it's an amazing moment. actually, first, we were so nervous, we couldn't believe it. like, maybe it's a dream, but actually... because it's been a nightmare for us for all these years. my counsel would be give syrians space to handle . this amazing transition. joining me tonight are anna gross, political correspondent at the financial times, and miles taylor, who served in the first trump administration. first, the latest headlines.

the father and stepmother of sara sharif, the ten—year—old girl who was found dead at herfamily home in woking, have been found guilty of murder. her uncle was convicted of causing or allowing a child's death. sentencing will take place next week. police say dozens of people are being investigated over the post office horizon it scandal. they include employees of the post office and fujitsu, as well as some members of the legal profession, but detectives say no trials are expected to get under way until 2027. a government source has told the bbc that thousands of civil service jobs are to be cut as the government finds "efficiency savings". the source said there was no central target, but some reports suggest the figure could be above 10,000. meta — the company which operates social media apps including facebook, whatsapp and instagram — has reported a technical issue which it says has affected their use. issues have been reported around the world. meta hasn't outlined the cause of the problem, but said it is working as quickly as possible to fix it.

we start the programme in syria, where shops are reopening and people are returning to work in the capital damascus three days after the fall of the assad regime. rebel forces say they've taken control of the oil—rich eastern city of deir ez—zur. a senior commander of the islamist group hayat tahrir al—sham says it captured the city after us—backed kurdish fighters withdrew. today, rebel fighters have broken into the tomb of the former president hafez al—assad, bashar�*s father. pictures show a coffin and parts of the mausoleum in the family's home town on fire. 0ur chief international correspondent lyse doucet has more from damascus. the night—time curfew here in damascus has been lifted, a sign that the new leadership believes that it is getting the situation under control, but these are still very handy time. very conflicting signals

coming from a new leadership. if you heard in the news, rebels are now being able to enter the muslim which is the burial place notjust of bashar al—assad poz my father also his mother and his brother. we were able to visit that mausoleum several years ago, took a long time to get permission because they held the place and such reference that they were very careful about who could go and visit. now, today, it is coming up visit. now, today, it is coming up in smoke. rebels were seen still fired up by the need, they believe, to hold those responsible for multiple war crimes. so there is continuing to beat reports of a summary executions and reports, too, there could even be a public execution in the square here in damascus. the united nations secretary—general, antonio guterres, has said the world is witnessing the reshaping of the middle east. speaking in south africa, he said there were signs of hope in syria with the end of what he called

the dictatorship after president assad was overthrown at the weekend. the un is totally committed to supporting a smooth transition of power with an inclusive political process in which the rights of all minorities will be fully respected and paving the way towards a united, sovereign syria with its territorial integrity fully re—established. i spoke to zeina kanawati, senior communications officer at women for women international, who hopes to return to syria soon from germany. she gave us her thoughts on the events of the past few days. what happened was although we have been working for _

this moment for the past ml years, but it was somehow a shock for us that it happened suddenly and very quickly. i and it happened by... it's not a chance - that it happened now. it was everything we have been doing for the past 14 years, - but also it happened without . any sense of accountability and justice that it's - going to take place. so this is a bit worrying. this is concerning. we don't see that we have achieved what we want to| achieve by the assad regime falling. - we still need more. we still need to see - justice and accountability taking its place. so optimism is not the right word at the moment, but i it is still something that we feel really, j like, really content about that - we don't have this dictatorship any more that has been over. half a century ruling syria. but we still want more - to happen, and of course we are scared, we are anxious and we

are happy at the same time. . and now our panel is with us and so this pick up on that, what is your best guess on where syria is an eight? the prevailing — where syria is an eight? the prevailing sense _ where syria is an eight? the prevailing sense i _ where syria is an eight? tue: prevailing sense i get where syria is an eight? tte: prevailing sense i get from where syria is an eight? t'te: prevailing sense i get from the footage i have seen in the reports i have been reading is a kind of tentative hope that this could be, there could be kind of a betterfuture in store. it's amazing scenes of, you know, celebration on the streets and people being reunited with their loved ones who had been imprisoned, but i think the truth is that there is a huge amount of uncertainty about what comes next. it's not exactly clear what hts has in

store. it is kind of a religious organisation that has links to al-qaeda, historical leaks to al-qaeda i should say. there are parts discover that arp particularly secular and the preventing feeling is there is hope this could be a much safer regime, but it is fundamentally much too early to tell. �* . ., , ., ~' fundamentally much too early to tell. �* . ., , ., ~ , tell. and what do you think is america's _ tell. and what do you think is america's attitude _ tell. and what do you think is america's attitude to - tell. and what do you think is america's attitude to syria? i america's attitude to syria? because we know antony blinken is on his way to address middle east to address the whole issue of what happens next but also we have donald trump me back into the white house saying syria is a mess and that the us should have nothing to do with it. ~ ~' , it. well, i think he will see exactly that. _ it. well, i think he will see exactly that. due - it. well, i think he will see exactly that. due to - it. well, i think he will see exactly that. due to the i exactly that. due to the shifting attitudes and you have it on_ shifting attitudes and you have it on a — shifting attitudes and you have it on a split screen right now. you _ it on a split screen right now. you see — it on a split screen right now. you see an _ it on a split screen right now. you see an administration in the biden_ you see an administration in the biden administration has been — the biden administration has been very focused on what american involvement should

look— american involvement should look like _ american involvement should look like in syria to try to moniior— look like in syria to try to monitor threats in the region and specific late america the past — and specific late america the past few_ and specific late america the past few years been most worried _ past few years been most worried about isis and militant islamist— worried about isis and militant islamist elements reconstituting in syria and using _ reconstituting in syria and using it _ reconstituting in syria and using it to plant offensive operations against the west and try to _ operations against the west and try to go — operations against the west and try to go after those organisations. to let the other day with— organisations. to let the other day with nearly 75 air strikes reported _ day with nearly 75 air strikes reported against isis positions in the — reported against isis positions in the country writer of the time — in the country writer of the time the _ in the country writer of the time the assad regime was toppled. but of the same time you have — toppled. but of the same time you have donald trump to me back_ you have donald trump to me back in— you have donald trump to me back in office and i will tell you — back in office and i will tell you from _ back in office and i will tell you from personal experience, donald — you from personal experience, donald trump did not want to be in syria — donald trump did not want to be in syria he _ donald trump did not want to be in syria. he did not want a single _ in syria. he did not want a single blue on the ground in syria. — single blue on the ground in syria, and right now according to public— syria, and right now according to public reports there are stitt— to public reports there are still several hundred us forces in the — still several hundred us forces in the country to keep those terrorist _ in the country to keep those terrorist organisations and chat _ terrorist organisations and chat. but donald trump one of them — chat. but donald trump one of them gone i remember sitting in them gone i remember sitting in the white — them gone i remember sitting in the white house chief of staff's _ the white house chief of staff's office the date in december 2018 when he tweeted that the — december 2018 when he tweeted that the united states was withdrawing from syria. at that point _ withdrawing from syria. at that point in — withdrawing from syria. at that point in time, we had more troops _ point in time, we had more troops in _ point in time, we had more troops in syria but there have been — troops in syria but there have been no — troops in syria but there have been no internal policy

processes on the question. donald _ processes on the question. donald trump was being told no and tired — donald trump was being told no and tired of it and he said enough— and tired of it and he said enoughis and tired of it and he said enough is enough i want to pull these _ enough is enough i want to pull these forces back. persuaded ultimately to keep folks there but i — ultimately to keep folks there but i think if you are looking at the — but i think if you are looking at the next few months, what to expect _ at the next few months, what to expect his — at the next few months, what to expect his trump comes in if you — expect his trump comes in if you probably think a really good — you probably think a really good hard look at that residual presence — good hard look at that residual presence and determine is that needed — presence and determine is that needed or not and i think there will be — needed or not and i think there will be advisers around him who say you — will be advisers around him who say you should keep some troop presence — say you should keep some troop presence there, wipe equipment we don't — presence there, wipe equipment we don't know what's going to happen— we don't know what's going to happen next and the concern is syria _ happen next and the concern is syria becoming a vacuum that those — syria becoming a vacuum that those rebels, the islamist militants could take over and used — militants could take over and used to— militants could take over and used to plan terrorist attacks. the truth _ used to plan terrorist attacks. the truth is that syria's crucial to the middle east in the future of the middle east. absolutely, and i think that the concern that i'm hearing here in the uk and from discussions as well with us policymakers is that there is this very serious concern about isis organisations and other

terror groups that there could be still a presence in syria and could rise up during this kind of period, this vacuum period. and you have seen this is a ron for the time being taking out its citizens from the country, a ron, but the truth is that during this period where i think countries all around the world and all around the west are sorting to figure out what their stance is full so this is a period in which ran and others could sort of regroup and build, a counteroffensive. tn of regroup and build, a counteroffensive.- of regroup and build, a counteroffensive. in a quick question — counteroffensive. in a quick question to _ counteroffensive. in a quick question to you _ counteroffensive. in a quick question to you again - counteroffensive. in a quick question to you again about counteroffensive. in a quick . question to you again about us policy on this and particularly with dealing with hayat tahrir al—sham, this group that has been designated a terrorist outfit by the us, former links with al-qaeda and so on but does that mean the us cannot have any dealings with it, the

other western democracies cannot have any dealings with it? . , , , cannot have any dealings with it? . , , ., it? unnecessarily. i up for recent examples, - it? unnecessarily. i up for recent examples, look- it? unnecessarily. i up for recent examples, look at| it? unnecessarily. i up for i recent examples, look at us dealings _ recent examples, look at us dealings with the time when the last administration of donald trump — last administration of donald trump when they're looking at putting — trump when they're looking at pulling out of afghanistan, he had even _ pulling out of afghanistan, he had even contemplated having taliban — had even contemplated having taliban leaders coming to me at camp— taliban leaders coming to me at camp david in the us and again these _ camp david in the us and again these are — camp david in the us and again these are an organisation who harboured the terrorists who ptotted — harboured the terrorists who plotted nephew to the 9/11 attack _ plotted nephew to the 9/11 attack. that will be an extraordinary shift in 20 years to the — extraordinary shift in 20 years to the become enemy number one of the _ to the become enemy number one of the us— to the become enemy number one of the us to being invited to camp— of the us to being invited to camp david for her to that standpoint it's possible he was the policymakers want to engage these _ the policymakers want to engage these groups, even wanted to be designated as terrorist organisations, but i think the bigger— organisations, but i think the bigger thing to watch here is will any— bigger thing to watch here is will any of those organisations be able — will any of those organisations be able to lay a legitimate claim _ be able to lay a legitimate claim to _ be able to lay a legitimate claim to being able to control elements of territory to keep them — elements of territory to keep them from becoming lawless safe

havens _ them from becoming lawless safe havens for other extremists that — havens for other extremists that might be planning transnational attacks or other acts— transnational attacks or other acts of— transnational attacks or other acts of violence? and i'm not sure — acts of violence? and i'm not sure they— acts of violence? and i'm not sure they can make those premises or anyone can make those — premises or anyone can make those premises at this point and — those premises at this point and that's what we are going to be watching. we are member ten years— be watching. we are member ten years ago— be watching. we are member ten years ago how quickly isis rose in iraq — years ago how quickly isis rose in had and _ years ago how quickly isis rose in iraq and is syria, and in a matterof— in iraq and is syria, and in a matter of weeks you had an organisation that lay claim to the size — organisation that lay claim to the size of a large us day and recruited _ the size of a large us day and recruited nearly 40,000 foreign fighters — recruited nearly 40,000 foreign fighters from around the world to come — fighters from around the world to come join and build what they— to come join and build what they had _ to come join and build what they had thought at the time was a — they had thought at the time was a new caliphate. so i'm not saying — was a new caliphate. so i'm not saying that's going to happen this time but that's what western security officials are watching very closely is whether that security vacuum coutd — whether that security vacuum could result in similar activity. could result in similar activity-— could result in similar activi . . , . activity. thanks very much indeed. let's talk about one of the other implications of the syria crisis, which is immigration. during the long and brutal years of the assad regime,

millions of syrians fled the country, many arriving in europe. the uk and other european nations have now suspended asylum applications from syrians. today, the uk opposition leader kemi badenoch said events in syria now could increase the number of migrants arriving in britain in small boats, and, more generally, she attacked the prime minister sir keir starmer�*s record on immigration. she asked why cutting it was not one of the labour government's milestones announced by sir keir in a speech last week. for his part, the prime minister again accused the tories of having had what he called an "open borders policy" when they were in power. let's have a listen. he has relaunched yet. again many new targets, six milestones, five missions, but why was cutting _ immigration not a priority? mr speaker, i'm glad she now wants talk about immigration. last week, she said she didn't, and for good reason. because the previous government presided over record high levels of immigration, with figures just a few weeks ago, nearlya million

on net migration. that is unprecedented. a one—nation experiment in open borders under the last government. let's take a look at the figures. official figures show that more than 20,000 people have crossed the english channel in small boats since labour took office injuly. the government says it will attempt to reduce crossings by taking action against the gangs that smuggle people into the uk. last year, under the conservative government, net migration hit a record high of more than 906,000, and immigration has been cited as a factor driving some recent defections from the tories to nigel farage's reform uk party. back to our panel then. immigration so important as a political issue both in the us and uk. isuppose political issue both in the us

and uk. i suppose the syrian crisis in fact over the years has highlighted that. absolutely. and i was actually at that speech that starmer gave last week when he set out the targets for government, the milestones, and none of them including any target on migration. and 70 or 80% of the questions he got from the audience and from the media were about why it was that he had not included a target for migration, and a lot of analysts say that that was a big misstep and it leaves a vacuum there for parties like reform uk to step in and say that the public care about this and it's something that consistently ranks in the top three things that the public are most concerned about. and they're saying here is evidence right now that this is