a man accused of sex trafficking minors but not charged. and here, the row over farmers' inheritance tax — newsnight can reveal the environment department wants to soften the chancellor's plan in order to help farmers. tonight the treasury tell us — no change. welcome to newsnight, live each weekday with insight and interviews. with us tonight, labour mp for leeds central, alex sobel. and emily sheffield, former editor of the evening standard paper, who worked as an advisor on the conservative

election campaign. the president—elect met the president at the white house today to talk about the handover of power. the last time the two met? that tv debate wherejoe biden described mr trump as "a convicted felon with the morals of an alleycat". mr trump responded by calling him a "feeble old guy". today, though, it was warm and relaxed. politics is tough, and it's in many cases not a very nice world. but it is a nice world today and i appreciate it very much, a transition that's so smooth, it'll be as smooth as it can get, and i very much appreciate that, joe. you're welcome. it comes on the day mr trump made the world's richest man elon musk head of a new department of government efficiency, john ratcliffe — his pick to lead the cia. and this fox news host, author and army veteran pete hegseth, his new defence secretary. hegseth is 44 and served

in afghanistan and iraq, has no government experience and will be responsible for the world's most powerful military in his first politicial role. i don't really wash my hands ever. someone help me! it'sjust not... germs are not a real thing. america's hottest new destination seems to be del rio, texas — or, as illegals might call it, bidenville. we should not have women in combat roles. i think that's the most powerful way you can change lives is by saving souls and by introducing people tojesus christ. the white house is staffed by millennial... pro—palestinian millennials. and what israel's about to do is bring hell down on hamas if they do it right. i mean real war, not like tv war. real war, stacking bodies, dead people. well, you've got to clear out the population. maybe egypt could throw us a bone and help some of these palestinians go over there for a second... plenty of countries with plenty of space. with plenty of space to take them. exactly. the military cannot be organised like a harvard faculty lounge, catering to ever more obscure constituencies. can you keep a country if you are teaching young people

to hate that very same country? we are about to find out. the nation's top diplomaticjob, secretary of state, goes to florida senator marco rubio and a former presidential rival to mr trump in 2016. in the past the pair have traded insults, with mr rubio mocking what he described as donald trump's spray tan and "small hands". five days ago we began to explain to the american people that donald trump is a con artist. cheering victoria coates was an advisor to donald trump during his first administration on issues of national security. she's also vice president of the heritage foundation, a conservative think tank based in washington dc, and asked her whether the appointment of matt gates as attorney general suggests that donald trump will be going after his enemies. what i think it suggests is that he's very serious about department ofjustice reform, because that's what congressman gaetz has been focused

on and what he wants to do. and i think most americans, you know, who voted overwhelmingly for the former president, agree that this is a critical thing that we need to get done immediately. and so i think that's what's really signalled by the gaetz appointment. 0k. and i can tell you that emily brooks of the hill is reporting that there were audible gasps by house republicans waiting to start leadership elections when they heard of trump's choice for attorney general. why would that be? oh, i think everyone was surprised. he wasn't on any of the lists that had been circulated in the press, as was the case with pete hegseth going to defence, which was announced last night. so i think, you know, these are surprising appointments for the establishment, but i think what you're seeing is the former president moving very expeditiously to put together his team, particularly in national security issues, so that he can hit the ground running onjanuary 20th.

and he has much longer relationships with these people than he did coming in in 2016, when you had to do all sorts of kind of general interviews with people he hadn't known previously. so i think this isjust more expeditious. i wonder if those gasps could be down to the fact that former white house aide cassidy hutchinson wrote in her memoir that matt gaetz harassed her repeatedly — he denied that — or that in 2020 the justice department opened an investigation into gaetz for allegedly sex trafficking a 17—year—old. no charges were brought. could it be to do with that? well, i think certainly there have been allegations against congressman gaetz, and i am sure they will get a full and open airing when he has his confirmation hearing. but i think it is more just general surprise because these people work with congressman gaetz every day and you know, he has many, many friends in the congress. it's not as if he's some kind of an outcast.

let me ask you about florida senator marco rubio, who looks like he's going to get the nation's top diplomatic post. he's known for his hardline positions on china and iran. and he also said back in september he's not on — this is to do with russia and ukraine — he said he's not on russia's side but the reality is that the war in ukraine is going to end with a negotiated settlement. does that mean that a settlement is going to be forced upon ukraine? no, i really don't think so. and i don't think that's what the former president has said. and it's certainly not consistent with senator rubio's record on this. i think, you know, i've been hearing from ukrainian counterparts that they are also interested in figuring out a way to conclude this war. but what president trump has said is that he doesn't want putin to do this again, he wants to make sure there are repercussions for this, he doesn't want to hand ukraine to russia on a platter by any stretch of the imagination, but that he does want the killing to end. he sees this as a stalemated war that was sort of created by the kind

of you'd call haphazard support of the biden—harris administration. i think he's going to take a much more direct approach, and it sounds like senator rubio is on board with that. and, of course, senator rubio, back in 2016, used to say repeatedly when he was donald trump's presidential rival that donald trump was a conman. is he right? well, i worked for senator cruz in the 2016 primary and managed to work happily for president trump for four years. and so i think a lot of things were said on both sides of a political primary. i know you have this over in the uk as well, and that after the election is concluded, people can, you know, put the country in front of personality. i mean, heck, we saw that on display in washington today with a pretty cordial meeting between president biden and former president trump, which a month or so ago would have seemed impossible. yeah. is he a conman or not, do you think? i do not think the former president is a conman. i don't think you would have seen the kind of electoral success he had on november 5th if he were. the american people actually aren't that foolish. thank you so much.

all good. any time. nick's here, and the new appointments are coming thick and fast. tell us more about matt gaetz. it is controversial. yes, we talk about a divided _ it is controversial. yes, we talk about a divided america - it is controversial. yes, we talk about a divided america and i it is controversial. yes, we talk about a divided america and al about a divided america and a divided media but the us media are absolutely united tonight, this is the story. fox news are leading on it, america's top cop and the new york times describing it as a provocative move. interesting that victoria coates was saying there, yes it's a surprise, but more of a surprise people didn't know it was happening was that does not appear to be the view on capitol hill. republicans on capitol hill seem to be absolutely astonished by it. the new york times says representative max miller of ohio, a republican, says he is shocked but happy because he says matt gaetz will be out of the house of representatives. a senator from texas is saying he is

still trying to absorb this. during the campaign donald trump promised retribution for the investigations launched against him. this is what he said about the appointment as attorney general, matt will root out systemic corruption at the department ofjustice and return it to its true mission of fighting crime, upholding our democracy and constitution. i crime, upholding our democracy and constitution-— constitution. i mentioned ukraine to victoria coates. _ constitution. i mentioned ukraine to victoria coates. one _ constitution. i mentioned ukraine to victoria coates. one nation - constitution. i mentioned ukraine to| victoria coates. one nation watching victoria coates. 0ne nation watching very closely all these appointments will be ukraine and president zelensky, given donald trump's comments about ending the war with russia in 2a hours. today on the bbc podcast ukrainecast the man who stepped down as secretary general of nato last month jens stoltenberg and who worked with mr trump for four years through his first term explained how he approached working with him. to listen to what he says, sit down and address the concerns he expresses. you can disagree or agree, and it's no secret that i disagree on some of the things he says about trade and climate change and other issues. but whoever is the president

of the united states, or any other nato allied country, when there are concerns, when there are issues, we have to sit down and address them. and last time we were able to actually find a way forward together. nato was stronger at the end of his term than at the beginning. more allies spent more on defence. there were more us troops in europe in 2020 than in 2016. and to hear the full interview withjens stoltenberg you can download ukrainecast via bbc sounds. you can put your phone up to the qr code to take you straight to that podcast. and, nick, you've got more to add on the subject of ukraine. there is a bit of a debate about what donald trump means for ukraine. if he ends the conflict overnight thenit if he ends the conflict overnight then it is basically freezing the borders where they are now, meaning russia gets about 20% of ukraine and

there is no way ukraine will be able tojoin nato. 0ne there is no way ukraine will be able tojoin nato. one of the big appointments is mike waltz as national security adviser, who wrote a piece for the economist, talking about donald trump wanting to end the war and stop killing. tough talks with van der meer a putin he says and if vladimir putin refuses to talk then washington can provide more weapons to ukraine with fewer restrictions on their use so maybe that will be good for ukraine. i spoke to one senior figure in the uk defence firmament who has been in touch with people from the trump camp and this person said to me, a staunch supporter of ukraine, this person said they are very, very unhappy with what they heard from the trump world, talking about how it is all aboutjust end this problem, it was described to me, it's just all transactional. lats it's just all transactional. lots more to come _ it's just all transactional. lots more to come on _ it's just all transactional. lots more to come on that - it's just all transactional. lots more to come on that and - it'sjust all transactional. lots more to come on that and we will cover it here on newsnight.

as we said earlier, our panel is labour mp alex sobel and emily sheffield former editor of the evening standard. and an adviser to the comic collection campaign injuly. nick has a breaking story about a row at the heart of government over the proposal announced in the budget by rachel reeves to change the inheritance rules forfarmers. many farmers were angered by the plan which they said would prevent them from passing farms down through the generations. it's reported that upto 10,000 farmers are expected to head to london for a march against the plans next tuesday. nick, what's your story? we really have a good old—fashioned whitehall row. it is an open secret that the environment and rural affairs department, which looks after the interests of farmers, is not happy about this. i understand they felt they were not properly consulted on the tax change in the budget. it sounds like they were informed of the night before the budget and that is obviously far too late to make a change. after the

budget to the environment department proposed to the treasury an idea that could soften the impact of the new rules, but tonight the treasury have said to me, no change. let's remind ourselves of the chancellor's plans, outlined by rachel reeves on budget day. we will reform agricultural property relief and business property relief. from april 2026, the first £1 million of combined business and agricultural assets will continue to attract no inheritance tax at all. but for assets over £1 million, inheritance tax will apply with a 50% relief at an effective rate of 20%. this will ensure that we continue to protect small family farms, and three quarters... with three quarters of claims unaffected by these changes. just to the left of the chancellor when she made her statement was her

deputy darrenjones. quick as a budget night, you picked up on this with him. jeremy clarkson tweeted, "farmers, i know that you have been shafted today." kirstie allsop tweeted, "rachel reeves has �*effed' all farmers." what you say to those two? look, they are not here to defend themselves but i thinkjeremy and kirstie are well known conservative supporters so i wouldn't be surprised by them being unhappy with the decisions of a labour government. let's delve into this row. farmers are not happy _ let's delve into this row. farmers are not happy and _ let's delve into this row. farmers are not happy and the _ let's delve into this row. farmers. are not happy and the environment department has two big worries, they are firstly concerned this could become totemic in rural britain but they hope the overall spending increases on the nhs and schools will be in a range of rural britain. they wonder why rachel reeves is inflicting such grief on the government for a relatively small amount of money. this will raise a rant about £565 million. they are pushing for these changes to be soft

and. underthe pushing for these changes to be soft and. under the old and new rules you can avoid paying inheritance tax on your farm can avoid paying inheritance tax on yourfarm if can avoid paying inheritance tax on your farm if you can avoid paying inheritance tax on yourfarm if you pass it onto can avoid paying inheritance tax on your farm if you pass it onto your children and you live for a further seven years, but the environment department believes that will not work this new system because the changes are coming into place in april 26, changes are coming into place in april26, it changes are coming into place in april 26, it will not work for older people, too late to plan for the seven—year rule for some so they have been pressing the chancellor to exempt a section of of older farmers, possibly those over 80, from the seven year rule. the word was that rachel reeves saw this problem and was taking it seriously but the word to me tonight from the treasury is we stand by the policy, no mitigations. the treasury says this policy is not bad, it will only affect around 500 larger estates each year and couples can pass on estates worth £3 million tax—free if you touch up all the inheritance tax

breaks. —— if you tot up. let's talk to rebecca wilson, a fifth generation farmer who works on her mum and dads farm in yorkshire. whereabouts? just outside harrogate. they farm sheep and arable, and when your parents die and pass this farm onto you, what could your inheritance tax bill be under the chancellor's plans? my my fear which is shared across many if not all family farms across the country is the inheritance tax bill will face upon the death of parents or grandparents. for us on a medium—sized family farm we could be looking at a tax bill of £1 million. yes, we can pay that over ten years and there are some personal allowances but quite simply the profits we make from our farm will not cover that tax bill, we will be left with selling the farm or a percentage of the farm, again putting the economic and financial viability at risk. figs putting the economic and financial viability at risk.— viability at risk. as nick has 'ust said, a viability at risk. as nick has 'ust

said. a farm fl viability at risk. as nick has 'ust said, a farm worth i viability at risk. as nick has 'ust said, a farm worth 3 i viability at risk. as nick has 'ust said, a farm worth 3 millionh viability at risk. as nick hasjust i said, a farm worth 3 million owned by two people will pay no inheritance tax, and after that you will pay half the inheritance tax everyone else pays. why do you think farmers are a special case? it is definitely the _ farmers are a special case? it 3 definitely the headline figure which captures people's attention that we have relief and what seems to be quite a large threshold. this have relief and what seems to be quite a large threshold.— quite a large threshold. this is footaae quite a large threshold. this is footage from _ quite a large threshold. this is footage from your _ quite a large threshold. this is footage from your farm, - quite a large threshold. this is footage from your farm, i - quite a large threshold. this is i footage from your farm, i should point out. footage from your farm, i should oint out. , ., , ., point out. this larger threshold does not cover— point out. this larger threshold does not cover many _ point out. this larger threshold does not cover many viable - point out. this larger threshold | does not cover many viable food producing farms in the country, unfortunately the industry believes the figures the treasury has used are outdated, some account for the pr claims, not apr, and i think the main thing is that figures include smallholdings and perhaps houses with pony projects, they are not viable farming businesses. this solution potentially _ viable farming businesses. this solution potentially the environment department was suggesting, those over the age of 80 for example might be exempt from the seven year rule,

would that help? it is be exempt from the seven year rule, would that help?— would that help? it is a start but we are calling — would that help? it is a start but we are calling for _ would that help? it is a start but we are calling for a _ would that help? it is a start but we are calling for a full - would that help? it is a start but we are calling for a full u-turn, l we are calling for a full u—turn, the nature of farming and family farming businesses, they are so unique compared to other industries across the country. as i mentioned we are not that profitable because we are not that profitable because we are not that profitable because we are constrained by the supply chain and things like that. being constrained by a further financial pressure will decimate family farms. alex sobel, it is your government with their policy, what do you say to rebecca?— to rebecca? farming is vitalfor food security — to rebecca? farming is vitalfor food security and _ to rebecca? farming is vitalfor food security and it _ to rebecca? farming is vitalfor food security and it is _ to rebecca? farming is vitalfor food security and it is vital - to rebecca? farming is vitalfor food security and it is vital we l food security and it is vital we work — food security and it is vital we work with _ food security and it is vital we work with the community but these inheritance — work with the community but these inheritance issues were brought in by 1984— inheritance issues were brought in by 1984 -- — inheritance issues were brought in by 1984 —— in inheritance issues were brought in by 1984 -- in 1984 inheritance issues were brought in by 1984 —— in 1984 and the nature of the farming — by 1984 —— in 1984 and the nature of the farming sector has changed in that time — the farming sector has changed in that time. ~ ., ., , ., ., the farming sector has changed in thattime. ~ ., ., , ., ., ., the farming sector has changed in thattime. ., ., , ., ., ., ., that time. what does that have to do with these proposals? _ that time. what does that have to do with these proposals? i— that time. what