i'm stephen sackur. serbia is the biggest power in the western balkans, but right now it is at a strategic crossroads. does it prioritise its relationships with the west, in particular its ambition for eu membership, or does it turn eastward, deepening its relations with russia and china? well, my guest in an exclusive interview is the president of serbia, aleksandar vucic. his country is a regional power. but is it exercising that power responsibly? president aleksandar vucic, welcome to hardtalk.

thank you for having me. it's a great pleasure to be here in belgrade with you. let me ask a question at the beginning which links the past and the present. when you were a young man, you were a member of the serbian radical party. you were ideologically committed to the vision of a greater serbia, a vision which led to dark times in the balkans, to war, to terrible loss of life, to war crimes. today you're the president of serbia. you are in a different you are in a different political party. political party. how much have you changed? how much have you changed? i'm not ashamed to say i'm not ashamed to say that i changed myself. that i changed myself. but i disagree with you. but i disagree with you. with who was guilty with who was guilty and who was responsible and who was responsible for many bad things that for many bad things that were happening in the balkans. were happening in the balkans. we have different views on that we have different views on that and not only speaking and not only speaking about our internal issues. about our internal issues.

when i say our internal issues, i mean issues from the former yugoslavia. i mean about the role of western powers and all the others that had a huge impact and influence on the situation at that time. but of course, only we have an idiom in serbian that only donkeys don't change themselves. and now i'm 30 years older. and, of course, i am a matured person now,

assessments and all of your marks of what was happening here, i would say that changing myself and seeing and noticing that economy is something of an utmost important, of utmost importance for the country's future. and apart from that, you cannot do anything without having stability, peace and tranquillity. so, if i may, just one, in a sense, one specific question about the past and how you now see it. and it's about srebrenica and the massacre, which un courts ruled as a genocide, which was committed by serbs in 1995, and thousands of bosnian muslims were killed. recently, the un identified a day for commemoration of what it calls the srebrenica genocide. are you, as president of serbia, now prepared to recognise that was a genocide?

i have always been very much prepared to recognise and to acknowledge that it was a terrible massacre that happened in srebrenica. and i went there. it was 20th anniversary, if i'm not mistaken. i went there and i was able to bow my head and to lay a wreath, and was actually attacked by the crowd. and no—one is denying what was happening in srebrenica. but speaking about that resolution, after 29 years... and that word "genocide", are you prepared to use that word? if it was, that was launched by germans and bosniaks, and we believe that it was a political initiative. and as you could see, 109 countries actually shared our views and people

did not realise why some other, massacres or some other big crimes were not acknowledged or recognised as genocide. and if it's about condolences, if it's about paying tribute to the victims, always ready to do so. and i believe in reconciliation in the region, but i don't believe in that kind of narrative that will always bring new political clashes and new political troubles. it's interesting you say that, mr president, because i've deliberately started in the past because i think it is relevant to the present, to how people perceive serbia today. i am very interested that last summer there was a huge, so—called serbian unity rally which you attended and which

brought together serbs not just from this country, political leaders from this country, but from serbs living in communities in neighbouring balkan nations. now, you used rhetoric. and you, your people, you always rally and gather people from commonwealth countries, you know. so what? no — so let's discuss what was said at the rally. there was a declaration from this rally which noted that, "the serbian people are a unique entity. 0ne nation, one parliament," was the slogan. it rang alarm bells, this language — in bosnia, in croatia, in other countries too. it seemed to many people like the greater serbia ideology is still here. no, it's not, and it's a very much fabricated story by all those people that wanted

to harm serbia and serb national interests. and i'll tell you how easy that is, because you were quoting, or taking out of context, something — we have no aspirations for one parliament, it was an assembly of serb people. it is not the real parliament. the real parliament we have in serbia, the real parliament they have in srpska or wherever else. these are different stories. but what we said in that declaration is that we fully support observation of the dayton peace accord that was signed in 1995. and i was saying thousands of times, and i'm reiterating that now, that we do support territorial integrity of bosnia and herzegovina in adherence with international public law and the dayton peace accord and territorial integrity

of republika srpska within bosnia and herzegovina. what is unclear in that statement? and that was said that day tens of times, but nobody wanted to convey that message. what we wanted to say is that no—one has the right to diminish or to deprive serbian people of their right to use their language to use their cyrillic letters or whatever else. so, if we start to discuss the specific points of great volatility in the balkans today, you've mentioned republika srpska already, which is the serb element within the complex federation of bosnia and herzegovina. you have just mentioned that. the bosnian serb leader, milorad dodik, he said this last may — he said, "bosnia and herzegovina has reached its end. all that remains for us

as bosnian serbs is to make an effort to part — to part — in peace." he wants secession. do you support him, or do you say to him, "mr dodik, you cannot. you will not secede and join serbia"? i have a relatively good relationship with president dodik, and i respect him. i don't give any orders to him. i'm not in charge of bringing any decisions on behalf of republika srpska. i'm a president of serbia. but you see how hypocritical this is. when somebody wanted to secede from former yugoslavia, and you were very much helpful to those people and to those former republics. but if someone wants to secede from them, that becomes the biggest crime. but let me tell you, don't worry with serbia.

i believe that milorad dodik was provoked by different type of actions made by either high representative, either bosniaks in sarajevo or whatever, but these are the issues for him. speaking about serbia, serbia is very much supportive to territorial integrity of bosnia, including integrity of srpska within bosnia. i can repeat it thousands of times, and you cannot find a single statement made by myself on this issue that was different to what i said. i suppose what you could say to build upon that clarity is to say whatever mr dodik and the bosnian serb think they want to do, i will be clear — they will never be allowed to enter a union with serbia. they were not even asking for that. saying that — they were speaking about their rights from time

to time, and not always to go out of bosnia, not speaking about unification with serbia. serbia has its own border, borders according to the constitution and in adherence with international public law, un charter and un resolutions. and we don't need anything more. anything that will come from someone else and will give nothing to anyone that belongs to us. in that context, then let us talk about perhaps the most obvious source of tension and hostility in this region today, and that is your relationship with kosovo. now, you do not recognise the independence, the sovereignty of kosovo. and yet, for the last decade and more, you have been involved in an eu supervised process of "normalisation" with kosovo.

surely if you are supposedly normalising with kosovo, you are de facto recognising kosovo? it has never been said. it has never been written anywhere, something like that. but it's the truth, isn't it? i don't see that like that. i see it differently. normalisation means that we live in peace, stability, tranquillity. that we have a free flow of goods, capital, people, services, that we do develop, our economies, that we start speaking about different issues and try resolving it. how can you live in peace and stability? i'll tell you. this is my question to those people that actually opened pandora's box. when you come to this country, when you say to our people here in serbia, "0k, do you support territorial

integrity of ukraine? " they're going to say "yes, we do." and then when you come from london or from washington, berlin, brussels, saying, "well, we have to protect un charter, territorial integrity of ukraine." you know what people here say? "go to hell because, yes, that's what we do." but what about territorial integrity of serbia? you speak about un charter. why did you violate un charter? i'm asking you now — why your country bombarded serbia in 1999 without un security council decision, illegally — why? as you said, you said you've matured and changed since 1999. i changed many of my views. and you, if i may say so... but i didn't change my view on illegal action that you did against this country. sure, but if i may say so now, as the president, for seven years of your country, you have been seeking a pathway to eu membership. the vast majority of eu countries recognise kosovo. it is clear, there will be no

membership for serbia in the european union until you recognise kosovo. my question to you is whether i was right saying this to you, or you have some other arguments better than you have majority of eu countries that have already recognised kosovo�*s independence. i'm asking you, was or did you violate or so—called western community — did they violate international public law when they started bombing serbia or not? i'm sure that's a question you still put to leaders in the united states, in europe. did they violate, did they violate international public law and the un charter recognising kosovo�*s independence, although it was still in effect? and even today, we have in effect, resolution 1244, which speaks about territorial integrity of serbia. my question is this — it's a simple one about the future — do you believe there is a real danger of a new war

that is based on your hostility and kosovo�*s hostility to you, ie, a resumption of that conflict? if you ask me, if you ask me if this is just not a sort of political game or a political argument. i believe in peace. we are not provoking anyone and we won't do it. and i'm very happy with our economic development. serbia is one out of two or three countries with the biggest growth rate in an entire europe. i believe that you couldn't recognise belgrade when you were coming this time if you were here before. it's a long time since i've been here. yeah, but i believe it's... it's changed. it's changed, it's totally different city. and what i'm taking care of, it's the fact that serbia is today 50% of overall western balkans gdp. serbia is 55% of overall western balkans export. serbia is 64% of overall western balkans fdi attraction. these are my dreams. my dream is expo 2027. my dream is to fulfil all

criteria by the end of 2026. this is what i'm focused on. you brought me back to the past because you need to have some hard discussions as your show is entitled and i have nothing against it. i'm ready to, but my real focus is on economic reforms, is on the future, and just want to have a regular, normal relationship with everybody in the region and that's it. so you are focused on your economy. interesting that with your economic plan there is a close relationship, still, with russia. your energy ties with russia have actually been deepened since putin's full scale invasion of ukraine in february 2022. no, it's not true. these are false datas. i have an exact datas, it's... unfortunately, our trade exchange is twice smaller than it used to be. i'm talking about energy

reliance on russia. you're speaking about energy reliance. and we are trying and doing our best to diversify it. and that's why we built that... ..ibg, that interconnector between serbia and bulgaria. that's why we started not only negotiating, that's why we started buying gas from azerbaijan as well. that's what i discussed that's what i discussed recently with ilkhan aliyev. recently with ilkhan aliyev. it just. .. it just. .. but we still get a lot of gas but we still get a lot of gas quantities from russia. quantities from russia. you do, indeed, and you've you do, indeed, and you've refused to impose economic refused to impose economic sanctions on russia, sanctions on russia, even though the eu, even though the eu, which you want to be part of, which you want to be part of, has imposed crippling has imposed crippling sanctions on russia. sanctions on russia. yes, they imposed all yes, they imposed all the sanctions and they're the sanctions and they're buying 20 times more gas and very much proud of that. buying 20 times more gas and 1,000 times more oil than and 1,000 times more oil than serbia is buying from russia. serbia is buying from russia. here's a memorable statement here's a memorable statement that a us official said that a us official said about you and about serbia about you and about serbia some time ago. some time ago. he said to you, he said, he said to you, he said, "you cannot sit on two "you cannot sit on two chairs at the same time, chairs at the same time, especially if they especially if they are farapart." are farapart." isn't that an actual isn't that an actual description of what description of what you are trying to do? you are trying to do? no, not exactly. no, not exactly.

i sit only on serbian chair i sit only on serbian chair and very much proud of that. i have, as you can see, only one chair. no two chairs and our chair is that it means that we make our decisions by ourselves. it means that we supported ukraine. speaking about humanitarian aid, financial aid more than all the other in the western balkans altogether.

she was a bit angry — that's her right. here's what the former mayor of belgrade said recently. he said, "today's serbia wouldn't even be allowed to become a candidate for eu membership." who is the former mayor, please tell me. mr dragan dilas. it's our political opponent. he's entitled to an opinion. just because he opposes you, you think he can't have an opinion? no — he has all the right to say whatever he wants, it's ok. but it's you're saying that my opponents, they think differently. of course they think differently. at the end, we did it. but the eu sees... we opened the negotiating process with the european union, not them. but i guess what the eu sees in your relationship with putin, in your developing relationship with china, in foreign policy... it's not me that i spoke to putin tens of times in the last two—and—a—half years. i spoke once when he

congratulated me by phone, when he congratulated me, 80th anniversary... the eu sees your foreign policy. what a moment. the eu sees your — hang on — the eu sees... eu leaders were going to moscow seeing president putin and discussing all the issues, and still buying oil and gas from putin and trying to depict as the only culprit serbia. we are an easy target. i'm making a simple point, mr president. i'm saying the eu looks at your foreign policy. the eu looks at your domestic policy. for example, they say that they are — they see signs, dangerous signs of you not respecting fundamental values like the freedom of the press, the independence of thejudiciary, independent rule of law. they say that in all of those different areas, you are moving away from the european pathway. no — you saw the report. they say that we made a limited progress. limited. and they also cited, for example, the independent

journalist association of serbia, which says that 181 attacks on journalists were conducted in this country in 2023. a limited progress is not and does not mean going backwards, which means that you are not saying the truth. but apart from that, i fully agree with you that there are thousands of things that we need to improve, thousands of things that we need to work on. that's why we are now changing regulatory agency. that's now, that's why we are now working very hard and very closely with 0dihr in improving all the regulations regarding election processes and everything else, i agree with them. that's why i said that together with expo, together with the development of the country, and in that eu report, you could have seen that they were saying that serbia's economy is doing perfectly well. but you are not interested to say that. and these are, these are the issues that we need to

improve and i agree with them. a final point, because we're out of time. you said, "i sit in serbia's chair. this allegation that i'm trying to sit in two different chairs at the same time is fundamentally wrong." i just wonder when people say, is serbia fundamentally committed to embracing the european union, or whether it's more interested in developing ties with russia, with china? trump ends the discussion about a binary choice between east and west. i think that, first of all, yes, once again, i am very much proud to sit on serbian chair and which means our strategic goal is to become a full—fledged eu member state, and we will do all necessary reforms and will speed up all the processes, and we will do our best to finish it by the end of 2026. it doesn't mean that we're going to be a part of eu in 2027 or 2028. it's up to eu countries. but whether we are going to say

everything, the rest about our traditional friends or partners from the east? no, we are not going to do it. we are not going to do it. it's whether we have a good relationship with china today. yes, we do. president trump was asking me when i was entering the oval office. he was like saying, "hey, vucic, you...guy," i don't know, "handsome guy, tall guy," whatever he was saying. "you have also problems with the chinese?" isaid, "no, mr president, i have no problems with chinese." and that's because i'm always saying the truth when i speak to different type of statesmen. and i always have the same story, which i present to everybody. and that's what people, they can like me, they can dislike me or hate me or despise me, but at

the end they show respect for that attitude. mr president, we have to end there. thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you very much. hello there. plenty of heavy rain through the day on sunday from storm bert, and some strong, gusty winds, too — this time strongest across the southern half of the uk. here are some of the highest wind gusts here. gusts of wind in yeovilton and somerset of 76mph — that is the strongest gust recorded at this site for 3h years. and some curiously mild air, too — 19 celsius in santon downham, in suffolk. but of course, of most concern has been just how much

rainfall we've been seeing — parts of southeastern wales, of course, seeing some severe flooding. there are plenty of flood warnings in force across the uk, and that number could well rise as, of course, all of that rainfall just continues to feed into the rivers. and here's the area of low pressure associated with storm bert — it's gradually pulling its way further northwards and eastwards, still a tight squeeze on the isobars, the centre of the storm still over the north of scotland as we head through the rest of the night and into tomorrow morning, still gales here. still a few more showers affecting some of these flood—affected areas across southeastern wales, but it's turned a lot drier now, with that band of rain across southeast england. and that will clear as we head through the morning. now, in terms of showers, then the worst of them will tend to be across northwest scotland, gradually pushing further eastwards, more organised rain here. also, for northern ireland and for northwest england, there will be further showers, too. the winds are strong in the north, lighter in the south. towards southeastern wales, there will be some showers on and off through the day — they'll all be blowing further eastwards on still quite a brisk westerly wind,

but some dry spells in between. drier for eastern england, and it's feeling cooler across the board. as we head into tuesday, it is a cooler—feeling day, there could even be a bit of fog around to start off the day in parts of the midlands and wales, perhaps. the storm has now drifted off to the north and the east. still windy with some cloud and some showers across the far north of scotland — some of those showers, possibly wintry in nature — but lots of dry weather around and feeling cooler, too. temperatures between 6—9 celsius for most of us. now, this area of low pressure needs a bit of watching as we head through wednesday. there could be some rain and some strong, gusty winds for parts of east anglia, perhaps, as we head through the day on wednesday. it's a quieter day on thursday — again, there will be some frost for some as we head through the middle of the week, as temperatures tend to dip. here's the outlook for our capital city — so quiter a week of weather ahead, with some sunshine and feeling cooler.

live from washington, this is bbc news. israel's cabinet prepares to meet to discuss whether to approve a ceasefire deal with hezbollah. donald trump's election

subversion case is dismissed, after a judge grants us special counseljack smith's request. and more rain is forecast across southern england and south wales, as the clean—up continues from storm bert. hello. iam i am helena iam helena humphrey, it is good to have you with us. there has been significant progress towards a ceasefire deal between hezbollah and israel. the israeli security cabinet is expected to meet on tuesday to discuss approval of a draft agreement. prime minister benjamin netanyahu is said to have agreed to the deal "in principle". the latest developments are largely due to pressure from the us, which is serving as a key mediator in an effort to prevent the conflict in the middle east from expanding. the truce that's on the table would see a 60—day pause in fighting, during which israeli troops would withdraw from southern lebanon and hezbollah would move further north in—country, so that civilians may return back home in their respective areas.

in their absence, the lebanese army would deploy in areas