tv Newsnight BBC News October 4, 2024 10:30pm-11:01pm BST
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welcome to newsnight, home to the best insight, analysis and interviews from home and abroad. we'll come later to the government's green growth agenda and where public opinion lies, and we're following up on last night's lively discussion about the chagos islands with a chagossian. but first, as thejewish holiday of rosh hashanah ends, the choices made by israeli pm benjamin netanhayu on the nature of israel's response to iran's missile barrage will start to become clear. we want to take stock of where this middle east conflict is heading as we enter the weekend. on newsnight tonight, gabriel gatehouse, the award—winning host of the coming storm podcast, afsin shahi, middle east expert from the university of keele, and laura trevelyan, the respected journalist and podcaster who's normally based in the us.
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we have not yet had a response from the israelis. is there a timing issue here?— the israelis. is there a timing issue here? , . , . ., , ., issue here? the israelis clearly are roactive issue here? the israelis clearly are proactive at _ issue here? the israelis clearly are proactive at the _ issue here? the israelis clearly are proactive at the moment _ issue here? the israelis clearly are proactive at the moment i - issue here? the israelis clearly are proactive at the moment i think . issue here? the israelis clearly are i proactive at the moment i think they will take a time of their choosing. the iranians are being reactive and it is what we saw on tuesday. so it feels like this is one for israel to choose the timing, i don't know what it will be. we choose the timing, i don't know what it will be. ~ ., ., ._ choose the timing, i don't know what it will be. ~ ., ., ., it will be. we heard today from iran's supreme _ it will be. we heard today from iran's supreme leader, - it will be. we heard today from iran's supreme leader, saying| it will be. we heard today from i iran's supreme leader, saying he will not back down, no great surprise. figs will not back down, no great surprise-— surprise. as you know, the supreme leader very — surprise. as you know, the supreme leader very rarely _ surprise. as you know, the supreme leader very rarely leads _ surprise. as you know, the supreme leader very rarely leads the - surprise. as you know, the supreme leader very rarely leads the friday i leader very rarely leads the friday prayers _ leader very rarely leads the friday prayers in — leader very rarely leads the friday prayers in iran, so any time he decides — prayers in iran, so any time he decides to— prayers in iran, so any time he decides to lead friday prayer, that means— decides to lead friday prayer, that means there must be something very important _ means there must be something very important like a national emergency or crisis—
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important like a national emergency or crisis happening, and what was so interesting _ or crisis happening, and what was so interesting about his speech this morning. — interesting about his speech this morning, it basically had two parts, the first— morning, it basically had two parts, the first part he just went through everything he has been talking about over the _ everything he has been talking about over the last 35 years, we are never going _ over the last 35 years, we are never going to _ over the last 35 years, we are never going to back down, and we will support— going to back down, and we will support the resistance, and he also tried to support some justification for what _ tried to support some justification for what iran did a few days ago. but what — for what iran did a few days ago. but what is — for what iran did a few days ago. but what is so interesting, the other— but what is so interesting, the other part _ but what is so interesting, the other part of his speech was not even _ other part of his speech was not even in — other part of his speech was not even in persian, it was in arabic, the nrain— even in persian, it was in arabic, the main language of iran is persian, _ the main language of iran is persian, so he was basically directiv— persian, so he was basically directly addressing the sheer population and the wider regional countries — population and the wider regional countries tojustify his population and the wider regional countries to justify his position, and of— countries to justify his position, and of course you have to remember, in addition _ and of course you have to remember, in addition to— and of course you have to remember, in addition to the crisis of legitimacy, iran has been facing at home: _ legitimacy, iran has been facing at home, i_ legitimacy, iran has been facing at home, i would say particularly of the last— home, i would say particularly of the last year or so since the beginning of the conflict in gaza,
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iran beginning of the conflict in gaza, iran is— beginning of the conflict in gaza, iran is beginning to experience a new type — iran is beginning to experience a new type of crisis of legitimacy among — new type of crisis of legitimacy among its supporters in the region, among its supporters in the region, a lot of— among its supporters in the region, a lot of people are raising this question. _ a lot of people are raising this question, look at what has been happening in the region and gaza and lebanon _ happening in the region and gaza and lebanon right now, what iran exactly has been _ lebanon right now, what iran exactly has been doing? that has raised a lot of— has been doing? that has raised a lot of questions and the supreme leader— lot of questions and the supreme leader wanted to directly address the people. find leader wanted to directly address the peeple-_ leader wanted to directly address the --eole. �* the people. and then yemen as well, we have seen — the people. and then yemen as well, we have seen the _ the people. and then yemen as well, we have seen the us _ the people. and then yemen as well, we have seen the us bombing, - the people. and then yemen as well, we have seen the us bombing, and i we have seen the us bombing, and that was denied that it was uk as well. i that was denied that it was uk as well. , , , . ., that was denied that it was uk as well. ,,_ .,, that was denied that it was uk as well. , ., ,, that was denied that it was uk as well. , ., , _, well. i suspect that is 'ust a mix-up. fl well. i suspect that is 'ust a mix-up. the i well. i suspect that is 'ust a mix-up, the uk * well. i suspect that is 'ust a mix-up, the uk has h well. i suspect that isjust a mix-up, the uk has been i well. i suspect that isjust a - mix-up, the uk has been conducting mix—up, the uk has been conducting air strikes... find mix-up, the uk has been conducting air strikes- - -— air strikes... and keen to take some credit. air strikes... and keen to take some credit- this — air strikes... and keen to take some credit- this is _ air strikes... and keen to take some credit. this is a _ air strikes... and keen to take some credit. this is a new _ air strikes... and keen to take some credit. this is a new government, i credit. this is a new government, but i credit. this is a new government, but i would _ credit. this is a new government, but i would not _ credit. this is a new government, but i would not read _ credit. this is a new government, but i would not read anything - credit. this is a new government, but i would not read anything too | but i would not read anything too much into it for now, but what you said about the supreme leader coming
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in and addressing an arabic was so interesting and it gives you a real sense of the damage that has been done to iran's axis of resistance. it has been the central plank of their projection of power in the region. their pro'ection of power in the reuion. �* ., , region. and in syria as well, they have been _ region. and in syria as well, they have been battered _ region. and in syria as well, they have been battered over - region. and in syria as well, they have been battered over the - region. and in syria as well, they have been battered over the last| have been battered over the last year or— have been battered over the last year or so — have been battered over the last year or sci-— have been battered over the last year or so. so, laura, obviously, everyone — year or so. so, laura, obviously, everyone is— year or so. so, laura, obviously, everyone is waiting _ year or so. so, laura, obviously, everyone is waiting now- year or so. so, laura, obviously, everyone is waiting now for - year or so. so, laura, obviously, everyone is waiting now for the l everyone is waiting now for the nature of the escalation and response from the israelis, we have heard interesting stuff from joe biden over the last 48 hours, yesterday he suggested, they were discussing targeting the oil facilities, today he has said he would not do that if he was in israel's shoes. do you get some
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sense in which the americans are trying to restrain benjamin netanyahu and whatever comes in the next 48 hours? you netanyahu and whatever comes in the next 48 hours?— next 48 hours? you could tell when joe biden next 48 hours? you could tell when joe biden was _ next 48 hours? you could tell when joe biden was at _ next 48 hours? you could tell when joe biden was at the _ next 48 hours? you could tell when joe biden was at the podium - next 48 hours? you could tell when joe biden was at the podium in - next 48 hours? you could tell when joe biden was at the podium in the | joe biden was at the podium in the white _ joe biden was at the podium in the white house — joe biden was at the podium in the white house this _ joe biden was at the podium in the white house this afternoon, - joe biden was at the podium in the white house this afternoon, just i joe biden was at the podium in the . white house this afternoon, just how frustrated _ white house this afternoon, just how frustrated he — white house this afternoon, just how frustrated he is— white house this afternoon, just how frustrated he is about _ white house this afternoon, just how frustrated he is about the _ white house this afternoon, just how frustrated he is about the cracks - frustrated he is about the cracks that have — frustrated he is about the cracks that have been _ frustrated he is about the cracks that have been laid _ frustrated he is about the cracks that have been laid bare - frustrated he is about the cracks that have been laid bare and - frustrated he is about the cracks that have been laid bare and his| that have been laid bare and his relationship _ that have been laid bare and his relationship with— that have been laid bare and his relationship with the _ relationship with the israeli leader. _ relationship with the israeli leader. he _ relationship with the israeli leader, he was— relationship with the israeli leader, he was having - relationship with the israeli leader, he was having to. relationship with the israeli . leader, he was having to field questions _ leader, he was having to field questions about, _ leader, he was having to field questions about, when - leader, he was having to field questions about, when did i leader, he was having to fieldl questions about, when did you leader, he was having to field - questions about, when did you last took to— questions about, when did you last took to prime — questions about, when did you last took to prime minister— questions about, when did you lastj took to prime minister netanyahu? they have — took to prime minister netanyahu? they have not _ took to prime minister netanyahu? they have not talked _ took to prime minister netanyahu? they have not talked since - took to prime minister netanyahu? they have not talked since the - took to prime minister netanyahu? they have not talked since the 21st| they have not talked since the 21st of august. — they have not talked since the 21st ofaugust, his— they have not talked since the 21st of august, his teams _ they have not talked since the 21st of august, his teams said - they have not talked since the 21st of august, his teams said they - they have not talked since the 21st of august, his teams said they are| of august, his teams said they are in touch— of august, his teams said they are in touch 12 — of august, his teams said they are in touch 12 hours _ of august, his teams said they are in touch 12 hours a _ of august, his teams said they are in touch 12 hours a day, _ of august, his teams said they are in touch 12 hours a day, and - of august, his teams said they are in touch 12 hours a day, and the i in touch 12 hours a day, and the fact is, — in touch 12 hours a day, and the fact is, there _ in touch 12 hours a day, and the fact is, there is _ in touch 12 hours a day, and the fact is, there is a _ in touch 12 hours a day, and the fact is, there is a vacuum - in touch 12 hours a day, and the fact is, there is a vacuum in- fact is, there is a vacuum in america _ fact is, there is a vacuum in america because _ fact is, there is a vacuum in america because the - fact is, there is a vacuum in. america because the election fact is, there is a vacuum in- america because the election is on four weeks' — america because the election is on four weeks' time, _ america because the election is on four weeks' time, because - america because the election is on four weeks' time, because the i four weeks' time, because the inauguration _ four weeks' time, because the inauguration of— four weeks' time, because the inauguration of the _ four weeks' time, because the inauguration of the next - four weeks' time, because the i inauguration of the next president is not _ inauguration of the next president is not until— inauguration of the next president is not untiljanuary, _ inauguration of the next president is not untiljanuary, and _ inauguration of the next president is not untiljanuary, and israel- inauguration of the next president is not untiljanuary, and israel is i is not untiljanuary, and israel is really— is not untiljanuary, and israel is really exploiting _ is not untiljanuary, and israel is really exploiting this _ is not untiljanuary, and israel is really exploiting this advantage i is not untiljanuary, and israel is i really exploiting this advantage and it's very— really exploiting this advantage and it's very frustrating _ really exploiting this advantage and it's very frustrating for _ really exploiting this advantage and it's very frustrating for president i it's very frustrating for president biden _ it's very frustrating for president biden since _ it's very frustrating for president biden. since the _ it's very frustrating for president biden. since the 7th _ it's very frustrating for president biden. since the 7th of- it's very frustrating for president biden. since the 7th of october. biden. since the 7th of october there _ biden. since the 7th of october there has— biden. since the 7th of october there has been— biden. since the 7th of october there has been intense - biden. since the 7th of october. there has been intense diplomacy biden. since the 7th of october- there has been intense diplomacy on there has been intense diplomacy on the american — there has been intense diplomacy on the american side, _ there has been intense diplomacy on the american side, they— there has been intense diplomacy on the american side, they have - there has been intense diplomacy on the american side, they have been i the american side, they have been talking _ the american side, they have been talking about — the american side, they have been talking about there _ the american side, they have been talking about there being - the american side, they have been talking about there being a - talking about there being a ceasefire _ talking about there being a ceasefire soon, _ talking about there being a ceasefire soon, that- talking about there being a ceasefire soon, that has. talking about there being a l ceasefire soon, that has not happened, president- ceasefire soon, that has not happened, president bidenl ceasefire soon, that has not- happened, president biden very frustrated — happened, president biden very frustrated that _ happened, president biden very frustrated that netanyahu - happened, president biden very frustrated that netanyahu has i happened, president biden very. frustrated that netanyahu has not
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listened _ frustrated that netanyahu has not listened to — frustrated that netanyahu has not listened to his _ frustrated that netanyahu has not listened to his advice, _ frustrated that netanyahu has not listened to his advice, but - frustrated that netanyahu has not listened to his advice, but the i listened to his advice, but the bottom — listened to his advice, but the bottom line _ listened to his advice, but the bottom line is _ listened to his advice, but the bottom line isjoe _ listened to his advice, but the bottom line isjoe biden- listened to his advice, but the bottom line isjoe biden is- bottom line isjoe biden is absolutely— bottom line isjoe biden is absolutely committed i bottom line isjoe biden is absolutely committed to i bottom line isjoe biden is. absolutely committed to the bottom line isjoe biden is— absolutely committed to the security of israet _ absolutely committed to the security of israet it— absolutely committed to the security of israet it is— absolutely committed to the security of israet it is a — absolutely committed to the security of israel. it is a tough— absolutely committed to the security of israel. it is a tough region - absolutely committed to the security of israel. it is a tough region for- of israel. it is a tough region for israei— of israel. it is a tough region for israei and — of israel. it is a tough region for israel and america _ of israel. it is a tough region for israel and america has- of israel. it is a tough region for israel and america has their- of israel. it is a tough region for. israel and america has their back. let's _ israel and america has their back. let's get — israel and america has their back. let's get into _ israel and america has their back. let's get into the _ israel and america has their back. let's get into the thinking - israel and america has their back. let's get into the thinking of- israel and america has their back. let's get into the thinking of what| let's get into the thinking of what might be going on in terms of the israeli war cabinet, where do you sense israel may target in terms of iran, and indeed what they target, what will it tell us about what risks they are willing to take? i don't know. i don't want to be in the business of predicting where strikes may fall, but clearly various options have been mentioned, number one is the oil refineries. let me bring up a map which might help viewers navigate through this, but carry on. f(dill help viewers navigate through this, but carry om— but carry on. oil refineries we heard joe _ but carry on. oil refineries we heard joe biden _ but carry on. oil refineries we heard joe biden mentioned, i but carry on. oil refineries we - heard joe biden mentioned, possibly heard joe biden mentioned, possibly in a gaffe yesterday, it felt like something his advisers definitely would have preferred he did not mention, and then he said they were being discussed, and earlier today... being discussed, and earlier toda , . , ., , being discussed, and earlier toda , . , ., i, ., today... oil prices immediately shot
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u - . and today... oil prices immediately shot up- and then _ today... oil prices immediately shot up. and then today _ today... oil prices immediately shot up. and then today making - today... oil prices immediately shot up. and then today making clear i today... oil prices immediately shot| up. and then today making clear that he would choose _ up. and then today making clear that he would choose other _ up. and then today making clear that he would choose other options. i up. and then today making clear that he would choose other options. but i he would choose other options. but of course the maximalist end of this would be the nuclearfacilities. which former prime minister barak said there would be no point, it would be entirely symbolic, do you buy that argument because iran has made enough progress with its nuclear programme that it would make no big difference? he nuclear programme that it would make no big difference?— no big difference? he has made a lot of rouress no big difference? he has made a lot of progress definitely _ no big difference? he has made a lot of progress definitely over _ no big difference? he has made a lot of progress definitely over the i no big difference? he has made a lot of progress definitely over the last i of progress definitely over the last three _ of progress definitely over the last three years and president biden, since _ three years and president biden, since he has been in office, but over— since he has been in office, but over the — since he has been in office, but over the last few days it seems this voice _ over the last few days it seems this voice within — over the last few days it seems this voice within the israeli political establishment is becoming louder and louder, _ establishment is becoming louder and louder, only i think today or yesterday bennett said this was a once—in—a—lifetime opportunity, this is a golden _ once—in—a—lifetime opportunity, this is a golden opportunity that israel can use _ is a golden opportunity that israel can use to— is a golden opportunity that israel can use to neutralise the threat of
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iranians _ can use to neutralise the threat of iranians nuclear programme, this is that time, _ iranians nuclear programme, this is that time, the main deterrent tool iran that time, the main deterrent tool iran has— that time, the main deterrent tool iran has been using, like hezbollah are significantly weaker, but obviously going for the iranians nuclear— obviously going for the iranians nuclear sites will have serious regional— nuclear sites will have serious regional and trans— regional ramifications, although it would be a good _ ramifications, although it would be a good opportunity for israel to do that and _ a good opportunity for israel to do that and maybe iran is not exactly in the _ that and maybe iran is not exactly in the strongest position, but obviously targeting something like that will— obviously targeting something like that will generate a series of consequences.— that will generate a series of consequences. that will generate a series of conseuuences. ~ , ., ., consequences. and you see that as a measurable — consequences. and you see that as a measurable escalation, _ consequences. and you see that as a measurable escalation, targeting i consequences. and you see that as a measurable escalation, targeting oil| measurable escalation, targeting oil exports, mainly going to china, for example? we exports, mainly going to china, for examle? ~ ., �* exports, mainly going to china, for examle? ., �* ~ ., , exports, mainly going to china, for examle? ~ ., , ., example? we don't know exactly, iran is producing — example? we don't know exactly, iran is producing 2-4,000,000 _ example? we don't know exactly, iran is producing 2-4,000,000 barrels i example? we don't know exactly, iran is producing 2-4,000,000 barrels a i is producing 2—4,000,000 barrels a day, that— is producing 2—4,000,000 barrels a day, that constitutes roughly 2—3% of the _ day, that constitutes roughly 2—3% of the overall global production, and as— of the overall global production, and as you know because of the
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sanctions — and as you know because of the sanctions the main buyer of iranians oil at _ sanctions the main buyer of iranians oil at the _ sanctions the main buyer of iranians oil at the moment is china, so theoretically it can't have major consequences for the oil price giobaity. _ consequences for the oil price globally, but that only depends on what kind — globally, but that only depends on what kind of action iran will take. that's— what kind of action iran will take. that's what— what kind of action iran will take. that's what i was going to ask you, obviously, whatever israel does, there is a follow—on action from iran, something like that. that creates an _ iran, something like that. that creates an existential - iran, something like that. that creates an existential crisis for the islamic republic in iran has enough — the islamic republic in iran has enough teeth to flex its muscles as welt _ enough teeth to flex its muscles as welt the _ enough teeth to flex its muscles as well. the straight is an obvious... extremeiy— well. the straight is an obvious... extremely difficult to do that because we need to consider the american — because we need to consider the american military might in the region — american military might in the region. 20% of global oil actually goes _ region. 20% of global oil actually goes through this narrow strait. is this plausible that this could happen, though? it is
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this plausible that this could happen, though? it is certainly in the political _ happen, though? it is certainly in the political discourse, _ happen, though? it is certainly in the political discourse, if- happen, though? it is certainly in the political discourse, if you i the political discourse, if you listen — the political discourse, if you listen to people in the iranians political— listen to people in the iranians political establishment, they are constantly talking about that. so at least it _ constantly talking about that. so at least it is _ constantly talking about that. so at least it is in the discourse, but to what _ least it is in the discourse, but to what extent do they have the military— what extent do they have the military capability and willingness is a different matter. it military capability and willingness is a different matter.— military capability and willingness is a different matter. it felt to me that until last — is a different matter. it felt to me that until last friday's _ is a different matter. it felt to me that until last friday's killing i that until last friday's killing of hassan nasrallah, the iranians wanted to put a dampener on all of this, they did not want this conflict escalating. the this, they did not want this conflict escalating. the killing of hassan nasrallah _ conflict escalating. the killing of hassan nasrallah has _ conflict escalating. the killing of hassan nasrallah has been i conflict escalating. the killing of hassan nasrallah has been a i conflict escalating. the killing of| hassan nasrallah has been a step change but my question is whether the iranians will continue to escalate because clearly there will be an israeli response, or whether the supreme leader feels like there is value trying to de—escalate. this is value trying to de-escalate. this is all open — is value trying to de-escalate. this is all open as _ is value trying to de-escalate. this is all open as we _ is value trying to de-escalate. this is all open as we go _ is value trying to de—escalate. this is all open as we go into this weekend. we did not know where we would be seven days ago when hassan nasrallah was killed. itrufith
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would be seven days ago when hassan nasrallah was killed.— nasrallah was killed. with only one exce tion, nasrallah was killed. with only one exception, benjamin _ nasrallah was killed. with only one exception, benjamin netanyahu i nasrallah was killed. with only one | exception, benjamin netanyahu has promised _ exception, benjamin netanyahu has promised that the islamic republic has to— promised that the islamic republic has to pay a big price and something we have _ has to pay a big price and something we have learnt of the last ten years. — we have learnt of the last ten years, usually does what he says, so i personally— years, usually does what he says, so i personally think there will be a retaliation, but what kind of retaliation, but what kind of retaliation is open to debate. we must retaliation is open to debate. must leave retaliation is open to debate. 7 must leave it there, thank you very much forjoining us, laura, we will come back to you in a moment. green growth is this government central mission. green growth is this government's central mission, they say, and after weeks of fairly gloomy immediate assessments of the economy, today the prime minister chancellor and energy secretary travelled to the north west to annouce a £22 billion investment in green energy. here's what the pm had to say. we see the new future on our horizon with carbon capture and storage, the largest programme in this new and vital industry anywhere in the
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world, that is incredible, right here in liverpool bay and on the east coast in teesside. for our energy intensive industries like glass—making here or some mental steel or ceramics, you are familiar with these, the security that the future belongs to them, that the necessary mesh —— necessary mission of decarbonisation does not mean deindustrialisation. but at the same time, in one key area — electrical vehicles here and across europe — there are signs that the public are not buying the numbers of cars needed for the transition, with car companies writing to the chancellor with their concerns. so has the public bought into this long—term green growth transformation, especially in terms of changes to their lifestyles? we have a new panel, law has come back to talk to us about that, we have the former reform uk executive,
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recently resigned, and ellie mackay, an environmental scientist, the so thank you forjoining us. big investment in our future, but those carbon industry numbers, is the public buying into the sorts of changes needed? it is public buying into the sorts of changes needed?— public buying into the sorts of changes needed? it is a really important _ changes needed? it is a really important thing _ changes needed? it is a really important thing to _ changes needed? it is a really important thing to think i changes needed? it is a reallyl important thing to think about, changes needed? it is a really i important thing to think about, how we get the public�*s understanding and willingness to vote in support these new policies and investment as well as the literal buying. and we have seen these incentive schemes like the heat pump incentive scheme work well with a real surge in applications for these things, so there is no reason why incentives like these, electric vehicle applications could work in a similar way, but one thing that is really important is a lack of potential education and understanding by the general public that leads to a lack of support, so the carbon capture storage technology we have seen,
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massive investment, there is only a 20% public support for this technology in the uk at the moment, despite the fact that we are in a position due to our geology and the unique geology of the uk to be a world leader in this technology, so i think there has got to be a lot of work in teaching people and explaining and communicating the science behind what we are doing so that we can have more public buying. you are from a party whose positioning and this has been to assume a backlash, but you did ok in the election but you only have five mps. i quite agree! but we will see what happened — i quite agree! but we will see what happened though it happens in five years _ happened though it happens in five years i'm — happened though it happens in five years. i'm quite surprised, i have never— years. i'm quite surprised, i have never heard — years. i'm quite surprised, i have never heard the heat pump rolled out as a great _ never heard the heat pump rolled out as a great success before. it is not as a great success before. it is not a great _ as a great success before. it is not a great success. people are not buying _ a great success. people are not buying into it unless it is heavily subsidised. buying into it unless it is heavily subsidised-— buying into it unless it is heavily subsidised. ., , ., subsidised. that is not the case in the us. the whole problem with this and why you don't— the whole problem with this and why you don't have the public by in, the
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sort of— you don't have the public by in, the sort of personal financial buy in of individuals— sort of personal financial buy in of individuals is because once those subsidies— individuals is because once those subsidies stop, people then realise the prices — subsidies stop, people then realise the prices go up, and the same with the prices go up, and the same with the leaf— the prices go up, and the same with the leaf car, — the prices go up, and the same with the leaf car, the renault lee. it was massively subsidised, it sold guite _ was massively subsidised, it sold quite well, then when the subsidy stopped, — quite well, then when the subsidy stopped, people stood back. the whole _ stopped, people stood back. the whole problem is, without the subsidies, you do not have that public— subsidies, you do not have that public by— subsidies, you do not have that public by n, and without that, they feel they— public by n, and without that, they feel they are hit twice, both through taxes and personally. this is not _ through taxes and personally. this is not the — through taxes and personally. this is not the way forward. it doesn't seem _ is not the way forward. it doesn't seem to — is not the way forward. it doesn't seem to work. and with the 25 there were £22_ seem to work. and with the 25 there were £22 billion... seem to work. and with the 25 there were £22 billion. . ._ were £22 billion... over 25 years, i must say- — were £22 billion... over 25 years, i must say. agreed. _ were £22 billion... over 25 years, i must say. agreed. but _ were £22 billion... over 25 years, i must say. agreed. but they - were £22 billion... over 25 years, i must say. agreed. but they want i were £22 billion... over 25 years, i | must say. agreed. but they want to ut in must say. agreed. but they want to put in holes — must say. agreed. but they want to put in holes under _ must say. agreed. but they want to put in holes under the _ must say. agreed. but they want to put in holes under the north - must say. agreed. but they want to put in holes under the north sea. i put in holes under the north sea. that seems to almost be dead money. we are _ that seems to almost be dead money. we are doing this to maintain some industry _ we are doing this to maintain some industry. we are not exporting every 'ob, industry. we are not exporting every job, not— industry. we are not exporting every job, notjust— industry. we are not exporting every job, notjust grangemouth port talbot. — job, notjust grangemouth port talbot, but we are not exporting everything. —— grangemouth or port talbot _ everything. —— grangemouth or port talbot but— everything. —— grangemouth or port talbot. but to not export those jobs. _ talbot. but to not export those jobs. we — talbot. but to not export those jobs, we need masses more subsidies and mass _ jobs, we need masses more subsidies and mass is _ jobs, we need masses more subsidies and mass is more taxpayer money. it
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seems _ and mass is more taxpayer money. it seems to— and mass is more taxpayer money. it seems to me — and mass is more taxpayer money. it seems to me throwing good money after bad _ after bad. isn't the issue here that the changes required for net zero, the consumer changes, they are quite shy about making the case, avoiding the argument rather than making it? you need consistency and policy, and if you _ you need consistency and policy, and if you think— you need consistency and policy, and if you think of — you need consistency and policy, and if you think of the _ you need consistency and policy, and if you think of the us, _ you need consistency and policy, and if you think of the us, if— you need consistency and policy, and if you think of the us, if donald - if you think of the us, if donald trump — if you think of the us, if donald trump is — if you think of the us, if donald trump is re—elected _ if you think of the us, if donald trump is re—elected president, | if you think of the us, if donald. trump is re—elected president, if if you think of the us, if donald i trump is re—elected president, if he comes— trump is re—elected president, if he comes back— trump is re—elected president, if he comes back for— trump is re—elected president, if he comes back for another— trump is re—elected president, if he comes back for another term, - trump is re—elected president, if he comes back for another term, he i trump is re—elected president, if hel comes back for another term, he will try to _ comes back for another term, he will try to roil— comes back for another term, he will try to roll back — comes back for another term, he will try to roll back everything _ comes back for another term, he will try to roll back everything joe - try to roll back everything joe biden— try to roll back everything joe biden has— try to roll back everything joe biden has done _ try to roll back everything joe biden has done in— try to roll back everything joe biden has done in terms- try to roll back everything joe biden has done in terms of. try to roll back everything joe i biden has done in terms of the try to roll back everything joe - biden has done in terms of the green transition, _ biden has done in terms of the green transition, so— biden has done in terms of the green transition, so that _ biden has done in terms of the green transition, so that makes _ transition, so that makes american consumers — transition, so that makes american consumers naturally— transition, so that makes american consumers naturally wary- transition, so that makes american consumers naturally wary is - transition, so that makes american consumers naturally wary is that i transition, so that makes americanl consumers naturally wary is that we all know _ consumers naturally wary is that we all know donald _ consumers naturally wary is that we all know donald trump _ consumers naturally wary is that we all know donald trump has - consumers naturally wary is that we i all know donald trump has questioned the existence — all know donald trump has questioned the existence of— all know donald trump has questioned the existence of climate _ all know donald trump has questioned the existence of climate change - all know donald trump has questioned the existence of climate change and i the existence of climate change and call it _ the existence of climate change and call it a _ the existence of climate change and call it a hoax — the existence of climate change and call it a hoax. if— the existence of climate change and call it a hoax. if you _ the existence of climate change and call it a hoax. if you look _ the existence of climate change and call it a hoax. if you look at - call it a hoax. if you look at electric— call it a hoax. if you look at electric vehicles, _ call it a hoax. if you look at electric vehicles, for- call it a hoax. if you look at i electric vehicles, for example, and iwill— electric vehicles, for example, and iwill say— electric vehicles, for example, and iwill say i — electric vehicles, for example, and iwill say i do — electric vehicles, for example, and i will say i do have _ electric vehicles, for example, and i will say i do have one, _ electric vehicles, for example, and i will say i do have one, and - electric vehicles, for example, and i will say i do have one, and it's. i will say i do have one, and it's fine _ i will say i do have one, and it's fine driving _ i will say i do have one, and it's fine driving around _ i will say i do have one, and it's fine driving around the - i will say i do have one, and it's fine driving around the east i i will say i do have one, and it's. fine driving around the east coast of the _ fine driving around the east coast of the states. _ fine driving around the east coast of the states, but _ fine driving around the east coast of the states, but driving - fine driving around the east coast of the states, but driving to i fine driving around the east coast of the states, but driving to ohio| of the states, but driving to ohio recently. — of the states, but driving to ohio recently, cross—country, - of the states, but driving to ohio recently, cross—country, very- recently, cross—country, very difficult — recently, cross—country, very difficult to — recently, cross—country, very difficult to get _ recently, cross—country, very difficult to get charger, - recently, cross—country, very. difficult to get charger, actually. long lines — difficult to get charger, actually. long lines. you _ difficult to get charger, actually. long lines. you discover- difficult to get charger, actually. long lines. you discover when. difficult to get charger, actually. long lines. you discover when itj difficult to get charger, actually. i long lines. you discover when it is very cold _ long lines. you discover when it is very cold are — long lines. you discover when it is very cold are very— long lines. you discover when it is very cold are very hot, _ long lines. you discover when it is very cold are very hot, your - long lines. you discover when it is| very cold are very hot, your battery goes _ very cold are very hot, your battery goes flat~ _ very cold are very hot, your battery goes flat~ lt— very cold are very hot, your battery aoes flat. , ., ., ~ ~ goes flat. it is not the route 66 trum -i goes flat. it is not the route 66 trump! not _ goes flat. it is not the route 66 trump! not at— goes flat. it is not the route 66
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trump! not at all! _ goes flat. it is not the route 66 trump! not at all! but - goes flat. it is not the route 66 trump! not at all! but you i goes flat. it is not the route 66| trump! not at all! but you might goes flat. it is not the route 66 i trump! not at all! but you might say biden has been _ trump! not at all! but you might say biden has been quite _ trump! not at all! but you might say biden has been quite canny. - trump! not at all! but you might say biden has been quite canny. massive subsidies. but _ biden has been quite canny. massive subsidies. but he _ biden has been quite canny. massive subsidies. but he has _ biden has been quite canny. massive subsidies. but he has reframed i biden has been quite canny. massive subsidies. but he has reframed it i biden has been quite canny. massive subsidies. but he has reframed it as| subsidies. but he has reframed it as a security issue. _ subsidies. but he has reframed it as a security issue, beating _ subsidies. but he has reframed it as a security issue, beating chinese i a security issue, beating chinese industry rather than being a nikko warrior. let me bring in ellie again. we heara warrior. let me bring in ellie again. we hear a lot about an existential crisis. —— and e co—warrior. but how much do they care about future generations? it is a very personal, very individual response and some people care more than others, but one thing to put into context is we need to have a very long—term thinking in our strategy, which is unusual, becausemicro our strategy, which is unusual, becausemicr— our strategy, which is unusual, becausemicr. , , ., ., becausemicro pretty rare, one might controversially _ becausemicro pretty rare, one might controversially suggest, _ becausemicro pretty rare, one might controversially suggest, in _ becausemicro pretty rare, one might controversially suggest, in british i controversially suggest, in british politics! controversially suggest, in british olitics! , ,, , controversially suggest, in british olitics! , ,, politics! exactly! especially as it makes sense — politics! exactly! especially as it makes sense that _ politics! exactly! especially as it makes sense that any _ politics! exactly! especially as it makes sense that any current i makes sense that any current government is looking at short—term retention of voters, and they are not willing to risk anything, which is why this announcement today is really impressive that this government is willing to invest in something they will not necessarily see a return in for many years and
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they might not be in power at that point. but i think if we consider that the cost of not doing anything is significantly higher than any of the numbers... but is significantly higher than any of the numbers...— is significantly higher than any of the numbers... but that is over a coule the numbers... but that is over a couple of — the numbers... but that is over a couple of generations, _ the numbers... but that is over a couple of generations, isn't i the numbers... but that is over a couple of generations, isn't it? i couple of generations, isn't it? that is kind of my point. iflot that is kind of my point. not particularly- _ that is kind of my point. not particularly. we _ that is kind of my point. not particularly. we are - that is kind of my point. iirrt particularly. we are looking at costs skyrocketing in the next decade, certainly by 2030 and 2050, which is where our net zero targets are. we're looking at $38 trillion of costs, so for example, in the uk, the current of maintaining our one point five targets is about 1% of gdp. if we don't do it, it will cost is about 20% of gdp in the not—too—distant is about 20% of gdp in the not—too—dista nt future. is about 20% of gdp in the not—too—distant future. when you think about that, it is a lot of money to spend £10,000 on fixing your roof, when you have bills to pay and a food crisis, a poverty crisis and kids to feed, and i totally understand people are unwilling to spend. but if it is
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going to cost you £200,000 in ten years, it is a no—brainer. i'm sorry, i am being years, it is a no—brainer. i'm sorry, iam being ignorant. the i'm sorry, lam being ignorant. the 38 trillion — i'm sorry, lam being ignorant. the 38 trillion you're talking about is the cost — 38 trillion you're talking about is the cost of complying with net zero targets? _ the cost of complying with net zero tar: ets? ., the cost of complying with net zero taraets? ., ., , _,, targets? no, that is the cost if we don't comply- _ targets? no, that is the cost if we don't comply. cost _ targets? no, that is the cost if we don't comply. cost to _ targets? no, that is the cost if we don't comply. cost to watch. i targets? no, that is the cost if we | don't comply. cost to watch. sorry i'm bein: don't comply. cost to watch. sorry i'm being stupid. _ don't comply. cost to watch. sorry i'm being stupid. this _ don't comply. cost to watch. sorry i'm being stupid. this is _ don't comply. cost to watch. sorry i'm being stupid. this is why - i'm being stupid. this is why there are so many _ i'm being stupid. this is why there are so many big — i'm being stupid. this is why there are so many big numbers- i'm being stupid. this is why there | are so many big numbers involved. i'm being stupid. this is why there l are so many big numbers involved. i don't know where this comes from. it don't know where this comes from. [ii is a don't know where this comes from. is a huge don't know where this comes from. it is a huge number. actually, it is likely to be a vast underestimate, because this is the direct costs of climate impacts, so you are having to rebuild your infrastructures, as we are seeing in the us at the moment with bridges and things wiped out by her against. huge direct costs, and the health care costs, but it doesn't take into account some of those wider social costs. these are modelled, projected costs? yes, these are modelled, projected costs? yes. and _ these are modelled, projected costs? yes. and the — these are modelled, projected costs? yes, and the projections are quite underestimated. you look a bit sceptical, but isn't the issue that this will be a great british growth industry? you can get behind? another great... 50,000 jobs, 4000 immediately.
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where? _ 50,000 jobs, 4000 immediately. where? we have a third of europe's carbon storage capacity, the saudi arabia of wind power... but the prime minister... do you think_ but the prime minister... do you think it _ but the prime minister... do you think it will — but the prime minister... do you think it will kick—start _ but the prime minister... do you think it will kick—start growth, i think it will kick—start growth, this massive _ think it will kick—start growth, this massive cabin— think it will kick—start growth, i this massive cabin investment? not in _ this massive cabin investment? not in the — this massive cabin investment? not in the slightest. _ this massive cabin investment? not in the slightest. all- this massive cabin investment? not in the slightest. all it- this massive cabin investment? i not in the slightest. all it seems to dom — not in the slightest. all it seems to dom it — not in the slightest. all it seems to do... it will not kick—start growth, _ to do... it will not kick—start growth, it— to do... it will not kick—start growth, it will only kick—start growth — growth, it will only kick—start growth in _ growth, it will only kick—start growth in the prime minister's choseh— growth in the prime minister's chosen field, but not in the rest of the economy. that is what we need. as a proud _ the economy. that is what we need. as a proud american and a proud baton, _ as a proud american and a proud baton, and you _ as a proud american and a proud baton, and you know— as a proud american and a proud baton, and you know this - as a proud american and a proud baton, and you know this very. as a proud american and a proud . baton, and you know this very well, british— baton, and you know this very well, british productivity— baton, and you know this very well, british productivity has _ baton, and you know this very well, british productivity has been- british productivity has been tagging _ british productivity has been tagging since _ british productivity has been lagging since 2008. - british productivity has been lagging since 2008. —— - british productivity has been lagging since 2008. —— a - british productivity has been. lagging since 2008. —— a proud british productivity has been- lagging since 2008. —— a proud brit. will this— lagging since 2008. —— a proud brit. will this massive _ lagging since 2008. —— a proud brit. will this massive investment- lagging since 2008. —— a proud brit. will this massive investment in- will this massive investment in carhoh— will this massive investment in carbon capture _ will this massive investment in carbon capture really _ will this massive investment inj carbon capture really kick—start growth — carbon capture really kick—start growth when _ carbon capture really kick—start growth when the _ carbon capture really kick—start growth when the cost - carbon capture really kick—start growth when the cost of - carbon capture really kick—startj growth when the cost of energy carbon capture really kick—start . growth when the cost of energy in britain _ growth when the cost of energy in britain are — growth when the cost of energy in britain are so— growth when the cost of energy in britain are so high? _ growth when the cost of energy in britain are so high? your- growth when the cost of energy in britain are so high? your bills - growth when the cost of energy in. britain are so high? your bills went up britain are so high? your bills went up this— britain are so high? your bills went up this week — britain are so high? your bills went up this week. the _ britain are so high? your bills went up this week. the last _ britain are so high? your bills went up this week. the last coal—fired i up this week. the last coal—fired electrical— up this week. the last coal—fired electrical plant— up this week. the last coal—fired electrical plant closed _ up this week. the last coal—fired electrical plant closed this - electrical plant closed this week. the cost — electrical plant closed this week. the cost of— electrical plant closed this week. the cost of energy— electrical plant closed this week. the cost of energy is _ electrical plant closed this week. the cost of energy is four - electrical plant closed this week. the cost of energy is four times. the cost of energy is four times what _ the cost of energy is four times what it— the cost of energy is four times what it is— the cost of energy is four times what it is irr— the cost of energy is four times what it is in the _ the cost of energy is four times what it is in the us, _ the cost of energy is four times what it is in the us, so - the cost of energy is four times what it is in the us, so how- the cost of energy is four times what it is in the us, so how canj what it is in the us, so how can britain — what it is in the us, so how can britain be — what it is in the us, so how can britain be productive _ what it is in the us, so how can britain be productive and - what it is in the us, so how can britain be productive and doesl britain be productive and does this really— britain be productive and does this really kick—start— britain be productive and does this really kick—start that _ britain be productive and does this really kick—start that productivity? | really kick—start that productivity? 0ne really kick—start that productivity? one of— really kick—start that productivity? one of the — really kick—start that productivity? one of the major—
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really kick—start that productivity? one of the major benefits, - really kick—start that productivity? one of the major benefits, i- really kick—start that productivity? one of the major benefits, i was l one of the major benefits, i was having 78 billion tonnes worth of storage space, over a third of the whole of europe, —— one of the major benefits of ask... for whole of europe, -- one of the ma'or benefits of ask. . — benefits of ask... for carbon capture? _ capture? yes. even the currently projected investment, to reach 30 million tonnes, a fraction of our potential storage space, that is more than what we are capturing globally at the moment, so the uk, the potential we have, we have enough storage space to actually sell our storage space to actually sell our storage space abroad. irate space to actually sell our storage space abroad-— space abroad. we will be transporting, _ space abroad. we will be transporting, no - space abroad. we will be transporting, no doubt . space abroad. we will be j transporting, no doubt in space abroad. we will be l transporting, no doubt in a space abroad. we will be - transporting, no doubt in a carbon free fashion, carbon dioxide across the world _ free fashion, carbon dioxide across the world to sink into the north see _ sea. certainly sea. - certainly from sea. — certainly from europe, it is sea. certainly from europe, it is very easy. the north sea is right there between us, so it is very easy. but the cost of actually setting up each of _ but the cost of actually setting up each of these projects is deferential. of - deferential. of course. read different costs for things _ of course. read different costs for things i_ of course. read different costs for things. i understand in canada, where — things. i understand in canada, where the _ things. i understand in canada, where the price of power coming out of a power— where the price of power coming out of a power station that had carbon capture _ of a power station that had carbon capture doubled. we have, as you
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pointed _ capture doubled. we have, as you pointed out, a 10% increase in our fuel hitts — pointed out, a 10% increase in our fuel billsjust this pointed out, a 10% increase in our fuel bills just this week. are we prepared — fuel bills just this week. are we prepared to do that? are we going to see greater— prepared to do that? are we going to see greater cuts to winter fuel allowance and things? the argument is obviously whether _ allowance and things? the argument is obviously whether we _ allowance and things? the argument is obviously whether we are - allowance and things? the argument is obviously whether we are reliant i is obviously whether we are reliant on, what we have been talking about, the middle east and russia and if it costs a lot. if we were insulated, that we would save billions of pounds. but we must pick up. good to have you here. obviously, you are no longer reform's communications executive. i longer reform's communications executive. . ., ., executive. i am no longer. perhaps — executive. i am no longer. perhaps give _ executive. i am no longer. perhaps give us _ executive. i am no longer. perhaps give us a - executive. i am no longer. perhaps give us a more i executive. i am no longer. i perhaps give us a more frank reflections about the past year, the performance of your party at the... general election... performance of your party at the... general election. . ._ general election... bringing down the government _ general election... bringing down the government with _ general election... bringing down the government with your - general election... bringing down the government with your vote. i the government with your vote. and the government with your vote. ahd i_ the government with your vote. and i am — the government with your vote. and i am perfectly— the government with your vote. and i am perfectly happy- the government with your vote. and i am perfectly happy to - the government with your vote. i and i am perfectly happy to have done _ and i am perfectly happy to have done so — done so. helping elect a labour done — helping elect a labour government in 'ust helping elect a labour government in just over— helping elect a labour government in just over a _ helping elect a labour government in just over a third — helping elect a labour government in just over a third of— helping elect a labour government in just over a third of the _ helping elect a labour government in just over a third of the vote. - just over a third of the vote. didh't— just over a third of the vote. didn't lloyd _ just over a third of the vote. didn't lloyd hailsham - just over a third of the vote. didn't lloyd hailsham called just over a third of the vote. - didn't lloyd hailsham called the elective — didn't lloyd hailsham called the elective dictatorship? _ elective dictatorship? he also— elective dictatorship? he also knows - elective dictatorship? he also knows an - elective dictatorship? i he also knows an awful elective dictatorship? - he also knows an awful lot elective dictatorship? _ he also knows an awful lot about that sort — he also knows an awful lot about that sort of thing. i would suggest actually— that sort of thing. i would suggest
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actually the blame for conservative government is actually with the conservatives themselves. people have this — conservatives themselves. people have this mad idea some of these voters. _ have this mad idea some of these voters. the — have this mad idea some of these voters, the party owns a vote. it doesn't. _ voters, the party owns a vote. it doesn't. if— voters, the party owns a vote. it doesn't. if a — voters, the party owns a vote. it doesn't. if a party is not good enough — doesn't. if a party is not good enough to— doesn't. if a party is not good enough to retain that, guess what? people _ enough to retain that, guess what? people vote for other people. this is something that happened, and in tiny seats, — is something that happened, and in tiny seats, but last night in blackpool, reform increased their vote from — blackpool, reform increased their vote from 9% to 38% in a labour ward and took— vote from 9% to 38% in a labour ward and took that — vote from 9% to 38% in a labour ward and took that word. in and took that word. in a _ and took that word. in a council by—election? council. it is tiny seats, but if we start _ council. it is tiny seats, but if we start doihg — council. it is tiny seats, but if we start doing that across the country, you will— start doing that across the country, you will see — start doing that across the country, you will see a greater belief, the fact many— you will see a greater belief, the fact many people did not vote for us partly— fact many people did not vote for us partly because they did not believe we could _ partly because they did not believe we could win, and having won seats under— we could win, and having won seats uhder first — we could win, and having won seats under first past the post, that has been _ under first past the post, that has been proven otherwise. another reason _ been proven otherwise. another reason they didn't vote for us, frankly. — reason they didn't vote for us, frankly. is— reason they didn't vote for us, frankly, is because our systems were rubbish _ frankly, is because our systems were rubbish that — frankly, is because our systems were rubbish that micro voting systems? 0h, internal systems! oh, internal systems! we had oh, internalsystems! we had candidates who are not vetted and were _ we had candidates who are not vetted and were disastrous. if you look at the polling — and were disastrous. if you look at the polling and the data, we lost about _ the polling and the data, we lost about 5000 votes just in the last two weeks because of that. but does a revival in the
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conservative _ but does a revival in the conservative party - but does a revival in the | conservative party knock but does a revival in the - conservative party knock you out? i conservative party knock you out? i don't _ conservative party knock you out? tdoh't assume _ conservative party knock you out? i don't assume that. _ conservative party knock you out? i don't assume that. i— conservative party knock you out? i don't assume that. i don't - conservative party knock you out? i i don't assume that. i don't assume that _ i don't assume that. i don't assume that i_ i don't assume that. i don't assume that idoh't— i don't assume that. i don't assume that. i don't see anybody in that list that. idon't see anybody in that list of— that. i don't see anybody in that list of four— that. i don't see anybody in that list of four currently that is there that is— list of four currently that is there that is going to make that revival happened. what i find astonishing is this labour— happened. what i find astonishing is this labour government that seems to be spending its first few months... are they— be spending its first few months... are they doctor frankenstein to the tory monster?! they are desperately trying _ tory monster?! they are desperately trying to— tory monster?! they are desperately trying to reawaken it by being so extraordinarily incompetent. i find that amazing. obviously, we came across each other many years ago in your you keep days, and you joined the referendum... i'm quite curious to put this to a brexit supporter of some type. when you look at the polls review guv for about a year or two now, —— the polls from ugo, brexit is no longer 50—50. more people do not think it is successful, it is not going well that micro certainly not as well as i would like it to have gone.
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from your perspective, it has not gone as well? we were run by a government that saw brexit— we were run by a government that saw brexit as _ we were run by a government that saw brexit as a _ we were run by a government that saw brexit as a disaster to be mitigated rather— brexit as a disaster to be mitigated rather than an opportunity to be graphed~ — rather than an opportunity to be graphed. if you go into negotiations secretly— graphed. if you go into negotiations secretly thinking the other side is right, _ secretly thinking the other side is right, you — secretly thinking the other side is right, you will not succeed. that will not change _ right, you will not succeed. that will not change in _ right, you will not succeed. that will not change in the _ right, you will not succeed. trust will not change in the next five years? no, but every day, particularly with the common law system, we grow further— the common law system, we grow further apart, the common law system, we grow furtherapart, and also, so the common law system, we grow further apart, and also, so does europe — further apart, and also, so does europe it — further apart, and also, so does europe it is— further apart, and also, so does europe. it is not static, but dynamic _ europe. it is not static, but dynamic— europe. it is not static, but d namic. . ., ., dynamic. have you won over the young --eole? dynamic. have you won over the young peeple? his— dynamic. have you won over the young people? his brexit _ dynamic. have you won over the young people? his brexit sustainable - people? his brexit sustainable without winning over young people, as polling shows? fair without winning over young people, as polling shows?— as polling shows? fair point, but i think what was _ as polling shows? fair point, but i think what was interesting - as polling shows? fair point, but i think what was interesting in - as polling shows? fair point, but i think what was interesting in the l think what was interesting in the election— think what was interesting in the election was, you start to see a switch — election was, you start to see a switch. now in under 25s, you see reform _ switch. now in under 25s, you see reform doubling the tory vote. realty?! — reform doubling the tory vote. reall ?! , ., ., ., really?! yes, reform are doing well. who else is — really?! yes, reform are doing well. who else is going _ really?! yes, reform are doing well. who else is going to _ really?! yes, reform are doing well. who else is going to be _ really?! yes, reform are doing well. who else is going to be that - really?! yes, reform are doing well. who else is going to be that voice? i who else is going to be that voice? frank— who else is going to be that voice? frank reflections from a political operative! good to have you on—board! you may have seen last night's show and the story of the uk ceding the chagos islands to mauritius. paddy spoke to a clearly furious
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backbench labour mp, peter lamb. i think it's the last vestiges of our colonial policy by the foreign office. i've tried to work with the foreign office on various occasions in relation to the chagossians. i have consistently found them to be unwilling to take seriously the concerns of that community will help address their needs, despite the fact that the state owes them, and here we are yet again ignoring the wishes of that community as to what should happen with their homeland in the future. so we will say goodbye to la, but welcome one of mr lam's constituents. maxwell evenor is a chagossian and is here in the newsnight studio. thanks forjoining us. what is your view? the majority of the population don't agree _ the majority of the population don't agree with — the majority of the population don't agree with the — the majority of the population don't agree with the agreement, - the majority of the population don't agree with the agreement, because j agree with the agreement, because the chagossians _ agree with the agreement, because the chagossians have _ agree with the agreement, because the chagossians have never- agree with the agreement, because the chagossians have never been. the chagossians have never been heard _ the chagossians have never been heard a — the chagossians have never been heard a deat— the chagossians have never been heard. a deal was— the chagossians have never been heard. a deal was done - the chagossians have never been heard. a deal was done in- the chagossians have never been heard. a deal was done in 1965. the chagossians have never beenl heard. a deal was done in 1965 to expel— heard. a deal was done in 1965 to e>
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they were not involved. again - expel them from their home, where they were not involved. again now, | they were not involved. again now, 60 years _ they were not involved. again now, 60 years on. — they were not involved. again now, 60 years on, after— they were not involved. again now, 60 years on, after all— they were not involved. again now, 60 years on, after all the _ 60 years on, after all the sufferings, _ 60 years on, after all the sufferings, after- 60 years on, after all the sufferings, after the - 60 years on, after all the| sufferings, after the crime against humanity. — sufferings, after the crime against humanity, here _ sufferings, after the crime against humanity, here we _ sufferings, after the crime against humanity, here we are _ sufferings, after the crime against humanity, here we are again, - humanity, here we are again, and that the _ humanity, here we are again, and that the deat— humanity, here we are again, and that the deal being _ humanity, here we are again, and that the deal being done - humanity, here we are again, and that the deal being done without. humanity, here we are again, and i that the deal being done without the chagossians' — that the deal being done without the chagossians' voices _ that the deal being done without the chagossians' voices being _ that the deal being done without the chagossians' voices being heard. - chagossians' voices being heard. you were — chagossians' voices being heard. you were born _ chagossians' voices being heard. you were born in _ chagossians' voices being heard. you were born in mauritius - chagossians' voices being heard. you were born in mauritius and i chagossians' voices being heard. - you were born in mauritius and never got to visit the chagos islands, your home, essentially, oryour family's home. what does this deal now mean for people like you and yourfamilies? ibis now mean for people like you and your families?— your families? as i said, we have never had — your families? as i said, we have never had a _ your families? as i said, we have never had a voice, _ your families? as i said, we have never had a voice, we _ your families? as i said, we have never had a voice, we have - your families? as i said, we have never had a voice, we have never your families? as i said, we have - never had a voice, we have never had a choice. _ never had a voice, we have never had a choice. so _ never had a voice, we have never had a choice. so now— never had a voice, we have never had a choice. so now to _ never had a voice, we have never had a choice, so now tojust— never had a voice, we have never had a choice, so now tojust say— never had a voice, we have never had a choice, so now to just say that - a choice, so now tojust say that mauritius — a choice, so now tojust say that mauritius is _ a choice, so now tojust say that mauritius is going _ a choice, so now tojust say that mauritius is going to _ a choice, so now tojust say that mauritius is going to benefit - a choice, so now to just say that. mauritius is going to benefit from this deal. — mauritius is going to benefit from this deal. and _ mauritius is going to benefit from this deal, and that _ mauritius is going to benefit from this deal, and that we _ mauritius is going to benefit from this deal, and that we as - this deal, and that we as chagossians _ this deal, and that we as chagossians have - this deal, and that we as chagossians have again. this deal, and that we as. chagossians have again to this deal, and that we as - chagossians have again to be this deal, and that we as _ chagossians have again to be ruled by another— if you want to carry on watching newsnight, turn to be if you want to carry on watching newsnight, turn to he stay with us on bbc news for all the headlines here in the us.
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i'm caitriona perry in washington and this is bbc world news america. israeli air strikes destroy a key road near lebanon's border crossing with syria. thousands have been fleeing that way, israel says it was being used to transport weapons. kamala harris and donald trump step up campaigning in key swing states across the us, with a month to go until election day. the world health organization approves the first diagnostic test for mpox — in its effort to ease a disease crisis in central africa. welcome to world news america.
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