risk of serious median. the risk of serious harm to children is medium. a reminder of the case, huw edwards is inside court are waiting to be sentenced this morning. there is still the possibility that case could be thrown to crown court if the magistrate feels he has insufficient sentencing powers. the magistrate can only sentence up to 12 months. anything more needs to be referred to the crown court, a reminder of the charges that huw edwards has pleaded guilty to the top three counts of making indecent images of children. he was sent hundreds of explicit images by 25—year—old alex williams, a convicted paedophile. 41 of those images were of children, seven deemed to be other serious sexual nature. they are categorised as being in category a, their most severe of images of sort. his

barrister told the court in july that mr edwards did not keep any images, did not send any to anyone else and did not and has not sought similar

any to anyone else and did not and has not sought sirr number happening inside court number one. ,, , happening inside court number one. , , one. stay with us, if you would- _ one. stay with us, if you would. let's _ one. stay with us, if you would. let'sjust - one. stay with us, if you would. let'sjust recap l one. stay with us, if you i would. let'sjust recap for would. let's just recap for anyonejoining us here. it is 11 o'clock. this is bbc news, i'm martine croxall. the sentencing of former bbc presenter huw edwards is under way after he admitted making indecent photographs of children. we have been discussing whether the chief magistrate might decide whether he has sufficient sentencing powers. if not, the case could be sent up to the crown court. huw edwards was sent the pictures in question on

whatsapp by a convicted paedophile. let'sjust show whatsapp by a convicted paedophile. let's just show you the arrival shots of huw edwards. this is from earlier this morning, when he came to the magistrates' court. questions were shouted to him about whether he wanted to apologise for his crimes. the former newsreader remained silent. in the last half hour, a prosecutor has told the court that huw edwards paid hundreds of pounds for images. the court was also told that huw edwards describe some images he was sent as amazing. the prosecutor also told the court that it was accepted by the crown that mr edwards has suffered from depression and mental health issues. we have a number of colleagues from bbc news inside the court building who are relaying these proceedings to us on the outside, and receiving and interpreting those for us is our senior uk correspondent, sima. talk to us forfurther correspondent, sima. talk to us for further about what you are

hearing from dominic, our legal affairs correspondent, who is sponsoring the case very closely? it sponsoring the case very closely?— sponsoring the case very closel ? , , ~ closely? it seems like the prosecution _ closely? it seems like the prosecution -- _ closely? it seems like the prosecution -- who - closely? it seems like the prosecution -- who is - prosecution —— who is monitoring the case very closely? the prosecution is going through the argument regarding mr redwoods. the mitigating factor is that mr edwards had a mental disorder. documentation obtained by the defence showing that his decision—making across the relevant time may have been adversely impaired by a mixture of mood disorder and neurocognitive disorder, and alcohol consumption. we also understand that the prosecution say it is also recognised that mr redwoods would appear to have voluntarily dismissed or at least asked not to be sent underaged... inaudible i'm so sorry, we appear to have lost sound from westminster magistrates' court. we were

hearing from sima kotecha. we will get her back in a while. let's speak to lord falconer, a labour peer and barrister who sought the secretary of state forjustice from 2003 till 2007. thank you very much for joining us. talk to us about the significance of this particular case, if you would, from the court system's point of view? it from the court system's point of view? , , , u, of view? it is very significant because it — of view? it is very significant because it is _ of view? it is very significant because it is such _ of view? it is very significant because it is such a - of view? it is very significant because it is such a public. because it is such a public display of how the criminal justice system deals with the depiction of sexual acts against children. it is a very well publicised case and people will form a view as to how the criminaljustice will form a view as to how the criminal justice system will form a view as to how the criminaljustice system deals with these sorts of cases, so it is a very significant thing as a message about how the criminaljustice as a message about how the criminal justice system as a message about how the criminaljustice system deals with the sort of case. and

completely separately it is completely separately it is completely significant because it is probably the most prominent bbc face, the face of all those important events we have gone through over the last ten and may be 20 years, falling from grace, and how does the bbc deal with that? it is these two completely separate things going on, and they are both of very great suspended sentence and the prosecution t of nselves said on suspended sentence and the prosecution t of nsel' great d on they are both of very great significance.— significance.— they are both of very great they are both of very great sianificance. , ., , sianificance. , ., , significance. these were images ofthe significance. these were images ofthe significance. these were images of the worst _ significance. these were images of the worst sort. _ significance. these were images of the worst _ significance. these were images of the worst sort. _ significance. these were images of the worst sort. yeah. - significance. these were images of the worst sort. yeah. - significance. these were images of the worst sort. yeah. to - of the worst sort. yeah. to what extent _ significance. these were images of the worst sort. yeah. to - of the worst sort. yeah. to what extent _ of the worst sort. yeah. to what extent might - of the worst sort. yeah. to what extent might this - of the worst sort. yeah. to | what extent might this case of the worst sort. yeah. to what extent might - of the worst sort. yeah. to what extent might this - of the worst sort. yeah. to | what extent might this case of the worst sort. yeah. to - what extent might this case set a precedent of some sort? well, of the worst sort. yeah. to - what extent might this case set a precedent of some sort? well, it will certainly _ it will certainly _ a precedent of some sort? well, it will certainly tell _ a precedent of some sort? well, it will certainly tell the _ it will certainly tell the a precedent of some sort? well, it will certainly tell _ a precedent of some sort? well, it will certainly tell the _ it will certainly tell the public how the courts deal with public how the courts deal with this. there are already this. there are already precedents in existence as to precedents in existence as to how the courts should deal with how the courts should deal with this, and clear sentencing this, and clear sentencing guidelines which say for the guidelines which say for the most serious sorts of image, most serious sorts of image, and these were amongst these and these were amongst these images, the starting point, not images, the starting point, not necessarily where the sentence necessarily where the sentence ends up, but the starting point ends up, but the starting point

is between six months and three is between six months and three years in prison immediately. years in prison immediately. there may be factors, as sima there may be factors, as sima was saying, that mitigate was saying, that mitigate against an immediate custodial against an immediate custodial sentence, and it is not without sentence, and it is not without interest that the person who interest that the person who supplied the images got a supplied the images got a suspended sentence and the suspended sentence and the prosecution themselves said on prosecution themselves said on the last occasion to the court, consider a suspended sentence. i don't know what the sentence will be, but the starting point for this sort of and z, , c-.- ,, w. -, - 7, will be, but the starting point for this sort of and immediate” w. ,, - 7, imprisonment, and immediate imprisonment. we imprisonment, and immediate imprisonment.— imprisonment. we have been hearina , imprisonment. we have been hearing, though, _ imprisonment. we have been hearing, though, that - imprisonment. we have been hearing, though, that the - imprisonment. we have been l hearing, though, that the issue of overcrowded prisons can play a part, of course. we were speaking to a lawyer who deals with cases like this regularly, from the victims' perspective, that four out of five who are convicted don't have to spend time injail. convicted don't have to spend time i"jail-— convicted don't have to spend time injail-_ time in 'ail. and i'm sure that's time in jail. and i'm sure that's right. _ time in jail. and i'm sure that's right. i— time in jail. and i'm sure that's right. i don't - time in jail. and i'm sure that's right. i don't knowj that's right. i don't know whether it is four out of five

in the most serious category, but very large numbers who are convicted of having child sexual images are not sent to prison, but this is the most serious, and this is, as it were, an exemplar case. not in the sense that a special punishment has got to be given, but the public will see how the criminal justice system but the public will see how the criminaljustice system deals with people who possess pictures of child sexual assaults, as these are, and it will send a message as to how the justice system deals with it. the guidelines are clear, that in the most serious cases, and this is the most serious sort of image, according to what the prosecution has said, not all of them but some of them, you start with a starting point of immediate imprisonment. it may be that there are reasons why huw

edwards shouldn't go to prison, and that is what the court is currently debating, but the law is imprisonment for the most serious sorts of image. i would like to ask _ serious sorts of image. i would like to ask if _ serious sorts of image. i would like to ask if you _ serious sorts of image. i would like to ask if you would - serious sorts of image. i would like to ask if you would just - like to ask if you would just stay with us, because i would like to continue this discussion with you, but we need to look at what is happening in italy, where sir keir starmer is discussing issues of migration with the italian prime minister, george maloney. he visited this morning an immigration centre and has met italian business leaders at the british ambassador's residency. you can see there that the italian government has put on a good show to welcome sir keir starmerfor show to welcome sir keir starmer for these show to welcome sir keir starmerfor these talks. show to welcome sir keir starmer for these talks. he show to welcome sir keir starmerfor these talks. he has already said that the relationship between the uk and italy is a good, strong, historic one, and that they are close allies. earlier, our southern europe correspondent told us what else is likely to be on the agenda.—

told us what else is likely to be on the agenda. italy is the eu member— be on the agenda. italy is the eu member which _ be on the agenda. italy is the eu member which sees - be on the agenda. italy is the eu member which sees the l eu member which sees the highest number of migrant arrivals, and yet this year that number has fallen by 64%, so sir keir starmer is here in rome, his first meeting with giorgia meloni, to learn from what italy has done. i can tell you what italy has done. there have been some financial sweeteners to the main countries of origin where the migrants have set off — tunisia and libya — so last year, the eu gave tunisia 105 million euros to try to boost its coastguard and give its coastguard and give its coastguard greater capacity to clamp down on migrant boats. and italy gave tunisia another 100 million euros for various development projects and financial sweeteners, and that appears to have really been dramatic in terms of reducing numbers. but it comes with a lot of controversy. members of the eu parliament have said, we are bankrolling dictators,

given the fact that the tunisian president is clamping down on democracy in his country. so it is a controversial deal. parallel to that, separate to that, really, is a project in which italy is building two migrant reception centres in albania, due to open later this year, which will have been financed and will be run by the italian government, could hold it is

former bbc presenter. it is taking place at westminster magistrates' court, and we were speaking a moment ago to lord faulkner, the secretary of state forjustice under tony blair from 2003 till 2007. lawful cannot is still with us. reading from my colleague, dominic, who is in the court room listening to the mitigation being set out, now reporting on a factor of mental health disorder. the prosecutor, ian hope, telling the court the documentation ——

documentation received suggested his decision making may have been interned by the disorder, neurocognitive disorder, neurocognitive disorder and alcohol consumption. it is a wide range of factors. consumption. it is a wide range of factors-— of factors. yes, i think that what is happening - of factors. yes, i think that what is happening is - of factors. yes, i think that what is happening is that l of factors. yes, i think that i what is happening is that the prosecution at the moment are outlining, first of all, the facts of the offence, and those are the circumstances in which huw edwards received the images, and what the images consisted of. from your reporting, that is what the prosecution first described. and now they are going to through things that will be relevant in terms of what sentence to impose, and in particular whether to impose an immediate custodial sentence or a suspended custodial sentence, or some kind of community penalty. the relevant issues as to whether there were mitigating factors against what is the most serious category of material that was involved here

are, first of all, huw edwards mental health condition. he has not been convicted of any offence before. thirdly, this appears to be the only occasion, orthe appears to be the only occasion, or the occasions, because i understand it took place over a 16 month period, apart from these offences, it appears there are no other offences, and he is a man of previous good character, as would be said. these are matters that would go to mitigation. the other matters that would be relevant would be the extent to which some sort of community penalty or conditions on which the sentence was suspended have an impact on whether he was at risk of doing this again, and all these other sorts of matters will be currently being debated in court, first by the prosecution, laying out the facts, including about huw edwards's previous conduct and

his state of health, and after the prosecutor has spoken, then the prosecutor has spoken, then the defence counsel will speak on behalf or huw edwards. you talk about _ on behalf or huw edwards. you talk about the _ on behalf or huw edwards. you talk about the various different factors, lord faulkner, and just reading the live page of the bbc website, the prosecutor, ian hope, has said that there are genuinely concerning questions about how best to deal with edwards, currently said to be doing well therapeutically, but the concern is that if he were to be outside of a hospital environment where he is being treated, subject to intimidating public opprobrium, that current state of affairs will not last. there is some concern about one of the risk factors being huw edwards's isolation. to what extent does the public profile of someone, the public profile of someone, the celebrity of someone, if you like, play into the considerations of the court when it comes to sentencing? i think inevitably it does, in two respects. first of all, the

huge amount of publicity attached to huw edwards's sentencing hearing indicates, as i said before, that this will be a very clear demonstration to the public as to how the justice system deals with these cases. the chief magistrate, i'm sure, will be absolutely clear that how one deals with this is that right in line with the way... the second issue is that huw edwards will forever be the person who went through this fall from grace, and although it in no way excuses what happened to him, people will know forever that he committed this crime, in perhaps a way that people who are less well known, that notoriety will not be with people for the rest of their lives. iii be with people for the rest of their lives.— their lives. ifi may, i would like to ask— their lives. ifi may, i would like to ask you _ their lives. ifi may, i would like to ask you to _ their lives. ifi may, i would like to ask you to stay - their lives. ifi may, i would like to ask you to stay with l like to ask you to stay with us, because it is a very important discussion that we are having with you. i need to

go back to westminster magistrates' court and join our senior uk correspondent, sima kotecha, who is following the twists and turns of this hearing inside the building behind her. dominic is keeping you supplied from inside with what is happening, what the prosecution are setting out. fill us in. prosecution are setting out. fill us im— fill us in. that's right, the heafina fill us in. that's right, the hearing is _ fill us in. that's right, the hearing is very _ fill us in. that's right, the hearing is very much - fill us in. that's right, the | hearing is very much under fill us in. that's right, the - hearing is very much under way. i've been telling you all morning that there was a possibility of this case being moved to the crown court. we have just had confirmation from the magistrate that it won't be. it will remain here, which means that he will pass the sentencing, and the sentencing will not be more than 12 months in prison, because that is as much as he can give as a magistrate. anything more needs to go to the crown court. we know that the prosecution has finished its remarks. now the defence is taking place. philip evans, representing edwards,

has reminded the court that he has reminded the court that he has sent in psychiatric reports giving the background to the offending. the chief magistrate indicates he will keep this case, as i told you. philip evans tells the court there is a prospect of rehabilitation here. the concept of making images here is not a concept of taking photographs or moving images. he was sent all of them, he said. it was not payment for the purpose of receiving indecent images, mr ed was positively told mr williams not to send images of people who are under age. that liaison is what happened between alex williams, the 25—year—old, the convicted paedophile, who sent mr edwards hundreds of explicit images, 41 of children, and seven of those of children, and seven of those of an extreme sexual nature. we know that two of those images involved children, a child, should i say, between the ages of seven and nine. we

should i say, between the ages of seven and nine.— of seven and nine. we are “ust heafina of seven and nine. we are “ust hearing as fl of seven and nine. we are “ust hearing as well, i of seven and nine. we are “ust hearing as well, sima * of seven and nine. we are “ust hearing as well, sima, i of seven and nine. we are just hearing as well, sima, that. of seven and nine. we are just| hearing as well, sima, that the chief magistrate has indicated that he will keep the case. in other words, that he will keep the case. in otherwords, it that he will keep the case. in other words, it will not be sent up to the crown court. as you just mentioned, there is a consequence, then, because of the sentencing powers that the magistrate has.— magistrate has. yes, that's ri . ht. magistrate has. yes, that's right- the _ magistrate has. yes, that's right. the magistrate - magistrate has. yes, that's right. the magistrate does| magistrate has. yes, that's i right. the magistrate does not have as much power as a judge in a crown court, for example. if the sentence was to exceed 12 months injail, it would have to go to crown court, but the chief magistrate has made clear that the case is going to stay here. we got an indication of that back injuly, when he asked for lots additional information regarding edwards — to help the poor, more details on his mental health, more details on huw edwards the person. we also heard from the prosecution injuly, asking the magistrate to consider a suspended sentence. we know that alex williams, the man who

sent hundreds of images to huw edwards, was given a 12 month suspended sentence. we also know that his defence injuly made abundantly clear to the court that edwards did not keep any images, did not send any to anyone else, and did not and has not sought similar images from anywhere else. we are hearing his defence barrister say virtually exactly the same in court number one behind me this morning. we have heard a lot about his mental health this morning. but the prosecution and defence are saying that it is clear he has a mental health disorder, that it is something he has been struggling with for years. we know that has been very much in the public domain from when he was anchoring the ten o'clock news. he spoke openly about struggling with his health battle. so we know that a prison sentence is a possibility. if you were to look at sentencing guidelines, it is something that could happen, but there are also other options, such as a community order, or being sent

on a sex offender programme. the wide—ranging elements that have been discussed this morning just show how complex it is when deciding on a sentence. and all of the different factors that need to be taken into account.- be taken into account. that's ri . ht, be taken into account. that's right. yes. — be taken into account. that's right. yes- his— be taken into account. that's right, yes. his barristers - be taken into account. that's right, yes. his barristers will| right, yes. his barristers will put forward as much mitigation as possible because they want him to get a lesser sentence, so they will be talking about, and we know they have already spoken about, his mental health, the fact that this is his first conviction and, you know, whether he is feeling any remorse or not. some description of what he is looking like in court has just come through from my colleague, dominic. huw edwards looks down at his feet as his lawyer begins to explain the background to the offending and his state of mind. his character remains a mitigating

feature. he did not use his position in order to commit these offences. alex william sought him out at a time when mr edwards could properly be described as mentally vulnerable. again, we are feeling the re——— hearing about his mental state of mind. it has been established that he was not only dealing with mental problems but that he also had some physical health problems. also had some physical health problems-— also had some physical health roblems. ., ~ , ., , problems. huw, thank you very much for _ problems. huw, thank you very much for the _ problems. huw, thank you very much for the moment. - problems. huw, thank you very much for the moment. second | the... lord falconer has very kindly stayed with us. we were talking a few moments ago about how celebrity and public profile can be looked at from the court system's perspective. in terms of how he was dealt with by his employer, that's

another question, separate from the court process, but something that has received a lot of attention over the last few months. i lot of attention over the last few months.— lot of attention over the last few months. . ., , few months. i mean, huw edwards was in a unique — few months. i mean, huw edwards was in a unique position _ few months. i mean, huw edwards was in a unique position as - few months. i mean, huw edwards was in a unique position as an - was in a unique position as an employee, because he was the most distinguished, not the most distinguished, not the most distinguished, not the most distinguished, may be, but the most prominent employee of the most prominent employee of the bbc, in the sense that he represented the face of the bbc. the bbc were caught between, on the one hand, having to do what was fair to an employee, but on the other to preserve their reputation, because their reputation is inevitably incredibly damaged by having someone as their main face who has now been convicted of a criminal offence like this. the position became obviously very difficult in november of last year, when senior management were told that he had been, as i understand it, arrested in connection with the depiction of child sexual assault images, and then they were faced with what they had to do. on the one hand, i think they were being

told not to tell anybody this had happened. and on the other, what do they do about their reputation, which is of huge importance? and it was obviously a very difficult dilemma for them. but transparency _ dilemma for them. but transparency is - dilemma for them. but transparency is meantl transparency is meant to be one of the values that the bbc prides itself on. managers tell us that all the time. but prides itself on. managers tell us that all the time.— us that all the time. but how do ou us that all the time. but how do you do — us that all the time. but how do you do with _ us that all the time. but how do you do with the _ us that all the time. but how do you do with the problem | do you do with the problem where someone who has been arrested, you would normally not reveal the circumstances of their arrest until they are child? everyone else would get the benefit of that. should huw edwards be treated in a different way because he is so important to the reputation of the bbc? and that was the dilemma, i assume, the bbc? and that was the dilemma, iassume, that the bbc? and that was the dilemma, i assume, that the bbc faced. , ., ,, faced. there is also the issue of what legally _ faced. there is also the issue of what legally you _ faced. there is also the issue of what legally you can - faced. there is also the issue of what legally you can do - faced. there is also the issue i of what legally you can do when someone is contracted. they might be arrested, they might be charged, but that if they are not yet guilty, you probably have to tread carefully legally in that direction as well.- carefully legally in that direction as well. you can fire them and _ direction as well. you can fire them and take _ direction as well. you can fire them and take the _ direction as well. you can fire i them and take the consequences on the basis that you put your

reputation beyond their rights, but that was not the course that the bbc took here. in terms of _ that the bbc took here. in terms of what the chairman of the bbc board has said, he said that the villain of this piece is huw edwards. there can be no arguing with that. the man has pleaded guilty. arguing with that. the man has pleaded guilty-— pleaded guilty. yes, and that is obviously _ pleaded guilty. yes, and that is obviously correct. - pleaded guilty. yes, and that is obviously correct. he - pleaded guilty. yes, and that is obviously correct. he has l is obviously correct. he has committed an incredibly serious series of criminal offences, where the victims are children, who are being horribly exploited. this is a terrible, terrible criminal offence, so the chairman of the bbc is right when he says that the villain of the piece is huw edwards, but it doesn't mean is the process unfolds that it is not a difficult dilemma for the bbc. ., .. ., ., ~ bbc. lord full cannot, thank ou bbc. lord full cannot, thank you very _ bbc. lord full cannot, thank you very much _ bbc. lord full cannot, thank you very much for _ bbc. lord full cannot, thank you very much forjoining i bbc. lord full cannot, thank you very much forjoining usj you very much forjoining us here on bbc news. —— lord full

cannot. let's go back to westminster magistrates' court. 0ur senior uk correspondent, sima kotecha, is monitoring what is happening inside the court. give us an update, if you would. court. give us an update, if you would-— court. give us an update, if ou would. , ., , �* you would. yes, of course. i've been saying — you would. yes, of course. i've been saying all— you would. yes, of course. i've been saying all morning - you would. yes, of course. i've been saying all morning that i been saying all morning that this case could be moved to crown court if the magistrate felt like he didn't have sufficient sentencing powers. in the last five minutes or so, we have heard that the case will stay here at the magistrates' court, and the chief magistrate will hand down the sentence. that means it can't be more than 12 months in prison, because he doesn't have the power to do that. we had that information in the last ten minutes or so. we know that the defence, philip evans casey, is talking through mitigation. he has sent in a psychiatric support legs —— report explaining the

background to the offending. he has told the court there was a prospect of rehabilitation. the concept of making images here is not a concept of taking photographs or moving images. he said he was sent all of them. and he said it was not payment for the purpose of receiving indecent images. mr edwards positively told mr williams not to send images of people who are underage. so thatis people who are underage. so that is more about the liaison between alex williams and mr edwards. alex williams is the man who sent him the hundreds of explicit images, the 41 of children and the seven that were said to be of class a, the most serious sexual nature. that is more about the conversation between them and edwards's lawyer emphasising that any payment that edwards made to williams was not for the purpose of receiving indecent images. he said that mr edwards positively told mr williams not to send images of people who are underage. we knew that prior to today's

hearing, that he had at least on two occasions told mr williams not to send him content of underaged victims. his defence lawyer says this is important. that message was sent during the course of their communications, when mr edwards had no idea of what would unfold. we have also heard a lot about his mental health over the last ten minutes or so. he has been looking down at his feet as his lawyer has been explaining. the background of the offending anti—state of mind. the lawyer said his character remains a mitigating factor. he did not use his position in order to commit these offences. alex williams sought him out on instagram, he says, at a time when mr edwards could probably be described as mentally vulnerable. also, his lawyer, philip evans, has told the court that mr edwards wishes to apologise. he wishes the court to know how profoundly sorry he is, he

says. he recognises the repugnant nature of such images and the heart it has done to those who appear in such images. for his part in that, he says he apologises sincerely, and he makes it clear that he has the utmost regret. he also says he recognises he has betrayed the priceless trust and faith of so many people. he knows he has hurt and damaged his family and his loved ones around him. he is truly sorry and truly sorry that he has committed these offences. it is meaningful, his remorse, he says, and he has demonstrated a real recognition of the harm such images cause. that is what his barrister, philip evans, defending mr edwards, hasjust told philip evans, defending mr edwards, has just told the court. yes, and as we were reporting earlier, questions were asked a few edwards as he arrived at the court if he wished to apologise. and it is here that _ wished to apologise. and it is here that we _ wished to apologise. and it is

here that we are _ wished to apologise. and it is here that we are hearing - wished to apologise. and it is here that we are hearing that| here that we are hearing that remorse, that regret, which often goes some way when sentence is being passed, if there is a sense of remorse, that can be reflected, can't it? the other points that were being made is, what happens next is well in terms of rehabilitation? any prospect of a relapse? there is a tool that can be used to assess that kind of risk. yes, that's right, the probation service is just a predictor to see if has posed any threat. it came out has medium risk. the event and can be linked to the grave situation of his mental health, says his barrister. the key period of offending was in

2020, when his mental health had deteriorated. the facts of his celebrity is often a mitigating factor, the fall from grace is part of the punishment. he was the bbc does my big star, the man who anchored the bbc news. watching him walk into court today, looking at moments very drawn and distance, he is a convicted sex offender, who is awaiting his

punishment. 0ften looking down in court, fidgeting and listening, looking as if he is listening, looking as if he is listening attentively to both sides of the argument.