the mayor of moscow says 32 ukrainian drones were destroyed as they approached the russian capital. donald trump has completed his decisive victory in the us presidential election — with a projected win in arizona. it means he's defeated vice president kamala harris in all seven swing states. mr trump's final electoral college total is nearly a hundred votes higher than his democratic rival. king charles has led the nation in two minutes of silence in remembrance of men and women who lost their lives serving in the two world wars or other conflicts. tens of thousands of veterans and civiliansjoined the king in paying their respects to the fallen at the cenotaph. now on bbc news... the interview: vladimir and evgenia kara—murza. politician, historian, survivor — vladimir kara—murza

dared to imagine a free russia, but at the cost of his own liberty. victim of two attempts on his life, his criticism of putin's war on ukraine led to his arrest and trial. branded a traitor, he was sentenced to 25 years injail and sent to endure harsh prison conditions in siberia. well, at least now... his wife, evgenia, fought tirelessly in her campaign to secure his release. freedom came in a surprise exchange of prisoners that saw kara—murza go from solitary confinement to a reunion with his wife and children in a matter of days. now, vladimir and evgenia are trying to process what's happened but, above all, continue to dare to imagine that russia will one day be free. vladimir and evgenia, it's such a pleasure to meet you in real life. our viewers will remember

hearing from you so powerfully when you were fighting for your husband's release. now you're free, does it feel real, vladimir? firstly, to you. it's very good to be on your programme and the answer to your question is very simple — no, it doesn't feel real at all. in fact, since the prisoner exchange, it has felt as if i've been watching some kind of a film. it's a very good one but it still does not feel real because, you know, just a few weeks ago, i was sitting in my two by three metre cell in solitary confinement in a maximum security prison in siberia, thinking that i was never getting out of there and here i am, sitting with you and, you know, yet again, this exchange is testimony to the fact that at the end of it all, public opinion in democratic countries is more powerful than any dictatorship can ever hope to be. does it feel real foryou, evgenia? hmm. i think that i'm in a whirlwind of emotions, honestly, because we haven't had time to process anything.

and yes, i do feel an immense joy at having vladimir back with us and seeing him with our kids and knowing that he's alive but at the same time, ifeel something similar to guilt, thinking about all the others who are left behind, all the others who are just like us, like we were for the last 2.5 years — they're still separated. there's still millions of families torn apart by the war in ukraine and by repression in russia, and my heart goes out to all of these families. so, i feel that there is an enormous amount of work ahead of us because we need to fight for others because i want to see these families reunited like our family was. we'll come to what your moment of reunion was like in a few minutes but let's go back, then, to that morning in the early hours of the 28th ofjuly.

you were in your cell. suddenly, a group of officers burst in. what went through your mind? there was a bizarre episode just a couple of days before what you're describing when a couple of prison officials came into my cell and escorted me out to a prison office where there was a desk, a couple of chairs, a big portrait of vladimir putin on the wall. and on the desk, there was a sheet of paper with a pen and some sort of a pre—printed template. and the officer told me to sit down and write in my own hand what was written in the template and sign it. and it is a request for pardon, addressed to vladimir putin, in which i was supposed to admit my guilt for all the "crimes" that i've been convicted of, express my remorse for what i've done and so on and so forth, and ask mr putin to pardon me. first, i thought this was a joke. ijust looked at it and i laughed but then, i saw the prison officer's face. he wasn't in the mood forjoking, so i said, "so, what is this?" he said, "no, please, write and sign this."

i said, "i'm never signing anything like this." he said, "why not?" i said, "well, first, because i do not consider putin to be a lawful president, a legitimate president. i think that he is a dictator, a usurper, and a murderer who is personally responsible for the deaths of his political opponents like boris nemtsov, like alexei navalny, who is personally responsible for the deaths of thousands and thousands of civilians, including children in ukraine. i'm not going to ask him for anything and i'm certainly not going to admit any guilt because i'm not the one guilty of anything and the real criminals are those who are waging this war, not those of us who are speaking out against it." the prison officer wasn't very pleased with my answer, so he asked if i would put it in writing. that i was very happy to do, so i did. signed it, dated it, and gave it back to him, adding that i hope to see the day when putin is put on trial for all his crimes. and then came the day you're asking about. sunday, the 28th ofjuly. i was asleep when suddenly, the doors to my prison cell burst open and a group of prison officers barged in. and they told me to get up

and get ready in ten minutes. and at that moment, i was absolutely certain that i was being led out to be executed. but instead of the nearby wood, they took me to the airport, handcuffed, with a prison convoy, boarded me on a plane and flew me to moscow. in moscow, i was transferred to lefortovo, which is a legendary — if that's the correct word — or the notorious kgb prison, fsb prison that once held aleksandr solzhenitsyn and vladimir bukovsky and natan sharansky and so many other opponents of the kremlin, where i was held completely incommunicado, also in solitary confinement for five days. no explanation from anyone. and here i was now, thinking that there's going to be some kind of a new criminal case opened up against me, cos that's usually the reason why they bring somebody who is already a prisoner serving time to lefortovo — to open a new criminal case. frankly, i struggled to think why they would open a new criminal case against somebody who already had a 25—year sentence, which is — it's impossible to survive anyway. what's the point of adding a year or two on top of that?

but the way putin's repressive machine works doesn't always it has its own sort of internal dynamic. —— but the way putin's repressive machine works doesn't always operate according to logic — it has its own sort of internal dynamic. and so, that was my thinking until the morning of august 1, when i was escorted down by the fsb alpha special unit — you know, men covered in black balaclavas. and there was a bus parked in the internal courtyard of lefortovo prison. i was told to get up on it, and i did. and on that bus, i saw my friends and my colleagues — fellow political prisoners who had been serving time. many of them also, like myself, for speaking out against putin's war in ukraine. that was the moment when i understood what was happening, cos there could only be one reason why all of us would be on the same bus together. so, in a matter of days, you went from being woken in the middle of the night, believing you were

going to be executed. a couple of days, then, of complete uncertainty, and then realising you were to be free. that's why i say it's like a film. it's too much and too quick for the human mind to process it. it seems like some sort of a hollywood action movie, as opposed to something that happened in real life but, you know, here i am sitting in front of you. and what did you feel when you saw the people with whom you were being swapped? so, a prisoner swap, of course, means people like you, who have fought for human rights for a long time and who were punished for your political views. but you were swapped for russians on the other side. what did you feel about that? and seeing them? we only saw them from their backs when we were in that bus, where the exchange actually took place — it was on the tarmac of ankara's international airport in the military wing. and once the swap was officially complete, we saw the others — including vadim krasikov, putin's hit man, who was serving time in germany — walking up to the same plane that had just brought us from moscow. and only then, of course, we learned all the details of who were the people on the other side. it was very much an unequal exchange because on the one side were people who had never committed any crime

in their lives — cos the only reason that my colleagues and i were in prison was because we happened to have an opinion that's different from the opinion of vladimir putin on the war, on the repression, on the way his authoritarian regime functions in our country. that was our only, quote unquote, crime — and on the other side, as you say, there were actual criminals, spies, hackers, a murderer. and so, i understand the moral apprehension of some people about this. i fully understand the argument. and i've said this to german chancellor olaf scholz when i met him — first on the day of the exchange, and then again a couple of weeks ago. i said to him that i understand that it was a very difficult decision, especially for the german government, cos they were the ones who had to release the assassin. but to me, democracy is about difficult decisions. you know, easy decisions are for dictatorships, when everything is decided like this on a whim of one individual. democracy is about difficult decisions. but the main difference,

to my mind, between a democracy and a dictatorship is that for, for a democracy, nothing can be more valuable or more important than human life. and with this exchange, because of the difficult political decision taken by western governments, 16 people, 16 human souls, were saved from the hell of vladimir putin's gulag. isn't that worth releasing one assassin? evgenia, i remember you telling us that you slept with your phone because at any point, a call could come with the best news or the worst news. can you tell us when the call came that he was to be freed, what did you feel? i received a call from the white house and the kids and i were invited to meet — tojoin the us president at the white house on the following day,

on august 1st, where we met with other families of us citizens who had been taken hostage by the regime. and we were there at 9am in the morning. we only met the president at 11:30, so 2.5 hours later, and only after, only in retrospect, did i realise that we were actually waiting — the president himself was waiting for the actual exchange to take place. and i know that the phone call — vladimir talked to us, basically, from the tarmac, right after the exchange had taken place. there is footage of that moment and of that phone call taking place. and watching the footage is incredibly powerful. but what was it like for the two of you? what was it like to hear his

voice and know he was safe? i felt as if i was seeing it all through the eyes of our kids. that was the first call in over half a year. the previous call lasted for 15 minutes. we have three kids — five minutes per kid. that was torture. and i could see them talking to their dad, fully realising that they would see him shortly. that felt unreal. so, that footage where i see our kids, when i hear tears ofjoy in their voices, that will forever make me cry, i think. because still, i don't even remember — fully remember that moment.

i still am watching it through their eyes. and i have to ask, then, when you finally saw each other, when you arrived back in the us and then suddenly, you were back together and you were able to hug your children for the first time in years, you're able to be together, what was that like? honestly, it felt like we'd just seen each other the day before. those 2.5 years, yes, this was time stolen by the russian government — as it is being stolen from millions of families. this will forever make me feel angry, thinking about all that time that our kids lost with their dad. our oldest daughter turned 18 in his absence. she got her driver's licence, started working. our middle one is 15. she turned into a young lady in vladimir�*s absence. our son has turned into a young, independent man. yes, he's 12, but he's very independent in many ways.

so many things happened in vladimir�*s absence. many things that were stolen from us as a family, and this will forever make me angry. i will never, ever forgive that. but at the same time, it felt like we just parted the day before, so we just picked up the conversations. all the conversations. and the kids were — well, they followed vladimir everywhere. he went for a few days just talking, talking, talking, catching up. but there was a lot of love and hugging, a lot of affection, and that smoothed the transition and we were just happy to see each other. it'll be a process to transition fully back into normal. it's going to be difficult because i think it's important that people remember that it's actually much harder on the families of political prisoners than it is on us. because, you know, whatever i was going through, at least i knew why i was in prison. i hadn't committed a crime in my life but i am a political

opponent of vladimir putin. i've been in opposition to this regime for the past 25 years and we know what the price for that in russia is. but my wife and children are made to suffer only because they have the same name as me. and this is something that's been going on since the times of the soviet union and it's something that vladimir putin's regime continues today. i have to ask was it worth it? for all the suffering that you went through, for all the suffering you went through in terrible conditions, taking a principled stand, fighting for what you believe but as you've just said, the cost is so huge for people's families. do you feel now it was worth it? there are two honest answers to this. each one just as truthful as the other. answer number one — as a father, as a husband, as a human being, i regretted it every minute of every day that i was away from my family that i wasn't able to hug my

wife or even hear my children's voices on the phone. answer number two — as a russian politician, not only have i never regretted it but itjust could not have been any other way because i've always been of a firm conviction that a politician has to be in their own country. it's not possible — how could i have called on my fellow russian citizens to stand up and resist the putin dictatorship if i didn't do it myself? if i was sitting somewhere in faraway safety? i mean, it would be hypocritical. it would be unethical. it would be impossible. the putin regime rules by fear, just as the soviet regime had ruled by fear, but i've always believed that fear is a two—way street. it takes two sides. it's not only about the regime trying to instil fear in the population, it's also about people accepting or not accepting to be afraid and, to me, the biggest lesson from the soviet dissident movement — people who stood up to the soviet regime — chose not to be afraid. i believe in what i do. i think it's the right

thing to do. i care about russia. i love russia. i think russia deserves a better future than to live underan archaic, murderous, aggressive dictatorship that it's lived under for the past 25 years. i believe russia should be a normal, modern, democratic european country and i'm going to continue working towards that goal, whatever it takes. what about the role, then, of other governments? we've talked about the us and also the actions of olaf scholz, the german chancellor. but your friend sir bill browder, who we've spoken to on the programme before, he was critical of what he saw as a lack of urgency on the uk side. now, i know that you've seen the foreign secretary and i believe also the prime minister today. what do you make of the uk's approach to standing up for political prisoners now and taking action against putin? because there's a lot of rhetoric. there have been some new sanctions. the uk has taken what it considers to be a leadership role on ukraine. but when it comes to political prisoners, what's your view of the uk's attitude? irwin cotler, the former

justice minister of canada, somebody who has been one of the foremost international advocates for human rights — once wrote that the worst nightmare for a political prisoner is to be forgotten. i would often quote that phrase in my previous advocacy on behalf of political prisoners but now, i feeljust how important that really is. throughout everything that i was going through, you know, sitting in that small cell, not being able to speak to anyone, to go anywhere, to do anything, not being able to speak with my family, i never for a moment felt that i was being forgotten or ignored because i knew that so many good—hearted people in the democratic world were speaking out for us, were reminding people about us, were loudly talking, shouting about the fact that it is unacceptable that in the 21st century in a european country — or anywhere, for that matter — people are being put in prison with longer sentences than for drug dealers and murderersjust because they have an opinion

that happens to differ from the opinion of the people who are in power. and many of those voices came from the united kingdom. and i knew there were hearings in parliament, there were speeches, there were press articles, there were public events. and bill browder, whom you mentioned — sir william browder — he played a very important role in this and i'm profoundly grateful for everything he has done. and it was also important to me that so many western diplomats, including the then british ambassador deborah bronnert, tried to attend my trial. i say "tried" because my entire trial was held behind closed doors — nobody was allowed in — but i knew from my lawyers, when they made their way through the crowds into the closed and locked—up courtroom, they told me that there were diplomats and there were always british diplomats present as well. and, yes, we met together with the prime minister this morning at number ten downing street with the foreign secretary and i used that opportunity, among other things, to thank the british government for the attention it paid to my case, to the cases

of other political prisoners and to urge them to continue to do this because let us not forget that while the 16 of us have been rescued from putin's gulag, so many hundreds and hundreds and hundreds still remain back there. they still have to wake up at 5am in their small cells. they still have to attach their bunk to the wall. they still have to walk in small circles all day, not being able to — to write, to speak to anyone, to do anything. and for so many of them, it is notjust a question of unjust imprisonment — although that, in itself, would be completely unacceptable — but for so many of them, it is a question of life or death, and we need to now be talking about them. we need to now be advocating for them. we need to make sure now that they, too, are able to be free, come home, and be reunited with their families. just to both of you, after everything and after everything you've been through as a family but also through as campaigners and activists and having such a strong conviction that change has to come in russia, can you see a day when you will

go back and would you still fearfor your life if you do? evgenia. if i may add just shortly to what vladimir was saying about political prisoners and the british government in this story — i was very happy to learn that a parliamentary group is being formed to address, specifically, hostage—taking and imprisonment for political reasons because i see this as a signal that the current official policies are not exactly perfect and could be improved. and i urge... i encourage fully this discussion and cooperation between democratic countries on this specific issue because not only is it important to save the lives of those political prisoners who are now held behind bars forstanding up to dictatorships around the world but it is also important to somehow try

and find ways to kerb the growing crisis. —— to curb the growing crisis. it is important to try and work to create this cooperation between democracies, to build a set of instruments to prevent such practices from being used in the first place. so, i will continue this advocacy, absolutely. and i have no doubt that russia will become a democracy one day. but i think that we need to create the conditions for that to happen sooner, rather than later. and of course, ukraine's victory in this war is absolutely crucial in this, as is the thorough implementation of sanctions, so that the regime is prevented from avoiding them. and the third very important factor, i believe, is the support and solidarity with that part of russian civil society that stands against this regime and fights

for a better future for our country because if we want to see russia a democracy one day, and this is the only guarantee of peace and stability on the european continent — we need this potential, the potential of people who represent a different russia, a russia that will live in peace with itself and its neighbours. and i believe that these people should receive all the support and solidarity of the free world. you know, i'm notjust a politician, i'm a historian by education, too, and, you know, the historical trends are unmistakable. just 3.5 or four decades ago, if you looked at the map of europe, half of european countries were living under dictatorial, authoritarian regimes. today, there are only two dictatorships left on the european continent — these are putin's russia and lukashenko's belarus — so, the trends are absolutely unmistakable and, you know, as they say, the arc of history bends towards liberty. it may not bend as fast as we'd like but the direction is in no doubt whatsoever. i have absolutely no doubt that russia will become a democracy,

that i will be back. you know, when our plane was taking off from vnukovo airport in moscow en route to ankara on august 1st, the fsb officer who was my personal escort sitting next to me, turned to me and said, " look out the window. this is the last time you're seeing your motherland." ijust laughed in his face and i said, "look, man. i am a historian. i don'tjust think, i don'tjust believe, i know that i will be back home in russia, and it's going to happen much sooner than you can imagine." if i canjust ask, finally, what are you looking forward to most? a holiday? a normal christmas at home? a moment where you can stop and understand, if you can, everything that you've been through? processing would be a good start. this — just being able to slow down for a little bit, to process everything that's happened to us, to talk

to the kids, to process it together as a family. i hope that this will happen one day. but as i said, the amount of work that lies ahead is enormous and i don't think that we have the right to stop right now. but there is christmas, yes. so, there will be a christmas tree and there will be lots of, i don't know, there will be lots of hugging and christmas movie watching and baking cookies — that i will make sure of. you know, we've been together for 22 years and, as they say, we finish each other's sentences. before evgenia began to speak, i was going to say to you that i most look forward to decorating the christmas tree with our kids, cos it's been a while since i've done this. that's on a personal level. on the grand scale of things, the most important goal is to work towards that russia that will be free, peaceful and democratic, because that is so important.

notjust for us — that goes without saying — but it's also very important for ukraine, the whole of europe — frankly, for the whole of the international community — because if we want to see a europe that will be whole, free and at peace with itself, the only way that is ever going to happen is with a free, peaceful and democratic russia as a part of that equation. we have to do everything we can to make sure that that day comes a little faster. 0k. vladimir and evgenia kara—murza, thank you so much for speaking to us today. and i know that everybody watching will wish you all the very, very best after everything that you have been through. thank you so much. it's very good to be on your programme. thank you.

hello. another cloudy afternoon for much of england and wales but it is brightening up now for the north across scotland and across northern ireland. with the weather front bringing a change, there is some rain and that will continue to push southwards, albeit light and patchy mostly and then high pressure. we have seen the weather front giving significant outbreaks of rain, more so than recently across the eastern side of scotland, the north west of england and north wales. behind it, just the odd shower and plenty of sunshine, even sunshine ahead of it and slightly less cold than it has been recently because we have seen breaks in the cloud and a change in wind direction. spots of drizzle as it moves southwards through the night and behind it, it will turn chillier.

temperatures low enough in rural areas to give a touch of grass frost and the odd bit of fog on monday morning but otherwise a much drier and brighter day, plenty more sunshine compared with recent days although this breeze could give showers but foremost lots of sunshine, temperatures not too dissimilar to those of today and feeling quite pleasant. the sunshine compensates. through the night, skies will clear under the high pressure and temperatures will tumble away. tuesday, watch for a bit showery rain in the south and east and weak weather fronts coming into the north. a chilly start on tuesday, mist and fog, more breeze into the east, more showers and a bit more cloud so that will temper the feel of things and temperatures will be down a little, only because we will have a chillier start. still plenty of sunshine for most. tuesday into wednesday continues cloud, the breeze from the southern north sea

which could bring showers, a weak weather front pushes into the north of scotland so populating the skies with a bit more cloud around but still good spells of sunshine in between and he will feel quite pleasant in the sunshine. as we head towards next weekend, the chances will get colder and more unsettled as well, so perhaps a touch of wintry weather on the way, colder as we approach the latter part of the weekend. as ever, more on the website. live from london — this is bbc news. drone attacks between russia and ukraine escalate into the biggest exchange since the start of the war. donald trump is projected to have won arizona —

taking all seven swing states in the us presidential election. honoring the fallen — king charles joins other senior royals for events to mark remembrance sunday. and reaching the finish line. sir mark cavendish — the greatest sprint—cyclist in history — wins his final professional race. hello. ukraine and russia have launched their biggest drone attacks against each other since the start of the war. according to the ukrainian military, russia launched 145 drones overnight targeting various parts of the country. ukraine 5 air defence says they were able to down 62 drones. meanwhile, russian officials stated that they had destroyed 70 ukrainian drones across six regions. according to the mayor of moscow, 32 ukrainian drones were destroyed as they approached the russian capital, resulting in the temporary

closure of two of moscow 5 international airports.