it's not the end of the road. it doesn't mean it's legalised, so we still have chances to go, "listen, these are the very real concerns." this is a profoundly important moment for the terminally ill, their families and for society. it sets england and wales on a path to join country which allow choice at the end of life. hello, welcome to the programme. mps have a taken a historic step towards legalising assisted dying in england and wales. we will be hearing both sides of the debate. thousands of people on the streets of the capital of georgia to protest the government move to suspend

their entrance into the european union. and also even if richard is not immediately return cecil landa, ukraine looks to enter nato. we start in the uk. mps have a taken a historic step towards legalising assisted dying in england and wales. there were five hours of highly impassioned and emotional debate among mps in parliament, and the result could mark one of the biggest social changes this country has seen for decades. 330 mp5 330 mps voted in favour and 275 against, a majority of 55%. it represents the first step in giving terminally ill people the right to choose to end their own life. and in recognition of the magnitude of their decision, the result was met by mps not with cheers of approval, but with complete silence. it was a free vote, meaning that mps could vote with their conscience as opposed to following party orders.

vicki young reports. our voice, our choice. they came to westminster to have their say, to make their final pleas to mps. assistance to live! not to die! powerful voices and personal experiences on both sides of this debate. don't do this. it is the wrong way to go. they are playing roulette with our lives in the future, and they should stop. but for others, it's about choosing the way they'll die. jenny has terminal cancer. changing the law to find a more humane way to die, to allow my children to see me in a peaceful state, would be so much better for them. order! this isn't a government bill. it's been introduced by labour mp kim leadbeater, so mps have no party orders to follow. any one of us or our loved ones could be unfortunate or unlucky enough to receive a terminal diagnosis. and i struggle to see how

it is fair orjust to deny anyone the autonomy, dignity and personal choice that we might want to take control of our final weeks. i agree with the honourable gentleman... but many mps worry that some terminally ill patients will be pressured into taking this path. people do not generally write letters to sick relatives urging them to consider assisted suicide, and then put the letter on file. and coercion in the family context can be about not what you say, but about what you don't say. mary kelly foy spoke about maria, her late disabled daughter. i am filled with dread and fear for those other people - like maria, who are nonverbal and don't have that capacity. i and what might happen and what might happen to others like maria - to others like maria - if they aren't loved if they aren't loved and cared for. - and cared for. -

and there are limits to palliative care... and there are limits to palliative care... others focused on terminally others focused on terminally ill patients whose pain ill patients whose pain can't be alleviated. can't be alleviated. currently for these patients, currently for these patients, we can offer no agency we can offer no agency over their end, no alternative over their end, no alternative to this terrifying death. to this terrifying death. can we truly say can we truly say that's compassionate? that's compassionate? if we don't pass the bill if we don't pass the bill today, we are cornering today, we are cornering all those people. all those people. we are trapping them with we are trapping them with the law against their disease the law against their disease and consigning them to an end and consigning them to an end was in hospital and in pain. of torture and degradation of torture and degradation which they do not which they do not wish to go through. wish to go through. but whatever happens today, but whatever happens today, terminal people will still terminal people will still take their own lives. take their own lives. all we are deciding all we are deciding today is how. today is how. the patchy provision the patchy provision of end—of—life care of end—of—life care was a concern for several mps. was a concern for several mps. you can be certain, _ you can be certain, _ and i mean absolutely certain, that those nhs trusts - with the weakest palliative care offer will be those i with the highest incidence of people choosing to die. in other words, it was not really their choice at all. i when i was six years old...

as a child, marie tidball and i mean absolutely certain,

and i never even wanted to be an mp. but, look, we've shown parliament in its best light today. very respectful, very compassionate debate. irrespective of the different views that people hold. this bill has passed its first hurdle, but there will now be several months of debate as mps pore over the details. it heralds a huge societal change in the way that the terminally ill approach their final days. today, mps approved the principle of assisted dying. now parliament and the government must find a way to make it work in practice. vicki young, bbc news, westminster. we can cross live to westminster and our political correspondent damian grammaticas. i want to get onto what happens nextin i want to get onto what happens next in a moment, but first of all, just your reflections and thoughts on the day there in westminster.— westminster. yes, well, normally _ westminster. yes, well, normally out _ westminster. yes, well, normally out of- westminster. yes, well, normally out of the - westminster. yes, well, normally out of the say i westminster. yes, well, i normally out of the say on westminster. yes, well, . normally out of the say on a friday, westminster is pretty

empty. mps have gone back to their constituencies because they spend friday meeting the local constituents, dealing with issues there, so it's really unusual to see this happen. and a packed house of commons sitting, debating for five hours, and what was pretty extraordinary i think was the sort of level of respect for both sides in this debate. there was back—and—forth with deeply held views and convictions, but each side allowing the other time to speak, allowing many mps the chance to get up because this was not a party issue, political parties did not give direction in the final result. we saw all the party split. we saw party leaders, a current conservative leader voting against, previous conservative leader voting for. which of the prime minister voting for, but quite a number of labour mps voting against. and all of them, you heard in there that

reportjust now, that moment when it passed, silent when it did because it's such an issue of such seriousness. what now happens, though, is that this is not the end my any means, it's just a star if you are hearing there of a six—month process for this will now be deliberated and scrutinised. just walk us through that. we have underlined that it is not law at the moment, do sincerely mean it will become that so just walk us through the stages ahead. . just walk us through the stages ahead. , , ., just walk us through the stages ahead. , ,., , ., just walk us through the stages ahead. , , ., ., , ., ahead. yes, so this now goes to ahead. yes, so this now goes to a small committee _ ahead. yes, so this now goes to a small committee of— ahead. yes, so this now goes to a small committee of mps - ahead. yes, so this now goes to a small committee of mps who l a small committee of mps who are empowered to go through it line by line and try to examine it, make amendments, look to make improvements. normally in a case like this because this is not a piece of legislation brought by the government, they have left it to a single mp to bring, normally that would be fairly restrictive. but already they have change the rules to allow that committee to draw in

outside evidence, draw and outside evidence, draw and outside experts and already those who lost the vote, the losing side today, those against this change, have said there are things in this that they want to look at amending. so the idea that a doctor can recommend to you ending your life, and that will be in this bill. they want to change and took about possibly changing that. they want greater safeguards for a judge he would have to scrutinise whether you would come under any undue pressure to do so. they worry that the definition of who might be eligible to do this could bring in people who have mental disabilities, people who have anorexia and are starving themselves to death so they are concerned about the legalities, the legal wording. all of that six months of debate will happen and it will come back for another vote by mps, then

go to the house of lords for a separate writ of scrutiny in there. so many hurdles still to pass. there. so many hurdles still to ass. �* ., y ., there. so many hurdles still to ass. �* ., i. ., pass. before i let you go, i wanted to _ pass. before i let you go, i wanted to get _ pass. before i let you go, i wanted to get your - pass. before i let you go, i. wanted to get your thoughts pass. before i let you go, i- wanted to get your thoughts on people there in westminster, the reaction after the debate. we have heard from people speaking for the vote and we heard from those campaigners leading up outside westminster of course, reflections is you been hitting the phones and talking to people since we have known the results.— known the results. well, i think clearly _ known the results. well, i think clearly is _ known the results. well, i think clearly is an - known the results. well, i think clearly is an issue i known the results. well, i. think clearly is an issue that everyone, whether they are mps or the campaigners outside, it had deeply held views on, and therefore the result for whatever perspective you came from was one of real importance. real disappointment for some, real a importance. real disappointment forsome, reala moment of importance. real disappointment for some, real a moment of hope for some, real a moment of hope for others because they want to see this change. i think the thing that struck me most of all was how even those who were on the side that won the vote

today, so decide who want this change and want assisted dying with the help of a doctor to be available in the uk, who brought the bill, what they said was that they, too, will listen very carefully through the next months and try to take on board and make the changes necessary to satisfy the other side. and notjust that, they also want to take the issues raised in the debate, so questions about the provision of end—of—life medical care in the uk, the palliative care, so the uk, the palliative care, so the care that's given to you to deal with pain discomfort, how thatis deal with pain discomfort, how that is dumb it will came out in the debate today was how thatis in the debate today was how that is very patchy across the uk, and that they want to use this as a springboard to try and address those issues, too. so things beyond what's just this legislation, but really i think what was striking was how both sides but particularly the site who want this want to take it forward in a way that others

can come on board with as well. damien, think you very much for that. just want to take you to these life pictures in georgia, the streets of the capital, you can see smoke rising there. we have had water cannon being used by police against protesters, and ijust police against protesters, and i just wanted to police against protesters, and ijust wanted to effectively mark your car that we are monitoring these pictures and have been for the last couple of hours. indeed the last couple of evenings there in tblisi. there have been confrontations, clashes between riot police and protesters, protesters out on the street and angry at the government announcement that they will suspend accession talks with the european union until the end of 2028, so basically put on hold any hope or process of the country moving towards and joining the european union.

that has angered protesters. they have been out on the streets. there is a little bit of what looks like a loyal and calm there, butjust so you know, we would dipping in and out of these life pictures in the couple of hours ahead. keep an eye on those there. let's get more now on the master we were just talking about. let's to some people with views on either side. joining us from ontario, canada is drjohn maher, psychiatrist with the assertive community outreach teams. and from wicklow, ireland is tom curran, an assisted dyig campaigner since 2013. thank you both for coming on the programme. i want to appreciate right at the beginning that you two i think hold a bit different views here and it is been a remarkable day of sensitive debate. it is a difficult topic. tom, if i can just start with you, your reaction to the decision of mps today. reaction to the decision of mps toda . ~ , , ,.,,

reaction to the decision of mps toda. , , today. well, i suppose is becoming _ today. well, i suppose is becoming for _ today. well, i suppose is becoming for quite - today. well, i suppose is becoming for quite some today. well, i suppose is- becoming for quite some time. i sunpose — becoming for quite some time. i suppose the issue is one really about— suppose the issue is one really about freedom of choice, and that's— about freedom of choice, and that's all_ about freedom of choice, and that's all it's about. even if there — that's all it's about. even if there is_ that's all it's about. even if there is a _ that's all it's about. even if there is a law brought in, then people — there is a law brought in, then people don't have to choose. i know — people don't have to choose. i know there is a lot of talk about pressure being put on peorrte. _ about pressure being put on people, but i got involved in this— people, but i got involved in this to — people, but i got involved in this to a _ people, but i got involved in this to a personal experience. my partner, wife had ms, and she realised that her life... she — she realised that her life... she put— she realised that her life... she put herself that ms was going — she put herself that ms was going to take control of her life — going to take control of her life but _ going to take control of her life. but she did not wanted to be in _ life. but she did not wanted to be in control of her death. she did not— be in control of her death. she did not want a long, lingering death— did not want a long, lingering death and palliative care is wonderful. we had palliative care, — wonderful. we had palliative care, and i'm very much involved _ care, and i'm very much involved in palliative care now as well, — involved in palliative care now as well, but the thing is that she wanted a choice that when life to — she wanted a choice that when life to her— she wanted a choice that when life to her cease to be worth living, — life to her cease to be worth living, that she wanted to be able — living, that she wanted to be able to — living, that she wanted to be able to take control of that herself _ able to take control of that herself. and that's howl able to take control of that herself. and that's how i got invoived~ _

herself. and that's howl got involved-— herself. and that's howl got involved. . ., , involved. ok, i want to put the same question _ involved. ok, i want to put the same question to _ involved. ok, i want to put the same question to doctor- involved. ok, i want to put the l same question to doctor maher, your reaction to the decision today. it your reaction to the decision toda . . , . your reaction to the decision toda. . , . . today. it concerns me a great deal of muscle _ today. it concerns me a great deal of muscle because - today. it concerns me a great deal of muscle because i'm . deal of muscle because i'm looking _ deal of muscle because i'm looking to _ deal of muscle because i'm looking to your— deal of muscle because i'm looking to your future - deal of muscle because i'm looking to your future as i deal of muscle because i'm looking to your future as a i looking to your future as a country _ looking to your future as a country. i'rn _ looking to your future as a country. i'm coming - looking to your future as a country. i'm coming to- looking to your future as a | country. i'm coming to you looking to your future as a - country. i'm coming to you from canada — country. i'm coming to you from canada where _ country. i'm coming to you from canada where ten _ country. i'm coming to you from canada where ten years - country. i'm coming to you from canada where ten years ago - country. i'm coming to you from canada where ten years ago if. canada where ten years ago if you would _ canada where ten years ago if you would asked _ canada where ten years ago if you would asked me - canada where ten years ago if you would asked me would i canada where ten years ago ifl you would asked me would our society— you would asked me would our society beats _ you would asked me would our society beats supporting - society beats supporting assisted _ society beats supporting assisted death _ society beats supporting assisted death or- society beats supporting j assisted death or people society beats supporting - assisted death or people who are terminally— assisted death or people who are terminally ill, _ assisted death or people who are terminally ill, people - assisted death or people who| are terminally ill, people with disabilities— are terminally ill, people with disabilities offering _ are terminally ill, people with disabilities offering it - are terminally ill, people with disabilities offering it to - disabilities offering it to veterans, _ disabilities offering it to veterans, talking - disabilities offering it to veterans, talking about| veterans, talking about offering _ veterans, talking about offering the _ veterans, talking about offering the children, l veterans, talking about offering the children, i| offering the children, i would've _ offering the children, i would've said, - offering the children, i would've said, no, - offering the children, i would've said, no, we| offering the children, i. would've said, no, we are offering the children, i- would've said, no, we are never going _ would've said, no, we are never going to — would've said, no, we are never going to get _ would've said, no, we are never going to get there. _ would've said, no, we are never going to get there. and - would've said, no, we are never going to get there. and if- g