we re were there the result came we were there the result came through and it was very clear that that result was a real blow to them and they were very silent, and many people are now beginning to leave as the sun gets lower in the sky and it starts to get colder. but here, generally, a lot of scenes of quiet celebration and some not so quiet, so people have been here have been campaigning for a long time for an assisted buying law —— back assisted dying law and they are pleased that it is cleared the hurdle in this very long process. in the meantime let's talk to someone who has been very close to kim leadbetter... you've been working so hard for moments like this. why does it mean

to you? moments like this. why does it mean to ou? , , . _ to you? this is incredibly emotional. _ to you? this is incredibly emotional. we _ to you? this is incredibly emotional. we have - to you? this is incredibly i emotional. we have worked to you? this is incredibly - emotional. we have worked so to you? this is incredibly _ emotional. we have worked so hard for this_ emotional. we have worked so hard for this and — emotional. we have worked so hard for this and i— emotional. we have worked so hard for this and i think we are one step closer_ for this and i think we are one step closer to _ for this and i think we are one step closer to actually being able to have _ closer to actually being able to have that choice of a kind death when _ have that choice of a kind death when the — have that choice of a kind death when the time comes, itjust means the welsh _ when the time comes, itjust means the welsh market to people like myself — the welsh market to people like myself because a lot of the information coming out —— mckimmie is the _ information coming out —— mckimmie is the world _ information coming out —— mckimmie is the world to be poor like myself because _ is the world to be poor like myself because there's a lot of information coming _ because there's a lot of information coming out — because there's a lot of information coming out-— coming out. you are coming out is from a very _ coming out. you are coming out is from a very personal _ coming out. you are coming out is from a very personal perspective. | coming out. you are coming out is| from a very personal perspective. i have terminal breast cancer. as dagny _ have terminal breast cancer. as dagny is — have terminal breast cancer. as dagny is back in 2022 and it is best to my— dagny is back in 2022 and it is best to my lungs, my pelvic, and at that point _ to my lungs, my pelvic, and at that point i _ to my lungs, my pelvic, and at that point i was — to my lungs, my pelvic, and at that point i was given three years to live _ point i was given three years to live -- — point i was given three years to live -- i— point i was given three years to live. —— iwas point i was given three years to live. —— i was diagnosed point i was given three years to live. —— iwas diagnosed back point i was given three years to live. —— i was diagnosed back in 2020 _ live. —— i was diagnosed back in 2020 i— live. —— i was diagnosed back in 2020 i have _ live. —— i was diagnosed back in 2020. i have been doing really well in my— 2020. i have been doing really well in my treatment. that it is not about— in my treatment. that it is not about the _ in my treatment. that it is not about the amount of time i have, even _ about the amount of time i have, even if— about the amount of time i have, even if i — about the amount of time i have, even if i if— about the amount of time i have, even if i if i — about the amount of time i have, even if i if i live for another six or eight— even if i if i live for another six or eight years, is a about snow when the end _ or eight years, is a about snow when the end comes, i can take on show

and hot _ the end comes, i can take on show and not suffer. so many terminally ill people _ and not suffer. so many terminally ill people like myself are very like that _ ill people like myself are very like that -- _ ill people like myself are very like that -- is — ill people like myself are very like that. —— is about knowing when the end comes, — that. —— is about knowing when the end comes, i— that. —— is about knowing when the end comes, i can not suffer. they do not fear— end comes, i can not suffer. they do not fear dying. i've been talking so much, _ not fear dying. i've been talking so much, my— much, my voice has got really emotional. it would just give them a sense _ emotional. it would just give them a sense of— emotional. it would just give them a sense of peace, while they live with this disease. when your treatment stops _ this disease. when your treatment stops working, and there's nothing else that _ stops working, and there's nothing else that you can do for pain management, and i'm allergic to pain medications— management, and i'm allergic to pain medications and they make me terribly— medications and they make me terribly ill, they be violently ill and i_ terribly ill, they be violently ill and i have had hallucinations, it is horrible _ and i have had hallucinations, it is horrible and — and i have had hallucinations, it is horrible and frightening and to think— horrible and frightening and to think that that could happen with canter— think that that could happen with cancer being on a huge scale. it's 'ust cancer being on a huge scale. it's just quite — cancer being on a huge scale. it's just quite overwhelming and i've been _ just quite overwhelming and i've been using that white a lot now but that is— been using that white a lot now but that is how— been using that white a lot now but that is howl been using that white a lot now but that is how i generally feel. i do not know— that is how i generally feel. i do not know whether it will happen in my as _ not know whether it will happen in my as and — not know whether it will happen in my as and for me. —— i've been using that word, _ my as and for me. —— i've been using that word, ever— my as and for me. —— i've been using that word, ever roaming a lot now but that _ that word, ever roaming a lot now

but that is— that word, ever roaming a lot now but that is howl that word, ever roaming a lot now but that is how i feel. if each generation so that it were such rows, — generation so that it were such rows, then _ generation so that it were such rows, then that is amazing. i saw the reaction _ rows, then that is amazing. i saw the reaction that _ rows, then that is amazing. i saw the reaction that came _ rows, then that is amazing. i saw the reaction that came at - rows, then that is amazing. i saw the reaction that came at led - rows, then that is amazing. i saw the reaction that came at led be l rows, then that is amazing. i saw-"r" the reaction that came at led be to god from people who support the system here. == god from people who support the system here-— system here. -- got from people here. if system here. -- got from people here- if it — system here. -- got from people here. if it was _ system here. -- got from people here. if it was also _ system here. -- got from people here. if it was also no, _ system here. -- got from people here. if it was also no, it - system here. -- got from people here. if it was also no, it would l here. if it was also no, it would have _ here. if it was also no, it would have been— here. if it was also no, it would have been another decade. we not talk about— have been another decade. we not talk about death in this country. everybody — talk about death in this country. everybody is discussing its now for that how _ everybody is discussing its now for that how would i feel, if i had a terminal— that how would i feel, if i had a terminal diagnosis? war i devour is in pain? _ terminal diagnosis? war i devour is in pain? some of the discourse has been _ in pain? some of the discourse has been unpleasant but most of it has been _ been unpleasant but most of it has been really well constructed people are thinking about what they would want at _ are thinking about what they would want at the end of life. what would i want at the end of life. what would i devour— want at the end of life. what would i devour is— want at the end of life. what would i devour is in pain? into not something to be washed, if you have something _ something to be washed, if you have something of knowing this, you could discuss _ something of knowing this, you could discuss those feelings as soon as you diagnose and be so open about it

and but _ you diagnose and be so open about it and but it— you diagnose and be so open about it and put it rising beginning of the process — and put it rising beginning of the process. we and put it rising beginning of the rocess. ~ ., ., ., ., , process. we have had from all sorts of voices who _ process. we have had from all sorts of voices who may _ process. we have had from all sorts of voices who may have _ process. we have had from all sorts of voices who may have a _ process. we have had from all sorts of voices who may have a similar. of voices who may have a similar perspective from an illness point of view, but with feeling absolutely terrified that this bill will be passed today because of what they fear its estate taken over the choice of when to end their life potentially, this becoming wider and including people in all sorts of categories, mental health, disability as well as the white arguments that we a lot of, what about a better palliative care? why is that is not a better alternative to legalising assisted dying? palliative care should be far more invested — palliative care should be far more invested in— palliative care should be far more invested in as well as in hospices because — invested in as well as in hospices because at— invested in as well as in hospices because at the moment, it is not good _ because at the moment, it is not good enough. they should go hand in hand but— good enough. they should go hand in hand but however well invested in palliative — hand but however well invested in palliative care is and how excellent it is, _ palliative care is and how excellent it is, it's _ palliative care is and how excellent it is, it'sjust not relieve the pain— it is, it'sjust not relieve the pain and _ it is, it'sjust not relieve the pain and suffering for anybody anyway~ — pain and suffering for anybody anyway. the law that this is more closely _ anyway. the law that this is more closely based on is the one in our a-o closely based on is the one in our ago which — closely based on is the one in our ago which has been around for over 25 years _ ago which has been around for over 25 years and — ago which has been around for over 25 years and has never been expanded. it has never been repealed

-- in _ expanded. it has never been repealed -- in oregon — expanded. it has never been repealed —— in oregon. but imagine all the countries, — —— in oregon. but imagine all the countries, they have never been repeated — countries, they have never been repealed where this exists because they are _ repealed where this exists because they are popular and be but that was they are popular and be but that was the end _ they are popular and be but that was the end of— they are popular and be but that was the end of life and we have very different — the end of life and we have very different legal systems to what they have in _ different legal systems to what they have in places like canada. this is the terminally ill adults (end of life) _ the terminally ill adults (end of life) biii— the terminally ill adults (end of life) billand it the terminally ill adults (end of life) bill and it isjust for those people — life) bill and it isjust for those people. as life) bill and it is 'ust for those --eole. �* , life) bill and it is 'ust for those neale, �* , life) bill and it is 'ust for those --eole. a , , , people. as we said, this is 'ust the first da . people. as we said, this is 'ust the first day. first people. as we said, this is 'ust the first day. this is h people. as we said, this is 'ust the first day. this is just h people. as we said, this is 'ust the first day. this isjust the h people. as we said, this is just the first day. this is just the first - first day. this is just the first hurdle and we have a longer way to go for support when you consider what is going to come the parliamentary scrutiny the way? either the main conversation would be safeguards. that is for the mps to discuss— be safeguards. that is for the mps to discuss and sort out, that is for the mps _ to discuss and sort out, that is for the mps to— to discuss and sort out, that is for the mps to discuss and sort out, mps to discuss and sort out, that is: — the mps to discuss and sort out, the mps to discuss and sort out, that is: — the mps to discuss and sort out, that is: for— the mps to discuss and sort out, that is: for until april and it is that is: for— the mps to discuss and sort out, that is: for until april and it is going — that is: for until april and it is going to — that is: for until april and it is going to be under intense scrutiny going — that is: for until april and it is going to — that is: for until april and it is going to be under intense scrutiny and i_ and i_ going to be under intense scrutiny and i know— going to be under intense scrutiny and i know that kim is a very open going to be under intense scrutiny and i know— going to be under intense scrutiny and i know that kim is a very open to listening — and i know that kim is a very open to listening to everybody to kissing to listening — and i know that kim is a very open to listening to everybody to kissing in and _ in and _ to listening to everybody to kissing in and making this law as heir point to listening to everybody to kissing in and making this law as heir point as you _ in and making this law as heir point as you possibly can. she is really as you _ in and making this law as heir point as you possibly can. she is really

good _ as you possibly can. she is really good at — as you possibly can. she is really good _ as you possibly can. she is really good at — as you possibly can. she is really good at listening. —— into making good at listening. —— into making this law— good at listening. —— into making this law— good at listening. —— into making this law as— good at listening. —— into making this law as airtight as she possibly this law as— good at listening. —— into making this law as airtight as she possibly can. hopefully, as far as i'm can. hopefully, as far as i'm concerned, the house of lords if you -et concerned, the house of lords if you get passed, — concerned, the house of lords if you get passed, could be one year or two this law as airtight as she possibly can. hopefu could faras i'm this law as airtight as she possibly can. hopefu could fa one 'm this law as airtight as she possibly can. hopefu could fa one year ortwo years. _ get passed, could be one year or two years. i_ get passed, could be one year or two get passed, could be one year or two years. _ get passed, could be one year or two years. i_ get passed, could be one year or two years. i do— get passed, could be one year or two years, i do not know whether it will years. i do— get passed, could be one year or two years, i do not know whether it will be in _ years, i do not know whether it will be in time — years, i do not know whether it will be in time for ye me be in _ years, i do not know whether it will be in time — years, i do not know whether it will be in time for ye me years, i do not know whether it will be in time forye me i hope i will years, i do not know whether it will be in time forye me i hope i will never— be in time forye me i hope i will never— be in time forye me i hope i will never has — be in time forye me i hope i will never has to— be in time forye me i hope i will never has to choose it but it is never has — be in time forye me i hope i will never has to— be in time forye me i hope i will never has to choose it but it is just _ just _ never has to choose it but it is just knowing that it is there. this never has to choose it but it is just knowing that it is there. this is 'ust the is 'ust the just knowing that it is there. this is just the first _ just knowing that it is there. this just knowing that it is there. this is just the first _ just knowing that it is there. this is just the first big _ just knowing that it is there. “in 3 isjust the first big hurdle and it is just the first big _ just knowing that it is there. “in 3 isjust the first big hurdle and it is just the first big hurdle and it will have many more, presumably to is just the first big hurdle and it will have many more, presumably to come along the way. those on the come along the way. those on the other side of the argument i saying other side of the argument i saying that theirfight is that theirfight is other side of the argument i saying that their fight is not over either. other side of the argument i saying that their fight is not over either. back to you. back to you. that their fight is not over either. back to you-— that their fight is not over either. back to you-— that their fight is not over either. that their fight is not over either. backto ou. ., . ,, backto ou. ., . ,, back to you. thanks so much. less back to you. thanks so much. less talk to nancy- _ talk to nancy- _ back to you. thanks so much. less talk to nancy. thank _ back to you. thanks so much. less talk to nancy. thank you _ back to you. thanks so much. less talk to nancy. thank you so - back to you. thanks so much. less talk to nancy. thank _ back to you. thanks so much. less talk to nancy. thank you _ back to you. thanks so much. less talk to nancy. thank you so - back to you. thanks so much. less talk to nancy. thank you so much l back to you. thanks so much. less l talk to nancy. thank you so much for being back to you. thanks so much. less talk to nancy. thank you so much l back to you. thanks so much. less l talk to nancy. thank you so much for being here on the programme. here on the programme.

daniel kruger who was daniel kruger who was against this nation said hence you can do much more for people. presumably, you accept that. —— and a kruger who was against this bill. the accept that. -- and a kruger who was against this bill.— against this bill. the two systems have run in _ against this bill. the two systems have run in parallel— against this bill. the two systems have run in parallel encourages i have run in parallel encourages where is it dying exist. we should also improve palliative care but as we can seen a lot of coverage, even people who are getting the best palliative care, still wanted it as a choice. this always outside of palliative care and about autonomy and people wanting to exercise choice. ., , ., ~' and people wanting to exercise choice. ., , ., ~ , choice. tell me how you think this bill will work? _ choice. tell me how you think this bill will work? i— choice. tell me how you think this bill will work? i think— choice. tell me how you think this bill will work? i think they're - bill will work? i think they're auoin to bill will work? i think they're going to be _ bill will work? i think they're going to be royal— bill will work? i think they're | going to be royal challengers bill will work? i think they're - going to be royal challengers about how it will work in practice which will be crucial at the committee stage. if you think of what two doctors who are doing this, i think people will know that it would be an issue with accessing doctors. —— there will be real challenges about how it will work in practice. the doctors will now have to do how it will work in practice. t