perfect. and future goals? what about next door? ezra collective, wembley stadium. put it this way, it is far beyond our wildest dreams, so why put a cap on what can happen? but for now, i'm just trying to do our best tonight and see where we end up, you know what i mean? colin paterson, bbc news, wembley arena. if you want to continue watching the bbc news at ten, please turn over to bbc one or you can watch on iplayer. next, it's newsnight. a police investigation into a journalist's social media post reignites the great british free speech debate.

the force involved say they act without fear or favour. critics claim it's an orwellian nightmare. which is it? and high—profile users and high—profile users of elon musk�*s x are leaving of elon musk�*s x are leaving the platform and signing the platform and signing up with rival bluesky. up with rival bluesky. we'll speak to a radio presenter we'll speak to a radio presenter who's joined the so—called "x—odus." who's joined the so—called "x—odus." on the site formerly known welcome to newsnight, welcome to newsnight, the home of interviews and insights. the home of interviews and insights. the friday night trio with us the friday night trio with us throughout: journalist throughout: journalist and award—winning podcaster and award—winning podcaster zeng tsjeng, zeng tsjeng, andy bell, political andy bell, political editor of five news, editor of five news, and the conservative strategist — and the conservative strategist — to coin a transatlantic to coin a transatlantic phrase — salma shah. phrase — salma shah. a controversy�*s been raging a controversy�*s been raging

on the site formerly known as twitter among those who haven't left — about a tweet sent by the journalist allison pearson that prompted a visit from

by the journalist allison pearson that promptec —— isit from by the journalist allison pearson that promptec —— hate 'om by the journalist allison pearson that promptec —— hate incident incident which —— hate incident which gets discussed now and then. this is an incident where you can keep a _ this is an incident where you can keep a log — this is an incident where you can keep a log of noncriminal, so something that is not potentially going _ something that is not potentially going to — something that is not potentially going to lead to violence but it will be — going to lead to violence but it will be logged, we have heard of stories_ will be logged, we have heard of stories today that schoolchildren have been put on this list and it is being _ have been put on this list and it is being monitored, and stories like this get— being monitored, and stories like this get conflated and there is a political— this get conflated and there is a political imperative to make sure there _ political imperative to make sure there are — political imperative to make sure there are clear facts out there in there are clear facts out there in the public— there are clear facts out there in the public sphere because we have already— the public sphere because we have already got criticisms of so—called two tier— already got criticisms of so—called two tier policing and criticisms of police _ two tier policing and criticisms of police being able to address other crimes, _ police being able to address other crimes, so— police being able to address other crimes, so it will make people angry, — crimes, so it will make people angry, i— crimes, so it will make people angry, i think. crimes, so it will make people angry. i think-— crimes, so it will make people angry, ithink. crimes, so it will make people an: , ithink. ., ~ , angry, i think. zeng, elon musk gets involved in a — angry, i think. zeng, elon musk gets involved in a lot _ angry, i think. zeng, elon musk gets involved in a lot of _ angry, i think. zeng, elon musk gets involved in a lot of things _ angry, i think. zeng, elon musk gets involved in a lot of things in - involved in a lot of things in british politics and he also got involved in this.— british politics and he also got involved in this. some strange reason he _ involved in this. some strange reason he loves _ involved in this. some strange reason he loves to _ involved in this. some strange reason he loves to put - involved in this. some strange reason he loves to put his - involved in this. some strange | reason he loves to put his head involved in this. some strange - reason he loves to put his head into uk political— reason he loves to put his head into uk political issues _ reason he loves to put his head into uk political issues these _ reason he loves to put his head into uk political issues these days - reason he loves to put his head into uk political issues these days and l uk political issues these days and he basically— uk political issues these days and he basically said _ uk political issues these days and he basically said it _ uk political issues these days and he basically said it was _ uk political issues these days and he basically said it was a - he basically said it was a concerning _

he basically said it was a concerning issue, and i he basically said it was a | concerning issue, and he he basically said it was a - concerning issue, and he said it he basically said it was a _ concerning issue, and he said it was a free _ concerning issue, and he said it was a free speech — concerning issue, and he said it was a free speech issue _ concerning issue, and he said it was a free speech issue as _ concerning issue, and he said it was a free speech issue as well. - a free speech issue as well. richard, _ a free speech issue as well. richard, why— a free speech issue as well. richard, why have - a free speech issue as well. richard, why have you - a free speech issue as well. j richard, why have you been so exercised about this? do richard, why have you been so exercised about this?- richard, why have you been so exercised about this? do we live in the democracy _ exercised about this? do we live in the democracy of _ exercised about this? do we live in the democracy of the _ exercised about this? do we live in the democracy of the uk? - exercised about this? do we live in the democracy of the uk? 0r- exercised about this? do we live in| the democracy of the uk? or north korea? this is orwellian. allison pearson is a well—known journalist, and the police knocked on the door and the police knocked on the door and they say, you are being investigated for a tweet, we will not say what they did, they state is a non—crime eight incident and they have now changed their mind on that, they will not say who the accuser is, it is a victim, they would not say what happens next, how long the investigation goes on, and allison pearson, is left frankly terrified and scared, and this is happening to at least... �* ,., and scared, and this is happening to at least... . ., , at least... allison pearson is scared? _ at least. .. allison pearson is scared? l— at least... allison pearson is scared? i have _ at least... allison pearson is scared? i have spoken - at least... allison pearson is scared? i have spoken to - at least... allison pearson is| scared? i have spoken to her at least... allison pearson is . scared? i have spoken to her on at least... allison pearson is - scared? i have spoken to her on the wa here, scared? i have spoken to her on the way here. and _ scared? i have spoken to her on the way here, and this _ scared? i have spoken to her on the way here, and this is _ scared? i have spoken to her on the way here, and this is generally - way here, and this is generally scary because this could appear on her criminal record, and the police in essex, in a sense they have panicked, they have said, it is not

a non—crime eight incident, it is a criminal investigation, and they have now launched a gold probe which they normally reserved for incidents of murder, terrorism, but now it is a gold probe, let me tell you what is going on, essex police have a woeful track record of sorting out actual crimes, theft, knife crime, murder, rape, so they are covering up murder, rape, so they are covering up by murder, rape, so they are covering up by issuing all sorts of non—hate incidents and now this has happened, and this is leading to something very serious, a complete collapse of confidence injustice, in policing, and we all make mistakes, and what the chief constable of essex police should now do is show courageous leadership and say, i'm so sorry, we have got this badly wrong, we apologise-— have got this badly wrong, we apologise-_ if- have got this badly wrong, we - apologise._ if he doesn't apologise. and resign? if he doesn't

do that, then _ apologise. and resign? if he doesn't do that, then frankly, _ apologise. and resign? if he doesn't do that, then frankly, he _ do that, then frankly, he is bringing the essex police force into disrepute, bringing policing in the uk into disrepute, and the police and crime commissioner should force him out and fire him.— him out and fire him. essex police say reports _ him out and fire him. essex police say reports of _ him out and fire him. essex police say reports of crime _ him out and fire him. essex police say reports of crime in _ him out and fire him. essex police say reports of crime in their- him out and fire him. essex police say reports of crime in their patch | say reports of crime in their patch have gone down by 9000 in their area by the last year. have gone down by 9000 in their area by the last year-— by the last year. there's a difference _ by the last year. there's a difference between - by the last year. there's a difference between a - by the last year. there's a i difference between a report by the last year. there's a - difference between a report of by the last year. there's a _ difference between a report of crime and actually solving a crime, and the british people are interested in this crimes being solved and people being guilty and having sentences, thatis being guilty and having sentences, that is what citizens want, not nonsense, please force covering up a woeful track record —— not a police force covering up. irate woeful track record -- not a police force covering up.— force covering up. we do have limits on free speech _ force covering up. we do have limits on free speech in this _ force covering up. we do have limits on free speech in this country. - force covering up. we do have limits on free speech in this country. you | on free speech in this country. you cannot incite _ on free speech in this country. tj’f7l. cannot incite hatred or violence, yes, and racism.— yes, and racism. this should be investigated? _ yes, and racism. this should be investigated? this _ yes, and racism. this should be investigated? this law has - yes, and racism. this should be i investigated? this law has become totally confused _

investigated? this law has become totally confused and _ investigated? this law has become totally confused and nobody - totally confused and nobody understands... totally confused and nobody understands. . ._ totally confused and nobody understands... ., ., ., understands... you are conflating it toniaht. understands... you are conflating it tonight. no. _ understands... you are conflating it tonight- no. l'm — understands... you are conflating it tonight. no, i'm saying, _ understands. .. you are conflating it tonight. no, i'm saying, this- tonight. no, i'm saying, this law should be _ tonight. no, i'm saying, this law should be completely _ tonight. no, i'm saying, this law should be completely scrapped, | tonight. no, i'm saying, this law. should be completely scrapped, as are the conservatives, because no one understands what it means, and we have already got laws that prevent incitement to violence and racism, so we do not need the law, scrap it. racism, so we do not need the law, scra it. ., , racism, so we do not need the law, scra it. . , ., , racism, so we do not need the law, scra it. . , . , , , scrap it. that is what she is being investigated _ scrap it. that is what she is being investigated under. _ scrap it. that is what she is being investigated under. the - scrap it. that is what she is being investigated under. the police i investigated under. the police themselves are _ investigated under. the police| themselves are confused, they say cheese being investigated for one thing and then they say they are investigating herfor a thing and then they say they are investigating her for a criminal act and then they align it with terrorism —— they say she is being investigated. terrorism -- they say she is being investigated-— investigated. they have not aligned it with terrorism. _ investigated. they have not aligned it with terrorism. they _ investigated. they have not aligned it with terrorism. they have - it with terrorism. they have launched — it with terrorism. they have launched a _ it with terrorism. they have launched a gold _ it with terrorism. they have launched a gold probe. - it with terrorism. they have launched a gold probe. this it with terrorism. they have - launched a gold probe. this means they are panicking, the chief constable does not know what to do, he is under massive pressure and he is saying, how can we dig our way under —— out of this? the is saying, how can we dig our way under -- out of this?— is saying, how can we dig our way under -- out of this? the police did not to to under -- out of this? the police did not go to charge — under -- out of this? the police did not go to charge her _ under -- out of this? the police did not go to charge her and _ under -- out of this? the police did not go to charge her and take - under -- out of this? the police did | not go to charge her and take away, but they went to have a chat to

arrange a time to talk to her. teeth? arrange a time to talk to her. why not rinu arrange a time to talk to her. why not ring her up? _ arrange a time to talk to her. why not ring her up? maybe she - arrange a time to talk to her. why not ring her up? maybe she did i arrange a time to talk to her. whyl not ring her up? maybe she did not answer the phone. _ not ring her up? maybe she did not answer the phone. it _ not ring her up? maybe she did not answer the phone. it is _ not ring her up? maybe she did not answer the phone. it is very - answer the phone. it is very scary to net a answer the phone. it is very scary to get a knock — answer the phone. it is very scary to get a knock on _ answer the phone. it is very scary to get a knock on the _ answer the phone. it is very scary to get a knock on the door - answer the phone. it is very scary to get a knock on the door from l answer the phone. it is very scary l to get a knock on the door from the police on a sunday morning, frankly, and then say. police on a sunday morning, frankly, and then say-— and then say. they say they acted very politely _ and then say. they say they acted very politely with _ and then say. they say they acted very politely with her. _ and then say. they say they acted very politely with her. the - very politely with her. the 20-something _ very politely with her. the 20-something police - very politely with her. tie: 20—something police officers very politely with her. tte: 20—something police officers did very politely with her. tt9: 20—something police officers did not know what they were therefore and they were told what to do, by their work bosses who clearly do not believe in free speech, and when she gave them a piece of her mind, that this was remembered sunday, when hundreds of thousands of british citizens died so we could enjoy freedom of expression and live in a democracy, this actually goes to the heart of what we are as a country, and clearly the chief constable of essex police force has a very different view of the country we are living in to tens of millions of british citizens.— living in to tens of millions of british citizens. essex police say now that allison _ british citizens. essex police say now that allison pearson - british citizens. essex police say now that allison pearson is - british citizens. essex police say| now that allison pearson is being investigated for a potential

criminal offence. let me make this point, we are then talking about the non—crime hate incidents, and the reason the latter exists is because of the stephen lawrence inquiry, which said that the police have to have a way of monitoring patterns of behaviour that are not criminal yet. so what you do instead? it behaviour that are not criminal yet. so what you do instead?— so what you do instead? if you cannot do _ so what you do instead? if you cannot do a job _ so what you do instead? if you cannot do a job properly, - so what you do instead? if you cannot do a job properly, do i so what you do instead? if you - cannot do a job properly, do not do it at all, they clearly cannot do it properly and they have got desperately confused, 70 people are being investigated every single day under this, and anybody can complain, and they say that they are a victim. :, ~ complain, and they say that they are a victim. :, ,, i. complain, and they say that they are a victim. :, ~' i. , complain, and they say that they are a victim. :, ,, i. , : essex police told us in a statement: �*we police without fear or favour and that's why we respond to alleged offences which are reported to us by members of the public. "essex police cuts crimes. "there were over 9000 fewer reported offences in the last year and 20,000 fewer than five years ago."

salma, imagine you are in the home office, whose side do you take? this is difficult office, whose side do you take? “tt 3 is difficult because the prime minister himself has come out, having been a director of public prosecutions, he has weighed up these cases previously, and there is always a sense that you need to react to something that is happening, because the detail of any given case is never really fully explained and understood, and the media cycle takes over, and so the first thing i would do is to think about taking a step back and understanding from essex police what has happened, and it is not right for the home secretary to intervene because this is not a matterfor whitehall, but look at the law and think about how it is implemented because as i say, there is a political imperative to get this right, and people are annoyed and if you have this conflation we have these non—hate crime incidents and you do not understand why the monitoring is happening or not happening effectively, then the home secretary should think about stepping in, but on the legislation side. if

stepping in, but on the legislation side. :, side. if we look at the daily telegraph _ side. if we look at the daily telegraph tomorrow, - side. if we look at the daily telegraph tomorrow, they l side. if we look at the daily - telegraph tomorrow, they have a good new light on this, kemi badenoch, the new conservative leader, is done her first interview with them and she basically says these non—crime hate incidents, the law around free speech, needs to be reviewed, so this is becoming a political hot potato to use a dreadful cliche. quite a smart manoeuvre of her to take the _ quite a smart manoeuvre of her to take the issue up because it is clearly— take the issue up because it is clearly an— take the issue up because it is clearly an area where she can set up a dividing _ clearly an area where she can set up a dividing line with the labour government and keir starmer, and i do think— government and keir starmer, and i do think there's a real issue which is people — do think there's a real issue which is people have got to be able to express— is people have got to be able to express opinions which may be people do not _ express opinions which may be people do not like _ express opinions which may be people do not like and which are not fashionable, but you have got to be able to— fashionable, but you have got to be able to work out where the line is between — able to work out where the line is between that and something that is potentially criminal and that has been _ potentially criminal and that has been muddied, after southport, and what happened there, that contributed, and it is a bit confused _ contributed, and it is a bit confused and i think everyone has a responsibility to sort this out and settle _ responsibility to sort this out and settle this — responsibility to sort this out and settle this down and make it clear where _ settle this down and make it clear where the — settle this down and make it clear where the line is. the government and previous _ where the line is. the government and previous governments - where the line is. the government and previous governments have i where the line is. the government i and previous governments have tried to do this because we have both

reported on priti patel as home secretary, and suella braverman, changing the guidelines about how these non—crime hate incidents worked, and they have tried. thea;r worked, and they have tried. they have not worked, and they have tried. they have got to _ worked, and they have tried. they have got to keep _ worked, and they have tried. they have got to keep trying because we have got to keep trying because we have seen— have got to keep trying because we have seen in the last few weeks after— have seen in the last few weeks after what happened in southport, this could — after what happened in southport, this could potentially be very dangerous and can feed into public perceptions about two tier policing and we _ perceptions about two tier policing and we do — perceptions about two tier policing and we do not want people to start losing _ and we do not want people to start losing confidence in the police. can i make losing confidence in the