but there is a stark contrast between him and joe biden and that is where the age question was going on. and keep in mind in july there was an assassination attempt on donald trump and he after getting shot got up and racist fist in the air and said fight, fight, fight and was back the next day on the campaign trail. 50 fight and was back the next day on the campaign trail.— the campaign trail. so you think that is the _ the campaign trail. so you think that is the donald _ the campaign trail. so you think that is the donald trump - the campaign trail. so you think that is the donald trump that i the campaign trail. so you think| that is the donald trump that we will see tonight, the one who stands up will see tonight, the one who stands up and says fight, fight, fight? 0r up and says fight, fight, fight? or will it be someone will come? his brace loves _ will it be someone will come? h 3 brace loves to see and be the fight,

fight, fight guy and the guy that goes on with the fist up. but what many of us want to see is a disciplined donald trump who is going to focus on the issues and thatis going to focus on the issues and that is going to be the key to winning this. because he does not have to change our minds, the conservatives, his pace love him but he has to reach out to the swing state voters and independents who will be looking at this debate and this could make a break the decision on who they are going to go for. whetherfor kamala on who they are going to go for. whether for kamala harris or donald trump. whether for kamala harris or donald trum -. g , . , whether for kamala harris or donald trum. , ., whether for kamala harris or donald trum. , ,, , ., trump. just last week he was sharing a ost on trump. just last week he was sharing a post on truth _ trump. just last week he was sharing a post on truth social _ trump. just last week he was sharing a post on truth social suggesting - a post on truth social suggesting kamala harris had given sexual favours to advance her career, is it any wonder that the poll suggests that women prefer kamala harris to donald trump? i did that women prefer kamala harris to donald trump?— donald trump? i did not see that ost but donald trump? i did not see that post but there — donald trump? i did not see that post but there is _ donald trump? i did not see that post but there is no _ donald trump? i did not see that post but there is no secret - donald trump? i did not see that post but there is no secret here i post but there is no secret here that kamala harris is winning with women right now. donald trump, it has been difficult for him to get the support their as your guest

gloria mentioned a lot of people do care about abortion rights and donald trump had picked his supreme court nominees and the supreme court eventually sent the decision to the states which should be. but there are driving issues as well like immigration and the economy and they are top issues and as you pointed out donald trump is depending on the economy. out donald trump is depending on the econom . . ~' out donald trump is depending on the econom . ., ~ , ., out donald trump is depending on the econom . ., ~ i., out donald trump is depending on the econom . . ~ . out donald trump is depending on the econom . ., ~ . ., economy. thank you so much for cominu economy. thank you so much for coming on- _ don lemon is host of the don lemon show. he's interviewed donald trump and kamala harris. and he's the author of new book — i once was lost my search for god in america. welcome to the programme. as i said you've interviewed them both, just take us into the room was just a few hours to go until the debate, give us an insight into their psyche right now?— us an insight into their psyche riaht now? ., ,, ., ., right now? thank you for having me on. ithinkthe — right now? thank you for having me on. i think the former _ right now? thank you for having me on. i think the former president - on. i think the former president donald trump will start with him, he's not much of one for preparation, he relies on pure

energy and because the rules are different for him he does not have to rely on facts. so he can say whatever he wants, he can make up his own rules. he is impervious to criticism. and so some of this does not really matter for him. all he has to do and think he knows it, is to stand up on the stage and respond to stand up on the stage and respond to the vice president. and he can see what every once, he can lie or do whatever about the economy, but gas price, what is happening now with the republicans and is vice presidential pickjd vance and conspiracy theories about immigrants eating cats and household pets. he can do all that on the stage and it will not affect him. for kamala harris the vice president she realises that she is especially is a woman judged realises that she is especially is a womanjudged on our hair down to realises that she is especially is a woman judged on our hair down to the shoes that she is wearing and what comes out of her mouth, it matters.

she needs to be factual, she needs to correct him when he's lying but also she needs to reintroduce herself and quite frankly introduce herself and quite frankly introduce herself to the american people. because we do not know much about her. done in one interview for cnn and the accusation is that she has shied away. the pressure is more on hair than donald trump tonight? the ressure hair than donald trump tonight? ila: pressure is on her but the issue of not doing interviews is made up especially by the right because they want to criticise her and they're trying to get in front of cameras to give them fodder and content. has she done lots of interviews? has l give them fodder and content. has l she done lots of interviews? has she done interviews? _ she done lots of interviews? has she done interviews? she's _ she done lots of interviews? has she done interviews? she's done - she done lots of interviews? has she done interviews? she's done many i done interviews? she's done many interviews before and most of the american people know who the vice president is. what they're trying to get familiar with are her policies. that is what they say, what they mean when they say they do not really know and want to know what policies are and what she stands for. and as vice president of the united states part of yourjob is to

be in the background, kind of the biggest part of yourjob is to be in the background and support the person who is the main actor so to speak. you are in a supporting role and that is the president of the united states was also part of a job is to be acquired and to help the president in any way that he or she can and she is fulfilling that role so not doing anything that is unusual or more unusual than any other president. the spotlight is on tonight of course it is and is a member of the press i believe she should be doing as many interviews as possible and putting yourself in front of the press as often as possible but right now she's running a campaign and i'm sure that her campaign advisers are saying you're doing a greatjob. no unforced errors which make sense in the political round. in errors which make sense in the political round.— errors which make sense in the olitical round. .. political round. in the uk we caught the min: political round. in the uk we caught the ming vase _ political round. in the uk we caught the ming vase strategy _ political round. in the uk we caught the ming vase strategy and - political round. in the uk we caught the ming vase strategy and we - political round. in the uk we caught the ming vase strategy and we saw| political round. in the uk we caught. the ming vase strategy and we saw it with keir starmer. what are you hearing in democrat circles? the

polls are tight, what are you hearing from both sides? i polls are tight, what are you hearing from both sides? i think it is neck and _ hearing from both sides? i think it is neck and neck _ hearing from both sides? i think it is neck and neck and _ hearing from both sides? i think it is neck and neck and i _ hearing from both sides? i think it is neck and neck and i spoke - hearing from both sides? i think it is neck and neck and i spoke to i is neck and neck and i spoke to voters last night and they are concerned about being exactly equal when it comes to the electoral college. and then it goes to congress. that is so tight the election is. she got a slight bump from the democratic convention but not much because i believe the big bump was withjoe biden actually deciding not to run. and donald trump was leading in the polls and i think he had a substantial lead in terms of this election beforejoe biden dropped out. and now kamala harris has made up the difference. and there are neck and neck. you have history _ and there are neck and neck. you have history with _ and there are neck and neck. you have history with donald trump, he called you the dumbest man on television. you may be the perfect person to ask, what's the most effective way to respond when donald

trump has you in his cross hairs? i think donald trump every time he says something about someone else he is actually telling on himself. he is actually telling on himself. he is revealing something about himself. the best way to get at donald trump is to stand up to him and not allow him to bully you. and not allow him to talk over you or steam—roll you. i think the microphone being muted when he's not speaking or she is not speaking i think is in favour of donald trump but for a woman to stand up to him and give as good as he gives, i think it is going to be really tough. and especially a black woman, a woman of colour, that is getting under your skin. a woman of colour, that is getting underyourskin. he a woman of colour, that is getting under your skin. he does not know how to react to a woman who could possibly beat him and who is caught up possibly beat him and who is caught up in the polls. he is doing crazy things, holding press conferences talking about women who have accused him of sexual assault. 0ne talking about women who have accused him of sexual assault. one of them he was found guilty of sexually

assaulting and the judge he was found guilty of sexually assaulting and thejudge in he was found guilty of sexually assaulting and the judge in that case saying it is essentially rape. i do not know why he would even give life to that because most people did not even know he would be in court in one of those cases and he brought a huge light to that. so he is afraid. �* , , ., ,., a huge light to that. so he is afraid. �* , , ., y., ., a huge light to that. so he is afraid. �* , , ., ., afraid. and 'ust before you go, you have a new— afraid. and just before you go, you have a new memoir— afraid. and just before you go, you have a new memoir coming - afraid. and just before you go, you have a new memoir coming out. afraid. and just before you go, you| have a new memoir coming out and afraid. and just before you go, you i have a new memoir coming out and i want to hear about that. my search for god in america dealing with faith, racism, nationalism, how much of these forces are at play in this election and who do you think will win? it election and who do you think will win? . , election and who do you think will win? ., , ., ., election and who do you think will win? .,, ., ., ., election and who do you think will win? ., ., ., ., ., win? it has a lot to do with olitics win? it has a lot to do with politics and _ win? it has a lot to do with politics and with _ win? it has a lot to do with politics and with women'sl politics and with women's reproductive rights and immigration, talks about how religion especially those who want a theocracy in america, how much it has affected our politics and our society. who i think is going to win, in the debate? in the election? in the election. i think if you asked me

after the convention i would have said it would be the vice president kamala harris. if you asked me right now i would say i think it is too close to call.— now i would say i think it is too close to call. don them and thank ou ve close to call. don them and thank you very much — close to call. don them and thank you very much for _ close to call. don them and thank you very much for coming - close to call. don them and thank you very much for coming on - close to call. don them and thank you very much for coming on and | close to call. don them and thank| you very much for coming on and i close to call. don them and thank - you very much for coming on and i do hope we can get you back on newsnight soon. let's bring back gabriel and nick because i want to talk about some of the more outlandish conspiracy theories as you would call them. that are going on, that are swelling in this. because your podcast on bbc sounds is investigating exactly that, conspiracy theories and the divisions in america. let'sjust listen before that to a clip of melania trump that was released today. the attempt to end my husband's life was a horrible, distressing experience. now, the silence around it feels heavy. i can't help but wonder — why didn't law enforcement

officials arrest the shooter before the speech? there is definitely more to this story and we need to uncover the truth. is it isita is it a coincidence that on the date of the debate melania trump who is rarely seen puts out that? i of the debate melania trump who is rarely seen puts out that?— rarely seen puts out that? i mean i have no inside _ rarely seen puts out that? i mean i have no inside intelligence - rarely seen puts out that? i mean i have no inside intelligence but - rarely seen puts out that? i mean i have no inside intelligence but i. have no inside intelligence but i would be surprised if it was coincidence because as conspiracy theorists say there is no such thing as coincidence! i am kidding. theorists say there is no such thing as coincidence! iam kidding. this is minor, this conspiracy theory about the shooter being allowed to carry on, this is all over america. this is massive. but this whole election is basically about a conspiracy theory because much as the democrats think that donald trump presents an existential threat to american democracy which is much the line thatjoe biden was taking

and we've seen kamala harris soften that attack line a bit but that is very much the view in democrat and liberal circles in america. the other side generally millions of them believe that kamala harris were joe biden, these guys are a threat to democracy and stole the last election. millions of americans believe that so nick was talking about who is the candidate for a change here. donald trump presents himself as the candidate who believes, the avatar for the himself as the candidate who believes, the avatarfor the people who believe that the system is so rotten that it has to be taken down. this whole project 2025 is all about dismantling the administrative state, the instruments of democracy. the reason people want this is because they believe the system is rotten. so that is donald trump is the kind of agent of change. kamala harris by contrast, the democrat,

essentially the conservative party want to conserve the system and