we'll continue to grading has and tell all our objectives are met. and tell all our ob'ectives are met. l, , and tell all our ob'ectives are met. a, , a, , and tell all our ob'ectives are met. . , ., , ., and tell all our ob'ectives are met. ._ ., , ., , met. really, really loud bangs that reverberated _ met. really, really loud bangs that reverberated and - met. really, really loud bangs that reverberated and you - met. really, really loud bangsl that reverberated and you could feel seven or eight of them in quick— feel seven or eight of them in quick succession. our panel tonight — democratic political strategist and commentator, hilary rosen and professor nathalie tocci, director of the istituto affari internazionali. a busy day. the latest headlines. the israeli military has carried out a massive attack on what it says is hezbollah's central headquarters in the southern suburbs of the lebanese capital, beirut. lebanon's health ministry says at least two people have been killed and 76 injured in israeli air strikes — those numbers are expected to rise. the israeli prime minister

benjamin netanyahu is cutting short his visit to new york and returning to israel following the attack. earlier mr netanyahu told the un the offensive against hezbollah would continue, rejecting calls for a ceasefire. the award—winning british actress dame maggie smith has died. she was 89. we start in the middle east, where multiple blasts have reverberated in the southern suburbs of beirut, sending clouds of smoke into the sky. these are the latest pictures from the scene of the explosions, in a densely populated area. the israeli defence forces claim to have targeted hezbollah's central headquarters. in the last half hour, the reuters news agency reported comments from the israeli military — saying it's continuing to "degrade and dismantle" hezbollah's capabilities.

a source close to hezbollah told reuters the group's leader hassan nasrallah is alive. with iran's tasnim news agency also reporting that he's safe. these are pictures of children being pulled out of the rubble of the buildings hit by the israeli air strikes. lebanon's health ministry says at least two people have been killed and 76 injured — those numbers are expected to rise. it comesjust hours prime minister we canjust we can just hear from the us secretary of state... ... secretary of state... continuing _ secretary of state... continuing to _ secretary of state... continuing to stand - secretary of state... continuing to stand up i secretary of state... l continuing to stand up for their sovereignty and the right to stand for their future. at

the security council the overwhelming number of countries called for a just and lasting peace on the basis of the united nations charter. crucial to that, is pressing around north korea and china... permanent members of the council to stop providing weapons and machinery that russia is using to devastate ukrainian homes. as we saw this week support for ukraine is tangible. . dozens of countries came together to help ukraine rebuild. sending more equipment like turbines that are crucial to keeping the lights on and keeping ukrainians warm, heating homes and factories as russia tries to weaponised the weather as we head into winter. president biden and i met with

president biden and i met with president zelensky to to discuss ways forward to win this war. a discussion that will... continued. we announced a surge of support, including long range and more training. throughout this week we've also advanced our vision for free and open pacific. to deepen their partnership through our countries. antony bfinken through our countries. antony blinken there... _ through our countries. antony blinken there. .. just - through our countries. antony blinken there... just talking l blinken there... just talking about ukraine butjust before we went to him he was talking about the middle east and i can tell you he was saying we have made it clear the way forward

is diplomacy not conflict. and he also added that this was a precarious moment for the middle east and indeed for the world. and it echoes from what we were hearing from the white house saying that they had no involvement in the israel strike in beirut. israel saying that they were targeting the headquarters of hezbollah. alarm from the us but also from the united nations expressing alarm with 11 on we are watching what is happening in beirut as soon as we have any information from our end and of course the reaction i will of course the reaction i will of course share it with you. what we are seeing here is that

netanyahu is doing all that because he can. a year ago we stood — because he can. a year ago we stood before you when we warned of this _ stood before you when we warned of this moment. it is going to .et of this moment. it is going to get worse _ of this moment. it is going to get worse unless the security council — get worse unless the security council and behind us performs its duty— council and behind us performs its duty and does what it has to do— its duty and does what it has to do and _ its duty and does what it has to do and prevents this most is radical— to do and prevents this most is radical of— to do and prevents this most is radical of israeli governments. unless — radical of israeli governments. unless they stop them, unless this government faces consequence, this whole region is falling — consequence, this whole region is falling into the base and the future of the region including the future of israel and we _ including the future of israel and we will be talking about wan — and we will be talking about wet it — and we will be talking about wet it is _ and we will be talking about war. it is time to face the truth _ war. it is time to face the truth and _ war. it is time to face the truth and that is unless netanyahu is stopped war will encompass all of us.

it is dark now but they are digging through the rubble trying to find survivors, trying to find survivors, trying to find survivors, trying to get a picture of what exactly has gone on. at the moment hezbollah is not allowing journalist into the area to see what is going on. but a lot of people who live there, it is a densely populated area, tall apartment buildings, people living in flats, a lot of people are trying to get out of those suburbs tonight as well. we've seen people fleeing from the south of lebanon since those air strikes started. we've seen several strikes in the last few days. they have been what israel called precision strikes. they have tended to target one or two apartments. in those circumstances we have seen civilians killed as well, but really nothing on the scale that we saw here. atjust about 20 per six in the evening local

time. that series of very loud explosions that absolutely reverberated through the city, very loud and you could feel them where we were. and then to watch that large cloud of smoke go watch that large cloud of smoke 9° up watch that large cloud of smoke go up and in the next few hours no doubt, a lot will come clearer. but what we knew pretty quickly was that this was a significant escalation coming as it did, about 90 minutes after benjamin netanyahu finished his speech at the un. netanyahu finished his speech at the un-_ at the un. when it comes to those strikes, _ at the un. when it comes to those strikes, antony - at the un. when it comes to l those strikes, antony blinken just being asked about that now... i will let israel speak to their operations and their objectives. that's not my

place... we and many others have been clear about what we see to be the best path forward. the objective that israel has in the first instance in lebanon is an important and legitimate one. it's creating an environment thatis it's creating an environment that is secure enough to enable people to return home, because remember what happened on october the 8th. hezbollah started lobbing rockets and missiles into israel trying to create another front in a war. israel had to respond. in the process tens of thousands of people had to evacuate their homes in northern israel. homes were destroyed in southern lebanon is. so you have large populations who have been forced from their homes in both lebanon and israel. and it is an important objective for israel to create an environment where people can get back to their homes. the question is, what is the best way to do

that? what is the most effective and sustainable way to do that? we believe and many other countries have joined us in putting out a call for a ceasefire for 21 days, believe, that the best way to do that is through a ceasefire policy and then reaching an agreement. that pulls back forces from the border and gives people the confidence that they can go back to their houses. that their kids and go back to school. so, we believe that the best way forward. and the israelis put back a statement that they share those aims. so, the question is not does israel have a right to defend itself against terrorism, of course it does. the question is not does israel have a right to deal with existential threats to its security, and enemies across its borders with the avowed intent to destroy israel. of

course it does. but the question is, what is the best way to achieve its objectives. to reach enduring security. and in this instance with regard to lebanon what is the best way to achieve the stated objective in northern israel that gives people the confidence of a return to their homes and we believe diplomatic course is the best one. i believe diplomatic course is the best one.— believe diplomatic course is the best one. i want to ask the auestion the best one. i want to ask the question again, _ the best one. i want to ask the question again, since - the best one. i want to ask the question again, since octoberl question again, since october the 7th — question again, since october the 7th you have been saying that — the 7th you have been saying that israel has to... has the right— that israel has to... has the right to _ that israel has to... has the right to defend itself and you have — right to defend itself and you have been stating all the time that they have the right to defend _ that they have the right to defend themselves against hezbollah and iranians proxies in the — hezbollah and iranians proxies in the middle east. so, my question... now you repeated... how— question... now you repeated... how does — question... now you repeated... how does that matter. can you

clarify — how does that matter. can you clarify whether this israeli approach to targeting hezbollah's leadership falls under— hezbollah's leadership falls under the self defence and what is the _ under the self defence and what is the administration is clear view— is the administration is clear view on _ is the administration is clear view on the policy of targeted assassination. and the second question— assassination. and the second question you have... you have been _ question you have... you have been working towards this goal for the — been working towards this goal for the past 11 months. as we edge — for the past 11 months. as we edge closer to a broader conflict _ edge closer to a broader conflict could you specify what you mean... are you preferring a return— you mean... are you preferring a return to _ you mean... are you preferring a return to the pre—october seven— a return to the pre—october seven status quo or the... un resolution— seven status quo or the... un resolution 1701. one final question we are two weeks away from _ question we are two weeks away from october the 7th. what

could — from october the 7th. what could you have done differently that might have changed the current— that might have changed the current situation? i appreciate that ou current situation? i appreciate that you managed _ current situation? i appreciate that you managed to - current situation? i appreciate that you managed to get - current situation? i appreciate that you managed to get in . that you managed to get in several questions... first, on the events of the last hours, we are still gathering information. making sure that we fully understand what happened, what the intent was and until we have that information i can't address in detail our response to it. so we'll continue to work on that in the hours ahead. with regard to the broader conflict we've said very clearly, ever since october the 7th at one of our objectives besides making sure that israel does what it needs to do to make sure that 0ctober to do to make sure that october the 7th ever happens again, besides doing everything we can do to make sure that people who are caught in this horrible crossfire of hamas making,

women men children in gaza... that they get the protection and the assistance that they need. besides that our objective has been to stop the war from spreading. objective has been to stop the warfrom spreading. as objective has been to stop the war from spreading. as well as escalating. and on multiple occasions we have seem to be on the verge ofjust that happening. including, in the days following 0ctober seven and then again on several other occasions most notably in april. an even more recently than that. and each and every time a combination of american deterrence and american diplomacy managed to prevent a wider war. we are intensely focused on doing exactly that now. along with many other countries, because in our judgment, and thejudgment of so many others it is in no i's interest to have a wider conflict. so we are working in every possible way to prevent that from happening. in terms of where we think they should 90, of where we think they should go, no, going back simply to

october the six in terms of the border between lebanon and israel, is not sufficient. because it's not simply a matter of having a ceasefire, thatis matter of having a ceasefire, that is hezbollah firing into israel and israel responding in a tit—for—tat. what is necessary is to create the conditions, including moving forces back, such that people in both northern israel and southern lebanon have the confidence to return home. it would be important finally, to make 1701 reel. not simply a piece of paper. that's never been effectively implemented. i remind as well, that is part of israel leaving lebanon in 2000 after it had been bogged down there for 15 years. as part of that, and 21701, the understanding was that any of the armed militia would put down their weapons. in the

state should have a monopoly on the use of force and hezbollah never did that. and it's presenting an ongoing threat to israel ever since. with the avowed goal of eradicating it. in this instance the most important thing to do, again, if the objective is to just get people go home and back to school in israel and in lebanon, what's important thing to do is to stop firing, and then to use the time that we would have in such a ceasefire to see if we can reach a broader diplomatic agreement on this. i think broader diplomatic agreement on this. ithink it broader diplomatic agreement on this. i think it would have to agree... proceed in phases. we have to have conditions on the ground such that people know with confidence, that they can be safe in their own homes. and finally, as we come to october seven and the anniversary of that horror... 0urfocus is not

inking about the past. 0ur inking about the past. our focus is intently on the here and now and the efforts that we continue to make to get a ceasefire that brings those hostages home and that results in a humanitarian help for people in gaza and opens the way for enduring peace and stability. i way for enduring peace and stabili . . ., ., stability. i also have a multipart... _ stability. i also have a multipart... so - stability. i also have a multipart. .. so with i stability. i also have a i multipart. .. so with your multipart... so with your indulgence. mediators were in the thick— indulgence. mediators were in the thick of negotiations in july... _ the thick of negotiations in july... now there is the unconfirmed possibility that her son— unconfirmed possibility that her son nasrallah —— has hassan nasrallah— her son nasrallah —— has hassan nasrallah has been killed. can the us— nasrallah has been killed. can the us afford to put its weight behind — the us afford to put its weight behind these proposals when

it — behind these proposals when it are _ behind these proposals when it... are the ceasefire proposals that you have been proposing now dead? tehran seems — proposing now dead? tehran seems to— proposing now dead? tehran seems to have been deterred through— seems to have been deterred through us efforts from directly retaliating against israel— directly retaliating against israel and other interests, including after the assassination... is the us willing _ assassination... is the us willing to _ assassination... is the us willing to continue its efforts to deter _ willing to continue its efforts to deter iran... on ukraine, earlier— to deter iran... on ukraine, earlierthis_ to deter iran... on ukraine, earlier this month you and foreign— earlier this month you and foreign secretary lani said you would — foreign secretary lani said you would continue deliberations about— would continue deliberations about long—range capability about long— range capability weapons about long—range capability weapons in russia over the course _ weapons in russia over the course of _ weapons in russia over the course of the un general assembly engaging with western allies _ assembly engaging with western allies. the germans came out this week— allies. the germans came out this week to voice their opposition to this. is there a clear— opposition to this. is there a clear answer from the us to

this— clear answer from the us to this request from the ukrainians and if not how much longer— ukrainians and if not how much longer do — ukrainians and if not how much longer do you expect them to wait — longer do you expect them to wait for— longer do you expect them to wait for an answer?— longer do you expect them to wait for an answer? with regard to the ceasefires _ wait for an answer? with regard to the ceasefires both _ wait for an answer? with regard to the ceasefires both in - wait for an answer? with regard to the ceasefires both in gaza . to the ceasefires both in gaza and in lebanon, i don't think the question is one of individuals the question is one of interests. and what is in the interest of the respective parties. getting them to act on those interests. i mentioned, a moment ago in the case of gaza, the interest of all concerned really should go to bringing this ceasefire agreement across the finish line. which we have been working to do for the last several weeks. been working to do for the last severalweeks. it's been working to do for the last several weeks. it's manifestly in the interests of israel... it has achieved its objectives at horrifically high cost.

getting the hostages home, putting gaza on a better path i believe, is in their interests. it's manifestly in the interests of the people in gaza who would get immediate relief from the war. immediate relief in terms of a surge in humanitarian assistance and a commitment from the international community to help them rebuild their lives. wherejust coming away them rebuild their lives. where just coming away from the international secretary of state antony blinken... he is talking about how the importance of getting a resolution through diplomacy... weaver in reporting on that strike from hezbollah into northern israel. diplomacy is not seemingly, the way this is going. let's pick up on all of

this let's bring in our first guest. we heard their antony blinken, say it is about diplomacy not conflict. he talks about the issue is getting kids back to school... and keep people home. it sounds simple is but it's not is it? ithink the simple is but it's not is it? i think the administration didn't understand it over the last eight or nine months. i think it's increasingly obvious now that the international community and the united states is faced with three wars of attrition. these wars of

attrition. these wars of attrition do not have stable end states. they will not be resolved through diplomacy, transformative diplo city. the best they can do is deter contain and maybe if you're lucky, negotiate transactional arrangements. that's what the ministration try to do in gaza. it did not work there because to principal decision—makers, eachin to principal decision—makers, each in their own way, netanyahu and... simply concluded that the risk of doing a deal and also the benefits of doing a deal were simply outweighed by the risks. and their own calculations of not doing it. it's extremely difficult in such a conflict and is perceived near existential, certainly for netanyahu in political terms... it's very difficult for

external agencies to pressure and persuasion. we are looking at the same kind of ceasefire proposal between hezbollah and the... government of israel on the... government of israel on the other. again, right now, mr netanyahu's calculations and neta nyahu's calculations and interest netanyahu's calculations and interest do not weigh in the direction of an agreement. certainly not with the escalation dominance of undermining hezbollah... i don't think there are any magic fixes. �* , ., ., , don't think there are any magic fixes. �*, . ., , , .«r fixes. it's a really bleak picture _ fixes. it's a really bleak picture that _ fixes. it's a really bleak picture that you - fixes. it's a really bleak picture that you paint. l fixes. it's a really bleak. picture that you paint. you outline those three areas. is that the issue here. we have

antony blinken who has been in the region so many times now and hasn't been able to achieve that ceasefire that so long ceasefire, first in gaza, now obviously across that lebanese border. is it because they are taking it part by part where if you can't decouple what is happening with hezbollah from what is happening with hamas. they have to be a package, you have to deal with all of it... if you don't decouple then essentially, you create a situation where you, in trying to achieve this two—for—one you are not going to achieve anything. that's the conundrum. blink and stripped of the middle east? if this were clear... henry kissinger claimed... the issue is to

organisations that we bylaw... the us government bylaw has classified as foreign terrorist organisations. 0ne grabbed hostages. and engaged in serial predation, mutilation, and rape, and then abuse and continue to abuse the hostages in their possession. the fact it is israel and hamas conflict so limits the amount of leveraged that any administration could bring and expands the resistance to that by this israeli government. by law we can't even talk to hezbollah, let alone facilitate material assistance to them. it

is a situation that is the united states has never experienced before. and not put too fine a point on it, when we are a0 plus days... my mouth isn't great... before one of the most consequential elections in modern american history. you heard antony blinken is comments... they're extremely careful about singling out israel and criticising them. and that's because of internal politics. the republican party, has emerged as the israel can do no wrong party. the administration doesn't want to get caught between... both internally and externally this is a real heavy lift. and because middle east negotiations generally have only two speeds slow, and slower, i think it's going to be very hard to envision... i

wouldn't rule it out... but not yet. wouldn't rule it out... but not et. ., . ~' . wouldn't rule it out... but not et. ., ., ,, ., . yet. you talk about ceasefire and et yet. you talk about ceasefire and yet the _ yet. you talk about ceasefire and yet the lines _ yet. you talk about ceasefire and yet the lines that - yet. you talk about ceasefire and yet the lines that are - and yet the lines that are coming through... coming in thick and fast and update... senior official saying that israel has decided to take action against hezbollah. they're saying it's a very tough call but they say we are playing the long game. another line that is coming into us from afp news agency. israel's armies warns residents to evacuate several areas of south beirut. what is the long game? are we going to see a repeat of what we've seen in gaza are now across lebanon? it’s what we've seen in gaza are now across lebanon?— across lebanon? it's a stunning question- _ across lebanon? it's a stunning question- l'm — across lebanon? it's a stunning question. i'm not— across lebanon? it's a stunning question. i'm not sure - across lebanon? it's a stunning question. i'm not sure i -

across lebanon? it's a stunning question. i'm not sure i have i question. i'm not sure i have the right answer. hezbollah has a inventory and repository of high trajectory weapons. various ranges. they have the capacity. they have at least a00 precision guided missiles which cover most of israel. which if launched... and remember during the 2006 war... they have the capacity to launch 3000 a day for several weeks. which means that no amount of israeli air defence can prevent some of those missiles in saturation getting through to israeli populations and the electricity grid... bengurion airport... which will mean a massive israeli retaliation which will destroy what infrastructure remains in an economic failing lebanon on

already. probably to the deaths of thousands of lebanese. so many of whom are going to be innocent. civilians that's what we face. maybe it won't go there. maybe the israelis will continue to try to degrade hezbollah without a ground operation. but either way, you are talking about an escalation and a situation that is going to get worse. before it gets worse... to get worse. before it gets worse- - -_ to get worse. before it gets worse... ~ ., , ., ., , worse... worse and then worse. let's bring _ worse... worse and then worse. let's bring in — worse... worse and then worse. let's bring in the _ worse... worse and then worse. let's bring in the panel. - worse... worse and then worse. let's bring in the panel. this - let's bring in the panel. this is a really difficult conversation where having here. the international community,

just doesn't get the complexity of this... antony blinken has been there so many times and hasn't got an agreement. is that where the lack of agreement is because of a lack of understanding? i don't think it's because secretary blinken doesn't understand the situation, i think netanyahu really at this point does not care what israel's allies think around the world just as much as we do. i think the over assumption and aaron is more of an expert on this that i am but i think there is an assumption that the us has a much more influence over israel then it really does. i think that is a significant problem. every blinken is tried everything. he tried to be tough with israel, try to be nice to israel, try to encourage them. one of the things i really find puzzling,

maybe you all have a better