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tv   [untitled]    October 13, 2024 2:30am-3:01am BST

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those in his right—wing coalition who keep him in power, that's what they want too. ukraine might not like it but is land for peace the solution to russia's war of invasion? at the moment, the positions — the starting positions — are irreconcilable. ukraine wants all its territory back. and tunisia's president has been re—elected. but in the birthplace of the arab spring, is democracy really working? tunisians tried democracy but their standard of living didn't improve. as they say, you know, it doesn't put food on the table. man: oh, my god! our century so far has been marked by three major acts of violence with global repercussions and by the
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overwhelming response to them — the 9/11 attacks in 2001, the invasion of ukraine in 2022, and the hamas assault on israel a year ago. each was followed by a major war involving the deaths of large numbers of civilians. what happened in the israeli kibbutzes close to the gaza border on october 7th last year was appalling and ferocious and israel's response in gaza and lebanon has been devastating. the bbc�*s chief international correspondent lyse doucet has been to be�*eri kibbutz, which was badly hit a year ago. i talked to her there about the events of the past 12 months and what they mean for israel and the middle east. you can feel the grief still here. it's like an open wound. and so many people have said to me here — former residents of
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be�*eri, other kibbutzim, all holding vigils today — they say they feel like it happened yesterday, notjust because of them living and reliving the horror of what happened here and across southern israel when hamas went on the rampage, it's also because many of their loved ones are still hostages being held in gaza. there are people from this community who are among the 101 hostages still being held across the border. many of them are feared dead. so, until people come home, and, indeed, untilwhatare about 140,000 israelis either living in the north or in the south are able to return to their homes, they live — they feel this is such a deep, deep well of anguish. and, of course, one of the saddest, the worst aspects of it, in many ways, were that the people — many of the people in that particular area where you are and who were at the rock concert a year ago — were there because they were in favour of peace
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with the palestinians. they've been neighbours with palestinians in gaza for generations. many people that we've met speak arabic. so, there was this sense of community — and that is, as you say, john, one of the greatest of tragedies, that people who believed most of all in peace are now really questioning. i spoke to one man at another kibbutz, a smaller community, who said that he did believe in living in peace with his neighbours and now, he said, it's really hard to sit down and talk with people who their whole sense of being is that they want to take you away and kill you. but as you know, john, the hamas — the extremists in hamas don't represent the broad spectrum of palestinians, including palestinians in gaza. they, too, are reeling from these horrific events. it's a terrible, terrible domino effect and, unfortunately, it's not over yet. but hamas�*s attack there,
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where you are, and israel's response, killing tens of thousands of palestinians in revenge, as some israeli ministers have said, that surely put off any kind of conclusion, any kind of solution to the problem even further, hasn't it? i keep remembering, john, an interview i did here a year ago with the mayor of sderot, alon davidi. and as you know, sderot has always borne the brunt of rockets from gaza for many years because it lies so close to the gaza border. and when i said to him how will this war — that will be the fifth gaza war, and you and i have covered many of them — how will this one be any different in resolving these issues? and he said because this time, when americans and british leaders call us up and say, "stop the war. you're killing too many people." we're going to say, "no, no, we're not stopping." prime minister netanyahu keeps saying that his mandate he has as prime minister of israel,
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hisjob is to keep israelis safe, and the only way to do that is to destroy hamas and to destroy what's known as iran's so—called axis of resistance and, most of all, its most important proxy, hezbollah in lebanon. for all of the tactical military successes of israel in recent weeks — and they have been spectacular — the strategic victory it wants — to make the region safer for israel — there are those who say that can only be achieved by diplomacy, by trying to find a way forward, by working with the palestinians and their arab partners, who say, "we will find a way, we have to work together." but right now, its war that's on prime minister netanyahu's mind. those in his right—wing coalition who keep him in power, that's what they want, too. is it possible, as the israeli chief of staff has said, that hamas has been destroyed as a military organisation? you know, john, it's very hard to measure this. israel gives numbers in
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the tens of thousands of hamas fighters that it has killed. it has killed many of the senior commanders. the man it really wants, who it regards as the mastermind of the october 7th attacks — the very hardline hamas leader yahya sinwar — is believed to still be hiding somewhere in the bunkers, in the tunnels underneath gaza. you know, even senior american diplomats will say — many here will say that it's notjust a military organisation, it's an idea, it's a financial organisation, it's a political organisation. anger in one generation begets anger in the next generation. they've got to find a way to break this deadly chain which is not keeping israelis safe, not keeping palestinians or the rest of the region safe, is not really find a way that works for everyone in this region. russian troops are still grinding ahead in the areas of eastern ukraine
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which moscow claims. now, the mining town of toretsk, close to an area which russian—backed separatists captured in 2014, has been lost to the invaders. ukraine has had its successes — not least its incursion into russia's kursk province this summer. but things aren't so good for the ukrainians now. so, where is the war going? and what's the likelihood of some kind of peace deal whereby ukraine will have to accept the loss of a lot of its territory? i spoke to irena taranyuk from bbc ukraine. 2024 hasn't been the best of years for ukraine. the world's attention has been concentrated elsewhere. also, the grinding progress of russian forces — much superior in mass,
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if not necessarily in ability — is slowly undermining the morale of ukrainian military. 0n the other hand, it's almost two months since ukraine's unexpected incursion in kursk region of russia started, taking everybody by surprise, providing a bit of the good news that lifted the spirits. yes, ukraine lost vuhledar recently, thus exposing the southern flank. this is the war of attrition. so, ukraine may have lost the battle for vuhledar but the outcome of the war is not so certain and much would depend upon ongoing support of ukraine's western allies, of the ongoing supply of western ammunition, weaponry, and the permission for ukrainian forces to hit russians where it hurts, which means their strategic facilities, weapons
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depots, fuel depots. and of course, ukraine's position in kursk is still pretty strong, isn't it? the fighting has intensified even there but ukraine seems to be holding around 1,000 square kilometres of russian territory, according to some experts, as potential bargaining chips in future negotiations with russia. it really is a matter of the two sides trying to get into the sort of position where, when there are peace talks — assuming there are — one or other of them will be in a better position. it's difficult to see when both sides would be ready to sit at the negotiating table. despite some tentative signs, zelensky hinting that there is a peace plan — well, not hinting, just producing this peace plan — and going to a compromise. putin signalling that
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he is willing to talk. but ukrainians understand that putin's ability to talk peace is contingent on ukraine being in a stronger position than it is now. i wouldn't say that territorial concessions are on the table yet, but everybody understands that... but that will be the case, won't it? ..that some sort of — at the moment, the positions — the starting positions are irreconcilable. ukraine wants all its territory back and russia claims that, you know, it's not prepared to allow ukraine, to determine whether ukraine wants tojoin the eu or nato, which is also inconceivable because too much blood, ukrainian blood has been shed. isjoining nato and the eu worth losing four provinces in eastern ukraine to the ukrainians? ukraine thinks that it has
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the right, it has won the right to be the member of the western club of nations, a western club of democracies, because ukraine fights for values. and also, nato membership is the only guarantee that no future aggression from russia happens. in a way, nato membership has become irreversible in ukraine's collective psyche because of russian aggression, because of russian invasion. is it worth losing territory in the four regions? it's a tough question. and future will show. georgia is a republic of fewer than four million people in the caucasus, once part of the soviet union. some years ago, the former president mikheil saakashvili
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campaigned tojoin the european union and got a lot of attention in the west as a result. he's now in prison in georgia and his successor and political enemy, the pro—russian bidzina ivanishvili, has taken georgia in the opposite direction, much closer to russia. ivanishvili is a billionaire, georgia's richest man by a long way, and his party, georgian dream, infuriated pro—western opinion in the country when it introduced a law, similar to the one in russia, which forced groups and individuals with outside links to register as agents of foreign influence. big demonstrations followed in the capital, tbilisi. more recently, ivanishvili's georgian dream has introduced an anti—lgbtq law, also modelled on russian legislation. now, parliamentary elections
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are about to take place which should decide whether georgia will move closer to russia or to the west. from her balcony in tbilisi, the bbc�*s rayhan demytrie told me more. we are in the — we'rejust a few weeks away from what's being described as the most important elections in georgia since its independence from the soviet union in the early 1990s. there is this issue, isn't there, of the lgbt bill that's going through? i mean, how has that affected things? the government argues that they want to protect minors from this massive lgbt propaganda that is coming from the west and therefore, the law includes a number of amendments that would affect the broadcasting law — for example, or any expression of lgbtq rights in cultural sphere, in theatres, in cinema.
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so, all of this has now been outlawed. human rights organisations and those lgbtq rights activists, they're saying that this law will further marginalise the lgbt community, which already has way kind of restricted rights in this country, and it will bring it to kind of institutional level, that homophobia is now kind of an official, has an official status here in georgia. but all of this is the kind of covering on the cake, isn't it? and the cake is essentially russian influence versus western influence in georgia, or is that too crude a judgment? the governing party, they never say that they're pro—russian but their actions and their anti—western propaganda, that intensified immensely since russia's full invasion of ukraine, kind of demonstrates that.
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so, homophobia somehow became one of the central election kind of pillars that has been used by georgian dream, the governing party, in their election campaign. along with this threat, of course, the biggest threat that the georgian dream is telling its voters, which allegedly facing georgia, is the war. their campaign billboards show images from war—torn ukraine juxtaposed next to peaceful, similar images in georgia. so, if you're seeing church somewhere bombed in mariupol, then you have peaceful, colourful church in georgia. the message from the georgian government is if you vote for opposition, they will drag georgia into the ukraine war. but if you vote for us, we guarantee peace. do you think georgian dream is going to win? they claim that they have 60% of the electorate ready to vote for them.
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if you listen to the opposition, they're saying that georgian dream has never been as weak as it is now because by adopting these legislations — the foreign agents law, the anti—lgbt law — on the one hand, georgian dream is trying to appease and appeal to conservative voters, but on the other hand, it is alienating a big chunk of society. it is going to be kind of a very bitter battle for power and they are desperate to win this unprecedented fourth term. but what will it mean for the future of georgia? the opposition is saying, look, this is a referendum for our country's future — either as part of europe, if you choose the opposition, and we will derail from all of those russian—style laws and will bring the country back onto its european path, or if you vote for georgian dream, it is going to be
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georgia sinking further away from democracy and becoming more and more authoritarian. in december 2010, fierce demonstrations broke out in tunisia after a market trader burned himself to death in protest against government policies. over the next year or two, countries right across north africa and beyond saw massive unrest in what became known as the arab spring. syria and libya were consumed by civil war. egypt's leader was overthrown. tunisia, where it all started, seemed to recover fastest. but even there, the arab spring hasn't led to greater freedom. parliament has been suspended and the constitution rewritten to allow greater
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authoritarian control. last sunday, the president kais saied was re—elected in a poll marked by a remarkably low turnout. more than a dozen candidates were barred from contesting the election, and one prominent politician was jailed just days before the polls opened. marina dharas from bbc africa gave me more details. marina daras from bbc africa gave me more details. there was some sort of pre—selection that happened a few weeks and months before the elections. a lot of people were jailed. eventually, three people were allowed to run for presidency, including the president, so two people against him. one was a former ally and another person who ended up being arrested and jailed and didn't campaign at all because he was behind bars, and he has since been sentenced to 12 years of imprisonment. and this in a country which,
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after 2011, we assumed was instinctively kind of pro—democratic. yes, and people really, during the arab spring, were asking for quite a few simple things. they wanted jobs, they wanted food, reasonable prices of food products. freedom of expression was actually granted to them during that democratic decade, what we call the �*democratic decade�* after the arab spring up to now. people were really able to challenge whoever they wanted to challenge in the streets or during political debates. but under kais saied, that has really took a different turn. what didn't change, though, is jobs and the cost of living. that really hasn't got any better. and what sort of man is kais saied? he was elected democratically during a fair and free election in 2019. not a political figure
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as the tunisians knew, because they would think that political figures are often corrupt. he really worked on this image of a clean man who was going to fight corruption. so, what happened? according to him, he is very much doing that. his first mandate, as he said, was fighting corruption against the political elite. and he really tried to deconstruct the system, to clean it from the inside. and he said his second mandate was going to be about reconstruction. instead, well, as well as doing some of those things, he's barred his political opponents in a way that democrats don't do. yes, there's not much opposition at the moment. and the opposition that is there is really struggling to rally support, to organise protest because a lot of them are in prisons. he has passed a law that is quite controversial
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but also has instilled a lot of fear in people. it's called decree 54. if you are even perceived as perpetrating false news or rumours, you can be sentenced to five years of prison. looking back at 13 years ago, 2011, is there some single thing that went wrong? there's been many, many government in place, and nothing got better. i think tunisians tried democracy, but their standard of living didn't improve. as they say, you know, it doesn't put food on the table, democracy. human rights is great. freedom of expression, amazing. we would love to have those things but it doesn't actually feed the most needy population. will there be another arab spring at some stage, in tunisia or elsewhere, or are those days finished?
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at the minute, i think they're just very disillusioned. so, until they can see a very clear opponent to kais saied, a very clear successor, someone who is going to change radically the state of tunisia, i don't think they're going to bother to meddle in politics until it explodes again. marina daras of bbc africa. a lot of the world's most intractable—seeming problems have eased over the decades. the west's nuclear confrontation with the soviet union ended when the soviet empire collapsed and most of the countries it ruled over became democracies. south africa, which throughout the �*60s and �*70s, seemed certain to explode into racial war, has ended up largely peaceful, in spite of its many problems.
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northern ireland was violent for 30 years before a political solution was found. it can happen. but not so far in the middle east. 30 years ago after the oslo accords, the israeli prime minister yitzhak rabin shook hands with the palestinian leader yasser arafat. but two years later, rabin was assassinated by an israeli who believed the oslo deal would destroy israel. and in 2000, arafat himself rejected israel's proposals, which many felt didn't go nearly far enough to settle the basic requirements of the palestinian side. and now, the events of the last year seem to have made peace even farther away than before. what happened on october 7 last year, when israel's defenders let their guard down, gave militant palestinians the sense that israel
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could be beaten. and now, after a year of terrible destruction in gaza and lebanon, israel believes it's defeated both hamas and hezbollah and faced down iran. there can never be any serious possibility of peace when one side or the other thinks it's in with a good chance of winning. some believe israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu is determined to destroy any chance of a deal which might give the palestinians their own state. and yet, most of the world's politicians who are involved with the middle east feel that's the only possibility of getting lasting peace. if ever there is to be peace there, israel will have to have a leader who says, as yitzhak rabin said after shaking hands with arafat, "enough blood and tears — enough." it's impossible, as things stand, to think that
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benjamin netanyahu would ever say such a thing. but unless someone does, at some point, this is a crisis which can't be solved peacefully. well, that's it from this edition of unspun world. from me and from the team, until we meet again, goodbye. hello. it's been an unsettled start to the weekend, with low pressure pushing several bands of rain southwards across the uk on saturday, but we did manage some spells of sunshine between these successive areas of rain. it was a mild day, particularly across southern areas of england and wales. top temperatures reached 17 degrees, but in cardiff we've got a drop of four degrees celsius on the way
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as we head into sunday. low pressure then clears off out of the way. a ridge of high pressure follows, bringing a better day for many of us on sunday. however, it is going to be a chilly old start to the day underneath these clearing skies, temperatures are dropping like a stone at the moment. we've got a few showers coming and going across the far north coast of wales, parts of coastal cheshire and into northern areas of scotland, but otherwise it's dry. lowest temperatures heading into sunday morning, about minus threee degrees celsius. so, a cold start to the day then for sunday. but underneath this ridge of high pressure, a lot of fine weather and for some a fine sunrise, some of this high cloud in the west getting illuminated by the rising sun. through the day, well, there probably will be a few patches of rain getting into northern ireland and western scotland, but nothing particularly heavy in the afternoon. and for the most part, i think temperatures will probably reach around ten to 13 celsius. well, that takes us into sunday night and we're looking at a more substantial pulse of rain as a weak area of low pressure scoots its way eastwards across england and wales.
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scotland and northern ireland having largely dry weather with a few mist and fog patches and again a few patches of frost. into monday, the worst of the rain will clear away from central and eastern england, but it might well stay damp, even into the afternoon, for some. the best of the weather on monday for scotland and northern ireland, where it should stay dry with spells of sunshine. if anything, temperatures coming up by an odd degree or so, and generally getting close to or a little bit above average for the time of year. tuesday looks like being a drier day for all of us. however, there's likely to be quite a lot of low cloud first thing. some mist and fog patches around as well. probably see a few bright or sunny spells breaking through that, particularly to the north of high ground, so northern scotland might be one of the sunniest places. it's turning milder, though, 14 degrees for glasgow and edinburgh, a 17 for cardiff and for london. it gets even milder into the middle portion of the week, could hit 20 degrees in london, but the week's often going to be quite wet and at times really quite windy. bye for now.
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live from washington, this is bbc news. the un says a fifth peacekeeper has been wounded by gunfire in southern lebanon, as dozens of nations condemn recent attacks on un workers. one of the leading advocates for scotland's independence from the uk, alex salmond, has died at the age of 69. kamala harris releases her medical records, accusing her republican rival of a "lack of transparency"
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for not doing the same. and a colourful display in the sky, as hundreds of hot air balloons take flight over new mexico. hello, i'm carl nasman. us defense secretary lloyd austin has told his israeli counterpart that he's concerned over reports that israeli forces fired on un peacekeeping positions in lebanon. the messaging from secretary austin comes as a fifth soldierfrom unifil, the un peacekeeping mission in southern lebanon, has reportedly been wounded. it's not yet known who is responsible for the fire. the incident took place at the un base in naqoura, near the border between israel and lebanon. four un peacekeepers were wounded in previous incidents, which unifil blamed on israeli forces. meanwhile, lebanon's health ministry says at least 15 people have been killed in israeli strikes in different
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parts of the country.

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