tv BBC News BBC News November 30, 2024 11:00pm-11:31pm GMT
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hello i'm carl nasman. the pro—western president of georgia has told the bbc she'll stay in her post, amid a crisis over the government's decision to suspend accession talks with the european union. but she says she will not stand down because the current parliament is what she calls �*illegitimate�*. the ruling georgia dream party announced on thursday that it will put talks with the eu on hold until 2028. a quick warning these pictures coming up may have some flashing images. this is the scene now live in tbilisi. earlier police used water cannon and tear gas against demonstrators who turned out in their thousands near the parliament building in the capital for a third night running. police say 107 people have been arrested. our russian editor, steve rosenberg
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is intibilisi and sent this report, and a warning his report contains distressing images. as night fell in tbilisi, they were building barricades, using anything they could find. people here are angry that the ruling party have suspended georgia's bid tojoin the european union. they believe that russia is pulling the strings. i am protesting against our government who is pro—russian and they don't want to have any relationship to europe or usa. and i am here for my freedom, for my future. suddenly, fireworks, aimed right at the parliament building. we could see a room inside ablaze, and figures who climbed up to the windows. looking, perhaps, for a way in. most of the protesters i have spoken
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to here say they won't give up, they will keep coming out onto the streets until they can secure georgia's future in europe. the authorities are clearly under pressure, but so far there is no sign of any u—turn by the government. it seems determined to crack down. defiance on the streets, and from one of the government's fiercest critics — georgia's pro—eu president. her role is largely ceremonial and her term due to end in december. but today she refused to step down, dubbing the government illegitimate. do you fear for your safety? i mean, do you think you could be arrested? i think i am defended by the people out on the streets so i don't think so. i think that today the ruling party is very isolated, and it will be more and more so. in recent days, some protesters have been beaten by police.
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georgian journalist guram rogava was live on tv when this happened. guram told me he'd been hit so hard he blacked out. translation: i think our citizens are now being forced to think, - do they want to live in a country where peaceful protest is being punished and where journalists are being attacked from behind when they're speaking about what's really going on? if we want to live in a country like this, so be it. georgia's government blames what it calls violent protests on european politicians and local agents. on the streets, they say they are fighting for georgia's future. steve rosenberg, bbc news, tbilisi. live now to that scene where demonstrations continue. you live now to that scene where demonstrations continue. you can see fireworks being _ demonstrations continue. you can see fireworks being shot _ demonstrations continue. you can see fireworks being shot toward _ demonstrations continue. you can see fireworks being shot toward that - fireworks being shot toward that line of police there. it's about 3am, those protests continuing
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enough third night in a row, many protesters still in the streets there. you can see that line of police, fireworks going off there in the night. more on the situation there with tengiz thaladze, a senior fellow at european centre for international political economy — and a former presidential foreign relations adviser.he joined me from tbilisi to discuss the current situation. thank you forjoining us, georgia's president saying today that the country's parliaments and prime minister are not legitimate. she says she won't be stepping down until their new parliamentary elections. what do you make of the way that the georgia's president is approaching this. she way that the georgia's president is approaching this.— way that the georgia's president is approaching this. she is the head of state and, approaching this. she is the head of state and. of _ approaching this. she is the head of state and, of course, _ approaching this. she is the head of state and, of course, in _ approaching this. she is the head of state and, of course, in such - approaching this. she is the head of state and, of course, in such a - state and, of course, in such a critical— state and, of course, in such a critical situation. her attitude means— critical situation. her attitude means a _ critical situation. her attitude means a lot, and today she is the only elected official in the country
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because _ only elected official in the country because the legitimacy of the election— because the legitimacy of the election and also this amendment after those elections, a new president will be elected by the special— president will be elected by the special coalition with parliaments as part _ special coalition with parliaments as part of— special coalition with parliaments as part of it. so consequently, president's logic is the parliament is legitimate said, they can't elect it neither— is legitimate said, they can't elect it neither president nor nominated approved — it neither president nor nominated approved government and so on and so on. approved government and so on and so on this _ approved government and so on and so on this is _ approved government and so on and so on. this is quite a strong political message, — on. this is quite a strong political message, but also along this, the president— message, but also along this, the president has quite intense conversations and communications with the _ conversations and communications with the civil society of georgia, with the civil society of georgia, with political parties and i do believe — with political parties and i do believe that she got support from society _ believe that she got support from society. we believe that she got support from socie . ~ ., , believe that she got support from socie. .,, , society. we are seeing protesters for another _ society. we are seeing protesters for another night _
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society. we are seeing protesters for another night here _ society. we are seeing protesters for another night here also - society. we are seeing protesters l for another night here also spurring in other cities across the country. already the word has been thrown around here referring to what happened in ukraine a few years ago, where do you think this ends? could we see some sort of mass movement in georgia to overthrow what many there see as a government that came with some serious irregularities during the election?— the election? yes, of course. the election was _ the election? yes, of course. the election was the _ the election? yes, of course. the election was the trigger _ the election? yes, of course. the election was the trigger of - the election? yes, of course. the election was the trigger of the - election was the trigger of the process, — election was the trigger of the process, but i would say that the main _ process, but i would say that the main detonator was the statement of the, just— main detonator was the statement of the, just two days ago, about special— the, just two days ago, about special european integration process, _ special european integration process, you are absolutely right talking _ process, you are absolutely right talking about manifestations not only in _ talking about manifestations not only in the capital of georgia, but in the _ only in the capital of georgia, but in the other big cities. and i would say that— in the other big cities. and i would say that this is once again proving how strong — say that this is once again proving how strong its commitment of georgia
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nation _ how strong its commitment of georgia nation is _ how strong its commitment of georgia nation is with european integration. this is— nation is with european integration. this is written in our constitution. so this— this is written in our constitution. so this process, this is the main question— so this process, this is the main question today when asking, i would say that— question today when asking, i would say that this will strengthen georgian democracy in georgia gets back georgia as soon as possible on the euro— back georgia as soon as possible on the euro atlantic path and restoration of strategy in partnership with the european union and with— partnership with the european union and with the united states. you mentioned _ and with the united states. you mentioned that _ and with the united states. 7m. mentioned that statements coming today from the us state department condemning violence against protesters and suspending its strategic partnership. what you make of the role of the international community here? would you like to see countries doing more? yes. this is extremely — see countries doing more? yes. this is extremely important _ see countries doing more? yes. this is extremely important and - see countries doing more? yes. this is extremely important and the - is extremely important and the statement from the international community that though they don't recognise — community that though they don't recognise the election, questioning the legitimacy of the election they still support and will support
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democracy in georgia. today, the united _ democracy in georgia. today, the united states considers its senate and congress two very important hills _ and congress two very important hills so — and congress two very important hills so it— and congress two very important bills. so it is very important to see actions supporting georgian democracy, notjust statements. and i do democracy, notjust statements. and i do believe _ democracy, notjust statements. and i do believe that with supportive international community, democracy will prevail _ international community, democracy will prevail and democracy will win. very briefly — will prevail and democracy will win. very briefly if you don't mind before i let you go, what do you think happens next? how do you think the georgian dream party will respond? the georgian dream party will resond? ., ., , ., ., respond? today what we see and what we are witnessing, _ respond? today what we see and what we are witnessing, this _ respond? today what we see and what we are witnessing, this is _ respond? today what we see and what we are witnessing, this is a _ we are witnessing, this is a violation _ we are witnessing, this is a violation of all country standards of rule _ violation of all country standards of rule of — violation of all country standards of rule of law and human rights. not only the _ of rule of law and human rights. not only the president of a public defender statement, it depends on
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the resilience and resistance of the georgia _ the resilience and resistance of the georgia society at the one point on the other— georgia society at the one point on the other hand it is also dependent on the _ the other hand it is also dependent on the international reactions because — on the international reactions because when we have such a violation _ because when we have such a violation of the standards of democracy of course it should be addressed — democracy of course it should be addressed by the statements but also by actions _ addressed by the statements but also b actions. 1 . ~ addressed by the statements but also b actions. 1, . ,, ., ., ., by actions. back live now to that scene there _ by actions. back live now to that scene there in _ by actions. back live now to that scene there in georgia. - by actions. back live now to that l scene there in georgia. during the morning you can see those protests continue, you can see those protests continue, you can see those protests continue, he conceals fireworks shot by protesters at the police. looks like a round of tier gas is cleared out for now, those protesters from the front lines, you can see the barricade built there, we've seen tear gas, water cannon used against protesters. the us state department issued a statement condemning violence that had been used against some of those demonstrators there. several arrests have been made
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there. the syrian president, bashar al—assad, is facing his biggest crisis in years as rebel groups take control of the much of the country's second largest city, aleppo. islamist forces are on their fourth day of a lightning offensive, capturing many towns and villages. they are now sweeping south towards syria's fourth biggest city, hama, on the road to the capital, damascus. the syrian military says troops have been temporarily withdrawn from aleppo "to prepare a counteroffensive". rebels celebrated in the streets of aleppo. they reportedly met little resistance, though the army says dozens of its soldiers have been killed or injured. president assad — who hasn't been seen in public since the offensive began — has promised to defeat the opposition fighters, describing them as terrorists. he said he would do so with help from his allies, which include russia, iran, and hezbollah. russia has helped the government bomb the rebels. the london—based syrian observatory for human rights says
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more than 300 people, including at least 20 civilians, have been killed since wednesday. turkey — which backs the rebels — has been discussing the crisis with moscow. our correspondent, barbara plett usher, is monitoring developments from neighbouring lebanon. a stunning victory for the rebels. even they overcome with its swiftness and success. just three days after launching a surprise offensive from their stronghold in north—west syria. this is the most serious challenge to president assad in years. a carefully planned attack. they stormed back into aleppo for the first time since assad's army forced them out at the height of the war, this time meeting almost no resistance. translation: after hard workj and patience from the fighters, the city of aleppo has been completely liberated, thank god. and by god's will, we will reach horns and damascus too. this is a joint force of rebel groups, led by the islamist hayat tahrir
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al—sham, or hts. it used to be linked it used to be linked to al-qaeda but cut ties to al-qaeda but cut ties from the group years ago. from the group years ago. hts is listed as a terrorist hts is listed as a terrorist organisation by the us and others. organisation by the us and others. it controls most of it controls most of the north—western province of idlib, the north—western province of idlib, the last remaining opposition the last remaining opposition stronghold after more stronghold after more than a decade of civil war. than a decade of civil war. that war began in 2011, that war began in 2011, triggered by popular protests triggered by popular protests against assad's rule. against assad's rule. russia intervened in 2015, russia intervened in 2015, turning the tide against turning the tide against the advancing rebels. the advancing rebels. a war in ukraine. the battle for aleppo in 2016 the battle for aleppo in 2016 was a crucial point. was a crucial point. syrian and russian forces gained syrian and russian forces gained control after a gruelling siege. control after a gruelling siege. the war�*s mostly gone quiet since, the war�*s mostly gone quiet since, with occasional eruptions. with occasional eruptions. the last major one in 2020 the last major one in 2020 when syria and its russian when syria and its russian allies attacked idlib. allies attacked idlib. now, again, russian warplanes now, again, russian warplanes are bombing aleppo. are bombing aleppo. the syrian army says it has the syrian army says it has made a tactical retreat made a tactical retreat to prepare a counteroffensive. to prepare a counteroffensive. the kremlin is assad's the kremlin is assad's most important ally, most important ally, but it is now also fighting but it is now also fighting
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a war in ukraine. iran and the lebanese hezbollah are also sending fighters to syria, but they have been weakened by israeli attacks in the region. that is one reason the rebels were able to advance so quickly. reviving a simmering conflict at a time when the middle east is in turmoil. barbara plett usher, bbc news, beirut. joining me live is a syrian expert from the middle east institute — firas maksad. great to have you. are you surprised at how quickly, how successfully these rebel groups have been advancing through syria? yes. these rebel groups have been advancing through syria? yes, i think the rebels _ advancing through syria? yes, i think the rebels themselves - advancing through syria? yes, i think the rebels themselves are surprised at the lightning speed that they've been able to make these advances into syria's second largest city in aleppo with very little resistance. that said, the timing here has been crucial. launching this attack, this strike when iran has bogged down, his brother is
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transition of power in washington with the trump administration coming into office onjanuary 20. trump in the past had spoken his mind, wanting to pull us troops out of syria. that would create a vacuum and the turkish president who supports these rebels have in the past also tried to extend overture, a fig leaf that was refuted and this is the turkish strike to perhaps set the table for the future of syria, the table for the future of syria, the negotiations that are to come. russia playing a role here. we know russian strikes have been hitting aleppo, how important is russia's backing of syria? it’s aleppo, how important is russia's backing of syria?— backing of syria? it's absolutely crucial. but _ backing of syria? it's absolutely crucial. but unfortunately - backing of syria? it's absolutely crucial. but unfortunately for i backing of syria? it's absolutely| crucial. but unfortunately for the asad regime, the coalition that was there that turned the tide in his was asad regime, the coalition that was there that turned the tide in his favour in 2015 is no longer there. favour in 2015 is no longer there. at the time, the head of the forest, at the time, the head of the forest,
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the uranian irg see flew to moscow the uranian irg see flew to moscow and reportedly met with president and reportedly met with president putin. so the asad regime was putin. so the asad regime was fighting with the russian air force fighting with the russian air force and with the militias as a ground and with the militias as a ground force. the uranian militias are not force. the uranian militias are not there because hezbollah is so we can there because hezbollah is so we can with their war with israel, the with their war with israel, the russian air force is consumed in russian air force is consumed in ukraine, so it's a very precarious ukraine, so it's a very precarious position for the asad regime stop position for the asad regime stop what we talk a lot about the what we talk a lot about the geopolitical implications here, what geopolitical implications here, what about for syrians themselves, just about for syrians themselves, just people living there. how will this people living there. how will this affect the humanitarian situation of affect the humanitarian situation of the country? it is absolutely the country? it is absolutely miserable. for many syrians it's a miserable. for many syrians it's a choice of the lesser evil. there is choice of the lesser evil. there is no democracy here in the output for no democracy here in the output for syria. we are talking about islamist syria. we are talking about islamist rebels, certain sections of them rebels, certain sections of them which was affiliated with al-qaeda which was affiliated with al-qaeda at some point has since broken with at them but islamist rebels nonetheless and authority and tarrying regimes in the past that have used met
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