tv The Firing Line 2024 BBC News December 1, 2024 3:30am-4:01am GMT
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as conflict rages across the globe and press freedom comes under sustained attack. we celebrate the crucial work and unwavering commitment of freelance journalists and filmmakers worldwide. often the only eyes on the ground. in challenging and dangerous places. who are the people who bring us these stories? how do they do it? and what drives them to the firing line? as journalists we know the importance of being where news breaks. of capturing the situation on the ground, of living the story. that it would be impossible to tell the biggest and most consequential global stories of our time without the work of freelance journalists and filmmakers who often operate in incredibly difficult circumstances under great personal strain. each year their workers honoured by the rory packed awards named after a british freelancer who killed in moscow covering the october coup in 1993. his work lives on through the rory packed trust which is supported freelance journalists and theirfamilies around the world for nearly 30 years. over the next half hour we will hear from the 2024 finalists and winners whose work reflects the turbulent and volatile times we live in. it explores the human cost that so often lies at the heart of these stories from across the world. first up, the award for news for work that
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focuses on the immediacy of the story. hello, i'm lucy hockings, co—host of the bbc�*s ukraine cast podcast with vitaly shevchenko. it's been a fortnight since president biden authorised the use of us missiles and weapons into russia. john sullivan was ambassador to russia under presidents biden and trump. this week we asked him what the new trump administration means for the war. ambassador sullivan, i'm fascinated by your office. there's a coat hanger in the corner with a bunch of russian hats. military, i think. then there's a a cska moscow ice hockeyjersey. is that right? yeah. yeah, it's the seven. i believe it's the 75th anniversary of the red army ice hockey team. i'm a big hockey fan, and that was a gift to me by actually the marine security guard detachment at embassy moscow. and they all signed it. so all of their signatures are on the front of that hockey sweater. ice hockey is what got you interested in russia. it did more than 50 years ago. 52 years ago, to be exact, the summit series between the soviet union and canada. and i was a huge ice hockey fan youngster in the boston area and followed that series very closely. ambassador sullivan, can i ask you about an extract in your book where you say, by the summer of 2019, i'd been the deputy secretary of state for well over two years. in ordinary times, it was a difficult and stressfuljob
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in the trump administration. it was a pressure cooker. going to moscow seemed like a reprieve, which is really saying something. are we again in another pressure cooker situation? well, it was a pressure cooker for me personally because of how unsettled my schedule and my life was as deputy secretary. we're in a pressure cooker with respect to russia. we're in a pressure cooker with respect to the world generally and not be. we're already in that pressure cooker now in the biden administration, in my opinion. and i don't know if the heat's going to be too soon to tell weather the heat's going to be turned up in the second trump administration. so, no, i wouldn't say because trump was elected. there's a new pressure cooker in washington. that's a mistake. but in terms of pressure and tensions, they are certainly rising. are they not? last week, president biden authorised ukraine to fire us supplied missiles into russia. why did he do that at this stage? and what does it mean? is it going to help ukraine orjust lead to more pressure? the rationale that was offered by the biden administration, as i understand it, and i haven't been out of, out of government for for two years. so this is my understanding was that they were responding in part to an escalation by the russian
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federation in introducing north korean troops into the conflict. um, in russia, the russia—ukraine war. so, uh, it was a step that i think should have been taken sooner. uh, and it allows ukraine to better defend itself. i don't think, as secretary austin has said, the current secretary of defence, i don't think it's a so—called game changer that's going to turn the tide in the war for for ukraine. but it's certainly a step in the right direction. is there anything else that president biden can do between now and inauguration day to help ukraine? uh, well, as i understand it, they are continuing to push out equipment and other resources that have been authorised by congress. of course, the new administration, uh, can, you know, can countermand any orders that haven't, haven't
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been fulfilled. i think we should be focussed on convincing the trump administration that the best policy for the united states, for us— national security, is to oppose russian aggression. uh, we talk about support for ukraine, and i understand it. and i am as big a supporter of ukraine as you're going to find. but in phrasing what's in the us national interest, what's in the us national interest, strictly speaking, is opposing russian aggression. the focus of that aggression today is on ukraine, to a lesser extent, moldova and georgia, and even to a lesser extent from that, the hybrid war that they've been engaged in with the west, particularly in eastern europe, the most acute crisis is in ukraine, which is where i think we need to focus our opposition to russian aggression. but the real issue for the united states is russia. and so when i hear my fellow
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republicans say they don't care about the borders of ukraine, they care more about the borders of the southwestern border of the southwestern united states. i say, okay, then what's your russia? you don't care about ukraine? then what's your russia policy? and if your russia policy, if your idea of how the united states deals with russia does not include opposing russia in ukraine, then you have a failed russia policy. what do you believe, though president trump's view is on the conflict? i don't know, one of the reasons why i thought it was a pressure cooker. for me, being deputy secretary was how much things changed without notice within the trump administration. but i'm not prepared to say that i know now that trump is going to surrender ukraine and putin is going to prevail. i don't know that. my hope is that the incoming trump administration is focussed on the challenges,
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the risks of the enemy. and that is putin's word for us in the west, for the united states. he considers us an enemy, and the new administration has to treat russia and act accordingly to understand what the government is about in moscow and the threat it poses to not just the west, but to the united states in particular. how do you convince people of that? ambassador sullivan, if you're talking to republicans who want to withdraw support or are no longer wanting to send military aid or money, particularly, they want to protect their own borders. it's america first. how do you what do you say to convince them otherwise? russia considers the united states its enemy. when putin describes the great geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century, the dissolution of the soviet union, he has a grudge against the united states for prevailing in the cold war, for
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defeating the soviet union and celebrating that defeat, _ declaring the end of history in the 19905. he has set about for decades to rectify that. so he is about an aggressive nationalist expansion programme that is a direct threat to nato allies in eastern europe and to the united states. he's waged an aggressive war, a hybrid war against the united states. we haven't seen evidence yet of the the fsb or the gru committing murders on the streets of the united states. but they've done that in salisbury. they've done that in berlin. uh, so it's a hybrid war against the west. we lead the west, the united states. so we're in the crosshairs of the war that putin has started. ukraine isjust a big
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part of it now, but it's only part of it. given everything you've just said, how do you negotiate, then with russia and with president putin? if we're looking... there is no there is no negotiation. how do we bring an end to the conflict in ukraine? if you use the phrase negotiation with a westerner, if you use the phrase, the word negotiation with my colleagues, former colleagues at the state department, we think about we approach our counterparty in the kremlin and we uh, you know, we look for good faith gestures to establish a rapport and are planning for a give and take good faith negotiations. those are not possible with, uh, with putin and with the kremlin, period. now, don't misunderstand me. we need to talk to the russians. we need to tell them things. and importantly, listen to what they tell us.
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but there are no negotiations. what has putin never said that he would compromise on? nothing. he will never compromise his war aims, which are denazifying and demilitarising ukraine. and that's just the start. ukraine. so no, there are no negotiations. there's no negotiated end, uh, you know, fair settlement to this, this war. putin may agree to a ceasefire if the battlefield situation is such that, uh, you know that he wants a respite to rest and refit, uh, but he will never surrender his war aims. and so i don't if you start thinking about negotiations the way we in the west conceive of negotiations, you are heading to failure
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and victory by russia. you have to approach, understand who it is you are talking to. and i use this approach when i was ambassador, i never asked the russian government for anything. i was warned by a pretty savvy, uh, it was actually a russian orthodox bishop who once warned me... he said, never, ever ask the russian government for anything. they will interpret it as weakness and won't take you seriously. so i would always tell the russians, respectfully, what i thought the situation was, whatever the issue was, what the united states was going to do about it and let them react. so negotiations, the way we conceive of negotiations in the west, if we approach it in that, way, as we've done in the past, it will inevitably lead to failure. so how can this end? more weapons to ukraine, troops, boots on the ground in ukraine
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when donald trump says he can end it in one day? is that even possible? no, no, i mean, the war... i mean, uh, that's i mean, that's as zelensky has said, that's that's political rhetoric. that's not possible. putin is not going to, uh, stop the war, particularly when there are ukrainian troops on what was, you know, pre—2014 uh, territory of of the russian federation. uh, near kursk. so no, we in the west, notjust the united states... there needs one thing.. there needs one thing. i think trump is right about is burden sharing. i'm as worried about developments in berlin as i am about developments in washington with respect to support for for ukraine. with respect to support for ukraine. so i think there needs
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to be burden sharing in the west to provide support for for ukraine to resist russia's military aggression. i think the best we can hope for at this point in the short term is, uh, you know, a frozen conflict, a frozen line of contact. uh, we have we've lived with that on the korean peninsula for many decades, and without and from the west's perspective, without surrendering, never surrendering, or acknowledging russia's acquisition by force, by violence of territory, of another country, the way we didn't recognise the soviet union's absorption of the baltic states. it's really interesting hearing how you feel that the language and the approach so far has been wrong, and it's about talking to them and not negotiating with them. so what's your best piece of advice going forward? if you're the incoming
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trump administration and his team, what do they do on day one? first, i would continue the supply of weapons that has been undertaken in the biden administration to give ukraine the means to defend itself. that's not escalation. russia started this war giving ukraine the means to defend itself... and if you want to talk to the russians, biden hasn't spoken to putin since the war began. schulz, the german chancellor, just spoke to putin. uh, you know, a few.... i guess it's probably a week or two ago now. uh, you know, tell putin what our view is so that there's no misunderstanding that we will never recognise the russian absorption of territory by force and will continue to support ukraine as it resists the ongoing russian aggression in the donbas. the ongoing russian aggression in the donbas
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now, as we speak. and president trump that makes that call? do you think that it has to come from him? i think the message has to come from him. he has to endorse it. i mean, it has to be the united states president speaking on behalf of the united states. it's not going to be the secretary of state or the secretary of defence, or for that matter, the german chancellor. what do donald trump's picks for his new administration. what do they tell us? because there are completely different people with different views. pete hegseth is saying that it's right to call vladimir putin a war criminal. tulsi gabbard, proposed director of national intelligence, says that russia had legitimate security concerns and that's why it invaded. what does it tell us about donald trump's plans how to tackle this issue? well, his secretary of state designate also, he held up senator rubio,
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delayed secretary tillerson's confirmation as secretary of state because the secretary... secretary tillerson wouldn't say, despite persistent questioning by rubio, wouldn't, uh, agree that putin was a war criminal. and this was in january 2017. so i think you've got a secretary of state, a secretary of defence... and oh, by the way, i believe a national security adviser who have, i think, an informed and realistic view of, uh, _ of the russian federation and of putin. i will acknowledge there have been some other picks that are not as, not as stalwart in what i think is the correct view of, uh, of russia and putin. in recent days, we've heard some politicians in europe discussing the possibility of foreign troops on the ground in ukraine. and you've already mentioned the idea of europe stepping up a little bit more. this is france's foreign minister,
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jean—noel barrot, talking to the bbc�*s laura kuenssberg on sunday. president macron previously didn't rule out putting troops on the ground. so can you see a day when french troops might be deployed in ukraine? what president macron said is that we should not set an express red lines. we should set a strategic ambiguity and not say what we ought or what we ought not to do. and this is the reason why we do not discard any option publicly. and again, in close cooperation with our allies, with the uk, with the europeans, with the us and with the ukrainians. we decide on what strategies to undertake. is everything, though potentially on the table? we will support ukraine as intensely and as long as necessary. why? because it is our security that is at stake. ambassador sullivan, do you see that as being inevitable that there will need to be european troops on the ground?
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i can't tell you. what i can tell you is what that's i agree completely with that statement about the need for, more caution in what we say publicly about what we in the west, we in the united states will and won't do. i've long held the view that politicians in particular say too much in public to attract attention, to get you know, to get noticed in the press. but some things we should continue to leave some, some ambiguity on, why we continue to have discussions about particular weapon systems in the media with leaks and so forth. so i would agree with that
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statement that you just played from the french government. when you say, though, that european nations need to do more, what specifically are you referring to? i didn't say more. i said there needs to be burden sharing. right. so that we need to look at what countries depending on the size of their economies, their defence budgets and so forth, so that it is not to address the criticism that trump has fairly made about some allies. you know, going back to the to support for nato and the commitment for 2% of gdp for defence budgets, but in particular focussed on on ukraine, that all nato allies are contributing and contributing in a fair way so that there is equitable burden sharing. are relations between russia and the us or the west at their lowest ever level in living memory? uh, so my living memory includes the cuban missile crisis.
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uh, it's certainly... ..our talking point when i was deputy secretary of state and when i arrived as ambassador in moscow, was that relations were as bad as they'd been in the post—cold war era. uh, i think we've broken through that barrier and descended even further. i think relations are as bad as they've been in in my lifetime, and i was born in 1959. ambassador sullivan, as a sort of final thought, if we look at this conflict and how people perceive it in america, what do you believe is at stake for the us? well, everyone is rightfully to be concerned about nuclear war, having said that, and by the way, the russians raise the threat of nuclear war all the time, including before the special military operation began on february 24th.
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with me personally as the us ambassador, i once said, if i so casually mention the threat of nuclear war, that my president would recall me, fire me, and on my way out the door tell me _ i needed to have my head examined. so this is a common, common tactic by the russian government. i think you've seen it played out with respect to the atacms, putin announces in september modifications to russian strategic nuclear doctrine, which after the atacms are approved, are then codified. my view is no matter what russia's what, no matter what there may be in writing on russia's nuclear weapons doctrine, uh, the notion that a piece of paper is going to stop vladimir putin from doing what he believes is in his and in his and in russia's interests.
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and if he thinks that's using a nuclear weapon, he will use it. having said that, i can't imagine a circumstance as we sit here today in which it's in russia's interest and putin's interest, looking — at it from his point of view to use a nuclear weapon, what it would do to russia, what it would do to his relationship with his dear friend in beijing. and i'm not sure that you know what i've what i've learned over time while i was in government from my colleagues in the us military. i don't know that there's a tactical advantage to the use of a nuclear weapon on the battlefield now in ukraine, other than the political shock of breaking the taboo since august 1945 of not using these weapons. so i think if that's the only result, positive result, it is not a positive for russia.
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so to the extent people are worried about world warthree, i believe they are playing into the fears that putin is trying to stoke, the advantages he has, the advantages that russia has over the united states, over the west, or that they can use against the west. abundant energy, oil and gas and nuclear weapons. the late senator mccain once said, you know, russia is a gas station with nuclear weapons. so what putin has he will use the way any good chekist would. and what he has is a nuclear arsenal, so he'll threaten to use it. but in my view, there isn't a rational reason... there isn't a rational benefit for him or for russia to gain from using nuclear weapons other than scaring people. and if you're scared, you know, then we've lost. ambassador sullivan, ukraine has outmanned and outgunned. definitely outmanned. winter is coming.
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it's grim. there's now all of this uncertainty. and they are worried about president trump. what he's going to do when he comes in. what would be your message to ukrainians at the moment? well, ukrainians have surprised me since, since the special military operation began. i attribute a lot of, you know, the conversation that we're having today about, you know, has the biden administration done enough? what's the trump administration going to do? there hasn't been leadership, particularly in the united states. and that's what's needed, not just, of course, the ukrainians have been getting, in my opinion, uh, heroic leadership by zelensky. and what's needed in the west is more leadership, particularly in washington. and i would extend that to to berlin. ukrainecasts from bbc news.
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hello. meteorologically speaking, saturday was the last day of autumn. it was bright enough across many eastern areas of the uk. in the west, though, we had thicker cloud and a bit of drizzle at times. wherever you were, though, it was very mild with temperatures six degrees above average in the highlands. achnagart seeing a high of 15 degrees. the average at this time of the year is nine. and these mild south—southwesterly winds continuing to blow a band of rain across from scotland and northern ireland, moving it into wales and western areas of england over the next few hours. these are the kind of temperatures you'll have to start your breezy sunday morning as our band of rain continues to push its way eastwards with time. now, behind that, actually, we should get some brighter weather, so sunny spells are in the forecast for western areas. there will be some scattered showers, though, at times, so not entirely dry. it will, however, continue to
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be very mild and for the first day of winter, temperatures could reach around 1a, 15, maybe even 16 degrees in the mildest spots. but that milder weather isn't going to hang around for very long because heading into monday, behind this weather front here, we get a flow of much colder northwesterly winds heading in and that will be dropping the temperatures across northern areas as we go through the course of monday. so, mild enough start to the day on monday for many areas. a band of rain pushes across northern england, reaches north wales and north midlands. behind that, sunshine comes out with some scattered showers. gusty winds through the irish sea and the north sea, reaching gale force at times and making it feel a little on the chilly side. temperatures not doing too badly across much of england and wales but through the afternoon, further northwards temperatures will be dropping through the afternoon and it will start to get colder and colder. and then, through monday night, that colder air surges its way southwards — a real turnaround in weather fortunes. we get a widespread frost, a much colder night on the cards. well, that takes us on into tuesday, and it's a dry, sunny start to the day,
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if cold for most of us. the exception is northern ireland, where we'll get this band of rain. the rain starts to move into that colder air and we start to see a little bit of snow on its leading edge, initially falling across parts of scotland. and it's across the hills of northern scotland that that lasts longest. could cause one or two issues but, eventually, milder air will mean that the snow all turns back to rain. and then, later in the week, yes, it is set to turn a good deal milder. with that milder weather comes thicker cloud and rain at times. that's your weather. bye— bye.
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she sorry down again live from washington. this is bbc news. protesters and police clash again in georgia. the country's president says she won't step down when her term ends, over the government's decision to suspend talks tojoin the eu. islamist rebels in syria, seize control of the second largest city aleppo, and are now sweeping south. two humanitarian groups say members of their staff have been killed in israeli airstrikes in gaza.
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i'm helena humphrey. good to have you with us. the pro—western president of georgia has told the bbc she'll stay in her post, amid a crisis over the government's decision to suspend accession talks with the european union. salome zourabichvili's term is due to end in two weeks' time. but she says she will not stand down because the current parliament is what she calls �*illegitimate�*. the ruling georgia dream party announced on thursday that it will put talks with the eu on hold until 2028. police used water cannon and tear gas against demonstrators who turned out in their thousands near the parliament building in the capital tbilisi for a third night running on saturday. police say 107 people have been arrested. our russia editor, steve rosenberg sent this report from tbilisi, and a warning — it contains distressing images. as night fell in tbilisi, they were building barricades using anything they could find.
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