at the rally. campaign speeches were ditched for a group listening session. mr trump's democratic rival, kamala harris, questioned her republican rival�*s mental state and fitness for office, after the televised town hall turned impromptu music session, which saw him swaying and dancing to a variety of tracks. posting on x she wrote "hope he's 0k". but, the former president defended the event, saying on his truth social network that "the q and a was almost finished when people began fainting from the excitement and heat". he says, "we started playing music while we waited and just kept it going. it ended up being a great evening". well, among the tracks played was rufus wainwright's version of the leonard cohen song hallelujah. should we keep going? all right, turn that

music up, turn it up. great song. # it goes like this, the fourth, the fifth. # the minor fall, the major lift. # the baffled king composing hallelujah. # hallelujah. but the singer—songwriter isn't pleased mr trump's been using his music. both rufus wainwright, and the estate of leonard cohen have callled on him to stop using the song. rufus wainwright joins us now from new york: good to have you on the context, and i was watching in the screen as we replayed that, and you are shaking your head quite vigorously. why don't you let the fact that he used your song? let the fact that he used your son: ? �* , . ~ , let the fact that he used your son:? �* , , ., let the fact that he used your son? i , .," , ., ., song? i'm shaking my head out of utter disbelief _ song? i'm shaking my head out of utter disbelief at _ song? i'm shaking my head out of utter disbelief at this - of utter disbelief at this whole _ of utter disbelief at this whole situation. - of utter disbelief at this whole situation. an- of utter disbelief at this whole situation. an a l of utter disbelief at this - whole situation. an a moral level. — whole situation. an a moral level. i_

whole situation. an a moral level. i am _ whole situation. an a moral level, i am not— whole situation. an a moral level, i am not happy- whole situation. an a moral level, i am not happy with i whole situation. an a moral| level, i am not happy with it because _ level, i am not happy with it because i_ level, i am not happy with it because ijust _ level, i am not happy with it because ijust do _ level, i am not happy with it because ijust do not - level, i am not happy with it because ijust do not think. level, i am not happy with it. because ijust do not think his philosophy— because ijust do not think his philosorlhy and _ because ijust do not think his philosophy and campaign, - because ijust do not think his| philosophy and campaign, and the republican— philosophy and campaign, and the republican party- philosophy and campaign, and the republican party in - philosophy and campaign, andl the republican party in general ell the republican party in general gel with— the republican party in general gel with what _ the republican party in general gel with what the _ the republican party in general gel with what the song - the republican party in general gel with what the song is - gel with what the song is trying _ gel with what the song is trying to— gel with what the song is trying to sex _ gel with what the song is trying to say. you - gel with what the song is trying to say. you know, | gel with what the song is . trying to say. you know, the song — trying to say. you know, the song is _ trying to say. you know, the song is about _ trying to say. you know, the song is about acceptance - trying to say. you know, thei song is about acceptance and peace — song is about acceptance and peace and _ song is about acceptance and peace and truth _ song is about acceptance and peace and truth and - song is about acceptance and peace and truth and of, - song is about acceptance andl peace and truth and of, about forgiveness _ peace and truth and of, about forgiveness and _ peace and truth and of, about forgiveness and so _ peace and truth and of, about forgiveness and so forth, - peace and truth and of, about forgiveness and so forth, so l peace and truth and of, about| forgiveness and so forth, so it isjust— forgiveness and so forth, so it isjust bizarre, _ forgiveness and so forth, so it isjust bizarre, but _ forgiveness and so forth, so it is just bizarre, but that - forgiveness and so forth, so it isjust bizarre, but that beingl isjust bizarre, but that being said. — isjust bizarre, but that being said. i— isjust bizarre, but that being said. itbink— isjust bizarre, but that being said, i think above _ isjust bizarre, but that being said, i think above that- isjust bizarre, but that being said, i think above that is- said, i think above that is just— said, i think above that is just a _ said, i think above that is just a surreal— said, i think above that is just a surreal matter- said, i think above that is just a surreal matter of. said, i think above that is. just a surreal matter of the whole _ just a surreal matter of the whole thing. _ just a surreal matter of the whole thing, of _ just a surreal matter of the whole thing, of seeing - just a surreal matter of the whole thing, of seeing himj just a surreal matter of the i whole thing, of seeing him do that in— whole thing, of seeing him do that in general. _ whole thing, of seeing him do that in general. not _ whole thing, of seeing him do that in general. not only- whole thing, of seeing him do that in general. not only with| that in general. not only with my songs, _ that in general. not only with my songs, or— that in general. not only with my songs, or the _ that in general. not only with my songs, or the other- that in general. not only with . my songs, or the other ones, is pretty— my songs, or the other ones, is pretty wiid~ _ my songs, or the other ones, is pretty wild-— pretty wild. was it somewhat heart-warming _ pretty wild. was it somewhat heart-warming where - pretty wild. was it somewhat heart-warming where you . pretty wild. was it somewhat. heart-warming where you watch heart—warming where you watch that clips and you had everyone swing to one of your songs, you are an artist or performer that what is what you thrive on but you mark i have? i what is what you thrive on but you mark i have?— you mark i have? i have said recently _ you mark i have? i have said recently in — you mark i have? i have said recently in other _ you mark i have? i have said recently in other interviews, | recently in other interviews, there — recently in other interviews, there is— recently in other interviews, there is something - recently in other interviews, there is something nice - recently in other interviews, there is something nice and| there is something nice and positive _ there is something nice and positive about _ there is something nice and positive about everyone - positive about everyone gathering _ positive about everyone gathering together- positive about everyone gathering together for. positive about everyone . gathering together for five seconds _ gathering together for five seconds and _ gathering together for five seconds and enjoy- gathering together for five seconds and enjoy music, | gathering together for five i seconds and enjoy music, it gathering together for five - seconds and enjoy music, it can be the — seconds and enjoy music, it can be the great _ seconds and enjoy music, it can be the great equaliser, - seconds and enjoy music, it can be the great equaliser, but - be the great equaliser, but above _ be the great equaliser, but above that, _ be the great equaliser, but above that, i— be the great equaliser, but above that, i would - be the great equaliser, but above that, i would like - be the great equaliser, but above that, i would like it. be the great equaliser, but.

above that, i would like it to prove — above that, i would like it to prove just— above that, i would like it to prove just how _ above that, i would like it to prove just how unfit - above that, i would like it to prove just how unfit he - above that, i would like it to prove just how unfit he is i above that, i would like it to prove just how unfit he is to| prove just how unfit he is to be president— prove just how unfit he is to be president and _ prove just how unfit he is to be president and how- prove just how unfit he is to - be president and how unserious he is _ be president and how unserious he is and — be president and how unserious he is and how— be president and how unserious he is and how he _ be president and how unserious he is and how he does- be president and how unserious he is and how he does not- he is and how he does not believe _ he is and how he does not believe in _ he is and how he does not believe in a _ he is and how he does not believe in a lots _ he is and how he does not believe in a lots of - he is and how he does not believe in a lots of these i believe in a lots of these expressions— believe in a lots of these expressions that - believe in a lots of these expressions that the - believe in a lots of these . expressions that the songs believe in a lots of these - expressions that the songs are trying — expressions that the songs are trying to— expressions that the songs are trying to get _ expressions that the songs are trying to get through, - expressions that the songs are trying to get through, so - expressions that the songs are trying to get through, so we i trying to get through, so we have — trying to get through, so we have to _ trying to get through, so we have to be _ trying to get through, so we have to be serious - trying to get through, so we have to be serious about. trying to get through, so we i have to be serious about this. and _ have to be serious about this. and what— have to be serious about this. and what are _ have to be serious about this. and what are you _ have to be serious about this. and what are you going - have to be serious about this. and what are you going to - have to be serious about this. i and what are you going to do? are you taking any action to stop them from using the song again? i stop them from using the song auain? ., �* ., , ., . again? i don't really have much control over _ again? i don't really have much control over the _ again? i don't really have much control over the situation, - control over the situation, unfortunately _ control over the situation, unfortunately i _ control over the situation, unfortunately i did - control over the situation, unfortunately i did not- control over the situation, i unfortunately i did not write control over the situation, - unfortunately i did not write a song. — unfortunately i did not write a song. i— unfortunately i did not write a song. i wish _ unfortunately i did not write a song. i wish i _ unfortunately i did not write a song, i wish i had _ unfortunately i did not write a song, i wish i had written - unfortunately i did not write a song, i wish i had written it, i song, i wish i had written it, but — song, iwish i had written it, but nty— song, i wish i had written it, but my version _ song, i wish i had written it, but my version is _ song, i wish i had written it, but my version is quite - song, i wish i had written it, but my version is quite welll but my version is quite well known _ but my version is quite well known because _ but my version is quite well known because it _ but my version is quite well known because it was - but my version is quite well known because it was on i but my version is quite well. known because it was on shrek but my version is quite well- known because it was on shrek a n1onth— known because it was on shrek a month so— known because it was on shrek a month so it _ known because it was on shrek a month so it is _ known because it was on shrek a month so it is a _ known because it was on shrek a month so it is a people - known because it was on shrek a month so it is a people know- month so it is a people know it, month so it is a people know it. so— month so it is a people know it. so it — month so it is a people know it. so it is _ month so it is a people know it. so it is a _ month so it is a people know it, so it is a part— month so it is a people know it, so it is a part of— month so it is a people know it, so it is a part of me - it, so it is a part of me is tickled. _ it, so it is a part of me is tickled. i— it, so it is a part of me is tickled, i would - it, so it is a part of me is tickled, i would admit, . it, so it is a part of me is - tickled, i would admit, because as my— tickled, i would admit, because as my dad — tickled, i would admit, because as my dad said _ tickled, i would admit, because as my dad said when— tickled, i would admit, because as my dad said when he - tickled, i would admit, because as my dad said when he heard i tickled, i would admit, because| as my dad said when he heard it and saw— as my dad said when he heard it and saw it. _ as my dad said when he heard it and saw it. he— as my dad said when he heard it and saw it, he said _ as my dad said when he heard it and saw it, he said now- as my dad said when he heard it and saw it, he said now you - as my dad said when he heard it and saw it, he said now you are| and saw it, he said now you are inthe— and saw it, he said now you are in the big — and saw it, he said now you are in the big time, _ and saw it, he said now you are in the big time, rufus, - and saw it, he said now you are in the big time, rufus, so - and saw it, he said now you are in the big time, rufus, so i - in the big time, rufus, so i understand there's - in the big time, rufus, so i understand there's a - in the big time, rufus, so i understand there's a slight| understand there's a slight emblematic— understand there's a slight emblematic thing - understand there's a slight emblematic thing which i understand there's a slight emblematic thing which is i understand there's a slight - emblematic thing which is good, but the — emblematic thing which is good, but the whole _ emblematic thing which is good, but the whole situation - emblematic thing which is good, but the whole situation here - emblematic thing which is good, but the whole situation here is. but the whole situation here is so dire, — but the whole situation here is so dire, just _ but the whole situation here is so dire, just with _ but the whole situation here is so dire, just with the - but the whole situation here is so dire, just with the sole - so dire, just with the sole election— so dire, just with the sole election that _ so dire, just with the sole election that we - so dire, just with the sole election that we just - so dire, just with the sole election that we just have so dire, just with the sole . election that we just have to realty— election that we just have to really focus _ election that we just have to really focus on _ election that we just have to really focus on getting - election that we just have to l really focus on getting kamala harris — really focus on getting kamala harris in — really focus on getting kamala harris in office. _ really focus on getting kamala harris in office.—

harris in office. you are quite out5poken — harris in office. you are quite outspoken and _ harris in office. you are quite outspoken and fervent - harris in office. you are quite. outspoken and fervent support of kamala harris, and we were speaking to a few voters earlier in the programme, one is republican and one is a democrat, and they were a great example of how divides can be bridged in america. i lived in the states for a long time and armour in 2016, people stopped being friends with people from the other side of the political aisle, it was highly charged, is it the same this time? much worst, is it the same this time? much worst. and _ is it the same this time? much worst. and yes. _ is it the same this time? much worst, and yes, i— is it the same this time? much worst, and yes, i wish - is it the same this time? much worst, and yes, iwish i - worst, and yes, i wish i could say— worst, and yes, i wish i could say it— worst, and yes, i wish i could say it was— worst, and yes, i wish i could say it was better, _ worst, and yes, i wish i could say it was better, but - worst, and yes, i wish i could say it was better, but it's- say it was better, but it's worse. _ say it was better, but it's worse. and _ say it was better, but it's worse, and yes, - say it was better, but it's worse, and yes, we - say it was better, but it's worse, and yes, we havej say it was better, but it's. worse, and yes, we have to say it was better, but it's- worse, and yes, we have to fix it. worse, and yes, we have to fix it i_ worse, and yes, we have to fix it ithink— worse, and yes, we have to fix it i think it _ worse, and yes, we have to fix it. ithink it is— worse, and yes, we have to fix it. ithink it is all— worse, and yes, we have to fix it. i think it is all of— worse, and yes, we have to fix it. i think it is all of the - it. i think it is all of the world _ it. i think it is all of the world is— it. i think it is all of the world is like _ it. i think it is all of the world is like this, - it. i think it is all of the world is like this, it- it. i think it is all of the i world is like this, it seems it. i think it is all of the - world is like this, it seems to be happening _ world is like this, it seems to be happening everywhere. i world is like this, it seems to i be happening everywhere. find be happening everywhere. and sometimes _ be happening everywhere. and sometimes they _ be happening everywhere. sometimes they say be happening everywhere. aim} sometimes they say music be happening everywhere. sometimes they say music is something that can bring people together, is there anyway you can use this moments, where song, your cover of hallelujah, coming to more prominence than it had can unite people in some way? this it had can unite people in some wa ? �* , it had can unite people in some wa ? r , . it had can unite people in some

wa ? ~ , ., , way? as i said, i agree, it is lovely to _ way? as i said, i agree, it is lovely to see _ way? as i said, i agree, it is lovely to see people - way? as i said, i agree, it is- lovely to see people communion and wanting _ lovely to see people communion and wanting a _ lovely to see people communion and wanting a better— lovely to see people communion and wanting a better world - lovely to see people communion and wanting a better world and i and wanting a better world and using _ and wanting a better world and using music— and wanting a better world and using music to— and wanting a better world and using music to spread - and wanting a better world and using music to spread that - using music to spread that message, _ using music to spread that message, and _ using music to spread that message, and yes, - using music to spread that message, and yes, if- using music to spread that message, and yes, if they| using music to spread that - message, and yes, if they have some _ message, and yes, if they have some revelation— message, and yes, if they have some revelation during - message, and yes, if they have some revelation during this - some revelation during this process— some revelation during this process that _ some revelation during this process that we _ some revelation during this process that we have - some revelation during this process that we have to - some revelation during this| process that we have to get together— process that we have to get together and _ process that we have to get together and love _ process that we have to get together and love each - process that we have to getl together and love each other and be — together and love each other and be kind _ together and love each other and be kind and _ together and love each other and be kind and so— together and love each other and be kind and so forth, - and be kind and so forth, and follow— and be kind and so forth, and follow a — and be kind and so forth, and follow a real— and be kind and so forth, and follow a real christian - and be kind and so forth, andj follow a real christian values, and if— follow a real christian values, and if i — follow a real christian values, and if i can— follow a real christian values, and if i can be— follow a real christian values, and if i can be a— follow a real christian values, and if i can be a part - follow a real christian values, and if i can be a part of- follow a real christian values, and if i can be a part of the i and if i can be a part of the process— and if i can be a part of the process then _ and if i can be a part of the process then grates, - and if i can be a part of the process then grates, i- and if i can be a part of the - process then grates, i wouldn't hold _ process then grates, iwouldn't hold my— process then grates, i wouldn't hold my breath. _ process then grates, i wouldn't hold my breath. find _ process then grates, i wouldn't hold my breath.— hold my breath. and very briefl , hold my breath. and very briefly. we _ hold my breath. and very briefly, we are _ hold my breath. and very briefly, we are less - hold my breath. and very briefly, we are less than l hold my breath. and very - briefly, we are less than three weeks out now, everybody looking out those polls, looking out those polls, looking incredibly close, where do you think see things of the moments? i do you think see things of the moments?— moments? i am hoping what ha--ens moments? i am hoping what happens in — moments? i am hoping what happens in america - moments? i am hoping what happens in america will - moments? i am hoping what happens in america will be i moments? i am hoping what l happens in america will be like what _ happens in america will be like what happened _ happens in america will be like what happened in— happens in america will be like what happened in france, - happens in america will be like| what happened in france, when there _ what happened in france, when there was— what happened in france, when there was just _ what happened in france, when there was just so _ what happened in france, when there wasjust so much - what happened in france, when there wasjust so much fear- there was just so much fear about— there was just so much fear about the _ there was just so much fear about the right _ there was just so much fear about the right wing - there was just so much fear about the right wing taken. there wasjust so much fear- about the right wing taken over and everybody _ about the right wing taken over and everybody just _ about the right wing taken over and everybodyjust went - about the right wing taken over and everybodyjust went out. and everybodyjust went out there — and everybodyjust went out there and _ and everybodyjust went out there and did _ and everybodyjust went out there and did their- and everybodyjust went out there and did their part, - and everybodyjust went out| there and did their part, that is what — there and did their part, that is what i _ there and did their part, that is what i am— there and did their part, that is what i am hoping - there and did their part, that is what i am hoping for, - there and did their part, that is what i am hoping for, butl is what i am hoping for, but yes— is what i am hoping for, but yes this _ is what i am hoping for, but yes this can— is what i am hoping for, but yes this can be _ is what i am hoping for, but yes this can be incredibly. yes this can be incredibly close. _ yes this can be incredibly close. and _ yes this can be incredibly close, and even- yes this can be incredibly close, and even if- yes this can be incrediblyl close, and even if kamala harris _ close, and even if kamala harris wins, _ close, and even if kamala harris wins, there'll- close, and even if kamala harris wins, there'll be i harris wins, there'll be situation, _ harris wins, there'll be situation, so _ harris wins, there'll be situation, so i'm - harris wins, there'll be i situation, so i'm gritting harris wins, there'll be - situation, so i'm gritting my ioins. — situation, so i'm gritting my ioins. as— situation, so i'm gritting my ioins. as they— situation, so i'm gritting my

loins, as they say. - situation, so i'm gritting my loins, as they say.— loins, as they say. rufus wainwright, _ loins, as they say. rufus wainwright, thank - loins, as they say. rufus wainwright, thank you . loins, as they say. rufus l wainwright, thank you for joining us on the contacts on bbc news, great to talk to you. it's bringing are pain l. jessica elgot, deputy political editor of the guardian and kendra barkoff lamy, former press secretary tojoe biden when he was vice—president. . i have to say kendra and jessica, not everyday that get a very famous singer on the context, and we kind of pause for a moment. what do you think of the fact that he and other artists, he's not the first, we had beyonce, the rolling stones, celine dion, all kinds of people were taken fact with donald trump using their music at his buddies. kendra? it’s at his buddies. kendra? it's interesting _ at his buddies. kendra? it�*s interesting that you talked about the wrote music for a particular reason, kindness is a huge aspect of what he wrote his song, being nice to others, and these are all ideas that donald trump does not follow. he is not kind, he's not

considerate, he is about what donald trump. i considerate, he is about what donald trump.— donald trump. i think his friends think— donald trump. i think his friends think he's - donald trump. i think his friends think he's kind, i friends think he's kind, kendra, but carry on. in friends think he's kind, kendra, but carry on. in his ublic kendra, but carry on. in his public appearances, - kendra, but carry on. in his public appearances, heat, l kendra, but carry on. in his i public appearances, heat, you know, because people names, he gives people terrible nicknames, he is not someone publicly that i would want my children to emulate, and i think you bullies, he does all of these things and musicians write songs for reasons, the right songs to communicate their thoughts and feelings, and if you use using their songs in ways that they do not agree with, they should speak out about it.— agree with, they should speak out about it. jessica, what you think about — out about it. jessica, what you think about what _ out about it. jessica, what you think about what kendra - out about it. jessica, what you think about what kendra was l think about what kendra was saying, it was quite an awesome moment when you watch that clip with everyone swing including donald trump, to an incredible cover by rufus? it

donald trump, to an incredible cover by rufus?— cover by rufus? it was broadly s-ueakin cover by rufus? it was broadly speaking in — cover by rufus? it was broadly speaking in bizarre _ cover by rufus? it was broadly speaking in bizarre events, - speaking in bizarre events, that's— speaking in bizarre events, that's how it looks, but it's been — that's how it looks, but it's been a _ that's how it looks, but it's been a long running thing, donald _ been a long running thing, donald trump was not been the only politician to have pop stars _ only politician to have pop stars criticise his music, the one — stars criticise his music, the one that _ stars criticise his music, the one that pops up all the time is bruce _ one that pops up all the time is bruce springsteen born in the usa. _ is bruce springsteen born in the usa, the rallies where songs— the usa, the rallies where songs themselves are not where you want— songs themselves are not where you want to have them on. and even _ you want to have them on. and even here, _ you want to have them on. and even here, it's definitely not just— even here, it's definitely not just right—wing politicians who have _ just right—wing politicians who have that as well. here, the song — have that as well. here, the song that— have that as well. here, the song that was always associated with tony — song that was always associated with tony blair and the labour party— with tony blair and the labour party was— with tony blair and the labour party was things can only get better, — party was things can only get better, a _ party was things can only get better, a big hit, and they came _ better, a big hit, and they came out— better, a big hit, and they came out and said they did not really— came out and said they did not really want this election for the labour party to use that song — the labour party to use that song again, they had never forgiven— song again, they had never forgiven tony blair for the irag — forgiven tony blair for the irag war— forgiven tony blair for the iraq war and forgiven tony blair for the iraq warand did forgiven tony blair for the iraq war and did not like the political— iraq war and did not like the political associations with their _ political associations with their song, so as a politician,

it is— their song, so as a politician, it is quite _ their song, so as a politician, it is quite difficult.— it is quite difficult. how do ou it is quite difficult. how do you pick — it is quite difficult. how do you pick your _ it is quite difficult. how do you pick your play? - you pick your play? chumbawamba,, they came on on bbc news and i interviewed them because they took into —— issue with a petition in new zealand using their songs. but kendra, looking at the broader issue, you looked at that event, jessica said it looked a bit bizarre, it was unusual, not what we see at rallies, the crowd listening to music, i have been to many rallies for many candidates, kamala harris, barack 0bama, donald trump, and others, but how much do they actually turn voters around these moments question mark i think there is a reason why kamala harris is in pennsylvania, holding multiple rallies, while you are seeing those —— her go to these key

states, ultimately, people who go to those rallies, they are supporters and people who would likely vote for her to begin with because of our parties —— policies which are important, but these are the people that will go home and talk to their friends. , ., friends. they were taught to their parents _ friends. they were taught to their parents in _ friends. they were taught to their parents in the - friends. they were taught to their parents in the school. friends. they were taught to their parents in the school it drop off line and say they were just at the harris rally and hear some of the really great issues she talked about, housing which i know is important to people, and it is important to people, and it is important for the people to attend a few special, they are getting to go to see her and listen to her in person and here what her policy stand for, then they go and sort of spread then they go and sort of spread the word and talk to others about what they are experiencing when they are at those rallies. i experiencing when they are at those rallies.— experiencing when they are at those rallies. i know you don't have too _ those rallies. i know you don't have too much _ those rallies. i know you don't have too much good _ those rallies. i know you don't have too much good to - those rallies. i know you don't have too much good to say - those rallies. i know you don't i have too much good to say about donald trump, but one thing he does well our rallies.— does well our rallies. yes, but ou are does well our rallies. yes, but you are also — does well our rallies. yes, but you are also seen _ does well our rallies. yes, but you are also seen people - does well our rallies. yes, but | you are also seen people leave those rallies pretty early and

pretty soon. he speaks for a very long time, they are often rambling, sentences, paragraphs that quite don't make a whole sense, so you do see extremes of people that walk off of the rallies because i think they go on for a really long time. {lilia on for a really long time. 0k, kendra, thank— on for a really long time. 0k, kendra, thank you _ on for a really long time. 0k, kendra, thank you for - on for a really long time. 0k, kendra, thank you for the moment, kendra and jessica, we will be back after a little break. around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news.

as the war in ukraine enters the winter months,