this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines for you at the top of the hour, which is straight after this programme. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. iran's islamic government is under enormous pressure — both in its role as regional power confronting israel, and in terms of its internal stability. on the home front, there is no sign of a let—up in the confrontation between the iranian internal security apparatus, and those women in the country demanding life and freedom, and an end to what some un officials have termed "gender apartheid". my guest today is massoumeh ebtekar, a former vice

president in iran for women and family affairs. amid social and economic unrest, is today's iranian leadership in danger of losing its grip? massoumeh ebtekar, in tehran, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. madam ebtekar, as a former vice president for women in iran, are you ashamed of what the iranian state is doing to your country's women today?

well, first of all, you painted a very grim picture of my country, as many western media — they've been doing that for years and years now about iran. we do have challenges, and we had a major challenge, in terms of dealing with our young people and particularly our women a couple of years ago. and that was due to the issue of the hijab, and the fact that our younger generation has questions about their lifestyle, about their independence, about their freedom to choose their lifestyle.

but things are improving. we've had a presidential election, and president pezeshkian, who is an academician, he's a surgeon, he's a very forward—looking person, he's been elected. and he has promised to bring about change in many different areas. yeah, you say things are changing and giving me the positive case — but surely, if you are particularly a young iranian woman today, you are in grave danger of falling foul of the extremely heavy—handed morality police. let us look at one particular case from just a few days ago, that of ahoo daryaei. now she, as you know, was on the campus of tehran�*s islamic azad university. her supporters say that she was approached by the morality police — they were violent with her, they tried to rip at her clothing, to pull her clothing because they said that she was "not properly displaying hijab". she was so angered by this, she ripped her clothes off, down to her underwear. she was then, quote—unquote, "disappeared" by the police. isn't this the reality for many young women in iran today? no, this — you can't make a generalisation. we had a case, that case

has been under scrutiny by a lot of women activists and by the civil society, they're following the issue. but you can't make a generalisation out of that case. you have many similar cases in even the so—called liberal societies in europe. well, with respect, madam iftikhar, we don't have cases where women are approached by the police who use violent tactics, claiming that they are "not properly dressed" in western societies. yeah, we have those challenges, as i explained, and that was — one of the promises that the president brought about was to alleviate some of those pressures. and he has been, to a great extent, successful. i think that the situation is changing, is improving. and i think that there's a lot of hope now, because we have

more and more women in the government. we have a woman appointed as a minister, we have several vice presidents appointed. so, the social situation is gradually — it's not that everything is resolved, it's not... no, ok, but i mean, isn't... but i mean, it's gradually improving, and you see a lot of violence on behalf of the police in europe today against protesters for being anti—semitic. whoever is protesting against the illegal occupation of palestine by the zionist regime and the ongoing genocide is now labelled as an anti—semite and is attacked, and you see the police... yeah, i don't want to address those allegations you've just made about what is happening elsewhere. this is a very important interview to discuss what's happening inside your own country. and, as you are a former vice president for women's affairs... i'm just comparing.

..i think it is reasonable that we push you on what is actually happening, and what has happened over the past two years and more since the killing in police custody of mahsa amini. because if you look at the data collected by amnesty international, they have concluded, quote, "victims, survivors, and their relatives continue to be denied truth, justice, and reparation for crimes under international law in the two years since mahsa amini's killing" and the uprising of particularly women inside your country. amnesty go on to say that, "for the past two years, the authorities have been waging a propaganda campaign of denial and distortion to conceal evidence of their state crimes and their attempts to intimidate survivors�* and victims�* families". is that not what you are doing with me today? listen, we have — i personally have criticised a lot of the policies. i personally have stood firmly in criticising a lot of the policies that were taken

during the previous years. i criticised the actions of the morality police. and i think that one of the reasons why dr pezeshkian was elected by a majority of iranian voters, those who were eligible to vote, 50% of them voted in this recent election and a majority voted for change. one of those reasons was that we have change, in many of these policies and many of these different dimensions. we have different factions in iran. everyone does not agree with the policies that, for example, the morality police has put forward in these years. there are different political viewpoints on these issues. so, it's not that these policies are being pursued and there's no criticism,

there's no appeasement... no, understood, if i may — you make a very interesting point, but isn't one thing we are seeing in iran today that the new president, mr pezeshkian, as you say, is defined within iranian politics as something of a moderate, certainly a man who's expressed his own opinion that the morality police should, quote—unquote, "no longer bother women so publicly over this issue of how they wear the hijab," or the headscarf. he has said that, yes, but the reality on the ground is that the morality police don't seem to be listening to their own new president. and indeed, what we've seen in the last couple of months is the final implementation, the passage through all of its legislative phases of a new so—called "chastity and hijab law", which now mandate the state to impose a ten—year penalty, a ten—year imprisonment on women who violate the hijab law.

well, first of all, the law has not been yet implemented. the president has asked for a revision of this law, the president has — the government has officially asked the parliament to revise the law. so, it's not yet implemented at all. the president and the current government do not agree, do not go along with the lines of this law. there's a lot of criticism in the media, in the civil society. so, this is not something that's finished. and, of course, as long as this president and this government is in place, i don't think that this law will be implemented. i hope that the different actions — which is civil society, particularly — the women activists are taking, will prevent this law from being implemented... well, that's fascinating.

and also, there's a lot of hope, there's a lot of hope that things will improve — have improved in these recent months, and will continue to improve, not only in terms of the issue of the hijab and the covering, but also in terms of gender equity, in terms of the role of women. in different aspects of society, iranian women are very now well—educated, in terms of academic education, in terms of different fields, different skills. you see many women, more than 30% of our physicians, medical doctors are women now in iran. if i may interrupt forjust a moment, madam ebtekar, if i am understanding... let me finish what i'm trying to say. no, but you're saying different things, which are fascinating, i just want to start with this basic question to you. if i'm understanding you correctly, you seem to be actually expressing support for the woman's movement in iran, which is insisting

that it will no longer accept what many iranians call, quote—unquote, "gender apartheid". are you on their side? this, to use this word, gender apartheid — you have to look back and see what it means. in a country where women have been in the government, women have been in the academic sphere, women have been in the social sphere, they have economic freedoms, they are a very vocal part of the media where we see women everywhere — it's not correct to use the word "gender apartheid". i think that we need to move towards more equity on different areas. yes, we need to work and we have programmes. when i was the vice president, we had a very active programme being implemented under the theme of gender equity

in different spheres such as education, such as health, such as employment, and we had different programmes with different ministries to improve the status of women in all these different areas. and iranian women are moving ahead, and it's very difficult to stop them, in this regard. they've been moving in sports, you see that women in international games, they're getting more and more medals. they're advancing again... let me ask you a question, if i may. let's take the young women of iran today — so many of them are either taking to the streets, or, if they're too scared to take to the streets because of repression, they are certainly, in their private lives and online, expressing support for this uprising we've seen

over the past two years. just be clear with me, do you support it? the uprising has — that was a couple of months in, about two years ago. now, the situation has changed considerably... with respect, that's because women and men have been killed. many hundreds have been locked up. there is a great fear now of taking to the streets in that way — but that doesn't mean the sentiment has changed. it does mean the sentiment has changed, because we've had elections, we've had three nationwide elections in this country. and, well, initially there was a lot of — i think a lot of the protesters, or those who were criticising the government, they decided not to take part in these elections.

but gradually, as dr pezeshkian was approved by the guardians council and as the reformist parties came into the scene, gradually more and more, people decided to take part in these elections. these elections have changed the general social and political atmosphere in iran. all right, let's talk about that, let's talk about the atmosphere, as you put it. and actually, let me start with a thought about geopolitics. i mean, you've made it clear you're a supporter of president pezeshkian — how do you feel that pezeshkian is coping with the current situation, in which israel is applying massive asymmetric force against iran's allies/proxy forces in gaza, hamas, in lebanon, hezbollah, in yemen, the houthis, in syria as well? it looks to many people

outside iran as though iran is under enormous pressure, and pezeshkian doesn't really know how to handle it. i think that dr pezeshkian, our president, has a well—versed team, both in terms of foreign diplomacy but also in terms of the economic challenges, the sanctions that are being implemented against our country. i think that there is a strong team now in place, and they're working to be able to improve the economic situation in the country. they're working to be able to neutralise the effect of the sanctions, the unilateral illegal sanctions against our country, which have been waged against our economy now for decades... but if i may, pezeshkian came to power saying he would do all in his power to alleviate the pressure of sanctions. what we see, with the election of donald trump in the united states, his return to power injanuary,

is that he, it seems, is determined to reimpose what he calls, quote—unquote, "maximum pressure and maximum sanctions on iran", which will stop iran's oil exports in their tracks. so, you've got a difficult economic situation now — it seems it's about to get much worse. we have a difficult economic situation, that's true. but there are also hopes, in terms of the diplomatic efforts that we've had with our neighbours, improving our economic and political relationships with our neighbours. that has been quite helpful. iran is now part of important regional and international alliances, such as the brics, and we hope that there would be new openings for iran.

it's not yet clear how the president—elect will deal with iran, president—elect trump, and he's spoken about the need for peace — that is what he claims — he claims that he's not a president that wants to wage wars. this is hopeful, and we hope that keeping our dignity, considering the fact that the world knows that iran has the necessary means to defend itself, we hope that we could move along with negotiations, maybe a newjcpoa deal, keeping iran's stance, dignity, the right of the iranian nation to have access to means of defence, to nuclear technologies. these are issues which iran has been negotiating for many years now... with respect to how iran — hang on, again, let me ask a question — you just said you have hopes that president pezeshkian could oversee a renewal of thejcpoa — that is the nuclear agreement with the western powers, including the united states. donald trump is adamant that he won't go into that deal.

but he also is the guy who points out that, as long as iran officially declares the united states to be "the great satan", then iran has to be regarded as a dangerous enemy. so, are you saying to me that president pezeshkian might move away from that mindset in iran which depicts america as the great satan? i'm saying that the important point is that we have to wait and see in practice what policy president—elect trump will follow. i think that it's possible

that they will engage in a newjcpoa deal with different terms. but of course, each party has to have its own share of the deal, and, well, we look forward to the possibility of negotiations on the basis of respect, not on the basis of maximum pressure. because i think that, president—elect trump and his team, they realise that the maximum pressure policy had no avail. there was no ultimate reason to continue the maximum pressure policy after they saw that iran is resisting, and there's no result that they expected, they intended. madam ebtekar... so, i think that there might be a change, i think that there might be a change in the policy in the second term that president trump has... i have to say — yeah, forgive me for the interruption, i have to say i find this conversation with you very interesting because i think it's fair to say, even

i have to say — yeah, forgive me for the interruption, i have to say i find this conversation with you very interesting because i think it's fair to say, even in the course of this interview, you've revealed yourself to be still, as you've long been a relative, quote—unquote, "moderate" within the iranian political scene. so, in that spirit, and given your own history — because let us not forget, you, as a student leader, were one of the most high—profile students involved in the occupation of the us embassy back in 1979 and 1980, you became a spokesman for those radical students who held us diplomats... spokeswoman. mmm? spokeswoman. yes, and the point was you justified the violation of international law, which that occupation and holding hostage diplomats represented. would it, in the spirit that you are presenting to me

of change, would it be time for you to apologise for that? the taking of the american embassy in 1979 was done by about 400 students from tehran. and actually, i didn't take part in that initial takeover — i joined the students about three days later. but the students did that in response to the admission of the deposed shah and the possibility of a second coup d'etat in iran. we have a history of foreign intervention in our country, and that sets the stage for the fact that the students believed that this might be repeated again. so, they took action in respect of the fact that we had a coup d'etat agains tour nation. i do not doubt you had your reasons, ijust wonder whether, in your desire

to see change, whether... exactly, but after those years, after those initial years, iran has emerged as a very strong country in the face of all the sanctions, in the face of all the pressures. iran has changed during all those years to emerge as an independent and effective, effective player in this region. and, for many instances, iran has tried to alleviate those tensions, has tried to work with the world. we agreed and entered — thejcpoa was just one instance — iran entered thejcpoa and negotiated with all the different partners, including the americans, and the americans actually pulled out of the jcpoa. all right, let me end, if i may, madame ebtekar, we are almost out of time. i want to end with the words of taghi rahmani, the husband

of the nobel peace prize laureate, narges mohammadi, who, as you know, is still imprisoned inside iran for her political activities. he says this — he said it to me in a recent interview — he said, "the regime, the islamic regime, cannot continue. it is in crisis. i believe the islamic republic is living on borrowed time because it has no successful development plan for iran." do you think he could just be right? i think that, as i mentioned, many of those who were imprisoned for political reasons have been released recently. many women and men have been released recently due to the different follow—up actions of the government and president pezeshkian. many of the university professors who were taken out of the universities previously,

they've returned back. many of the students have returned back. so, there's a lot of reasons for optimism and hope in iran. let's let that be the last word. massoumeh ebtekar, i thank you very much forjoining me from tehran. thank you. thank you as well. hello. this cold spell of weather does look set to last for another few days, before what could be quite a dramatic change over the weekend. more on that in a moment. in the short term, for the day ahead, after a frosty and icy start, we will see quite

a lot of sunshine. still some wintry showers and a cold northerly wind, that wind coming all the way from the arctic, ushering in further wintry showers, particularly in those spots exposed to the wind. so, many places, actually, after that frosty icy start having a decent day with quite a lot of sunshine. but eastern england will see some showers, a mix of rain, sleet and snow. a few for wales, the south—west of england, some wintry showers for northern ireland and frequent snow showers continuing in the north of scotland. further accumulations of snow here with some pretty brisk winds, so temperatures at best — north to south — 2—8 degrees. factor in the strength of the wind, it is going to feel colder than that, and temperatures certainly dropping away during the night. another cold night. still some wintry showers, but i think they'll tend to clear away from the east coast. a few more into these western parts, particularly in the north—west of scotland.

and by the end of the night, you may have noticed there some rain and perhaps some snow pushing towards the far south—west of england, in association with this area of low pressure. now, the centre of this low is set to stay away to the south of us, but it may just get close enough for the south—west of england to see some rain, sleet and hill snow. could even see something wintry across the channel islands. elsewhere, quite a lot of sunshine around. still some wintry showers in spots exposed to the wind and it is again going to feel cold for the time of year. now, on friday, again, we'll see some wintry showers, particularly around the coast, but we could see some rain, sleet and snow getting inland at times. most places, though, by the end of the day should be dry. still rather cold, but there is a change on the way for the weekend in the shape of this deep area of low pressure, the centre of which is expected to stay to the north—west of us. but notice all these isobars, some very strong winds, some heavy rain sweeping across the uk.

but with that, it is expected to turn much milder.

live from washington, this is bbc news. ukraine fires us—supplied long—range missiles into russia — a move the kremlin condemns. as ceasefire negotiations continue, a top us official says an end to the israel—hezbollah war is "within our grasp". and prosecutors in donald trump's new york hush money trial agree to delay his sentencing, possibly until after the upcoming presidential term. hello. i'm carl nasman. welcome to the programme. ukraine has launched its first american—made long—range missiles into russian territory, marking a shift in the war.

us officials say russia intercepted two of the eight