for the end of the week. southwards for the end of the week. a very chilly feel indeed through thursday and into friday. thanks, ben. let's return to our top story and rejoin clive in israel. it wasn't just here in israel where people were marking one year since thre october 7th attacks. president biden lit a ceremonial candle at the white house. he said the us was committed to israel's security and that "far too many civilians have suffered far too much during this year of co nflict". sir keir starmer called october the 7th "the darkest day injewish history since the holocaust". i say again, the hostages must be returned. immediately and unconditionally. they will always be uppermost in our minds and i pay tribute again to theirfamilies for their incredible dignity and their determination.

there was a moment of silence at the united nations and if you want to carry on watching newsnight, please turn over to bbc two, or watch on iplayer. next it's newsnight. as israel marks one year since the hamas assault on its people, its enemies still want to destroy israel, and israel is still trying to destroy its enemies. so how will these wars end?

good evening, welcome to newsnight. a year on from hamas�*s killing of 1,200 people in southern israel and the capture of over 251 hostages, israel finds itself fighting wars on multiple fronts. rockets have just been fired towards tel aviv, which has been marking one year since the hamas attacks of october 7th. the bbc�*s team took cover as israel's defence systems swung into action. it's believed this latest attack came from lebanon. millions of people across central israel would have rushed to shelters. tonight, the israeli defense force says its fighterjets launched missiles at hezbollah�*s "intelligence headquarters" in beirut. the day itself has been marked by commemoration ceremonies in israel and across the world. israel is grieving, still,

and praying for the return of the remaining 97 people still being held by hamas, designated as a terrorist group by several governments including the uk. tonight we're going to reflect on some of the events of today and also ask how does israel and its allies try and end these wars? plus we'll hear from a palestinian journalist and mother of two who we've spoken to on the programme before, forced from her home in gaza, where almost 42,000 people have been killed by israel's troops, according to the hamas—run health ministry. here with us tonight, sir mark lyall grant, the uk ambassador to the un from 2009 to 2015 and uk's national security adviser 2015 to 2017. nomi bar yaacov from the foreign affairs think tank chatham house and who works as a peace negotiator. dr hassanjabareen, director of adalah, a palestinian human rights organaisation in israel.

and dame louise ellman, honorary president of the jewish labour movement. welcome to all of you, thank you for being with us tonight. first, though, we're going to speak to sharone lifschitz. her mother and father were taken hostage by hamas a year ago. her mum was released on october 24th last year, her dad is somewhere in gaza still. thank you for talking to us again, sharone. i won't ask you first of all, how have you been marking today? —— i want to ask you. i have you been marking today? -- i want to ask you.— want to ask you. i flew in and arrived this _ want to ask you. i flew in and arrived this morning - want to ask you. i flew in and arrived this morning and - want to ask you. i flew in andj arrived this morning and then want to ask you. i flew in and - arrived this morning and then drove with a couple friends up north to the commemoration of a daughter and mother of one of my best friends who was murdered, the daughter was 13 and the mother, they were murdered in the grandmother's home, shot while they were embracing. so we

mark that and then i came back and picked up my mum and we went to the service for the murdered 56 people from my community, we did a small service, personal, intimate service forthe service, personal, intimate service for the kibbutz and then i came back to my mum's. you for the kibbutz and then i came back to my mum-— for the kibbutz and then i came back to my mum's-_ to my mum's. you will know that toniuht, to my mum's. you will know that tonight. mr _ to my mum's. you will know that tonight, mr netanyahu _ to my mum's. you will know that tonight, mr netanyahu has - to my mum's. you will know that l tonight, mr netanyahu has spoken to my mum's. you will know that - tonight, mr netanyahu has spoken of his determination to bring the remaining hostages home, including yourfather. i wonder remaining hostages home, including your father. i wonder if you think the widening of the conflict will bring your dad home any sooner. i certainly do not. i think that if i was a hostage and i was sitting in a tunnel somewhere underneath khan younis or gaza city, i would be petrified of the prospect. my mum

even was petrified of soldiers coming to try and rescue them. we know that quite a few were murdered as a result of israeli army approaching. it's only a deal that will bring them back, that has not changed, but neither has the deal come forward. and we are now facing a year on, knowing that the hostages are in dreadful condition. and feeling a sense of despair and a sense of... failure, ifeela huge sense of... failure, ifeela huge sense of... failure, ifeela huge sense of failure. sense of... failure, i feel a huge sense of failure.— sense of... failure, i feel a huge sense of failure. how much do you worry about _ sense of failure. how much do you worry about your _ sense of failure. how much do you worry about your father? - sense of failure. how much do you worry about your father? i - sense of failure. how much do you worry about your father? i don't i worry about your father? i don't think ou worry about your father? i don't think you can — worry about your father? i don't think you can worry _ worry about your father? i don't think you can worry any - worry about your father? i don't think you can worry any more i worry about your father? i don't i think you can worry any more than worry about your father? i don't - think you can worry any more than i worry could i absolutely worry for him, ifind it hard to wish worry could i absolutely worry for him, i find it hard to wish for him, it has been a year and him, ifind it hard to wish for him, it has been a year and i find him, ifind it hard to wish for him, it has been a year and ifind it hard to not be able to console him.

you know, i met today with many of the survivors. we lost so many, so many of his friends were murdered in the tunnels or were murdered on the 7th of october. it's very hard to tell them how we go on from here when they are in their 70s and 80s conduct there are the younger ones that i can see the future for but it's very exhausting for them. they have seen the ruination of everything they worked for, both their community and the bridges they have built with the communities in gaza. �* , ., ., gaza. and “ust to remind our audience — gaza. and just to remind our audience, because _ gaza. and just to remind our audience, because you - gaza. and just to remind our audience, because you told l gaza. and just to remind our. audience, because you told us gaza. and just to remind our- audience, because you told us about the volunteering work your mum and dad did when you were on the programme last year, your parents volunteered for a charity that helped palestinians get medical treatment outside the gaza strip. and i wonder what hope there is any

contact like that, any cooperation like that at some point in the future. i like that at some point in the future. , ., , , future. i listen to my mum, she “ust, future. i listen to my mum, she just. you _ future. i listen to my mum, she just. you know. _ future. i listen to my mum, she just, you know, she _ future. i listen to my mum, she just, you know, she came - future. i listen to my mum, she just, you know, she came back| future. i listen to my mum, she| just, you know, she came back a future. i listen to my mum, she - just, you know, she came back a year ago —17 days and in her last interview in israeli media she spoke very bravely and said she absolutely believed that only diplomatic agreement between us and our neighbours cancer core future for all of us. —— can secure a future. she also said that we have made peace with the germans after the second world war and we have no choice but to reach agreements. it is a long road, we have seen immense cruelty towards our people and i took it as a member of kibbutz nir oz, as a child of that kibbutz. we have seen what happens when a total

valtteri and regime take over society and the level of cruelty and torture that hamas and civilians showed the people of kibbutz nir oz were on that day, it's very hard to reconcile it with wish for a good neighbour —— a totalitarian regime. but both society have separate tremendously, you see the destroyed houses of the villages across, both our communities are destroyed and we need have prayed and true leaders that will lead us away from the path of destruction and towards a path thatis of destruction and towards a path that is sustainable for both nations. there is no alternative. sharone, thank you very much for talking to us this evening, we really appreciate your time, thank you. sharone lifschitz, whose father is still being held in gaza. as i mentioned a little earlier, almost 42,000 people have been killed by isralei troops in gaza

and 96,000 have been wounded since october 7th, according to the hamas—run health ministry. the un says 70,000 homes have been destroyed. lebanon's health ministry say 2,000 people have been killed in lebanon. the government there say over a million have been forced from their homes. 60,000 people have been forced from their homes in the north of israel, according to the israeli government. today us presidentjoe biden says "far too many civilians have suffered far too much" since what he called the "unspeakable brutality" of hamas' attack. louise ellman, tell us what you are reflecting on one year on. i louise ellman, tell us what you are reflecting on one year on.— reflecting on one year on. i visited with labour— reflecting on one year on. i visited with labour friends _ reflecting on one year on. i visited with labour friends of _ reflecting on one year on. i visited with labour friends of israel- reflecting on one year on. i visited | with labour friends of israel before the massacres took place and i visited a peaceful place, where people living there were friendly with the palestinian neighbours and sought peace. when i went there again a few months later injanuary,

i saw a very different place, burned—out buildings, horrendous situations, photographs of young couples on the front door burned—out houses where they had been burned alive. a community destroyed. it was absolutely horrendous. and i think it is very important that piece is made but to do that, it requires hamas to come to agreement with israel, hamas to recognise the state of israel exists, and for iran, which is supporting hamas and indeed it has polemical in the north and the houthi is in yemen, to be held back so that these places are not used as proxies by iran, who really has no interest in the welfare of people in the region. it's a very broad picture and the answer of course is eventually to have a palestinian state alongside israel, but first you have the hostages who have to be returned, the area has to

be peaceful, gaza has to be run, by palestinians but not the genocidal hamas so there are a lot of issues to be addressed and it's very urgent that it happens. to be addressed and it's very urgent that it happens-_ that it happens. nomi bar yaacov, how would — that it happens. nomi bar yaacov, how would you _ that it happens. nomi bar yaacov, how would you say _ that it happens. nomi bar yaacov, how would you say israel - that it happens. nomi bar yaacov, how would you say israel has - that it happens. nomi bar yaacov, i how would you say israel has changed since october seven? i how would you say israel has changed since october seven?— since october seven? i would say israel is in _ since october seven? i would say israel is in very _ since october seven? i would say israel is in very deep _ since october seven? i would say israel is in very deep trauma - since october seven? i would say israel is in very deep trauma one | israel is in very deep trauma one year— israel is in very deep trauma one year one. — israel is in very deep trauma one year one. i— israel is in very deep trauma one year one, i think the shock and horror— year one, i think the shock and horror of— year one, i think the shock and horror of what happened still reverberates in society. hamas is still vowing to try to eliminate the state. _ still vowing to try to eliminate the state. as— still vowing to try to eliminate the state, as art hezbollah, and frankly. _ state, as art hezbollah, and frankly, as are iran. we have just heard, _ frankly, as are iran. we have just heard, it's — frankly, as are iran. we have just heard, it's not straight forward. and i_ heard, it's not straight forward. and i believe the only solution, like our— and i believe the only solution, like our previous speakers like timber— like our previous speakers like timber is— like our previous speakers like timber is to live side by side in peace — timber is to live side by side in peace but— timber is to live side by side in peace but a lot has to be worked out before _ peace but a lot has to be worked out before that — peace but a lot has to be worked out before that. —— like sharone lifschita _ before that. —— like sharone lifschitz. recognising that israel

is also _ lifschitz. recognising that israel is also traumatised and it's not only— is also traumatised and it's not only the — is also traumatised and it's not only the gazans and lebanese who have taken, you know, just been... i mean, _ have taken, you know, just been... i mean. the _ have taken, you know, just been... i mean, the sheer numbers speak for themselves. i'm not comparing the numbers— themselves. i'm not comparing the numbers i'm not comparing the scope of the _ numbers i'm not comparing the scope of the trauma but i think there has to be _ of the trauma but i think there has to be a _ of the trauma but i think there has to be a recognition that there is a trauma _ to be a recognition that there is a trauma on— to be a recognition that there is a trauma on both sides and has been a blindness _ trauma on both sides and has been a blindness on — trauma on both sides and has been a blindness on both sides. neither side has — blindness on both sides. neither side has been wanting to see the other, _ side has been wanting to see the other, each side supporting of its own and — other, each side supporting of its own and if— other, each side supporting of its own and if you watch israeli television, for example, the one hand _ television, for example, the one hand and — television, for example, the one hand and aljazeera on the other, you see _ hand and aljazeera on the other, you see two different narratives taking _ you see two different narratives taking place at the same time, neither— taking place at the same time, neither of— taking place at the same time, neither of which refers to the other so i neither of which refers to the other so i think— neither of which refers to the other so i think that is a stage one but i agree _ so i think that is a stage one but i agree that — so i think that is a stage one but i agree that the only way forward, there _ agree that the only way forward, there are — agree that the only way forward, there are to make peace plan is on there are to make peace plan is on the table _ there are to make peace plan is on the table at — there are to make peace plan is on the table at the moment, new and old ideas, _ the table at the moment, new and old ideas. one _ the table at the moment, new and old ideas, one put forward the person who started the 2006 war, former israeli _ who started the 2006 war, former israeli minister had almost and

former— israeli minister had almost and former palestinian foreign minister nassar— former palestinian foreign minister nassar kidwell, who is also yasser arafat's _ nassar kidwell, who is also yasser arafat's nephew and both of them, serious _ arafat's nephew and both of them, serious experience, not spring chickens, _ serious experience, not spring chickens, have both put forward a plan for _ chickens, have both put forward a plan for peace. the plan is there, the israelis — plan for peace. the plan is there, the israelis and palestinians recognising the mistakes they have made _ recognising the mistakes they have made in _ recognising the mistakes they have made in the past, willing or having put a _ made in the past, willing or having put a plan — made in the past, willing or having put a plan forward, those appliances, one needs to have vision beyond _ appliances, one needs to have vision beyond the _ appliances, one needs to have vision beyond the current government in israel— beyond the current government in israel and — beyond the current government in israel and palestine. beyond the current government in israeland palestine. i don't beyond the current government in israel and palestine. i don't think much _ israel and palestine. i don't think much will— israel and palestine. i don't think much will happen in terms of peace with the _ much will happen in terms of peace with the current israeli government. who has— with the current israeli government. who has passed in the connecticut that there — who has passed in the connecticut that there against the palestinian state _ that there against the palestinian state we — that there against the palestinian state. we need to plan for what comes— state. we need to plan for what comes after —— in the connecticut. but they cannot be peace until hamas recognises that israel has a right to stay as a jewish state. and the

horrors of what happened now were launched a year ago when hamas launched a year ago when hamas launched its genocidal attack on israeli civilians, killing, maiming, raping, mutilating, and hunting down young people at a music festival before they murdered them and kidnap them. the responsibility there is hamas's and i agree that peace is to be made and it takes two parties to find that and it has to be done but we must not forget how this was launched. ., ., �* ~' we must not forget how this was l launched.— the launched. no, i don't think... the horrors were _ launched. no, i don't think... the horrors were launched _ launched. no, i don't think... the horrors were launched by - launched. no, i don't think... the horrors were launched by the - horrors were launched by the terrorist organisation. let horrors were launched by the terrorist organisation. let me bring in sir mike. — terrorist organisation. let me bring in sir mike, how _ terrorist organisation. let me bring in sir mike, how do _ terrorist organisation. let me bring in sir mike, how do you _ terrorist organisation. let me bring in sir mike, how do you assess - terrorist organisation. let me bring in sir mike, how do you assess the | in sir mike, how do you assess the israeli response to october seven —— sir mark. in israeli response to october seven -- sir mark. ., . israeli response to october seven -- sir mark. .,. ., , sir mark. in the face of this horrific and _ sir mark. in the face of this horrific and brutal - sir mark. in the face of this horrific and brutal attack i sir mark. in the face of this horrific and brutal attack by sir mark. in the face of this - horrific and brutal attack by hamas it was _ horrific and brutal attack by hamas it was inevitable _ horrific and brutal attack by hamas it was inevitable israel— horrific and brutal attack by hamas it was inevitable israel would - horrific and brutal attack by hamas it was inevitable israel would react| it was inevitable israel would react very strongly — it was inevitable israel would react very strongly militarily _ it was inevitable israel would react very strongly militarily against - very strongly militarily against gaza — very strongly militarily against gaza i— very strongly militarily against gaza ithink— very strongly militarily against gaza. i think what _ very strongly militarily against gaza. i think what was - very strongly militarily against gaza. i think what was less . gaza. i think what was less predictable _ gaza. i think what was less predictable was _ gaza. i think what was less predictable was the - gaza. i think what was less predictable was the prime i gaza. i think what was less - predictable was the prime minister netanyahu — predictable was the prime minister netanyahu would _ predictable was the prime minister netanyahu would establish - predictable was the prime ministerj netanyahu would establish military -oals netanyahu would establish military goals right — netanyahu would establish military goals right at — netanyahu would establish military goals right at the _ netanyahu would establish military goals right at the start _ netanyahu would establish military goals right at the start which - goals right at the start which he has not — goals right at the start which he has not been _ goals right at the start which he has not been able _ goals right at the start which he has not been able to— goals right at the start which he has not been able to achieve i goals right at the start which he i has not been able to achieve after 12 months— has not been able to achieve after 12 months and _ has not been able to achieve after 12 months and some _ has not been able to achieve after 12 months and some of— has not been able to achieve after 12 months and some of which - has not been able to achieve afterl 12 months and some of which were

unachievable — 12 months and some of which were unachievable and _ 12 months and some of which were unachievable and are _ 12 months and some of which were unachievable and are unachievablej unachievable and are unachievable without _ unachievable and are unachievable without allowing _ unachievable and are unachievable without allowing a _ unachievable and are unachievable without allowing a political - unachievable and are unachievable without allowing a political horizon for the _ without allowing a political horizon for the palestinian _ without allowing a political horizon for the palestinian people. - without allowing a political horizon for the palestinian people. so - without allowing a political horizon for the palestinian people. so i - for the palestinian people. sol think— for the palestinian people. sol think we — for the palestinian people. sol think we now— for the palestinian people. sol think we now have _ for the palestinian people. sol think we now have a _ for the palestinian people. sol think we now have a widening i for the palestinian people. so i - think we now have a widening crisis in the _ think we now have a widening crisis in the region— think we now have a widening crisis in the region with _ think we now have a widening crisis| in the region with hezbollah coming in the region with hezbollah coming in and _ in the region with hezbollah coming in and israel, predictably, _ in and israel, predictably, retaliating _ in and israel, predictably, retaliating very— in and israel, predictably, retaliating very strongly. in and israel, predictably, - retaliating very strongly against them _ retaliating very strongly against them and _ retaliating very strongly against them. and these _ retaliating very strongly against them. and these exchanges - retaliating very strongly againstl them. and these exchanges with retaliating very strongly against - them. and these exchanges with iran, them. and these exchanges with iran, the houthi _ them. and these exchanges with iran, the houthi is _ them. and these exchanges with iran, the houthi is in — them. and these exchanges with iran, the houthi is in the _ them. and these exchanges with iran, the houthi is in the south. _ them. and these exchanges with iran, the houthi is in the south. despite - the houthi is in the south. despite the houthi is in the south. despite the fact— the houthi is in the south. despite the fact that — the houthi is in the south. despite the fact that is _ the houthi is in the south. despite the fact that is relatively— the houthi is in the south. despite the fact that is relatively huge - the fact that is relatively huge amount— the fact that is relatively huge amount military— the fact that is relatively huge amount military success - the fact that is relatively huge l amount military success against the fact that is relatively huge - amount military success against its traditional— amount military success against its traditional enemies, _ amount military success against its traditional enemies, it— amount military success against its traditional enemies, it is _ amount military success against its traditional enemies, it is not - traditional enemies, it is not making — traditional enemies, it is not making israel— traditional enemies, it is not making israel more - traditional enemies, it is not making israel more secure. i traditional enemies, it is not. making israel more secure. and traditional enemies, it is not - making israel more secure. and it will not _ making israel more secure. and it will not make _ making israel more secure. and it will not make israel— making israel more secure. and it will not make israel more - making israel more secure. and it will not make israel more secure. will not make israel more secure until— will not make israel more secure until there — will not make israel more secure until there is _ will not make israel more secure until there is a _ will not make israel more secure until there is a sustainable - will not make israel more secure i until there is a sustainable process of negotiations _ until there is a sustainable process of negotiations which _ until there is a sustainable process of negotiations which leads - until there is a sustainable process of negotiations which leads to - until there is a sustainable process of negotiations which leads to at i of negotiations which leads to at least _ of negotiations which leads to at least gives— of negotiations which leads to at least gives a _ of negotiations which leads to at least gives a political— of negotiations which leads to at least gives a political horizon - of negotiations which leads to at least gives a political horizon for the palestinians. _ least gives a political horizon for the palestinians. so _ least gives a political horizon for the palestinians. so i _ least gives a political horizon for the palestinians. so i worried i least gives a political horizon for. the palestinians. so i worried this conflict _ the palestinians. so i worried this conflict is — the palestinians. so i worried this conflict isjust_ the palestinians. so i worried this conflict is just establishing - the palestinians. so i worried this conflict is just establishing a - conflict is just establishing a cycle — conflict is just establishing a cycle of— conflict is just establishing a cycle of violence _ conflict is just establishing a cycle of violence that - conflict is just establishing a cycle of violence that will. conflict is just establishing a cycle of violence that will goj conflict is just establishing a i cycle of violence that will go on indefinitely. _ cycle of violence that will go on indefinitely, even _ cycle of violence that will go on indefinitely, even if— cycle of violence that will go on indefinitely, even if there - cycle of violence that will go on indefinitely, even if there is- cycle of violence that will go on indefinitely, even if there is a l indefinitely, even if there is a short-term _ indefinitely, even if there is a short—term truce _ indefinitely, even if there is a short—term truce which - indefinitely, even if there is a short—term truce which may i indefinitely, even if there is a i short—term truce which may well happen, — short—term truce which may well happen, it — short—term truce which may well happen. it will— short—term truce which may well happen, it willjust _ short—term truce which may well happen, it willjust happen - short—term truce which may well happen, it willjust happen againj happen, it willjust happen again with the — happen, it willjust happen again with the next— happen, it willjust happen again with the next generation. - happen, it willjust happen again with the next generation. [5 - happen, it willjust happen again with the next generation.- with the next generation. is that how you see _ with the next generation. is that how you see it. _ with the next generation. is that how you see it, that _ with the next generation. is that how you see it, that there - with the next generation. is that how you see it, that there is - with the next generation. is that how you see it, that there is a l how you see it, that there is a cycle of violence that will continue? that already we are there. no one, of

course. _ already we are there. no one, of course, predicts what will happen, although— course, predicts what will happen, although many analysts say and including — although many analysts say and including the israeli left, that this longest occupation since the second world war will bring catastrophe for both sides, and this is what happened. for the israelis, they perceive it as they have never had experience since the holocaust as this _ had experience since the holocaust as this experience. for the palestinians, they have never had experience — palestinians, they have never had experience like that, even the nakba. — experience like that, even the nakba, the kata sthree of the palestinians, that compared to what happened _ palestinians, that compared to what happened in 1948, cannot compare to the genocide they are facing in gaza — the genocide they are facing in gaza. ., . the genocide they are facing in gaza. ., , ., , gaza. that is what is your assessment _ gaza. that is what is your assessment that - gaza. that is what is your assessment that is - gaza. that is what is your assessment that is going | gaza. that is what is your i assessment that is going on, genocide, as a human rights lawyerof course. israel rejects the accusation. you have 10% of the population of

gaza who — you have 10% of the population of gaza who were killed or injured or disappeared. take uk. uk, 70 million — disappeared. take uk. uk, 70 million. imagine 7 million were killed. — million. imagine 7 million were killed, injured or disappeared. beside — killed, injured or disappeared. beside that, 70% of any building, any street— beside that, 70% of any building, any street on the earth was destroyed. imagine 70% of this country— destroyed. imagine 70% of this country were destroyed. can we see that this _ country were destroyed. can we see that this is — country were destroyed. can we see that this is not genocide micro —— can we _ that this is not genocide micro —— can we say— that this is not genocide micro —— can we say that this is not genocide? so what amazed me on october— genocide? so what amazed me on october the 7th or the war of october. _ october the 7th or the war of october, the response of the international community. we thought that after— international community. we thought that after the holocaust, the "never again" _ that after the holocaust, the "never again" was— that after the holocaust, the "never again" was serious never again. but here we _ again" was serious never again. but here we see — again" was serious never again. but here we see for the first time in the history, televised genocide live. _ the history, televised genocide live. and — the history, televised genocide live, and we see people are killed daily _ live, and we see people are killed daily. today they are killed. it is

israel defending _ daily. today they are killed. it is israel defending itself. today _ israel defending itself. today they _ israel defending itself. today they are - israel defending itself. today they are killed, i israel defending itself. - today they are killed, tens and thousands, they are killed, and we don't _ thousands, they are killed, and we don't see _ thousands, they are killed, and we don't see them never again in the world _ don't see them never again in the world that — don't see them never again in the world that you have serious response for that _ for that. however... we will for that. — however... we will come back to you. i have to appreciate the response of the youth _ i have to appreciate the response of the youth in — i have to appreciate the response of the youth in the world, the universities, in the campuses. they are different than the state. they are different than the state. they are not— are different than the state. they are not accepting genocide. they are not accepting that their money going to our— not accepting that their money going to our genocide. let _ to our genocide. let me bring in louise ellman, ifi let me bring in louise ellman, if i may. what is happening is horrendous, and many— what is happening is horrendous, and many civilians — what is happening is horrendous, and many civilians are _ what is happening is horrendous, and many civilians are dying, _ what is happening is horrendous, and many civilians are dying, but - what is happening is horrendous, and many civilians are dying, but this - many civilians are dying, but this is not _ many civilians are dying, but this is not genocide. _ many civilians are dying, but this is not genocide. it _ many civilians are dying, but this is not genocide. it is _ many civilians are dying, but this is not genocide. it is israel- is not genocide. it is israel defending _ is not genocide. it is israel defending itself. _ is not genocide. it is israel defending itself. it - is not genocide. it is israel defending itself. it is - is not genocide. it is israel| defending itself. it is israel defending _ defending itself. it is israel defending itself— defending itself. it is israel defending itself after- defending itself. it is israel defending itself after a - defending itself. it is israel. defending itself after a horrific attack— defending itself after a horrific attack on _ defending itself after a horrific attack on its _ defending itself after a horrific attack on its citizens _ defending itself after a horrific attack on its citizens in - defending itself after a horrific attack on its citizens in their i defending itself after a horrific i attack on its citizens in their own homes. — attack on its citizens in their own homes. and _ attack on its citizens in their own homes. and young _ attack on its citizens in their own homes, and young people - attack on its citizens in their own homes, and young people at - attack on its citizens in their own homes, and young people at a i attack on its citizens in their own - homes, and young people at a music festival. _ homes, and young people at a music festival. and — homes, and young people at a music festival, and after— homes, and young people at a music festival, and after that _ homes, and young people at a music festival, and after that horrendous i festival, and after that horrendous attack _ festival, and after that horrendous attack from — festival, and after that horrendous attack from terrorist _ festival, and after that horrendous attack from terrorist organisation. attack from terrorist organisation hamas— attack from terrorist organisation hamas stated _ attack from terrorist organisation hamas stated through _ attack from terrorist organisation hamas stated through its - attack from terrorist organisation hamas stated through its leaderl attack from terrorist organisation - hamas stated through its leader that they would _

hamas stated through its leader that they would do— hamas stated through its leader that they would do this _ hamas stated through its leader that they would do this again _ hamas stated through its leader that they would do this again and - hamas stated through its leader that they would do this again and again i they would do this again and again and again— they would do this again and again and again until— they would do this again and again and again until israel— they would do this again and again and again until israel no _ they would do this again and again and again until israel no longer- and again until israel no longer exists — and again until israel no longer exists it's_ and again until israel no longer exists. it's also _ and again until israel no longer exists. it's also the _ and again until israel no longer exists. it's also the case - and again until israel no longer exists. it's also the case that i exists. it's also the case that hamas uses— exists. it's also the case that hamas uses its _ exists. it's also the case that hamas uses its citizens - exists. it's also the case that hamas uses its citizens as i exists. it's also the case that - hamas uses its citizens as human shields. _ hamas uses its citizens as human shields. so — hamas uses its citizens as human shields, so inevitably, _ hamas uses its citizens as human shields, so inevitably, many- shields, so inevitably, many civilians _ shields, so inevitably, many civilians are _ shields, so inevitably, many civilians are being _ shields, so inevitably, many civilians are being killed, . shields, so inevitably, manyl civilians are being killed, and shields, so inevitably, many- civilians are being killed, and that is deeply— civilians are being killed, and that is deeply distressing, _ civilians are being killed, and that is deeply distressing, and - civilians are being killed, and that is deeply distressing, and as - civilians are being killed, and that is deeply distressing, and as soon as the _ is deeply distressing, and as soon as the fighting _ is deeply distressing, and as soon as the fighting ends _ is deeply distressing, and as soon as the fighting ends with - is deeply distressing, and as soon as the fighting ends with a - as the fighting ends with a ceasefire _ as the fighting ends with a ceasefire agreement- as the fighting ends with a ceasefire agreement and i as the fighting ends with a i ceasefire agreement and the as the fighting ends with a - ceasefire agreement and the return of the _ ceasefire agreement and the return of the hostages. _ ceasefire agreement and the return of the hostages, the _ ceasefire agreement and the return of the hostages, the better. - ceasefire agreement and the return of the hostages, the better. but. ceasefire agreement and the return of the hostages, the better. but it. of the hostages, the better. but it is not _ of the hostages, the better. but it is not the — of the hostages, the better. but it is not the holocaust _ of the hostages, the better. but it is not the holocaust that - of the hostages, the better. but it is not the holocaust that you - of the hostages, the better. but it is not the holocaust that you are i is not the holocaust that you are implying — is not the holocaust that you are implying i— is not the holocaust that you are implying iobiect_ is not the holocaust that you are implying. i object to _ is not the holocaust that you are implying. i object to that - is not the holocaust that you are implying. i object to that very i implying. i object to that very strongly. _ implying. i object to that very strongly. andm _ implying. i object to that very strongly, and...— implying. i object to that very strongly, and... implying. i object to that very stronal , and... ., . , strongly, and... you can ob'ect, but the world sees, * strongly, and... you can object, but the world sees, international - the world sees, international human rights _ the world sees, international human rights organisations, around the world. _ rights organisations, around the world, they see it different than you _ world, they see it different than you the — world, they see it different than you. the world sees a different value — you. the world sees a different value the _ you. the world sees a different value. the campuses of universities, they see _ value. the campuses of universities, they see a _ value. the campuses of universities, they see a different venue, and i may add. — they see a different venue, and i may add, this is not the first war between — may add, this is not the first war between israel and hamas, it is a seven _ between israel and hamas, it is a seven. . between israel and hamas, it is a seven. , , , ., seven. let me pause, because i want to brine in seven. let me pause, because i want to bring in sir— seven. let me pause, because i want to bring in sir mark. _ to bring in sir mark. you have to be like... thank— you have to be like... thank you, doctor. | you have to be like... thank you, doctor. you have to be like... thank ou, doctor. ., �* ~' thank you, doctor. i don't think we

need to argue _ thank you, doctor. i don't think we need to argue about _ thank you, doctor. i don't think we need to argue about whether - thank you, doctor. i don't think we need to argue about whether it - thank you, doctor. i don't think we need to argue about whether it is l need to argue about whether it is genocide... percent of population to be deleted, and you _ percent of population to be deleted, and you accept that easily? we have to study— and you accept that easily? we have to study the lessons of the second world _ to study the lessons of the second world war. what are the lessons, if not to _ world war. what are the lessons, if not to be~~ — not to be... i— not to be... i strongly object... ladies— i strongly object... ladies and - i strongly object... - ladies and gentlemen, you i strongly object... _ ladies and gentlemen, you can't speak over each other, because no one can hear you if you do. bear with me- — with me. i- with me. | i strongly with me. - i strongly object to with me. — i strongly object to the statements you are _ i strongly object to the statements you are making. _ i strongly object to the statements you are making. is— i strongly object to the statements you are making, is the _ i strongly object to the statements you are making, is the horrendous| you are making, is the horrendous situation~~ — situation... i— situation... | i agree with situation... - i agree with you situation... _ i agree with you about... two _ i agree with you about... two states, israel and palestine, that is— two states, israel and palestine, that is the — two states, israel and palestine, that is the way forward. - that is the way forward. you _ that is the way forward. you know _ that is the way forward. you know the _ that is the way forward. | you know the difference that is the way forward. - you know the difference between that is the way forward. _ you know the difference between me and you? _ you know the difference between me and you? i_ you know the difference between me and you? i accept the tragedy... that— and you? i accept the tragedy... that it _ and you? i accept the tragedy... that it is — and you? i accept the tragedy... that it is a — and you? i accept the tragedy... that it is a tragic thing that happened to the israelis, and my students. — happened to the israelis, and my students, some of their families, jewish— students, some of their families, jewish students were victims, and i sympathise and i feel what they feel~ _ feel. 0k. feel. ok. i will ieei. — ok. i will now bring in sir mark. doctor hassan... forgive me...

we don't have experience since the holocaust _ we don't have experience since the holocaust that people, 10% of people were killed within less than a year. we don't _ were killed within less than a year. we don't have this experience. arguing — we don't have this experience. arguing about whether it is genocide or not is really slightly beside the point. i mean, a lot of human suffering is happening, obviously. the difficulty i have with the military response from israel is, it is making its enemies pay a price, as netanyahu said again yesterday. that is the language of retaliation, rather than deterrence, and i don't see all the suffering that israel is now imposing on its enemies is making israel any safer than it was. this is the problem. it's not actually a successful strategy. it's actually a successful strategy. it's a tactical approach by israel which has been very successful militarily, particularly in the last few weeks against hezbollah, but is not achieving any strategic aim of making israel safer. that is the problem with where israel is going at the moment. we are going to come back to this, i

promise, injust a we are going to come back to this, i promise, injusta moment. in gaza, israel said its aims were to destroy hamas and rescue its hostages. it has massively degraded hamas's military and governing capabilities, but at the cost of huge civilian casualties, and as we know, there are 97 hostages still being held captive. israel isn't allowing international journalists from media organisations, including the bbc, independent access to gaza. we've been speaking to a palestinian freelance journalist and mum of two, ghada al oudah, who is sheltering in the deir al balah refugee camp in the centre of the gaza strip. she's lost several members of her family.

ghada al oudah. a year on from october 7th, israel has degraded hamas in gaza and hezbollah in lebanon and there is an attack on iran to come, we are told. does israel have any idea how it's going to end these wars? nomi, what do you think? i'm not sure the israeli _ nomi, what do you think? i'm not sure the israeli government - nomi, what do you think? i'm not sure the israeli government has i nomi, what do you think? i'm not l

sure the israeli government has any plan to— sure the israeli government has any plan to end — sure the israeli government has any plan to end these wars, but i think the people — plan to end these wars, but i think the people who are in the... like — the people who are in the... like sharone lifshitz, like hassan jabareen — like sharone lifshitz, like hassan jabareen, like all of us on this panel— jabareen, like all of us on this panel would like to see the war and, you have _ panel would like to see the war and, you have a _ panel would like to see the war and, you have a fantastic plan by his roval— you have a fantastic plan by his royal highness the king of saudi arabia _ royal highness the king of saudi arabia and hisjordanian arabia and his jordanian counterpart. arabia and hisjordanian counterpart. 57 islamic and arab states— counterpart. 57 islamic and arab states have put forward a plan offering — states have put forward a plan offering normalisation and security guarantees for israel if israel were to allow— guarantees for israel if israel were to allow the palestinians to realise their right — to allow the palestinians to realise their right to self—determination and established an independent sovereign and contiguous state alongside israel, so the plan is there. — alongside israel, so the plan is there. and _ alongside israel, so the plan is there, and the question is, who is going _ there, and the question is, who is going to _ there, and the question is, who is going to make sure that it is implemented? right. can it happen under benjamin netanyahu? neta nyahu ? i netanyahu? i don't think so. if you think of the last 100 years, the closest we have come to some settlement of the israel— palestine issue was the oslo

agreements. the two people who opposed the oslo agreements were hamas side and netanyahu on the other side, who was leader of the opposition. he has been very consistent in his approach of opposing any prospect of a palestinian state, but i don't think israel will ever be fully secure without an agreement, at least a political horizon, for a palestinian state, so that is probably going to need a change of government in israel to bring that about. how do these wars end, do you think? i agree with what was said here, and i agree with what was said here, and ithink— i agree with what was said here, and i think that _ i agree with what was said here, and i think that this war is different as a _ i think that this war is different as a political moment, as a critical moment— as a political moment, as a critical moment than in 1948 and 1967, in that there — moment than in 1948 and 1967, in that there is no victorious side in this war. — that there is no victorious side in this war, and there is no defeated side _ this war, and there is no defeated side both — this war, and there is no defeated side. both destroy each other, and because _ side. both destroy each other, and because both rely on that they can destroy— because both rely on that they can destroy each other, i think that

this war— destroy each other, i think that this war must raise a question of how to _ this war must raise a question of how to live — this war must raise a question of how to live together, not how to kill each — how to live together, not how to kill each other. and this militaristic approach is not the answer~ — militaristic approach is not the answer. the israeli government still believes. _ answer. the israeli government still believes, notjust netanyahu, before that, except the rubbing government, all of those _ that, except the rubbing government, all of those governments believe the militaristic— all of those governments believe the militaristic approach is the answer. -- the _ militaristic approach is the answer. -- the rabin — militaristic approach is the answer. —— the rabin government. this will show— —— the rabin government. this will show that— —— the rabin government. this will show that the militaristic approach is not _ show that the militaristic approach is not the — show that the militaristic approach is not the answer for reaching a solution — is not the answer for reaching a solution, and it seems that without an agreed — solution, and it seems that without an agreed solution by the parties, it wont— an agreed solution by the parties, it won't reach a peace. do _ it won't reach a peace. do you _ it won't reach a peace. do you agree with that, louise? we need a ceasefire now that includes _ we need a ceasefire now that includes the _ we need a ceasefire now that includes the release - we need a ceasefire now that includes the release of - we need a ceasefire now that includes the release of the i includes the release of the hostages _ includes the release of the hostages. that _ includes the release of the hostages. that is - includes the release of the hostages. that is urgent. i includes the release of the i hostages. that is urgent. and includes the release of the - hostages. that is urgent. and then a pathway— hostages. that is urgent. and then a pathway to— hostages. that is urgent. and then a pathway to peace _ hostages. that is urgent. and then a pathway to peace based _ hostages. that is urgent. and then a pathway to peace based on - hostages. that is urgent. and then a pathway to peace based on a - hostages. that is urgent. and then a pathway to peace based on a securel pathway to peace based on a secure israel— pathway to peace based on a secure israel and _ pathway to peace based on a secure israel and an — pathway to peace based on a secure israel and an independent— israel and an independent palestinian _ israel and an independent palestinian state, but - israel and an independent. palestinian state, but there israel and an independent- palestinian state, but there is a long _ palestinian state, but there is a long way— palestinian state, but there is a long way to _ palestinian state, but there is a long way to go _ palestinian state, but there is a long way to go to _ palestinian state, but there is a long way to go to achieve - palestinian state, but there is a long way to go to achieve that, l palestinian state, but there is a - long way to go to achieve that, and when _ long way to go to achieve that, and when the _ long way to go to achieve that, and when the previous _ long way to go to achieve that, and when the previous discussions - long way to go to achieve that, and when the previous discussions andi when the previous discussions and negotiations— when the previous discussions and negotiations were _ when the previous discussions and negotiations were held _ when the previous discussions and negotiations were held in - when the previous discussions and negotiations were held in the - when the previous discussions and| negotiations were held in the past,

it was— negotiations were held in the past, it was the — negotiations were held in the past, it was the palestinians _ negotiations were held in the past, it was the palestinians who - negotiations were held in the past, it was the palestinians who walked | it was the palestinians who walked away from — it was the palestinians who walked away from agreements _ it was the palestinians who walked away from agreements that - it was the palestinians who walked away from agreements that israel| it was the palestinians who walked i away from agreements that israel had made _ away from agreements that israel had made for— away from agreements that israel had made for there — away from agreements that israel had made for there to _ away from agreements that israel had made for there to be _ away from agreements that israel had made for there to be a _ away from agreements that israel had made for there to be a palestinian - made for there to be a palestinian state. _ made for there to be a palestinian state. so — made for there to be a palestinian state. so let's_ made for there to be a palestinian state, so let's hope _ made for there to be a palestinian state, so let's hope that _ state, so let's hope that doesn't happen— state, so let's hope that doesn't happen again _ state, so let's hope that doesn't happenagain i_ state, so let's hope that doesn't happen again. i think— state, so let's hope that doesn't happen again. i think it- state, so let's hope that doesn't happen again. i think it is- state, so let's hope that doesn't| happen again. i think it is urgent that progress— happen again. i think it is urgent that progress is— happen again. i think it is urgent that progress is made _ happen again. i think it is urgent. that progress is made so, ceasefire first, _ that progress is made so, ceasefire first. the _ that progress is made so, ceasefire first, the release _ that progress is made so, ceasefire first, the release of— that progress is made so, ceasefire first, the release of all— that progress is made so, ceasefire first, the release of all hostages. first, the release of all hostages and a _ first, the release of all hostages and a pathway— first, the release of all hostages and a pathway to— first, the release of all hostages and a pathway to peace - first, the release of all hostages and a pathway to peace based i first, the release of all hostagesi and a pathway to peace based on first, the release of all hostages. and a pathway to peace based on a secure _ and a pathway to peace based on a secure israel— and a pathway to peace based on a secure israel and _ and a pathway to peace based on a secure israel and palestine. - secure israel and palestine. how— secure israel and palestine. how much _ secure israel and palestine. how much are _ secure israel and palestine. how much are we _ secure israel and palestine. how much are we waiting i secure israel and palestine. | how much are we waiting for secure israel and palestine. - how much are we waiting for the us election in november the 5th? is that relevant to this now? itrefoil that relevant to this now? well it is very relevant _ that relevant to this now? well it is very relevant in _ that relevant to this now? well it is very relevant in terms - that relevant to this now? well it is very relevant in terms of- that relevant to this now? well it is very relevant in terms of the l is very relevant in terms of the western response. it is clear israel is going to respond militarily against iran before the end of this month, in the next days and weeks. the americans clearly want to effect cannot

heavily they respond and whether they hit chemical sites, nuclear sites, etc, and of course, joe biden is boxed in by the american elections. it is constraining his ability to put pressure on benjamin netanyahu to have a ceasefire, because every minute that this war goes on, it probably helps donald trump is constrained by the coming elections, undoubtedly, in terms of american policy. very briefly. about a your report, when there would _ about a your report, when there would how — about a your report, when there would how israel does not allow foreign — would how israel does not allow foreignjournalists into would how israel does not allow foreign journalists into gaza. would how israel does not allow foreignjournalists into gaza. there will be _ foreignjournalists into gaza. there will be a _ foreignjournalists into gaza. there will be a moment when journalists will be a moment when journalists will be _ will be a moment when journalists will be allowed into gaza, and that will be allowed into gaza, and that will expose the scene. it will be similar. — will expose the scene. it will be similar, and sorry for comparison, but the _ similar, and sorry for comparison, but the situation is similar, well

people — but the situation is similar, well people discovered what happened in the second world war, and people were shot — the second world war, and people were shot from that, then the world there _ were shot from that, then the world there were — were shot from that, then the world there were politics i'm caitriona perry in washington. this is bbc world news america. israel marks the anniversary of the october 7th hamas attacks that killed more than 1,200 people. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu vows to continue fighting — even as regional tensions flare, with israel coming under rocket fire. in gaza, nearly 42,000 people have been killed since israel began its operation. welcome to world news america.

i'm caitr ona perry. israelis have spent october 7th remembering the 1,200 who were killed one year ago to the day, as well as the many others who were abducted and later died in captivity. it was 6.30am on october 7th, when fighters from hamas and other