exploding pagers and now walkie—talkies across lebanon. israel says they're opening a new phase in the war. what's their strategy? and more leaks from whitehall, with a bbc story on sue gray's pay. what's going on behind the door of number 10?

welcome to newsnight, live each night with insight and interviews. our panel — david yelland, the presenter of the hit podcast about crisis management, when it hits the fan. david's a former editor of the sun. also political commentator tom harwood. and it wouldn't be newsnight without nick watt, our political editor. tonight, he's got fresh intelligence on divisions in the number 10 operation. but first, we're going to look at israel's strategy following the exploding walkie—talkies in lebanon. yesterday, we covered the story about the exploding pagers. multiple sources say mossad, the israeli spy agency, was targeting hezbollah fighters.

daniel levy is a former official negotiator for the israeli government in peace talks with the palestinians — he's now critical of the current government. but first, what did the americans know about these attacks? speaking in egypt today, us secretary of state anthony blinken had this to say. the united states did not know about, nor was it involved in these incidents. we are still gathering the information and gathering the facts. broadly speaking, we have been very clear, and we remain very clear about the importance of all parties avoiding any steps that could further escalate the conflict that we are trying to resolve in gaza, to see it spread to other fronts. daniel, what is the significance of what has happened today, bearing in mind it comes after yesterday's round of explosions via pagers?

well, in terms of the technology, it is too early to say. but this is of course approaching a year where the lebanese border has been a very hot border. it has not escalated into all—out war between israel and hezbollah. this is going to have impacted hezbollah�*s capacity. they are going to have to investigate how this was infiltrated. some of their operatives are not going to be available. if israel were looking for conditions to escalate this to a full—scale strike on hezbollah, this has perhaps created those conditions. it is a risky business going to war with hezbollah. so they may be looking at it like that. but this could be, rest on your laurels, israel has done this now and it answers the internal demand. but the other significance, which is really important to remember, goes beyond the israel lebanon arena. this is a new type of warfare. we see mass maimings. this has clearly hit civilians.

it feels like the textbook definition of terrorising people. if you look at that off the back of what has gone on in gaza, the arrest warrants requested at the international criminal court for starvation as a weapon of war, what the international court ofjustice says is a plausible genocide, what this means for how war is conducted, that israel can get away with this, raises a whole new set of questions. i mean, it is incredibly audacious, there is no doubt about it and they are going, the israelis, for the communications at the heart of hezbollah, which is deemed a terrorist organisation by israel, the uk and the us. what do you think israel's strategy is here? do they want to escalate this? it is a really interesting question and you are not the only one asking it today. that is the military commentators, the strategic analysts that i am following in israel, are asking that question, because they are saying, look, yeah, audacious, israel is great at these pyrotechnics.

this was significant. but what is israel trying to achieve? it looks more tactical than strategic. now, benjamin netanyahu, of course, want to keep his domestic political coalition together. he wants to revive himself as the essential wartime leader. so he wants to continue the war, the gaza front, the west bank front, which is intensifying, lebanon, but what is the bigger goal here? people in israel and elsewhere are asking, 0k, warfare, diplomacy, politics by other means, but what is your political and diplomatic goal? there doesn't appear to be one on the horizon beyond more war. and there is of course always the risk that that decision about escalation goes out of israel and benjamin netanyahu's hands, because what are hezbollah and perhaps iran, who sponsor them, what is their reaction going to be? well, indeed. you would imagine that israel went into this prepared for this to lead to a much greater escalation. now, hezbollah is faced with a dilemma. on the one hand, this

is a provocation. can it go unanswered? on the other, the least auspicious of circumstances, right now, in the immediate term, for hezbollah to respond, they are going to have to find out what happened. they have got a lot of people who are not available, i would imagine, for an escalation right now. iran probably looks at this, and we have seen over the last months, there is really very little question in the analyst community that iran is not seeking an escalation. they feel this would be to fall into a trap. but they see hezbollah as quite an important part of their defensive deterrence posture, vis—a—vis israel. if they think this might be hezbollah, to some extent taken out of the game, they may feel a need to intervene. i must say, we are not seeing signs of this yet. hassan nasrallah, the leader of hezbollah, is due to address lebanon tomorrow and let's

also remember, hezbollah is a political movement, notjust an armed resistance. this may well have unified people in lebanon much more than in the past. and both hezbollah and iran are looking at this and saying, you know what? do we have to respond at a time when israel has been scoring own goals? because what israel has done over these last months, as it has conducted this devastation on gaza, has lost a lot of that diplomatic, political standing, its economy, legally. so israel is quite divided and in a certain amount of trouble. so maybe just allow it to continue doing that. on that, what is the public reaction in israel? benjamin netanyahu is quite a divisive figure. he has been, although of course, the population unified behind him in the aftermath of the october 7th massacre. but now, in response to this, what has been the reaction? so i think what one would expect and i think is going to

be borne out, is there is a sugar high, right? this is great. but the extent of the internal polarisation is not going to go away. and so what you are seeing and will see is the protest movement that is saying, ok, you pulled this off but what is the next step? is this going to allow the displaced residents from israel's north, who have been away from their homes, are they going to be able to move back as a consequence of this? will this bring back the israelis being held in gaza? this clearly isn't going to make a ceasefire or a deal any more likely. so that polarisation inside israel, which is not about feeling sorry for palestinians or lebanese, but it is about which direction israel is going in, and what you are seeing in israel, and there were news reports coming outjust in advance of this potential escalation in lebanon, is there is a degree of exhaustion in the military. elite units are saying, we can't serve any more reserve duty.

so that division which weakens israel is still there. what about iran and israel? the two of them as foes, what happens to that relationship? right, so iran and israel had a very unusual direct exchange of military fire, of missiles, in april. but it did not escalate into all—out war. i think the best way to understand that relationship, iran is reticent about falling into what it sees as a trap. the best way to understand that relationship is if you bring in the third leg, which is the us. it has long been considered that what benjamin netanyahu is keen on is to have america brought into a fight with iran. now, the administration has not shown any interest in that. it hasn't shown a great interest in achieving a ceasefire in gaza because they have not used any of the leverage they have.

but this is the thing they have wanted to avoid. we are now less than 50 days out from an election, definitely something that the biden/harris administration, ticket would want to avoid. but they have placed themselves in a trap of their own making and israel knows that. israel knows that america may be saying, hey, don't escalate further, but when israel says, are you going to give us the weapons? the us is still going to do that. and again, i think iran can look at this and say, the world, public opinion is more mobilised than ever against israel. maybe we don't have to do more, especially on a day when you saw the united nations vote to codify a decision of the international court ofjustice from the 19th ofjuly that israel's occupation is illegal and israel needs to be placed under sanctions. so that is the bigger picture. daniel levy, thank you very much. so a row has broken out within government after the prime minister's chief of staff

is given a pay rise. it's more leaks from whitehall. what does it tell us about what's going on behind the door of number 10? nick, tom harwood and david yelland are with me. first of all, nick, a bit of background, sue gray was the top civil servant who wrote that infamous report about parties at downing street during the pandemic under borisjohnson. she has been brought into government and she is keir starmer director chief of staff and we now know she is going to be paid more than the prime minister. what have you been finding out in westminster? irate what have you been finding out in westminster?— what have you been finding out in westminster? ~ ., ., , , westminster? we know that, because our colleague — westminster? we know that, because our colleague chris _ westminster? we know that, because our colleague chris mason _ westminster? we know that, because our colleague chris mason reported i our colleague chris mason reported that at lunchtime and i understand that at lunchtime and i understand that storaway went —— story went off like a stink bomb in no 10, because it was seen this is hostile briefing against sue gray. as i understand it this has gone all the way to the

top. the cabinet secretary simon case has been called in to look at this. but the view is there is only one person who can sort it out and thatis one person who can sort it out and that is keir starmer. how did we get here? there was a recent review of the top two bands of special advise ors' pay. that involves sue gray and thatis ors' pay. that involves sue gray and that is how she is earns more than the prime minister. i understand there will now be a review of the other bands, the morejunior people and there has been resentment from those further down the bands, they're saying, we have had a pay cut from what we earned in opposition and when they raised these concerns with sue gray in the last few months, she wasn't helpful. all they heard was this is the system. when they came into government, it is getting chaotic, they were put on a pending band and then put into a formal band. the salary was lower than their labour salary. and then they found out,

because they talk to each other, they were earning less than the people who had done thatjob in the conservative government. the reason for that is that the bands were the same, the bands haven't been changed for a decade and what the tories had done is with allowances they sort of got the salaries up a bit. this review will be done by the civil service, but sue gray is involved. does it sound like everyone is at each other�*s throats at no 10 when it comes to issues of pay and hierarchy? it it comes to issues of pay and hierarchy?— it comes to issues of pay and hierarchy? it does sound very dysfunctional _ hierarchy? it does sound very dysfunctional and _ hierarchy? it does sound very dysfunctional and it _ hierarchy? it does sound very dysfunctional and it looks - hierarchy? it does sound veryj dysfunctional and it looks like hierarchy? it does sound very - dysfunctional and it looks like we have two camps in downing street. on the one hand we have got those who were on the long march through opposition into government. that is led by morgan mcsweyny. then the professional blow in who came in, thatis professional blow in who came in, that is sue gray. i'm not

necessarily saying these the views of these people. so the anti—sue gray say she held down salaries, there were people who didn't get jobs when they came into government. she didn't are the decency to phone them up and say sorry. and i'm told sue gray control freakery over access to keir starmer. the pro—sue gray camp, they regard the briefings against her as vitriolic. she is upset and not taking it well. her view with the special advisors is she had to professionalise them for government. there was some people, you're fine in opposition, you're not so good in government, so you can't have a job going into government. some of her supporters say a problem, she doesn't suffer fools gladly and the view is she can sometimes be a little holier than thou on pay. sometimes be a little holier than thou on pay-— thou on pay. don't these things alwa s thou on pay. don't these things always go _ thou on pay. don't these things always go on — thou on pay. don't these things always go on at _ thou on pay. don't these things always go on at the _ thou on pay. don't these things

always go on at the top - thou on pay. don't these things always go on at the top of- always go on at the top of government and particularly at no 10, this tension that exists between personnel. does it matter the top aide is being paid more than the prime minister? i aide is being paid more than the prime minister?— aide is being paid more than the prime minister? i don't think that matters, prime minister? i don't think that matters. but _ prime minister? i don't think that matters, but everything - prime minister? i don't think that matters, but everything that - prime minister? i don't think that matters, but everything that nickj matters, but everything that nick has been — matters, but everything that nick has been talking about does matter, that it _ has been talking about does matter, that it has _ has been talking about does matter, that it has been leaked. there are 15 or— that it has been leaked. there are 15 or 16 _ that it has been leaked. there are 15 or 16 people in downing street that earu— 15 or 16 people in downing street that earn more than the prime minister— that earn more than the prime minister and that earn more than the prime ministerand a lot that earn more than the prime minister and a lot of other people in public— minister and a lot of other people in public service that earn more. that— in public service that earn more. that is_ in public service that earn more. that is not— in public service that earn more. that is not the issue. it may be the issue in_ that is not the issue. it may be the issue in the — that is not the issue. it may be the issue in the news cycle for the next lift-hours — issue in the news cycle for the next 48—hours. but it not strategy important, but it is important that we are _ important, but it is important that we are getting these leaks. that needs— we are getting these leaks. that needs taken care of quick. it is notjust that it is not just that that leaks are taking — it is not just that that leaks are taking place _ it is not just that that leaks are taking place it _ it is not just that that leaks are taking place it is _ it is not just that that leaks are taking place it is what - it is not just that that leaks are taking place it is what they- it is not just that that leaks are taking place it is what they can| it is not just that that leaks are i taking place it is what they can sit on. taking place it is what they can sit on it— taking place it is what they can sit on it is— taking place it is what they can sit on it is not— taking place it is what they can sit on it is notiust _ taking place it is what they can sit on. it is notjust that— taking place it is what they can sit on. it is notjust that sue - taking place it is what they can sit on. it is notjust that sue gray- taking place it is what they can sit on. it is notjust that sue gray is i on. it is notjust that sue gray is paid _ on. it is notjust that sue gray is paid more — on. it is notjust that sue gray is paid more than— on. it is notjust that sue gray is paid more than the _ on. it is notjust that sue gray is paid more than the prime - on. it is notjust that sue gray is i paid more than the prime minister, the initial— paid more than the prime minister, the initial leak— paid more than the prime minister, the initial leak was _ paid more than the prime minister, the initial leak was that _ paid more than the prime minister, the initial leak was that she - paid more than the prime minister, the initial leak was that she was - the initial leak was that she was paid more — the initial leak was that she was paid more than— the initial leak was that she was paid more than the _ the initial leak was that she was paid more than the prime - the initial leak was that she was . paid more than the prime minister, was told _ paid more than the prime minister, was told this — paid more than the prime minister, was told this would _ paid more than the prime minister, was told this would be _ paid more than the prime minister, was told this would be a _ paid more than the prime minister, was told this would be a commonsl was told this would be a commons issue. _ was told this would be a commons issue. was— was told this would be a commons issue, was offered _ was told this would be a commons issue, was offered to _ was told this would be a commons issue, was offered to take - was told this would be a commons issue, was offered to take a - was told this would be a commons issue, was offered to take a lower| issue, was offered to take a lower salary— issue, was offered to take a lower salary and — issue, was offered to take a lower salary and refused. _ issue, was offered to take a lower salary and refused. the _ issue, was offered to take a lower

salary and refused. the sue - issue, was offered to take a lower salary and refused. the sue grayl salary and refused. the sue gray camp— salary and refused. the sue gray camp have — salary and refused. the sue gray camp have been _ salary and refused. the sue gray camp have been denying - salary and refused. the sue gray camp have been denying this. itl salary and refused. the sue gray. camp have been denying this. it has been denied- _ camp have been denying this. it has been denied. but _ camp have been denying this. it has been denied. but that _ camp have been denying this. it has been denied. but that was - camp have been denying this. it has been denied. but that was the - been denied. but that was the initial leak _ been denied. but that was the initial leak which _ been denied. but that was the initial leak which came - been denied. but that was the initial leak which came from . been denied. but that was the i initial leak which came from with been denied. but that was the - initial leak which came from with a number— initial leak which came from with a number 10 — initial leak which came from with a number 10 so— initial leak which came from with a number 10 so there _ initial leak which came from with a number 10 so there are _ initial leak which came from with a number 10 so there are two- initial leak which came from with a i number 10 so there are two different stories— number 10 so there are two different stories as _ number 10 so there are two different stories as nick— number 10 so there are two different stories as nick has _ number 10 so there are two different stories as nick has been _ number 10 so there are two different stories as nick has been saying - number 10 so there are two different stories as nick has been saying froml stories as nick has been saying from two different — stories as nick has been saying from two different camps, _ stories as nick has been saying from two different camps, it _ stories as nick has been saying from two different camps, it reminds- stories as nick has been saying from two different camps, it reminds mel two different camps, it reminds me of the _ two different camps, it reminds me of the dark— two different camps, it reminds me of the dark days _ two different camps, it reminds me of the dark days of _ two different camps, it reminds me of the dark days of the _ two different camps, it reminds me of the dark days of the boris - of the dark days of the boris johnson _ of the dark days of the boris johnson administration, - of the dark days of the boris i johnson administration, when of the dark days of the boris - johnson administration, when you had a group _ johnson administration, when you had a group around — johnson administration, when you had a group around dominic— johnson administration, when you had a group around dominic cummings - johnson administration, when you hadi a group around dominic cummings and the vote— a group around dominic cummings and the vote leave — a group around dominic cummings and the vote leave team _ a group around dominic cummings and the vote leave team in _ a group around dominic cummings and the vote leave team in number- a group around dominic cummings and the vote leave team in number 10 - a group around dominic cummings and the vote leave team in number 10 but| the vote leave team in number 10 but also a _ the vote leave team in number 10 but also a group _ the vote leave team in number 10 but also a group around _ the vote leave team in number 10 but also a group around carrie _ the vote leave team in number 10 but also a group around carrie johnson, i also a group around carrie johnson, the prime _ also a group around carrie johnson, the prime minister's _ also a group around carrie johnson, the prime minister's wife, - also a group around carrie johnson, the prime minister's wife, and i also a group around carrie johnson, the prime minister's wife, and thatl the prime minister's wife, and that kind of— the prime minister's wife, and that kind of war— the prime minister's wife, and that kind of war that _ the prime minister's wife, and that kind of war that ended _ the prime minister's wife, and that kind of war that ended with - the prime minister's wife, and that kind of war that ended with the i the prime minister's wife, and that| kind of war that ended with the exit of the _ kind of war that ended with the exit of the prime — kind of war that ended with the exit of the prime minister's _ kind of war that ended with the exit of the prime minister's most - kind of war that ended with the exit of the prime minister's most seniorj of the prime minister's most senior adviser~ _ of the prime minister's most senior adviser. �* , ., ~ of the prime minister's most senior adviser. �* , ., ,, ., of the prime minister's most senior adviser. �* , . ~ ., .~' of the prime minister's most senior adviser. �*, .~ ., of the prime minister's most senior adviser. �*, . ,, ., ., adviser. let's take a quick look at wes streeting. — adviser. let's take a quick look at wes streeting, the _ adviser. let's take a quick look at wes streeting, the health - adviser. let's take a quick look at i wes streeting, the health secretary, being asked about the issue of pay. gents, is sue gray worth more than the prime minister? i hello, there. we are very lucky to have sue. and the prime minister? _ we are very lucky to have him, too. shouldn't he be paid i more than his top aide? not my decisions. david, how have they allowed this to sort of break out onto the airwaves, onto programmes like this, and be discussed, within months of taking over at number 10?—

discussed, within months of taking over at number 10? well, it does not look very good- _ over at number 10? well, it does not look very good. but _ over at number 10? well, it does not look very good. but in _ over at number 10? well, it does not look very good. but in the _ over at number 10? well, it does not look very good. but in the last i over at number 10? well, it does not look very good. but in the last 14, i look very good. but in the last 14, 16 years. — look very good. but in the last 14, 16 years. we — look very good. but in the last 14, 16 years, we have got used to a government, a conservative government, which managed the news cycle brilliantly. they did not manage _ cycle brilliantly. they did not manage the country very well but they manage the new cycle via twitter. — they manage the new cycle via twitter, what we used to call twitter. _ twitter, what we used to call twitter, including many bbc reporters, if you follow twitter, you would — reporters, if you follow twitter, you would see story after story. keir starmer does not want to do that, _ keir starmer does not want to do that, clearly. but there is a vacuum, _ that, clearly. but there is a vacuum, and the vacuum is being felt by these _ vacuum, and the vacuum is being felt by these people in number 10. vacuum, and the vacuum is being felt by these people in numberio. it vacuum, and the vacuum is being felt by these people in number 10. it is very ciear— by these people in number 10. it is very clear now that all these leaks, we know _ very clear now that all these leaks, we know where they have come from now _ we know where they have come from now about _ we know where they have come from now. about the suits and angela rayner _ now. about the suits and angela rayner and all of that. the money liven to rayner and all of that. the money given to keir— rayner and all of that. the money given to keir starmer _ rayner and all of that. the money given to keir starmer to _ rayner and all of that. the money given to keir starmer to pay i rayner and all of that. the money given to keir starmer to pay for i rayner and all of that. the money | given to keir starmer to pay for his wife's close and his pet. blue this is about people who want to be paid more money, young people, by the way, it is no more than that. it is way, it is no more than that. it is like the junior— way, it is no more than that. it is like the junior doctors and the train — like the junior doctors and the train drivers, but in downing street — train drivers, but in downing street. this is not strategic governmental... | street. this is not strategic governmental. . ._ street. this is not strategic governmental... street. this is not strategic covernmental... ., �* ,, , governmental... i don't think it is fair to say —

governmental... i don't think it is fair to say that _ governmental... i don't think it is fair to say that at _ governmental... i don't think it is fair to say that at all, _ governmental... i don't think it is fair to say that at all, not - governmental... i don't think it is fair to say that at all, not the i fair to say that at all, not the people — fair to say that at all, not the people at— fair to say that at all, not the people at the _ fair to say that at all, not the people at the bottom - fair to say that at all, not the people at the bottom of i fair to say that at all, not the people at the bottom of the i fair to say that at all, not the i people at the bottom of the letter playing _ people at the bottom of the letter playing these _ people at the bottom of the letter playing these leaks. _ people at the bottom of the letter playing these leaks. though - people at the bottom of the letter playing these leaks. though theyl people at the bottom of the letter i playing these leaks. though they are not at _ playing these leaks. though they are not at the _ playing these leaks. though they are not at the bottom _ playing these leaks. though they are not at the bottom rung. _ playing these leaks. though they are not at the bottom rung. it _ playing these leaks. though they are not at the bottom rung. it is- playing these leaks. though they are not at the bottom rung. it is a - not at the bottom rung. it is a factionai— not at the bottom rung. it is a factional war— not at the bottom rung. it is a factional war at— not at the bottom rung. it is a factional war at the _ not at the bottom rung. it is a factional war at the heart i not at the bottom rung. it is a factional war at the heart of. factional war at the heart of downing _ factional war at the heart of downing street. _ factional war at the heart of downing street. first- factional war at the heart of downing street. first sue . factional war at the heart of. downing street. first sue gray decides — downing street. first sue gray decides to— downing street. first sue gray decides to move _ downing street. first sue gray decides to move morgan - downing street. first sue gray- decides to move morgan mcsweeney's death -- _ decides to move morgan mcsweeney's death -- desk— decides to move morgan mcsweeney's death —— desk further— decides to move morgan mcsweeney's death —— desk further and _ decides to move morgan mcsweeney's death —— desk further and further- death —— desk further and further away— death —— desk further and further away from — death —— desk further and further away from keir— death —— desk further and further away from keir starmer. - death —— desk further and further away from keir starmer. just- death -- desk further and further away from keir starmer. just because gb news said — away from keir starmer. just because gb news said it _ away from keir starmer. just because gb news said it all _ away from keir starmer. just because gb news said it all the _ away from keir starmer. just because gb news said it all the daily - away from keir starmer. just because gb news said it all the daily mail i gb news said it all the daily mail stop where it was in the guardian. i don't _ stop where it was in the guardian. i don't think— stop where it was in the guardian. i don't think that was true, it was denied — don't think that was true, it was denied. ., , ., denied. the government denies a sto , it denied. the government denies a story. it is _ denied. the government denies a story, it is another _ denied. the government denies a story, it is another day. _ denied. the government denies a story, it is another day. it - denied. the government denies a story, it is another day. it does i story, it is another day. it does not matter. — story, it is another day. it does not matter, look— story, it is another day. it does not matter, look at _ story, it is another day. it does not matter, look at what i story, it is another day. it does not matter, look at what is i not matter, look at what is happening the world, it does not matter— happening the world, it does not matter whether morgan mcsweeney's desk was— matter whether morgan mcsweeney's desk was moved. it is matter whether morgan mcsweeney's desk was moved.— desk was moved. it is about confidence _ desk was moved. it is about confidence of _ desk was moved. it is about confidence of government. | desk was moved. it is about i confidence of government. why desk was moved. it is about - confidence of government. why does it matter? is — confidence of government. why does it matter? is david _ confidence of government. why does it matter? is david wright _ confidence of government. why does it matter? is david wright when i confidence of government. why does it matter? is david wright when he i it matter? is david wright when he says that they may be running the country better, and this is all froth? iii country better, and this is all froth? , u, �* , froth? if they can't run everything behind that _ froth? if they can't run everything behind that famous _ froth? if they can't run everything behind that famous black - froth? if they can't run everything behind that famous black door, i froth? if they can't run everything behind that famous black door, if| behind that famous black door, if they can't— behind that famous black door, if they can't decide _ behind that famous black door, if they can't decide which _ behind that famous black door, if they can't decide which room - behind that famous black door, if| they can't decide which room their office _ they can't decide which room their office is_ they can't decide which room their office is going _ they can't decide which room their office is going to _ they can't decide which room their office is going to be _ they can't decide which room their office is going to be in, _ they can't decide which room their office is going to be in, if- they can't decide which room their office is going to be in, if they- office is going to be in, if they can't — can't decide the hierarchy of who reports _ can't decide the hierarchy of who reports to— can't decide the hierarchy of who reports to whom, _ can't decide the hierarchy of who reports to whom, who _ can't decide the hierarchy of who reports to whom, who is - can't decide the hierarchy of who reports to whom, who is paid - can't decide the hierarchy of who . reports to whom, who is paid more

than who— reports to whom, who is paid more than who else, _ reports to whom, who is paid more than who else, and _ reports to whom, who is paid more than who else, and is _ reports to whom, who is paid more than who else, and is it— reports to whom, who is paid more than who else, and is it morgan- than who else, and is it morgan mcsweeney— than who else, and is it morgan mcsweeney all _ than who else, and is it morgan mcsweeney all sue _ than who else, and is it morgan mcsweeney all sue gray- than who else, and is it morgan mcsweeney all sue gray who i than who else, and is it morgan mcsweeney all sue gray who is | than who else, and is it morgan. mcsweeney all sue gray who is the sort of— mcsweeney all sue gray who is the sort of calling — mcsweeney all sue gray who is the sort of calling the _ mcsweeney all sue gray who is the sort of calling the shots _ mcsweeney all sue gray who is the sort of calling the shots person - sort of calling the shots person here? — sort of calling the shots person here? ~ ,, l, ,, l, , sort of calling the shots person here? s a, a, 4' a, , , sort of calling the shots person here? ~ ,, l, ,, l, , , l, l, here? what we do know is it is not a nest of hummingbirds _ here? what we do know is it is not a nest of hummingbirds stop - here? what we do know is it is not a nest of hummingbirds stop rate - here? what we do know is it is not a nest of hummingbirds stop rate thatl nest of hummingbirds stop rate that is very true. we nest of hummingbirds stop rate that is very true-— nest of hummingbirds stop rate that is very true— my i is very true. we agree on that. my exnerience — is very true. we agree on that. my exnerience of— is very true. we agree on that. my experience of this, _ is very true. we agree on that. my experience of this, having - is very true. we agree on that. my| experience of this, having watched this over about three decades and seeing quite a few prime ministers, is that when you have advisors disagreeing so publicly, the fault is not the advisors' correct the principal and there is a general feeling even among supporters of keir starmer that he has not got a grip of this downing street. and the problem is that when he was head of the cps, he technically had the status of a permanent secretary, gus o'donnell, the former cabinet secretary said keir starmer would turn up in his weekly meeting, perfectly plausible permanent secretary and the worry is that he is acting like a permanent secretary, not a prime minister is not gripping the problem. is it secretary, not a prime minister is not gripping the problem. is it set auainst not gripping the problem. is it set against the _ not gripping the problem. is it set against the stories _ not gripping the problem. is it set against the stories about - not gripping the problem. is it set against the stories about the - against the stories about the freebies, let's call them that, lord ali, that you mention, the labour

peen ali, that you mention, the labour peer, has donated this money. it is set against that context again of number 10 allowing a story around donations, may be legitimate in that case and certainly declared, getting ahead of the new cycle. find case and certainly declared, getting ahead of the new cycle.— case and certainly declared, getting ahead of the new cycle. and what is interestin: ahead of the new cycle. and what is interesting about _ ahead of the new cycle. and what is interesting about that _ ahead of the new cycle. and what is interesting about that is _ ahead of the new cycle. and what is interesting about that is that - ahead of the new cycle. and what is interesting about that is that this i interesting about that is that this is groundhog day. 1997, i can't remember when i worked at the times, the amount of stories i had to write about tony's cronies and those stories about... about tony's cronies and those stories about. . ._ about tony's cronies and those stories about... bernie ecclestone. gas and the _ stories about... bernie ecclestone. gas and the funding _ stories about... bernie ecclestone. gas and the funding of— stories about... bernie ecclestone. gas and the funding of cherie - stories about... bernie ecclestone. gas and the funding of cherie blair| gas and the funding of cherie blair and you wonder about this downing street, don't they have the institutional memory to remember what happened and that you should ring fenced yourself? the what happened and that you should ring fenced yourself?— ring fenced yourself? the irony is, a lot of peeple _ ring fenced yourself? the irony is, a lot of people around _ ring fenced yourself? the irony is, a lot of people around keir - ring fenced yourself? the irony is, l a lot of people around keir starmer, who have _ a lot of people around keir starmer, who have been — a lot of people around keir starmer, who have been brought— a lot of people around keir starmer, who have been brought in— a lot of people around keir starmer, who have been brought in a - a lot of people around keir starmer, who have been brought in a special. who have been brought in a special advisers _ who have been brought in a special advisers to— who have been brought in a special advisers to other— who have been brought in a special advisers to other departments - who have been brought in a special advisers to other departments as l advisers to other departments as well but — advisers to other departments as well but in — advisers to other departments as well but in number— advisers to other departments as well but in number 10, _ advisers to other departments as well but in number 10, are - advisers to other departments as well but in number 10, are the l well but in number 10, are the people — well but in number 10, are the people who _ well but in number 10, are the people who were _ well but in number 10, are the people who were there - well but in number 10, are the people who were there when l well but in number 10, are the i people who were there when tony blair was — people who were there when tony blair was prime _ people who were there when tony blair was prime minister, - people who were there when tony blair was prime minister, they. people who were there when tony. blair was prime minister, they work for that— blair was prime minister, they work for that administration. _ blair was prime minister, they work for that administration. are - blair was prime minister, they work for that administration. are they. for that administration. are they making — for that administration. are they making the _ for that administration. are they making the same _ for that administration. are they making the same mistake - for that administration. are theyi making the same mistake again? for that administration. are they. making the same mistake again? to for that administration. are they- making the same mistake again? to be clear, making the same mistake again? to be clear. prime — making the same mistake again? to be clear, prime minister— making the same mistake again? to be clear, prime minister do _ making the same mistake again? to be clear, prime minister do take _ clear, prime minister do take donations and they can declare them, they can be for hospitality or

tickets, everyone does it. the only substantive _ tickets, everyone does it. the only substantive thing _ tickets, everyone does it. the only substantive thing that _ tickets, everyone does it. the only substantive thing that matters - tickets, everyone does it. the only substantive thing that matters is i substantive thing that matters is whether— substantive thing that matters is whether influence is being bought and there — whether influence is being bought and there is no suggestion of that. i remember— and there is no suggestion of that. i remember bernie ecclestone, there was a _ i remember bernie ecclestone, there was a suggestion of influence. i think. _ was a suggestion of influence. i think. you — was a suggestion of influence. i think, you know, ithink the prime minister— think, you know, ithink the prime minister has — think, you know, ithink the prime minister has grasped a lot of the issues _ minister has grasped a lot of the issues that we face as a country but he has _ issues that we face as a country but he has not — issues that we face as a country but he has not grasped communications and that— he has not grasped communications and that is— he has not grasped communications and that is the problem. the communications are not working. let's _ communications are not working. let's listen — communications are not working. let's listen tojosh communications are not working. let's listen to josh symons, a new let's listen tojosh symons, a new labour mp, ispoke let's listen tojosh symons, a new labour mp, i spoke to him earlier in my dayjob and he is justifying the donations to pay for some of the things we have talked about. keir starmer is not a man who is independently wealthy, who can afford to buy fancy suits and fancy clothes. he is now prime minister of this country and wants to go around the world looking, you know, like the prime minister of this country. it's not to say that he is, you know, poorly paid compared to the rest of the country. of course, he is extremely well paid but he is also, compared to the last prime minister,

not independently wealthy and not able to afford some of the things that they do. david, you are laughing. is that a credible justification?— credible 'ustification? look, i think crediblejustification? look, i think in pr. _ crediblejustification? look, i think in pr, there _ crediblejustification? look, i think in pr, there is - crediblejustification? look, i think in pr, there is this - credible justification? look, i | think in pr, there is this thing called — think in pr, there is this thing called friendly fire and i think they— called friendly fire and i think they are — called friendly fire and i think they are suffering from it. in other words. _ they are suffering from it. in other words, people are trying to help and i don't _ words, people are trying to help and i don't know— words, people are trying to help and i don't know precisely how... i doubt — idon't know precisely how... i doubt very— i don't know precisely how... i doubt very much whether keir starmer said, doubt very much whether keir starmer said. "i _ doubt very much whether keir starmer said. "i need— doubt very much whether keir starmer said, "i need some suits, find me some _ said, "i need some suits, find me some suits!" _ said, "i need some suits, find me some suits!" this is people that have _ some suits!" this is people that have said. — some suits!" this is people that have said, you need to look good and i will get _ have said, you need to look good and i will get you — have said, you need to look good and i will get you something. i am sure it was— i will get you something. i am sure it was not— i will get you something. i am sure it was notjust... peter mandelson and other— it was notjust... peter mandelson and other names have been mentioned. that is— and other names have been mentioned. that is what— and other names have been mentioned. that is what has happened. we and other names have been mentioned. that is what has happened.— that is what has happened. we are talkin: that is what has happened. we are talking about _ that is what has happened. we are talking about the _ that is what has happened. we are talking about the man _ that is what has happened. we are talking about the man who - that is what has happened. we are talking about the man who used i that is what has happened. we are talking about the man who used to| that is what has happened. we are i talking about the man who used to be the chief— talking about the man who used to be the chief prosecutor— talking about the man who used to be the chief prosecutor of _ talking about the man who used to be the chief prosecutor of this _ the chief prosecutor of this country _ the chief prosecutor of this country. we _ the chief prosecutor of this country. we are _ the chief prosecutor of this country. we are talking - the chief prosecutor of this i country. we are talking about the chief prosecutor of this - country. we are talking about the man who — country. we are talking about the man who was _ country. we are talking about the man who was one of— country. we are talking about the man who was one of the - country. we are talking about the man who was one of the most - country. we are talking about the i man who was one of the most senior lawyers _ man who was one of the most senior lawyers in _ man who was one of the most senior lawyers in the — man who was one of the most senior lawyers in the land, _ man who was one of the most senior lawyers in the land, one _ man who was one of the most senior lawyers in the land, one of— man who was one of the most senior lawyers in the land, one of the - man who was one of the most senior lawyers in the land, one of the bestl lawyers in the land, one of the best paid lawyers — lawyers in the land, one of the best paid lawyers in— lawyers in the land, one of the best paid lawyers in the _ lawyers in the land, one of the best paid lawyers in the land. _ lawyers in the land, one of the best paid lawyers in the land. buil- lawyers in the land, one of the best paid lawyers in the land.— paid lawyers in the land. but what is wron: paid lawyers in the land. but what is wrong with _ paid lawyers in the land. but what is wrong with it, _ paid lawyers in the land. but what is wrong with it, tom? _ paid lawyers in the land. but what is wrong with it, tom? what - paid lawyers in the land. but what is wrong with it, tom? what is - paid lawyers in the land. but what i is wrong with it, tom? what is wrong with the donations?— with the donations? firstly, this is someone who _ with the donations? firstly, this is someone who painted _ with the donations? firstly, this is someone who painted his - with the donations? firstly, this is someone who painted his political| someone who painted his political reputation — someone who painted his political reputation on _ someone who painted his political reputation on being _ someone who painted his political reputation on being whiter- someone who painted his political

reputation on being whiter than i reputation on being whiter than white. — reputation on being whiter than white. on — reputation on being whiter than white, on being _ reputation on being whiter than white, on being cleaner- reputation on being whiter than white, on being cleaner than i reputation on being whiter than - white, on being cleaner than clean, on being _ white, on being cleaner than clean, on being mr— white, on being cleaner than clean, on being mr rules. _ white, on being cleaner than clean, on being mr rules. he _ white, on being cleaner than clean, on being mr rules. he was - white, on being cleaner than clean, i on being mr rules. he was someone who went _ on being mr rules. he was someone who went after — on being mr rules. he was someone who went after both _ on being mr rules. he was someone who went after both rishi _ on being mr rules. he was someone who went after both rishi sunak- on being mr rules. he was someone who went after both rishi sunak and| who went after both rishi sunak and borisjohnson — who went after both rishi sunak and borisjohnson for— who went after both rishi sunak and borisjohnson for late _ who went after both rishi sunak and boris johnson for late declarations . boris johnson for late declarations whenever— boris johnson for late declarations whenever they _ boris johnson for late declarations whenever they had _ boris johnson for late declarations whenever they had a _ boris johnson for late declarations whenever they had a slip—up - boris johnson for late declarations whenever they had a slip—up in . boris johnson for late declarations l whenever they had a slip—up in their declarations — whenever they had a slip—up in their declarations. if— whenever they had a slip—up in their declarations. if he _ whenever they had a slip—up in their declarations. if he wants _ whenever they had a slip—up in their declarations. if he wants to - whenever they had a slip—up in their declarations. if he wants to step - declarations. if he wants to step into that — declarations. if he wants to step into that job, _ declarations. if he wants to step into that job, he _ declarations. if he wants to step into thatjob, he has— declarations. if he wants to step into thatjob, he has got- declarations. if he wants to step into that job, he has got to - declarations. if he wants to stepi into that job, he has got to stand up into that job, he has got to stand up to— into that job, he has got to stand up to his — into that job, he has got to stand up to his own— into that job, he has got to stand up to his own bar, _ into that job, he has got to stand up to his own bar, the _ into that job, he has got to stand up to his own bar, the bar- into that job, he has got to stand up to his own bar, the bar he - into that job, he has got to stand up to his own bar, the bar he set| up to his own bar, the bar he set his predecessors _ up to his own bar, the bar he set his predecessors and _ up to his own bar, the bar he set his predecessors and he - up to his own bar, the bar he set his predecessors and he has - up to his own bar, the bar he set. his predecessors and he has failed. sorrym _ his predecessors and he has failed. sor �* , , his predecessors and he has failed. sor h, ., , sorry... let's be honest as well, the majority _ sorry... let's be honest as well, the majority of _ sorry... let's be honest as well, the majority of the _ sorry... let's be honest as well, the majority of the printed - sorry... let's be honest as well, the majority of the printed price | sorry... let's be honest as well, l the majority of the printed price of this country and gb news, you are entitled _ this country and gb news, you are entitled to — this country and gb news, you are entitled to do what you are doing, are out— entitled to do what you are doing, are out to — entitled to do what you are doing, are out to get him. he has no air cover~ _ are out to get him. he has no air cover~ if— are out to get him. he has no air cover~ ifthis— are out to get him. he has no air cover. if this was a conservative prime _ cover. if this was a conservative prime minister, some of them would be saying. _ prime minister, some of them would be saying, we need a prime minister that looks _ be saying, we need a prime minister that looks good, you know, and his wife should — that looks good, you know, and his wife should look good and she is representing british fashion and all the rest _ representing british fashion and all the rest of— representing british fashion and all the rest of it. but one tiny element... the rest of it. but one tiny element. . ._ the rest of it. but one tiny element... ~ . ., ., , element... what the labour party has found is that — element... what the labour party has found is that it _ element... what the labour party has found is that it is _ element... what the labour party has found is that it is very _ element... what the labour party has found is that it is very easy _ element... what the labour party has found is that it is very easy to - element... what the labour party has found is that it is very easy to be - found is that it is very easy to be in opposition because _ found is that it is very easy to be in opposition because all you - found is that it is very easy to be in opposition because all you dol found is that it is very easy to be i in opposition because all you do is lob things— in opposition because all you do is lob things at— in opposition because all you do is lob things at the _ in opposition because all you do is lob things at the government. - in opposition because all you do is| lob things at the government. now they have — lob things at the government. now they have had _ lob things at the government. now they have had a _ lob things at the government. now they have had a pretty— lob things at the government. now they have had a pretty much - lob things at the government. now they have had a pretty much about| they have had a pretty much about turn from — they have had a pretty much about turn from their— they have had a pretty much about turn from their position _ they have had a pretty much about turn from their position only- they have had a pretty much about turn from their position only a - turn from their position only a couple — turn from their position only a couple of— turn from their position only a couple of years— turn from their position only a couple of years ago, -

turn from their position only a couple of years ago, they - turn from their position only a couple of years ago, they find j couple of years ago, they find themselves— couple of years ago, they find themselves in— couple of years ago, they find themselves in government. couple of years ago, they find i themselves in government and suddenly. _ themselves in government and suddenly, legitimate _ themselves in government and j suddenly, legitimate questions themselves in government and - suddenly, legitimate questions that are asked _ suddenly, legitimate questions that are asked of— suddenly, legitimate questions that are asked of government _ suddenly, legitimate questions that are asked of government they - suddenly, legitimate questions that are asked of government they are l are asked of government they are finding _ are asked of government they are finding hard— are asked of government they are finding hard to— are asked of government they are finding hard to answer— are asked of government they are finding hard to answer stop - are asked of government they are finding hard to answer stop that l are asked of government they are i finding hard to answer stop that we have got _ finding hard to answer stop that we have got the — finding hard to answer stop that we have got the conference _ finding hard to answer stop that we have got the conference speech- finding hard to answer stop that we i have got the conference speech next week and _ have got the conference speech next week and the — have got the conference speech next week and the budget. _ have got the conference speech next week and the budget. this _ have got the conference speech next week and the budget. this time - have got the conference speech next| week and the budget. this time next week. _ week and the budget. this time next week, things — week and the budget. this time next week, things may— week and the budget. this time next week, things may be _ week and the budget. this time next week, things may be very— week and the budget. this time next week, things may be very different. i week, things may be very different. we are _ week, things may be very different. we are in— week, things may be very different. we are in act— week, things may be very different. we are in act one _ week, things may be very different. we are in act one of— week, things may be very different. we are in act one of a _ week, things may be very different. we are in act one of a five - week, things may be very different. we are in act one of a five hour- we are in act one of a five hour drama — we are in act one of a five hour drama. �* ., ., ., ., ~ , ., drama. but a lot of labour mps agree with what tom _ drama. but a lot of labour mps agree with what tom says _ drama. but a lot of labour mps agree with what tom says which _ drama. but a lot of labour mps agree with what tom says which is - drama. but a lot of labour mps agree with what tom says which is the - with what tom says which is the prime minister was held up as this paragon of virtue. irate prime minister was held up as this paragon of virtue.— prime minister was held up as this paragon of virtue. we can show this bit from the — paragon of virtue. we can show this bit from the manifesto, _ paragon of virtue. we can show this bit from the manifesto, actually, i paragon of virtue. we can show this| bit from the manifesto, actually, we can read it, to echo some of what you havejust can read it, to echo some of what you have just said. that was from the manifesto into the election. how does that stand against what we have been talking about? i against what we have been talking about? , ., , .,, about? i should 'ust say i was talkin: about? i should 'ust say i was talking «ah about? i should 'ust say i was talking to a _ about? i should just say i was talking to a senior— about? i should just say i was talking to a senior labour- about? i should just say i was talking to a senior labour mp| about? i should just say i was i talking to a senior labour mp on exactly that and before i could even say, would you come on the programme, this labour mp said, do you want me to comment tonight? i've looked at my diary and i will be clipping my toenail sol looked at my diary and i will be clipping my toenail so i can't come on. the point is, all of this is

within the rules and borisjohnson, big questions over some of the sort of holidays and things he took but does it past the smell test and where is the explanation? for example, if few weeks ago it was focusing on these cronies, people who supported labour and were getting civil service jobs who supported labour and were getting civil servicejobs in whitehall. that is within the rules but they never explained it. the explanation is, this is a government that has the series of missions that it believes it's going to be judged on and we believe these people understand that but no one was out there really explaining it stopped raining but there are some bold breaks here? pare raining but there are some bold breaks here?— raining but there are some bold breaks here?_ of- raining but there are some bold i breaks here?_ of course, breaks here? are there? of course, keir starmer _ breaks here? are there? of course, keir starmer did _ breaks here? are there? of course, keir starmer did not _ breaks here? are there? of course, keir starmer did not declare - breaks here? are there? of course, keir starmer did not declare the i keir starmer did not declare the donations— keir starmer did not declare the donations to _ keir starmer did not declare the donations to his _ keir starmer did not declare the donations to his wife _ keir starmer did not declare the donations to his wife until - keir starmer did not declare the donations to his wife until it i donations to his wife until it became _ donations to his wife until it became a _ donations to his wife until it became a news _ donations to his wife until it became a news story. - donations to his wife until it became a news story.- donations to his wife until it became a news story. that was a sli - -u became a news story. that was a slip-up and _ became a news story. that was a slip-up and he — became a news story. that was a slip-up and he admitted - became a news story. that was a slip-up and he admitted it - became a news story. that was a slip-up and he admitted it and i became a news story. that was a i slip-up and he admitted it and then slip—up and he admitted it and then he consulted the authorities and then they said, yes, you need to declare it and then it came out. which was a technical breach. equally. — which was a technical breach. equally. the _ which was a technical breach. equally, the failure _ which was a technical breach. equally, the failure of- which was a technical breach. equally, the failure of rachell equally, the failure of rachel reeves — equally, the failure of rachel reeves to— equally, the failure of rachel reeves to declare _ equally, the failure of rachel reeves to declare one - equally, the failure of rachel reeves to declare one of- equally, the failure of rachel reeves to declare one of her| equally, the failure of rachel- reeves to declare one of her senior political— reeves to declare one of her senior political appointments _ reeves to declare one of her senior political appointments was - reeves to declare one of her senior political appointments was a - reeves to declare one of her senior| political appointments was a donor, that was— political appointments was a donor, that was another— political appointments was a donor, that was another technical- political appointments was a donor, that was another technical breach. i that was another technical breach. there have — that was another technical breach. there have been _ that was another technical breach. there have been technical-

that was another technical breach. . there have been technical breaches. but there _ there have been technical breaches. but there isn't — there have been technical breaches. but there isn't evidence _ there have been technical breaches. but there isn't evidence of _ but there isn't evidence of corruption, it isn't comparable, is it, tom to some of the claims and accusations that were made under the borisjohnson administration, boris johnson administration, particularly on borisjohnson administration, particularly on ppe contracts during the pandemic, is this the same? i don't think anyone has ever said that there — don't think anyone has ever said that there was _ don't think anyone has ever said that there was actual— don't think anyone has ever said that there was actual corruption| that there was actual corruption going _ that there was actual corruption going on— that there was actual corruption going on under— that there was actual corruption going on under the _ that there was actual corruption going on under the previous i going on under the previous government. _ going on under the previous government, that _ going on under the previous government, that is - going on under the previous government, that is a - going on under the previousj government, that is a heavy accusation _ government, that is a heavy accusation. there _ government, that is a heavy accusation. there were i government, that is a heavy. accusation. there were things government, that is a heavy- accusation. there were things that looked terrible, _ accusation. there were things that looked terrible, and _ accusation. there were things that looked terrible, and there - accusation. there were things that looked terrible, and there are i looked terrible, and there are things— looked terrible, and there are things that _ looked terrible, and there are things that look _ looked terrible, and there are things that look terrible - looked terrible, and there are | things that look terrible under looked terrible, and there are i things that look terrible under this government — things that look terrible under this government. but _ things that look terrible under this government. but a _ things that look terrible under this government. but a tory _ things that look terrible under this government. but a tory peer- things that look terrible under this government. but a tory peer by. government. but a tory peer by wallpaper— government. but a tory peer by wallpaper for— government. but a tory peer by wallpaper for downing - government. but a tory peer by wallpaper for downing street i government. but a tory peer by wallpaper for downing street toj wallpaper for downing street to remodel— wallpaper for downing street to remodel the _ wallpaper for downing street to remodel the interior— wallpaper for downing street to remodel the interior of- wallpaper for downing street to| remodel the interior of downing street— remodel the interior of downing street for— remodel the interior of downing street for whichever— remodel the interior of downing street for whichever prime i remodel the interior of downing i street for whichever prime minister would _ street for whichever prime minister would come — street for whichever prime minister would come along _ street for whichever prime minister would come along for— street for whichever prime minister would come along for the _ street for whichever prime minister i would come along for the foreseeable future, _ would come along for the foreseeable future, that— would come along for the foreseeable future, that was — would come along for the foreseeable future, that was of— would come along for the foreseeable future, that was of course _ would come along for the foreseeable future, that was of course a _ would come along for the foreseeable future, that was of course a huge i future, that was of course a huge political — future, that was of course a huge political story _ future, that was of course a huge political story and _ future, that was of course a huge political story and many - future, that was of course a huge political story and many people l political story and many people would — political story and many people would say — political story and many people would say rightly _ political story and many people would say rightly so. _ political story and many people would say rightly so. so - political story and many people would say rightly so. so is- political story and many people would say rightly so. so is the. would say rightly so. so is the story— would say rightly so. so is the story of— would say rightly so. so is the story of a labour— would say rightly so. so is the story of a labour peer - would say rightly so. so is the. story of a labour peer donating thousands— story of a labour peer donating thousands of— story of a labour peer donating thousands of pounds _ story of a labour peer donating thousands of pounds of- story of a labour peer donating i thousands of pounds of clothes, glasses— thousands of pounds of clothes, glasses and _ thousands of pounds of clothes, glasses and designer— thousands of pounds of clothes, glasses and designerjackets i thousands of pounds of clothes, | glasses and designerjackets and thousands of pounds of clothes, i glasses and designerjackets and all the rest _ glasses and designerjackets and all the rest of— glasses and designerjackets and all the rest of it. — glasses and designerjackets and all the rest of it, and _ glasses and designerjackets and all the rest of it, and then _ glasses and designerjackets and all the rest of it, and then getting i glasses and designerjackets and all the rest of it, and then getting a i the rest of it, and then getting a downing — the rest of it, and then getting a downing street _ the rest of it, and then getting a downing street pass, _ the rest of it, and then getting a downing street pass, a - the rest of it, and then getting a downing street pass, a past- the rest of it, and then getting a| downing street pass, a past that the rest of it, and then getting a i downing street pass, a past that has since been _ downing street pass, a past that has since been rescinded _ downing street pass, a past that has since been rescinded but— downing street pass, a past that has since been rescinded but a _ downing street pass, a past that has since been rescinded but a pass - since been rescinded but a pass that even senior cabinet— since been rescinded but a pass that even senior cabinet ministers- even senior cabinet ministers don't -et. even senior cabinet ministers don't get that _ even senior cabinet ministers don't get that is — even senior cabinet ministers don't

get that is buying _ even senior cabinet ministers don't get. that is buying influence. - even senior cabinet ministers don'ti get. that is buying influence. net's talk more broadly, he _ get. that is buying influence. talk more broadly, he has been a labour peerfor some talk more broadly, he has been a labour peer for some time but let's talk more broadly about labour�*s media strategy because as you said, you think they are operating in a vacuum. are these missteps, are these really the kind of fledgling government finding its feet or are they as tom said doing exactly the same as previous administrations and the real risk for keir starmer is that the public out there just say, you are exactly the same as the last lot? . . r' you are exactly the same as the last lot? , . ,~ ., you are exactly the same as the last lot? , . ., , lot? there is that risk of course, and they are _ lot? there is that risk of course, and they are saying _ lot? there is that risk of course, and they are saying that - lot? there is that risk of course, and they are saying that at - lot? there is that risk of course, and they are saying that at the l and they are saying that at the moment _ and they are saying that at the moment. but i think keir starmer, from _ moment. but i think keir starmer, from what — moment. but i think keir starmer, from what i — moment. but i think keir starmer, from what i understand, believe that actually _ from what i understand, believe that actually running the country and things— actually running the country and things like the train strikes ended today— things like the train strikes ended today and the junior doctors, we are not talking _ today and the junior doctors, we are not talking about that, he is making the mistake that the media might talk about the important things and that is— talk about the important things and that is a _ talk about the important things and that is a big mistake in this country— that is a big mistake in this country because the media likes to talk about— country because the media likes to talk about the unimportant things which _ talk about the unimportant things which we have been doing for the last 20 _ which we have been doing for the last 20 minutes. microgrid it is the same _ last 20 minutes. microgrid it is the same story~ — last 20 minutes. microgrid it is the same story-— it i last 20 minutes. microgrid it is the same story-— it isi same story. why do say that? it is the same because _ same story. why do say that? it is the same because this _ same story. why do say that? it is the same because this is - same story. why do say that? it is the same because this is a - same story. why do say that? it is the same because this is a story . the same because this is a story of sue gray— the same because this is a story of sue gray getting _ the same because this is a story of sue gray getting an _ the same because this is a story of sue gray getting an awful - the same because this is a story of sue gray getting an awful lot - the same because this is a story of sue gray getting an awful lot of. sue gray getting an awful lot of money, — sue gray getting an awful lot of money, of— sue gray getting an awful lot of money. of keir— sue gray getting an awful lot of money, of keir starmer- sue gray getting an awful lot of

money, of keir starmer gettingj sue gray getting an awful lot of- money, of keir starmer getting lots of freebies. — money, of keir starmer getting lots of freebies, £100,000 _ money, of keir starmer getting lots of freebies, £100,000 worth - money, of keir starmer getting lots of freebies, £100,000 worth of- money, of keir starmer getting lotsl of freebies, £100,000 worth of gifts in the _ of freebies, £100,000 worth of gifts in the last— of freebies, £100,000 worth of gifts in the last parliament, _ of freebies, £100,000 worth of gifts in the last parliament, an— in the last parliament, an extraordinary— in the last parliament, an extraordinary match. - in the last parliament, an extraordinary match. i. in the last parliament, an extraordinary match. i think the hiuhest extraordinary match. i think the highest amount _ extraordinary match. i think the highest amount stop _ extraordinary match. i think the highest amount stop read - extraordinary match. i think the highest amount stop read the i extraordinary match. i think the - highest amount stop read the highest of party leader. find highest amount stop read the highest of party leader-— of party leader. and the aslef union, of party leader. and the aslef union. the — of party leader. and the aslef union, the bma _ of party leader. and the aslef union, the bma union, - of party leader. and the aslef union, the bma union, the i of party leader. and the aslef . union, the bma union, thejunior doctors. — union, the bma union, thejunior doctors. getting— union, the bma union, thejunior doctors, getting double - union, the bma union, thejunior doctors, getting double digit - doctors, getting double digit inflation _ doctors, getting double digit inflation busting _ doctors, getting double digit inflation busting pay- doctors, getting double digit inflation busting pay rises, l doctors, getting double digiti inflation busting pay rises, all doctors, getting double digit - inflation busting pay rises, all at the same — inflation busting pay rises, all at the same time _ inflation busting pay rises, all at the same time as— inflation busting pay rises, all at the same time as the _ inflation busting pay rises, all at the same time as the chancellorj inflation busting pay rises, all at l the same time as the chancellor is saying _ the same time as the chancellor is saying that — the same time as the chancellor is saying that we're _ the same time as the chancellor is saying that we're heading - the same time as the chancellor is saying that we're heading into - the same time as the chancellor is saying that we're heading into an i saying that we're heading into an incredibly— saying that we're heading into an incredibly tight _ saying that we're heading into an incredibly tight fiscal— saying that we're heading into an incredibly tight fiscal situation, . incredibly tight fiscal situation, this is— incredibly tight fiscal situation, this is going _ incredibly tight fiscal situation, this is going to— incredibly tight fiscal situation, this is going to be _ incredibly tight fiscal situation, this is going to be a _ incredibly tight fiscal situation, this is going to be a painful- incredibly tight fiscal situation, - this is going to be a painful budget injust— this is going to be a painful budget injust a _ this is going to be a painful budget in just a month's _ this is going to be a painful budget in just a month's time, _ this is going to be a painful budget in just a month's time, and - injust a month's time, and retirees, _ injust a month's time, and retirees, pensioners, - injust a month's time, and retirees, pensioners, are. in just a month's time, and - retirees, pensioners, are having tienefits— retirees, pensioners, are having benefits withdrawn _ retirees, pensioners, are having benefits withdrawn from - retirees, pensioners, are having benefits withdrawn from them. i retirees, pensioners, are having - benefits withdrawn from them. how do the two _ benefits withdrawn from them. how do the two things — benefits withdrawn from them. how do the two things much? _ benefits withdrawn from them. how do the two things much? it— benefits withdrawn from them. how do the two things much? it looks - benefits withdrawn from them. how do the two things much? it looks like - the two things much? it looks like it is one _ the two things much? it looks like it is one rule — the two things much? it looks like it is one rule for— the two things much? it looks like it is one rule for the _ the two things much? it looks like it is one rule for the politicians- it is one rule for the politicians and their— it is one rule for the politicians and their friends— it is one rule for the politicians and their friends and _ it is one rule for the politicians and their friends and a - it is one rule for the politiciansi and their friends and a different rule for— and their friends and a different rule for everyone _ and their friends and a different rule for everyone else. - and their friends and a different rule for everyone else. [it- and their friends and a different rule for everyone else.- and their friends and a different rule for everyone else. it does look like that but _ rule for everyone else. it does look like that but that _ rule for everyone else. it does look like that but that isn't _ rule for everyone else. it does look like that but that isn't the - like that but that isn't the situation and that is the problem, it is not— situation and that is the problem, it is not the — situation and that is the problem, it is not the situation at all. but do use the _ it is not the situation at all. but do use the phrase, optics, taking on what tom said. the do use the phrase, optics, taking on what tom said.— what tom said. the optics in this country are _ what tom said. the optics in this country are set — what tom said. the optics in this country are set by _ what tom said. the optics in this country are set by the _ what tom said. the optics in this country are set by the printed . country are set by the printed press, — country are set by the printed press, that is the problem. if you are a _ press, that is the problem. if you are a conservative prime minister, you have _ are a conservative prime minister, you have air— are a conservative prime minister, you have air cover, he does not have that and _ you have air cover, he does not have that and he — you have air cover, he does not have that and he needs to fill it is

difficult _ that and he needs to fill it is difficult for a labour prime difficult fora labour prime minister— difficult for a labour prime minister to difficult for a labour prime ministerto run difficult for a labour prime minister to run the country. it doesn't — minister to run the country. it doesn't happen very often. they have not started _ doesn't happen very often. they have not started very well, and that is the problem in terms of their coming occasions _ the problem in terms of their coming occasions. , ., �* , occasions. they don't see the need to exolain- — occasions. they don't see the need to explain. don't _ occasions. they don't see the need to explain. don't forget, _ occasions. they don't see the need to explain. don't forget, the - to explain. don't forget, the current media operation are the same people who a year ago took nine days to explain that keir starmer in an lbc interview had not said that he thought that water and energy supplies should be cut off to gaza. he believed he hadn't said it but it took nine days to clarify. yesterday, newsnight broadcast our interview with diane abbott. here's what she had to say about the way she felt the labour party had treated her during the row over racist comments made about her by a tory donor. i think initially, i was treated as a nonperson, which very strange because at the same time, they were writing to party members trying to raise money on the back of how hester had treated me. the full interview with diane abbott is available on iplayer now. search for diane abbot: political survivor on iplayer.

let's take a quick look at a few of the stories on the