joe biden finally said what he and kamala harris think of our supporters. he kamala harris think of our sweden-— kamala harris think of our supporters. kamala harris think of our su orters. u, ., supporters. he called them garbage. there is literally _ supporters. he called them garbage. there is literally a _ supporters. he called them garbage. there is literally a floating _ supporters. he called them garbage. there is literally a floating island - there is literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean— of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. my of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. my supporters are far hiuher ocean right now. my supporters are far higher quality — ocean right now. my supporters are far higher quality than _ ocean right now. my supporters are far higher quality than crooked - ocean right now. my supporters are far higher quality than crooked joe l far higher quality than crooked joe or a lion kamala harris. i far higher quality than crooked joe or a lion kamala harris.— or a lion kamala harris. i think it's called _ or a lion kamala harris. i think it's called porto _ or a lion kamala harris. i think it's called porto rico. - or a lion kamala harris. i think it's called porto rico. 0k, - or a lion kamala harris. i think it's called porto rico. 0k, all. it's called porto rico. 0k, all riuht. it's called porto rico. 0k, all right- he _ it's called porto rico. 0k, all right- he is— it's called porto rico. 0k, all right. he is the _ it's called porto rico. 0k, all right. he is the president - it's called porto rico. 0k, all| right. he is the president who it's called porto rico. 0k, all- right. he is the president who stood at this very spot nearly four years ago and sent an armed mob to the united states capitol to overturn the will of the people in a free and fair election.—

fair election. more tax breaks for billionaires _ fair election. more tax breaks for billionaires and _ fair election. more tax breaks for billionaires and a _ fair election. more tax breaks for billionaires and a national - fair election. more tax breaks for i billionaires and a national abortion ban putting women's health at risk. everyday— ban putting women's health at risk. everyday prices are too high. food, rent, gas, back to school clothes, thatis rent, gas, back to school clothes, that is by genomics. we rent, gas, back to school clothes, that is by genomics.— rent, gas, back to school clothes, that is by genomics. we love you and we also love — that is by genomics. we love you and we also love our— that is by genomics. we love you and we also love our country. _ that is by genomics. we love you and we also love our country. and - that is by genomics. we love you and we also love our country. and we - we also love our country. and we want _ we also love our country. and we want donald] we also love our country. and we want donaldj tramped to be a warrior— want donaldj tramped to be a warrior for the word of god. want donald] tramped to be a warrior for the word of god. would ou have warrior for the word of god. would you have done _ warrior for the word of god. would you have done something - warrior for the word of god. hmlc you have done something differently than president biden in the past four years?— than president biden in the past four ears? , �* . ., four years? there isn't much that comes to mind. _ four years? there isn't much that comes to mind. a _ four years? there isn't much that comes to mind. a second - four years? there isn't much that comes to mind. a second tramp i four years? there isn't much that - comes to mind. a second tramp term. unhingee _ comes to mind. a second tramp term. unhinged. unstable and unchecked. and kamala harris wouldn't change a thing _ hello and welcome to newsnight, your home of us election insights and interviews. tonight, with just five days to go, we lift the lid on the trump and harris campaigns and ask how

each of them would win, with me tonight are ben ansell, blogger, podcaster and oxford politics professor. ]ack blanchard, uk editor of politico. and from washington, sophia cai of axios, who's got the inside track from both campaigns. first, to a man who's had more face—time with donald trump than most, author michael wolff. welcome to you, michael. give us a sense at this point of your feelings of how they are feeling within the donald trump campaign. the? of how they are feeling within the donald trump campaign. they are feelin: donald trump campaign. they are feeling pretty _ donald trump campaign. they are feeling pretty good _ donald trump campaign. they are feeling pretty good in _ donald trump campaign. they are feeling pretty good in the - donald trump campaign. they are feeling pretty good in the trump l feeling pretty good in the trump campaign. they think that they have come from a deficit against her and they have come, they believe, a bit ahead of her. now, nobody is buying

real estate in washington yet, so they are tempered but optimistic, i would say. they are tempered but optimistic, i would sa . �* ., ., ., would say. and how do you respond to that feelin: would say. and how do you respond to that feeling of— would say. and how do you respond to that feeling of confidence? _ would say. and how do you respond to that feeling of confidence? do - would say. and how do you respond to that feeling of confidence? do you - that feeling of confidence? do you share that in terms of the chances that trump will win? trio. share that in terms of the chances that trump will win?— share that in terms of the chances that trump will win? no. tramp may win and she — that trump will win? no. tramp may win and she may _ that trump will win? no. tramp may win and she may win, _ that trump will win? no. tramp may win and she may win, it _ that trump will win? no. tramp may win and she may win, it is _ win and she may win, it is absolutely 50—50, it is the closest election in modern history, perhaps everin election in modern history, perhaps ever in history in the united states. if anyone says they know what is going to happen, they don't, they are lying. and if anyone offers an opinion, it isjust because they are lying. and if anyone offers an opinion, it is just because they have a 50—50% chance of being right. at this moment in time nobody knows. michael, you were up close and personal when donald trump was in the white house. give us a sense of what that was like and what he was

like in meetings and with his aides and officials. it like in meetings and with his aides and officials-— and officials. it was chaos, it was disorganised. _ and officials. it was chaos, it was disorganised. it _ and officials. it was chaos, it was disorganised. it was _ and officials. it was chaos, it was disorganised. it was slapstick - and officials. it was chaos, it was| disorganised. it was slapstick and slapped together. there was a little rhyme and little reason and it was a lot of people who had no idea what they were doing, why they were doing it. and a collection of people who actually really didn't know donald trump very well and donald trump did not know washington and the political structure, the political establishment very well. [30 political structure, the political establishment very well. do you sense it will _ establishment very well. do you sense it will be _ establishment very well. do you sense it will be different - establishment very well. do you sense it will be different this - establishment very well. do you i sense it will be different this time and has been during the campaign or not? ., , ., ., not? one of the things about donald trum is

not? one of the things about donald trump is that _ not? one of the things about donald trump is that he _ not? one of the things about donald trump is that he always _ not? one of the things about donald trump is that he always does - not? one of the things about donald trump is that he always does the - trump is that he always does the same thing, he never changes. nothing is ever different. so i would imagine that a second tramp administration would be quite similar to the first trump administration. [30 similar to the first trump administration.— similar to the first trump administration. ,., , ., ~ ., administration. do you think that would be the _ administration. do you think that would be the case _ administration. do you think that would be the case in _ administration. do you think that would be the case in terms - administration. do you think that would be the case in terms of. administration. do you think that | would be the case in terms of the personnel, the people around him and the policies he pursues? yes. personnel, the people around him and the policies he pursues?— the policies he pursues? yes, i think he attracts _ the policies he pursues? yes, i think he attracts a _ the policies he pursues? yes, i think he attracts a kind - the policies he pursues? yes, i think he attracts a kind of- think he attracts a kind of collection of sycophants and flunkies and grifters and then a few people who think they can reform donald trump and they can't and they never have. but, yes, ithink donald trump and they can't and they never have. but, yes, i think the same order of people, if not the exact same people, and it will be some of the exact same people. but there was some change when donald trump was in the white house. was there anybody there at the beginning who would challenge him? or at

least...? ., , .,, who would challenge him? or at least...? , . ., least. . . ? nobody has ever challenged donald trump. _ least. . . ? nobody has ever challenged donald trump, even _ least. . . ? nobody has ever challenged donald trump, even if _ least. . . ? nobody has ever challenged donald trump, even if they _ least. . . ? nobody has ever challenged donald trump, even if they think - donald trump, even if they think they are challenging donald trump since he doesn't listen to anyone. it is 100% broadcast, hejust talks and talks and talks. i can't emphasise this enough. and talks, and he does it without breath. so there is no possibility, none whatsoever, of anyone getting a word in edgeways. whatsoever, of anyone getting a word in edgeways— in edgeways. then it is quite strikina in edgeways. then it is quite striking to — in edgeways. then it is quite striking to have _ in edgeways. then it is quite striking to have seen - in edgeways. then it is quite striking to have seen elon i in edgeways. then it is quite i striking to have seen elon musk share a platform and run the campaign for which he was actually called to court, he didn't turn up, but run a campaign supporting him with $1 million as prize money for registered voters to sign up to a pro—constitution campaign. but elon musk and donald trump together, if donald trump were to win the white house, how would that relationship work? ~ , .,.

house, how would that relationship work? ~ , , , , work? well, they each see themselves as kin: of work? well, they each see themselves as king of the — work? well, they each see themselves as king of the world _ work? well, they each see themselves as king of the world and _ work? well, they each see themselves as king of the world and the _ work? well, they each see themselves as king of the world and the thing - as king of the world and the thing about being king of the world is that there can only be one. so i would imagine that elon musk with his hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars will nevertheless find his dream of being king of the world will end in tears. can we talk a little bit about the potential aftermath if donald trump loses? what do you see happening then? how worried are you about what might happen, the risk of violence? he is unlikely to go quietly, donald trump. i he is unlikely to go quietly, donald trum -. ~ ., , he is unlikely to go quietly, donald trum. ~ he is unlikely to go quietly, donald trum. ,, ., , trump. ithink, as i say, he only has one playbook. _ trump. ithink, as i say, he only has one playbook. the - trump. ithink, as i say, he only has one playbook. the way - trump. ithink, as i say, he only has one playbook. the way he . trump. ithink, as i say, he only i has one playbook. the way he has done it before, he will do it again now. so the entire steel, they stole

it, they rigged it, whatever, all of that language will return, all of the lawsuits and threats of lawsuits will return. the difference, however, this time is he is not the president of the united states so he doesn't have that kind of leveraged, he doesn't have that kind of power, he doesn't have that kind of power, he doesn't have that kind of power, he doesn't have that kind of clout. the threat of him not leaving the white house is no longer a threat because he is not in the white house. i also think that in 2020 a lot of that depended on the other faithfulness and foolishness of rudy giuliani. i faithfulness and foolishness of rudy giuliani. lam not faithfulness and foolishness of rudy giuliani. i am not sure there will be that kind of person who emerges precisely because everyone has seen what happened to rudy giuliani. michael wolff, thank you very much. sophia cai, you have been listening

to our discussion with michael wolff. what do you make of it? yes. wolff. what do you make of it? yes, i think michael— wolff. what do you make of it? yes, i think michael is _ wolff. what do you make of it? yes, i think michael is right. _ wolff. what do you make of it? yes, i think michael is right. this election— i think michael is right. this election is different for a few reasons _ election is different for a few reasons. donald trump is running to return— reasons. donald trump is running to return to _ reasons. donald trump is running to return to the — reasons. donald trump is running to return to the white house and i think_ return to the white house and i think something that is key in this campaign — think something that is key in this campaign cycle that is unprecedented is that— campaign cycle that is unprecedented is that donald trump has instructed his campaign to build a very large network— his campaign to build a very large network of— his campaign to build a very large network of opinion poll workers and pole watchers. this is 200,000 people — pole watchers. this is 200,000 people across the country, primarily in the _ people across the country, primarily in the battleground states and these people _ in the battleground states and these people are pro—trump and some of them _ people are pro—trump and some of them are _ people are pro—trump and some of them are lawyers and they are standing — them are lawyers and they are standing by ready to challenge the election— standing by ready to challenge the election results in battleground states — election results in battleground states i— election results in battleground states. i think as a result donald trump _ states. i think as a result donald trump does not have some of the same ground _ trump does not have some of the same ground game _ trump does not have some of the same ground game that kamala harris does. that is— ground game that kamala harris does. that is a _ ground game that kamala harris does. that is a point where the harris campaign — that is a point where the harris campaign feels very optimistic. |

campaign feels very optimistic. i was campaign feels very optimistic. was going campaign feels very optimistic. i was going to say, because your website has had oversight of an internal memo from the donald trump campaign, ithink internal memo from the donald trump campaign, i think it is entitled president trump is on the verge. tell us a little bit more about it. yes, so this is a memo from his pollster— yes, so this is a memo from his pollster tony forbid seo —— who is speaking — pollster tony forbid seo —— who is speaking from a position of one, saying _ speaking from a position of one, saying he — speaking from a position of one, saying he is an good position to win, _ saying he is an good position to win, betterthan he saying he is an good position to win, better than he was in 2016 and 2020 _ win, better than he was in 2016 and 2020 his— win, better than he was in 2016 and 2020. his argument is that he is doing _ 2020. his argument is that he is doing better in the polls right now and he _ doing better in the polls right now and he was in his previous two elections — and he was in his previous two elections and primarily because republicans are under counted in the polling _ republicans are under counted in the polling. they are more likely to either— polling. they are more likely to either not — polling. they are more likely to either not pick up the phone or they are more _ either not pick up the phone or they are more likely to lie to pollsters.

his team — are more likely to lie to pollsters. his team is— are more likely to lie to pollsters. his team is stroking ego and telling him he _ his team is stroking ego and telling him he is _ his team is stroking ego and telling him he is going to win and that is what _ him he is going to win and that is what he — him he is going to win and that is what he wants.— him he is going to win and that is what he wants. ben, you have been followin: what he wants. ben, you have been following this _ what he wants. ben, you have been following this and _ what he wants. ben, you have been following this and the _ what he wants. ben, you have been following this and the focus - what he wants. ben, you have been following this and the focus is - what he wants. ben, you have been following this and the focus is in - following this and the focus is in the swing states. where are you in terms of who is edging ahead or not? everything, as michael said, is a 50-50. everything, as michael said, is a 50—50. anyone who tells you they know which way it is going to go is trying to sell you something. but what we can look at is the seven states that matter. there are the three northern states, the blue wall, wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania. in wisconsin and michigan harris is maybe a head and in pennsylvania it is incredibly tight. if she wins those 1403 00:12