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tv   Newsnight  BBC News  December 5, 2024 10:30pm-11:01pm GMT

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eric's 100 bitcoin is now worth $10 million. around £8 million. but it's not been a smooth ride, anything but. have a look at this. it was worth next to nothing for years, then it started rising, and then basically gets very volatile. if you bought in 2022 it fell 50% very, very quickly, very uncomfortable. but look, it recovered and here it's risen 50% since donald trump, a big advocate of bitcoin and cryptocurrency, won the us election, and he's proposed other bitcoin fans to key financial positions in the us government. so what is bitcoin? well, for a start there are no physical coins or notes. each coin or fraction of a coin is basically a computer file that you keep in an electronic wallet, accessible via a device like a phone. bitcoins are created when powerful computers solve complex mathematical problems and are rewarded with bitcoin, which they can keep or sell. this process is called mining.
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the bitcoin founders set a maximum of 21 million bitcoins that will ever exist, and they get harder and harder to obtain, so like gold there is a finite supply. and bitcoin can be transferred anonymously and internationally, meaning it works outside the usual regulated banking system. we don't know where it's necessarily going to go next... for some that's part of the appeal. but it's also a risk. some people have made money. a lot of people have lost money over the years. people have to make up their own minds, but they've got to be aware and if you want to continue watching the bbc news at ten, please turn over to bbc one or you can watch on iplayer. next, it's newsnight. to judge his government on come the next election. but if they're not met, is he setting up the civil service to take the blame? and french president emmanual macron effectively labels his opponents as enemies of the state, 2a hours after they turfed
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out his prime minister. hello and welcome to newsnight, the home of insights and interviews. 0ur panel tonight, the educationalist and political historian sir anthony seldon, and deputy editor of the house magazine, sienna rodgers. first tonight, another round of labour's government as game of bingo. keir starmer has added to his five missions, his six first steps, seven pillars of growth and his three foundations with six new milestones. they're effectively the targets on the economy and public services that he'd like to bejudged on by the end of the parliament. but it wasn't just a scorecard for us, the voters, it was also
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a challenge to the civil service. nick. you have brought back a prop. this is it. plan you have brought back a prop. this is it- plan for— you have brought back a prop. “113 is it. plan for change, milestones permission led government, and it is a variable paul wray of missions —— veritable collection of missions and milestones, but there's a feeling it is a bit confused, but the wealthy —— overwhelming feeling in government is that they are pleased with keir starmerfor government is that they are pleased with keir starmer for setting up what they've achieved so far, like gb energy, and what he would like to achieve, like raising living standards, and tackling the nhs backlog. the prime minister in that speech said this is going to be difficult, it is tough for them to achieve this and he talked about the need to rewire the entire workings of the british state and it was interesting that the ever cautious keir starmer expressed strong frustration with the civil service.
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i don't think there's a swamp to be drained here, but i do think that too many people in whitehall are comfortable in the tepid bath of managed decline. not because it's easy, but because it's hard. it is interesting, in a column in the times tomorrow, patrick mcguire, who is very well connected with the keir starmer administration, picks up keir starmer administration, picks up on that and says, can you imagine what would have happened if boris johnson had use that language against the civil service? shadow breaks its victory would have had strong words to say about that, none other than keir starmer —— the shadow brexit secretary. we other than keir starmer -- the shadow brexit secretary. we will have more _ shadow brexit secretary. we will have more on — shadow brexit secretary. we will have more on that _ shadow brexit secretary. we will have more on that later. - earlier tonight, i spoke
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to the chair of the labour party and cabinet office minister ellie reeves. i asked her whether keir starmer was deliberately making an explicit criticism of the civil service in his comments today. it's about getting out of that sort of siloed way of working, speaking to people across the country, and look, you know, being as efficient as we possibly can as well, particularly in the current fiscal circumstances. so it is a different way of working, and it's an ambitious way of working. i think that's reflected in the ambitious milestones that we set out today. we'll talk about them in a second. but dave penman, who's the general secretary of the civil servants union, the fda, he posted on x tonight saying that civil servants are tired of chaotic political leadership and sick of being scapegoated for the failures of ministers. how can you reassure dave penman tonight that you're not attacking his members? well, i've worked with some fantastic civil servants over the last few months, particularly on mission delivery. but i think it is right that there is a challenge.
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you know, we do need to get out of whitehall and be speaking to the nations and regions. we do need to be doing things differently. it's a mission driven government. it's about working across departments to be the best that we possibly can. and that is a change. i'm going to read you a quote. "there are many brilliant people in the civil service and politics, but there are also some profound problems at the core of how the british state makes decisions." do you agree with that statement? look, i'm not going to get into sort of, you know, the statements. what i would say is i've worked with some brilliant civil servants in the last couple of months, but this is a mission driven government. it's something that's not been done before. and that involves whitehall getting behind that, getting out of silos and making sure that we are delivering, whether it's the 13,000 more police on the streets, children being ready to learn when they start school, getting those 1.5 million homes built. these are hugely ambitious targets and we need to be able to rise to that challenge. and that was a very good swerve,
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because that quote was actually from dominic cummings. i thought it might be. and you wouldn't want to be associated with his way of thinking, but do you think maybe he was on to something because he wanted to smash the machine? you maybe don't want to smash it... no, it's not about smashing the machine. it's about making sure that in government we are delivering for all parts of the country. we had the appointment this week of a new cabinet secretary, sir chris wormald, who's a whitehall veteran. i mean, if you wanted to shake things up and do things differently, shouldn't you have appointed somebody who's not been in the system their whole professional life? well, i think it's important to have experience as well, and i really welcome his appointment. we had cabinet office questions today in the house, and i congratulated him on his appointment. i think it's a really good thing. he's got a lot of experience to bring to the table. so these missions, then, how did you actually go about deciding that these were the metrics you were going to aim for? because there's presumably a thousand different targets you could have picked. so with these milestones today, it's sort of the next phase of mission driven government.
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and i think it's important to set out these sort of areas of focus. and i think they're things that people really care about. when i speak to constituents, they're often concerned about crime and anti—social behaviour. so the idea of having a named police officer for their community, i think is really important for people up and down communities across the country. nhs waiting lists, you know, too many people are waiting far too long to get hip replacements, knee replacements, living in pain, not being able to work, not being able to enjoy their lives to the full. i think it's a really important thing for the public. but on the nhs pledge, i mean, ok, that will help somebody who's waiting for a hip replacement, but it won't help anyone see a gp any quicker. isn't there a danger that that specific target for the 18 weeks then means that people in the nhs focus on that to the detriment of other things that people care about? i don't think so, because i think
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these things can sort of work hand in hand. if you're constantly going to the gp because you're in pain, because you haven't had your operation, you know, that's not great for gp surgeries. if you're presenting to a&e because you can't get your operation, then that's not good either. so actually, i think these things do work together. i'm just thinking back tojune, so in the heat of the general election and keir starmer was on a podcast with gary neville. and he said we're going to be ready for government on day one, but why has it taken 154 days to come up with this plan for change? the work started on this back injuly. this is the next part of mission driven government. and you sort of think about those first steps. we've already started the work to recruit the 6,500 more teachers. we've already laid the groundwork for gb energy. we've already set up border command. so this is sort of the next phase of that and work started for this back injuly. but i think it's right that we sort of take our time and get things right.
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we have these ambitious targets and we pursue them with every lever of government. well, you say ambitious, but one of the economy targets, sorry, milestones, is to increase disposable household income. the office for budget responsibility says they predict that's going to happen anyway. it's going to increase by an average of half a percent every year for the next five years. it's not ambitious to sign up to something that's probably going to happen anyway. but, you know, we want people to feel better off and that's what that milestone is all about. people are still feeling the cost of living crisis. they're still paying more in their mortgages after that liz truss mini—budget that crashed the economy and sent interest rates spiralling. they're still paying more in their food shops than they were a couple of years ago. so we want people to feel better off in every part of the country. and that i think is what we'll be judged on. and civil servants watching this tonight, they can sleep soundly tonight knowing that you and them are on the same side? look, there are civil servants that do brilliant work. just last week, i was visiting
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the cabinet office's second headquarters in glasgow, meeting with brilliant civil servants up there. there are also some fantastic people in whitehall that i've had the privilege of working with over the last couple of months as well. which is why it's weird that keir starmer seems to suggest they weren't doing a good job. but we need to make sure that people are being the best that they possibly can, get out of siloed working and make sure that we can achieve this ambition for our country. ellie reeves, thank you. that was a bit earlier. you heard me reading out one of his social media posts, now we can hear from the man himself, dave penman, general secretary of the union for senior civil servants, the fda. were you in a tepid bath this morning listening to keir starmer? i morning listening to keir starmer? i was in quite warm water afterwards, talking to civil servants and their reaction. ~ . . talking to civil servants and their reaction-_ i _ talking to civil servants and their reaction._ i don't - talking to civil servants and their. reaction._ i don't think reaction. which was? i don't think the prime minister _ reaction. which was? i don't think the prime minister realises - reaction. which was? i don't think the prime minister realises how . the prime minister realises how damaging his words are, and i was talking to civil servants about the challenges they face, they feel a
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sense of betrayal, they were told this was going to be a different government, ministers said they were not going to be like the previous administration, we have got your back, and five months intimate we have the language that is being used similar to donald trump. drain the swamp. he similar to donald trump. drain the swam -. similar to donald trump. drain the swam. �* ., similar to donald trump. drain the swam, .,, �* ., ., swamp. he said he wasn't going to drain the swamp. _ swamp. he said he wasn't going to drain the swamp. he _ swamp. he said he wasn't going to drain the swamp. he said - swamp. he said he wasn't going to drain the swamp. he said he - swamp. he said he wasn't going to | drain the swamp. he said he wasn't auoin to drain the swamp. he said he wasn't going to drain _ drain the swamp. he said he wasn't going to drain the swamp _ drain the swamp. he said he wasn't going to drain the swamp but... - drain the swamp. he said he wasn't| going to drain the swamp but... and why would you invoke that language when you talk about the civil service question but that is astonishing.— astonishing. what is the consequence? _ astonishing. what is the consequence? the - astonishing. what is the | consequence? the prime astonishing. what is the - consequence? the prime minister astonishing. what is the _ consequence? the prime minister is the leader and _ consequence? the prime minister is the leader and he _ consequence? the prime minister is the leader and he is _ consequence? the prime minister is the leader and he is the _ consequence? the prime minister is the leader and he is the minister - the leader and he is the minister for the civil service and if you want to do the things that eddie reeves talked about, about reforming public services, which civil servants want to do as well, you have got to bring them with you, thatis have got to bring them with you, that is what good leaders do, and he could have spoken about the incredible work the civil service does, and simon case highlighted eight individual civil servants from people working injob eight individual civil servants from people working in job centres to people working in job centres to people doing other incredible work,
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keir starmer could have talked about that, but he could have said, we need more, we need to do things differently and we need to take it with me, but he didn't do that, and he talked about the tepid bath of managed decline and that is damaging to hear that from the prime minister. to hear that from the prime minister-— to hear that from the prime minister. ,, ., , ., minister. simon case is now the cabinet secretary. _ minister. simon case is now the cabinet secretary. listening - minister. simon case is now the cabinet secretary. listening to i cabinet secretary. listening to ellie reeves, she wanted to dampen things down, is she trying to make a peace offering? i things down, is she trying to make a peace offering?— peace offering? i don't know, but there are cabinet _ peace offering? i don't know, but there are cabinet ministers - peace offering? i don't know, but - there are cabinet ministers tomorrow who will be walking into government buildings and they will be looking at civil servants and they will be looking back at them and they are saying, and by the one who is enjoying a tepid bath of managed decline? —— am i the one. cabinet ministers have got to work with civil servants and they have got to repair the damage that has been done by the prime minister. but sometimes the civil service _ by the prime minister. but sometimes the civil service can _ by the prime minister. but sometimes the civil service can be _ by the prime minister. but sometimes the civil service can be a _ by the prime minister. but sometimes the civil service can be a bit _ the civil service can be a bit sclerotic? how many prime ministers
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have tried to get things done but things take too long? {hail have tried to get things done but things take too long? civil servants are frustrated _ things take too long? civil servants are frustrated with _ things take too long? civil servants are frustrated with that _ things take too long? civil servants are frustrated with that and - things take too long? civil servants are frustrated with that and there l are frustrated with that and there are frustrated with that and there are many reasons for that, an institution of 500,000 people, and it is not even to control its own destiny, it requires ministers to make decisions to allow it to do things, so if you want to look at productivity, there are many reasons why that has declined, and most government departments have had ten different cabinet ministers in the last decade, there has not been clear to dot adopt but theirjob is to adapt. they have also got to keep things going on they are trying to get things done but they do not have ministers signing things off and ministers signing things off and ministers change. a lot of reasons why things do not go well. anthony? it was a huge — why things do not go well. anthony? it was a huge mistake. _ why things do not go well. anthony? it was a huge mistake. it _ why things do not go well. anthony? it was a huge mistake. it is - why things do not go well. anthony? it was a huge mistake. it is not - it was a huge mistake. it is not what _ it was a huge mistake. it is not what a — it was a huge mistake. it is not what a leader does and you have got to ask_ what a leader does and you have got to ask questions, does keir starmer have the _ to ask questions, does keir starmer have the instinctive sense and sense of poetry _ have the instinctive sense and sense of poetry to — have the instinctive sense and sense of poetry to understand what a leader— of poetry to understand what a leader does? you do not slack off
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your own — leader does? you do not slack off your own people. that is what the tories _ your own people. that is what the tories from — your own people. that is what the tories from boris johnson onwards did but— tories from boris johnson onwards did but without reforming them, and the civil_ did but without reforming them, and the civil service needs huge reform, it hasnt— the civil service needs huge reform, it hasn't been reformed for far too long. _ it hasn't been reformed for far too long. it _ it hasn't been reformed for far too long, it needs much more market discipline. — long, it needs much more market discipline, he needs to be far more focused _ discipline, he needs to be far more focused driven, and civil servants know _ focused driven, and civil servants know that, — focused driven, and civil servants know that, but it needs leadership, and another mistake than keir starmer, _ and another mistake than keir starmer, why did you wait for so long _ starmer, why did you wait for so long before appointing the new head of the _ long before appointing the new head of the civil_ long before appointing the new head of the civil service? —— another mistake — of the civil service? —— another mistake from keir starmer. no prime minister— mistake from keir starmer. no prime minister in _ mistake from keir starmer. no prime minister in modern power has come into number— minister in modern power has come into numberten so minister in modern power has come into number ten so unprepared for office _ into number ten so unprepared for office in_ into number ten so unprepared for office in terms of the clarity about what _ office in terms of the clarity about what he _ office in terms of the clarity about what he wants to do and the people around _ what he wants to do and the people around him — what he wants to do and the people around him and the prime minister is only as good — around him and the prime minister is only as good as the top staff at number— only as good as the top staff at number ten, only as good as the top staff at numberten, tony blair only as good as the top staff at number ten, tony blair knew that, gordon— number ten, tony blair knew that, gordon brown, david cameron, they knew_ gordon brown, david cameron, they knew that, _ gordon brown, david cameron, they knew that, but keir starmer did not listen _ knew that, but keir starmer did not listen to— knew that, but keir starmer did not listen to people like the institute for government who said this is how you do— for government who said this is how
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you do it _ for government who said this is how you do it. being prime minister is not difficult. you do it. being prime minister is not difficult-— you do it. being prime minister is not difficult.- it _ you do it. being prime minister is not difficult.- it really - you do it. being prime minister is not difficult.- it really is l not difficult. really? it really is not difficult. really? it really is not difficult. _ not difficult. really? it really is not difficult, but _ not difficult. really? it really is not difficult, but the _ not difficult. really? it really is not difficult, but the way - not difficult. really? it really is not difficult, but the way they l not difficult, but the way they choose — not difficult, but the way they choose to do it makes it difficult. there _ choose to do it makes it difficult. there are — choose to do it makes it difficult. there are simple things the prime minister— there are simple things the prime minister needs to do, and another one is— minister needs to do, and another one is getting the clear narrative, the clear— one is getting the clear narrative, the clear sense about what the premiership is all about, and the prime _ premiership is all about, and the prime minister then has to stay on the bridge. — prime minister then has to stay on the bridge, and they get off the bridge — the bridge, and they get off the bridge and go down into the engine room: _ bridge and go down into the engine room. and — bridge and go down into the engine room, and there is a brawl in the bar, _ room, and there is a brawl in the bar. they— room, and there is a brawl in the bar, they cannot understand the difference between the important and the urgent, they throw themselves into the _ the urgent, they throw themselves into the urgent and they lose the sight _ into the urgent and they lose the sight of the important and what the basic strategy is, they are the strategists and they need to do that _ have you heard any gory stories from ministers about the civil service not doing what they wanted? this is somethin: not doing what they wanted? this is something ministers _ not doing what they wanted? this is something ministers have _ not doing what they wanted? this is something ministers have been - something ministers have been talking about privately. in
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westminster they know this, on one of our podcasts, chris actually said on the record he have found that, since last being a government minister, the civil servants have become much more timid, and he was frustrated by that. what become much more timid, and he was frustrated by that.— frustrated by that. what did he want them to do? — frustrated by that. what did he want them to do? he _ frustrated by that. what did he want them to do? he didn't _ frustrated by that. what did he want them to do? he didn't specify, - frustrated by that. what did he want them to do? he didn't specify, but l them to do? he didn't specify, but renerall them to do? he didn't specify, but generally there — them to do? he didn't specify, but generally there has _ them to do? he didn't specify, but generally there has been - them to do? he didn't specify, but generally there has been a - generally there has been a frustration. dave suggested perhaps they were trying to appeal to reform voters, the dominic cummings like sentiment about whitehall. but i think actually he is reflecting what ministers have told him. but i think why we are in this situation is fundamentally, keir starmer has decided to do a speech about something that is really quite nerdy. he is trying to something that is really quite nerdy. he i
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