on a day of shame for edwards, how damaging is it for the bbc?

welcome to newsnight, live each weeknight. some of the new details that were revealed at westminster magistrates court today as huw edwards was given a six—month suspended jail term for having child sexual abuse images on his phone was disturbing and harrowing. i am going to report a brief extract from the hearing, which i want to let you know is graphic and upsetting. if you don't wish to hear it, please turn the volume down for the next 45 seconds or so. the reason i'm reading it to you is because it featured in open court today and it makes clear the seriousness of some of the images that edwards had on his phone. the court heard that the 63—year—old

knew exactly what he was looking at when he was sent 41 illegal photos and videos of children being sexually abused — children aged between 13 to 15 years old — and a video involving a primary—school aged child. this showed, and i'm quoting from court documents now, "a male child aged around 7 to 9 with his trousers pulled down and his mouth being penetrated by a penis." some of the images sent to the ex—presenter had the ages of the young people in and used the word "adolescents". when the man sending them, a now convicted paedophile called alex williams, asked if he wanted more images of young people, edwards replied: "go on." but also edwards told him, "don't send anything underage". the court heard edwards paid williams "by way of an apparent thank—you" but said he didn't remember opening any of these images.

the chief magistrate in his sentencing remarks said he didn't believe edwards represented a danger to children, believed he could be rehabilitated, was suffering from a mental health disorder and his remorse was genuine. here's what the national crime agency told the bbc today about the retraumatising effect of such child sexual abuse images. behind every image is a vulnerable child that has been exploited and has been abused, and every time that that image is viewed, circulated and distributed again and again and again, leads to re—victimise that child and circulate and continue that level of abuse. the court heard the ex—presenter was "profoundly sorry" and recognised the repugnant nature of such images and the hurt that is done to those who appear in them. today's sentence completed the downfall of the bbc news�* highest paid presenter,

a presenter who continued to be paid by the corporation after he was arrested last november. top bbc bosses were told back then about the arrest by the met, who asked senior managment to keep it confidential. last week, the bbc director general revealed he'd made a formal request to edwards to pay back £200,000 of last year's estimated £475,000 salary. today, the bbc said it was appalled by his crimes. so, tonight, what are the questions still outstanding for the bbc over the way they handled this? has the corporation really learned the comprehensive lessons after stuart hall and jimmy savile? 0ur panel tonight: political commentator adam boulton, who was a friend of edwards but hasn't spoken to him since lastjuly, and former shadow culture secretary thangam debbonaire. later in the show, i'll be talking to former bbc director of tv alan yentob, who was edwards�* boss for a period. first, we have thejournalist who broke the original story for the sun injuly 2023

about an unnamed bbc presenter paying a 17—year—old thousands of pounds in exchange for explicit images, scarlett howes. welcome to newsnight. the mother and stepdad of the young man who was paid that money by edwards, who went to the son last year, what is their reaction to the sentence today? the? reaction to the sentence today? they are absolutely _ reaction to the sentence today? tie: are absolutely devastated reaction to the sentence today? tte: are absolutely devastated by reaction to the sentence today? ttez1: are absolutely devastated by the result of the sentencing. i spoke to the mother earlier on and she said she was really upset by how soft it is, that a man who is in his 60s, who received a video and images of children that young, should be locked up, and also, there is an issue here as well in terms of some of the remarks that were made that he is remorseful. they don't feel he is remorseful, because he has never apologised to them for what has

happened to their son or even spoken out about it, so they don't feel there is remorse there at all. and they told you when they came to the sun of the way that the bbc was investigating the complaint, and their complaint to the bbc was, please can huw edwards stop paying out some thousands of pounds in exchange for images. what did the bbc say about the investigation? —— what they say to about the investigation?— what they say to about the investigation? what they say to about the investi . ation? , ,., , . investigation? they said they had one to investigation? they said they had gone to the _ investigation? they said they had gone to the bbc— investigation? they said they had gone to the bbc to _ investigation? they said they had gone to the bbc to make - investigation? they said they had gone to the bbc to make a - investigation? they said they had - gone to the bbc to make a complaint about huw edwards as behaviour, but that was ignored, which is why they came to us. after we published the story, the bbc launched an investigation, a fact—finding inquiry into what happened. throughout the investigation, they felt it was incredibly slow, nothing was really happening. the stepfather would call the lead investigator

multiple times to ask what had happened. and what was happening. and they said that edwards had not even been interviewed during that time about the allegations, and they were incredibly frustrated by what happened. and i think there was a point where the investigators said to them, along the lines of, and i paraphrase, you can tell us the specific words, essentially, don't worry, there is something bigger coming down the track. yes, they were very upset about, as i said, the progress of the investigation. an interview lasted about 50 minutes with them. if}? investigation. an interview lasted about 50 minutes with them. it}? yes, about 50 minutes with them. 50? yes, 50, which is unbelievably short if you think about the amount of allegations they had their claims. they spent 50 minutes with them, didn't even interview the mother properly. i think the lead investigator didn't even turn up to the interview. never spoke to them really about it again, didn't speak that would see them in person again.

around christmas, the stepfather called up and asked what was happening, and they said, something else is happening, something big is happening, and now we know that that is after edwards was arrested. you say you gave the bbc a dossier of multiple allegations involving alleged inappropriate behaviour by huw edwards, and it involved complaints from bbc staff and people outside of the bbc. as far as you know, what did the bbc do with that information? we know, what did the bbc do with that information?— know, what did the bbc do with that information? ~ ., , , information? we don't know, because the didn't information? we don't know, because they didn't even _ information? we don't know, because they didn't even contact _ information? we don't know, because they didn't even contact the _ information? we don't know, because they didn't even contact the people i they didn't even contact the people that are involved in the dossier to tell them the investigation had closed, so they didn't even hear back from them, so that is the shocking part of it. can you give us some examples of what you put in that dossier? it was just inappropriate behaviour. 0bviously, it was just inappropriate behaviour. obviously, you know, we can't go into a lot of what is in that dossier, but we have published some of it, including a story i was

working on before i even spoke to the parents at the centre of our original story injuly, and that was a young man who edwards was pestering for pictures, sending money to and trying to meet up during lockdown, and he actually did meet him during lockdown, so there was that, and a colleague as well that felt uncomfortable with his behaviour. the bbc say: in the case of huw edwards, we consider carefully all issues raised with this as part of the fact—finding and disciplinary investigation, and that informed disciplinary action during this period. he chose to resign with immediate effect without any financial settlement. do you think if the parents, the mother and stepfather, had had their complaints investigated more thoroughly, more swiftly, there might have been different decisions made by the bbc by the time the met told them edwards was being arrested on suspicion of possession of child sexual abuse images? i

suspicion of possession of child sexual abuse images?- sexual abuse images? i think definitely. — sexual abuse images? i think definitely, and _ sexual abuse images? i think definitely, and that _ sexual abuse images? i think definitely, and that is - sexual abuse images? i think definitely, and that is not - sexual abuse images? i think| definitely, and that is notjust sexual abuse images? i think - definitely, and that is notjust for me. i have notjust at that. that is an independent investigation conducted by deloitte that said the complaint system was not sufficient, and that the complaint was mishandled, and the bbc apologised to the parents for that. so there is definitely some kind of failing in this sense, yes. do they still want the outcome of that disciplinary inquiry? yes, yes. they have an apology and feel somewhat vindicated but also feel somewhat vindicated but also feel like there is no closure. so they have gone through all of this, a year of hell, really, to be told in april when edwards resigned, 0k, in april when edwards resigned, ok, that in april when edwards resigned, 0k, thatis in april when edwards resigned, ok, that is it, case closed, the investigation is over, and they haven't had any... that there was no transparency about what was found out in that investigation, no apology really about what had actually happened, and they don't really know why it happened how it was able to happen, and i think they want that investigation to continue,

and also, we have to remember things have changed now as well. the young person at the centre of this has spoken out about what happened and has subsequently said that he has felt groomed by him. you has subsequently said that he has felt groomed by him.— felt groomed by him. you were criticised at _ felt groomed by him. you were criticised at the _ felt groomed by him. you were criticised at the time _ felt groomed by him. you were criticised at the time because l felt groomed by him. you were i criticised at the time because you did not include the young man's lawyers' denial, that the whole story was rubbish. {iii lawyers' denial, that the whole story was rubbish.— lawyers' denial, that the whole story was rubbish. of course, but we made that decision _ story was rubbish. of course, but we made that decision because - story was rubbish. of course, but we made that decision because the - made that decision because the youngster is incredibly vulnerable and we knew that edwards was pressurising him to deny it. he paid him after our story broke, and after that came out, he paid him money. edwards paid the young man? yes. that came out, he paid him money. edwards paid the young man? yes, and the ouna edwards paid the young man? yes, and the young man — edwards paid the young man? yes, and the young man has _ edwards paid the young man? yes, and the young man has said _ edwards paid the young man? yes, and the young man has said that _ edwards paid the young man? yes, and the young man has said that in - edwards paid the young man? yes, and the young man has said that in an - the young man has said that in an interview. let the young man has said that in an interview. , , ., interview. let me bring in my other anellists. interview. let me bring in my other panellists. former— interview. let me bring in my other panellists. former shadow - interview. let me bring in my other panellists. former shadow culture | panellists. former shadow culture secretary thangam debonnaire, how do you think the bbc have handled this? i share my colleague lisa nandy, the

current— i share my colleague lisa nandy, the current culture secretary, her desire — current culture secretary, her desire for— current culture secretary, her desire for the salary to be repaid. i know_ desire for the salary to be repaid. i know that's what the bbc and the culture _ i know that's what the bbc and the culture secretary would like, but if we can _ culture secretary would like, but if we can zoom out a little, i think it's important we recognise culture a power— it's important we recognise culture a power imbalances. that really matters, — a power imbalances. that really matters, because in my previous role as shadow— matters, because in my previous role as shadow culture secretary, but also in _ as shadow culture secretary, but also iniohs _ as shadow culture secretary, but also injobs previously with as shadow culture secretary, but also in jobs previously with violent men: _ also in jobs previously with violent men. men — also in jobs previously with violent men, men who abuse their partners and often _ men, men who abuse their partners and often their children, they thrived — and often their children, they thrived on a culture of imbalance of power— thrived on a culture of imbalance of power which allowed them to choose to abuse _ power which allowed them to choose to abuse that power. i have known a lot of— to abuse that power. i have known a lot of powerful men, working in politics — lot of powerful men, working in politics and industry. most choose not to _ politics and industry. most choose not to abuse that power, but it matters — not to abuse that power, but it matters and people are prepared to challenge _ matters and people are prepared to challenge a culture of power imbalance or not. you have to be able _ imbalance or not. you have to be able to _ imbalance or not. you have to be able to stand up to, to resist, and help support those who feel they aren't— help support those who feel they aren't able to challenge that power imbalance. i think that is important. i think the bbc has acknowledged that to an extent in the house of lords committee inquiry last week _ the house of lords committee inquiry last week i_ the house of lords committee inquiry last week. i would like to urge them

to look— last week. i would like to urge them to look carefully at that. the culture — to look carefully at that. the culture of— to look carefully at that. the culture of celebrity, the culture of powerful — culture of celebrity, the culture of powerful men, and it is mostly, though— powerful men, and it is mostly, though not— powerful men, and it is mostly, though not always meant. it is really— though not always meant. it is really important that we resist that — that. spoiler alert: that. — spoiler alert: they have done that. spoiler alert: they have done that before. they have looked at the power imbalance with previous high profile celebrity bbc presenters. let me bring in adam. how do you think the bbc have handled this? there are questions to answer. why did they— there are questions to answer. why did they not — there are questions to answer. why did they not respond _ there are questions to answer. why did they not respond to _ there are questions to answer. why did they not respond to the - there are questions to answer. why did they not respond to the initial. did they not respond to the initial complaint — did they not respond to the initial complaint from _ did they not respond to the initial complaint from the _ did they not respond to the initial complaint from the parents - did they not respond to the initial complaint from the parents of. did they not respond to the initial| complaint from the parents of the young _ complaint from the parents of the young man? — complaint from the parents of the young man? why. _ complaint from the parents of the young man? why, after— complaint from the parents of the young man? why, after the - complaint from the parents of the young man? why, after the sun i complaint from the parents of the . young man? why, after the sun had drawn— young man? why, after the sun had drawn attention _ young man? why, after the sun had drawn attention to _ young man? why, after the sun had drawn attention to that _ young man? why, after the sun had drawn attention to that lack - young man? why, after the sun had drawn attention to that lack of - drawn attention to that lack of response. _ drawn attention to that lack of response. as _ drawn attention to that lack of response, as we _ drawn attention to that lack of response, as we clearly - drawn attention to that lack of response, as we clearlyjust . drawn attention to that lack of - response, as we clearlyjust heard from _ response, as we clearlyjust heard from scarlett. _ response, as we clearlyjust heard from scarlett, did _ response, as we clearlyjust heard from scarlett, did they— response, as we clearlyjust heard from scarlett, did they not - response, as we clearlyjust heardl from scarlett, did they not conduct adequate _ from scarlett, did they not conduct adequate inquiry? _ from scarlett, did they not conduct adequate inquiry? i— from scarlett, did they not conduct adequate inquiry? i find _ from scarlett, did they not conduct adequate inquiry? ifind it - adequate inquiry? ifind it astonishing _ adequate inquiry? ifind it astonishing at— adequate inquiry? ifind it astonishing at that - adequate inquiry? ifind it astonishing at that stagel adequate inquiry? ifind it - astonishing at that stage they did not speak— astonishing at that stage they did not speak to _ astonishing at that stage they did not speak to huw. _ astonishing at that stage they did not speak to huw. again, - astonishing at that stage they did not speak to huw. again, i- astonishing at that stage they did not speak to huw. again, i don'tl not speak to huw. again, i don't think— not speak to huw. again, i don't think any— not speak to huw. again, i don't think any commercial— not speak to huw. again, i don't. think any commercial organisation could _ think any commercial organisation could conceivably— think any commercial organisation could conceivably have _ think any commercial organisation could conceivably have gone - think any commercial organisation could conceivably have gone on. could conceivably have gone on paying — could conceivably have gone on paying huw _ could conceivably have gone on paying huw for— could conceivably have gone on paying huw for the _ could conceivably have gone on paying huw for the period - could conceivably have gone on paying huw for the period of. could conceivably have gone on. paying huw for the period of time that the _ paying huw for the period of time that the bbc_ paying huw for the period of time that the bbc did, _ paying huw for the period of time that the bbc did, let— paying huw for the period of time that the bbc did, let alone - paying huw for the period of time that the bbc did, let alone once i that the bbc did, let alone once they were — that the bbc did, let alone once they were informed, _ that the bbc did, let alone once they were informed, albeit -

that the bbc did, let alone once they were informed, albeit in. they were informed, albeit in confidence. _ they were informed, albeit in confidence, of— they were informed, albeit in confidence, of the _ they were informed, albeit in confidence, of the conditionsj they were informed, albeit in. confidence, of the conditions in which _ confidence, of the conditions in which he — confidence, of the conditions in which he had _ confidence, of the conditions in which he had been _ confidence, of the conditions in which he had been arrested, i confidence, of the conditions in. which he had been arrested, and confidence, of the conditions in l which he had been arrested, and i also think— which he had been arrested, and i also think there _ which he had been arrested, and i also think there is _ which he had been arrested, and i also think there is a _ which he had been arrested, and i also think there is a real- which he had been arrested, and i also think there is a real question| also think there is a real question here _ also think there is a real question here about — also think there is a real question here about the _ also think there is a real question here about the way _ also think there is a real question here about the way the _ also think there is a real question here about the way the bbc - also think there is a real question i here about the way the bbc handles its talent _ here about the way the bbc handles its talent 0t— here about the way the bbc handles its talent. of course, _ here about the way the bbc handles its talent. of course, there - here about the way the bbc handles its talent. of course, there was - here about the way the bbc handles its talent. of course, there was a i its talent. of course, there was a duty— its talent. of course, there was a duty of— its talent. of course, there was a duty of care — its talent. of course, there was a duty of care to _ its talent. of course, there was a duty of care to the _ its talent. of course, there was a duty of care to the people - its talent. of course, there was a l duty of care to the people actually in the _ duty of care to the people actually in the studio _ duty of care to the people actually in the studio. they— duty of care to the people actually in the studio. they were _ duty of care to the people actually in the studio. they were worried l in the studio. they were worried about— in the studio. they were worried about the — in the studio. they were worried about the way— in the studio. they were worried about the way they _ in the studio. they were worried about the way they had - in the studio. they were worried about the way they had been i in the studio. they were worried i about the way they had been treated by huw. _ about the way they had been treated by huw. and — about the way they had been treated by huw, and there _ about the way they had been treated by huw, and there should _ about the way they had been treated by huw, and there should have - about the way they had been treated by huw, and there should have beenj about the way they had been treated i by huw, and there should have been a duty of— by huw, and there should have been a duty of care _ by huw, and there should have been a duty of care to — by huw, and there should have been a duty of care to their _ by huw, and there should have been a duty of care to their parents. - by huw, and there should have been a duty of care to their parents. but i duty of care to their parents. but they also— duty of care to their parents. but they also should _ duty of care to their parents. but they also should have _ duty of care to their parents. but they also should have been - duty of care to their parents. but they also should have been a i duty of care to their parents. butl they also should have been a duty duty of care to their parents. but i they also should have been a duty of care to _ they also should have been a duty of care to huw. — they also should have been a duty of care to huw, who— they also should have been a duty of care to huw, who appears _ they also should have been a duty of care to huw, who appears to - they also should have been a duty of care to huw, who appears to have i care to huw, who appears to have been _ care to huw, who appears to have been seriously— care to huw, who appears to have been seriously spinning _ care to huw, who appears to have been seriously spinning out - care to huw, who appears to have been seriously spinning out of- been seriously spinning out of controt — been seriously spinning out of controt he _ been seriously spinning out of control. he was _ been seriously spinning out of control. he was an _ been seriously spinning out ofj control. he was an important, prominent _ control. he was an important, prominent figure _ control. he was an important, prominent figure at _ control. he was an important, prominent figure at the - control. he was an important, prominent figure at the bbc, i control. he was an important, i prominent figure at the bbc, but control. he was an important, - prominent figure at the bbc, but no one appears— prominent figure at the bbc, but no one appears to _ prominent figure at the bbc, but no one appears to have _ prominent figure at the bbc, but no one appears to have picked - prominent figure at the bbc, but no one appears to have picked up- prominent figure at the bbc, but no one appears to have picked up on. one appears to have picked up on that or— one appears to have picked up on that or talked _ one appears to have picked up on that or talked to _ one appears to have picked up on that or talked to him _ one appears to have picked up on that or talked to him or— one appears to have picked up on that or talked to him or help- one appears to have picked up on| that or talked to him or help him, andm _ that or talked to him or help him, and... �* , ., that or talked to him or help him, and... �* i. ,., and... but the duty of care is one ofthe and... but the duty of care is one of the reasons _ and... but the duty of care is one of the reasons why _ and... but the duty of care is one of the reasons why the _ and... but the duty of care is one of the reasons why the bbc i and... but the duty of care is one of the reasons why the bbc says| and... but the duty of care is one i of the reasons why the bbc says when it was informed of his arrest by the metropolitan police and the met told them to keep it confidential, they did. there was a duty of care to edwards. . . , did. there was a duty of care to edwards. . , , ., _, ,

edwards. that is duty of cover-up rather than _ edwards. that is duty of cover-up rather than duty _ edwards. that is duty of cover-up rather than duty of _ edwards. that is duty of cover-up rather than duty of care. - edwards. that is duty of cover-up rather than duty of care. you i edwards. that is duty of cover-up rather than duty of care. you may sa that, rather than duty of care. you may say that. but _ rather than duty of care. you may say that, but as _ rather than duty of care. you may say that, but as we _ rather than duty of care. you may say that, but as we know, - rather than duty of care. you may say that, but as we know, you i rather than duty of care. you may j say that, but as we know, you are innocent until proven guilty, and at that point, there was only an arrest, not a charge. i that point, there was only an arrest, not a charge.- that point, there was only an arrest, not a charge. i am not necessarily — arrest, not a charge. i am not necessarily talking _ arrest, not a charge. i am not necessarily talking about i arrest, not a charge. i am not necessarily talking about that | necessarily talking about that point — necessarily talking about that point i— necessarily talking about that point i am _ necessarily talking about that point. i am talking _ necessarily talking about that point. i am talking about- necessarily talking about that point. i am talking about thei necessarily talking about that - point. i am talking about the salary issue _ point. i am talking about the salary issue i_ point. i am talking about the salary issue ithink— point. i am talking about the salary issue. i think you _ point. i am talking about the salary issue. i think you can— point. i am talking about the salary issue. i think you can stop - point. i am talking about the salary issue. i think you can stop paying l issue. i think you can stop paying peopie _ issue. i think you can stop paying peopie if— issue. i think you can stop paying people if they _ issue. i think you can stop paying people if they reach _ issue. i think you can stop paying people if they reach a _ issue. i think you can stop paying people if they reach a point, i issue. i think you can stop paying people if they reach a point, andl issue. i think you can stop payingl people if they reach a point, and i think— people if they reach a point, and i think anyone _ people if they reach a point, and i think anyone in _ people if they reach a point, and i think anyone in a _ people if they reach a point, and i think anyone in a commercial- think anyone in a commercial organisation _ think anyone in a commercial organisation would _ think anyone in a commercial organisation would have i think anyone in a commercial| organisation would have been think anyone in a commercial- organisation would have been fired, but when _ organisation would have been fired, but when i — organisation would have been fired, but when i talk _ organisation would have been fired, but when i talk about _ organisation would have been fired, but when i talk about duty - organisation would have been fired, but when i talk about duty of - organisation would have been fired, but when i talk about duty of care, i but when i talk about duty of care, i but when i talk about duty of care, i am _ but when i talk about duty of care, i am talking — but when i talk about duty of care, i am talking about _ but when i talk about duty of care, i am talking about this _ but when i talk about duty of care, i am talking about this is- but when i talk about duty of care, i am talking about this is clearly. i am talking about this is clearly someone — i am talking about this is clearly someone who— i am talking about this is clearly someone who is _ i am talking about this is clearly someone who is now, _ i am talking about this is clearly someone who is now, we - i am talking about this is clearly- someone who is now, we understand, in a residential— someone who is now, we understand, in a residential mental— someone who is now, we understand, in a residential mental treatment, i in a residential mental treatment, who clearly. — in a residential mental treatment, who clearly. i_ in a residential mental treatment, who clearly, i didn't _ in a residential mental treatment, who clearly, i didn't know- in a residential mental treatment, who clearly, i didn't know about i in a residential mental treatment, | who clearly, i didn't know about it, i who clearly, i didn't know about it, iwasn't _ who clearly, i didn't know about it, iwasn't working _ who clearly, i didn't know about it, i wasn't working in _ who clearly, i didn't know about it, i wasn't working in the _ who clearly, i didn't know about it, i wasn't working in the bbc, - who clearly, i didn't know about it, i wasn't working in the bbc, but i who clearly, i didn't know about it, i i wasn't working in the bbc, but who iwasn't working in the bbc, but who clearly— i wasn't working in the bbc, but who clearly was _ i wasn't working in the bbc, but who clearly was causing _ i wasn't working in the bbc, but who clearly was causing some _ i wasn't working in the bbc, but whol clearly was causing some disturbance in the _ clearly was causing some disturbance in the office. — clearly was causing some disturbance in the office, who _ clearly was causing some disturbance in the office, who was _ clearly was causing some disturbance in the office, who was a _ clearly was causing some disturbance in the office, who was a very- clearly was causing some disturbance in the office, who was a very high i in the office, who was a very high profiie _ in the office, who was a very high profiie figure _ in the office, who was a very high profile figure within _ in the office, who was a very high profile figure within the _ in the office, who was a very high profile figure within the bbc, i in the office, who was a very high| profile figure within the bbc, who we now— profile figure within the bbc, who we now know. _ profile figure within the bbc, who we now know, people _ profile figure within the bbc, who we now know, people on- profile figure within the bbc, who we now know, people on social. profile figure within the bbc, who i we now know, people on social media new in— we now know, people on social media new in about — we now know, people on social media new in about some _ we now know, people on social media new in about some of— we now know, people on social media new in about some of his _ we now know, people on social media new in about some of his activities, i new in about some of his activities, yet either— new in about some of his activities, yet either the — new in about some of his activities, yet either the bbc— new in about some of his activities, yet either the bbc was _ new in about some of his activities, yet either the bbc was unaware i new in about some of his activities, yet either the bbc was unaware or. yet either the bbc was unaware or chose _ yet either the bbc was unaware or chose not — yet either the bbc was unaware or chose not to— yet either the bbc was unaware or chose not to raise _ yet either the bbc was unaware or chose not to raise it— yet either the bbc was unaware or chose not to raise it with - yet either the bbc was unaware or chose not to raise it with him i yet either the bbc was unaware or chose not to raise it with him andl chose not to raise it with him and didn't— chose not to raise it with him and didn't help — didn't help. what - didn't help. what aboutj didn't help. i what about the didn't help. -

what about the duty didn't help. _ what about the duty of dram-t ta... — what about the duty of care not just what about the duty of care notjust a huw edwards but of the current junior members of staff and former junior members of staff and former junior members of bbc staff who were encouraged to come forward and give their testimony to h this disciplinary in inquiry? that sounds like there were failings b but the person responsible for huw edwards's behaviour ishead. huw edwards. as your introduction described, the abuse took place when it happened, but also abuse continue when images are shared, when they're viewed and when they're further shared. each of those acts is a further act of victimisation. talc shared. each of those acts is a further act of victimisation. no one is excusing — further act of victimisation. no one is excusing me- — further act of victimisation. no one is excusing me. i _ further act of victimisation. no one is excusing me. i don't _ further act of victimisation. no one is excusing me. i don't want i further act of victimisation. no one is excusing me. i don't want to i further act of victimisation. no one | is excusing me. i don't want to lose si . ht. is excusing me. i don't want to lose siht. it is excusing me. i don't want to lose sight- it is — is excusing me. i don't want to lose sight. it is important _ is excusing me. i don't want to lose sight. it is important we _

is excusing me. i don't want to lose sight. it is important we do - is excusing me. i don't want to lose sight. it is important we do both i sight. it is important we do both things, a person can be responsible and he was and the institution that surrounds him may have failed to challenge the structures of power. we have to look at issues you know, you mentioned. _ we have to look at issues you know, you mentioned, jimmy— we have to look at issues you know, you mentioned, jimmy savile, - we have to look at issues you know, | you mentioned, jimmy savile, stuart hall. you mentioned, jimmy savile, stuart halt there _ you mentioned, jimmy savile, stuart halt there are — you mentioned, jimmy savile, stuart hall. there are other— you mentioned, jimmy savile, stuart hall. there are other people - you mentioned, jimmy savile, stuart hall. there are other people at - you mentioned, jimmy savile, stuart hall. there are other people at the i hall. there are other people at the bbc who— hall. there are other people at the bbc who were _ hall. there are other people at the bbc who were caught _ hall. there are other people at the bbc who were caught up _ hall. there are other people at the bbc who were caught up in- hall. there are other people at the bbc who were caught up in me i hall. there are other people at the bbc who were caught up in me too| hall. there are other people at the i bbc who were caught up in me too and you have _ bbc who were caught up in me too and you have to— bbc who were caught up in me too and you have to ask— bbc who were caught up in me too and you have to ask why— bbc who were caught up in me too and you have to ask why this _ bbc who were caught up in me too and you have to ask why this has _ you have to ask why this has happened _ you have to ask why this has happened-— you have to ask why this has ha ened. �* ., ., ., ., happened. i'm going to ask that auestion happened. i'm going to ask that question of— happened. i'm going to ask that question of alan _ happened. i'm going to ask that question of alan yentob - happened. i'm going to ask that question of alan yentob in i happened. i'm going to ask that question of alan yentob in a - happened. i'm going to ask that - question of alan yentob in a moment. the bbc director general tim davie appeared before the lords communication committee last week. he had this to say about the decision he took when told by the met that huw edwards had been arrested in november on suspicion of making child abuse images. as i said, it wasn't an easy decision. it was really difficult getting the balance right, because you knew that the arrest had been made, you knew there were no charges. in that, yeah, you take advice and you can always take risk by the way. you can take risk in these situations and go against your policies. being blunt, you can take the risk.

also there might be legal risks in that. there also might be significant welfare risks. because you have also got vulnerable individuals. we asked tim davie for an interview tonight — it was declined. let's speak to someone who knows what the thinking is at the top of bbc management, you're in the director general�*s office pretty regularly, former bbc controller alan yentob. thank you for being with us. do you think the bbc could have done things differently? l think the bbc could have done things differentl ? ., �* ~' , differently? i don't think there is an sense differently? i don't think there is any sense of— differently? i don't think there is any sense of complacency - differently? i don't think there is any sense of complacency in - differently? i don't think there is any sense of complacency in the | differently? i don't think there is - any sense of complacency in the bbc about what has been going on. it is notjust a question of a duty of care, there is a responsibility that the bbc has acknowledged. you heard what the board had to say and there were legal obligations as well. the bbc has also now set up a working party to look at the culture of the bbc. it is looking very carefully at the complaint system. so there is no

way that it is not taking this seriously. i way that it is not taking this seriously-— way that it is not taking this seriousl . ., , ., ., ., seriously. i will ask you again, could they _ seriously. i will ask you again, could they have _ seriously. i will ask you again, could they have done - seriously. i will ask you again, could they have done anything differently?— could they have done anything differentl ? , . ., . ~ ., differently? they have acknowledged there is a learning _ differently? they have acknowledged there is a learning curve _ differently? they have acknowledged there is a learning curve there. - there is a learning curve there. when huw edwards was suspended, the question is should he have been paid? and i think tim and the board are thinking about well, in future we know something like this has happened, should that person be paid and they're now addressing that question of payment. there are lawyers around and obligations and the rest of it.— the rest of it. when the met informed — the rest of it. when the met informed managers - the rest of it. when the met informed managers that - the rest of it. when the met | informed managers that huw the rest of it. when the met - informed managers that huw edwards was arrested, what did the bbc do then? �* �* , u, , was arrested, what did the bbc do then? �* �* , u, , ., then? the bbc very carefully and with very few _ then? the bbc very carefully and with very few people, _ then? the bbc very carefully and with very few people, but - then? the bbc very carefully and with very few people, but senior| with very few people, but senior figures, looked at the obligations they had. the police said that they could not pronounce on this. they have been instructed to and i noticed victoria newton, the editor of the sun said she had a sense this

was going on and they approached the police and the police refuse toad comment. == police and the police refuse toad comment. , ., _, comment. -- refused to comment. it sounds like — comment. -- refused to comment. it sounds like the _ comment. -- refused to comment. it sounds like the bbc _ comment. -- refused to comment. it sounds like the bbc didn't _ comment. -- refused to comment. it sounds like the bbc didn't do - sounds like the bbc didn't do anything. what do you mean. they were instructed by the bbc, sorry the bbc were instructed by the met that they were not to say anything about this. so the bbc... they did nothing. ih about this. so the bbc... they did nothinu. , ., ., ., about this. so the bbc... they did nothin. _ , ., ., ., 4' , nothing. h they were told to do keep cuiet. the nothing. h they were told to do keep quiet- they were _ nothing. h they were told to do keep quiet. they were already _ nothing. h they were told to do keep quiet. they were already suspended l quiet. they were already suspended and they were told they could not comment on this. the bbc had experience i will acknowledge a failing, with the cliff richard case when they pronounced on that before there was a court case. they know there was a court case. they know there is a risk and they have to obey the law. 50 did the sun. the sun were told by the police that they could not go there and they

didn't go there.— they could not go there and they didn't go there. which weren't told an hina. didn't go there. which weren't told anything- we _ didn't go there. which weren't told anything. we weren't _ didn't go there. which weren't told anything. we weren't told - didn't go there. which weren't told anything. we weren't told we - anything. we weren't told we couldn't— anything. we weren't told we couldn't go there. you anything. we weren't told we couldn't go there.— anything. we weren't told we couldn't go there. you were told, they were — couldn't go there. you were told, they were not _ couldn't go there. you were told, they were not prepared _ couldn't go there. you were told, they were not prepared to - couldn't go there. you were told, - they were not prepared to comment. victoria decided she would not comment. victoria decided she would not comment-— victoria decided she would not comment. ~ . ., . ., comment. what about current and 'unior comment. what about current and junior members — comment. what about current and junior members of— comment. what about current and junior members of staff _ comment. what about current and junior members of staff who - comment. what about current and junior members of staff who gave | junior members of staff who gave testimony, they have said they haven't heard anything. i testimony, they have said they haven't heard anything.- testimony, they have said they haven't heard anything. i can't say much about _ haven't heard anything. i can't say much about that, _ haven't heard anything. i can't say much about that, because - haven't heard anything. i can't say much about that, because i'm - haven't heard anything. i can't say much about that, because i'm not| much about that, because i'm not involved in that. but much about that, because i'm not involved in that.— involved in that. but they haven't been told anything _ involved in that. but they haven't been told anything and _ involved in that. but they haven't been told anything and it - involved in that. but they haven't been told anything and it doesn't| been told anything and it doesn't sound like they will ever find out the outcome.— the outcome. they haven't gone ublic. the outcome. they haven't gone public i'm _ the outcome. they haven't gone public. i'm sure _ the outcome. they haven't gone public. i'm sure they _ the outcome. they haven't gone public. i'm sure they have - the outcome. they haven't gone public. i'm sure they have been| public. i'm sure they have been spoken to. public. i'm sure they have been spoken to-_ public. i'm sure they have been spoken to. public. i'm sure they have been soken to. ,, . , , ., spoken to. seem have, but they have not had feedback. _ spoken to. seem have, but they have not had feedback. i _ spoken to. seem have, but they have not had feedback. i can't _ spoken to. seem have, but they have not had feedback. i can't comment. l spoken to. seem have, but they have not had feedback. i can't comment. i | not had feedback. i can't comment. i haven't heard- _ not had feedback. i can't comment. i haven't heard. it _ not had feedback. i can't comment. i haven't heard. it has _ not had feedback. i can't comment. i haven't heard. it has been _ not had feedback. i can't comment. i haven't heard. it has been overtaken i haven't heard. it has been overtaken by this terrible event and this... the people who took that difficult decision for some to speak to hr, to tell them, the way they felt they were treatmented treated by huw

edwards they have heard nothing. hurst edwards they have heard nothing. huw edwards they have heard nothing. him edwards had been edwards they have heard nothing. hun" edwards had been suspended. i can't answer that, edwards had been suspended. i can't answerthat, because edwards had been suspended. i can't answer that, because i don't know the details. answer that, because i don't know the details-— the details. you might have a oinion. the details. you might have a opinion- has— the details. you might have a opinion. has the _ the details. you might have a opinion. has the bbc- the details. you might have a opinion. has the bbc really . the details. you might have a - opinion. has the bbc really learned the lesson from stuart hall and jimmy savile? because i looked back at the conclusion of damejanet smith report into the abuse byjimmy savile and hall. she said, it is incumbents on the bbc to examine its culture when it comes to the fear of staff speaking out and its attitude to top on air staff. that was eight years ago. it has not learned that lesson. do you agree? h0. years ago. it has not learned that lesson. do you agree?— years ago. it has not learned that lesson. do you agree? no, ithink there has been _ lesson. do you agree? no, ithink there has been progress, - lesson. do you agree? no, ithink there has been progress, but - lesson. do you agree? no, i think. there has been progress, but maybe not enough. the bbc is readdressing that issue. it is not enough. the bbc is readdressing that issue. , , , not enough. the bbc is readdressing that issue-_ it i that issue. it is the same issue. it is, but it

that issue. it is the same issue. it is. but it has— that issue. it is the same issue. it is, but it has not _ that issue. it is the same issue. it is, but it has not been _ that issue. it is the same issue. it is, but it has not been ignored - that issue. it is the same issue. it| is, but it has not been ignored and these circumstances... it is, but it has not been ignored and these circumstances. . ._ these circumstances... it has in this case- _ these circumstances... it has in this case. you say _ these circumstances... it has in this case. you say it has - this case. you say it has been ignored- _ this case. you say it has been ignored. i don't _ this case. you say it has been ignored. idon't agree. i- this case. you say it has been l ignored. idon't agree. ithink it ignored. i don't agree. i think it has been addressed, but there are lessons to be learned. do has been addressed, but there are lessons to be learned.— has been addressed, but there are lessons to be learned. do you know when the report _ lessons to be learned. do you know when the report into _ lessons to be learned. do you know when the report into the _ lessons to be learned. do you know when the report into the dj - lessons to be learned. do you know when the report into the dj tim - when the report into the dj tim westwood will be published. he was accused of sexual misconduct, the bbc announced an inquiry into him do years ago. where is it? i bbc announced an inquiry into him do years ago. where is it?— years ago. where is it? i don't know, years ago. where is it? i don't know. but _ years ago. where is it? i don't know, but there _ years ago. where is it? i don't know, but there are _ years ago. where is it? i don't know, but there are two - years ago. where is it? i don't| know, but there are two cases, years ago. where is it? i don't - know, but there are two cases, the russell brand case and the tim westwood case. the russell brand case and the tim westwood case.— russell brand case and the tim westwood case. , . , westwood case. the c] has given her re ort to westwood case. the c] has given her report to the — westwood case. the c] has given her report to the bbc. _ westwood case. the c] has given her report to the bbc. |_ westwood case. the c] has given her report to the bbc. i don't _ westwood case. the c] has given her report to the bbc. i don't know - westwood case. the c] has given her report to the bbc. i don't know the l report to the bbc. i don't know the timin: for report to the bbc. i don't know the timing for that, _ report to the bbc. i don't know the timing for that, i'm _ report to the bbc. i don't know the timing for that, i'm sure _ report to the bbc. i don't know the timing for that, i'm sure it - report to the bbc. i don't know the timing for that, i'm sure it will - report to the bbc. i don't know the timing for that, i'm sure it will be i timing for that, i'm sure it will be responded to. d0 timing for that, i'm sure it will be responded to-_ timing for that, i'm sure it will be resonded to. ,, , . ., , responded to. do you expect it to be ublished? responded to. do you expect it to be published? yes. _ responded to. do you expect it to be published? yes. right. _ responded to. do you expect it to be published? yes. right. we - responded to. do you expect it to be published? yes. right. we are - responded to. do you expect it to be i published? yes. right. we are going to come published? 1913 right. we are going to come back published? 19:3 right. we are going to come back too published? i9; right. we are going to come back too you in a moment. we are going to brighton in a second. sorry. alan yentob says that the bbc couldn't have done that much

differently. do you accept that? ida. differently. do you accept that? no, bein: the differently. do you accept that? no, being the person who has been through— being the person who has been through this so closely with the famiiy— through this so closely with the famiiy i— through this so closely with the family i would say they could do something differently. they didn't take the _ something differently. they didn't take the family seriously at all. and neither did they take the family seriousiy— and neither did they take the family seriously until huw edwards was arrested — seriously until huw edwards was arrested. ,:, . ., seriously until huw edwards was arrested. . ., . ., arrested. the police made clear there was _ arrested. the police made clear there was no — arrested. the police made clear there was no criminal _ arrested. the police made clear there was no criminal offence. i arrested. the police made clear i there was no criminal offence. the bbc waited for that report and it was given. it is not 20 say they did nothing because of... d0 was given. it is not 20 say they did nothing because of. . ._ nothing because of... do you not think an abuse _ nothing because of... do you not think an abuse of _ nothing because of... do you not think an abuse of power, - nothing because of... do you not l think an abuse of power, grooming and paying — think an abuse of power, grooming and paying somebody... but think an abuse of power, grooming and paying somebody. . ._ think an abuse of power, grooming and paying somebody... but he was suspended- — and paying somebody... but he was suspended- i'm _ and paying somebody... but he was suspended. i'm talking _ and paying somebody... but he was suspended. i'm talking about - and paying somebody... but he was suspended. i'm talking about the i suspended. i'm talking about the actual investigation, _ suspended. i'm talking about the actual investigation, the - suspended. i'm talking about the actual investigation, the actual i actual investigation, the actual investigation was not... as you know, investigation was not... as you know. the _ investigation was not... as you know, the victim _ investigation was not... as you know, the victim of _ investigation was not... as you know, the victim of this, - investigation was not... as you know, the victim of this, at - investigation was not... as you | know, the victim of this, at this stage, was actually defending it and refusing to acknowledge. we stage, was actually defending it and refusing to acknowledge.— refusing to acknowledge. we don't know if the bbc _ refusing to acknowledge. we don't know if the bbc spoke _ refusing to acknowledge. we don't know if the bbc spoke to - refusing to acknowledge. we don't know if the bbc spoke to the - refusing to acknowledge. we don't i know if the bbc spoke to the victim.

in publication, lawyers, i don't know if they represented huw edwards and the victim, were trying to stop it. so it was a complex situation. there was an abundance of evidence. iwonder— there was an abundance of evidence. i wonder if— there was an abundance of evidence. i wonder if you know why the bbc didn't— i wonder if you know why the bbc didn't take — i wonder if you know why the bbc didn't take seriously— i wonder if you know why the bbc didn't take seriously the - i wonder if you know why the bbcl didn't take seriously the complaint and when — didn't take seriously the complaint and when the _ didn't take seriously the complaint and when the sun— didn't take seriously the complaint and when the sun spoke _ didn't take seriously the complaint and when the sun spoke to, - didn't take seriously the complaint and when the sun spoke to, they. and when the sun spoke to, they didn't— and when the sun spoke to, they didn't speak _ and when the sun spoke to, they didn't speak to _ and when the sun spoke to, they didn't speak to huw_ and when the sun spoke to, they didn't speak to huw edwards. - and when the sun spoke to, theyl didn't speak to huw edwards. the and when the sun spoke to, they didn't speak to huw edwards. the bbc re orted it. didn't speak to huw edwards. the bbc reported it. this _ didn't speak to huw edwards. the bbc reported it. this is _ didn't speak to huw edwards. the bbc reported it. this is misconduct. - didn't speak to huw edwards. the bbc reported it. this is misconduct. it - reported it. this is misconduct. it is not about _ reported it. this is misconduct. it is not about criminality, - reported it. this is misconduct. it is not about criminality, the - reported it. this is misconduct. it is not about criminality, the bar. is not about criminality, the bar was about— is not about criminality, the bar was about allegations _ is not about criminality, the bar was about allegations of- is not about criminality, the bar was about allegations of bad i was about allegations of bad behavioun _ was about allegations of bad behaviour. we _ was about allegations of bad behaviour. we as _ was about allegations of bad behaviour. we as journalistsi was about allegations of bad i behaviour. we asjournalists have in all sort _ behaviour. we asjournalists have in all sort of— behaviour. we asjournalists have in all sort of walks _ behaviour. we asjournalists have in all sort of walks of _ behaviour. we asjournalists have in all sort of walks of life _ behaviour. we asjournalists have in all sort of walks of life have - all sort of walks of life have exposed _ all sort of walks of life have exposed people _ all sort of walks of life have exposed people for- all sort of walks of life have exposed people for bad i all sort of walks of life have i exposed people for bad behaviour that falls — exposed people for bad behaviour that falls short _ exposed people for bad behaviour that falls short of _ exposed people for bad behaviour that falls short of criminality. i exposed people for bad behaviour that falls short of criminality. forl that falls short of criminality. for ou to that falls short of criminality. for you to talk _ that falls short of criminality. you to talk about commercial organisations when the story of news corporation in relation to hacking

has been to extreme. bud corporation in relation to hacking has been to extreme. and has been fully reported _ has been to extreme. and has been fully reported on sky _ has been to extreme. and has been fully reported on sky news. only i fully reported on sky news. only after a long time. _ fully reported on sky news. only after a long time. no at i fully reported on sky news. only| after a long time. no at the time. ahead of the _ after a long time. no at the time. ahead of the sac. _ after a long time. no at the time. ahead of the sac. what - after a long time. no at the time. ahead of the sac. what is - after a long time. no at the time. ahead of the sac. what is the - ahead of the bbc. what is the points, — ahead of the bbc. what is the points, the _ ahead of the bbc. what is the points, the point— ahead of the bbc. what is the points, the point is— ahead of the bbc. what is the points, the point is there i ahead of the bbc. what is the points, the point is there is i points, the point is there is a structural— points, the point is there is a structural point— points, the point is there is a structural point with - points, the point is there is a structural point with the i points, the point is there is a| structural point with the bbc, points, the point is there is a i structural point with the bbc, when an allegation — structural point with the bbc, when an allegation is _ structural point with the bbc, when an allegation is made _ structural point with the bbc, when an allegation is made against i an allegation is made against individuals— an allegation is made against individuals working _ an allegation is made against individuals working for i an allegation is made against individuals working for you, l an allegation is made against i individuals working for you, you take _ individuals working for you, you take it — individuals working for you, you take it as— individuals working for you, you take it as an _ individuals working for you, you take it as an insult _ individuals working for you, you take it as an insult to _ individuals working for you, you take it as an insult to the i individuals working for you, you take it as an insult to the bbc. i take it as an insult to the bbc. whereas— take it as an insult to the bbc. whereas in— take it as an insult to the bbc. whereas in commercial- take it as an insult to the bbc. i whereas in commercial organisations they see _ whereas in commercial organisations they see it _ whereas in commercial organisations they see it as — whereas in commercial organisations they see it as a — whereas in commercial organisations they see it as a liability— whereas in commercial organisations they see it as a liability the - whereas in commercial organisations they see it as a liability the they i they see it as a liability the they have _ they see it as a liability the they have to — they see it as a liability the they have to deal— they see it as a liability the they have to deal with. _ they see it as a liability the they have to deal with. no, _ they see it as a liability the they have to deal with.— they see it as a liability the they have to deal with. no, the bbc has made two decisions _ have to deal with. no, the bbc has made two decisions with. .. i have to deal with. no, the bbc has made two decisions with. .. jay i made two decisions with. .. jay blades. made two decisions with. .. jay blades- and — made two decisions with. .. jay blades. and they _ made two decisions with. .. jay blades. and they have i made two decisions with. .. jay blades. and they have taken l made two decisions with. .. jay i blades. and they have taken action. the have blades. and they have taken action. they have learned _ blades. and they have taken action. they have learned something. i blades. and they have taken action. i they have learned something. thangam debbonaire, they have learned something. thangam debbonaire. can — they have learned something. thangam debbonaire, can i— they have learned something. thangam debbonaire, can i ask _ they have learned something. thangam debbonaire, can i ask you _ they have learned something. thangam debbonaire, can i ask you about i they have learned something. thangam debbonaire, can i ask you about the i debbonaire, can i ask you about the sentence, there is anger online as what you described as the leniency of the sentence and the parents of young man do. i'm so angry, he has got away with it. it is a disgrace

and an insult to every victim. people compare it to those who wrote horrible things on facebook during the riots and have beenjailed for 12 and 15 months. they were not i2 and 15 months. they were not given n suspended sentences. ichild given n suspended sentences. child abuse is so — given n suspended sentences. child abuse is so rife _ given n suspended sentences. child abuse is so rife that _ given n suspended sentences. child abuse is so rife that we _ given n suspended sentences. child abuse is so rife that we are drawing attention— abuse is so rife that we are drawing attention to — abuse is so rife that we are drawing attention to it, because it is someone _ attention to it, because it is someone who is well known and been in our— someone who is well known and been in our living _ someone who is well known and been in our living rooms. this is an opportunities for us to look harder at whether— opportunities for us to look harder at whether sentencing guidelines should _ at whether sentencing guidelines should be re—examined. many of us will feel— should be re—examined. many of us will feel the — should be re—examined. many of us will feel the anger. we were not in the courtroom and didn't hear what was put _ the courtroom and didn't hear what was put forward as mitigating circumstances. but the message that sendses— circumstances. but the message that sendses to _ circumstances. but the message that sendses to victims is not great. do ou sendses to victims is not great. you think sendses to victims is not great. dr? you think guidelines should be looked at. i you think guidelines should be looked at. .. , looked at. i think there will be wider calls _ looked at. i think there will be wider calls for _ looked at. i think there will be wider calls for that. _ looked at. i think there will be wider calls for that. it i looked at. i think there will be wider calls for that. it is i looked at. i think there will be wider calls for that. it is not i looked at. i think there will be i wider calls for that. it is not the only— wider calls for that. it is not the

only problem here. the wider problem is one _ only problem here. the wider problem is one in— only problem here. the wider problem is one in 20 _ only problem here. the wider problem is one in 20 children is likely to have _ is one in 20 children is likely to have been— is one in 20 children is likely to have been abused. that is a lot of children — have been abused. that is a lot of children. most of the cases are not getting _ children. most of the cases are not getting dealt with and i think that is a bigger problem, because we have the sharing _ is a bigger problem, because we have the sharing of those images, it is a growing _ the sharing of those images, it is a growing problem, through whatsapp and other— growing problem, through whatsapp and other media, that is a big problem — and other media, that is a big problem and the sentencing guidelines is part of that, but there — guidelines is part of that, but there is— guidelines is part of that, but there is a _ guidelines is part of that, but there is a failure of the criminal justice — there is a failure of the criminal justice system. | there is a failure of the criminal justice system.— justice system. i think that is a fair point- _ time for some politics. the liberal democrats are in brighton this week for their annual conference and nick is there. we are two and a half months on from the general election, where the liberal democrats had a successful result. 72 mps, up from 11. the mood is very upbeat. but the question is where does this party go now? at the moment they seem to be positioning themselves to the left of labour, to themselves to the left of labour, to the left on winter fuel and on how

you fund the nhs. earlier i caught up you fund the nhs. earlier i caught up with dazy coop er and said are you following in the foot steps of charles kennedy, who went to the left of labour, or will you follow nick clegg, who went to the right of labour? brute nick clegg, who went to the right of labour? ~ . . nick clegg, who went to the right of labour? ~ . :, , ., nick clegg, who went to the right of labour? ~ . . , ., ., , labour? we are a liberal party, we are not going _ labour? we are a liberal party, we are not going to — labour? we are a liberal party, we are not going to define _ labour? we are a liberal party, we are not going to define ourselves i are not going to define ourselves as left or— are not going to define ourselves as left or right. we think labour is getting — left or right. we think labour is getting it — left or right. we think labour is getting it wrong we will say so. we have been— getting it wrong we will say so. we have been setting out our policies on the _ have been setting out our policies on the nhs and right now we want to say to— on the nhs and right now we want to say to the _ on the nhs and right now we want to say to the government, we know you have the _ say to the government, we know you have the budget coming up, we want the budget— have the budget coming up, we want the budget to be one to save the nhsi _ the budget to be one to save the nhs, take our ideas and we will support— nhs, take our ideas and we will support you. if we don't see the urgency— support you. if we don't see the urgency or— support you. if we don't see the urgency or ambition, we will hold you to _ urgency or ambition, we will hold you to account.—

you to account. earlier, daisy coo-er you to account. earlier, daisy cooper gave _ you to account. earlier, daisy cooper gave an _ you to account. earlier, daisy cooper gave an account i you to account. earlier, daisy cooper gave an account of. you to account. earlier, daisy| cooper gave an account of the you to account. earlier, daisy i cooper gave an account of the impact of crohn's disease on her. she was told she would have four days to live, unless she had surgery. she said how the nhs saved her life and now the liberal democrats are campaigning on the pressures on the nhs. so campaigning on the pressures on the nhs. 50 i campaigning on the pressures on the nhs. so i said to her, did she believe if somebody was in her condition now they would receive the same level of care that she received 12 years ago? i same level of care that she received 12 years ago?— 12 years ago? i am concerned and i said in my — 12 years ago? i am concerned and i said in my speech, _ 12 years ago? i am concerned and i said in my speech, i— 12 years ago? i am concerned and i said in my speech, i think i 12 years ago? i am concerned and i said in my speech, i think about. 12 years ago? i am concerned and i said in my speech, i think about a l said in my speech, i think about a young _ said in my speech, i think about a young person who might be having the same symptoms and they may not be able to— same symptoms and they may not be able to see _ same symptoms and they may not be able to see a gp to get the test they— able to see a gp to get the test they may— able to see a gp to get the test they may need too rule out other conditions — they may need too rule out other conditions. i worry that the scanners_ conditions. i worry that the scanners that were used, that were used _ scanners that were used, that were used on _ scanners that were used, that were used on me. — scanners that were used, that were used on me, may not be up—to—date, may not— used on me, may not be up—to—date, may not be _ used on me, may not be up—to—date, may not be efficient and maybe the staff are _ may not be efficient and maybe the staff are overstretched and wouldn't have the _ staff are overstretched and wouldn't have the time that staff had with me when _ have the time that staff had with me when they— have the time that staff had with me when they sit down and hold your hand _ when they sit down and hold your hand and — when they sit down and hold your

hand and reassure you and explain the disease and how it is