�* cases have as well, but complex cases have as well, but the bulk of those left, a few hundred still outstanding, they are probably the more complex cases and they will prop you take a lot longer to resolve and there will be far more challenges along the way. thank ou for challenges along the way. thank you for being — challenges along the way. thank you for being here _ challenges along the way. thank you for being here today. - challenges along the way. thank you for being here today. just i you for being here today. just splitting the four schemes into two, and then there is glo and h55, focusing on them where hss, focusing on them where people were not convicted, if i am correct, in both of those we are looking at a 75,000 as the headline some. and that seems to be given the misery that people went through, frankly not much money for the years and years of pain and people

are thinking, and on this is worth arguing about the ge 75,000 doesn't cut it and i'm not sure whether the dbt are on the same page on that, so what is your view? i the same page on that, so what is your view?— is your view? i think the 75 k was brought _ is your view? i think the 75 k was brought in _ is your view? i think the 75 k was brought in as _ is your view? i think the 75 k was brought in as a - is your view? i think the 75 k was brought in as a band - was brought in as a band because there were a lot of smaller claims in the and i think that was a good option, something like 10,000 or 20,000, claims of those nature and the lawyers will probably able to answer questions better than me. but the banding worked well there and the banding should be looked at the banding above that as well. that could be an option that could be explored quickly by quite a few

individuals.— individuals. thank you for cominu individuals. thank you for coming in _ individuals. thank you for coming in today. - individuals. thank you for coming in today. i - individuals. thank you for - coming in today. i understand you are here on behalf of your mother, janet. i was wondering if you could sell us a bit more about her story. i if you could sell us a bit more about her story.— about her story. i have things written down, _ about her story. i have things written down, so _ about her story. i have things written down, so am - about her story. i have things written down, so am i - about her story. i have things written down, so am i 0k - written down, so am i 0k reading _ written down, so am i 0k reading them out? my mother was a postmistress for almost 16 years— a postmistress for almost 16 years unlike a lot of other postmasters she was hardly regarded in the community —— and _ regarded in the community —— and the — regarded in the community —— and the like. she won best post office _ and the like. she won best post office in— and the like. she won best post office in her first year and represented the northeast in the finals in london and the next — the finals in london and the next post office she bought at the horizon system fitted more or less — the horizon system fitted more or less after taking over. and the problems started immediately. the helpline were 'ust immediately. the helpline were just giving her the same answers all of the time, no one else _ answers all of the time, no one else was— answers all of the time, no one else was having this problem and finally after several requests we did get a gentleman to come —

requests we did get a gentleman to come out and have a look and do an— to come out and have a look and do an audit — to come out and have a look and do an audit and see where the problems— do an audit and see where the problems lay. and he couldn't solve — problems lay. and he couldn't solve the _ problems lay. and he couldn't solve the shortage problem and he told — solve the shortage problem and he told me he would make good the shortfall and more than 20 years— the shortfall and more than 20 years later and alan has opened this and — years later and alan has opened this and we received paperwork from _ this and we received paperwork from the — this and we received paperwork from the post office and in that — from the post office and in that paperwork the gentleman reports. — that paperwork the gentleman reports, he actually says, his words. — reports, he actually says, his words. i_ reports, he actually says, his words, i quote, reports, he actually says, his words, iquote, i reports, he actually says, his words, i quote, ithink reports, he actually says, his words, i quote, i think mrs muirhead _ words, i quote, i think mrs muirhead is hiding something. i have _ muirhead is hiding something. i have told — muirhead is hiding something. i have told her she must put the money— have told her she must put the money in — have told her she must put the money in stop he made this allegation without any proof whatsoever and this was the type — whatsoever and this was the type of— whatsoever and this was the type of people that were sent round — type of people that were sent round to _ type of people that were sent round to help postmasters. my mum _ round to help postmasters. my mum was— round to help postmasters. my mum was quite fortunate because she was_ mum was quite fortunate because she was able to put the shortages in and able tojust, put shortages in and able tojust, out the — shortages in and able tojust, put the shortages in and she didn't— put the shortages in and she didn't worry and live under the stress — didn't worry and live under the

stress and _ didn't worry and live under the stress and anxiety of the shortage occurring that she would — shortage occurring that she would not be able to afford. as well as — would not be able to afford. as well as a — would not be able to afford. as well as a postmistress, and as you can — well as a postmistress, and as you can imagine she was very conscious— you can imagine she was very conscious that if anything was going — conscious that if anything was going to — conscious that if anything was going to come out, she would have — going to come out, she would have a — going to come out, she would have a whale of a time with that— have a whale of a time with that and _ have a whale of a time with that and she wouldn't be looked upon _ that and she wouldn't be looked upon leniently in a court. she was _ upon leniently in a court. she was totally disillusioned at the ridiculous price. then we lost — the ridiculous price. then we lost two _ the ridiculous price. then we lost two years later and myself, _ lost two years later and myself, well, i'm here for my dad, _ myself, well, i'm here for my dad. my— myself, well, i'm here for my dad, my three brothers and my mum _ dad, my three brothers and my mum and — dad, my three brothers and my mum and it definitely affected her health, the stress, the anxiety, _ her health, the stress, the anxiety, how she lived, it definitely did. as far as our offer— definitely did. as far as our offer goes, like alan has said, we've — offer goes, like alan has said, we've had _ offer goes, like alan has said, we've had 80% and he would be the next —

we've had 80% and he would be the next carrier. when i initially— the next carrier. when i initially made the inquiries i was — initially made the inquiries i was told _ initially made the inquiries i was told the scheme was closed and they— was told the scheme was closed and they then contacted our solicitor— and they then contacted our solicitor who said we need to -et solicitor who said we need to get it— solicitor who said we need to get it reopened and we need to push _ get it reopened and we need to push and — get it reopened and we need to push and we are trying to get as many— push and we are trying to get as many people to get back onto the scheme and eventually i got a pact— the scheme and eventually i got a pact to — the scheme and eventually i got a pact to fill in and it wasn't easy— a pact to fill in and it wasn't easy to _ a pact to fill in and it wasn't easy to fill in and the scheme was _ easy to fill in and the scheme was an— easy to fill in and the scheme was an open, i was given an offer~ — was an open, i was given an offer~ i'm— was an open, i was given an offer. i'mjumping ahead, it offer. i'm jumping ahead, it was— offer. i'mjumping ahead, it was october 2022 when i got the form _ was october 2022 when i got the form returned back and it was august— form returned back and it was august 23 when we got the offer. _ august 23 when we got the offer. so _ august 23 when we got the offer, so ten months later they gave _ offer, so ten months later they gave us— offer, so ten months later they gave us an _ offer, so ten months later they gave us an offer and i then contacted the solicitors and

was — contacted the solicitors and was advised not to accept the offer— was advised not to accept the offer that will get an interim payment for us, and since having _ payment for us, and since having the solicitors deal with us, our— having the solicitors deal with us, our offer has turned out to be over— us, our offer has turned out to be over a _ us, our offer has turned out to be over a quarter of what has been — be over a quarter of what has been found in the forensic evidence of what we lost. he soke evidence of what we lost. he: spoke about the worry and stress. :, .., spoke about the worry and stress. :, .. , :, stress. how can you tell me about the — stress. how can you tell me about the impact _ stress. how can you tell me about the impact on - stress. how can you tell me about the impact on the - stress. how can you tell me l about the impact on the wider family —— what can you tell me? obviously we are reliving it because _ obviously we are reliving it because we are going through all of— because we are going through all of this sound we really don't _ all of this sound we really don't need it. they are asking for probate. and it'sjust a stumbling block all of the time, _ stumbling block all of the time, so that's affecting us now, — time, so that's affecting us now. but— time, so that's affecting us now, but as a family when we were — now, but as a family when we were younger mum was always preoccupied and anxious and agitated _ preoccupied and anxious and agitated and stressed and she didn't— agitated and stressed and she didn't want to go to work and she went _

didn't want to go to work and she went from winning the best office _ she went from winning the best office in— she went from winning the best office in the north—east —— post office in the north—east, from — post office in the north—east, from loving herjob to being totally — from loving herjob to being totally disillusioned.- totally disillusioned. thank ou all totally disillusioned. thank you all for _ totally disillusioned. thank you all for being _ totally disillusioned. thank you all for being here. - totally disillusioned. thank you all for being here. can| totally disillusioned. thank - you all for being here. can you talk to us more about the experience you have felt going through the hss scheme? it’s through the hss scheme? it's not very user _ through the hss scheme? it's not very user friendly. it's very— not very user friendly. it's very legal. the letters we have received. — very legal. the letters we have received, they are not nice letters _ received, they are not nice letters. they are not letters where — letters. they are not letters where you think they are trying to help — where you think they are trying to help you or you are going to -et to help you or you are going to get through this. and i think it's more _ get through this. and i think it's more about the time and sort — it's more about the time and sort of— it's more about the time and sort of doing this now for my dad. _ sort of doing this now for my dad, because he is 74. he's had ten years. — dad, because he is 74. he's had ten years, ten years yesterday since _ ten years, ten years yesterday since we — ten years, ten years yesterday since we lost our mum and he said _ since we lost our mum and he said ten— since we lost our mum and he said ten years of not having mama — said ten years of not having mama and then before that, the

11 mama and then before that, the it years— mama and then before that, the it years in— mama and then before that, the 11 years in the post office, of just— 11 years in the post office, of just constant battling with shortages and... just constant battling with shortages and. . ._ just constant battling with shortages and... just constant battling with shortaues and... ~ shortages and... when the post office first _ shortages and... when the post office first made _ shortages and... when the post office first made you _ shortages and... when the post office first made you an - shortages and... when the post office first made you an offer, l office first made you an offer, did you consider it to be fair? we did, we did consider it fair because — we did, we did consider it fair because we were not aware of what — because we were not aware of what we — because we were not aware of what we had actually lost and we contacted the post office and they sent us all of the documents they had, redacted letters. — documents they had, redacted letters, but there was five years _ letters, but there was five years missing and five years of data _ years missing and five years of data missing and then there were — data missing and then there were points where the solicitors have pointed out that — solicitors have pointed out that were not made aware to us, so like _ that were not made aware to us, so like for— that were not made aware to us, so like for instance, the cost of the — so like for instance, the cost of the property, my mum sold it and she — of the property, my mum sold it and she sold it at a loss to get —

and she sold it at a loss to get out _ and she sold it at a loss to get out and that would have increased, she would have sold if that— increased, she would have sold if that had _ increased, she would have sold if that had not happened with the post— if that had not happened with the post office, so the stuff the post office, so the stuff the solicitor helped us with, that— the solicitor helped us with, that increased our case and our offer— that increased our case and our offer we — that increased our case and our offer we have received. like i say. — offer we have received. like i say. it's— offer we have received. like i say. it's a _ offer we have received. like i say, it's a quarter, just over a quarter— say, it's a quarter, just over a quarter of what we have lost. you _ a quarter of what we have lost. you mentioned in your earlier remarks about the factory submitted back in, what was it, october 2022 and didn't get a response until august 2023. why do you think it took so long? i really don't know. i put it down _ really don't know. i put it down to _ really don't know. i put it down to maybe the scheme being closed _ down to maybe the scheme being closed and then putting them to one side — closed and then putting them to one side to see whether they would — one side to see whether they would reopen it or not. i don't know. — would reopen it or not. i don't know. i— would reopen it or not. i don't know, i can't answer that. i�*m know, i can't answer that. i'm sorry about — know, i can't answer that. i'm sorry about the _ know, i can't answer that. i'm sorry about the loss _ know, i can't answer that. in sorry about the loss of your mother ten years ago yesterday. and clearly the anxiety played

a part, big part, iam sure, i can imagine on her illness. he said the lawyer told her, or your lawyer told us that the post office said that stress didn't play a part in some of the —— it was something you couldn't demonstrate or prove had had an effect, but what was your reaction to that? i had had an effect, but what was your reaction to that?— your reaction to that? i think it's absolutely _ your reaction to that? i think it's absolutely disgraceful. it's absolutely disgraceful because i genuinely believe that the stress shortened my mums life. that the stress shortened my mums life-— mums life. it's been proven that stress _ mums life. it's been proven that stress brings _ mums life. it's been proven that stress brings on - mums life. it's been proven that stress brings on all - mums life. it's been proven i that stress brings on all sorts and yeah. _ that stress brings on all sorts and yeah, i think it's disgraceful and you cannot put a price — disgraceful and you cannot put a price on— disgraceful and you cannot put a price on that. how do they know — a price on that. how do they know. they didn't live in those shoes? — know. they didn't live in those shoes? they didn't know. something your lawyers have said in disclosure provided by the post office are those that they lame —— lay the blame on

your motherfor the they lame —— lay the blame on your mother for the shortfall losses. can you tell us a bit more about that. late losses. can you tell us a bit more about that.— losses. can you tell us a bit more about that. we only found that out when _ more about that. we only found that out when we _ more about that. we only found that out when we received - more about that. we only found that out when we received the l that out when we received the paperwork from the post office after _ paperwork from the post office after a — paperwork from the post office after a field in the form, so like — after a field in the form, so like i— after a field in the form, so like i say. _ after a field in the form, so like i say, more than 20 years later. — like i say, more than 20 years later, there was a redacted letter— later, there was a redacted letter which literally said that _ letter which literally said that i_ letter which literally said that i think mrs muirhead is hiding — that i think mrs muirhead is hiding something and i've told her to— hiding something and i've told her to put the money in and so everybody _ her to put the money in and so everybody read that report when he went — everybody read that report when he went back to the office, because _ he went back to the office, because he couldn't find any problems. and he came up with this allegation to cover his own— this allegation to cover his own inadequacies. because he could — own inadequacies. because he could not— own inadequacies. because he could not find the shortage or solve — could not find the shortage or solve the _ could not find the shortage or solve the problem. so 20 years of people — solve the problem. so 20 years of people reading those reports thinking — of people reading those reports thinking my mum is a thief. can i 'ust thinking my mum is a thief. can ljust ask. _ thinking my mum is a thief. can ijust ask, when _ thinking my mum is a thief. (sen ijust ask, when your mother was originally asked to repay

the money, how long she to repay? so straightaway? straightaway. so the largest shortage was £5,000 and that came — shortage was £5,000 and that came to — shortage was £5,000 and that came to light, and it was something the horizon system was doing when it was doubling the first— was doing when it was doubling the first class stamps. so you are looking like you had twice as many. _ are looking like you had twice as many, so obviously stamps were — as many, so obviously stamps were for— as many, so obviously stamps were for cash in the post office. _ were for cash in the post office, so you had done your balance _ office, so you had done your balance on wednesday and if there — balance on wednesday and if there was a shortage, you had to start — there was a shortage, you had to start the following week on the thursday morning on an even keel. _ the thursday morning on an even keel. so — the thursday morning on an even keel, so that money had to be put keel, so that money had to be out in — keel, so that money had to be ut in. :, :, keel, so that money had to be ut in, :, :, ., keel, so that money had to be ut in. :, :, ., i. put in. how on earth did you aet put in. how on earth did you get £5.000 — put in. how on earth did you get 5.000 by _ put in. how on earth did you get £5,000 by close - put in. how on earth did you get £5,000 by close of - get £5,000 by close of business? i get £5,000 by close of business?— get £5,000 by close of business? ~ . . get £5,000 by close of business? ~ , , ., business? i think she must have had it hidden — business? i think she must have had it hidden somewhere. - business? i think she must have had it hidden somewhere. i - had it hidden somewhere. i don't — had it hidden somewhere. i don't know. i really don't know _ don't know. i really don't know. that was left to mama to deal _ know. that was left to mama to deal with — know. that was left to mama to deal with. we had other businesses we run as a family, so i _

businesses we run as a family, so i think— businesses we run as a family, so i think we did sort of pull from — so i think we did sort of pull from one _ so i think we did sort of pull from one to the other to compensate.— from one to the other to comensate, , _, . ,, compensate. just come back, and, it compensate. just come back, and. it was — compensate. just come back, and, it was really _ compensate. just come back, and, it was really only - compensate. just come back, | and, it was really only because you had other businesses in the family that she was able to offset some of the money. do you think in retrospect, how long were —— was she able to sustain the business because of that, and if she hadn't had the other businesses, she would have lost it a lot sooner across she definitely would have. ,, . , have. she was living with the anxiety all — have. she was living with the anxiety all of _ have. she was living with the anxiety all of the _ have. she was living with the anxiety all of the time - have. she was living with the i anxiety all of the time because it was— anxiety all of the time because it wasjust, what is anxiety all of the time because it was just, what is wednesday going — it was just, what is wednesday going to — it was just, what is wednesday going to bring? what shortage will be — going to bring? what shortage will be have? will i have the money — will be have? will i have the money to _ will be have? will i have the money to put it in. we will be have? willl have the money to put it in.— money to put it in. we are watching _ money to put it in. we are watching the _ money to put it in. we are watching the proceedings | money to put it in. we are i watching the proceedings of money to put it in. we are - watching the proceedings of the business and trade select committee, hearing evidence of sub—postmaster is caught up in the horizon computer system scandal that computer system of

course which was and made it look as if sub—postmaster is mistresses for many years work short—changing the post office in the money they were returning at the end of a working day and we've been hearing there from jill donna summer, the daughter of a woman who was accused of creating shortfalls and having to pay them back out thousands of pounds, and she was talking about her mother being made to feel extremely anxious and preoccupied. she said you cannot put a price on the amount of stress that has caused. there is more on the live page of the bbc news website where you can read more about the evidence that we were just hearing from sir alan bates, who was one of the leading campaigners in the justice for sub—postmasters campaigning on behalf on behalf of sub—postmasters wrongly convicted because of faulty software. there is more

coverage and you can continue watching these procedures of the select committee on the live page and bbc iplayer. this is bbc news. representatives of the four different compensation schemes. it is election day here in america. the country decides whether it be kamala harris or donald trump in the most consequential election in generations. across 50 states there are long lines as americans cast their vote in a tight race. we have a team of reporters across the united states to bring you every twist and turn.