we're going to start by talking about someone who i'm sure is familiar to many of you. good evening. welcome to the bbc news at ten. mishal husain is one of bbc news�* biggest stars. she's one of the presenters of the today programme radio show. she also presented one of the election debates earlier in the summer on the bbc. and she's leaving. yeah. she has been hired by bloomberg to present a new global interview series. alex farber is the times�*s media correspondent. he's been reporting on her career plans, and he joined us. so it's a story that i had been following for some time. over the summer, mishal had made some comments to the sunday times in which she had alluded to the fact that she was thinking about what might come next for her when her time

on the today programme came to an end. and, really, ahead of that and as a result of that, i had been looking into how long she had left on the programme, fundamentally, and i got to a position where it was clear that we were getting to the sharp end of those conversations. and, yeah, as you point out, ran a story that set out the expectation that she was going to be stepping down from the today programme. and whilst i had heard some noises that there was concerns that she may well be leaving the bbc, wholesale, i was also aware that there was a lot of work under way to try and get her to stay, and so wasn't confident enough to run a story along those lines. and, alex, i know you're not going to reveal your sources, but when i read your story on friday it reminded me that one of the key decisions the bbc is taking is who's going to replace huw edwards on the flagship news at ten, and since that scandal the bbc has been thinking about what it

wants to do about the high—profile evening news bulletin. mishal husain has presented it. she would have been considered a contender. and your piece, if i'm honest, i mean, it could've been read as a throwing down the gauntlet, a sort of "sort this out." and you said talks were under way at that point to find a new role for mishal. and just a few years later — a few days later, we find out that she's leaving. yeah, that's right. i mean, you know, mishal has presented the flagship bulletins, the six and ten. she's been one of a number of individuals that has done so. i mean, it feels really as if clive myrie has been the de facto, the default, replacement following huw's resignation. and talks have been under way for some time, which doesn't necessarily — around 18 months or so, i understand, potentially with tim davie, the bbc director general, involved as well, which doesn't necessarily bode well insofar as them being able to find a place for mishal, which has, you know, upset some staff

because i think she is very, very highly regarded within the corporation. and, you know, i've had lots of messages this afternoon from people within the bbc who consider her departure to be quite a loss. you know... who do they... alex, i'm interested. who do they blame for that loss? well, you know, ithink there is a sense... you know, they would have liked greater effort to have been put in to attempting to keep mishal to stay. now, we don't know the kinds of offers that were made, and what was put on the table for her. ultimately, she obviously decided that whatever was being offered wasn't quite right for her. there is the issue after such a prominent show as the today programme, as to, where do you go next? she'd done it for ten years, more than ten years, which is a long time.

previous hosts of the today programme, presenters, have gone on to newsnight and to the world at one. and while, you know, mishal has done a bit of tv work, she hasn't necessarily, one could argue, been offered, you know, the general election. she maybe could have done... filled in... ..replaced andrew marr on a sunday morning. you know, she could've done... been first choice for the leaders' debates. so there is some question marks as to whether perhaps she could've been offered higher profile opportunities that may well have existed, some could argue. alex, thank you. and, katie, as i'm listening to alex, i'm thinking about the broader strategic situation that bbc news is in. recently, there were cuts announced. also, we know there's a shift in emphasis away from programmes towards digital. and in the middle of this, you have these very high—profile presenters who still have these very important connections with millions of people. and are also paid an awful lot of money. and i suppose... i don't think, i don't imagine that the decisions taken here,

from the bbc�*s perspective, would've been about money. and if alex is right, mishal husain, we don't know why she chose to leave and we don't know what she was offered, but, you know, it looks as if perhaps the bbc was offering her something but she chose to leave. but there is this question swirling, isn't there, about the cuts that need to be made? bbc news is in the process of making these big cuts. it's looking to save a huge amount of money, and i suppose now i don't know whether alex, the next thing you'll be writing is, you know, the questions about the replacement for mishal, obviously, but also, you know, are there bigger questions? does the today programme need another presenter or do you move somebody in who's already paid a lot of money, so therefore, you know, you can close their post somewhere else and thereby save some money because the bbc is certainly looking to make some cuts? yeah, the bbc is looking to make cuts and, you know, for a variety of reasons, actually, it's lost some of its highest profile, highest paid, presenters in the last couple... over the recent period. huw edwards, zoe ball, gary lineker, all for a variety of reasons.

mishal, i think she was paid up to £350,000 or thereabouts last year. so, look, there may well be some savings to be made there but i don't think they will be seeing that as a win because she is such a great talent. in terms of replacements, you know, there is... katya adler is the bbc's european editor. i understand that she's been lined up to fill in for mishal while she was away. rachel burden is another name that's potentially been mentioned. and anushka asthana from itv is another person that people have been talking about as a potential candidate. but, you know, there's lots of... people or agents? i always wonder, is it the people talking about it, or is itjust the agents throwing the names around? well, everyone likes to speculate. it's such a high—profile position that there's a lot of people that would like to do it, and one thing i think it does need to be will be a woman because i think following the departure of martha kearney, who was replaced by emma

barnett, she joined a trio of men — amol rajan, nick robinson, justin webb — they do need to have another presenter because i don't think that those, that four, that core group of four, can carry what is a very intense show. so they will be looking to replace her. alex, if you hear who the replacement is, you know where the media show is. thank you very much indeed forjoining us. that's alex, and you can read alex's reporting on this issue and lots of other media issues on the times website. now, the rappers drake and kendrick lamar have long been rivals. in fact, we should probably put it more strongly than that. they've been having an ongoing feud. yes, throughout 2024, they have been releasing diss tracks directed at each other, and now their beef is heading to court. yes, drake's taking legal action against his record label. he's accusing it of boosting the streams of kendrick lamar�*s most recent track, and we've been speaking to the bbc's mark savage about this. so a diss track is a test of lyrical skill. it is two emcees pitted

against each other, vying to see who can lobby the best insult to take their opponent down, and it goes right back to the start of hip—hop. you know, there's 2pac songs like hit em up and jay—z's takeover. eminem started off doing rap battles. this is part of the metier of rap music. and when it comes to the metier of rap music, there is a very particular diss track at the centre of this lawsuit. yes. so this is kendrick lamar's song not like us. this came as the sort of culmination of two months of back and forth between drake, the biggest selling rapper in the world, and kendrick lamar, the most critically acclaimed rapper in the world. and they had been nipping at each other for years. but it all blew up at the start of this year with a series of tracks where drake, first of all, called kendrick a "midget" and lots of other insults. he said he had abused his wife, something that is not proven

and has been denied. and kendrick hit back with other tracks, saying that drake was not respected by the rap fraternity, that he was an impostor, and then eventually, on not like us, some of the most serious insults, primarily saying that drake was a sexual predator who had a preference for young girls. obviously denied. these are obviously things drake has denied since, on record, and also in these legal papers that have been filed this week in new york and texas. and this filing, it isn't a full lawsuit at the moment, but what are they... what are they saying? so it's called a pre—action paper. and it is... essentially, it's almost fact—finding. drake and his lawyers are saying that they want to sue universal records. that is the label that distributes his music, but also distributes kendrick lamar's music. he says that they artificially inflated the success of kendrick's song by paying radio stations to play it,

by paying streaming services like spotify to promote it, and by paying influencers online to say how good the song was, generating over 100 billion streams, four grammy nominations, all sorts of success for kendrick, who up until that point had been less commercially successful than drake. and people listening to this might wonder, "is this how the record industry works? "is this what happens — that you pay?" i mean, to a certain extent, yes. so there is part of drake's first court paper in new york, where he accuses universal of taking a 30% cut in their royalties to have kendrick lamar's song promoted on spotify. now, actually, that is a known thing. there is something on spotify called discovery mode where any artist, whether they're on a big label or they're independent, can have a reduced rate of royalties in order to have their song seeded into people's playlists more frequently, or to appear on artist mixes more

frequently. that isjust part of how the record industry works. and of course this all ties back to the idea of payola — that was a big, big scandal in the early days of rock—and—roll radio. there was a congressional hearing into it in 1959, where some djs testified that they'd been paid $22,000, and this is in the '50s, just to give a record one play on their station, because it was so commercially important to get your music heard. and that's illegal in the states, isn't it? it is now illegal. it was made illegal after those hearings. you have to disclose it if... you have to disclose it, yes. it would count as sponsored airplay, if you had paid to have a song promoted. there are some perceived loopholes. if the payment is made through a third party then it technically doesn't count. but essentially the practice is outlawed. and is that, payola, as you call it, as it's known, is that relevant to this story?

that is certainly what drake and his lawyers are alleging, that there were financial transactions made in order to get not like us played on radio. one of the stations that he cites is iheartradio — that is the biggest media company in america. they have more than 800 stations in every market, and not like us was definitely a big hit on a lot of those stations. however, in the papers filed in texas they say they don't actually have proof that any money changed hands. and that's what these legal filings are actually about because it's not litigation yet. it's discovery. they want the court to order universal music, iheartradio, spotify to retain any documents that might prove this and to give oral evidence that might support the arguments that drake's team are making. so it's interesting. what you seem to be saying is that the allegations are serious, but actually they

don't have the evidence as yet? they've cited whistle—blowers, people talking online about receiving money or paying money in order to have these songs played. they cite a few things that we do know to be fact, such as a very strange situation where not like us was whitelisted on youtube, which meant anybody who was making a video discussing the song could play it in the background without having a copyright notice that would take down the song. they wouldn't have to pay any royalties for it. that is really unusual, and it certainly suggests that there was an effort from kendrick lamar's side, or from universal music's side, to have his song dominate the conversation. whether or not that's illegal, that's a different question. and i think what's really happening here is we're seeing a huge breakdown in relations between drake and universal music, which distributes his records and has done for 14 years. in the papers filed in new york he said that he had tried to have meetings with

the company and they refused. he said that drake loyalists within universal music were fired. these are all accusations, of course, that universal denies. yes, because what are universal saying about this court case, this potential court case? so they issued a statement after the first legal papers were filed on monday. they said: and then i think the real killer blow was they said, "the reason this song was popular is fans played it," and that, you know, i think there is a little touch of this story where it feels like there are some sour grapes from drake's side because he lost the battle. ok, let's take it... let's look at it the other way and think, "well, if he doesn't lose this battle, "this court legal battle, "what impact might it have on the music industry?" i mean, i suppose especially regarding ethical practices and marketing and the future of streaming services. i mean, listen, artists talk all the time about how unfair streaming is, notjust in terms of royalties but in terms of discoverability, how you find new artists, how new artists break through, how artists on smaller labels or who release their own music are sometimes put at a disadvantage. those are huge discussions within the industry, and i think this case

does have the potential to blow that open. we already heard quite a bit about that when the uk culture select committee held an inquiry into streaming a couple of years ago. so it could expose things that people assume to be true, as fact. but we will wait to see what the lawyers say and whether the judges side with drake's lawyers on whether or not this case can even proceed. and, more broadly, if you are, you know, a big rap star or a big music star, what does your company do to get your tracks out there? well, here's the interesting thing.

drake has benefited from this himself. in 2018 he released an album called scorpion, and along with his record label he orchestrated something called a spotify takeover. now, i don't know if money changed hands for that, but certainly it was a huge promotional tie—up between the two companies, where drake's face appeared on every single playlist on the front page of spotify, including things that seemingly were unrelated to his music like the best of british playlist, and his songs were promoted higher. that album had record—breaking streams in its first week, so it's not unusual forartists, particularly artists with clout, to get bigger promotion than smaller ones, but it will be interesting to see how this then changes the music industry should a case come to trial. mark savage, i think we'll have to have you back. thank you! thank you so much. we're going to talk about advertising because here in the uk at this time

of year it is a big moment in the calendar for the industry. yes, we might hesitate to call this a tradition, but it's definitely become a thing in the last 20 years for some of the biggest retailers in the uk to release christmas adverts, and sometimes they can be watched millions of times. in fact, some people compare this moment for the advertising industry in the uk with the super bowl in the us. your turn. brace yourself! and now the grub. ta—da! franki goodwin is chief creative officer at saatchi & saatchi. she and her team are behind the newjohn lewis ad, and that's where our conversation began. ultimately, it's the story of sally, who has left it a little bit too late to find a gift for her sister, who is difficult to buy for, and she runs intojohn lewis in a right old panic and then is attracted to a beautiful rack of dresses, and then navigates through those dresses into her memories... music: sonnet by the verve ..to find her sister aged seven and then finding her aged 14.

# my friend and me... what are you looking for? something for you. and it's nonlinear in that way that memories are. and that's why it's kind of dreamy, and you have to kind of go with the flow for a while to find out what she's doing, and she's basically trying to find inspiration through these highs and lows of memories with her little sister, and she eventually does. she eventually does. and how did you come upon the idea? i mean, how do you brainstorm something like that? and when did you know that you'd found the idea? well, i mean, we start pretty early in the year and we get lots of people together and we brainstorm lots of ideas and we put lots of teams on it. we knew this year that we wanted to focus on a real relationship, the real relationships that our customers have with their family and loved ones and friends. so that was where we started. but then we also wanted to inject some magic because it's christmas. and so i think that's

where we got to this sort of merging of a real story and real people rather than characters this year, whichjohn lewis has been famous for in the past, but then taking it into a fantastical, dreamy space. and, franki, hi — it's ros here with katie. hi. hi there. to be reasonably blunt about it, you — saatchi & saatchi will get an awful lot of money from john lewis for coming up with this ad and making it. what do they hope for in return? what are you supposed to be delivering with this advert? what are the outcomes they want? well, the john lewis ad is one of the most exciting and anticipated adverts of the whole year. so ultimately i think the public are waiting to be moved and entertained and for it to feel like christmas is kicking off, and then beyond that the metrics are multiple and diverse in terms of engagement, sentiment. you know, we're running a tiktok competition this year because we want the audience to kind of get involved

in a way that they never have done before. and then ultimately, of course, it's about the performance of the store. but you got to the performance of the store at the end. i was just wondering how central that is forjohn lewis. are these adverts designed to drive big sales in the weeks after it comes out, or is it more complex than that? i think it's more complex than that, and obviously we're working at a brand level. so we are about developing a real sense of love for the brand and a reinvigoration of how people feel aboutjohn lewis, that then definitely... you know, the expectation is that translates against many other activations and activities that john lewis are doing to... is there a nerve—racking moment where you all sit down in a room and someone presses play and you wait to see if they're happy with it or not? i mean, yes, there is. there is quite literally a bunker. and, you know, we gather very early in the morning to see how everyone's reacting and what the sentiment is. and it's... it is nerve—racking. the night before, i will tell you, is very nervous. i bet it is.

we're going to talk a bit more about the significance of christmas ads with maisie mccabe, who's the uk editor of the advertising magazine campaign. hello, maisie. you're here in the studio with us. just lay it out for us. is it still a big media event, the christmas ad season? definitely. i think there's, you know, i think some of the viewsl are maybe down l on previous years. we've had basically sort of 15 years of christmas ads, - and it's been such a part| of kind of british culture. people still get really excited. i i mean, it's the only. time that people who, say, don't work in advertising i think about advertising, often. people are genuinely... i loved last year'sjohn lewis one with the foster child and the skateboard. i mean, that wasjust brilliant. i think that was two years ago. i thought it was last year. goodness. it stayed with you, katie. stayed with me. but no, it's good. sojohn lewis is the one that arguably kind of started thisl whole kind _ of super bowl moment. obviously we don't actually - have a game in which for these ads to play, it'sjust kind of an invented thing. - and it started with, i i think the biggest one was the long wait in 2011 | and sort of over a decade, i think the christmas ads, advertising, there was... | what was the long wait? the long wait was the little

boy who was wrapping up i a present, so he was- excited about christmas, and you thought it was to get his presents, i and he was actually wrapping it... - yes. ..for his parents. that's the kind of ethos we want. yeah. but you said that they're going, you know, they're slightly less popular this year. is there a sense of christmas ad fatigue, do you think, this year? not necessarily. ijust think, you know, it's difficult to kind - of keep that momentum. as i say, the super bowl has the actual game - of the super bowl in which for the ads to drop, you know. i people are still really excited. i i think we've had... the media landscape has l become more fragmented, but these ads really do drive sales. - the reason, you know, to your earlier point, . ros, the reason retailers spend money on advertising, - they're not, you know, - retailers don't spend money on things they don't believe i are going to deliver for them. but i'm interested, are they still willing to spend the big bucks on tv advertising when, you know, i was watching some earlier christmas ads in the office, and i was watching them all on youtube because all the brands are putting those adverts there. they could not spend all that money on tv ads, just put them out in the digital ether and let the ad do the work. i think it's quite hard, i actually, for something, for a commercial film to go

viral without lots of money| being spent towards it. i was speaking to people this i week trying to get an estimate of how much people are spending and, you know, the big _ retailers obviously, - probably wouldn't tell us, you know, can still spend - in the region of 750,000 to £2 million in production for these ads, and then they'll spend i maybe another £8 million or so with media on tv. l and then you've probably got another similaramount- on digital and other platforms as well. i and is the christmas ad specifically british, or is it a tradition in other countries as well? have you got any good examples? i imagine it is. it is quite a british. tradition, but it is... you do get christmas ads elsewhere. - there was a really great one from australia this year. - it was actually a mobile platform called telstra, and in it it's got a donkey. i suggest everyone i goes and watches it. the donkey swallows a phone and then becomes famous i for being a singing donkey. # have a hollyjolly christmas. # oh, by golly, have a holly

jolly christmas this year. and then eventually - comes back to his owner. it's, you know, it's— a heart—warming christmas tale. but are you saying, in terms of our ads here in the uk... you know, how do you judge this year's? because there's quite a lot of returning characters, aren't there? people that we've seen before. yeah, i mean, ithink... as i say, the christmas ads were built sort of over- a decade, then we had - the pandemic, which obviously made, you know, just- the production of these things | really complicated, the working| around them really complicated. and i think we had a couple of safe years, and actuallyl this year, i think there's been quite a lot of bravery in some j of the ads. they've got, as you mentionedl earlier, some quite complicated stories in some of them — . lots of post, you've got big, you know, the big characters, there's turning everything - into a gingerbread — - that all costs a lot of money. there's a lot of people - working quite hard to make that look special. there's. .. i think we call them trails rather than adverts. there is a media show trail which does run on bbc news. no christmas theme to it, but you might see it from time to time. and it is the equivalent

for us of the super bowl or christmas, isn't it? it is. it's the only advert we're going to get and we're very happy with it. very happy. and we're very happy that you joined us today. thank you so much for your company. goodbye. bye— bye. and if you'd like to hear a longer version of today's show, search "bbc the media show" wherever you get your bbc podcasts. hello. this is the weekend when november turns into december, but it's not going to feel like it weather—wise. in fact, it is going to feel very mild, often cloudy. there will be some rain, equally a little bit of sunshine. now, we've got a frontal system that has been pushing its way eastwards. behind that, a south—westerly flow, a very mild but moist south—westerly flow, so, yes, there will be a lot of clouds, some mist and murk in places, but this very mild air is working its way northwards across all parts of the uk. so a mild start to saturday morning, but with a lot of cloud, some mist and murk, particularly for coasts and hills in the west, few

spots of rain through the day, parts of northern england, northern ireland and scotland, equally a few brighter spells northeast wales, northeast england, north—east scotland, areas with some shelter from the breeze. but look at the temperatures — 13—15 degrees, very mild indeed for the last day of november. it will be quite windy out there, those winds actually strengthening across western parts as we head into the evening ahead of the arrival of this frontal system that will push its way eastwards overnight. bit of showery rain running ahead of that. so, some outbreaks of rain through the early hours of sunday morning. again, it's going to be really very mild, temperatures holding up in double digits for most as we head into the second half of the weekend. so here goes our frontal system, pushing its way eastwards during sunday. that is going to bring some outbreaks of rain. sunday, probably the wetter of the two weekend days for england and wales, as these outbreaks of rain push eastwards. scotland and northern ireland seeing sunny spells

and showers, that brighter but showery regime spreading to most areas before sunday afternoon is done. still very mild, 12—14 degrees. but we will see a bit of a change as we move out of sunday and into monday. we do start to pick up these northerly winds, which for a time, will bring something colder southwards across the uk, but that is unlikely to last all that long. we see frontal systems returning from the atlantic. from midweek onwards, things will turn milder, but they will also turn quite a lot more unsettled, with some wet and potentially very windy weather to end the week. so next week looks like this, briefly turning a bit colder, milder again later, but more unsettled.

live from washington. this is bbc news. rebel forces in syria launch their biggest offensive in years amid heavy fighting near the city of aleppo. protesters take to the streets of georgia's capitalfor a second night — over the government suspending moves to join the eu. the british parliament backs proposals to allow terminally—ill adults in england and wales the right to end their own lives. plus, five and a half years after being ravaged

by fire, paris's notre dame cathedral emerges from the ashes. hello, i'm helena humphrey. rebel forces in syria have been advancing further into aleppo, the country's second biggest city, on the third day of their surprise offensive. they have taken control of several districts, despite efforts by president assad's army to hold them off. around twenty towns and villages in the region are also reported to have captured. monitoring group the syrian observatory for human rights says half of aleppo is now under rebel control. a civil war has been grinding on since government forces put down pro—democracy protests in 2011 — but it's the first time in eight years the city hasn't been under the control of the syrian government, which is backed by russia. in the city of idlib, which is an opposition stronghold, people set off fireworks to celebrate

the advance of rebel groups.