tv Nadia Murad BBC News December 14, 2024 2:30am-3:00am GMT
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speaking in arabic she screams nadia murad is a nobel peace prize winner, a campaigner, and a survivor of the yazidi genocide. it's been ten years since she was taken captive by the islamic state in iraq and thousands of her people were massacred. but since she's escaped, she's been campaigning relentlessly for victims of war, lobbying governments, top politicians, and even hollywood celebrities. so, we've come to norway, home of the nobel institute, to speak to nadia about her work, fighting forjustice for the yazidi people, and trying to eliminate sexual violence in war. hi. nice to meet you. so nice to meet you. thank you so much. indistinct chatter nadia murad, thank you for speaking to 100 women.
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we're sitting here in the nobel institute, in oslo, because you are a nobel peace prize winner. you won the award in 2018 jointly for your work advocating for survivors of sexual abuse during conflict. what did that award mean to you? before 2014, i was not aware of this award. i didn't know that there was something like this that even existed. you know, it was an important recognition, but i didn't start telling my story for an award, orfor being, you know, recognised by, you know, powerful committees like this one. i started to share my story with the world because of what happened
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to me and my community, and my neighbours and family, and my country. in your nobel peace prize acceptance speech, you said you hoped that it would mark "the beginning of a new era, "when peace is the priority and the world can collectively "begin to define a new road map to protect women, "children, and minorities from persecution". how do you feel about those words now, six years on? ifeel the same. i say the same words over and over again. and i know a lot is going on in the world, and i know these are dangerous times, and there are more conflicts, unfortunately, in my region, and in other parts of the world. but we have to keep reminding them with these words, we have to go back and knock on their doors, especially world leaders, over and over again to remind them of their responsibilities,
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and these international institutions who were meant to protect the most vulnerable. but they have been absent in most of these conflicts, especially in the middle east. so many people around the world, including myself, feel that these institutions are driven by politics, rather than justice. gunfire in 2014, the islamic state took over northern iraq and persecuted any community that refused to convert to its extremist idea of islam. but they saved a particular brand of cruelty and hate for the yazidi religion and people. when they attacked nadia's village, they murdered her mother, six of her brothers, and many more men in her family. they took younger women and children captive. the boys were indoctrinated into isis, while the women and girls were used as sex slaves, sold from man to man, raped and gang—raped repeatedly. after three months, nadia escaped. but so many others didn't. more than 200,000 people are still displaced, and there are 3,000 women and children still missing. do you think enough
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is being done to find them? i think nothing was done to find them. nothing was done until isis made the decision to murder all the men, including six of my brothers, my nephew, and dozens of my cousins, and the elderly women, including my mother. and then, they enslaved more than 6,500 women and children into sexual slavery. most of us who survived were able to just run away and go ask for help. but there was never, you know, a proper team from the iraqi government, or the un, or the international community to look for them. and that is why, ten years later, close to 3,000 of them are still missing, including my nephew, my niece, my sister—in—law,
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my cousin and her daughter, my best friends, and neighbours, people that i grew up with. so, yeah, they were... the world failed them. the islamic state killed more than 3,000 yazidis and captured 6,000 others. you were one of them. and yet, in the international courts, no—one has been held to account for any of these war crimes. 0nly germany has successfully convicted any of these criminals. why do you think there has been so little justice? well, i think that's a question that i ask them all the time. with my friend amal clooney, we worked on creating a un team called unitad, where unitad is, you know, their mandate was to collect evidence of isis crimes in all over iraq. unitad was there for years, they collected evidence, testimonies, documentations, and we know, yes, isis was... a lot of iraqisjoined isis, our neighbours and a lot of people from the region.
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but there were also thousands of foreigners who came from europe, from other parts of the world and joined isis, and believed in their ideology. and a lot of them, you know, after isis was defeated, men and women were able to come back to their countries of origin. so, it's not about evidence, it's just a lack of political will. and that process is over now, is it? the process right now, it's in the hands of the iraqi authorities. so, unitad has nothing to do with it. but then, iraq, it's another story. you know, they take their time and they don't do it properly. they don't have a plan on when all these remains will be identified and brought back. why is justice so important?
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what people don't know about isis and like—minded groups is that they don't care about being killed, but they are so scared of facing the girls and... ..women and girls in the courtroom. you can't defeat this ideology with weapons. they will always come back with a different name if we don't hold them accountable in front of the whole world. given that we're seeing conflict again in the middle east, are you worried about a resurgence in the kind of ideology that brought the islamic state about? no. as someone from the region, and as someone who has gone through so much in war, and lost family and friends, it's just heartbreaking to see all the suffering across the middle east. and i was in iraq two months ago, and i could feel the burden of the war in gaza on iraqis and everyone there. i know our region has gone through so much, and they deserve peace. i also worry that, you know, isis and other groups will take
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advantage of this war, because it was militarily defeated, but not the ideology. we know that a lot of them are still out there, and they got away with, you know, impunity. so, i am worried that they will take advantage of this war in the region. so, the people that you met in iraq are terrified of the war spreading. i think that is what a lot of people don't understand about the middle east is that, you know, when there is war in one country, the whole region is... it has an impact on the whole region and, in fact, on it. we all share the same fear that more and more groups will take advantage of it, and then it
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will be hard to stop it. yeah. you started telling your story almost as soon as you escaped, and you refused... you very clearly refuse to feel the shame that the islamic state wanted you to feel, and that the perpetrators wanted you to feel. was that a conscious choice at the time? i think the shame and stigma that is... ..that was attached to being raped, it wasn'tjust by isis, but also the people that i was, like, living with, the country, the society. it was something that so many people advised me not to tell. i met survivors who were with me in captivity, who i know were sexually abused and, after they escaped, they would say they were only slaves and, like, prisoners, and nothing happened to them. and then, years later, they started to tell their story of being abused.
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i think the second i was free and i made it to safety, i felt feel responsible. i felt some sort of guilt of, like, surviving while my younger nieces were, you know, and friends and neighbours were still in there. so, i took my survival as a responsibility to share my story, so that people know what was really happening under isis control. and not only did you tell it, you told it again and again — that must have been intensely difficult. a lot of people treated me as just a story, as a victim, even though i've never called myself as a victim, because i feel like i survived one of the most dangerous groups in recent history, and i had a story but... to share, yes, something happened to me. but i'm more than just a story.
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this has become a huge part of your work, advocating for the survivors of sexual crimes in conflict. why is it important to treat these survivors and the effects of these crimes uniquely and differently? i think it's so important to treat survivors with dignity. and it is important to know that, before what happened to us, we were just people with a lot of, you know, dreams, and we had families, and we had life. and for me, i always thought i was born to be a make—up artist. i loved... you know, even though i didn't know much about, you know, who was making this make—up and the products we had
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— and we had little, you know, money to get a foundation or a lipstick — but i always loved inviting, you know, women in the village, er, afternoons to do their eyebrows, her make—up. and i feel like one day, i will be the first woman to open a beauty salon in the village. but i think, after what happened to me, people didn't know who i was before, what i liked, and how my life was different, and how i was loved by my family and raised by a strong single mother. all of that is not seen the second, you know, you became a survivor of rape. i think what people don't know about sexual violence, you know, and rape, is that it is something that stays, you know, long after the war is over. it. . . it lasts forever and lives in your body, in your mind, and in your bones. it's hard to fully
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recoverfrom it. i feel like, by sharing this story, i have felt that, even though it was so difficult, it helped me better than my, you know, my sisters, on, like, staying silent. i feel like that helped a little bit of, like, just not taking the blame. but as she shared her story, nadia realised just how little the authorities and the media understood about sexual violence. each time she told it, she felt the trauma of these crimes again and again. she's been campaigning for many years, alongside well—known figures like amal clooney, to change how survivors are treated. and she's created the murad code — a guide for anyone dealing with survivors of sexual violence, so that they respect their rights and empower them to tell their story in their own way. the murad code is all about what survivors want to share, and making sure that, after they share their story, they know what, you know, what happened to their testimonies.
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can we stop these horrific crimes from happening? and is there more that international institutions or governments can do to stop sexual violence? well, first, we have to acknowledge it as a war crime. we have to hold perpetrators accountable. we have to respect survivors and listen to them. but at the same time, we have to work, you know, on stronger protections of women and girls. i mean, look at what's happening right now in afghanistan. maybe women are not being raped. it was last year, the taliban closed every single beauty salon. women are prevented to just go and meet another woman in a beauty salon — and i talk about beauty salons because i know the importance of having a space for women
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where they could just be together. and then, in sudan, where, you know, so many have been raped and killed. and in ukraine, when i was there last year, ijust heard stories of people like me, who have been raped and feel embarrassed to share their stories, not having enough support. and if we can act early on to protect women and girls, that is the best way. but we have to empower them before, you know, in times of peace, we have to empower them, to listen to them, and that's how we can prevent it. you've had incredible success in the work you've done in ukraine — can you tell us about that? when dr denis mukwege and i won the nobel, and after that, we got to know each other more, we wanted to do something for all survivors. and that was, when we were talking to survivors, a lot of them, they are either like, you know, displaced
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or don't have somewhere to go, some of them are rejected by their families because of what happened to them. so, reparations are so important for these women and girls, because they can feel independent. and that's where we founded the global survivors fund, that is providing interim reparations to survivors in congo, colombia, ukraine, iraq, and many other places. and at the same time, we advocate for the governments in these countries to pass their own reparation law and make it a permanent thing to support survivors. so, when i was in ukraine, so, when i was in ukraine, i gave a message, a letter i gave a message, a letter to the first lady to give it to the first lady to give it to her husband, to pass to her husband, to pass a survivors law in ukraine. a survivors law in ukraine. and they have passed a law, and they have passed a law, and they are working on it. and they are working on it. you know, when i survived, you know, when i survived, i didn't know any other women i didn't know any other women that went through the same responsibility. that went through the same thing, and i wish, you know, thing, and i wish, you know, someone could have told me someone could have told me back then that i was, back then that i was, you know, not alone. you know, not alone. and that is what i'm trying and that is what i'm trying to give other survivors, to give other survivors, that they're not alone, that they're not alone, and the burden of our and the burden of our experiences are not experiences are not only ours to bear, only ours to bear, but it's everyone�*s but it's everyone�*s
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responsibility. mm. do you mind if we talk a bit about your childhood, and what was it about growing up in kocho that made you who you are? when i was about three or four months, my parents separated, but we were very close to my dad's house, and my mum decided to raise all 11 of us. we were 11 siblings, eight brothers and three sisters.
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it sounds like your mum was a really inspirationalfigure. my mum was a very strong single mother who not only raised her own 11 children, but also my dad's children, er, after his first wife died of cancer. and so, she took care of so many children, and she was always a happy person. she, you know, she taught me the power of compassion in the face of systemic marginalisation. and i feel like all these experiences shaped me profoundly. applause nadia's mother could never have imagined this. that her youngest — and the only one of her children that, through her hard work, she managed to put through high school — would one day stand amongst the most celebrated
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people in history. where were you when you found out? i was at the harvard university. my husband and i, we were there. i had an event the day before they announced the nobel. and i remember, because of the time difference, it was so early when they called us. so, they let you know early in the morning, and then, it must have been a cascade of calls after that. i wasn't yet invited to my own country to tell my story, so that was the first time i received a phone call from the iraqi president, and then, you know, calls after calls, and then, you know, even malala called me, and she was like, "i know it's... you know, you could get emotional, "but you'll get through it." do you think it still has value, you know, in this very turbulent, conflict—filled world? i think that is, you know, not our responsibility alone, because this is a recognition.
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it doesn't mean that we have the magic to make peace. we have to work and continue to do the work. i think it has a value because, if we stop... ..if we stop believing that peace is possible, if we stop believing to recognise the so many people who dedicate their lives to peace, then how can we get there and make peace? you think of all these people who work so hard for peace. yeah. so, the theme this year for bbc�*s 100 women series is resilience. we speak to women around the world who've gone through trauma or adversity, and survived, and supported other people to do the same. what does resilience mean to you? i think for me, resilience means... well, first, you have to stand up for yourself and for your own rights, so that you can defend the rights of other women and girls. so many people tried,
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at the very beginning, to make me as that perfect victim — and i refused, because i knew i could be so much more. when so many people saw my story of rape and abuse, i saw it as a story of resilience and power, and i knew i could use it for good. do you still dream of that beauty parlour that you once wanted to open? i do. you know, isis, at the very beginning, forced all the girls to wear make—up for them. and, even going through that, i feel like they didn't kill the love for beauty inside me. and i didn't wear make—up for a while after i survived. but then, mal introduced me to charlotte tilbury, which is, you know, she is one of my role models.
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she is amazing. and i was in london for, like, ten days in one of her stores, and i was learning make—up, and they were teaching me, her team, about everything, and that was one of my favourite things that i have done in the past ten years. for many other women in these countries and small villages, it is more than that. it's about being independent, being, you know, being able to provide for their families. and i think, to be honest, that was the reason the taliban closed those beauty salons. they know that women come together in those spaces. they may come up with big ideas and change, and, you know, be able to, like, learn about how they can take back, you know, their rights and freedom. i know you spoke earlier about this feeling like a dangerous time. the un released a report recently saying that the number of women killed in conflict this year has doubled, and that the number of incidents of sexual violence
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that they were able to verify had increased by 50%. do you think things are getting worse? i think their first report said, the un first report said that sexual violence in conflict has gone from bad to worse. it tells you a lot about how we have failed them over and overagain, and how we're not doing enough. and last month, when i was in kosovo, more than two decades ago, close to 20,000 women and children were sexually abused during the last war in kosovo. and i went to a women's centre where survivors came to share their stories, but not publicly. and so far, only two women have spoken publicly about their experiences, even though more and more reports are showing how sexual violence is being used
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as a weapon of war. it is still so stigmatising for many to come forward and publicly share their stories. how does it make you feel about your work? i know my work is not over. i know it's, especially in these times, it's not easier. it makes me angry to know that so many more women are going through the same experiences. and...| just know that we can't stop. if i stop sharing my story, if i stopped advocating, it will only get worse. do you feel like your life is yours, or is it...? have you given it over to this work, this mission? i think i've sacrificed so much, but i have no regrets. those are notjust numbers, they are human beings with families and dreams, and hopes. so, i don't have any regrets about giving so much to this cause.
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nadia murad, thank you for speaking to bbc�*s 100 women. thank you so much. for most of the day, friday, for many of you will have been a cloudy, rather grey, damp kind of day with some drizzle around, a bit of mist. but towards the end of friday, we started to get some sunnier breaks coming into the highlands of scotland — bit of sunshine on the horizon.
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those brighter skies to be found behind this cold front which, at the moment, is pushing its way southwards. it will eventually bring much sunnier weather, at least for a time, to all parts of the uk. now, right now, we've still got extensive cloud across england and wales, still with those misty conditions, bit of hill fog and quite extensive drizzle but the clearer air is continuing to work down across northern areas. for many of us, saturday morning starting off on a frost—free note, but cold. but there will be some frost patches into scotland. here's your saturday morning, then. starting on a cloudy note for southern england and east anglia, still with some drizzle and mist. that clears through as our cold front finally pushes southwards, followed by sunshine for a time. however, into the afternoon, we'll see things cloud over once again for scotland and northern ireland with a bit
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of rain pushing in here. it will eventually turn quite mild — 11 in stornoway — whereas eastern scotland, eastern england staying on the chilly side — temperatures 6—8 degrees. saturday night, then, one of those nights where temperatures will actually rise through the night as milder southwesterly winds start to blow in and so, they will bring a completely different kind of weather feel for the second half of the weekend. it's going to be a much milder day. there will be a lot of cloud around at times, a few breaks in the cloud, a bit of hazy sunshine here and there but for the highlands of scotland, we start to see a band of heavy and persistent rain move in. now, it will be a much milder day than we've been used to pretty much all week — temperatures around 12 or 13 degrees celsius. and this mild weather continues into monday, again with the extensive cloud around, just a few breaks in the cloud, bit of hazy sunshine for some. whereas for the highlands, we've got more rain in the forecast, and that rain actually continues into tuesday. we'll need to be watchful of that — there could be some localised surface water flooding building in early next week due to that persistent rain. so, a mild first half to the week but often quite cloudy with some patches of rain coming and going. really, from the second half of the week and into the following weekend, we see
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donald trump says "syria is not our fight". we examine what impact his new administration might have on the region. hello, i'm carl nasman. welcome to this special half—hour programme on syria. we'll look at the experiences of people in the country and ask what the fall of bashar al—assad's government means for the middle east. and we'll consider what the return of donald trump to the white house means for a syria witnessing unprecedented change. it's been an extraordinary — and, until last weekend unthinkable — day of celebrations across syria to mark the downfall of the former president bashar al—assad and the end of more than 50 years of his family's grip on the country. this was the scene in homs while this was the scene in damascus.
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