tv The Context BBC News November 14, 2024 8:30pm-9:01pm GMT
8:30 pm
hello from the bbc sport centre. we start with football. there are eight matches in the nations league on thursday — two of them have finished, six are under way on matchday five. england are playing greece in athens — it's 1—0 at half time, ollie watkins with the goal. france are hosting israel — it's goaless. belgium are taking on italy — the visitors leading 1—0 — newcastle's sandro tonali with his first goal for italy. you can keep up to date with the rest of the matches on the website. but speaking of italy — italian coach claudio ranieri has come out of retirement at the age of 73 to take charge of as roma until the end of the season after they sacked croatian ivan juric. ranieri retired in may, ending a career in which he famously led leicester city to the premier league title in 2016 and coached a host of teams from europe's top leagues. he was born in rome, and returns to the club where he began his playing career in 1973. golf — and rory mcilroy holds a share of the lead on 5
8:31 pm
under par after the first round of the season—ending dp world tour championship in dubai, alongside tyrell hatton. a top ten finish will guarantee mcilroy wins the year—long points race. thriston lawrence, the south african who is second in the race to dubai standings behind mcilroy, is the only player who can catch the northern irishman. japan have reached the quarterfinals of the billiejean king cup finals for the first time since 2013, after rallying to beat romania 2—1. japan went through when eri hozumi and shuko aoyama defeated monica niculescu and elena—gabriela ruse in the deciding doubles match. japan will face italy in the quarterfinals. the opening match in the session had to be moved back two hours because of a severe weather alert in the malaga region of spain.
8:32 pm
mark cavendish has been reflecting on his career after retiring from professional cycling. he's been world champion on the road and the track, he broke the tour de france record for stage wins with his 35th victory over the summer, and he signed off from the sport winning a one—day race in singapore on sunday. i have been too old for the last three years. light, i'm so much older than anybody else in cycling. so i am very fortunate i can carry on to my age, if i'm honest. the people i turned pro with retired, and their sons retired. m0 pro with retired, and their sons retired.— pro with retired, and their sons retired. ., . ., sons retired. no change in the score in the — sons retired. no change in the score in the nations _ sons retired. no change in the score in the nations league, | score in the nations league, but you can keep up—to—date with those matches on the sport website. you're watching the context.
8:33 pm
and it's time for our our weekly segment, ai decoded. welcome to ai decoded, that time of the week when we look in depth at some of the most eye catching stories in the world of artificial intelligence. we had a short break last week due to the us presidential elction. so, now we know the result, how will the future of artificial intelligence look once donald trump returns to the white house? the guardian says elon musk�*s influence on donald trump's administration could lead to tougher safety standards for al — that's according to leading scientists who have previously worked closely with musk on addressing al's dangers. cnbc reports that denmark has laid out a framework to help eu member states use generative artificial intelligence in compliance with the european union's strict new ai act. the new approach has won the backing of some of denmark's biggest banks, pension managers and insurance firms, as well as us tech giant, microsoft. the financial times
8:34 pm
asks, should we be asks, should we be worried over hurting ai machines�* feelings? the paper says ai company anthropic has appointed an "ai welfare" researcher to assess, among other things, whether its systems are inching towards consciousness or agency. and, if so, whether their welfare must be considered. and finally in the metro, the vatican and microsoft have unveiled a digital twin of st peter's basilica. using artificial intelligence people can visualise and explore the building, while ai is also being used to help manage visitor flows and identify conservation problems. our ai correspondent, marc cieslak, has been to the holy see and we'll be showing you his stunning report later in the programme. with me tonight is connor leahy, ceo of ai safety research company, conjecture. and also with us, our regular ai decoded presenter priya lakhani, ceo of century tech. great to have both of you with
8:35 pm
us. let's begin with that mention of elon musk. many people see him as a destructor, a d regulator, but actually he has warned that the unrestricted development of artificial intelligence could be catastrophic for humanity. given his influence with donald trump, are we going to see tougher safety standards regarding ai? it tougher safety standards regarding ai?— tougher safety standards reauardin ai? , , regarding ai? it is extremely hard to say- _ regarding ai? it is extremely hard to say. one _ regarding ai? it is extremely hard to say. one thing - regarding ai? it is extremely| hard to say. one thing donald trump andjd hard to say. one thing donald trump and jd vance have been pretty consistent on has been deregulation, especially in technology. but elon musk has been pretty consistent in the past about talking about the catastrophic, even extinction level risks from artificial intelligence. others have spoken about how elon musk really understands it is kind of more of a suicide rate is going on right now. especially in the us right now, there is a narrative that the us must race
8:36 pm
with china and beat china to get to ai first. this is a losing proposition for everyone involved in this is something that elon musk understands quite well for six. [30 that elon musk understands quite well for six.— quite well for six. do you think elon _ quite well for six. do you think elon musk- quite well for six. do you think elon musk is - quite well for six. do you think elon musk is going | quite well for six. do you l think elon musk is going to quite well for six. do you - think elon musk is going to be humanity's saviour?— think elon musk is going to be humanity's saviour? well, some can do it, _ humanity's saviour? well, some can do it. he _ humanity's saviour? well, some can do it, he has _ humanity's saviour? well, some can do it, he has been _ humanity's saviour? well, some can do it, he has been pretty- can do it, he has been pretty damn lucky, hasn't he? what could that — damn lucky, hasn't he? what could that look _ damn lucky, hasn't he? what could that look like _ damn lucky, hasn't he? what could that look like in - damn lucky, hasn't he? what could that look like in terms | could that look like in terms of that tougher regulation? the main thing _ of that tougher regulation? the main thing is — of that tougher regulation? tue: main thing is that of that tougher regulation? the main thing is that is a of that tougher regulation? the: main thing is that is a small number of companies and organisations recent was extremely powerful forms of agi, artificial general intelligence. this is different from the kind of applications we might see in a medical context or maybe even a chat box contacts. fir context or maybe even a chat box contacts.— context or maybe even a chat box contacts. , box contacts. or maybe even the facilitation _ box contacts. or maybe even the facilitation of _ box contacts. or maybe even the facilitation of st _ box contacts. or maybe even the facilitation of st peter's - facilitation of st peter's basilica be urban to see later. i don't think anyone want to see harsher regulations on these kind of applications for al, it is fantastic. what ai, it is fantastic. what people are more worried about
8:37 pm
is al systems which are more intelligent than humans. we don't know how to control ai systems right now, we barely know how to work them. if ai systems are smarter than people and we don't know how to control them, how does that end? t control them, how does that end? ~' . . end? i think the fundamental auestion end? i think the fundamental question here _ end? i think the fundamental question here is _ end? i think the fundamental question here is what - end? i think the fundamental question here is what is - end? i think the fundamental question here is what is the l question here is what is the meaning _ question here is what is the meaning of intelligence? we are talking _ meaning of intelligence? we are talking about some simpler systems and then some pretty profound — systems and then some pretty profound systems. you explained the meaning of intelligence in the meaning of intelligence in the compendium you have created _ the compendium you have created. can you explain your meaning _ created. can you explain your meaning of intelligence kicks for me. — meaning of intelligence kicks for me, fundamentally, intelligence is the ability to solve — intelligence is the ability to solve problems.— intelligence is the ability to solve problems. humans are definitely — solve problems. humans are definitely unusually - definitely unusually intelligent in this regard. but it is not special. our closest ancestors, the chimpanzee, a couple of million of years ago, is a very similar to us. they have very similar brain
8:38 pm
structures to us, about all the same parts, ours isjust about three times bigger. tt is same parts, ours is 'ust about three times bigger._ three times bigger. it is only a tiny bit _ three times bigger. it is only a tiny bit of— three times bigger. it is only a tiny bit of our— three times bigger. it is only a tiny bit of our dna - three times bigger. it is only a tiny bit of our dna which i three times bigger. it is onlyi a tiny bit of our dna which is different. the element through a tiny percentage. but even at this difference of three towns in the brain size, it is the difference between chimpanzees from rocks at each other and to human beings going to the mains. . ., ., ., mains. the challenge of that i think people _ mains. the challenge of that i think people would _ mains. the challenge of that i think people would say - mains. the challenge of that i think people would say is - mains. the challenge of that i think people would say is you | think people would say is you are talking about scaling, in a sense, — are talking about scaling, in a sense, and you are comparing the scaling of the chimp brain to the — the scaling of the chimp brain to the human brain. but as humans _ to the human brain. but as humans when we talk about ourselves we have these biological drives, we are interested in competition, territory, survival, reproduction. but we have these intrinsic— reproduction. but we have these intrinsic biological drives. whereas a machine does not necessarily have a biological drive, — necessarily have a biological drive, it _ necessarily have a biological drive, it is learning patterns. how — drive, it is learning patterns. how do — drive, it is learning patterns. how do you square that circle
8:39 pm
making — how do you square that circle making that sort of comparison between — making that sort of comparison between chimps and humans, and then humans and an agi, which isa sort— then humans and an agi, which isa sort of— then humans and an agi, which is a sort of skilled artificial neural— is a sort of skilled artificial neural network, if you like. it neural network, if you like. [it is neural network, if you like. tit is important to see that intelligence is a separate thing from drives or emotions. you can be extremely intelligent and have very few emotions. i think everyone has made a social path in their life who is very intelligent but didn't have any emotions. ai systems will not have emotions, they will be more like it social path or cycle pass, but that does not necessarily make me feel good... necessarily make me feel aood. .. . , necessarily make me feel aood... . , , , good... that is slightly worrying. _ good. .. that is slightly worrying. i— good. .. that is slightly worrying, i think- good... that is slightly worrying, i think most| good... that is slightly - worrying, i think most people watching would agree. and that this compendium, i underlined, you say, ultimately no more intelligent and powerful ageing to size the future. you are looking back a few million years, talking about how humans evolved, they became much more powerful than hm fancies,
8:40 pm
therefore it controlled the chimpanzees' destiny. you are suggesting that now ai might control us as humans. it is a very dystopian take, some might say. very dystopian take, some might sa . ., very dystopian take, some might sa , ., ., , . , very dystopian take, some might sa. ., ., , . say. how realistic is i's a? i think if it — say. how realistic is i's a? i think if it is _ say. how realistic is i's a? i think if it is possible, - say. how realistic is i's a? i think if it is possible, and l say. how realistic is i's a? i l think if it is possible, and we create machines that are smarter than humans that we don't control. the same way that chimps are much stronger than others. i couldn't take a chimp. i don't think any of us could. but we control chimps because of our superior intelligence, abilities, and so on. so, if we make machines that are cleverer, smarter, better at creating new technologies.- better at creating new technologies. better at creating new technoloies. , ' ., technologies. the stuff that denmark is _ technologies. the stuff that denmark is doing, - technologies. the stuff that denmark is doing, these i denmark is doing, these guardrails described as allowing businesses and industries to be more compliant with the eu's law on al. how
8:41 pm
useful would that be trying to curb some of this that you are talking about?— talking about? think the eu lus talking about? think the eu [us to talking about? think the eu plugs to is— talking about? think the eu plugs to is an _ talking about? think the eu plugs to is an interesting i plugs to is an interesting piece of legislation, as it is one of the own the pieces of legislation to talk about general ai systems and the risks of them. —— the eu ai act. i think it is an example of best practice of how to employ current systems. i think this is the kind of work, the precursor to what i would look like to integrate powerful ai systems into our economy. but it is very far from the kind of human level intelligence systems we are talking about right here. so definitely an important step in this direction. i think the eu ai act over the next couple of years will be sharpening its focus quite a lot on these systemic and general—purpose ai systems and it will be very interesting to see how those systems shape up. fin
8:42 pm
interesting to see how those systems shape up.— systems shape up. on the denmark— systems shape up. on the denmark piece of work, i systems shape up. on the l denmark piece of work, one systems shape up. on the - denmark piece of work, one of the challenges i can see that as they— the challenges i can see that as they talk about, if you are going to _ as they talk about, if you are going to have an ai system in the private or public sector, here is a framework so you can ensure — here is a framework so you can ensure you _ here is a framework so you can ensure you are using that and you are — ensure you are using that and you are compliant and the eu ai act _ you are compliant and the eu ai act some — you are compliant and the eu ai act. some of these things feel like they will stifle innovation, particularly for small— innovation, particularly for small businesses. it talks about— small businesses. it talks about making sure that your ai assistant— about making sure that your ai assistant is dealing with certain— assistant is dealing with certain competencies, and if it is not — certain competencies, and if it is not as should stop. i can just imagine with a small business who wants to utilise this technology, the more productive, have those predictions coming to for car supply— predictions coming to for car supply and demand, what you think— supply and demand, what you think about the stifling innovation? some of the issues innovation? some of the issues in the _ innovation? some of the issues in the us — innovation? some of the issues in the us y _ innovation? some of the issues in the us. y gavin newsom, the governor, — in the us. y gavin newsom, the governor, didn't sign off on that— governor, didn't sign off on that bill— governor, didn't sign off on that bill in california which elon— that bill in california which elon musk actually supported. how— elon musk actually supported. how can— elon musk actually supported. how can we create regulation,
8:43 pm
furnace. — how can we create regulation, furnace, and avoid the catastrophe and a suicide race, but they— catastrophe and a suicide race, but they were in a fair way so everybody _ but they were in a fair way so everybody can benefit from the opportunities that al brings? that— opportunities that al brings? that is— opportunities that al brings? that is the trillion dollar question, isn't it? the true answer is that basically there is always a fundamental trade—off between short—term growth and long—term systemic risk. a form of animation i believe should have been stifled, bad bond during that lead financial crisis. these were a new innovative form of financial product, and they lead to a huge market crash that harmed millions of people. but some people got really rich and they innovated a lot. it is and they innovated a lot. it is a question of how can we get the good kind of things that we want while mitigating no downsides? i think there is plenty of very fair criticism of the eu ai act, that maybe it has set the wrong trade—off. but i think it is important there is always a trade—off, thatis there is always a trade—off, that is no fee lunch. t there is always a trade-off, that is no fee lunch.- there is always a trade-off,
8:44 pm
that is no fee lunch. i want to bring this _ that is no fee lunch. i want to bring this question _ that is no fee lunch. i want to bring this question of - that is no fee lunch. i want to bring this question of should | bring this question of should we be fretting over al's feelings? i'm sensing a now from you! t feelings? i'm sensing a now from you!— feelings? i'm sensing a now from you! i think a lot of this is kind of— from you! i think a lot of this is kind of a — from you! i think a lot of this is kind of a disruption - from you! i think a lot of this is kind of a disruption to - from you! i think a lot of this is kind of a disruption to a i is kind of a disruption to a certain degree. i think we are seeing people already falling in love with chat bots, this is already quite a big problem among younger generations and also in the east. i think we have very severe and unaccounted for mental health concerns, when people believe these things are actually emotional and care about them. could hypothetically be some kind of thinking machine with emotions? may be, i don't know. but we are nowhere near that, and at the idea that we should therefore care about a computer is feeling i think is kind of a dangerous feeling. innate is feeling i think is kind of a dangerous feeling.- dangerous feeling. we will osit dangerous feeling. we will posit the _ dangerous feeling. we will posit the conversation - dangerous feeling. we will posit the conversation just | dangerous feeling. we will. posit the conversation just for a moment. religion and artificial intelligence might sound like an unlikely
8:45 pm
8:46 pm
welcome back to ai decoded. what do you get when you take 400,000 detailed images at the vatican, and mix in some ai technology? the answer — an digital replica, or digital twin, of the famous st peter's basilica. we're going to have a report from marc cieslak injust a minute. but first, priya, you've seen this idea of digital twinning before, haven't you? tell us more about it. we just need to think about this as anything in the physical world creating a digital twin of that piece in the physical world, whether it is a building and its operations, an engine for
8:47 pm
aircraft, or the human body. creating a digital replica of that and taking enough data so that and taking enough data so that we can then create essentially what looks like a simulation. we can simulate how that machine might work, we can start to calculate equations, invent new therapies. in this case, and what is absolutely fascinating, it is a very different version of a digital twin i've been looking at from the supply chain of the human body. we can look at where maintenance needs to occur in a very old building, where it needs upkeep. it is potentially sporting also a lovely new things that we haven't actually seen before. these 400,000 images at the vatican over a period of three weeks — drones, cameras and lasers and ai technology were used to make more than 400,000 detailed images to create exact digital replica of the exterior and interior of the famous st peter's basilica.
8:48 pm
religion and artificial intelligence might sound like an unlikely pairing. here at the vatican, headquarters of the catholic church, pope francis and the vatican's own a! experts have been exploring the ethical use of the tech for some years now. but a new initiative will see a! used to digitally preserve one of its most significant locations. to see what it is, i'm making thejourney from the heart of rome to the sovereign nation, the italian capital surrounds, the vatican city. i'm now leaving italy. as i step over this line, i'm entering a completely different country. entry into the vatican city doesn't require a visa or passport. visitors can simply walk in. and six days a week, that's exactly what pilgrims and tourists alike do in huge numbers. a state within a state, the world's smallest country, the vatican city — home to the planet's largest church
8:49 pm
by capacity, capable of accommodating 60,000 people, st peter's basilica. an architectural masterpiece. ssome of history's greatest artists contributed to its construction. michelangelo designed its i36—metre dome, one of the tallest in the world. bernini created the baldacchino, the ornate bronze canopy above saint peter's tomb. it's the tomb that gave this church its name, believed to be the burial site of saint peter, one of the 12 apostles ofjesus and the first pope of the catholic church. something like 50,000 people visit saint peter's basilica every single day. big numbers. but there are 1.3 billion catholic people in the world, many of whom will never get the opportunity to visit this, the most important church in the catholic world.
8:50 pm
and that is where lots and lots and lots of photographs, with the help of ai, comes in. every 25 years, the catholic church celebrates a year of forgiveness and spiritual renewal known as a jubilee. the next one is in 2025. a huge restorationjob is under way here in preparation. part of those preparations involve digitally preserving st peter's. the vatican has partnered with tech giant microsoft and a french company, econem, which specialises in this kind of work. combined, they've created a virtual twin of the entire church, created by photographing every part of its interior and exterior. we collected approximately 500,000 images using cameras and drones. we then processed them with photogrammetry softwares, and the features were extracted to create the 3d environment and the 3d
8:51 pm
aspect of the monuments. they opened the basilica for us from 7pm to midnight. so, we were working there all night long, maybe 12 evenings. the result is a 3d model that can be explored in minute detail. the project is called the people's basilica. the digital twin of the basilica will be available online, allowing people worldwide to explore its art and architecture. one interesting aspect of this project is that by exploring st peter's basilica virtually, the viewer can get up close and personal with details of the church that would be almost impossible to see in the real world. but i have to say, the real world experience takes some beating. what was great is that we first went on site and we were close to the mosaics. we were everywhere in the basilica, and we could see the missing tiles, the cracks that were first identified by
8:52 pm
the architects there. this kind of detail is vital to the basilica's upkeep, and has helped identify damage that requires attention from the team renovating st peter's. but why is a! an important part of this process? brad smith is president of microsoft, and had previously liaised with the vatican on its ai and ethics work. in some ways, it's a marriage of two different technologies. one is what we're familiar with, a camera, you know, with very high resolution photography. but it really takes alto knit all of that together. without a! enhanced algorithms and tools, it would not have been possible to process this amount of data. but a! uses a lot of energy. and with so much concern around the environmental impact of artificial intelligence, is this the right technology to employ in the preservation of historically and culturally significant locations? i think we have to recognise
8:53 pm
that al is one of many things that uses electricity, and we in the tech sector need to both acknowledge and embrace that need, and we need to be committed, as we are, to making data centres become more efficient so they use less electricity. we need to be committed, as we are, to investing to bring online additional sources of electricity. we need to invest in additional sources of carbon free energy for electricity. while the vatican seems happy to employ al to help preserve one of its most significant sites, how does the church feel about the effect of artificial intelligence on the wider world? cardinal mario gambetti is overseeing this entire project. translation: artificial intelligence is like - a tool given to humanity to better understand reality. it's like a language,
8:54 pm
but it also has potential to bring people closer to history, art and spirituality. like many tools that have helped humanity grow in understanding and allowed society to develop. the people's basilica is online now. virtual visitors will be able to discover for themselves if that spirituality translates into a digital experience. mark cieslak, bbc news. i wonder what michelangelo would think of that. i think you have met the pope's al's quy- you have met the pope's al's iu . you have met the pope's al's i u _ ., . ., ., , , guy. the vatican had been very ethical in the _ guy. the vatican had been very ethical in the guidance - guy. the vatican had been very ethical in the guidance for- guy. the vatican had been very ethical in the guidance for al. l ethical in the guidance for al. i think the pope talked about the use — i think the pope talked about the use of ai in his 2020 speech _ the use of ai in his 2020 speech. have you seen other examples of the sort of
8:55 pm
technology in your work? not my work personally _ technology in your work? not my work personally but _ technology in your work? not my work personally but i _ technology in your work? not my work personally but i have - technology in your work? not my work personally but i have seen i work personally but i have seen many other people from other companies using this technology for industrial engineering applications, motor engines, aircraft, stuff like this. it aircraft, stuff like this. if you could have a digital twin of anything, what would it be? probably the human body so we can test medicines more efficiently.— can test medicines more efficientl. ., , , , efficiently. that is probably down the — efficiently. that is probably down the track _ efficiently. that is probably| down the track somewhere. efficiently. that is probably i down the track somewhere. ai decoded will have an episide on that coming soon and i don't want — that coming soon and i don't want to— that coming soon and i don't want to ruin it!— want to ruin it! corner, that compendium _ want to ruin it! corner, that compendium and _ want to ruin it! corner, that compendium and a - want to ruin it! corner, that compendium and a number| want to ruin it! corner, that l compendium and a number of want to ruin it! corner, that - compendium and a number of your colleagues have written is a fascinating read. thank you, mouth, really good to talk to you. that's it, we are out of time. we will do this again same time next week.
8:56 pm
lots more to come on in the context. we will be talking to our panellists in the next hour about a number of topics, including what is going on in the us and how it impacts the rest of the world. stay with us here on bbc news. inafew in a few minutes' time we are expecting to hear from the chancellor, rachel reeves, and also from the governor of the bank of england, andrew bailey. they are about to make speeches about the economy at mansion housein about the economy at mansion house in the city of london. let's try and tear up what we are going to expect to hear from them. let's start with the governor of the bank of england. what are we expecting?
8:57 pm
the context here is that this is the mansion house speeches, a vital part of the financial calendar, where britain winds top financiers turn out and give a hearing to both the chancellor and the bank of england governor about their strategic priorities for the year. we have had some advanced text of what they are just about to say about this gathering, and certainly at the bank of england's governor words have caught the imagination in terms of the news websites and front pages. it is his words, he is pretty shy normally talking about bricks, even when you point to a bank of england report about the impact on trade, for example. but in the speech he is expected to say that there have been consequences from brexit in terms of a weaker
8:58 pm
economy, and in particular a week of goods trade. but more than that he is also going to suggest that the uk should welcome a closer economic relationship, should we build is relationship with the eu, which is pretty strong language for the government of the bank of england. i don't think you will see this as a political intervention, but as a statement of the economic reality. certainly we are getting pushback from the treasury. remember, the labour government have been quite cautious on this issue in terms of how enthusiastic they have wanted to sound about sort of ripping up, or changing in some way the eu—uk post—brexit trade deal. but there are some areas where they want to get some winds, get a closer relationship with less friction and trade barriers. certainly when these words emerged, the fact that the bank of england governor is going to make this
8:59 pm
point, the treasury confirmed they were also interested in a closer economic relationship, pointing out the fact that rachel reeves will be the first uk finance minister to attend a euro zone ministerial meeting of finance ministers next month. i think that is the symbol of a closer relationship. those conversations haven't really got going, they are expected to get going in the new year. this is a sensitive time, because at this moment we have had donald trump as president elect. there has been a particularfocus trump as president elect. there has been a particular focus on europe, which saw a drop in the past has said is ripping the us off in terms of car exports and the like. this is interesting because we talk to advisers to the past trump administration, they have always said we look
9:00 pm
two we would love to do a deal with the uk, but the uk has got to choose whether there was to be close to the us or the eu. right now as we await the u s trump administration, with the stated aim of the uk government getting closer to europe, does that in some way change? to the uk might have a seidu with the us to avoid trump's tariff. all of that is up for grabs, so very interesting timing, this intervention from the government of the bank of england. government of the bank of enland. ~ government of the bank of england-— government of the bank of enland.~ , ,., england. we will pick up on some of— england. we will pick up on some of those _ england. we will pick up on some of those issues - england. we will pick up on some of those issues you i england. we will pick up on - some of those issues you raised there. just a broader view from what you expect to hear from the chancellor. there was a critique of their budget that it did not say enough about growth. it was
10 Views
IN COLLECTIONS
BBC News Television Archive Television Archive News Search ServiceUploaded by TV Archive on