' the national assembly. we saw the president escalating his rhetoric against the national assembly, and responding in kind, — assembly, and responding in kind, but_ assembly, and responding in kind, but nobody could have predicted that president it is past 1:30am here and most people — it is past 1:30am here and most people would have been in bed when _ people would have been in bed when the — people would have been in bed when the news broke. and then people. — when the news broke. and then people, there were dozens of people — people, there were dozens of people at the gate, but now

there — people at the gate, but now there are hundreds of people, so these — there are hundreds of people, so these people were glued to their— so these people were glued to their phone looking at every update _ their phone looking at every update and the videos. they are screaming — update and the videos. they are screaming here for this martial law to — screaming here for this martial law to be — screaming here for this martial law to be lifted. there was a fear — law to be lifted. there was a fear that _ law to be lifted. there was a fear that this might come to pass, — fear that this might come to pass, and that the president might— pass, and that the president might press the button. you have — might press the button. you have been talking about the law is being — have been talking about the law is being suspended, and technically there is no freedom of press, — technically there is no freedom of press, as of now, no freedom in terms — of press, as of now, no freedom in terms of— of press, as of now, no freedom in terms of the military coming to arrest— in terms of the military coming to arrest you and searchingly without — to arrest you and searchingly without needing a warrant, so there — without needing a warrant, so there had _ without needing a warrant, so there had been huge anxiety amongst the general public, and also take — amongst the general public, and also fake news that there might be a curfew. there has been a lot of— be a curfew. there has been a lot of confusion and a lot of

people _ lot of confusion and a lot of people have been glued to their phones — people have been glued to their phones all night. you people have been glued to their phones all night.— phones all night. you are there outside parliament, _ phones all night. you are there outside parliament, and - phones all night. you are there outside parliament, and you i outside parliament, and you look at the last time this was done, some sort of martial law, in 1979, so in your lifetime you have not experienced anything like this. everything is new in terms of what they have tried here overnight. exactly. this is the first time at nrartial— exactly. this is the first time at martial law was declared since — at martial law was declared since the democratisation, since — since the democratisation, since the _ since the democratisation, since the military dictatorship was brought down, and the last time, _ was brought down, and the last time, 1979, it only happened because _ time, 1979, it only happened because the dictator was assassinated and it lasted for two years and it was followed by a — two years and it was followed by a military coup. so this thing _ by a military coup. so this thing happening in a democracy, one of— thing happening in a democracy, one of the — thing happening in a democracy, one of the few full democracies in asia. — one of the few full democracies in asia. it — one of the few full democracies in asia, it is incredible. in

terms in asia, it is incredible. terms of in asia, it is incredible. in terms of people shouting, what are they actually shouting behind you?— are they actually shouting behind ou? , ., behind you? they are shouting, arrest seoul, _ behind you? they are shouting, arrest seoul, so _ behind you? they are shouting, arrest seoul, so these - behind you? they are shouting, arrest seoul, so these are - arrest seoul, so these are supporters of the main opposition party. —— arrest president _ opposition party. —— arrest president yoon suk yeol. asl president yoon suk yeol. as i was talking — president yoon suk yeol. as i was talking to _ president yoon suk yeol. as i was talking to jake, _ president yoon suk yeol. " i was talking to jake, the us deputy secretary of state has been talking, saying they are watching developments in south korea with grave concern. no surprise about that phrase because south korea is such an important ally of the us, isn't it? it important ally of the us, isn't it? , , important ally of the us, isn't it? y , ., ., it? it definitely is, one of the closest _ it? it definitely is, one of the closest us _ it? it definitely is, one of the closest us allies - it? it definitely is, one of the closest us allies in i it? it definitely is, one of. the closest us allies in asia, and the us attitude towards this is shaped by this close alliance. remember, the south korean military has been trained and almost indoctrinated by us values, since the creation of south

korea is a modern state. you mention something very important, this martial law has not occurred in south korea during the lifetime of most of the troops who are now serving. most of the troops who are called upon to enforce this were either small children or not even born the last time martial law would have been imposed, so this is a drastic departure from anything that most south koreans have ever experienced in their lives. we talked when we first spoke about the stunning thunderbolt nature of the declaration last night, and i was quoting the us deputy secretary of state, and us officials also saying they hope south korea follows the rule of law, and that is where we are at the moment, we are talking about hopes rather than

any sort of knowledge of what is likely to happen. that any sort of knowledge of what is likely to happen.— is likely to happen. that is correct. — is likely to happen. that is correct, but _ is likely to happen. that is correct, but let's - is likely to happen. that is correct, but let's put - is likely to happen. that is correct, but let's put this | correct, but let's put this into perspective, very few cases in asia and a few in other parts of the world, of a martial law in position, so where this has occurred in the past, like pakistan or thailand, it has been a military led effort, and president yoon suk yeol is not former military, not in the sense of a military dictator, and this is not something coming from the military, this is a civilian trying to use the military for his own political purposes. we have very few cases of that ever actually having been a successful outcome so the weight of history suggests this is not going to be a successful coup

on behalf of the president, essentially. is on behalf of the president, essentially.— essentially. is it clear how south korea _ essentially. is it clear how south korea navigates - essentially. is it clear how south korea navigates its| essentially. is it clear how - south korea navigates its way beyond this?— beyond this? the way that a military coop _ beyond this? the way that a military coup has _ beyond this? the way that a military coup has failed - beyond this? the way that a military coup has failed in i military coup has failed in other countries is typically when the military refuses to carry out the orders of whoever is giving the command, whether it is a top general or a recently retired general under the fig leaf of being a civilian, and when the military decides that its own troops are not going to fire on their brothers and cousins, whoever is in the street against them, they generally say we're not going to do this, and coup fails and i suspect that will happen here, because are the south korean troops going to fire on their citizens and families and friends? i think

thatis families and friends? i think that is not how it is going to end up. that is not how it is going to end u. ~ . end up. when you hear the president _ end up. when you hear the president in _ end up. when you hear the president in that _ end up. when you hear the| president in that statement talk about the threats from north korea as being the reason that he actually declared martial law, is there anything in that? we have no detail but could that detail emerge? i could that detail emerge? i don't think anyone believes that and i have not heard anyone say they truly believe a threat from north korea is what is behind this. north korea has not been particularly belligerent toward south korea in recent days and weeks and even the past year, and north korea is sending its crack troops to fight with vladimir putin in ukraine. if there is any evidence, it definitely has not come out and i don't think thatis not come out and i don't think that is anything other than a red herring. i that is anything other than a red herring-— red herring. i wonder if you would stay _

red herring. i wonder if you would stay with _ red herring. i wonder if you would stay with us. - red herring. i wonder if you would stay with us. i - red herring. i wonder if you would stay with us. i want. red herring. i wonder if you | would stay with us. i want to bring in another guest, edward howell, lecturer in international relations at the university of oxford. thanks forjoining us. it is a very fluid situation as we continue to see the live pictures from inside the parliament building and outside. the parliament voting that the move to martial law was invalid. we had that vote in the last 45 minutes. what is your take?- what is your take? this has really taken _ what is your take? this has really taken me _ what is your take? this has really taken me by - what is your take? this has| really taken me by surprise. the — really taken me by surprise. the first _ really taken me by surprise. the first of— really taken me by surprise. the first of all— really taken me by surprise. the first of all the _ really taken me by surprise. the first of all the decision i the first of all the decision from — the first of all the decision from president _ the first of all the decision from president yoon - the first of all the decision from president yoon suk. the first of all the decision i from president yoon suk yeol the first of all the decision - from president yoon suk yeol to impose — from president yoon suk yeol to impose martial— from president yoon suk yeol to impose martial law— from president yoon suk yeol to impose martial law was - from president yoon suk yeol to impose martial law was the - from president yoon suk yeol to impose martial law was the last i impose martial law was the last resort. — impose martial law was the last resort. one _ impose martial law was the last resort, one might— impose martial law was the last resort, one might say, - impose martial law was the last resort, one might say, and - impose martial law was the last resort, one might say, and he l resort, one might say, and he cited — resort, one might say, and he cited pro—north— resort, one might say, and he cited pro—north korean - resort, one might say, and he i cited pro—north korean factions that he — cited pro—north korean factions that he wants _ cited pro—north korean factions that he wants to _ cited pro—north korean factions that he wants to remove - cited pro—north korean factions that he wants to remove from l that he wants to remove from the country. _ that he wants to remove from the country. a _ that he wants to remove from the country, a not _ that he wants to remove from the country, a not so - that he wants to remove from the country, a not so subtle l the country, a not so subtle swipe — the country, a not so subtle swipe at _ the country, a not so subtle swipe at his _ the country, a not so subtle swipe at his opposition, - swipe at his opposition, perhaps. _ swipe at his opposition, perhaps. and— swipe at his opposition, perhaps, and what - swipe at his opposition, perhaps, and what we l swipe at his opposition, . perhaps, and what we are seeing, _

perhaps, and what we are seeing, and— perhaps, and what we are seeing, and we _ perhaps, and what we are seeing, and we know- perhaps, and what we are seeing, and we know thati perhaps, and what we are - seeing, and we know that both parties — seeing, and we know that both parties have _ seeing, and we know that both parties have voted _ seeing, and we know that both parties have voted to - seeing, and we know that both parties have voted to block - seeing, and we know that bothi parties have voted to block the law at — parties have voted to block the law at the _ parties have voted to block the law at the national— parties have voted to block the law at the national assembly, i law at the national assembly, this highlights— law at the national assembly, this highlights the _ law at the national assembly, this highlights the precariousi this highlights the precarious situation _ this highlights the precarious situation of— this highlights the precarious situation of president - this highlights the precarious situation of president yoon l this highlights the precarious . situation of president yoon suk yeol, _ situation of president yoon suk yeol, and — situation of president yoon suk yeol, and we _ situation of president yoon suk yeol, and we know— situation of president yoon suk yeol, and we know he - situation of president yoon suk yeol, and we know he has- situation of president yoon suk| yeol, and we know he has been situation of president yoon suk. yeol, and we know he has been a very— yeol, and we know he has been a very unpopular— yeol, and we know he has been a very unpopular president. - yeol, and we know he has been a very unpopular president. he - very unpopular president. he has been _ very unpopular president. he has been successful- very unpopular president. he has been successful in - very unpopular president. he has been successful in terms| very unpopular president. he . has been successful in terms of foreign — has been successful in terms of foreign policy— has been successful in terms of foreign policy especially - foreign policy especially towards _ foreign policy especially towardsjapan, - foreign policy especially towardsjapan, but - towards japan, but domestically, - towards japan, but domestically, his. towardsjapan, but - domestically, his agenda has not gone _ domestically, his agenda has not gone as— domestically, his agenda has not gone as he _ domestically, his agenda has not gone as he wants, - domestically, his agenda has not gone as he wants, and l domestically, his agenda has not gone as he wants, and in early— not gone as he wants, and in early november— not gone as he wants, and in early november his - not gone as he wants, and in early november his approval| early november his approval rating — early november his approval rating was— early november his approval rating was around _ early november his approval rating was around 17%. - early november his approval rating was around 17%. so i. rating was around 17%. so i think— rating was around 17%. so i think it _ rating was around 17%. so i think it is _ rating was around 17%. so i think it is very— rating was around 17%. so i think it is very important, i think it is very important, bearing _ think it is very important, bearing in— think it is very important, bearing in mind _ think it is very important, bearing in mind this- think it is very important, bearing in mind this is- think it is very important, bearing in mind this is a i think it is very important, i bearing in mind this is a very uncertain— bearing in mind this is a very uncertain time— bearing in mind this is a very uncertain time for— bearing in mind this is a very uncertain time for south - bearing in mind this is a very. uncertain time for south korea, and i_ uncertain time for south korea, and i would _ uncertain time for south korea, and i would not _ uncertain time for south korea, and i would not be _ uncertain time for south korea, and i would not be surprised . uncertain time for south korea, and i would not be surprised if. and i would not be surprised if the opposition— and i would not be surprised if the opposition used _ and i would not be surprised if the opposition used the - and i would not be surprised if the opposition used the fact . the opposition used the fact that— the opposition used the fact that he _ the opposition used the fact that he has— the opposition used the fact that he has imposed, - the opposition used the fact that he has imposed, calledi the opposition used the fact. that he has imposed, called for the position— that he has imposed, called for the position of— that he has imposed, called for the position of martial- that he has imposed, called for the position of martial law, - that he has imposed, called for the position of martial law, in. the position of martial law, in a very— the position of martial law, in a very unexpected _ the position of martial law, in a very unexpected way, - the position of martial law, in a very unexpected way, i - the position of martial law, in. a very unexpected way, i would not be — a very unexpected way, i would not be surprised _ a very unexpected way, i would not be surprised if— a very unexpected way, i would not be surprised if they- a very unexpected way, i would not be surprised if they use - not be surprised if they use these — not be surprised if they use these to— not be surprised if they use these to his _ not be surprised if they use these to his disadvantage. i not be surprised if they use i these to his disadvantage. we have these to his disadvantage. have pictures from inside the parliament. early on we know

that the president was trying not to let this happen because we saw the parliament building blocked off and we saw special forces entering the parliament and we saw helicopters landing on the building. he was trying to prevent any sort of vote that we have seen play out presumably. that we have seen play out presumably-— that we have seen play out presumably. that we have seen play out resumabl . , . ,. ., . presumably. yes. we know that he has been _ presumably. yes. we know that he has been mired _ presumably. yes. we know that he has been mired in _ presumably. yes. we know that he has been mired in scandal. he has been mired in scandal and _ he has been mired in scandal and there _ he has been mired in scandal and there has— he has been mired in scandal and there has been— he has been mired in scandal and there has been a - he has been mired in scandal and there has been a call- he has been mired in scandal and there has been a call for| and there has been a call for and there has been a call for an investigation— and there has been a call for an investigation into - and there has been a call for an investigation into his- and there has been a call forl an investigation into his wife, and her— an investigation into his wife, and her receipt _ an investigation into his wife, and her receipt of— an investigation into his wife, and her receipt of expensive i and her receipt of expensive consumer— and her receipt of expensive consumer goods, _ and her receipt of expensive consumer goods, and - and her receipt of expensive consumer goods, and her. consumer goods, and her involvement _ consumer goods, and her involvement in _ consumer goods, and her involvement in stock - consumer goods, and her| involvement in stock price manipulation— involvement in stock price manipulation as _ involvement in stock price manipulation as well, - involvement in stock price manipulation as well, and i involvement in stock price i manipulation as well, and we know— manipulation as well, and we know he _ manipulation as well, and we know he has— manipulation as well, and we know he has actively- manipulation as well, and we know he has actively tried - manipulation as well, and we know he has actively tried to| know he has actively tried to block — know he has actively tried to block these _ know he has actively tried to block these investigations. i know he has actively tried to i block these investigations. he has not — block these investigations. he has not made _ block these investigations. he has not made himself- block these investigations. he has not made himself a - block these investigations. he has not made himself a very. has not made himself a very popular— has not made himself a very popular figure _ has not made himself a very popular figure domestically. i has not made himself a very. popular figure domestically. is domestic— popular figure domestically. is domestic ratings— popular figure domestically. is domestic ratings were - popular figure domestically. is domestic ratings were never . domestic ratings were never very— domestic ratings were never very high— domestic ratings were never very high but— domestic ratings were never very high but they _ domestic ratings were never very high but they have - very high but they have plummeted _ very high but they have plummeted to - very high but they have plummeted to an - very high but they have i plummeted to an all—time very high but they have - plummeted to an all—time low —— his domestic _ plummeted to an all—time low —— his domestic ratings. _ plummeted to an all—time low —— his domestic ratings. what - his domestic ratings. what makes _

his domestic ratings. what makes this— his domestic ratings. what makes this occasion - his domestic ratings. what makes this occasion so - his domestic ratings. what. makes this occasion so sailing is that— makes this occasion so sailing is that we _ makes this occasion so sailing is that we have _ makes this occasion so sailing is that we have a _ makes this occasion so sailing is that we have a huge - makes this occasion so sailingi is that we have a huge foreign policy— is that we have a huge foreign policy issue _ is that we have a huge foreign policy issue ahead, _ is that we have a huge foreign policy issue ahead, north - is that we have a huge foreign i policy issue ahead, north korea sending — policy issue ahead, north korea sending troops _ policy issue ahead, north korea sending troops to _ policy issue ahead, north korea sending troops to russia, - policy issue ahead, north korea sending troops to russia, and l sending troops to russia, and south — sending troops to russia, and south korea's _ sending troops to russia, and south korea's role _ sending troops to russia, and south korea's role will- sending troops to russia, andi south korea's role will become increasingly— south korea's role will become increasingly important, - south korea's role will become increasingly important, we - south korea's role will become l increasingly important, we have relations— increasingly important, we have relations from _ increasingly important, we have relations from north _ increasingly important, we have relations from north korea - increasingly important, we have relations from north korea and i relations from north korea and south — relations from north korea and south korea _ relations from north korea and south korea reaching _ relations from north korea and south korea reaching an - south korea reaching an all-time _ south korea reaching an all—time low— south korea reaching an all—time low so - south korea reaching an all—time low so there i south korea reaching an all—time low so there is| south korea reaching ani all—time low so there is a south korea reaching an - all—time low so there is a real confluence _ all—time low so there is a real confluence of— all—time low so there is a real confluence of foreign - all—time low so there is a real confluence of foreign and - confluence of foreign and domestic— confluence of foreign and domestic factors - confluence of foreign and domestic factors here. i domestic factors here. interesting _ domestic factors here. interesting you - domestic factors here. interesting you end . domestic factors here. i interesting you end there because i was going to ask you a straightforward question, for people watching around the world, why is south korea so important? it world, why is south korea so important?— important? it is important because — important? it is important because it _ important? it is important because it is _ important? it is important because it is a _ important? it is important because it is a hallmark. important? it is important because it is a hallmark of important? it is important i because it is a hallmark of a country— because it is a hallmark of a country that _ because it is a hallmark of a country that has _ because it is a hallmark of a country that has developed i country that has developed rapidly— country that has developed rapidly into _ country that has developed rapidly into a _ country that has developed rapidly into a flourishing i rapidly into a flourishing democracy, _ rapidly into a flourishing democracy, fully- rapidly into a flourishing | democracy, fully fledged democracy, _ democracy, fully fledged democracy, and - democracy, fully fledged democracy, and south . democracy, fully fledged - democracy, and south korea has become — democracy, and south korea has become a — democracy, and south korea has become a key— democracy, and south korea has become a key provider— democracy, and south korea has become a key provider of - democracy, and south korea has become a key provider of global| become a key provider of global security, — become a key provider of global security, and _ become a key provider of global security. and a _ become a key provider of global security, and a key— become a key provider of global security, and a key partner- become a key provider of global security, and a key partner of. security, and a key partner of nato — security, and a key partner of nato and _ security, and a key partner of nato and a _ security, and a key partner of nato and a key _ security, and a key partner of nato and a key ally— security, and a key partner of nato and a key ally of- security, and a key partner of nato and a key ally of the - security, and a key partner of i nato and a key ally of the west and a _ nato and a key ally of the west and a key— nato and a key ally of the west and a key partner— nato and a key ally of the west and a key partner of— nato and a key ally of the west and a key partner of the - nato and a key ally of the west and a key partner of the uk- nato and a key ally of the west

and a key partner of the uk asi and a key partner of the uk as well— and a key partner of the uk as well as— and a key partner of the uk as well as an _ and a key partner of the uk as well as an economic— and a key partner of the uk as well as an economic partner, i well as an economic partner, but what _ well as an economic partner, but what the _ well as an economic partner, but what the events - well as an economic partner, | but what the events highlight guite — but what the events highlight quite clearly _ but what the events highlight quite clearly is _ but what the events highlight quite clearly is that _ but what the events highlight quite clearly is that any- quite clearly is that any country _ quite clearly is that any country is _ quite clearly is that any country is vulnerable . quite clearly is that anyi country is vulnerable to quite clearly is that any- country is vulnerable to shocks and we — country is vulnerable to shocks and we see _ country is vulnerable to shocks and we see this _ country is vulnerable to shocks and we see this here _ country is vulnerable to shocks and we see this here in- country is vulnerable to shocks and we see this here in the - and we see this here in the case — and we see this here in the case of— and we see this here in the case of south _ and we see this here in the case of south korea. - and we see this here in the case of south korea. i- and we see this here in the. case of south korea. i would like — case of south korea. i would like to — case of south korea. i would like to point— case of south korea. i would like to point out _ case of south korea. i would like to point out that - case of south korea. i would like to point out that it - case of south korea. i would like to point out that it has l like to point out that it has not — like to point out that it has not been _ like to point out that it has not been immune - like to point out that it has not been immune to- like to point out that it has i not been immune to protests like to point out that it has - not been immune to protests in the past. — not been immune to protests in the past, ranging _ not been immune to protests in the past, ranging from - the past, ranging from walk—outs _ the past, ranging from walk—outs of _ 1512