why are record numbers of people off sick? and as danger rises in ukraine, france tells us there are no red lines. each time the russian army progresses by one square kilometre, the threat gets one square kilometre closer to europe. morning, morning. apologies for a technical difficulty as we were coming on air. here in the studio we're joined by liz kendall, the government's work and pension secretary. and kevin hollinrake, the shadow housing and levelling up secretary. and with me at the desk throughout the programme

we have nadine dorries, former cabinet minister, broadcaster piers morgan, and jonathan dimbleby, broadcaster and historian — all of whom have personal stories that have shaped their views on assisted dying. but before we get to that let's see what's making the news this morning first... welfare and assisted dying dominate the headlines. the observer reports thejustice secretary describes it as a state death service and the sunday times splashes with a poll claiming public support for the bill. keir starmer�*s promised the mail on sunday a crackdown on what he calls a "bulging benefits bill blighting society". the sunday telegraph and the express both carry warnings about the threat from russia. and while you were sleeping, as the bbc reports, a deal was reached at the cop29 climate summit in baku — 300 billion to help with the costs of climate change after some last minute, late night drama over

whether a deal could be done. jonathan, you take a keen interest in environmental interest, do you think the cop process is still current? , ., . ., ., think the cop process is still current? , ., ., ., current? yes, we have come a long wa . it is current? yes, we have come a long way- it is not _ current? yes, we have come a long way. it is not far _ current? yes, we have come a long way. it is not far enough _ current? yes, we have come a long way. it is not far enough despite i way. it is not far enough despite the commitment of the $300 billion and despite the other actions being taken. trump is a problem on the side, we don't know what he will do and china, but the evidence is overwhelming that we are creeping further and further towards a crisis that will dwarf all other crises we have experienced.— that will dwarf all other crises we have experienced. during your time in government. _ have experienced. during your time in government, this _ have experienced. during your time in government, this was _ have experienced. during your time in government, this was at - have experienced. during your time in government, this was at the - have experienced. during your time in government, this was at the top | in government, this was at the top of the agenda, but it has gone out of the agenda, but it has gone out of fashion in this country, why has

that happened? i of fashion in this country, why has that happened?— of fashion in this country, why has that happened? i don't know. we are not in government _ that happened? i don't know. we are not in government any _ that happened? i don't know. we are not in government any more, - that happened? i don't know. we are not in government any more, but - that happened? i don't know. we are not in government any more, but it l not in government any more, but it is worrying. the economic growth in this country— is worrying. the economic growth in this country is going to come from technology and much of that technology and much of that technology is centred around the green _ technology is centred around the green industry where there are many 'obs green industry where there are many jobs are _ green industry where there are many jobs are created and improvements to be jobs are created and improvements to he mada _ jobs are created and improvements to be made. this cop was like cop 26, which _ be made. this cop was like cop 26, which i _ be made. this cop was like cop 26, which i attended, which was all in the final— which i attended, which was all in the final hour, all in the last minute _ the final hour, all in the last minute and the drama that comes overnight — minute and the drama that comes overnight. but let's not let that detract — overnight. but let's not let that detract from the serious issue. i don't _ detract from the serious issue. i don't think— detract from the serious issue. i don't think it is enough money, not enough _ don't think it is enough money, not enough for— don't think it is enough money, not enough for the poorer countries. we saw what _ enough for the poorer countries. we saw what happened in spain, in europe — saw what happened in spain, in europe just weeks ago. climate change — europe just weeks ago. climate change is — europe just weeks ago. climate change is real but the answer is, because — change is real but the answer is, because we _ change is real but the answer is, because we realise and accept some of these _ because we realise and accept some of these changes may need to happen not as— of these changes may need to happen not as fast— of these changes may need to happen not as fast as we thought they could because _ not as fast as we thought they could because we don't want the cost to be borne _ because we don't want the cost to be borne by— because we don't want the cost to be borne by individuals, it is slipping down the — borne by individuals, it is slipping down the agenda. it is borne by individuals, it is slipping down the agenda.— borne by individuals, it is slipping down the agenda. it is hard to have this debate — down the agenda. it is hard to have this debate in _ down the agenda. it is hard to have this debate in a _ down the agenda. it is hard to have this debate in a cost _ down the agenda. it is hard to have

this debate in a cost of— down the agenda. it is hard to have this debate in a cost of living - this debate in a cost of living crisis. you are one of the people who has good connections with donald trump, what do you think he will do about this agenda when he is back in the white house? i call about this agenda when he is back in the white house?— the white house? i call it cop out, because it doesn't _ the white house? i call it cop out, because it doesn't have _ the white house? i call it cop out, because it doesn't have the - the white house? | call it cop out, | because it doesn't have the landing impact _ because it doesn't have the landing impact it— because it doesn't have the landing impact it ought— because it doesn't have the landing impact it ought to _ because it doesn't have the landing impact it ought to have. _ because it doesn't have the landing impact it ought to have. the - because it doesn't have the landing impact it ought to have. the most. impact it ought to have. the most crucial _ impact it ought to have. the most crucial person _ impact it ought to have. the most crucial person might _ impact it ought to have. the most crucial person might not - impact it ought to have. the most crucial person might not be - impact it ought to have. the mosti crucial person might not be donald trump, _ crucial person might not be donald trump, but — crucial person might not be donald trump, but it— crucial person might not be donald trump, but it might _ crucial person might not be donald trump, but it might be _ crucial person might not be donald trump, but it might be his- crucial person might not be donald trump, but it might be his best - trump, but it might be his best buddy. — trump, but it might be his best buddy. eton _ trump, but it might be his best buddy, elon musk, _ trump, but it might be his best buddy, elon musk, who - trump, but it might be his best buddy, elon musk, who is - trump, but it might be his best - buddy, elon musk, who is emerging as one of— buddy, elon musk, who is emerging as one of the _ buddy, elon musk, who is emerging as one of the most— buddy, elon musk, who is emerging as one of the most transformative - buddy, elon musk, who is emerging as one of the most transformative and . one of the most transformative and powerful _ one of the most transformative and powerful people _ one of the most transformative and powerful people on— one of the most transformative and powerful people on the _ one of the most transformative and powerful people on the planet. - one of the most transformative and powerful people on the planet. hel powerful people on the planet. he believes— powerful people on the planet. he believes in— powerful people on the planet. he believes in climate _ powerful people on the planet. he believes in climate change, - powerful people on the planet. he believes in climate change, he - believes in climate change, he thinks — believes in climate change, he thinks it— believes in climate change, he thinks it is— believes in climate change, he thinks it is real, _ believes in climate change, he thinks it is real, he _ believes in climate change, he thinks it is real, he is - believes in climate change, he thinks it is real, he is there, . thinks it is real, he is there, right— thinks it is real, he is there, right next— thinks it is real, he is there, right next to _ thinks it is real, he is there, right next to trump, - thinks it is real, he is there, i right next to trump, dictating pretty— right next to trump, dictating pretty much— right next to trump, dictating pretty much everything - right next to trump, dictating| pretty much everything trump right next to trump, dictating - pretty much everything trump seems to be pretty much everything trump seems to he doing _ pretty much everything trump seems to he doing and i_ pretty much everything trump seems to be doing and i think— pretty much everything trump seems to be doing and i think he _ pretty much everything trump seems to be doing and i think he will- to be doing and i think he will become — to be doing and i think he will become a _ to be doing and i think he will become a pivotal— to be doing and i think he will become a pivotal figure. - to be doing and i think he will. become a pivotal figure. trump's view, _ become a pivotal figure. trump's view, i_ become a pivotal figure. trump's view, i have _ become a pivotal figure. trump's view, i have spoken _ become a pivotal figure. trump's view, i have spoken to— become a pivotal figure. trump's view, i have spoken to him - become a pivotal figure. trump'sj view, i have spoken to him about this, _ view, i have spoken to him about this, you — view, i have spoken to him about this. you have _ view, i have spoken to him about this, you have to _ view, i have spoken to him about this, you have to bring _ view, i have spoken to him about this, you have to bring the - view, i have spoken to him about| this, you have to bring the people with you — this, you have to bring the people with you if— this, you have to bring the people with you. if you _ this, you have to bring the people with you. if you put _ this, you have to bring the people with you. if you put a _ this, you have to bring the people i with you. if you put a sledgehammer down _ with you. if you put a sledgehammer down and _ with you. if you put a sledgehammer down and say, — with you. if you put a sledgehammer down and say, no _ with you. if you put a sledgehammer down and say, no more _ with you. if you put a sledgehammer down and say, no more fossil- with you. if you put a sledgehammer down and say, no more fossil fuels, i down and say, no more fossil fuels, it will— down and say, no more fossil fuels, it will he _ down and say, no more fossil fuels, it will be ruinous _ down and say, no more fossil fuels, it will be ruinous to _ down and say, no more fossil fuels, it will be ruinous to an _ down and say, no more fossil fuels, it will be ruinous to an economy - it will be ruinous to an economy

that does— it will be ruinous to an economy that does that, _ it will be ruinous to an economy that does that, you _ it will be ruinous to an economy that does that, you don't - it will be ruinous to an economy that does that, you don't bring. that does that, you don't bring people — that does that, you don't bring people with _ that does that, you don't bring people with you _ that does that, you don't bring people with you. when - that does that, you don't bring people with you. when you - that does that, you don't bring - people with you. when you smash people _ people with you. when you smash people over— people with you. when you smash people over the _ people with you. when you smash people over the head _ people with you. when you smash people over the head and - people with you. when you smash people over the head and tell- people with you. when you smashl people over the head and tell them not to— people over the head and tell them not to do— people over the head and tell them not to do something, _ people over the head and tell them not to do something, they- people over the head and tell them not to do something, they will- people over the head and tell them not to do something, they will do l not to do something, they will do it. if not to do something, they will do it if you — not to do something, they will do it if you bring _ not to do something, they will do it. if you bring the _ not to do something, they will do it. if you bring the people - not to do something, they will do it. if you bring the people with i not to do something, they will dol it. if you bring the people with you in the _ it. if you bring the people with you in the end. — it. if you bring the people with you in the end. i— it. if you bring the people with you in the end, i think— it. if you bring the people with you in the end, i think they— it. if you bring the people with you in the end, i think they will- it. if you bring the people with you in the end, i think they will come. | in the end, i think they will come. we will— in the end, i think they will come. we will he — in the end, i think they will come. we will be back— in the end, i think they will come. we will be back with _ in the end, i think they will come. we will be back with you - in the end, i think they will come. we will be back with you later - in the end, i think they will come. we will be back with you later in l we will be back with you later in the programme. it's a big week, notjust because of that vote but because we'll see in black and white how the governments wants to tackle a problem that's grown astonishingly in recent years. the number of working—age people on health related benefits stands at 4.2 million, that's increased by a million since 2019. the number who are not working due to long—term sickness has risen since the pandemic — it's now nearly 2.8 million. and the bill for health related benefits is currently £60 billion a year, and is forecast to rise to 100 billion a year by the end of the decade. well liz kendall, the work and pensions secretary has the job of sorting this out and she's with me today.

as we have just shown people, not just the costs but the increases are absolutelyjaw—dropping. why do you think this has happened? there absolutelyjaw-dropping. why do you think this has happened?— think this has happened? there are a comlex think this has happened? there are a complex number— think this has happened? there are a complex number of _ think this has happened? there are a complex number of reasons. - think this has happened? there are a complex number of reasons. we - think this has happened? there are a| complex number of reasons. we know we are an older, more sick nation and life expectancy and healthy life expectancy had halted even before the pandemic. we are seeing a worrying number of young people now out of work, not in education, training or employment often driven by mental health problems but made worse if they lack basic skills, maths and english gcse. many of these problems are concentrated in parts of the country that were decimated in the 80s and 90s that the last government promised but failed to level up. so there are real problems in certain parts of the country and what we intend to do to get britain working again. this

is about increasing people's opportunities to work and get on at work with better paid jobs in every part of the country. it is also about understanding this fundamental issue, a healthy nation and the healthy economy are two sides of the same coin. the problem at the moment is that our employment support system and welfare system is not set “p system and welfare system is not set up to deal with that problem. it is too much focused on official unemployment figures, those need to be kept low but we have to solve this conundrum of poor health, for work and not in a people being able to earn and build a better life. you have studied _ to earn and build a better life. you have studied this for a long time, both in opposition and now in government but there are a million more people claiming health—related benefits. do you really think there are a million more people in this country who are not capable of work than there were a few short years ago? than there were a few short years auo? ., ., , than there were a few short years ao? ., ., , ., .,, ago? there are a number of factors here will step _ ago? there are a number of factors here will step t _ ago? there are a number of factors here will stop i think— ago? there are a number of factors here will stop i think we _ ago? there are a number of factors here will stop i think we are - ago? there are a number of factors here will stop i think we are seeing | here will stop i think we are seeing an increase in the number of people

with mental health problems. both self diagnose, i think it is good stigma has been reduced, but diagnosed by doctors. we have women in their 50s diagnosed by doctors. we have women in their50s and diagnosed by doctors. we have women in their 50s and above with bad knees, hips and joints. fin in their 50s and above with bad knees, hips and joints.- in their 50s and above with bad knees, hips and joints. knees, hips and “oints. on the issue of mental knees, hips and joints. on the issue of mental health _ knees, hips and joints. on the issue of mental health he _ knees, hips and joints. on the issue of mental health he raised, - knees, hips and joints. on the issue of mental health he raised, and - of mental health he raised, and sometimes it is self diagnosis, if you look at the increase in rates, especially with young people who are not either going into college or working because of mental health issues, do you think you might have over medicalised what essentially can be normal feelings, over medicalised what essentially can be normalfeelings, people now often say they have anxiety? have we gone too far in this and life is hard, sometimes you might feel bad but it doesn't necessarily mean you cannot work?— cannot work? there isn't one simple thin. the cannot work? there isn't one simple thing- the last _ cannot work? there isn't one simple thing. the last government - cannot work? there isn't one simple thing. the last government said - thing. the last government said people were too bluesy to work, there is a genuine mental health problem in this country. there is an

increase, people are much more anxious, the cost of living crisis, anxious, the cost of living crisis, anxious parents and anxious children. the impact of social media. but we have seen a doubling of the number of young people who are not in education, employment or training saying they have a mental health problem. what do we need to do to tackle this problem? number one, shift the focus to prevent it happening in the first place with more mental health support in the community and in people's homes. we are bringing forward a new youth guarantee so that every young person is earning or learning, overhauling the apprenticeship system so more people have a chance to train and bringing together the work, health and skill support driven by the people in local areas. that is what young people desire. if people in local areas. that is what young people desire.— people in local areas. that is what young people desire. if young people will not take — young people desire. if young people will not take pp— young people desire. if young people will not take up those _ young people desire. if young people will not take up those of _ young people desire. if young people will not take up those of us, - young people desire. if young people will not take up those of us, will- will not take up those of us, will they face sanctions and lose benefits if they say no? you have said there should be no option for

people having a life on benefits? yes, we will transform those opportunities for young people, we will put in place a youth guarantee so everyone has the chance to be earning or learning. in return for those new opportunities, young people will have a responsibility to take them up. let me tell you why, if you lack basic skills in this world, it is brutal. if you are out of work when you are young, you can have lifelong consequences in terms of your future job prospects and earning potential. it is also bad for your help. the government will face up to our responsibility, unlike the last government, of having that guarantee in place but young people will have the responsibility to take it up. the young people i meet are desperate for a chance, desperate for a chance to get skills, desperate for a chance to earn or work. is to get skills, desperate for a chance to earn or work. is the welfare secretary, _ chance to earn or work. is the welfare secretary, do - chance to earn or work. is the welfare secretary, do you - chance to earn or work. is the - welfare secretary, do you believe, as the last labour government did,

there are people who can work and will not work, that is a phrase one of your predecessors use, do you believe that?— of your predecessors use, do you believe that? yes, and i know from s-ueakin believe that? yes, and i know from speaking to — believe that? yes, and i know from speaking to our— believe that? yes, and i know from speaking to ourjob _ believe that? yes, and i know from speaking to ourjob coaches - believe that? yes, and i know from speaking to ourjob coaches in - believe that? yes, and i know from speaking to ourjob coaches in job | speaking to ourjob coaches injob centres that are people who could work and do not. but i think they are in the minority. the young people i speak to, i went to tesco in my constituency the other week. young people really struggling with anxiety and depression, getting support from tesco