translation: now we can breathe much easier and we are _ hoping for better days. the regime was pressuring us. they refused to set us free. all nations should support i an inclusive and transparent process and refrain - from interference and make clear that the united states will recognise and fully - support a future syrian. government that results from this process. joining me tonight are former mp for the conservative party and cabinet minister and political commentator and columnist for msnbc julio ricardo varela. at evening and a warm welcome to the programme.

joe biden is in the twilight of his presidency, but suddenly out of years of chaos and war, comes an historic opportunity in the middle east. his brother is weakened, iran and russia retreating, assad gone and a new power dynamic in damascus. there may only be a0 days left but washington believes there is time enought to put biden�*s stamp on this new regional order. what it does underlines it the radically different approaches the two presidents take to foreign policy. trump has already signalled his intentions. "syria is a mess, not our friend," he wrote on truth social over the weekend, "the united states should have nothing to do with it." biden sees it differently. since the weekend us forces have been bombing islamic state targets, the national security chief jake sullivan is being sent to israel to consult and by all account there is a scramble under way in washington to to see if, and how, and when they can

remove hts from the us list of banned terror groups. a move that would surely be coordinated with the europeans. the man who leads the group has two identities. whether he goes by ahmed al—sharaa or by his nom de guerre, abu mohammed al—jolani, may well be a key indicator of the direction syria's future may take. at a briefing in washington, the state department spokesman, matthew miller, outlined the conditions the us would want to see before recognising any transition government. in these calls, the secretary is — the points he made in a statement he released earlier today. the united states fully supports a syrian lead to an syrian owned political transition that leads to credible, inclusive and nonsectarian governments. he is also outlined several principles we believe should be upheld during the transition process in formation of a new government. respect for the rights of minorities, facilitation of humanitarian assistance, the prevention of syria as being used as a base for terrorism or posing

a threat to its neighbours. securing and safely destroying any chemical weapon stockpiles. the secretary has also reiterated in these conversations that all nations should support an inclusive and transparent process and refrain from interference and make clear that the united states will recognise and fully support a future syrian government that results from this process. it's an important moment to take stock. let me start with the statement we have had today, a new prime minister in damascus, seemingly a cabinet of ministers, are you reassured by what you are seeing? i reassured by what you are seeinu ? . reassured by what you are seein ? ., ., ,, reassured by what you are seein? ., ., ,, _ seeing? i am reassured by the rhetoric, but _ seeing? i am reassured by the rhetoric, but the _ seeing? i am reassured by the rhetoric, but the rhetoric - rhetoric, but the rhetoric about tolerance about no revenge, about inclusiveness,

revolution for all syrians, i am a bit concerned and forgive me for being too cynical, but all of us talk about the rebels have appointed a new prime minister, the rebels did not appoint mohammed brashear. it was mohammed who appointed a functionary... who ran it live, a province where he was in charge in 2017 i'm concerned with meeting with the prime minister, the assad prime minister, the assad prime minister and he says we are going to bring the function and the governors and the managers to run the new government. it

does not make sense to me. where are the other rebels? where are the other rebels? where is the syrian national army? where are the southern operation... where are the other communities? you know, i like the rhetoric, but it seems to me that he's running the show, appointing his own functionary, his positioning to be the new leader of syria, yet he was not appointed by anyone, and he must be the most powerful militarily, but surely it is not as powerful as the other rebels. they are a 2030 faction. i'm not trying to really sound pessimistic and critical, ijust want really sound pessimistic and critical, i just want to make sure that various voices of

opposition, including the centrists, the nationalists, the pluralistic are represented in the new transitional government.— in the new transitional covernment. ., , , government. that was broadly the message _ government. that was broadly the message from _ government. that was broadly the message from the - government. that was broadly the message from the us - government. that was broadlyl the message from the us state department today said it will recognise and fully support the future syrian government as long as it emerges from a credible inclusive process and prevent syria being used as a base for terrorism. that is a high barfrom where base for terrorism. that is a high bar from where we are right now. someone say after the experience of iraq, if you don't support a new government quickly, all the ills that have been spelt out will be the result. it is inevitable if you have a vacuum.— result. it is inevitable if you have a vacuum. forgive me for bein: have a vacuum. forgive me for being too _ have a vacuum. forgive me for being too cynical. _ have a vacuum. forgive me for being too cynical. the - have a vacuum. forgive me for being too cynical. the us - have a vacuum. forgive me for being too cynical. the us doesl being too cynical. the us does not have hardly any leverage in syria. in fact, the us does not really have a direct channel to the various rebels. it works through turkey, and this is not my theory, it is been made very

clear that they are using turkey as a channel to communicate with the islamist opposition. we know that turkey has its own interests. turkey is really what i call the kingmaker in all of this. it has supported and empowered the opposition. it has also very much interest in trying its own opposition elements and now attacking the kurdish elements on the iraqi syrian border. so, yes, i think the american rhetoric is fine, but at the end of the day, what i am really talking about, at the end of the day, i am talking about the social balance of power inside syria itself. we have between 20—30 opposition factions. have you heard anything from the other opposition? i am talking about... i am talking about... where is everyone else? where

are the various voices? i'm not the only one asking this question. i asked this question because i want for the new syria to be more inclusive, to be more tolerant, to have a rational government, to represent all aspects of syrian society, notjust one society, not just one particular aspect society, notjust one particular aspect of the opposition.— particular aspect of the opposition. particular aspect of the o- osition. �*, , ., opposition. let's bring in our -anel opposition. let's bring in our met it _ opposition. let's bring in our panel. it must _ opposition. let's bring in our panel. it must be _ opposition. let's bring in our panel. it must be an - opposition. let's bring in our. panel. it must be an immense frustration, a man likejoe biden who spent so much of his career spent on foreign policy, to see this opportunity in front of him and to remold the middle east, and yet havejust 40 middle east, and yet havejust a0 days to put his thumbprint on that. knowing that whatever he does put in place might very quickly be unraveled by donald trump. quickly be unraveled by donald trum. ~ , , quickly be unraveled by donald trum. , ~ trump. absolutely. when you look at- -- _ trump. absolutely. when you look at... we _ trump. absolutely. when you look at... we are _ trump. absolutely. when you look at... we are talking - trump. absolutely. when you | look at... we are talking about a regime — look at... we are talking about a regime that has been around for 50 — a regime that has been around for 50 years. it was every

american _ for 50 years. it was every american knows what syria was and is _ american knows what syria was and is and _ american knows what syria was and is and for someone like joe biden, — and is and for someone like joe biden, who earned his stripes and his— biden, who earned his stripes and his teeth in this type of middle _ and his teeth in this type of middle east policy, this is definitely a moment. now, middle east policy, this is definitelya moment. now, in 40 days, _ definitelya moment. now, in 40 days, that — definitelya moment. now, in 40 days, that is going to be a humongous task for the biden administration and when you have — administration and when you have the _ administration and when you have the president—elect, who is dictating policy on social media _ is dictating policy on social media and basically says syria is not — media and basically says syria is not our— media and basically says syria is not our problem and we are going — is not our problem and we are going to — is not our problem and we are going to be isolationists, what does _ going to be isolationists, what does that mean? what does that mean _ does that mean? what does that mean 40 — does that mean? what does that mean 40 days from now that the united _ mean 40 days from now that the united states will become an isolationist country? it is a rent— isolationist country? it is a real challenge for biden, but there — real challenge for biden, but there is— real challenge for biden, but there is something about biden that i— there is something about biden that i ani — there is something about biden that i am not going to discount. and if there is any sort — discount. and if there is any sort of. _ discount. and if there is any sort of, "i'm leaving and i'm dropping _ sort of, "i'm leaving and i'm dropping my microphone as i leave". — dropping my microphone as i leave", this could be a defining moment for him. so, i

do think— defining moment for him. so, i do think given his track record and given— do think given his track record and given who he is as a politician and as a leader, i would _ politician and as a leader, i would expect the biden administration to do everything it can _ administration to do everything it can to— administration to do everything it can to sort of advance whatever the american interests are, although i do agree i don't _ are, although i do agree i don't know if american influences that strong in a place _ influences that strong in a place like syria.— place like syria. certainly european _ place like syria. certainly european influence - place like syria. certainly european influence isn'tl place like syria. certainly . european influence isn't that strong and they will of course wait for the american elite. you were, as developer and secretary, you were the person that began and started to run the uk response to the refugee crisis after 2013. what concerns do you have? because as far as was just outlined, there are all sorts of risks and insecurities here. donald trump might want to walk away from it, but for europe, there is another potential refugee

crisis that could emerge from this. it's really early on to say how this is going to work out, but i think the challenges that stability has to ultimately come from within syria, and so what we have had is an autocrat finally having to relinquish his control, but it's clear whether syria can find its way through these different factions that have been coming together as an overall rebel fighting force to take over syria. i think interestingly, the political stability, that will become a bit clearer over the coming weeks, there is an interim prime minister up until march, but as has been said, this is somebody who is running a piece of syria. you know, one of the provinces, so i think it remains to be seen whether that person can really deliver on that caretaker prime minister

role, you need economic stability. if you can have it in terms of the broader economy and public services remaining able to be run, there is some interim humanitarian support, but all of the time i spent supporting syrian refugees, millions of them in lebanon, in turkey, injordan, millions of them in lebanon, in turkey, in jordan,_ turkey, in jordan, time after time, turkey, in jordan, time after time. all _ turkey, in jordan, time after time. all of _ turkey, in jordan, time after time, all of them _ turkey, in jordan, time after time, all of them wanted - turkey, in jordan, time after time, all of them wanted to | turkey, in jordan, time after l time, all of them wanted to go home — time, all of them wanted to go home in— time, all of them wanted to go home in fact, _ time, all of them wanted to go home. in fact, many— time, all of them wanted to go home. in fact, many of - time, all of them wanted to go home. in fact, many of the - home. in fact, many of the millions— home. in fact, many of the millions stayed _ home. in fact, many of the millions stayed on - home. in fact, many of the millions stayed on the - home. in fact, many of the . millions stayed on the border with— millions stayed on the border with syria _ millions stayed on the border with syria really _ millions stayed on the border with syria really for _ millions stayed on the border with syria really for years - with syria really for years until— with syria really for years until they _ with syria really for years until they lost _ with syria really for years until they lost hope, - with syria really for years - until they lost hope, actually of ever — until they lost hope, actually of ever being _ until they lost hope, actually of ever being able _ until they lost hope, actually of ever being able to- until they lost hope, actually of ever being able to go- until they lost hope, actuallyj of ever being able to go back under— of ever being able to go back under assad _ of ever being able to go back under assad full— of ever being able to go back under assad full stuff- of ever being able to go back under assad full stuff that i of ever being able to go back. under assad full stuff that was untenable _ under assad full stuff that was untenable for _ under assad full stuff that was untenable for many _ under assad full stuff that was untenable for many of - under assad full stuff that was untenable for many of them. if there _ untenable for many of them. if there is— untenable for many of them. if there is the _ untenable for many of them. if there is the prospect _ untenable for many of them. if there is the prospect of - untenable for many of them. if there is the prospect of the - there is the prospect of the political— there is the prospect of the political and _ there is the prospect of the political and economic- political and economic stability. _ political and economic stability, actually - political and economicl stability, actually come political and economic. stability, actually come i think— stability, actually come i think you _ stability, actually come i think you may— stability, actually come i think you may well- stability, actually come i think you may well see i stability, actually come i- think you may well see many syrians— think you may well see many syrians choose _ think you may well see many syrians choose to _ think you may well see many syrians choose to go - think you may well see many syrians choose to go home . think you may well see many syrians choose to go home ifj syrians choose to go home if they— syrians choose to go home if they can _ syrians choose to go home if they can. and _ syrians choose to go home if they can. and that's - syrians choose to go home if they can. and that's why - syrians choose to go home if they can. and that's why the | they can. and that's why the coming _ they can. and that's why the coming weeks _ they can. and that's why the coming weeks and _ they can. and that's why the coming weeks and months l they can. and that's why the i coming weeks and months are they can. and that's why the - coming weeks and months are so important — coming weeks and months are so important because _ coming weeks and months are so important because they - coming weeks and months are so important because they will - coming weeks and months are so important because they will be i important because they will be looking — important because they will be looking back— important because they will be looking back to _ important because they will be looking back to their _ important because they will bej looking back to their homeland to see — looking back to their homeland to see whether— looking back to their homeland to see whether they _ looking back to their homeland to see whether they have - looking back to their homeland to see whether they have a - to see whether they have a future _ to see whether they have a future there, _ to see whether they have a future there, but _ future there, but overwhelmingly, j future there, but - overwhelmingly, that is future there, but _

overwhelmingly, that is what syrians — overwhelmingly, that is what syrians who _ overwhelmingly, that is what syrians who are _ overwhelmingly, that is what syrians who are refugees - overwhelmingly, that is what . syrians who are refugees want. and in— syrians who are refugees want. and in the _ syrians who are refugees want. and in the meantime, - syrians who are refugees want. and in the meantime, an- and in the meantime, an internet _ and in the meantime, an internet -- _ and in the meantime, an internet —— and - and in the meantime, an internet —— and the - internet —— and the international- internet —— and the - international committee one internet —— and the _ international committee one of the things— international committee one of the things i— international committee one of the things i really— international committee one of the things i really focused - international committee one of the things i really focused on. the things i really focused on was education _ the things i really focused on was education of _ the things i really focused on was education of the - the things i really focused on was education of the syrian i was education of the syrian refugee _ was education of the syrian refugee children, _ was education of the syrian refugee children, because, | was education of the syrian . refugee children, because, of course, — refugee children, because, of course, that— refugee children, because, of course, that learning - refugee children, because, of course, that learning and - course, that learning and education _ course, that learning and education was _ course, that learning and education was absolutelyj education was absolutely crucial— education was absolutely crucial if— education was absolutely crucial if we _ education was absolutely crucial if we were - education was absolutely crucial if we were ever i education was absolutely crucial if we were ever toj education was absolutely i crucial if we were ever to be able — crucial if we were ever to be able to _ crucial if we were ever to be able to this _ crucial if we were ever to be able to this moment - crucial if we were ever to be l able to this moment and have educated _ able to this moment and have educated syrians _ able to this moment and have educated syrians go _ able to this moment and have educated syrians go back- able to this moment and have educated syrians go back to l educated syrians go back to what — educated syrians go back to what was _ educated syrians go back to what was a _ educated syrians go back to what was a country - educated syrians go back to what was a country many i educated syrians go back to what was a country many ofj educated syrians go back to i what was a country many of us would've — what was a country many of us would've recognised _ what was a country many of us would've recognised in- what was a country many of us would've recognised in own . would've recognised in own community, _ would've recognised in own community, it— would've recognised in own community, it had - would've recognised in own community, it had a - would've recognised in own community, it had a strongj community, it had a strong economy, _ community, it had a strong economy, it— community, it had a strong economy, if it _ community, it had a strong economy, if it was - community, it had a strong economy, if it was an - community, it had a strong - economy, if it was an autocracy come _ economy, if it was an autocracy come i— economy, if it was an autocracy come i think— economy, if it was an autocracy come i think it's _ economy, if it was an autocracy come i think it's only— economy, if it was an autocracy come i think it's only going - economy, if it was an autocracy come i think it's only going to. come i think it's only going to be in — come i think it's only going to be in the _ come i think it's only going to be in the next _ come i think it's only going to be in the next month, - come i think it's only going to be in the next month, two- be in the next month, two months. _ be in the next month, two months, where _ be in the next month, two months, where you - be in the next month, two months, where you really| be in the next month, two. months, where you really get be in the next month, two- months, where you really get a sense _ months, where you really get a sense that _ months, where you really get a sense that it _ months, where you really get a sense that it is— months, where you really get a sense that it is able _ months, where you really get a sense that it is able to - months, where you really get a sense that it is able to come i sense that it is able to come together— sense that it is able to come together as _ sense that it is able to come together as a _ sense that it is able to come together as a country - sense that it is able to come together as a country and i together as a country and rebuild _ together as a country and rebuild its— together as a country and rebuild its future. - together as a country and rebuild its future. at - together as a country and rebuild its future. at that| rebuild its future. at that stage. _ rebuild its future. at that stage. the _ rebuild its future. at that stage, the wider- rebuild its future. at that - stage, the wider international committee _ stage, the wider international committee can— stage, the wider international committee can support - stage, the wider international committee can support that, i stage, the wider international. committee can support that, but i committee can support that, but i don't _ committee can support that, but idon't think— committee can support that, but idon't think it — committee can support that, but idon't think it can— committee can support that, but idon't think it can do— committee can support that, but i don't think it can do it - idon't think it can do it unless— i don't think it can do it unless there _ i don't think it can do it unless there is - i don't think it can do it unless there is some i i don't think it can do it - unless there is some semblance of stability — unless there is some semblance of stability there _ of stability there domestically. i of stability there domestically. of stability there domesticall. ., ., ., domestically. part of that availability _ domestically. part of that availability -- _ domestically. part of that availability -- that - domestically. part of that l availability -- that stability availability —— that stability will depend on a security system and the israelis we are told have had over 300

installations, military installations, military installations in the last 2a—a8 hours. they have destroyed the syrian navy, which was in port. i want you to listen to the israeli foreign ministerfirst, israeli foreign minister first, and israeli foreign ministerfirst, and then the qatari opposite number responding. let's have a listen. translation: together - with the prime minister i have instructed the idf to establish a sterile defence zone free of weapons and terrorist