straight after this programme. welcome to hardtalk. i'm allan little. what is it like to grow up in the shadow of a parent who was the world's most revered political prisoner, and an iconic champion of democracy and human rights? aung san suu kyi has two sons whom she left behind in britain when they were children, placing what she saw then as the needs of her native myanmar above those of herfamily. my guest today is kim aris,

the younger of those sons who, after decades of silence, has finally decided to speak out. leader is approaching 80 and in declining health. what is her fate? kim aris, welcome to hardtalk. hi, allan. how do you do? you've been silent all your life, and you're in your mid—40s now, and you've finally decided

to seek the limelight and to speak out. why did you stay quiet for so long? and why have you decided to seek a platform now? well, ijust feel that the situation in burma is so desperate, and there's so little news coming out on what's going on over there, someone needs to be saying something. and again, my mother's been locked up for completely false charges in prison, and i can't imagine what the conditions are like for her. so, i need to do what i can to try and get her out of there. unlike her, you're not used to the limelight. do you find it daunting? it is a little, but you have to do what you can. until you were ten, you had a pretty normal suburban upbringing. your mother was a kind

of classic school gates, full—time mum at home. and then, things changed dramatically. what are your memories of family life in oxford before she left? well, i can only think of it as a normal upbringing. like you say, it's, er, hard to think of it any other ways. i went to school, she made sure i did my homework, cooked us dinner. so, yes, very normal upbringing, as far as i'm concerned. and a happy family? yes. and then, when you were ten, she decided to go to burma to, as it was then known, to look after her own mother. and while she was there, her priorities seemed to have changed. what happened when she was there for private domestic reasons, to draw her into a political life? well, she's always said to my father that, should her country need her, she would go back to try and do what she could to help. and, given herfather�*s position as a founder of independent burma... yeah, it's important to say her father was assassinated when she was just two, and he's now widely revered as the father of the nation.

yes. so, she always felt a certain responsibility, shall we say, towards the nation. and then, when she was back in the country looking after her mother, and all the political unrest was kicking off, shejust got drawn into it. your father said that he had a premonition when she left, that things had changed forever. did you have any sense of that at ten years old? not so much. i think i first really realised something was going on when i was out there with her in burma, and saw what was happening. so, you were able to visit her in the early months she was there — what was that like? yes, i was actually with her when she was first put under house arrest, and i guess i was 12 or 13 at the time. that was an experience. what was it like? well, as a child, you kind

of roll with things, so i took it in my stride. but it was odd, having the military come in and take away all the student revolutionaries, cut the phone lines, and install armed guards all around the compound. was it frightening? not so much. did it make you worry for your mother's safety? like i say, at that age, you roll with the blows a bit easier. so, i wasn't too worried at the time. when did you come to understand the powerful mystique that your mother's family name had, the political potential of it? when did you come to see how strong that was? i guess it was around that period, seeing how much support she had, and how much support my grandfather had. your mother and father, i believe, had a pact, when they got married. she made him promise that he wouldn't stand in the way if there came a time when her country needed her, or she believed her country needed her. well, he certainly didn't do that. he supported her every way he could. and he was instrumental in her getting the nobel peace prize.

what did you think of that pact? did you — when you were old enough to understand it, did you approve of it? did you support it? yes. i think, as far as i'm concerned... ..the path she chose is the correct one. you know, she had to put her country in front of her family. there were so many more people who were in desperate need. but it meant you would grow up as a motherless child, really, in your mother's absence. what kind of impact do you think that had on you emotionally, in your development into adulthood? i'm sure it's affected me in many ways, but... ..i imagine primarily, i've learned to cut myself off from my emotions somewhat. in what sense, what do you mean? just that i'm a little bit deadened to emotions, because i've had to keep myself cut off from them. and how emotional is it for you now to be playing this new public role? it's difficult, in that i don't want to be a public figure, but at the same time,

i know that it's the right thing to be doing. and before, when my mother was under house arrest, at least i knew where she was. now she's in prison in naypyidaw, even though it gets misreported that she's under house arrest still. and that's just not the case. and when you were able to go and visit her in those early years, were you able to pick up a normal mother—and—son relationship, or was there some kind of inevitable estrangement? i've always been pretty easy with the relationship we've had. she once threatened to go on hunger strike, didn't she? she did go on hunger strike for 11 days. that was near the start of her house arrest. and what did you think of that?

that was a worrying time. did you try to talk her out of it? not me personally. i think my father probably did at the time. and is that when you came to understand that things really had changed dramatically for yourfamily? well, by then, she was already under house arrest. so, yes, i realised things weren't going to be going back to normal any time soon. let's talk a little bit about your father, because he was left without a wife, in effect. how do you think it affected him? because — and he also died quite young, when you were very young, and he was unable to see her, even though he knew he was dying. what was it like to go through that as a young man? that was difficult. i think he would've loved to have seen my mother before he died. and obviously, she would've loved to have been with him, as well.

but the military didn't allow him to visit her, even though prince charles at the time said that he would send all the necessary medical equipment and nurses with him. the military said he would be a drain on the country's medical resources. when she was released from house arrest in 2010, she was able to meet her grandchildren — your children — for the first time. what was that like? that was great. and just being able to have her come over to england and spend some time with her extended family. let's talk about the period she spent in de facto office, de facto leader of the country. she won the free election in 2015. she couldn't become president because she was married to a non—myanmar citizen and had two non—myanmar citizen sons, but she was still the country's leader. her international reputation at that time was absolutely towering. she had enormous moral authority. she was an icon of the idea of peaceful resistance. but wielding power would change that. what were your hopes for her at that time, and do you think that the democratic world had unrealistic expectations of how far

she would be able to go in bringing change to myanmar? i think the expectations were unrealistic, in that... ..she wasn't in control of the country. you know, this was a parallel government shared with the military, and they weren't keeping her informed of their actions. she was completely misrepresented over what was going on with the rohingya, in that people were saying that she was colluding with the military, which was utter rubbish. i want to come on to the rohingya crisis in a second. but really, in the first couple of years, she was being attacked by her former devoted followers, who said she was using the courts to — a piece of legislation called 66(d) — to lock up, without bail, dozens of people who were critical of her,

that she seemed to be using the very laws that had been used to silence her to silence her critics in turn. is that a fair criticism? no, it's not. i think, for those criticisms to have any veracity, they need to be investigated thoroughly. and i don't think they have been. the former us ambassador, derek mitchell, said that she had, and i quote this, "a tense relationship with civil society, "a top—down style of leadership, that there was "a gridlock in decision—making "and frustration over the state of the peace process, "and no clear economic plan". did she have a sense that she was not in control of all the power, all the levers of power in the country? well, of course she wasn't in control of all the power. like i said, it was a parallel government with the military largely in control of... ..things. and it was still in transition,

democracy was a fledgling movement still, and there was a lot of work still to be done. and she was trying to do everything she could through socioeconomic reform, to make sure that those who had caused so many injustices and human rights abuses in the past would be brought to justice. so, let's talk about the rohingya crisis — that was what damaged her reputation probably irredeemably. her country's violent crackdown on the muslim minority, known as the rohingya, starting in 2016, tens of thousands of people killed, international human rights groups documented thousands of rapes of women and girls, the detention and torture of men and boys. 700,000 fleeing across the border to bangladesh, where they still live, in what is now the world's biggest refugee camps. why did your mother not speak out against this? she did speak out against it. she went to the hague, and, if you read the transcript of what she said there at the time, it's very clear that she wasn't accepting what was happening to the rohingya, and she was trying to do everything she could to stop those abuses. and, as can be seen now,

the situation for them is far worse than it was then. but what i think shocked many of her former supporters was that very appearance at the international court ofjustice at the hague, where she didn't actually use the word "rohingya", she didn't use the word "rape", and the un human rights council report accused her and her government of contributing to the atrocities by acts and omissions. that's the un talking. yes, and i'm afraid to say the un got it wrong, as did the international community and the media at the time. i'm notjust saying that because i'm her son, i'm saying that because i've actually looked at the transcript of what she said, and looked at a lot of other evidence that show that she was not in control of what the military was doing. she was not colluding with them in any way, shape, orform. she was trying everything within her power to bring justice to those people who had abused the rohingya. not only that, but the whole

situation with the rohingya was misrepresented, in that arsa, which is a terrorist organisation, which calls itself the arakan rohingya salvation army, they are not there for the rohingya, yeah? and now, arsa are still abusing the rohingya, and the military are conscripting them and forcing them to kill their own. a 22—year—old woman called hasina begum was at the hague, as well, at the same time. she said that ten members of herfamily had been killed by the military, and that she held your mother at least partly responsible. she said, "we don't want to see her face. "she doesn't support her people, "she supports the military." several other nobel laureates denounced your mother at this time. canada stripped her of her honorary citizenship, and amnesty international withdrew its highest honour, the ambassador

of conscience award. when you set that against what your mother sacrificed throughout the duration of her life, did it hurt that so many people denounced her? it hurts me for sure. i think that, given what she has sacrificed, people could at least look into things a bit more before denouncing her, so... ..as they did. and...if they did look into it, they'd see that she was actually trying to do everything she could to maintain a very fragile peace. peace and democracy had to come before the rohingya situation, because the rohingya situation could not have been resolved without peace and democracy. was she worried that if she spoke out more critically, more firmly about what the military were doing with the rohingya, she would have been toppled, and the country would have been plunged into civil war?

i don't think she was worried about her being toppled, so much as the democratic process being toppled. yeah. do you wish she had spoken out more firmly? i think she spoke out a great deal. it's just that what she was saying wasn't reported. what were the circumstances of herfall from power? well, at the time, when the rohingya situation was kicking off, the west was extremely islamophobic and... ..was responsible for the deaths of millions of muslims. and i can only imagine that they were trying to deflect some of that on someone who was actually doing her very best to resolve the situation. so, you believe that if she had spoken out, if she'd said more, if she'd done what many people expected her to do, then she would've tipped the country into conflict? well, she lost power anyway, and the country is in conflict now. what do you know about where your mother is, and how she's being treated? as far as i'm aware,

she's in prison in naypyidaw, and the conditions there are terrible, from all i've gathered. sean turnell, her economic adviser, australian economic adviser, who was locked up at the same time as her, describes the conditions under which he was held — and they're atrocious. so, i can only imagine that it's similarfor her. when did you last speak to her, and what was the context of that? i spoke to herjust prior to the coup, and she'd said that something was going to happen. was she worried? i think so. frightened? i wouldn't say so. have you had any letters from her while she's been detained? i've had one letter from her, yeah. when was that? that was...beginning of this year. and was she guarded in what she said in that letter? yes, she couldn't say much. we know that the letters will be read. what is the state of the war that the country is now undergoing?

well, the military is not able to... ..win any ground at the moment. their tactics of air strikes don't seem to be working, and they appear to be losing ground every day. and what about the opposition? they're united by their opposition to the military dictatorship, but are they united by anything else? i think they are united in a shared vision of a federal democratic burma in the future. but it's going to take a lot of work to get there. do you think it's because your mother's reputation was so damaged internationally by her years in power, that the world has kind of taken its eye off myanmar, despite the privations that people are undergoing? i think it's certainly contributed. there's other factors involved, as well, such as the other conflicts going on around the world, and the natural disasters affecting us all.

but the situation in burma is amongst the worst. what do you want the democratic world, but the international community in general to do about myanmar? i'd like them to actually take notice of what's happening there, and to... ..support the nug in what they're trying to do. the nug being? the national unity government, which is kind of a government in exile. so, if they actually started to treat them as a legitimate government and got into open dialogue with them, that would be a start. your mother was a very powerful, unifying force — remains quite a powerful, unifying force. but there's nobody in the wings, there doesn't seem to be anybody else like her to draw this disparate opposition movement together. that's a big problem, isn't it? it is, and i think that's... ..partly to do with how she was built up as an icon.

and nobody else in burma has taken on that mantle. you're part of a political dynasty, in a way. do you feel any personal responsibility, the way your mother felt — clearly, she felt some destiny had been carved out for her by her father's example. do you feel any responsibility yourself to get involved in the politics of myanmar? not in the politics, no. i'm happy to try and get involved in raising awareness of what's happening there, in trying to bring humanitarian aid to those who need it. but politics doesn't interest me. your mother devoted much of her life to the idea of nonviolent resistance. the resistance in myanmar is now extremely violent. do you think the values that she devoted her life to now have been shredded in myanmar? and that there is, for the time being, anyway, no real place in the country for a nonviolent appeal? no, i think her stance is even more relevant

than it ever has been. the nonviolent approach is the only one that will actually ever lead to some sort of reconciliation. the violence which is happening in the country at the moment is only making things worse. who do you think has the upper hand in the war? i would like to think that it's the resistance forces. can they reconcile with the generals, do you think? that would be very difficult. i don't think anybody�*s going to accept any military rule going forwards. you've lived all your life in the knowledge that your mother was not forcibly separated from you, that she chose it, she made a conscious and deliberate choice to put country before family. and i wanted to get some sense of how you've grown reconciled to that.

nelson mandela's daughter, zindzi mandela, once famously said that her father might be father of the nation, "but he hadn't been much of a father to me". gillian slovo, the south african british novelist, both her parents were south african revolutionaries. her mother was murdered, herfather was on the run for decades. and she said on this programme, "it's very difficult being the child of revolutionaries". and i wonder, is there any part of you that has felt — that identifies with that sentiment? i would say it is difficult, being a child of a revolutionary, but i don't resent it. i know that what she's doing is necessary, and... ..the people of burma have suffered far greater than i ever have. so, you know. and what about her personal future? i know it's very difficult to know how she is, but she's said to be suffering some illness now. what do you know about that? yes, she's got ongoing dental problems and other ailments, but i don't believe she's receiving the treatment

she needs whilst in prison. like i said, the conditions there in burmese prisons are terrible, and prisoners often die. are you worried that you might not see her again? it is a concern. i do hope that the country will move forwards, and she'll be freed before too long. and is there a role for her, if she is freed? can she play a role in trying to bring the conflict to an end? i believe there is still a place for her to help with the reconciliation process. would you want her to go back into government? not particularly. absolutely not? well, that's up to her. and if she's still got the strength and the will to do so, then... ..i�*d support her. and you — it's important, obviously, for you to keep that hope alive, that you'll see her. yes. and i do sincerely believe

that burma will get back on its road to democracy, and she will see freedom. kim aris, thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you, allan. hello there, good evening. a very messy and unsettled picture weather—wise as we head through the next few days. but it was a pretty start earlier on this morning. lots of red skies as captured by our weather watchers. and of course, the heaviest downpours today were out towards the west, some of the showers pushing further eastwards at times. not as much sunshine

as we saw yesterday, but still the chance of some more bright and sunny spells as we go through the next few days, accompanied by some rather blustery showers. brisk southerly winds so the air is mild, warm for the time of year, even. and it's unsettled because low pressure is the dominant force. it's out towards the west of ireland. of course, all of these bands of rain showers swirling around it — that sets the scene for the rest of tonight. there will be further bands of rain just gradually pushing northwards and eastwards, but some long clear spells across northern areas of england and through the southern half of the uk as we head towards dawn tomorrow. here, temperatures could potentially drop back into high single figures. otherwise a mild start, double figures pretty much across the board. now, tomorrow, the low pressure remains out towards the west. again, there will be furthershowers, longer spells of rain at times.

it's quite a cloudy picture across scotland, for example, and there will be rain on and off here throughout the day. the early rain clears away from northern ireland, moves into north—west england, and there could be some heavy, possibly thundery, downpours across south—west england into southern wales as we head through the afternoon. but you could catch a shower almost anywhere. a little less frequent out towards the east. some sunny spells and in the best of the sunshine, temperatures will peak at 16—19 celsius. that's above the seasonal average. now, the low pressure sinks a little further southwards as we head through tuesday so some of the focus of the heaviest downpours could be across the southern half of the uk. there'll be quite frequent showers here, but again some bright and some sunny spells in between. another band of rain just pushes northwards into scotland. again, there will be quite a lot of cloud here, but once again in the best of the sunshine, it will feel warm for the time of year. temperatures generally 14—18 celsius. now, wednesday's weather needs watching. this deep area of low pressure contains the remnants of hurricane kirk, and at the moment, we think that the worst of the weather will be across northern france, moving into the low countries, heavy rain and strong winds. but some of that rain could move into kent, perhaps. we're likely to see some

very blustery winds down the north sea facing coasts as that low pulls away, and then it turns a lot colder. bye— bye.

this is bbc news. further strikes in beirut, after israeli forces issue new evacuation orders for parts of southern lebanon. it's as israel continues its offensives in lebanon and in gaza, almost one year on from the october 7th attacks by hamas. and hurricane milton heads for florida, just days after hurricane helene tore through the southeastern united states. hello.

we begin in the middle east — where there are developments on several fronts. more israeli strikes have been reported in beirut — after israel issued further evacuation orders in parts of southern lebanon. this footage — of a huge explosion — is from just the last couple of hours.